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A question for atheists
Posted by rfburnhertz • 12/05/08 • Subscribe to this Discussion [RSS] • Report This Topic
Topics: atheism, christianity, God, religion
It is said that Bertrand Russell was asked,
What if when you die you stand before the living God and he looks you in the eye and asks, "why did you not believe in me", what will you say to Him?
his reply was said to be,
I would stand before Him and say, you did not give me enough evidence to believe in you.
I am just curious, as individual atheists what is it you would say if you were to die and find yourself standing before the God that created you.
I've only posted a few discussions in BC, but enough to learn that some think when I ask a question I am looking for a fight or argument... so let me just be clear that I am ONLY asking a question.
User Comments
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Is this a "for the sake of the argument" thing? Are we supposed to assume there is a god to stand before, or an afterlife or any of that?
If so, I would just say, "Don't like my choices? You shouldn't have let me make them, then. Bye!"
But even that wouldn't happen. If there's that whole pearly gates get judged by St. Peter thing, I would just walk away and not bother.-
Yes, a for the sake of argument.
:-) No Saint Peter checking for hand stamps at the door I'm afraid.
Thanks for the answer. -
I was thinking more along the lines of a Beavis and Butthead episode where this old man with a beard holds a giant book of everything you've ever done wrong in your life.
If that's the case, I already know the answer. My time would be better spent wandering around the afterlife, admiring the landscape, and making my own paradise. -
//Yes, for the sake of argument//
My 2005 blog post has the following two questions which are relevant here:
1. who(X) CREATED god? (and who created that X and so on...)
2. whether there was a REAL NEED to create human beings?
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I like stuff like this, academic..for the sake of argument
Now supposing the G-man did exist it may happen something like this:
If God were to ask that question of me, I would only reply to him with a question of my own and then quietly accept my fate.
"Why do you ask a question you already know the answer to?"-
Game, set and match! -
Okay. That's pretty good, quick and cut.
For you I'll add, what if you were obliged to answer the question?
To provide an actual reason for not believing.
What would your answer be? -
I suppose if I had to provide an actual reason, it would be the lack of God. In history, in humanity, in trying times, and in existance. I suppose if God was to stand before me, I'd have quite a few more questions, but then, if he was God (we are talking about the Christian God, right?) he would already know what I was thinking and going to say.
But I suppose my reasoning is the lack of God. I don't really think 'is there a greater being' or what happens to me after I die. I've never felt like there was any great being in the sky manipulating the movements of mankind or grandfatherly figure watching over the plight of humanity in disdain.
This discussion sort of puts me in the mind of a Rush song from their new album. "Faithless"
By the way, who took the picture of your child?
Whoever did, it was a nice photo. -
Okay, that one I got.
'That one', meaning your reply back.
I had thought this would show below that, but it did not. -
Sorry if it came out a little cryptic. It was not a hateful or a rude thing either. I mean, beyond the lack of empyrical evidence (which I was trying to point out), that was the first thing that came to mind if God presented himself to me.
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Not at all.
I thought I knew what you meant but wasn't sure.
thanks -
My pleasure. I appreciate your maturity on the subject and respect you for it.
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@ crisro - thinking about your words,
what about the HOLY SPIRIT? it/she/he is supposed to be the speeking organ of god...I´ve heard that voice some times this year - e.g. i woke up one morning and heard a voice telling me: he is not guilty. joyce meyer says, god sends little prompts to us :-) like this. i could also say i´ve heard myself, listend to my intuition. what do you think?
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your quote:
But I suppose my reasoning is the lack of God. I don't really think 'is there a greater being' or what happens to me after I die. I've never felt like there was any great being in the sky manipulating the movements of mankind or grandfatherly figure watching over the plight of humanity in disdain. -
You should probably see someone if you're hearing voices...and I don't mean a priest... -
Holy Spirit? I'm unfamiliar. Is that the God incarnation created by St. Peter?
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I'd say 'I did believe in you, but I thought you were a woman.'
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Remember we are assuming, again for the sake of argument, that God exists.
You're standing before him, it would be a little hard to answer that you did not believe because He did not exist.
Assuming that by the 'lack of God' you do in fact mean He does not exist.
That you are standing before Him would tell you He does exist, He would then want to know why, previous to standing before Him, you did not believe.
One of my daughters took the picture of him.
She's a shutter bug and has taken some of the coolest, and strangest pictures I've ever seen. -
Well, if he asks me why didn't I believe in him, what else do I tell him.
I'll try rewording what I say, because I realize it came out as jibberish.
