Discussions
Age Banding on Kids' Books - Good or Bad idea?
Posted by MikeFrench • 7/25/08 • Subscribe to this Discussion [RSS] • Report This Topic
Topics: age banding, books, novels, reading
Age guidance on children's books is in the news a lot at the moment after a suggestion in April by the Publishers Association to put a reading age on all children's books.
Philip Pullman and JK Rowling have both campaigned against the age stamps appearing on their novels. More than 700 writers have now put their names to a statement made by Philip Pullman on the site No to Age Banding.
"We are all agreed that the proposal to put an age-guidance figure on books for children is ill-conceived, damaging to the interests of young readers."
What do you think? Good idea or bad?
User Comments
-
To date, even the most violent books (Of which I am a great fan) have no sort of warnings or age ratings on them. Back when I was young, movies and music were bitched about but I could read anything desired. Seriously, I had books on Charles Manson, The Exorcist, and even my grandfather sent me Dean Koontz from time to time.
Never did understand why I was allowed to read anything, no matter how nightmare-inducing it happened to be.
Oh wait, I know the answer: Because they enhance your vocabulary, increase your imagination, keep you out of trouble, are proven to increase ones IQ, make better writers of people later on, lead to better grades in school, and overall just plain rule.
There is nothing bad about reading a book, I'll be damned if anyone tries to put a restriction on a bunch of words. If those people with their "Age Stamp" idea can think of one realistic and solid reason why books are anything but the coolest thing ever, I'm more than willing to hear them out on the idea.
JK Rowling is 100% correct on her fears that age-guidance will not have a good outcome for anybody. Around here, the libraries are filled with books and not nearly enough people reading them as it is. If I had one realistic wish, it would be that EVERYONE would read one single good book every year. Just one hour a week, instead of phone-texting or watching the sports game, pick up a book and read it and learn something. I don't give a flying f*ck what the subject is either, reading a book is nothing but the best decision someone can make for themselves.-
I could have written that post myself. This is more of making it easy for parents not to take responsibility for raising their own kids. If a book deals with difficult subject matter, read it first so that you can talk about it with your children.
Children are ready intellectually and emotional at very different ages. My 7-year-old just finished first grade and is reading at the third and fourth grade level. How bored would he be with reading if I only let him read books that were marked for his age group? How much reading do you think he'd every do? How much reading would his little brother do? He's just learning to read and get much motivation from seeing Mommy and big bro enjoying books rather than watching movies or playing video games.
(I must admit that my children are inheriting a trove of young adult books from me. I kept my old ones and re-purchased ones that I remember loving but didn't own. Plus I've got Rowling, Pullman, Funke, and the Artemis Fowl books.) -
Yeah, what Legbamel said.
I'm not opposed to warnings and such in the "Oh my God they're going to destroy free speech" kind of way--that's just silly, since a warning is just a warning and we're all free to disregard it. But the idea of age-banding books with anything that might even roughly approximate accuracy for the population at large is pure fantasy.
I definitely understand the challenge--my daughter is an avid reader and read at an upper-high-school level in elementary school. I had to work pretty hard at identifying books that were at the right reading level for her and yet weren't out of line thematically when she was eight or nine. But color-coding wouldn't have solved that problem for me. There are too many factors--the child's emotional development, the culture he/she has already been exposed to, his/her reading level, the individual child's sensitivies (or lack thereof)...
Just one more way that the world seems to think we can achieve the same results without actually doing any of the work.
I think everyone should take a week away from the computer now and read Atlas Shrugged...age-appropriate or not. -
"I could have written that post myself."
You lost all of your credibility with that, oldest cliche ever. Srlsy.
"If a book deals with difficult subject matter, read it first so that you can talk about it with your children."
Reading sentences like that is convincing me you didn't read a lot growing up. -
I'm not sure why, River. I read about 5-6 novels a week growing up, but I pay attention to everything that my 12-year-old daughter reads and if the book seems to warrant it read it with her or beforehand.
-
"...but I pay attention to everything that my 12-year-old daughter reads and if the book seems to warrant it read it with her or beforehand..."
Which is why I stopped taking you seriously a very long time ago and gave up replying. Anybody who attempts to keep a book from someone else is not anyone I want to be associated with. That kind of behavior would have only been appropriate for World War 2 when our german friends were having book burning parties in the name of censorship.
Sorry, it doesn't work. Books by the Marquis De Sade are incredibly filthy and depraved beyond anyone's imagination, I wouldn't support any of his subject matter personally. But the grammar skills and high level of reading requirements have placed him as one of the greatest authors of all time. Are you honestly telling me you would read through 1000 pages and attempt to understand his work so you could tell other people if it was appropriate or not? -
Ah, and once again you make up something I didn't say and then respond to it...you know, you could do this alone in your room...
