Discussions
Appropriate Clothing for Work
Posted by faithsju243 • 7/10/08 • Subscribe to this Discussion [RSS] • Report This Topic
Topics: clothes, men and work, sexual harrassment, what to wear, women and work, work
How much is too much cleavage for work?
Recently I was reading an old issue of Glamour and I ran across an article about work appropriate attire. Two women from opposite side of the spectrum (I don't mean flat chest vs dolly partons) sound off on what is right and wrong to wear to work.
So the question is how much is too much?
Is it distracting for co-workers?
Does it promote sexual harassment in the work place?
User Comments
-
I think any woman who has any awareness about herself and the message she sends will know the answer to that. I believe only in certain work environments that cleavage should be acceptable. I'd say the "peekaboo cleavage" is the best if any in a work environment.
Is it a distraction? I believe for both men and women it can be.
Does it promote sexual harassment? that really depends on the workplace and your co-workers. -
It honestly depends on your position within the company. When I worked as an executive assistant, and dealt with very important and high up clients and exeuctives all day; it was unspoken but appriciated when I dressed just slightly more provocatively. A little cleavage, a pencil skirt with a modest split, earring that brought the eye up, bright colors. Nothing over the top but just enough to make the mostly-male clients and execs feel "at ease". However in a director or exec position I would personally like to be taken more seriously and probably wouldn't do that if I were not an assistant. -
It depends on where you work and what is acceptable in your work place.-
@Elaine
Exactly.
-
-
I used to work with this girl, also an accountant. She used to wear really low cut shirts. She was just as sweet as she could be, but it was one of those things that draws your eyes in like a magnet, and I wished she would cover up, lol. -
I don't believe how you dress promotes sexual harassment. Either you are in a woman friendly environment or you are not. I believe in a time and place to be sexual and I don't agree that work is that place. You want to feel sexy throw a thong on under your clothing but your outward appearance should be professional at all times. -
I really don't have an opinion, but keep in mind it wasn't long ago to see ads like this in magazines:
Anyways, the rights for women movement took a very long time and obviously it isn't over. I blame the media and tv for making women look like nothing but sex objects, incapable of being anything other then that. It's more popular to be on "Girls Gone Wild" then to be a medical doctor, thats for sure.
I could rant on and on, but meh. No one listens to me anyway.-
Damn River - those ads...Grrrr....
-
Here's a little story that explains how it "Used to be" and probably still is among traditional-yet-questionable families. I'll be brief, I promise.
My grandfather married my grandmother when she was very young and she was the housewife. It was nothing but pain and misery for 30 years, too. My aunt (Their daughter) told me more than enough horror stories to make me upset and just hope that generation is finally over and done with. He was a corrupt high-school guidance counselor and she just...took care of everything and depended on him.
Fast forward to when she finally divorced him because he cheated on her...He was forced to pay her money every month and give her the house. After about 15 years of giving her money, he decided he didn't want to anymore so he cried poverty (Buying a house usually does make people have less expenses) and the judge bought it.
What does my grandma do? She's still in the house, refuses to sell it (She's sitting on about $300,000 just for the property) and drives my aunt absolutely crazy.
The psychological reason behind it? You don't want to know, but be happy that you aren't her. There's a lot I didn't mention about this story, but the point is that it wasn't long ago that it was accepted belief a woman's place was in the household...The part about this belief system is that they didn't know or care what happens when the family eventually divorces. The reality is that they end up shattering their families and everyone else around them.
In my family, the women are treated like TRASH. I mean, they are just Garbage to guys like my dad and my grandpa. The part that doesn't surprise me i they're both also masters of manipulation. Seriously, my dad is....46 i think..and his girlfriend (I'm sorry, they're getting married soon and I wasn't invited, but I still found out) is just a little bit older than me, and I'm 26. -
It's funny, I grew up in a totally opposite household. My great Grandmother was the head of the family - and that was that.
Matriarchal, all the way. -
River, that story isn't about gender roles--it's about people behaving inappropriately without regard to their sex. -
That's how it is now, Anok. He remarried to the first one he met, and she's a battle-axe.
Doesn't mean he doesn't try to live up to his old behaviors though. He tried to interfere with her daughter's wedding (Same as he did with my aunt some 20 years ago).
