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ADD/ADHD is Nonsense
Posted by asoothsayer • 5/05/09 • Subscribe to this Discussion [RSS] • Report This Topic
Topics: add, adhd, parenting
I've spent the past 10 years in education as a teacher, coach and learning specialist. Each year the number of students taking medication for ADHD grows uncontrollably. Surprisingly, many of them had been diagnosed as young as the age of 2!! I am not a doctor or a psychologist, but I have great experience and ADD/ADHD is false. Children/teens are kids, they are curious, can't sit for very long, and get bored easily.(This is personality, not a disease. Plus, you add in parents who do not discipline, teach manners, or hold their children accountable, BAM! ADHD. Let's just give them drugs instead of parenting or understianding our child, it'll be easier.
User Comments
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Unless you are a licensed doctor you cannot say it is 'false.' It may be overdiagnosed but not 'false.' That is absurd. -
I agree, the amount of diagnoses of ADHD/ADD are a bit much. I've been working with kids for sometimes now myself and I notice this is becomming a pretty sad trend. However, I also have reletives and know children who actually DO have ADD because of being born addicted to drugs or having an actual mental disability. In these cases, we have still sometimes chosen not to medicate, but in some we have and I understand both sides.-
True, I understand both sides. In a decade I can name one student who definitely needed the meds. Yes, many doctors and parents, for some reason, tend to jump to the easiest conclusion. For a "Just Say No to Drugs" society, there seems to be a trend (not just for ADHD) to say "yes" to medication.
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I agree. I happen to be an adult with ADD who has chosen holistic methods instead, and my paretns never even saw it as a problem. I also dated a man once who had ADD and was medicated.
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I've got ADD, which I was diagnosed with when I was born. I stopped taking medications for it, which I was taking Ritalin for sometime and then Adderall. Ritalin made me jittery and nerve shocked, and Adderall literally made me starve myself as I lost appetite to eat anything.
Overdiagnosed, yes. Non-sense, no.-
Have you managed to overcome the symptoms?
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That's a no sooth. I still find myself being constantly distracted by the smallest things or finding myself drifting away from what I am currently doing.
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We don't hear of ADD nearly to the same extent in Europe. I think watching too much TV might be a major explanation. Kids get agitated and lose concentration when their brain is synced into alpha waves. That and their gamer thing and what not contributes to rewire the brain. I think Twitter may do that too
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I think there definitely could be a connection between computers/tv/video games and lack of exercise and fresh air
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All these drugs are given to kids and so-called mental patients in the name of conformity. It's a way to punish eccentricity and disruptive behavior. Non-comformity is the number one crime in every society. Freedom and the rewards of society are only for "normal" people who behave and follow the rules.-
that is bordering on profound, NP
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Let me give you some personal insight without you feeling I am attacking you. First, my 7 year old son is bi-polar. When the discussions were tossed about with regards to ADD and every other alphabet disorder, we, as parents, were not convinced. So, I see where you are coming from. However, behavioral problems are not all home, school, family, or enviromental problems. Most teachers we have spoke to try to give their years of expertise as an answer to how children act. Really? I know you asked about ADD. But dismisal of behavior as kids being kids was probably our very worst mistake. Now, what age is it that determines mental issuses? Also, some parents don't take a great insight into their child's behavior or anything else. Teacher recomends seeking help because of behavioral problems in school. Parents see a doctor to explain. Doctor prescribes medication. So, I've always thought that the teachers/ drug manufactuers/ doctors were all in on it together. One has their life made easier and the other one gets paid. Is it nonsense? Yes.
But, I see it hard to dismiss a child solely because you think it is bunk. I would gladly of payed you a visit as my son's teacher to explain to you that unless you know your facts specifically to each child, that it might be better to keep it to yourself.
With all that being said. I hope You didn't feel attacked, it was not my intent. My personal experience with teachers expermenting with my son about put me over the edge.-
iyaayasmoderator, no I did not feel attacked and I welcome the comment. This is what I think these discussions should be for. Yes, I have experience, but everyone who has experience can still learn, because my background and enviorment are not the same as others. I have known students who come from good homes, are loved and cared for, but still have mental issues. Humans are not the perfect machinery, wiring gets frayed for some reason or another.
If I was your son's teacher I would have been more than happy to meet, to have tried any and every solution we could. I would never dismiss a kid because they misbehave. The one student who without a doubt needed medication rarely took it. I had him in my classroom and I coached him in soccer. He was high maintenance, sometimes rude (though he never meant to be) and there were times when I had to kick him out of the class or bench him, but we always worked together and we still talk today (5 years later).I do not think these "misbehaved" kids should be tossed aside and I wouldn't even really consider it misbehaving. (Hope that made some sense) -
asoothsayer. Is there a common thread to what is thought in society and school the same? Meaning, how one person sees the world can and will be judged by others. A persons mentality is gaged by their education more often than not. As a parent, and as a Cub Scout leader (2nd graders), I see alot as far as what happens when you get young boys together. I approach behavior first with the child, then with the parent. I want them to know that I spoke to their son and what I said. Am I qualified to discuss someones childs behavior with them or the parent? Absolutely not. Why do I? I do it as a parent. When working in a group of 2nd graders, I get to see it all, every kind of behavior, good and bad. I'm in scouts as a leader for my son. He wanted it and I thought it would be good for his social skills. I've been asked more than once about my son. Want to know what question I hate? "What's wrong with your son?" I've gotten to the point where I have a handout with the explanation/expectations of a person with bi-polar disorder.