"I didn't believe in you because I saw nothing divine in this world. The only 'divinity' I saw were human attributes, love, compassion, selfless acts of kindness. You have done nothing but help cause great divide in the world and it only grows worse. Yet you give us no discernable sign. Men and Women look to science for the answer, but again there you simply gave no discernable answer, you would not answer those who truly seeked. Yet, those that seek you for fear of Hell or those that sake you for fear of retribution, which nearly all have been learned to do?
A God that does nothing, offering salvation for his self-righteous praise and belief in him while his flock slaughters itself. A God that instead of weighing the choices and tribulations a man goes through, weighs a mans desperation to seek the divine for fear of unearthly retribution. A God, untill now, I couldn't believe would exist." -
Well, it would. There are still folks who don't believe in evolution and all the evidence is there.
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answer:
If I am one of your creations then it's in my creation to doubt you, that's just the way it is... you made me this way.
But don't feel too bad, you've got a whole ton of followers down there -doing all kinds of weird stuff who some of them are probably a bigger problem than me for not believing in you. BTW Let me know if you need any help?-
@avante:
very very cool answer :-) wow.
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Isn't the guy all-knowing? Shouldn't he already have the answer to that question?-
He would know the answer, but that is not the point.
This, as pointed out earlier, is a for the sake of argument question.
No different I suppose than my asking you why you don't believe in God, except for the fact that I am not God, much different I would suppose answering God directly than answering myself or another. -
Yes, and as in Noah's day you will all know who he is. -
Sometimes God may ask such a question not for his sake but for you to have something to think about.
Dan
www.smokeasalmon.com
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This is an interesting discussion. I'm a Christian, not an atheist, so I obviously can't answer the question. But it is truly refreshing to hear the answers to this question in a non-argumentative/confrontational way.
rfburnhertz - thanks for posting this. I think you've truly added to the dialogue. -
I would say that I didn't believe in your because of all the idiot whackos that you had spewing and perverting what you allegedly mean.-
If you truly want to know the truth all you have to do is ask for it and he will make sure that you receive the truth.
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I ask him everyday why the hell you were born and I haven't heard an answer yet. Don't you have a middle school to be scoping out or something?
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You have beat me to the best ones.
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ok pheonix that was the funniest thing I read all day
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I am not an atheist, but I guess I would ask why he/she never felt it necessary to reveal themself to me and do they feel the path they chose for me was the correct one. -
i CANNOT assume for the sake of argument that god exists. period.
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Well, if I tone down my temper I'd end up on the 2nd circle of hell at the furthest. That's not too bad. Must be some cool bands there.
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I find sharing time with Atheist's is pretty cool. And across the board your comments are pretty streight forward and honest. As with all discussions, a few kids gotta jump in with comments without thought or content. but an honest comment deserves a like answer. The fact is God is very real. While I'll agree He's hard to find among all of man's new idea's and the many "religion's out there. He's well worth the effort to search for. Fella's n Gals be honest with yourselves as this will end as being theee most important decision in your short life. If you will spend as much time searching for the truth as you spend putting him down you will know for sure, sincerely. When I finally found Him I was so Excited. Because I wanted to share this great news with everyone. In the midst of all the junk out there is an awesome God. And when you find him , all the "stuff"" all the questions make sense. With great respect for your opinions and your stand don't throw away the best thing that could happen to you because you cant find him. its as simple as hitting your knees and asking a Holy God to reveal himself,,,,,,,,,,,,,Gods very best to all of you Al-
Amen
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I would say 2 things,
1-(As you stated)You gave me no proof
2-If you wanted me to believe in you (God), and follow your teachings (The Bible) then maybe you should have checked the book for GLARING errors.
Just one of MANY examples that pushed me away from religion (My family is Christian):
First people on Earth were Adam & Eve, they had two children, Kane & Able. Kane killed Able and was sent out where he married and had kids. Where did these people come from if they were the first 4 people on the planet? and lets give then the benefit of the doubt and say there were other people, isn't that incest? Are they not related?
this is just one of MANY errors that I just can't get over, to many mistakes.
Last comment,
Why would I want to follow ANY religion that has caused more death over our history than it has saved?
Spanish Inquisition, The Crusades, Catholic/Protestant conflict, Muslim/Jewish Fighting. Too much Death caused by religion for my taste thanks!!-
Okay, I wanted to leave this simply to the answers and see what replies were given. But this one is simple and the answer is right there if you read. No error what so ever and just further evidence that some people reject some things with out given full investigation and a fair evaluation.
