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Are you an atheist?
Posted by footiam • 4/01/09 • Subscribe to this Discussion [RSS] • Report This Topic
Topics: atheist, beliefs, God, religion
If it is not God, then what it is you believe in?
User Comments
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Yes, and nothing mainstream. -
Passive non-believer. Why do I have to believe in anything?
I just never think about it in my daily life. I think I'm doing fine without it. But I don't mind if other people around me have religion in their lives. I think that's great for them.-
I'm a freethinker. www.ornaross.com/freethinking/2008/12/how-free-is-your-thinking/ -
Llive and let live!
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Let's just respect each other!
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Why is it that people so often assume if you don't believe in god, you must believe in 'something'? Just because believers fill a gap with their religion, it doesn't by defenition mean that we none believers have a gap we need to fill.-
Excellent point. I am particularly annoyed with those of this mindset who have decided to classify atheism as a religion. What part of "don't believe" do they not understand? -
ditto! ditto! and ditto! -
IMO Christians do understand that atheists do not have a religion of any kind alright. Their latest tactic is to aim to discredit and demonize atheists by pretending they all belong to some mythical congregation.
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I'm a securlist.-
WEll I hope you aren't of the belief that it is a organized group of atheists as one man I met recently believed, ahem!!!!
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sorry.. triple post..
damn -
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I am an atheist.. and I would like to ask you(OP) something:
Are you a teetotaler? If it is not alcohol, then what is it that you are into?-
love it!
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I believe in myself, and in what I do to others. -
No thank you....
I still believe the power of GOD...
are you...?-
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That's some spicy Engrish right there.
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If you have a particular faith or religion, that is good. But you can survive without it.
Dalai Lama -
no, but I am glad we all can be what we choose -
I'm a Agnostic Nontheist -
Yeah, I'm a Aethiest baby-eater.
I never said I believed in anything other than drugs and beer. I believe after you die it's kinda like when you sleep but don't remember the dream.. I could use the rest. -
No, not an athiest but I don't believe in religion either. I have respect for other beliefs and the religion I grew up with didn't allow for respect of others beliefs.-
I think it is sad that there are religions that don't respect others. It tells so much about religions and why some people shun them.
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Yes, I am an atheist in that I reject the theistic claim that a god exist. I also happen to believe that there were natural means to the formation of the universe, I believe purpose is subjective, I believe we are subject to the natural phenomenon of causality and do not have free-will. I believe my beliefs were determined by environmental influences. I believe people are intrinsically selfish and this serves their instinct for self-preservation. I believe people are relatively egotistic, over-value hedonism, and are motived to limit their pain as much as possible. I believe shit happens, then you die.-
you don't think that suicide is a product of one's free will? when a japanese man kills himself to rid himself of shame, you don't think he ever had a choice to live with that shame? -
His choice was conditioned by his environment. It's called causality.
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archiegottlieb, I don't think anything is a product of free-will because I don't believe we have free-will. I beleive we are moved by causality. As Vooddoo said, I believe he was conditioned by his environment and this conditioning, this programming, determined him to commit suicide.
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in response to voodoo, then you'd agree that you can't very well call it a "choice" if it's already conditioned and determined?
to morgan, i'm curious then, how do you think causality is motivated if it can't be explained in terms of those involved acting on their circumstances? -
Morgan, what about when a person chooses to go against society's conditioning? Such as someone who is expected to commit suicide but decides not to. -
Their decision to apparently resist their conditioning is the result of their experiences, and is still a part of their conditioning.
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i'm not sure how one can claim causality to be the underlying principle of one's existence, especially since we can only believe it to be so when looking back to the past. in that moment of reminiscence, there is a likely possibility of imposing a category of causality in order to explain one's present condition, but it doesn't necessarily serve as a sufficient explanation for believing the conceived cause to be really the cause at all.
causality is relatively slippery, in my opinion, since it only makes sense when looking back, yet at the same time fails when applied to the future. if causality indeed governs our existence, then surely we can develop some kind of system in order to avoid the, as you tersely phrased it, "shit [that] happens." -
jflower36 said, "what about when a person chooses to go against society's conditioning? Such as someone who is expected to commit suicide but decides not to"
You assume they have a choice to go against causality, against being conditioned. One cannot go against causality or being conditioned, to do so would also be a result of causality and from being conditioned. You would have been conditioned to attempt to go against being conditioned. But of course even this action is a result of being conditioned by your experiences and environment.
Any attempt to break free from the causal deterministic environment was caused by it. To do so would only be doing as it has dictated still. -
archiegottlieb said, "how do you think causality is motivated if it can't be explained in terms of those involved acting on their circumstances?"