I don't think I've ever told my daughter she couldn't read a book, though I did once tell her I'd rather she waited until she was a little older to read one. I said that I paid attention and read them myself if I thought there were going to be themes that raised issues or questions for her. -
I think you've misread MadameX here. She said that she pays attention, not that she forbids or withholds them. I don't see anything wrong with attempting to help your child work through difficult concepts and commend Ms. X for taking the time and paying enough attention to know that her daughter might want or need that help.
-
Right, but she didn't establish why she insists on "Paying attention" to what other people read. "Preferring to wait until they're older" is just as much a waste of time as paying attention in the first place. She's dodging around the argument and refuses to admit her intentions, look at where she said "..I don't think i told..." and make up your own mind though.
I will say this one more time: Anybody who wants to read anything they wish has my full support and encouragement. People who read books are a minority, we should do everything in our power to support those with a desire to read. The alternatives such as talking on the telephone and watching a sitcom are far more mind-numbing then any book ever written on the planet. You can't possibly name any other form of leisure time that is as enlightening and educational as simply reading a book. -
River, your question just establishes that you don't know anything about children. Maybe (I hope) if you ever have any, you will understand why it's important to "pay attention" to what they put into their brains as well as their bodies. If you think it's irresponsible to ask a child who has nightmares and can't sleep when she reads a horror novel to wait until she's a little older to read the next book in the series, then...well...you and I just have very different views of what "responsible" means, as we do about almost everything else.
-
"..If you think it's irresponsible to ask a child who has nightmares and can't sleep when she reads a horror novel to wait until she's a little older to read the next book in the series.."
Oh please, if they're having nightmares then they'll figure it out on their own what not to read anymore. Did I mention that RL Stine and Christopher Pike are horror authors who write specifically for children? Some of their books are pretty scary too, I read probably about 200 of them before I was 12 years old and turned out fine.
Ya know what...nevermind... -
I have to disagree with you, River. Children's minds are like sponges, and they are not born with the ability to filter information properly. So like anything else regarding child rearing, yes, you must be careful about what your child is reading. Every subject isn't appropriate for every age group, all the time.
For example, I would not allow Punky to read racist propaganda books independently, at and early age, and out of context. It wouldn't be until a certain level of education, maturity, and experience were obtained that I would even allow those types of books into my home, and only then, depending on age and maturity - I would still require a great deal of conversation and lessons along with such books.
Children are designed to readily accept information as fact, and truth, unless otherwise instructed by their parents. Hence, the need for the parent to act as the information filter, until the child grows up and develops their own, and understands how to use it. (Usually starting between ages 5-7).
There are several types of books that I can think of off hand that are inappropriate for young readers. Graphically violent, terrifying, or overtly sexual books are age inappropriate for young readers, who do not possess the knowledge or experience to handle said information properly.
That doesn't mean you can't read texts above a child's reading comprehension level. It isn't the level, but rather the subject matter, that matters. -
"and turned out fine"
That, like everything else in this discussion, is a matter of opinion.
But perhaps you think it's overly controlling if I hope to help my child avoid alcoholism, arrest, and serial-killer tattoos? -
Yeah...I understand. But Karl Marx is propaganda and people know to think critically when reading his literature.
And then this: "Children are designed to readily accept information as fact, and truth, unless otherwise instructed by their parents."
Again, I understand. But I didn't believe everything my parents said. In fact, it only encouraged me to think for myself even further.
I'm getting tired of debating for today. I would play the "Charles Darwin is good to read just because" card, but no... -
"But perhaps you think it's overly controlling if I hope to help my child avoid alcoholism, arrest, and serial-killer tattoos?"
I've never been arrested and I sure don't commit crimes. I know the difference between right and wrong. I recovered from alcoholism and learned a valuable lesson, all on my own and without depending on anyone...AA is a mindf*ck and it doesn't work..Getting off alcoholism without their help is proof that it's false. Read the 12 steps if you need a reference. And tattoos are just tattoos..You know, now you're just throwing out pointless rhetoric and it's just wasting your time.
If you're implying that books are a direct source of blame for committing crimes, getting tattooed, and drinking..You REALLY need to reprioritize.
It's my fault though, I replied to your comments and didn't expect anything less
So...Yeah..Piss Off -
River, it isn't about what we can filter and understand when we are older - or with the help of a teacher (parent, school, whatever) it is a matter of being careful what you let fill your child's head without your knowledge, consent, or ability to put it into perspective for the child, AND that the child can comprehend it properly.
You wouldn't teach a kindergarten student about calculus, or teach them how to kill people indiscriminately...you would teach them the basics first, then move on to more complicated subjects, and topics gradually.
Usually as the child begins to show proper comprehension of the basic lessons, and a basic ability to understand, and be responsible with that information too. Children's minds do not work the same way as adult's minds.