I've done the same with various things in my life, we all have those things that we haven't given a fair shake and pretend as though we have.
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My honest opinion:
I have a problem with the concenpt of "one god, one ruler". Who is he ,if he does exist, to tell anyone they must worship him.
You might answer: "he created you". If he would give me real evidence that he did infact create me, I would give him all my respect. Unfortunately a book written by people just like us does not serve as evidence.
And I agree with flyfishfanatic. How can so much pain and death be the result of something good, aka believing in christ/god/allah/adonai/jehovah and so forth.. -
God Made no mistakes. He gave us a Book to follow. It took me 30 yrs to get this. follow the book and things run much smoother,,lol He said there would be wars and rumors of wars . that Man would destroy Himself for greed. John Hagee is a great preacher and bible follower. Even the Iran/Iraq Wars are talked about in Revelation, and very soon you will see the end as greedy Leaders reach for the ability to bomb and kill. Abe lincolns speeches echo the need to ask Gods forgiveness to avoid His judgement on America for mans greed. And today you cant help but see that the moral fabric is torn in society, economically, we are close to ruin once a country in lead.
God did none of this!!~ -
yu got me so fired up i forgot where I was. john Hagee has a new book out explaining iran, Iraq palistine,Russia, etc and how it all plays out in the final battle to Armageddon and the referances to Revelation and end times events. for 10 bucks at a walmart you can get a clear picture of whats about to happen. its very possable that we will be the generation that will not doubt Who Jesus Christ really is. Al
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I would say "Not only did you not provide the evidence, you actually provided evidence to the contrary..."
...then I would shout at him for the rest of eternity for all the unnecessary pain and suffering he allowed/caused... -
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Well, first I'd say:
"Oh, crap."
Then I'd say:
"I'll go to the Hell elevator, am I expected, or do I need a pass?"
No, seriously, I'm not atheist - but I don't believe in a Christian God, so I'd say:
"I believed in something, but you weren't it. Sorry." -
SIUIL,,, hold that thought, you'll get your chance,,,,,,,,,
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Don't I go to hell for not believing?
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Only if you waste your time trying to get into heaven. My question is, "What happens if you wander off and tell St. Peter to shove it?"
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Maybe it's like going off track in MarioKart...
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I'd say: you gave me a brain that could think logically and there was no real evidence you existed. You should have shown me a little evidence, dude!
Now... where are all the virgins I'm supposed to get?-
Sat... and he/she'd say... you shouldn't have believed everything you heard... there are no virgins.
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"I thought you'd be taller." -
I would expect an all-knowing god to already know the answer of course. -
''Because you didn't show up in enough Blog Catalog discussions. Three more and I was there. So close.''
~JD -
I did not believe in you because there was no evidence that you existed. I felt it would be rather disrespectful and insulting to you if you did happen to exist and then for me to not use the brain, logic, and reason, you gave me. I felt it would be quite unflattering to you to believe in you when there was absolutely no proof you existed. I knew that If I were wrong, you would already know why, and would understand and expected it to be the norm. It would after all be part of your grand plan. And of course you know all this already.
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@morgantij:
again, you lead many to point zero :-) wonderful summ up.
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I would say "Did someone drop some acid into my Coke Zero? I seem to be hallucinating..."
I would say that there was nothing to indicate the existence of any god(s) in the world I inhabited, that countless civilisations besides mine had invented god(s) that we disdained for lack of proof of their existence and therefore relegated to the status of myth, and that there was nothing present in our lives to differentiate the mythological belief systems from the Judeo/Christian systems. And, given the Judeo/Christian system emulated the mythical systems and in some places actually duplicated them wholesale, there was nothing inherent in the system to indicate it was not also a myth.
Then I would go into a long, looooong diatribe against his criminal neglect of us.-
From Coke Zero to Coke Hero.
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Great reply SweetViolet :-)
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Is it written somewhere that God is a man... and for that matter... whos God am I faced with. God, Alah, Zues, Appolo, Buddah, a Eagles Spirit, Confucius ect.... and am i in trouble if i was believing in the wrong one?
Is it not enough to be a good person, and get judged fairly by the good that you do on your time on earth -
Although I'm not an atheist, I'll answer this anyway, supposing that the Christian God would be standing in front of me. I would go:
"I really didn't think you would be that unfair and illogical. That made me not WANT TO believe in you." -
A lot of people are imagining the God they'll meet to be that white haired old gentleman, but I would imagine it'll be exactly like meeting Jesus in person. I wouldn't imagine he would need to ask you a question, given that he already knows the answer; all that would be needed would be a look. And it's unlikely he would ask, "Why did you not believe in me?"