In school, we have noticed the behavior from other children, usually not the kindest, is not discouraged. It's expected, kids will be kids.
So, I suppose that if people knew the differences between the different "disorders" than, as parents, teachers, family, and even employers, could help our children instead of labeling them and drugging them to conform to a standard of normalcy in our society. Ever asked the definition of normal?
I didn't mean to mis-direct your thread here. Thanks for getting back with me, we need more teachers who want to understand our children and not just teach our children.
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I wonder if anyone has read Thomas Szasz. He's a renegade psychiatrist who pretty much dismisses the whole concept of mental illness. His most recent books deal with what he calls "The Pharmeceutical Nation" which he argues is a new form of totalitarianism.
Very thought-provoking.-
Sounds interesting, I'll check it out.
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Have you ever seen the list of drugs vs. the problems? It's enormous. Their is a drug for everything. Except, no cure for cancer, no cure for H.I.V., pancreatic cancer, and so forth. As a society we depend on our doctor's to prescribe something for what ever might ail us. That would be the habit to break. Maybe if we didn't ask for drugs any more, there wouldn't be that easy answer or treatment so readily available.
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I have the ADD and I'm fine. Never had to take medication for and over time I've learned when it's worse and how to maintain it better. For the most part I'm........
OOOOOOO LOOK! SHINNY OBJECTS! -
One of my biggest pet peeves is *teachers* who give a diagnosis to parents, "Your child has ADD/ADHD" and then the parents visit their GP (not a specialist) who pulls out a prescription pad and gives the kid medication. Totally irresponsible.
However, it is JUST as irresponsible for YOU (a teacher, who has ZERO medical training that I can see) to claim that ADD/ADHD is false. You don't know what you are talking about.
ADD/ADHD most definitely does exist. Is it misdiagnosed? Yes. Are some children overly medicated? Yes. However, it would be far better for physicians who specialize in childhood behavioral disorders to make a diagnosis. Not you.
Oh, and by the way--I am a psychologist.-
@MtT: I always respect your opinions, but I'm not so sure it does exist, at least as a medical condition. I think it's a form of behavior that has been identified and labeled, like schizophrenia. Once the label, the category, has been established it's easy to fit people into it. I highly recommend Thomas Szasz's books, challenging the whole medical medical used by the psychiatric profession. I'm not saying he's right and you're wrong, but it's something to think about
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mtyler77, Congratulations on being a psychologist. If you had read the entire thread and followed the discussion, you would have seen that I never diagnose students, tell their parents how to raise them, or dismiss the child all together. You will also see that I believe these children need help, but that medication isn't always the answer.
I am all for open discussion of differeing opinions, but only in a respectable manner. As I mentioned earlier, everyone has different experiences which is why everyone has different opinions. Listening, thinking, and then responding is how productive discussions work. -
I am very familiar with Thomas Szasz's books--I have read Ceremonial Chemistry, The Myth of Mental Illness and others. I believe that he makes *some* good points. However, I am a biopsychologist--I study biological and genetic influences on behavior and our psychological health--and I can tell you *for certain* that a person simply cannot say that there is no medical basis for this disorder. There is--most definitely. Now, can it be treated without medication? Yes, it often can and I highly recommend that as a first round of treatment.
I believe there is a huge amount of misdiagnosis but there is absolutely no doubt that in some cases, there is most certainly a biochemical imbalance.
I have seen some kids who benefited greatly with medication--the quality of their life and their education improved drastically. Often, meds can help preliminarily--until alternative methods to control behavior can be implemented.
But teachers who have ZERO medical training have absolutely no business diagnosing behavior--and they also have no business declaring a disorder as 'false' -- particularly one there is a great deal of concensus on.
Szasz has an interesting view--but it is only one view and certainly not the prevalent one. It's good to look at many different views and to remember that you cannot dismiss a cause of behavior across the board. People are too varied--behavior is too varied--it's wrong to look at any disorder (or treatment) as black and white--because there are *many* shades of gray. -
I still wonder if what we have here is not more a social problem than a medical one. Drugs may enable the individual to function more successfully in a social setting, to be more attentive and productive, but that still doesn't prove the child has a disease. Genetic and chemical evaluations , in my opinion, show more hindsight than insight and, from a philosophical viewpoint,are pretty dubious.
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There is a social aspect to ADD--but that is not the entire story. For almost every psychological problem/disorder, there are two interacting factors: 1) a genetic/biological predisposition and 2) an environmental trigger that causes that problem to manifest. They almost always work together, including in the case of ADD/ADHD.
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@the OP--no, that's not what you said originally. Here are your exact words:
"I have great experience and ADD/ADHD is false. Children/teens are kids, they are curious, can't sit for very long, and get bored easily.(This is personality, not a disease. Plus, you add in parents who do not discipline, teach manners, or hold their children accountable, BAM! ADHD. Let's just give them drugs instead of parenting or understianding our child, it'll be easier."
You are clearly pronouncing that you think ADD/ADHD is 'false' not only give a diagnosis but give an etiology of the disorder--when you have ZERO training in psychology.
