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As a blogger do you consider yourself a journalist?
Posted by kevingoodman • 6/13/08 • Subscribe to this Discussion [RSS] • Report This Topic
I don't - mine is a journal. But even then it's published publically so I might be wrong (about not being a journalist).
There is some debate in the PR industry about how to treat bloggers. Are they journalist or something else.
do the same rules and expectations apply to bloggers that apply to journalist?
User Comments
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Nope, bloggers are not journalists. Unless they're a journalist who blogs.-
rather foward - ok so there is one view.
Though I'm sure you would agree that some of the writers at larger multi-author and news oriented blogs are in fact journalist. -
Forward? okay.
As I said, just owning a blog doesn't make you a journalist. But there are lots of journalists that blog.
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They may not be journalist, but you can get in trouble just like one, who writes something the receiving end doesn't like.
if you are earning an income like a Journalist, call yourself whatever you want
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So maybe yes maybe no but the rules still apply.
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My Thoughts is not journalistic because well it's my thoughts. Proof Positivity requires research and that was previously on a web page so I think blogging can be journalism.-
but you are reporting on your thoughts by making them public, right?
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Yes, but it's an edited version of what I would put in my diary. I don't give many juicy details unless they relate to before children.
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To me, a journalist is someone who investigates a story/issue, reports both sides and informs the public of what's going on ... then the public decides. Altho, there is some slant in most journalism. But writing a blog about your life is not journalism ... it's just writing.
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Precicly. Here is the kicker does journalism show both sides? No. Here's why: They report on genocide or slavery but they don't offer a solution or a way to help. They just Simply report the story.
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@shiley - so your personal journal is like a state-runned system
I'm just joking. I couldnt resist when you said " but it's an edited version" -
Alright so - should bloggers be granted less liability in terms of what they say?
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We have to be responsible for what we post. If I said restaurant xyz sucks because they are roach and rodent infested that's slander even worse is now it's documented that you said it. In a court you could get sued for harming the business.
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Well you make a good point that certain legal standards are really for everyone anyways and not just journalist.
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Libel and slander aren't limited to journalists -- anyone who writes or speaks in general can definitely get into legal trouble if they're not careful. So in that sense, bloggers ~can~ be held accountable.
(However, I believe that if restaurant xyz really did have roaches and rodents, if that wasn't false, you could not be charged with slander...it has to be untruthful to be slander. Don't quote me on that, though, 'cause it's been awhile since I read up on that stuff.) -
but if they took care of the problem and ran into your blog say 2 years down the road and you never mentioned it was cleaned up... or put a disclaimer on that post...
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Hmm...never heard of a scenario like that. However, I'm sure if you could prove its date of publication, you'd be fine.
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You still cost them customers. Two years down the road. Something like that you would need documented proof probably from OSHA.
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Ooh, found an article regarding statues of limitations for defamation (though it's from 2005, so you never know):
www.dancingwithlawyers.com/freeinfo/defamation-statute-limitations.shtml
So it's (maybe) a one to two years time limit to file a suit, and it varies by state. So you'd be right on the edge if your state has a two year statute of limitations. -
See, I studied journalism too. My state is two years I would have to research if I lived in another.
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Yeah, you win. I need to hit the books!
(and apparently mine is one year). -
I'm a little behind too.
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Nope, I consider my self a satirist of corporate journalism.-
Interesting - now I need to go look up the deffinition of journalism
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Well, journalists can be bloggers, but not all bloggers are journalists.
I'd say that, if you define journalists simply as people who gather information and news and relay it to their readers, then yes. They can be defined as journalists.
However, to me (and this is after a myriad of journalism-related courses), a journalist is more than just someone who writes articles. They hold a certain accountability, they're more "official," and when working for the news media, they do far more than just write stories.
But like zawadi said, "you can get in trouble just like one," regardless.-
That's almost like saying the title is given by the media which employs you.
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But what your ultimately saying is journalist have higher standerds or greater formality?
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Greater formality, definitely. And there are standards, such as those found in the Associated Press Stylebook, and other guidelines that all (or most) journalists follow.
My main point, I guess, is that journalists, just like teachers and doctors and members of any other occupation, get their degrees, work their way up, and provide a service.