Cause and effect. Ones circumstances determines ones actions. They think they have choices but they are not choices at all, they are only conditions that contribute to determining the path you do take. -
morgan, what are your responses to my other statements?
causality as you've meagerly and unconvincingly explained it is nothing but a symptom of reminiscence, that is, of creating a "narrative" out of one's past experience. this is the "story" of humanity that you're describing, but the creation of this "story" is precisely a fact of one's desire to create ostensible order as a way of assuaging the potential, inherent, and indeterminable chaos of existence. if causality was the key, then why can't we predict the future in absolutes? if everything was governed by cause and effect, then why does "shit happen"? why can't we prevent death if we know that the effect of our actions will indeed cause it?
if you are immortal, that would explain everything.
and by the way, please learn to use apostrophes and conjugate your verbs accordingly. if these mistakes are a product of your environment and conditioning, then i suggest you undertake knowing the cause in order to prevent its incoherent effects. you obfuscate simple ideas by writing incomprehensibly. don't take offense, this is a friendly advice. -
archiegottlieb, Your statements reflect an ignorance of what causality is. I suggest you read a bit on it. Most of your questions can be answered with just a basic understanding of what causality is in the first place. Don't take offense, this is a friendly advice.
Start here - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causality
We can't predict future events with 100% accuracy because we are unable to determine and measure all the variables that will "cause" particular effects.
But it is also causality that allows us to make any predictions at all with any level of accuracy. Without causality, if everything was random, we wouldn't be able to predict anything and "know" anything. It is because of causality that we can make predictions. -
none taken. but to be quite honest, i'm not all too certain that you yourself know what you're arguing for, so i suggest you read your own dubious wikipedia article and reconsider your vapid and self-contradicting statements. if when predicting you don't achieve 100% accuracy each time, then that means your imposed scheme of cause and effect fails to hold up. the term "variables" is just another way of admitting that forging a link between one variable cause with another effect is an arbitrary practice. causality is just a way of trying to lay blame on other things for your own faults. it's cowardly to deny the existence of responsibility.
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archiegottlieb said, "but to be quite honest..."
So does that mean that you usually are not honest?
archiegottlieb said, "it's cowardly to deny the existence of responsibility."
That is a logical fallacy, specifically an appeal to consequences. Just because you don't like the consequences that causality implies doesn't disprove its verity. Also, it is dishonest of you to deny causality.
I am not new to the "no free-will" debate, but your comments reflect that you are and that you don't quite understand the argument to begin with. I suggest you read:
Free-will I - richarddawkins.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=44225 1418 comments
Free-will II - richarddawkins.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=61595 999 comments
Free-will III - richarddawkins.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=623 999 comments
Free-will IV - richarddawkins.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=68411 961 comments
I participated in all four of those threads, as well as numerous other debates on the topic. And in each case, free-will comes up 0, and causality 1+. But I am not going to explain the basics to you. Come back when you are up to speed with what I am even talking about. -
LOL! can you actually suggest anything of worth reading, something that isn't someone's spontaneous opinion? the reason why i refuse to believe anything you say is mostly because of the above and because you think your participation in other threads qualifies your faulty assertions. the fact that you've yet to mention books written by philosophers, by academics, by scholars, in other words, by those who have actually intelligently approached the topic in recent times, makes anything you say unsound and reeking with dubiety.
"up to speed." LOL! what do you have to show that you're such an authority on the subject? online threads? hahahaha! clearly you can't write and i'm certain you have major problems reading any basic philosophical treatise. you claim to be a philosopher, but really that's just an excuse to keep ignorant about actual, topical philosophical debates going on beyond your little illiterate box.
i haven't denied causality; i have denied it as a panacea to all philosophical inquiries, which you seem to think is the case, and self-righteously might i add. i think you feel attacked because you can't broaden or specify the application of causality, which by the way you can. but with that, you'll find that it has surprising limits. you can continue relying on the cause/effect model to explain everything around you, but it isn't by all accounts the underlying principle of metaphysics.
i suggest you actually reference books instead of wikipedia articles or your participation in online debates, because then i may actually find your claims more credible. as far as i'm concerned you're just an online degenerate trying to ingratiate your ineffectual life in an imaginary world because the real world of cause and effect belittles and shuns you.
i admit though, i should know better than to respond to under-educated internet personalities with myopic views on everything. my contribution ends here. this conversation is over. little people with little brains tire me.
hear's the voice of the real world: LOL! -
[the fact that you've yet to mention books written by philosophers, by academics, by scholars, in other words, by those who have actually intelligently approached the topic in recent times, makes anything you say unsound and reeking with dubiety.]
What does it mean to be a philosopher? Having a degree in philosophy? I know people with degrees in philosophy who just cite existing philosophies and never create their own. Would they be considered an appropriate authority? -
archiegottlieb, Your Ad Hominen personal attacks wont get you far in such discussions, nor does your "argument by authority" a logical fallacy, disprove my position which you have show you lack a proper understanding of.