When I picture your grandmother, I envision a tough looking woman wearing a bandanna, holding a wooden rolling pin in her fist...Just waiting for a reason to use it. Now that's the way to make change for a generation
And no MadameX. Normally I don't respond to your neverending contradicting replies (You think I didn't notice?) but he kept her around for sex and because he didn't want to take responsibility. Consider it a position of power over someone weaker, if you will. That's gender-based. It was common practice back in his day to live like that. Now leave me alone. -
I agree with madam x. The women in my family, going back generations were not treated like that. Not all men are like that either. -
Can you clarify for me, River? Am I just not allowed to respond directly to you, or may I not comment on anything related to what you've said? Can I comment in threads that you've been in, or are they off limits once you've staked your claim? And from whence derives your authority?
-
In River's defense - women had it rough, and although you speak of men behaving badly and it has nothing to do with gender - we all know that women were regarded as the weaker sex, and were often preyed upon by husbands who felt it was their right to do as they pleased.
That is gender based - and women like my family, and DM's family - were the exception to the rule.
River, My Great Grandmother was a rum runner, and a gin joint gal
-
I dunno if that's necessarily true ... I mean ... back before the industrial age, men and women worked the home/farm and it was more equal than we all want to think it was.
Of course it needed change, I'm not saying that ... but abuse is abuse ... and you can't blame it on the "times". The type of thing he's talking about was still in the minority ... the good thing about today is that it's not hidden as much anymore, and there are laws to protect people. -
It's just a repeat pattern for you. About a month ago or so, I looked over some of my past postings. Over and over I noticed you had a squawk about something, anything, just to have the last word.
So no, I'm not talking to you anymore. You're free to leave whatever reply you want, since the internet is public for all. I won't report it or whine about it or even read it past the first line. But this is the last time I'm replying directly to you. -
Oh river ... she does that to everyone, LOL. You're not special! That's just Madame X. And actually, she quite often brings up a lot of really good points.
-
Um...Drowsey...thanks...I think...kind of.
-
Mmmm, I'm going to say that historically speaking collaborative work between men and women - and matriarchal families were rare. Women were property - plain and simple. They had no rights what-so-ever, and I'm not saying all men beat their wives...but it was common.
They had no legal recourse - in fact in midevil and puritanical times there was a device created to "hush" and humiliate wives that "nagged" their husband. I forget the name of it, but it was a jagged steel contraption that went over the woman's head - complete with wooden or metal gag, and often times included sensory deprivation (such as blocking vision or hearing) or even more torturous and painful devices, such as clanking metal near the ears so as to cause great pain.
Women could easily asphyxiate on the gag, and the weight of the mask was very heavy, and they were often jagged and cut from the material. They were then paraded around the town in front of everyone in the mask - while others threw things at her.
I'm going to go ahead and say that women had a very, very hard life until feminism came into play. -
@MadamX - hey, anytime I can help out, lol.
Anok - yes, I agree that feminism certainly made things better. -
Yikes! Great finds with those ads -- wow. Kinda like the Flintstones selling cigarettes ones from the sixties - but sexist. -
feminism made women that much more sexier to me!!! And I do not care if I am considered a pig for saying that (sticking my tongue)
-
-
Depends on where you work.
-
This is what we need to remember and never forget. When young women say that feminism is not not necessary this is what a world without feminism looks like.
-
Depends on the workplace. I work in an office ... and in my opinion we don't need cleavage in the office. Grow up.
-
What does your work attire have to do with growing up?
-
Just guessing, Anok, but I'd say that a person who has even a modicum of maturity (or security) and the ability to focus on what she's in the office for doesn't need to dress in a way that deliberately invites attention to her breasts at work.
-
I meant that I know a lot of young women who complain about this sort of thing, I find them tiresome. I was thinking of a professional environment ... in that environment if you want to be taken seriously you dress for the occasion. As boring as that may be ... that means suit & tie for men, suit or something equivalent for women. It doesn't mean that men come to work in spandex t-shirts or with the buttons of their shirts open half way down their chest, and it doesn't mean women flash cleavage.