But as your eyes meet (imagine looking directly into the eyes of the Lord Jesus, do you think you'll be able to stare him out?), as your eyes meet, the questions will be there, you can read them in his eyes.
When I was poor and hungry, did you feed me? When I was naked and homeless, did you clothe and shelter me? When I was in prison, did you come to visit me?
And yes of course he already knew the answers to those. But then, you knew also what the questions would be, didn't you? -
i hear that im non religious but non spiritual. i do knock people for beliefs but the athiest cloud of people is diverse and they arent just anti whatever or nilists...a higher power might exist but the establishment is what repells me away. patriarchy, subjugation of women, enslaving folks, colonialism, and genocide are some of the biproducts of religion so im athiest because i see what 'religion' and 'belief' does not to mention there is not a single strand of evidence for it albeit the theoretical work of philosophers and scientists both fields which are like their own religions -
as an aetheist and can tell you with certainty.
i'd say, "JESUS H. CHRIST! You fooled me ya devil!"
and then we'd have a big old laugh and let bygones be bygones because that's what she'd do, and i'd be let in on general principles.
So my question to you is: what aren't you gonna say when you die and nothing's there?
come on fair is fair!-
What would I NOT say if nothing was there?
Being then nothing, standing in front of nothing...
nothing seems to be the answer.
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If there really was a God and I did meet him then surely if he's everything he's cracked up to be then he won't really mind that I don't believe in him- forgiveness and all that. -
For the sake of argument: (Russell should have given this answer in my opinion) I would say that I STILL DONT BELIEVE IN YOU! You are yet to prove you are THE GOD. I have already met so many or them in my earthly life, why should I treat you any differently? Can you offer me some proof AT LEAST NOW?... AND...next time around when you get to create a brain that is supposed to answer these kind of questions, you better SPEND MORE THAN A DAY AT IT. I can tell you this- this particular job you did is commendable when I compare myself with a chimp, but on objective terms, IT IS A LOUSY CREATION and my friends back on earth are working to improve it. Darwin helps to some extent, but even he takes too long to get something done. And we dont like to wait.
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There is no external god/diety/entity. There is just pure energy.-
Doesn't answer the question.
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I would reply, "God it's better to be an atheist than to be one of those fools believing in the insanities of religions. If it's religion that you need to identify with I don't still believe in you. You're a Satan!" -
As long as a person lives by the rule "do no harm" I don't care what religion or no religion they abide by!!
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Now, almost every religion says "do no harm". It's just that they define "harm" differently.
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True but to me harm means afflicting pain or discomfort on another being
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Hmm, you question is based upon a premise that we do not believe in. What if when YOU die, you find nothing, and realize you spent your life worshiping a non-entity?
Live, be free, unchain your soul and free yourself of the bindings inflicted upon you. Realize that the 'power' of God is human power, human invention meant to control the masses and nothing more! Realize that the 'word of god' is in fact the written word of man! Wake up! You have eyes and ears and logic and yet choose to use none of them! Open your eyes to the beauty of the world around you and partake and indulge your humanity!
scarletlords.blogspot.com
Hmmmm.....-
If you die and there is nothing...you won't be aware of it! You won't 'find' or 'realise' anything, you'll just cease to be. It is very annoying that the atheists won't have a chance to be smug with the theists when we die as they have been with us in life!
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You'll find as many smug and condescending athiests as you will christians. It's certainly not something limited to a race or religion. It's the nature of many people to tell you why your conviction is wrong, what that conviction may be, depends on the person.
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I understand it [the question] is based upon something you do not believe in, this is what drove me to direct the question to those who do not believe. It is, as has been pointed out, a question for the sake of argument (though I'm looking for no argument).
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A few things I'd ask god:
"What is the sound of one hand clapping?"
"Was man your mistake, or were you his?"
"If you wanted us to call, why is it a sin to use your name in vain?" -
If there is a god he would simply not ask that question because he would already know the answer . -
I am not have delusions my friend
just wake up
religion and politics are the opium of the people....
and when we die ALAS my friend-
Mr. Marx would be proud.
What about the question?
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Snuffy is so right! -
Nothing. Never felt I had to explain or defend my view of life and the universe before, and that situation wouldn't change it.
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"Since I'm damned anyway, could I make snuff with Lilith?"
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Personally if I had the chance I would punch him on the pecker. Wilfully creating life in order that it may suffer? The ultimate sadism and cruelty.
