Discussions
Are University Degrees Worth Having?
Posted by reasonablerobinson • 3/14/08 • Subscribe to this Discussion [RSS] • Report This Topic
Tags: college degrees, higher education, university degrees
So what's the point of higher education? Who benefits? how do they benefit? Is a University just a 'certificate factory' label slapping inferior goods?
User Comments
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here in india you get better job /promotion if you have degrees.
And yes degrees does not really mean that person is really knowledgeable and competent for the job but degrees are given very high importance here.-
wow...you've transformed into a rabbit
we'll have a digital zoo here soon
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Interesting...do you think there is a cultural difference in what is expected of a lecturer? Teacher or Facilitator?
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I think they are wonderful if you want a career that really requires one.
I think they are an absolute waste of time for everyone else and are a diversion from life and are a great form of procrastination. And in many cases these days anmd degrees are not worth the paper they are written on.-
I wonder if the're a bit like car...nice to have but not ncessary and it all depends on the driver as to how they driven?
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Most of the ten richest people in Australia don't have a university degrees. What does that tell you?
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err...that the 10 richest people don't have a degree?
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Teaching quality here is not so good due to lack of time and exam specific preparations.Though it is good in some private institutions.
From the inputs i have from UK and U.S. , i think teaching there is easy ,more specific to the topic , but lot of paper work for teacher and they can not take any strict action on students who are not performing well. -
there is joke in my place like this:
even you got degree, your place is in the kitchen.-refer to married women
even you got degree, your job is look after your kid.-refer to married women
education is a must. not because of level or salary but more than that is to civilized people.
we may heard about farmer(no certificate) became millionaire. -
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hilarious
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HAHAHAH... that's freaking hilarious. Thanks, that just made my day.
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They are an entrance card for my career. You basically can't really get anywhere without one. -
I worked really hard to get a degree and a Masters. Do I use it? No. Has it helped me in starting and running my own business? No. Did I love doing it? Yes. Would I have done it any other way? No.
It did give me a lot of skills - critical thinking, research, academic writing - and I wouldn't really know whether I would have got to where I am now if I didn't have it but as for a necessity? I don't think so. acousticguitarist, your point about the top 10 richest people is correct here in the UK as well. Most of the most successful people I know never went to university.-
I thinks that's the point - a utilitarian expectation except for technical roles is often ill concieved - doing it for yourself is a great reason!
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Well I'd prefer of my doctor has a university degree. I also believe it could benefit me that my lawyer has proved himself capable in schooling and in courts that he understands the law, and all the small loopholes which could benefit me.
Most degrees don't really account for much, but they do account for persistence, endurance, drive, hard work, etc. A degree also means you get a higher paycheck which is like totally SWEET!-
yep should correlate to higher paycheck...but does it?
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A degree in US is higly valued. Persons with Masters or Doctoral degrees rise fast and make a lot more money.
My blog is all about higher education.-
or they are over-qualified for everything and can't get a job ....
(still, i don't regret either the undergrad or grad degrees i have)
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Depends on the person, the degree, and the program. In general, yes, but there is no one-size-fits-all answer to this question.
Done right, college can really hone your learning skills, which these days most of us need, since we constantly have to reinvent ourselves in an ever-changing job market.
I usually see a big difference in critical thinking and writing skills among college graduates, though there are negative exceptions among the college graduates and positive exceptions among those who never went to college.
Of course, many jobs require formal qualifications, as some have pointed out above. Most kinds of knowledge work require at least a BA these days.
I think these remarks apply to most any society these days, though I'm looking at the issue from a US perspective. -
I think whether it's "worth having" is really two separate questions: is it beneficial in terms of employment opportunities and income, and do you really gain knowledge and skills in the process of obtaining one.
As to the second question, I agree entirely with Mark. It is possible to learn a great deal and to really develop analytical, research, writing, presentation, etc. skills in college. It is equally possible to obtain a degree without learning a useful thing. The distinction, I think, has more to do with the student than the institution.
On the first, though, it seems to be a job requirement (at least in the U.S.) for a large number of jobs that don't necessarily practically relate to the degree earned. For instance, many fast food chains require their managers to have bachelor's degrees. It could be in anything--art history, sociology, biotechnology--but it must be a four year degree.