Very young children in the formative years (birth to ages 5-7) are no where near equipped to handle adult content without help or guidance from a parent, if at all for certain subjects. Children have a hard enough time distinguishing between reality and make believe for basic subjects - I couldn't imagine trying to get them to understand that a horror book - or movie or violent book or movie is only make pretend, hoping that the lesson sticks.
As we have seen in recent years, young children exposed to dangerous activities and movies with violence etc (even the make believe stuff) without parental supervision have resulted in children mimicking the "characters" they see or hear about - with deadly consequences.
Yup, just like food, video games, movies, education, and peers - a parent must act as a child's filter until the child is capable of doing so on their own. Which, by the way, happens at different ages for different kids. And parents should be open to accept that their child can handle certain subjects at earlier than expected ages. -
"You wouldn't teach a kindergarten student about calculus"
You're right, I wouldn't just flat out ask to teach them. But if they wanted to learn calculus at that age? You bet your ass I would get them every book and learn more about it myself to help them! That would be the BIGGEST sign of high intelligence.
"Usually as the child begins to show proper comprehension of the basic lessons, and a basic ability to understand, and be responsible with that information too. Children's minds do not work the same way as adult's minds."
Then explain to me how Mozart was composing at only five years old. I really wish you would understand that anyone can be a child prodigy, it's the responsibility of the parent to encourage learning.
"Very young children in the formative years (birth to ages 5-7) are no where near equipped to handle adult content without help or guidance from a parent, if at all for certain subjects."
(I think the Mozart example blows that theory out of the water. So no, I disagree with that credibility)
"As we have seen in recent years, young children exposed to dangerous activities and movies with violence etc (even the make believe stuff) without parental supervision have resulted in children mimicking the "characters" they see or hear about - with deadly consequences."
Prove it. No one's been able to yet, despite all the money poured into the theory. But if you think you have a shot at it, im all ears -
Very few children are prodigies
The vast majority of children are rather normal in development, hence prodigy being a prodigy, and the "norm" being normal
There were a rash of very young children literally mimicking their favorite wrestlers doing their favorite moves - who, without the understanding that it is choreographed, and that if done improperly it CAN be very dangerous...they killed younger siblings or friends by accident.
That is just one example, where the character, combined with an inability to properly asses fact from fiction was indeed a direct cause of death and trauma, at the hands of a child.
There was also a rash of mimicry of the Jackass stunts - hardcore wrestling from overseas, extreme sports, and video game characters.
Children mimic, that is how they learn. That is why parents take care not to swear, or hit people in front of their children - so their kids don't pick up on it, and mimic the behavior. It's why sarcasm from a child can go way too far - because kids don't think the way adults do, and that is scientifically, and psychologically proven.
When you talk to a two or three year old, you could get a story that is true, but from a long time ago, true, but that just happened, or absolutely made up and fictional...but to the child ALL of it is real, immediate, and tangible. There is no distinction between reality and fiction, or even time, past or present or future.
What they see, they absorb, and what they absorb prior to the age of five stays with them and becomes part of their core character. So, you MUST be careful not to let them absorb anything tat would hurt their ability to filter out proper information.
-
-
I think a lot of the problems with kids can be solved by giving them a Harry Potter book instead of feeding them Ritalin; it'll give em a good imagination at the least. What pisses me off more than anything is religious whiners who scream that harry potter is garbage...But then gripe about how there's too many problems in the world with everyone else. You know, When I was locked up in foster care and being looked after by those same christian nutcases, they wouldn't let me read stephen king or dean koontz and it really annoyed me off to no end. Their claims were completely unfounded, even said that reading a book was causing insomnia and stories too bizarre for me to remember.
You'll understand when I say that my views on religion are very cloudy and almost border on apathetic.
Oh, we even have "Banned Books Month" celebrated by every library here. They post the lists and put the books on display and even recommend them to people, hoping someone will pay attention and take an interest. The Tom Sawyer books are still on that list, and I read them all back in 5th grade.-
Alan (who, now that I think about it, hasn't been seen here for a while) did some great posts during Banned Book Week this year: libdrone.info/categories/features/banned-books-week/
-
-
very good idea -
I don't really see a point to age banding, honestly. I mean, I like the notion of giving and age appropriate guidance - just as a reference, say, in the book store sections (baby, pre-school, adolescent, teen, adult) but not actual ages on the books. You know, just so you aren't wandering around the bookstore going where the hell are the books for toddlers....?
Other than that, ratings on movies, ratings on books, it doesn't stop kids from watching or reading, nor does it stop parents from allowing them to watch or read.
I don't however, see how it would be "damaging" to the author's books, or kids though. Either the parents are proactive and would investigate the books before hand, or they aren't, and probably wouldn't even notice the rating anyway.