Teachers have a lot of respect for me--but one of my biggest pet peeves is teachers such as yourself that claim to have understanding of medical conditions when you simply do not. -
Great article on medication and ADD: news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7090011.stm
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There are kids and adults with neurological disorders. There are also parents/doctors/school administrators who simply think that childhood is a neurological disorder. it's too bad-
well said.
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Given how it operates, I would tend not to put more stock in the official voice of the medical community than in the observations of front line educators. Key word being tend.
Though not directly related to the subject, I recommend listening very closely to the upstream specialists in this video... and how, when they benefit directly, most health "specialists" (or for that matter anyone in any organization) tend not to question the "official (party) line".
video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-266890172132861595 -
I'm adult ADHD/mild Asperger's and I know it exists.
My current honey is also ADHD - together we can sometimes be a riot - but we're both tuned to each other very well. -
Often ADD/ADHD is misdiagnosed Celiac Disease. Cut out Gluten with these children and see if that helps.
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If I were in school now, I'd certainly be diagnosed ADD. I had an incredibly difficult time paying attention and was bored silly throughout grade school, and got poor grades. As I moved up in my education, and there was more room for independent thinking and creativity, I did better and better however. By the time I got to the PhD level, in fact, I seemed to be having an easier time than most of my fellow graduate students. So...do I have a learning disability, or is there a problem with the one-size-fits-all method of teaching in most schools?-
The round pegs that fit neatly into the round holes are called normal. The square pegs that do not fit neatly into the round holes are given pseudo-scientific names like: schizophrenic,obsessive-compulsive, ADD,manic-depressive, etc. They are told they are mentally ill, and are treated accordingly by friend, foe and family alike.
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Jay--you and I have talked about this and I, like you, had ADD/ADHD as a child--I am certain of it. Every report card from my early years says the same thing, "Does not pay attention."
I agree wholeheartedly that schools need to take into account different types of learning--and I also believe that there are behavioral approaches that are very effective at dealing with ADD/ADHD but I have worked extensively with children with behavioral problems. I know that at least for some of them, medication can be very helpful--even necessary--in helping them focus until the behavioral techniques can be learned.
And when a child is TRULY ADHD, medication can be a real lifesaver. ADHD, untreated, can lead to much more severe problems in the child's future.
The most important thing all of us can do is to recognize that people are different. There is not *one way* to treat any child (or adult for that matter) because we are all too different. Some people can learn to deal with ADD without the benefit of medication--yet others most definitely need it.
Just because we didn't have a term for ADD when I was a child doesn't mean that it didn't exist then. I believe that I would have been far better off if this problem had been recognized and treated at a young age.
And for the OP to say that it is 'false' is to deny a multitude of evidence that indicates that it most definitely is a problem, ranging in severity, for many children.
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ADD/ADHD is not "false" or a simple behavioral problem. Like many others have said, it gets over diagnosed by lazy doctors or overly anxious parents or what have you...but it most certainly does exist.
My husband not only had it as a child, but he also has adult ADD. He hated taking the medications, and so refused to take them, and he suffered as a result. He now has to see two psychologists a week to try and help him find ways to cope with it. The doctor he sees primarily is highly skeptical of diagnosis, and prescriptions without first seriously exploring all other options.
After months of exploratory sessions, tests, etc...the doctor came to the final conclusion of adult ADD. My husband still refuses to take medications (which is his right), so they are both working on little things to help him function somewhat normally. Without constant attention to diet, and daily behavioral exercises, it is debilitating up to an including the loss of employment due to an inability to cope.
Obviously, he isn't a curious child with ants in his pants.
I absolutely agree that children should not be automatically labeled and put on meds. But I think it's incredibly offensive and dangerous to reject the existence of ADD/ADHD altogether.
We struggle with it everyday. (I say "we" because I have to deal with his behaviors, too). it is certainly not a made up problem.-
Anok: I'm curious what the behaviors are that indicate adult ADD. Can you give me some examples? I am skeptical, not of the behaviors-I'm sure they exist-but of the diagnosis of it as a disease. But I'm open to overcoming my ignorance.
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Well, the obvious ones are a total lack of organizational skills. But not like in a "I haven't had enough coffee yet" sort of way. It's more obsessive and dysfunctional than that. No matter how hard he tries, he simply loses everything and he can't find them, even if they're right where he always puts them. (I'm thinking keys and socks right now ) I got a small taste of what it's like when I went through more serious PMDD symptoms without any hormonal helpers.
It's not the same, mind you, but the end result was very close. of course, my experience was temporary. it felt like I knew what I needed, and I knew where it all was...but I just...couldn't...make my mind...work...at all.... It's a bit like trying to get things done when you have a fever and are on a double does of NyQuil.
For my husband though, it's not because his mind has slowed down into a fog, it's because it's moving faster than he can reasonably process. So add some crack to that NyQuil fog, and I think that's what it feels like.
Also, his physical activities are affected. He essentially acts before thinking. There's a lack of inhibitors that would make an average person stop and consider their surroundings, actions, and movements before proceeding. So he's terribly "clumsy" but to a point where he's destructive.
On a deeper level, there's some kind of disconnect between what he sees/feels/hears and how his brain interprets it. i couldn't explain how that works, other than relating it to my dyslexia. No matter how long I stare at a word, the letters simply won't reveal their secrets to me. I'm thinking it's similar, but it encompasses all things, not just words or numbers or sounds or colors. This has cost him jobs, because he simply cannot grasp the simplest of tasks. He can't remember what order to do things, and winds up making HUGE mistakes.