I have also found that degrees (at least, advanced degrees) open doors that don't seem directly relevant. For instance, when I first went into writing with an eye toward making money instead of just filling up my desk drawers, I was able to talk my way into a number of opportunities despite not meeting the technical "requirements". My impression was often that the decision-maker felt that my law degree was evidence of something, though it wasn't directly related to the task at hand. Whether that something was intelligent, teachability, tenacity, or simply a willingness to spend a lot of time and money achieving something I don't know, but it definitely made a difference.-
A critical eye on the question ---- excellent
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It is the exception, not the norm, for a person to make a boatload of money without a college degree (ex: Bill Gates and Larry Ellison).
Do I think college guarantees success or successful careers? No. Many other variables are at work (forgive pun), including but not limited to: the economy and job market, one's social network (get www.linkedin.com), critical thinking skills, plain smarts, hard work, oral and written skills, ability to reinvent one's self, & perseverance.
For those unemployed or seeking employment, my advice: continue to learn and use the time to reinvent yourself. Take risks AND enjoy your free time.-
Good advice - don't get into debt learning!
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As per Madame X - we'd add that it depends on application and how hands on to reality they are.....often too technical and too removed from what the world requires....
EMOTIONAL INTELLIGENCE!-
Hmmm a transformational leadership concept predicated on the traits and styles approach to leadership...another interesting account is given by Keith Grint in the Arts of Leadership
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I think it depends on the career you want to have. If you need a degree to get into the field you want to.. then it's not worthless. But you shouldn't go to college to "just get a degree" or because you aren't sure what you want to do in life so use college as a way to procrastinate making that decision. I have friends who have been students almost all their adult life and I do wonder if at times if they are prolonging the inevitable or if they really just love the student life. I also remember meeting an Economics Ph.D graduate and he had hard time finding a job because he was overqualifed.
So no, college isn't an end all and be all. Work experiences can be just as useful and powerful. I do believe that a college diploma can open doors in certain situtations but if you have passion and knowledge and drive to succeed. A piece of paper doesn't mean a thing.-
I agree I think 'academic' learning is just one strand of personal development!
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It is if you need it to get you a job. If not, who cares. it's like a marriage certificate. -
seems like a waste of time to me. an apprenticeship is the way to go. trust me -- very soon all the good jobs are going to be blue-collar. the IT labour market is very flooded -- wages are only going to go down. blue-collar infrastructural jobs (construction, transportation, etc) can't be of-shored to the Third World and has a smaller labour pool - resulting in higher wages.as for the service industry...-
My lad is an electrician...no debt ...job satisfaction...and smart...wouldn't know a Five Forces Analysis or a Relationship Marketing concept if it hit him on the head yet knows his competitors and how to look after his customers...as for 'what is truth' and other philosophical musings...it would be hard to pull the wool over eyes... maybe thats because he's inherited his Dad's academic leanings??
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Philosophy? All you need is a library card.
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I guess that depends on what is meant by 'library' 'card' and 'library card' and whether they are ontologically real or social constructions?
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I am a HUGE fan of the public library. It's probably the next best thing to sliced bread.
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Yeah, public libraries are great.
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depends on what you mean by 'public'
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It depends on what you want. Having a degree doesn't make you more worthy or a smarter person than someone who doesn't have a degree ... and no amount of education can give you common sense.
I went back to university full-time in my 30s, got my degree and am very happy that I did. It was an amazing experience and if I could go back full-time again, I would. It didn't change a lot in my profession, a little, but not a lot. But it made a huge difference to me personally.-
I have a lot of students in my classroom who go back after ten years or more of work. Some are only there for the degree, but others seem to appreciate being able to do this again. They seem to understand how lucky they are and how enriching the experience can be. Makes the class more fun.
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I can relate to that. I finished my own formal education "late." But more to the point was what I observed when I was teaching at the university level. I taught the same courses in both the regular daytime classes, and the evening division. On the whole, I found that teaching evening classes was much more interesting and rewarding to me, because of the students themselves.
Many of the students in the daytime classes seemed poorly motivated -- as if they were at university mostly because it was expected of them as the next thing to do after high school. Many took particular classes just because they were required, or because they needed a certain number of credits in the field, not because they were truly interested in the subject matter.
Most of the evening students I taught were 'mature' people who had been out in the world for awhile. Most had day jobs, and families, and it was quite a sacrifice for them to attend classes and find the time to study. Yet they were really engaged with their studies, they participated readily and well in class discussions, and they had a lot to offer to those discussions due to their life experience. Most of them did very well, scholastically.
There were exceptions, of course. There were a number of motivated day students who were interested -- and interesting. As well, a few of the evening students were laggards, compared to the rest. I only taught for a few semesters, but I have always said that if I ever returned to teaching, I would much prefer to teach adult students like those in my evening classes.