This is just my opinion, but a blogger is a blogger and a journalist is a journalist. I mean, I could run a law firm out of my garage (well, not legally I suppose), but that doesn't mean I'm a certified lawyer. -
Yeah those are some good points and worhy of further discuession.
many bloggers do consider themselves citizen journalist
So the concept of accredidation is worth exploring for that reason. -
You can, however, represent yourself in a court of law.
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Alright - what priviledges do journalist enjoy.
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They get to flip a cute little pass that allows them into sporting events, the white house, etc.
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So when you going to mail me my proof positively flash pass? Whooo hoooo free events - rock on
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But seriously I’m wondering how something like source confidentiality would hold up..Or even back to your flash pass concept. Many events and places have an open press policy – can I hold them to oblige on account of being a blogger?
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I'm not certified through the National Association of Broadcasters. I did do a PSA once for Cleveland Cavaliers I would have to get back in touch.
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Oh, never mind I just have to sign up over at wikinews and then I can print a press badge
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You could talk things over w/ someone in charge network a lot and it would get the same benefits as press but takes a lot more work. You will be turned down a lot until you get annoying and they give in. It's free PR.
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No, because I'm not providing directly-sourced information. I was a journalist once upon a time, and I went out and interviewed people and photographed things and got expert opinions (directly, not from another news source) before I wrote. If I were doing that on my blog, I'd think of it as journalism regardless of the forum, but that's not what I'm doing--or what most bloggers do.-
I should go into the depths of why I bring this up but it is simply too much info for a thread.
Anyhow – I think those that say not necessarily so are certainly right but a more relevant way of asking the question is….
Should blogs and websites be treated as other forms of media – Radio – TV – Papers – Magazines? In terms of legal expectations given that it’s so easy for anybody to broadcast on the web – can we even reasonably expect to uphold certain standards that other media vehicles would be to?
So in terms of media rather than the individual? -
I think that question isn't nearly so relevant as it might have been had blogging become popular a couple of decades ago, because the "other media" has become so broad spectrum and so often does not adhere to any particulars standards. In a world of local "magazines" comprised entirely of paid articles for advertising purposes, tabloids at the checkout counter, mainstream newspapers building news around the advertisements and instructing reporters to use advertisers as sources and feature them in stories, book packagers churning out celebrity "biographies" assembled entirely from fan magazine clippings and such, it's hard to see what "standard" might be at issue.
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Kind of a repeat
but do those laws that protect journalist and press also protect bloggers - such as confidentialty of scource? -
Ah, I see now where you're going. This was explicitly raised in the Committee hearings regarding the Free Flow of Information Act. Interestingly enough, a similar (though much more vague) concern was voiced by the Court in the early 70s--one of the reasons Justice Byron White expressed reservations about creating a privilege was that it would "soon be necessary to define who was entitled to the privilege". We have, indeed, reached that day. Still, given the consistency with which mainstream reporters are jailed when they claim such a privilege, the issue may still be more theoretical than practical.
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interesting - and so it is ultimately uncertain.
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What really got me thinking.
There been an ongoing debate about PR people sending press releases to bloggers – and bloggers reacting negatively to what is being coined PR spam.
The tradition of sending press releases to journalist interested in that particular subject has been pretty well founded – but now bloggers are making the list in media databases and many aren’t happy about it.
My ultimate opinion is don’t send an unwanted email but I also own and prescribe to a media database so I myself don’t have absolute knowledge.
Philosophically speaking – I’m inclined to believe a public website is like any other media outlet and in some-cases pretty much relinquishes certain privacy rights.
That’s not justifying but it a particular debate I am following as a stakeholder.
www.socialmediaexplorer.com/2008/06/09/righting-the-ship-for-the-public-rel...
copywriteink.blogspot.com/2008/06/stopping-pr-spam-jason-falls.html
www.blogtalkradio.com/fir
The real issue here are the landslides of promotions being sent as press releases without any newsmerit – it just got me interested in the legal nature. In fact it's not all bloggers but that is big focus on the radio program - Chief editor or CEO of wired recently started posting emails addresses from PR professional who sent him press releases in protest. I am actually wondering if he is breaking the law in some sense - but that's a whole other issue. -
At any rate I find the whole legal nature of blogging interesting.
And wonder if bloggers are inadvertently surrendering certain privacy rights – by being public media.
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According to dictionary.com, bloggers would meet the criteria of being journalists. You can look it up.
When I go to Atlantic City, with my laptop and camera, I tell everyone within earshot that I'm a photojournalist.