His inability to remember or process information also increases anxiety and frustration on his part. So he winds up exploding in these super tantrums because he simply can't make his mind and body work together. He wants to do everything so fast but he either can't, doesn't understand what he's supposed to do, or destroys the project
However....he does have the ability to focus on one or two things. Model making and music can capture his attention, and he can slow down and focus on tiny details for HOURS. But you can't talk to him when he's "in the zone". you can try, and he might respond, but he'll look at you with a glazed over expression like, "I'm not here right now". Which is dangerous if he's home alone with Punky, and zones out.
He also has a weird thing with speech, reading/writing, and speech patterns. He stumbles a lot because he talks faster than his mouth can move, and he'll be in the middle of one sentence, and start a completely new one.
It's like listening to a badly scratched CD. it can take me several minutes before I have the faintest idea what he's talking about sometimes.
On the flip side, he has the ability to understand abstract concepts in the blink of an eye. But tying his shoes? Forget it
As for professional diagnosis requirements, I'm of no use to you I don't know what his doctor did to diagnose him, but I do have the same doctor for my PMDD, and I can tell you, he's thorough as all get out. -
Nothing profound...
Uhm I could give it a whack.
I have ADHD and Aspergers.
I can focus on MANY things at once.
For example: I'd be an excellent air traffic controller.
I can multi-task COMPLETELY.
And still carry on a conversation.
I can type, talk on a microphone, pick up a pen with my right hand and jot a quick note - and still process the information on the phone with a consumer/client/victim.
I can watch a television show, type what I am writing, carry on a conversation with someone else - and do all of those things WELL.
I go to a restaurant and can listen in and completely understand the conversations at the other tables in listening proximity while eating dinner. I can see and smell what they are all having, while eating my own dinner and enjoying my own conversation. I hear every clink of the dishes, glasses and silverware - I'm aware of every sound or movement surrounding me.
In fact, I CANNOT SHUT THEM OUT.
I cannot stop multi-tasking at any point in time.
I have difficulty concentrating on just ONE thing.
With the exception of reading books or watching movies that interest me - or playing an RPG that totally enthralls me.
Then I can hyperfocus on those specific things to the exclusion of everything else... And conversations that go on, are buffered or lost to me, sounds do not affect me at that point, when I'm immersed in something like that.
It's difficult to understand other people who cannot do 2 or more things at once. It is difficult to concentrate on doing just one thing. It is hard to listen or talk to just ONE person - especially if what they are saying is not in tune or does not jump around like your mind is doing.
Your mind is constantly jumping - ever broadening. Like a tree --- the main concept starts, but then within seconds, your brain has branched off to ten different possibilities or extensions of that main concept, and you are UNABLE to reign it back in to JUST the main topic.
For me - now toss in the inability to read social clues, twitches, body languages or changes in tonality in voices that are NOT extreme.
I cannot understand lies. I cannot see a person lying unless it is so blatantly obvious that I know better. I don't see the visual clues to lies that other people recognize.
There is so much more - but that's just a very brief oversight how it is for me.
Now keep in mind, I have learned techniques to use that try and promote myself more effectively and to understand others. But that is how my life is without using those techniques.
WW
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Thank you Anok - with ADD and ADHD comes certain trial and tribulations.
With Aspergers, even a small amount, comes an every day harder trial.
It has taken me YEARS and YEARS of self analysis and deep thinking to make myself interact positively and socially with others in LIVE social settings without feeling extremely agitated or not being able to read other people's visual body language clues, nor being able to understand duplicity in any way.
It has taken me years to realize that I'm niave, but that I understand things better than most in typewritten sense as long as it does not deal with me personally.
It has taken me time to force myself to stop caring about the effect I have on others, but instead to focus on the effect they have on me.
That may sound strange to try to explain, but those with the same disorders who have gone through life floating - not understanding what is so easily understood by most others - but at the same time being able to see so much more than others at the same time --- but being unable to effectively communicate it --- they will completely understand.
It's a VERY debilitating disorder.
But at the same time, it is great in it's own way.
Which is probably why you have chosen to love your husband like you do.
Because in his own way - he has a special GREATNESS about him that makes you love him and understand him.
Thanks for your insight there.
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Yes! That's exactly it. I tried to explain it above...he can't grasp simple things, but he can understand some things that make my head hurt. It's wild.
Our marriage was far more difficult until I finally admitted that he was not, in fact lazy. He was not, in fact just trying to get out of doing chores. he was not in fact faking it. His problem is very real, and it takes both of us to help him function on somewhat of a normal level.
Let me ask you, were there any social situations where you felt the most comfortable? My husband always liked loud hardcore/metal shows and mosh pits. Something about the music, lack of lighting, and being among so many people you're actually alone that soothes and comforts him. -
Don't freaking laugh - ok?
I like roller coasters and theme parks.
I feel so normal there. LMAO! I can completely be myself and not focus on ANYTHING else.
But also when I write. I become more focused. Writing is a soothing thing for me. No matter what kind of writing. Journaling, ad copy, lyrics, poetry - etc. Just as long as I'm interested in the topic.
Anything humorous.