But the probability of any kind of personal god along monotheist lines is so tiny as to be almost irrelevant, so I won't get the opportunity. -
This really made me think about my reasons for being a humanist (rather than atheist) and I've just blogged about it....
I think I would say something very similar to the quote in the original post -
I don't think God could be a jealous vengeful fellow acting like a spoilt child. God loves us and that's why created us free. Free to chose. We can chose not to believe though that would be a hard life lacking spirituality. Expecting god to angrily pester us to believe doesn't sound right.Its up to us go chose whether to believe and have God on our side or forgo faith and do without the divine richness of spiritual development.-
A life not believing in God or a higher power does NOT equal a life without spirituality or faith.... I have a lot of faith, a huge amount, and I am quite spiritual at times too. And happily humanist.
Of course I think it's wonderful that you are spiritual too in whichever way you need to be, but please don't assume that atheists/humanists etc are not spiritual people. From a quick Google - 'Spirituality is often associated with religion, but that doesn't have to be the case. Spirituality has more to do with recognizing and harnessing the spirit within oneself.' -
I live in the spirit. He's called Jack Daniels.
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Religion is our human and fallible way to seek God. Spirituality is knowing.
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Sometimes, atheist think that they have no God because they can't see God.
So, could they see their brain?
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They go in an MRI chamber and see the picture afterwards.
Invent me a machine that will show me God -
yes
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If there were no gods we would invent them. And guess what, 'his' identity would fit perfectly with our racial and cultural identities, and said races and cultures would spend the rest of time bickering and fighting amongst themselves about which one is the real one.
Coincidence, huh?
"I was a devout Christian until I had an atheist epiphany" (me)-
"I was a devout Christian until I had an atheist epiphany" (me)
Me too - I learned how to meditate and it turned my life around in a very good way.
Here's a comment from a BC member in another thread on the General Discussion forum. It contains this quote by Brennan Manning. I believe that the quote accurately describes why many the world over have turned away from "freedom of religion" and toward "freedom from religion".
"The greatest single cause of atheism in the world today is Christians, who acknowledge Jesus with their lips, then walk out the door, and deny Him by their lifestyle. That is what an unbelieving world simply finds unbelievable.”"
www.blogcatalog.com/discuss/entry/do-you-blieve-in-god-yes-or-no#comment_69... -
wrong spot - see below
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I like that Timethief, so true in many cases but not always all. I believe there is some kind of God (not the old man image but an all-being good spirit). Should I find myself in front of a God as had been portrayed in life by humans I'd be fascinated to know why He/She/It hadn't got better things to worry about than little ol' me!-
I firmly believe that mankind created all gods and will continue to create them. I'm also convinced I won't be finding myself in front of a god depicted in human form because I don't have "religion", and I am not bound by the delusional belief that I have a "personal relationship" with a non-existent supernatural being.
When I meditate and all the things associated with my "self" like greed, anger, hate, etc. dissolve is that there really is no self; there is no distinct being that is separate from the universal stream of pure consciousness -- quiet joy, peace, love ie. god.
Neither male nor female, neither good nor bad, neither light nor darkness but containing all there is and situate everywhere: the universal stream of consciousness flowing through all is god. Hence, god is found in everyone and in everything; god just keeps on is-ing.
Meeting god therefore simply means becoming one with all that is just as I do when I meditate. -
thanks timetheif and myriadlife. I have been thinking about freethinking.
www.ornaross.com/freethinking/2008/12/how-free-is-your-thinking/
I’m wondering: could we reclaim the Freethinking concept, make it over a positive, creative, spiritual force, rather than a negative, destructive and anti-religious protest?
Could we have a Freethinking movement that is intelligent, inquiring & informed AND tolerant, open and contemplative?
Could we have Spiritual Freethinking? Creative Freethinking? Inspirational Freethinking?
Is this possible?
What do you (free)think?
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i would say,
i have done all the things in my life i needed to and i don't think you should judge me on what i believed -
If I were to meet the so-called Christian God of the Bible, metaphorically or literally interpreted, my answer would be, On top of the lack of any type of evidence, you and your "conduct" had absolutely no relevance to my life.
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Ooh! I got one.
"So you're the jerk that hates everyone but is far too sadistic to kill us all at once, huh?" -
did you found the answer?.....
buhahahaha
be serious -
Bahahahaha Resurection
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thank you.
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for the New Year
I am gonna search
for Utopia!!
peace
tranquility
wealth
health
love
understanding
success
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