Just my two cents. -
Horrible idea. I am an independent rep for a chldren's book publisher. We had a series of books come out that had appropriate age levels on them. Well guess what - kids who needed to be reading those types of books at that reading level wouldn't be caught dead with a book that said for ages 6-7 on it. This would be a detriment to those kids who are at lower reading levels. Also, parents would buy books based on age level instead of reading level for thier kids. Reading levels are not based on the child's age! When are people going to wake up and realize that all kids are different and learn differently.
Oh, and by the way, the age levels have been taken off the books by my publisher.-
I agree--it can go the other way very quickly. -
Interesting, do you know if the age marking had any effect on sales? And why did your publisher remove them?
-
You make a great point. I work at a library & I can see some potentially negative effects of this, myself. Of course, in our state, the local schools posts lists of age-appropriate reading materials on their websites (which can be accessed from here at the library, if need be.) They're just guidelines, of course, & I'd hate to thing of some of our better, younger readers being pigeonholed by some publisher's rating system.
-
-
Does that even work, I was never censored as a child? I read everything I was interested in. -
There were lots of complaints in the field. Reps noticed that kids would pick up a book, LOVE the book, and then when they saw the ages printed on it, they'd put it back. Granted the book was right at their reading level and a subject they enjoyed.
Media specialists at the schools also didn't like it cause there are so many kids who are so far below the reading level for their grade. Lots of 5th graders need to be reading books that are designed for a 1st grade reading level.
Another thing that amazes me!!! I have high schools that purchase books that are intended for 4th and 5th graders! So many kids are being sent up to the next grade without ever being able to read at that grade level and the grade level before that even.
We need to get these kids reading without feeling bad about themselves.
Also, there is nothing wrong with picking up a book that is below your reading level to read for pure enjoyment.-
"Also, there is nothing wrong with picking up a book that is below your reading level to read for pure enjoyment."
I do it all of the time. Right now I'm rereading Piers Anthony's Incarnations of Immortality series, and his writing is definitely below my normal level. By that, I mean that he tends to be a bit prudish and prone to puns. His concepts, however, are intriguing, which is why I bought them all in the first place.
-
-
Why?
It's not like there is bad stuff in kids books.
Maybe for the older ages, but for kid's books?
Personally - I don't see the point.
It's not like a 2 yo is going to pick up a Harry Potter book and go - "Oh my!"
"Tisk, tisk. Too much violence."
lol-
A two-year-old, no. But it's not at all unusual for a child's reading level to be entirely unrelated to his/her age, and even at the same physical age children mature emotionally at different paces.
-
Exactly!
Good point.
Will this mean that a 5th grader with a 7th grade reading level will only be able to read 5th grade books?
Just another way to prevent growth.
I think!
I say - If a 5th grader can read Shakespeare, then let him.
Why limit them? -
Right now I'm reading punky "Johnathan Livingston Seagull" and it has been well received!
-
I went into a book store recently and in the kids book section was a series of books about being in adult situations with vampires.It was not in the teen section it was in the kids section. The book was very graphic. -
We've been doing a set of EB White, which has been well-received, but the Narnia series has foundered on its own metaphors. I think I'm going to pick up some of the Oz books and see how they like those.
-
-
Are the restrictions set by reading level or content? Can a good reader read another book on the same level on another topic? Is it like the warnings on video games and music?
-
This makes me recall being in elementary school, and being in that library and knowing I could take out any book that pleased me. It seemed simply amazing. And as a result, I worked my way through quite a few sections.
I would have hated to have been limited in my choice by some color code.-
Our library was restricted though, to age appropriate material.
And we did have sections by grade and age - it just wasn't something to "enforce" but rather a suggestion. -
You know, I don't think ours was set up by grade and age... Or if it was, I never paid attention.
-
The only reason I remember that is because I got to go back to the school as an adult
I DO remember vividly though, a little room off in the corner that was set up specifically for the youngest grades - K-1 I think, where they had "reading time" and the entire class would go to have stories read to them. I remember that was fun. -
It's funny how small and low everything is when you visit your grade school as an adult. The water fountains look like they're for Smurfs!
-
And you get your rear-end stuck in the chair and desk combos LOL!
-
-
They are almost kind of doing this in the schools right now wtih the accelerated reader program. Kids have to read certain books (on their reading level) and then take a test on it. So kids usually only end up reading AR books that is on their level. (I've heard media specialists tell kids to put books back on the shelf and a pick a different one cause it wasn't on their level - the poor kids just wanted to read a book!) The joy of reading is being taken away from kids nowadays cause they are so caught up on acruing AR points. My nephew, and I know lots of other kids, never read a book unless it's an AR book. That's so sad. We homeschool so my kids get to read anything they want.
-
The joy and adventure of learning has been killed by the big bad school system in general
Reason number whatever thousand of why I'm homeschooling
-
Add Your Comment
Login to leave a message.