But I am not at all lazy. A bit disorganized at times, but I have to have things either "MONK" (the tv show) organized or if it gets out of whack - then I'm a mess as in, I can't keep it clean.
I also change my mind on how I like things to look very regularly. Like for one month, I like it soft lighting, then glaringly bright - then colorful, then single toned, etc.
I get BORED very easily.
I'm not lazy - but getting up to clean the house just seems like such a daunting task, unless I can do it MY way.
My EX ---- HATED it when I cleaned.
I clean like this:
Start to pick up clothes to put in the washer from the bedroom hamper to go to the bathroom to pick up the clothes from that hamper, while I'm there, I notice the bathtub could use a scrub, so I do that, then notice I got water on the floor, so I sweep the floor and then mop it, the pile of clothes meant to go into the washer haven't made it in there yet, but while putting the swiffer away, I notice that the trash needs to be dumped, so I dump it - and take it outside - while outside I realize that there is a bunch of trash that came out of the trash bin - so I pick it up, while I'm picking it up - I see that a bill accidentally made it into the trash, so I take it inside and I pay that bill, when I put the checkbook back into my purse, I realize that my purse needs to be cleaned, so I shake out my bag, clean it up, have 3 piles of stuff 1 of them that needs to go in the trash - ooops forgot the trash bag liner, so I put one in - and see that the cabinet is disorganized, so I organize it and wipe it out, then I go back to the 2 remainder piles, one is a pile of makeup that needs to go back into the bathroom, so I head up to the bathroom, and notice that makeup is on the mirror, so I clean the mirror, then I realize I look a mess, so I fix myself up... Then I realize I'm thirsty - so while I go get a soda from the fridge, I realize someone spilled coolaid - and I clean it up - then toss the sponge in the sink, and find it bounced off the dishes, so I throw a load of dishes in the dishwasher - when closing the dishwasher, I realize there is a spill outside the dishwasher of something so I wipe off the dishwasher, and some spills on the floor, so I get the broom out and wipe it up, and sweep the floor...
And then he comes out and yells at WHY IS THERE A PILE OF LAUNDRY IN THE HALLWAY outside of the bathroom and where are his clean socks.
Sigh....
LMAO
That's just the way it is for me.
Takes me about 48 hours to clean the WHOLE house - but I do it in a zig zag manner.
But - I quit cleaning when he started yelling at the way I do it.
LMAO -
I'm laughing at your cleaning routine...hahahah my husband does the SAME thing! LMAO.
What I do for him, when I need his help cleaning (I am very obsessive about how clean the how is, so I typically do it myself)...however I make a checklist, and each person has a section, and as they've finished a task, they check the box then move onto the next section.
It works on him, and our kid
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You know, I think there are any number of things that can and have contributed to the rising number of both child and adult ADD/ADHD diagnosis. Diet, parenting, socialization, an increasingly sedentary lifestyle, an ever-increasing pace of information.
Interestingly enough, I'm beginning to wonder if ADD/ADHD are simply indicators of significant, evolutionary changes occurring within our society. I'm wondering more and more everyday if we're witnessing a phenomena we'll be studying in history books someday ... physical changes that are finally enabling human beings to keep up with the pace of the life we now lead.-
I actually had a theory that the way TV and shows/commercials work actually increases or makes the symptoms of ADD worse, or may even trigger mild symptoms of ADD in children who aren't actually ADD.
The rapid succession of information at a pace your mind really isn't equipped to handle, I think, can make it worse, or trigger other problems.
But you do have an interesting theory - evolution in the making....if it wasn't so debilitating in other ways, though....
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I think it might be a facet of evolution.
Because I am able to process information much faster than most people.
But only if it's something that I'm interested in - otherwise it's boring and I shut it out. -
Ummm my classroom is a testament that it is real and DOES exist!!!!!!!-
maybe its the teacher
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well it does take one to teach one lol
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As a social worker I see the results of kids with mothers who did drugs. Drugs can change the brain chemistry of a child and many are ADHD. But I agree that ADD/ADHD is way over diagnosed. -
it may be over-diagnosed, but some children cannot function or do well in school without ADD medication. my brother hated school and was about to fail out of the 5th grade until he was put on strattera - now he loves school and no longer even needs very much medication. after seeing it in both my father and my brother, it's a serious hinderance to those who aren't diagnosed. it wasn't a known issue when my dad was young, and he struggled for his entire life because people don't understand it. it's painful for children/adults who do have it, and for someone to say it's not real is both untrue and no help to solving the problems those who have the learning disability.
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I agree....medication can be very helpful.
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I will say that I AGREE that it may be over diagnosed.
But then - I think again that maybe... just maybe --- people are beginning to understand it.
Perhaps in the past those children were more abused and kept out of the public eye as humiliating, because parents might have been intolerant.
Perhaps it is the chemicals in our society or the smog or pollutions... Perhaps it is the medications we've been given or the drugs people have taken. Perhaps it's mother nature trying to give humanity a boost because of information overload.
Who knows?
I know that right now - it has been both a blessing and a disaster for me in my life. -
Treating symptoms does not address root causes. Food for thought:
www.associatedcontent.com/article/100493/do_add_and_adhd_really_exist.html?...
www.associatedcontent.com/article/37412/how_to_help_your_addadhd_child_with...
www.associatedcontent.com/article/139335/can_too_much_tv_cause_add_or_adhd.... -
Just read that in Europe only neurologists can diagnose an ADD.