That way I can take pictures of ladies without being thought a perv of some sort.-
You can take and post picture in public places as long as it's not up the skirt or in restrooms. If it's a private thing it's a no no.
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Why can't you consider yourself a journalist? I research the topics I write on before I write them. I'm a graphic designer by trade and generally I find anyone who is an expert in Microsoft Word wants to be considered a graphic designer.-
yes - I want to see what others say.
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As a paid professional blogger, I am being treated as a freelance writer - nothing more, nothing less - contract states it clearly. -
In real life I really am a journalist, but still trying to figure out whether I'm a blogger.-
so whats you opinion on the citizen journalist movement?
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No most bloggers are bloggers. Not journalist as I think of journalist. Then again these days most journalists are not journalist as I think of them.-
I still think the word blogger sounds funny.
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So, if I am employed (even as a freelancer) by a company to write an article on a specific topic or interview a customer, client, or a person of influence/interest does that make me a journalist? I do those things...but I don't consider myself a journalist. I consider myself a marketing writer.
The definition of a journalist is very obtuse and ambiguous. Here's Webster's definition:
Main Entry: jour·nal·ist
Function: noun
Date: 1693
1 a: a person engaged in journalism; especially : a writer or editor for a news medium b: a writer who aims at a mass audience2: a person who keeps a journal
www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/journalist
To pin it down to just writers who create investigative pieces is not completely correct. Yes, they are INVESTIGATIVE journalists...but that's not the only type of journalist out there.
According to this definition, I guess I am to be considered a real journalist since my articles are occasionally in print form. -
Here's more food for thought from Mr. Webster:
Journalism:
1 a: the collection and editing of news for presentation through the media b: the public press c: an academic study concerned with the collection and editing of news or the management of a news medium2 a: writing designed for publication in a newspaper or magazine b: writing characterized by a direct presentation of facts or description of events without an attempt at interpretation c: writing designed to appeal to current popular taste or public interest
I'd say that according to definition 'c' many blogs (unless they are strictly personal journals) would qualify as journalism.-
what makes it interesting is that there are certain laws that provide journalist with certain protections and rights. Also many organizations provide open doors certain priviledges to journalist - can you demand as a blogger the same rights?
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Kevin, another aspect you have to take into account is that for the most part, the laws of which you speak are state laws, which means that they don't all have the same scope and application. In some states, the language of the statute might be broader and potentially be read to include bloggers and such, whereas in other states it might be explicitly limited to people working in certain media. I suspect that in most, the language is open to construction and this is an open question.
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Good question, Kevingoodman. For me, I've been a journalist longer than I've been a blogger.
But since my blog is mostly editorials and columns about news and politics, (and very few news stories) and are the type you would find in any newspaper or magazine, I do consider myself as a blogging journalist.
Now, if you're blog is about your favorite foods or your daily life, than I don't think you're a journalist. However, if you report or comment on the news in a typical, traditional style found in news/media publications, you are a journalist.
A great Web site, the Electronic Frontier Foundation, will help you understand about protecting bloggers' rights, just like journalists'. It's at:
w2.eff.org/bloggers/
timesobserver.blogspot.com-
Thnx for the link
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Very intriguing Kevin. I don't think of myself as a "journalist" because in my mind that would cheapen the term for actual paid, professional journalists.
That being said, there are caveats of being a blogger that seem to transcend the blogosphere and journalism. For example, in my niche, I'm able to request access to major race events as a blogger and get the same access that other journalists are granted. I've only done this once - and really I snuck in, but I met the folks I'd need to write to in order to get actual credentials that I could flash if asked.
Not sure I"m really getting to your points here, but for what it's worth, there's my 2 cents.
I call it "pseudo-journalism" - and I've seen first hand how some professional journalists scoff at the notion of "bloggers" being anything "real" like them. Although I don't agree with their sentiments entirely, I can certainly discern the difference between a professional journalist and myself.-
"Real" Journalists blog. allday.msnbc.msn.com/
www.wsaz.com/blogs
Content is not any different unless it's a personal blog. -
I recognize that real journalists blog, but there's still a difference between someone like me and a professional journalist. That's the point I'm trying to make. I'm not suggesting that no "real" journalists blog.
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The aspiring horse racing blog does actually report - I could see it as being a place to go for news in that field.