I suggest you listen to Philosophy Bites podcast, "Thomas Pink on Free Will" - cdn1.libsyn.com/philosophybites/PinkMixSes.mp3 which touches on my position as an incompatibilist.
Thomas holds the position of a Libertarianist but covers my position in the interview. -
@Morgan: What is causing you to make these statements right now? Are you capable, at this moment, of not making them? Can you honestly say you have no choice whether or not to participate in this discussion? -
His choice was conditioned by his environment. Cause and effect.
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Why is it an either or situation?-
Yea, false dilemma.
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No. I am a Strong believer in God and Jesus here. -
I'm an Athiest and I don't believe in anything! I believe that we live and we die then we are buried and that's it. I know that I am a good person, I treat others with kindness and respect and that is the most important thing! I'm not a bad person just because I don't believe in God!-
@crazedmama
There's no hypocrisy in honesty. Although I don't know you, I like you --- BIGTIME! I like everyone who can be good for goodness sake, without clinging to a cross or consulting an ancient text in order to determine what they ought to be thinking, feeling and/or doing. -
I like your idea! People who believe in God may not be that nice.
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i agree, there are some religious fanatics out there, who are prepared to set you on fire, literally and figuratively, for being an atheist. but i'm curious: what compels you to be kind to others? why have any sense of morality or even conviction if you are indeed a self-confessed atheist and nihilist? in other words, why defend your stance as an atheist if clearly its defense ultimately means nothing to you?
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liking the way you think.
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good point!
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My question is why does atheism matter? I can understand Christians wanting to “save souls” since that is their belief system. Do atheist want to spread atheism? I don’t think so. It would be better to let people suffer their illusions, if that makes them happy. What happiness does anyone really attain in our short lifespan? If ignorance is bliss why deny anyone his or her self-deception?-
these are really great questions. i think if atheists wanted to spread atheism then they would become no better than the irritatingly determined proselytizers that they criticize. i agree with you on many points, perhaps because of the buddhist stance i'm in want to glean from your statements.
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Yes, I believe in the scientific method. I beleive in the observations and research of the incredibly intelligent specialist who has spent copious amounts of time thinking and studying. I believe in the abilities of the human brain to put together scientific theories based on tested observations and experiences. I believe that I am the product of 16 billion years of random interactions of particles. These beliefs give me great comfort, as I believe I have an understanding of the universe around me.-
Why are you convinced it's random?
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@davedol
I am an atheist and I would like to spread atheism.
The biggest reason is to reduce the political influence of the religious organizations. And also to reduce violence and inter faith murder-
I'm with you.!
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OF COURSE I'm not atheist.-
If you felt compelled to even post in this thread at all, you must have doubts about your beliefs deep down inside.
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voodoo, i guess we can say the same thing about you and your beliefs when you posted in the ARGUE FOR YOUR BELIEF IN GOD thread. for atheists so concerned with science and causality, you'd expect some use of basic principles of logic in order to avoid contradicting yourself.
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Nah, I'm politically motivated, not motivated by doubt.
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ok...
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moved up.
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archiegottlieb, of course causality causes our present condition.
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My latest blogpost is about how I was talking to an atheist. and i really enjoyed his views cause they were so refreshing.
He doesn't believe in a belief
He only hopes.
He replaces belief with hope.
Which is quite an ideal if you were to think of it.
Cause believes can totally screw up a person's mind.
thegentle-snail.blogspot.com/2009/04/my-chit-chat-with-greg-henderson.html -
i believe in god-
You are a non-atheist!
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an a-atheist.
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New termionology.. for one who rejects religion but is not technically an atheist
an a-a-atheist
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Yes I am, Thank God.
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Me too!
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I don't know what I 'believe' in really, it always changes. I'm not religious by any means, but I do believe we are capable of unlocking so much more than what we're willing to acknowledge -
No -
I am the daughter of a preacher and have yet to make my mind up whether I believe it or not. -
"Are you an atheist?" No! I'm not a member of any organized religion.
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Atheism... organized religion? What?
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@Voodoo: Atheism as an "ism" is, to me, just another religion.
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Not really. We're not organized, we don't have a set of canonical beliefs, we don't even agree most of the time. Atheism is the lack of belief; it is only a religion in the sense that "not collecting stamps" is a hobby.
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I was being ironical, and making the same exact point you just did.
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Oh okay.
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I dont need to believe in anything in order to enjoy life! I take things as they are.. not because I think "jesus" or the "Devil" did it. When good things happen to me it's not because i prayed the night before! I think Heaven and Jesus are just make believe so that people are not afraid to die!
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So what happens after you die? -
@crazedmama: Simply and beautifully said.