Some heavy metals, like lead, and food coloring or preservatives(benzoate of sodium) are deemed to contribute to hyperactivity and lack of concentration for children:
# ↑ Exposures to environmental toxicants and attention deficit hyperactivity disorder in U.S. children. Braun JM, Kahn RS, Froehlich T, Auinger P, Lanphear BP ; Environ. Health Perspect. 114 (12): 1904–9 (2006). PMID 17185283 [archive]
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17185283?dopt=Abstract
Hummm, I'd wager that the barium and aluminium in chemtrails doesn't help either
www.youtube.com/watch?v=okB-489l6MI -
Wow.........being gone for a day and things get angry.
Why is it that we try to assume that ADD/ADHD is a medical diagnosis instead of a social diagnosis? Or vice versa. I am no doctor, just a Dad who has read alot of opinions over the years. "Everyone" wants to blame someone or somthing to account for social behavioral problams. Why? My opinion is that it is because unlike a physical appearing disorder or haveing an extra gene, or something one can see, we struggle with the mental state of mind. We can't see into another's head to see his/her thoughts or stability now can we?
What we can do, and almost always do, is try to follow a pattern which would conform a child/adult into a "normal" state. Someone elses idea of normal will differ from mine, so who would be right, the doctor, the parent, the teacher, who? -
I agree completely. As someone who was diagnosed with ADD, told they were stupid by teachers, but tested in the top 1 percent in IQ (not bragging just telling the story) - the school system and pharmaceutical industry have things completely backwards. The old model is that there is a predominant brain type and everyone else needs to fall in line. That just is not the case.
John J. Ratey is an incredible writer on the topic of ADD. I am a huge evangelist for this guy. After reading his book "A User's Guide to the Brain" I finally "got it" in terms of brain types and functioning. Ratey characterizes ADD/ADHD as a dopamine deficiency, or basically the brain does not create the dopamine sufficient for tasks such as sitting at a desk and reading for long periods of time. The brain of an ADDer needs further stimulants. But, instead of figuring out what can be done people just want to give us drugs. I took ritalin as a child and it messed me up. I feel hyper emotional and out of control on it and it was horrible. Now I'm very sensitive and am just getting over caffeine, alcohol, and nicotine dependencies - which is completely tied together with lower natural dopamine levels.
What cognitive evolutionary psychologists will tell you is a lower natural dopamine level will do is cause the person to look for greater sources of stimulants - mainly through creativity. Essentially there is a evolutionary reason for the ADD brain type - they create. Look at the correlation between stimulant dependency and artistic or business development. They go hand in hand.
I'm a firm believer in the idea that you can't just give someone a pill for every damn thing. Doctors need to think about what they are doing rather than just prescribing another pill, of which the long term effects are just becoming known. Neurologists or PhD psychologists should be the only to prescribe, and then after exhausting options.
Anyway, I discuss why I stopped drinking coffee in a blog last week due to ADD in general, actually. Would love to discuss this further.
willtravelforfood.net/2009/04/27/stimulants_on_the_brain/ -
This is also the position I take. ADD people are different, not abnormal. They don't need to be altered, just allowed to develop in the direction their propensities take them.
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Ram and nothingproudof - your opinions are great, until you realize that this "normal" or "high functioning" non issue IS an issue that causes debilitating everyday problems.
Like keeping a job (like my husband). Or understanding basic educational building blocks.
You may not want to sit at a desk, many kids don't - but when you have a child who is struggling to learn the basics regardless of using special teaching techniques, that child will have nothing but problems for the rest of their life, because they won't be able to read, or do basic math, or understand basic concepts on which the rest of their education is built upon.
It is not imaginary, and sometimes medication is warranted.-
Anok-I've had symptoms similar to your husband, so I sympathize. I'm not claiming the behaviors or responses are imaginary, but I don't believe it's accurate to call it a disease. I'd call it "a problem in life" if someone really feels cheated or diminished by it. In that case, they should do whatever they feel is necessary to help themselves, including taking medication. I never considered it a problem, I would've resisted all interference, and I'm very happy with my life and the way it turned out. We all have our own way of looking at things.
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Anok - I completely sympathize with your husband and the kids who could not stay at their desk.
My father told me in the early 60's, when he was in school, the teachers forced him to become right handed even though he naturally wrote left. The teachers at the time thought left handed people, as a minority, should just become right handed people to fit in and "normalize" the school experience. Today left handedness is not a curse, it is a normal option.
My point is that as people gain an awareness about ADD/ADHD the culture will begin to understand that ADD is something you are born with and has its advantages. ADD is not imaginary in any way. But calling it a "disorder" is not helping anything. It is a different brain type. And with the cultural environment as loud and in your face as it is and will continue to be, you will be seeing more and more "ADDers" out in the world.
It is a hard life, and I don't mean to minimize that. I finally got my college degree after 7 years. My first three years of undergrad I failed many of my classes because I couldn't control my self and was self medicating with nicotine, alcohol, and caffeine. Even though I've learned to control my self for the most part with rewards and what not I still miss out on quite a bit. Try telling a grad school that even though your GPA sucks you will be a great addition to their program. Hasn't worked out so far.