Obviously this depends on the workplace, in some places it's perfectly fine and not an issue. I was thinking about my own situation & experiences in corporate/government environments.
edit - and what madame x just said. -
Yes, but with the exception of the truly outrageous outfit (and they are out there) - even business professional attire for women can be very, very sexy.
I don't think that what one chooses for attire reflects on maturity - but rather how they wear it.
If you have a woman who is wearing something low cut (or simply has a deep v neck or some other such fashion) and simply works hard and goes about business as usual - what is immature about it?
If you have the same woman flaunting it and flirting and acting stupid...well OK, that's immature
I mean, anything that isn't buttoned right up to the collar and slightly loose will direct attention to the breasts - when one is around immature men, that is. -
If you're a waitress, obviously more cleavage is going to help out with the tips. In an office, it's probably not necessary. -
Well, we'll have to just disagree on the maturity issue. It's been my experience that these women are childlike ... that's a trait I find intolerable in an office whether it's from a man or woman. I chose not to have children in my real life and I detest having to go into the work place and parent a bunch of adults who should know better.
Ahhh... rant over. I feel better now. -
Anok, that seems to assume that people choose clothing randomly, and without any thought to how they will look or what impression they'll make...I think that's rarely true. Generally, if someone chooses clothing that accentuates certain body parts (especially on a consistent basis), that's no accident. I'm not saying that one has to be careful about what she wears in the sense that you suggest here, but then I absolutely disagree that a simple button or two undone necessarily "directs attention to the breasts". Clearly, there are outfits and clothing styles DESIGNED for that purpose and purchased for that purpose and worn for that purpose, which is something entirely apart from having to button your blouse all the way up to the collar.
-
Yeah, but know better than what?
Are they incapable of choosing their own outfits?
I guess I don't see what you are talking about. I've worked with many women who dressed as they pleased - cleavage, no cleavage, sexy, librarian drab....it didn't seem to have any affect on their maturity level.
I've worked with many men too, who's maturity levels meant they they were either going to stare at a "rack" or not - regardless of what the woman was wearing.
Clothes and maturity don't really define one another.
Tiffany - sexy is in the eye of the beholder. A slightly undone blouse can be more alluring than a tight Paris Hilton style top.
We all dress to accentuate our bodies and looks. Otherwise we'd just wear potato sacks
Maturity is in the action and behavior -not the clothes. -
I'm speaking more to the culture ... the corporate culture of a place. There's usually a trend ... I've obviously worked in places where business like attire was the norm. So when some young guy comes in and doesn't see why he can't wear his Birkenstock's to work instead of loafers ... sigh ... give me a break, that's immaturity. Or maybe it's not immaturity afterall, it's just a lack of common sense.
-
True, Anok, that it's in the eye of the beholder...but a woman who wears a slighly undone blouse probably hasn't done so in hopes of arousing any strange man that she meets. A woman who choose to wear a spandex blouse with a plunging neckline to work probably has.
-
OK, DM, I get what you're saying now. I wasn't understanding before.
Tiffany - I agree that there is a line, but there is so much in between!
-
-
I teach hormone ridden teenage boys for a living, I can't show cleveage, and when I do wear a skirt holy hell they go nuts....-
lmao I hope you don't go commando under your skirts, Kat!
-
-
Interesting discussion. Having a tough time formulating my thoughts here so this is a bit of a ramble:
I actually pay quite a bit more professional attention to women who are attractive in the office. Realize of course that "attractive" means quite a bit more than just showing cleavage. That being said, I've seen women who use this to their advantage quite successfully when dealing with men. In other words, it can sometimes be a two way street.
There's a lot of weird dynamics in offices when it comes to egos and power plays. The whole thing gets a bit Neanderthalic at times.
The thing is, I'm more of a leg guy than a breast guy, so a woman dressed more "conservatively" actually is sometimes an even bigger stimulus/distraction for me than someone showing cleavage.
Skirts (even tasteful ones) are my weakpoint. My wife used to even have a collection she called "Kevin killers" when we first met because they were sure to drive me batty. -
I'm a teacher. Zero cleavage here! Also not much shoulder either....our tank tops have to be at least 3 inches wide on the shoulder. It's hard to find one that is appropriate. It gets 115-117 degress here some days.
smiles,
Kathy
www.kathymartinstudio.blogspot.com
Add Your Comment
Login to leave a message.