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Nothing, except that the body ceases to function. It rots or it's burnt or frozen or whatever the next of kin or circumstance demand for its disposition. I'm more agnostic than atheistiic, but I do believe that when you die you're finished. I'd love to believe in reincarnation, but heaven has always sounded like a pretty dull reward and I find the whole concept of hell laughable.
I treat others the way I wish to be treated because it makes my life easier, both emotionally and physically. I feel better about myself when I do good things for others and find that people are more likely to do good things for me when they like and trust me. I need no religious stick or carrot to steer me that way. -
"Concept of hell laughable?" How do you explain human life?
I think i just heard Lucifer reserving a room for you in Motel Hellinovia ... good luck -
I find the idea that there's some evil, immortal being luring me into doing things in the hope that he can sadistically torture me for all eternity unconvincing in the extreme. What possible benefit to such a system could there possibly be to either a god or to humanity in general, that there be no possibility of redemption or rehabilitation?
What, pray tell, do you mean by "explain human life" in the absence of hell's existence? It seems to me that it's explicable exactly as it would be with hell waiting "below" to burn us all in eternal fires. Unless you would like to know how bad people will be punished in the hereafter? To that, my answer is that they won't be. -
GFG....you might want to take a look inward.
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@CrazedMama.. here's my favorite Douglas Adams quote :
Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?
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No -
no, not at all. -
Ever since I watched the video of an Englishman being beheaded by Islamic Extremists on the Internet I lost any belief in "God" and/or any kind of "Cosmic" entity.
In my early days I was a "dreamer" and did believe in such things, but I woke up!-
Sounds graphic and unnecessarily brutal. Would've sucked to have been that person.
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So a terrorist made you not believe in God? That's what woke you up??
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A terrorist beheading an Englishman. I'm pretty sure that's what m2urray said. What's your point? Some people are pushed over the edge of their own doubts by such things.
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American propaganda is just really going down hill if this was the best you could come up with.
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Who asked you? Seriously?
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Public forum....
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I'm not an atheist. I do believe in God. It's not about religion for me, but more about spirituality. I don't go to church etc. But I do believe there is more to life than what our 5 senses tell us. There is definitely a sixth sense - call it conscience, spirit, soul, whatever. Everyone is different, but for me ignoring my intangible part left a gap. And I filled it with wine! So back to basics for me. I am in AA now and the programme talks about God a lot, but only "God as we understand him" - there are people in AA who are atheist and others who are agnostic. But all still practice spirituality - keeping that invisible part of us well serviced in whatever way makes sense to us as individuals. Live and let live! I'm only sharing my own experience. Appreciate it is not for everyone.-
Beautifully said!
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I am agnostic in theory but atheist in practice. I would like to be atheist but there is no way I can disprove the existence of some kind of divine order. But I find it highly unlikely there is such an order and the world can be explained through scientific explanations. -
I'm an atheist and proud to still be able to think for myself, thank you very much. -
i believe this is God -
I don't know if I'm an athiest or not anymore.
I'm confused. -
Actually I'm agnostic. Means: I don't know and I don't care.
But if anyone tries to proselytize me, I turn athistic in no time. -
I am confused too. It is very difficult to live like an atheist... truly atheist. I have seen many so called atheist asking help to god or some unknown power.
In my blog I have written a story about an atheist, who not for him but for beloved, in a very grief situation ... well read the rest at Prayer (Prarthana) at golporkhata.blogspot.com -
I agree with Haecceities. I'm atheist in the sense that i don't actually believe in the existence of any deity as mentioned by humanity. For us to understand a god would be like a pebble describing a human. It would probably be a huge rock. But such argument doesn't prove nonexistence, and absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. -
I'm a designer-
The Intelligent Designer?
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No. -
I have no religion and I have never belonged to any religious organization before. But I believe in God. God is the ruler of the natural law, which is perfect.
I think you don't need to believe in any religious dogma but I hope you believe in the law of the universe.-
It is hard to grasp the idea of a person having no religion and beieving in God. Is that an atheist?
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To think that faith is to believe in the existence of "God" constitutes a twofold error, what's more logical since one assimilates faith and first philosophy, and just as common amongst believers as agnostics, for this consists in erring on the subject of faith and on the capacities of natural and pagan human reason.
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In today's global society, how can one NOT be an atheist? What diety would truly allow our society to waste away to where it is now?
Worst thing man could ever have done was invent religion. -
I find it hard to believe that even if there is a creator for this world, he cares about every single piece of slimy bio tissue found on a small planet orbiting a mediocre star, just 1 out of 100,000,000 in the Milky Way alone, which is just one unimportant galaxy out of billions in the observable universe. Yes, thank God I'm an atheist.
p.s. Like Morgan, I don’t think free will exists. -
Sure I am. :-D -
Science. Plain & simple.
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