I have had to change many aspects of my life in order to control my tendencies. I limit my stimulants to a few cups of green tea throughout the day, run four days a week, and eat healthy in order to make my brain function. I highly recommend "Spark" by John Ratey. He says exercise is best way to work with ADD in the current world. As someone who has tried everything, I agree. Meds made me feel terrible and killed my creativity. With exercise I can be my self and still function in the world. ADD, I've begun to feel, is actually a good thing. After 20 years of struggle I can now say I wouldn't change a thing about my brain. -
Sorry, last thing. Yes, sometimes kids need medication. But please resist using until all other methods are exhausted.
Many, many doctors find it much easier to fill out a prescription of which they are not qualified to write for a condition they do not understand to a kid who deserves a chance to live life without his/her head in a medicated fog.
Medications are powerful and alter the brain permanently. Talk to anyone prescribed SSRIs during a rough patch of life now trying to cope without. Its much more serious than we are told. -
Nothingprofound, when something interferes with your ability to function on a normal level, it goes beyond "life problem" and becomes a disorder.
Ram, see - you've addressed what I'm talking about right there. You've had to change your lifestyle, and find different ways of doing normal things so that you can function. That's not forcing a left handed person to write with the right hand. That's not forcing "normalization" onto people.
When you can't reasonably function, it is a disorder. Disorder, by the way, isn't a bad word. It simply describes the fact that you have an imbalance, a chemical block, change or issue that prevents you from functioning on a normal level. And biological/developmental "norms" are not the same thing as trying to "normalize" a person with regards to societal norms. Biological norms consist of the median operating level of the average person of a specific age group. Being able to walk, talk, read, focus, tell colors apart, etc and so forth. When you can't do these normal biological functions within reason, you have a problem that needs to be addressed. Societal norms that are "forced" on people are more along the lines of what you stated above, forcing a left handed person to write with their right hand, or wondering why someone is "weird" because they listen to "weird music" or some such thing.
Obviously, if you have to change your life drastically to be able to function, it's not just a "different brain type" because it prevents people from being able to do basic things.
Everyone learns differently, but there is a line between learning differently, and not being able to process information at all. My dyslexia is not a "different brain type". It's a learning disorder, because it prevents me from understanding the written word, and written numbers on a regular basis.
For all intents and purposes, you could consider all mental disorders "different brain types" - and just say live with it, there's nothing wrong with it. But we know that's not true.
I can't leave my child with my husband for more than a certain period of time because of his ADD. He can't keep a job because of it. (Although his latest job seems to be a good fit, and his coworkers are patient) I can't rely on him to accomplish anything, which leaves me the sole provider and doer in almost all things.
That means it's a problem. And it needs to be addressed.
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How about vaccines as a possible contributing factor? Before 1989, only 3 vaccines were required for toddlers in the US. Ten years later, it is 22. Against half that number in a few European countries, I can speak of.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrIM2hwrLoc -
Anok - There are certainly different levels of ADD. What your husband struggles with is a different thing than what I'm talking about. And I am sorry for the issues this has caused you. It sounds like a sometimes very painful experience.
If it effects a person's ability to function in society than yes I would agree that is a disorder. However, I would argue that the majority of people "diagnosed" with ADD do not have a disorder. The reason I have to cut out caffeine, alcohol, and nicotine is, personally, more related to my burning out my ability to naturally create dopamine in the brain through the use of prescribed pharmaceuticals as a child than my naturally born condition of not being able to focus in a classroom or office setting. It is not easy for me to pay attention is only a partial truth. I find it very easy to pay attention. I just find it difficult (sometimes extremely difficult) to play by the standard game and realize that I will have to alter my behavior and life style until the greater culture around me has learned to view the way my behavior responds to my traits is something close to normal. I am weary of calling my condition a disorder as I do not believe it is. There is a significant tie between ADD and creativity. And I tie together my hyper creativity as a child with my ADD diagnosis - as the psychologists I have met with have agreed. By calling it a disorder the schools and culture placate the impact and brain type ADD as a growing phenomenon by viewing it as an unnecessary phenomenon treated easily with medication. Some kids couldn't pay attention to certain styles of teaching until someone got the idea that people are visual, auditory, or kinesthetic learners. Now that this idea is accepted universally someone who couldn't get the idea 100% by just reading is no longer looked at as lazy. Their brain gets information differently. Luckily researchers are testing different ways of helping kids with ADD pay attention better by raising the height of desks allowing kids to stand or sit comfortably, using the media that is in some way's causing the change and shift in some minds, or by working with the children individually to find patterns of behavior.
My point is that people need to develop a reasonable solutions to the growing trend of ADD without just calling it a disorder and medicating a population. I agree that disorder is not necessarily negative. However, from a semiotic perspective, the connotation is negative.
Like I said before, some people NEED to be medicated as it impacts their life greatly. Some people, though, need to learn that there is no such thing as a "normal" brain and need to learn to control their actions when it is important. The culture is way behind our current condition.
harveyavatar - Its scary to think that vaccines are partly responsible. With the high mercury content of vaccines it is completely possible. Nurtured, environmental behavior also could play a very large role. Consuming large amounts of media actually physically changes the brain and size of its components. I would be shocked if that does not have an effect.-
I absolutely agree that it is over diagnosed, and low level cognitive problems that may be diagnosed as ADD may in fact not be ADD at all.