In sum, in regard to the initial question about the worth of university degrees (and formal education in general), I'd say, "You get out of it what you put into it." -
yep - i reckon the process of taking a degree can add to personal development more than simply the content of the course
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I am in the same boat. I started as a college student right out of high school but I wasn't really sure what I wanted to do. So I left school (actually got kicked out) after 2 1/2 years and changing my major at least five times. After about 10 years of working. I am going to be a returning student and I have a direction on what career path I want to take. (I want to get into medicine which most requires a degree)
I do think you do appreciate school more as an older student. Don't get me wrong, I had a blast the first two years of college and met some great friends who I am still in touch with today but I don't think I was emotionally ready to be a college student right out of high school. I am definitely going to take my studies more seriously this time around. -
I went back to grad school after years away from college, as did many in my grad program. As such, by the time we returned, we were all mid-level managers (& one was an optometrist) and learned much from each other and our real world experience (theory and application are quite different!).
There is a great benefit to waiting, including a sincere desire to learn versus just getting the degree.
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Depends what you do with it.
I think it is definitely worthwhile if you are embarkign on a career in the engineering sciences.
It is not that essential if you want to start your own business or become a writer, but it will help you to polish the rough edges.-
Totally concur with this!
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In Singapore, if one does not have a university degree, he is deem to be lazy or stupid. A lot of people do not see pass this. A couple needs to have the same qualifications to be a perfect match. Or the woman should have lower qualification than the man. To many of you here it may sound ridiculous, but let me assure you that all these are social norm in my so called modern society in my home country. People who have years of practical skills (chefs, electricians, etc) are not highly regarded in the society unless one has gained international recognition.
Sad but true.-
Elitism will take a lot to die.
" The denigration of manual labor is a long, sad, captivating story of human civilization. No community can survive, let alone prosper, without the manual labor of farmers, industrial employees, construction workers, miners, and innumerable other men and women who toil to make everyone's day-to-day life possible. Yet a deeply entrenched prejudice against manual labor persists."
papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=936890
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Well, let's see. Before I went to university I was making $16,000 working in a bank. Now I make over 5 times that working as a teacher. So, for me, it's been worth it. If you have good business sense (I'm thinking Donald Trump here) and are a risk-taker (not me) then you can do whatever you want without a degree.
Experience counts for a great deal in some careers.
I'll never be a millionaire but I'm comfortable.
Hazelnut-
The concepts, knowledge and techniques of a profession and the researching structuring and synthesisng capabilities of a highly qualified learner are definitely some of the more significant of a degree level qualification.
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Good topic! Yes, I think it's worth especially for your first job. If you don't have 4 year degree or above, they don't even give you a chance to do the interview. 4 year degree is the min requirement for most of the companies. I do hiring very often. I filter out all resumes don't have 4 year degree. I'm sure there are alot of good talents out there who don't have 4 year degree. But, they have work much harder to get up there comparing those who have 4+ year degree. This is also the applied to promotion....etc-
Excellent point - in many organisations the level of qualification is the first 'coarse' screen of the CV. Also it reduces the risks in time presured selection. It is safe to assume that someone with a degree is operating at te high of Blooms taxonomy.
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Degrees are of some use, having said that degrees in media studies, flower arranging, klingon (seriously - Manchester Uni, UK I believe - hmmm. Not really high brow education.
Degrees are of value if backed with vocational experience.-
yes ! garbage, superpowers and zombies too - see gullibility.blogspot.com/2007/11/college-courses-now-garbage-kryptonite_03....
other commentary includes:
gullibility.blogspot.com/2007/07/advantages-and-disadvantages-of.html
gullibility.blogspot.com/2008/03/does-education-make-you-gullible.html
The tension between 'cerebral academia' 'high science' and 'narrow vocationalism' is a right conundrum and your perspective will be based on definition of ned and philosophical view point.
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The Vice-president of my ex- job said to me once, i got out of the university when i was 26 year old when all my friend were all ready graduate, but i study all that i can and i did couple of degrees and it got me where i am right now. You can get to a better position faster with a degrees; is more easy give to give you a promotion to you to one that have been in the company couple of years that you.-
Interesting an ex boss of mine took me one side and said..don't bother putting your qualifactions on your business card...it looks arrogant and anyway people buy 'you' not what you claim to be ...interesting...non of my colleagues at that time had university educations.
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