Totally agree. I also agree that throwing meds at a problem right away is the wrong thing to do - you need to research, you need to do some trial and error first. I would actually think my husband would do better on (some) medications than just on the cognitive therapy alone, but he refuses to take any. And that's his choice. But it's an uphill, daily battle for him, and thus, for me. When he was living alone he was fine, (Save for forgetting to pay his bills), when it was just us, it was OK - but throw a kid in the mix..and damn, it's frustrating.
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I agree with you to some extent. I think it is misunderstood to a large extent. I have been diagnosed with ADHD, as have two out of my three children.
Our brains are wired differently, there is no doubt about that. We don't function well in traditional settings such as school, or church. Our brains are always busy, and we function best when our hands are busy as well.
Sitting through a long boring lecture is my idea of hell, but I placed my kids in a small charter school that takes a very hands on approach, and they do very well there.
We have a very hard time staying in the now, ie. listening to someone spell out a list of tasks. We function better with written lists that we can refer back to.
If a task does not maintain our interest it is very difficult for us to complete it. Yet if it is of interest it can hold our attention for long periods of time, sometimes ten hours pass and I hardly notice.
People with ADHD are generally highly creative, and make connection between two things that often surprise other people. A conversation can cover ten topics in a matter of minutes, leaving the average person lost but an ADHD person can see the connections between one topic and the next.
I think the real problem with having ADHD is that other people are always trying to control it. Schools are not set up for the ADHD mind, nor are jobs or the rest of society.
When we get older and have the freedom to arrange our own lives it gets much easier. We can work for ourselves, we can set our own schedules, we can shape our life around our personality instead of the other way around.
That being said I consider my ADHD one of my strongest assets, it is what gives me the drive to research a topic to the fullest, and gives me the ability to write about it and share it with others in a new and different way.
I see a lot of people using it as an excuse for what they or their children can't do... it isn't an excuse, it is an asset when you learn to channel that energy.
But that's just me... -
Boshemia - you're right on - which is why I think it's an affect or effect of possible evolution.
I think those of us with ADD/ADHD and other societal differences are often punished and made to feel as if what we are is not NORMAL and not society acceptable.
Therefor it is a disorder.
True, I can have problems functioning with non ADHD / ASPERGERS - but get me in a room of ADHD people and I have absolutely NO functioning problems.
When I am in a group of those who have similar brain functioning - we are highly functional and VERY communicative.
It's a bit strange to think that - but now that you've brought it up... I think you're right.
While I have a problem staying on task with anything that bores me... or does not excite me - I can do it if I find a way to approach it.
I am more able to see the big picture than most people that I know, and I'm more logical than most people - in fact to the point where it is glaringly obvious to me, but others just don't get it... and they often come back with "HOW did you know?".
Also - a very interesting comment above about dopamine - or the excitement center of the brain.
I have a problem with my MU and PU receptors. I do not process opiod items like other people. They relieve pain properties, but do not provide a high for me.
Also - ritalin makes me eat everything in the house - And fall asleep or be VERY exhausted.
Caffiene alternatively calms me or makes me too wired... But I gotta have it to get up in the morning - don't take my coffee away from me or you might lose an arm.
Valium makes me grumpy.
When I was 18 I tried cocaine once with a group of friends and sat there bored as all as they talked at high speed, flushed and happy and then spent nearly 5 hours digging through the carpets for something that absolutely had no effect on me other than to make me tired.
I smoked marijuana once only to find that I have allergies to it - but also got extremely hyper on it - my house was spotless and I was a nervous wreck.
So drugs affect me adversely.
I also run a body temperature of 96.8 instead of your normal 98.6
I've often wondered if others with ADHD had those issues as well.
Again - I've developed techniques that make me more efficient in society norms.
But - I do know that I'm different, and I do know that I communicate effectively with others who are like minded or also have ADHD... Provided of course we have something in common.
Just always wondered if other ADHDers were like that as well?
I'm not saying that ADHD is something special --- because it's like evolution - but maybe evolution just didn't finish yet --- LOL and we're the by-products.
But - I'm more aware of things that normal people aren't aware of. Yet - I cannot see the simple things they can.
OH - one other thing.
I cannot find a face in a crowd - yet I can find a picture for something like Where's Waldo faster than anyone.
Strange that.
WW -
Oh and Harvey - I do believe vaccines have caused a LOT of problems.
Although - I'm thankful for some of them - I believe big Pharmaceutical companies have pushed too many drugs and bad things on the humans for money.-
Wagerwitch,
Yes. You do have to wonder why such a discrepancy between the US and Europe. The accumulation of mercury and aluminium cannot be good for the brain. Although they may have toned down the mercury (but there are new heavy metals in the environment).
I also am with ramurphy on the rewiring of the brain, and I'm not too optimistic about the results of this rewiring (through TV, games, etc) on the newer generations.
Scientists ask: Is technology rewiring our brains?
www.usatoday.com/tech/science/2008-12-03-digital-brain_N.htm
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@ asoothsayer. Did you find the cross section you were looking for? There are alot of theories going on here. As a population, we over medicate. Could it be that the human gene pool is just depleted and can't offer "perfect" children any more? I learned while breeding my reptiles, rabbits, and gerbils, that every once in a while you need to start fresh. Seems immpossible in the human race. Maybe we are over-breed.
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