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Well maybe a citizen's journalist? I also used to write for a newspaper. Mostly features but there's a definite "format" that journalists must follow stricly aka AP Style. Unless of course you are Dave Barry; then there's no format. To be a blogger, you need no education, no professional association, and in most cases, no accountability which is not the the case with journalist. Fact checking is one of more time consuming but important aspect of journalism unless you are writing an editorial. Plus you have to answer to a copy editor, the editor.. so unless you do all that... no, I don't think bloggers are journalists.
I consider myself a "freelance writer" more than a journalist. Of course, blogging can be news oriented and you could probably reach out to more people as a blogger than a journalist. Different format, same goal.. communicating with people. I love blogging but hated the politics of "newspaper making"-
that is the cutest avatar ever!!! Look at the precious baby!
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Interesting that you make a distiction between Citizen Journalist and Journalist.
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Thank Kevin, she's my little pride and joy. Although she looks nothing like her father. He doesn't seem to mind that she's a mini-me.
and to the second Kevin, I think communication is the key here. Being a "journalist" is a title but mostly earned by years of hard work (and most likely a degree in Journalism by an accredited J school). Journalism students come out and barely make enough to live off of and work their way up. Bloggers on the other hand can start a blog in seconds. Good bloggers tend to be good writers but more importantly; I think they connect with people. It's their personal voice that makes them stand out. Journalists on the other hand are good reporters. I think there's a distinction. There are journalists who write well but doesn't mean they have to be as long as they follow a format that's outlined for them. This is especially true in hard news. Features and magazine writing is different. Blogging also is different because it's short and succinct. most posts do not go over couple hundred words. I don't think I have seen many that have made 500 word mark.
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No- Nards -
NO! -
I'm 67% convinced that Bloggers can become journalists, but journalists can never become bloggers.-
Those are some wild stats man, wild
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It depends I think on what type of blog you have. If it is one of those awful ones about your extended family, or heaven forbid your dog, then no this is nothing to do with journalism at all. If on the other hand, you blog about say the publishing world (as I do) then to me that is a form of journalism. There is a lot of personal stuff in there as well granted, but most of it is still about publishing, or at least my experiences of it. -
I except provable factual information or reports from a journalist.
A blogger is more like a editorial, just as much personal opinion as factual information. -
I wouldn't ever try to generalize about blogs and bloggers. Blogs share a specific format and nothing else.-
Your right stoneman.
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Yes, being a blogger is considered a journalist. -
No, it is s a form of syndicated journal, but not news writing.-
Could be for some?
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I prefer the term writer. It sounds more romantic.-
No Clark Kent, aye?
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My blogging activities are marketing related, so, I'm a marketer, not a journalist. I avoid newsy type posting.-
Been a while sense I visited, I need to stop in. You wouldn’t consider it journalistic in the field of marketing? Perhaps more instructional or motivational
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I'd have to say 'sometimes'...I have moments (and posts) when I just put information out there for reader consumption and other times I submit my opinions...
I aspire for journalistic standards but I know that I'm an amateur... -
mythoughts-ssb.blogspot.com/2008/06/my-thoughts-is-blogging-journalism.html
I just finished posting on this topic because I'm really in to it. My kind of topic. -
Ha ha - I'm a muse. I mean amused
reading it 1 2 3 now -
Couldn't help myself.
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Left a comment - you did a great job gathering info. Thnx
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I don't ever care about "getting the story out" so much as I care about "getting my damn opinion out," so I don't meet the qualifications. And most of them probably fall short of the mark, too.-
Mine is mostly a journal on my entreprenuar endeavors but if I do get into something bigger than my own business it comes closer to an op-ed than anything journalistic. Though I have interviewed a couple of people for currently unpublished project - so dunno
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No way. I think I am more like a person trying to capture glimpse of my life through photography
www.roentarre.com/Blog.aspx?id=4 -
It's a situational issue. There are journalistic bloggers and there are many that are not into journalism. I wouldn't consider myself to be a journalist based on my whole blog, but I would if I were to base myself on some of the articles I write for my blogs. Especially having been a journalist professionally. -
I consider myself a misunderstood genius-
I suddenly feel inspired to get into the t-shirt business.
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well you can call yourself a journalist but I bet the journalists and the "publishing world" will see it differently. You can call yourself anything really... but then who will agree?
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No I do not consider myself to be a journalist. There are journalists who blog but I am not among them. I am a blogger.
(1) I am not a professional journalist.I am not hired to write any of my posts and I do not receive any income whatsoever from blogging.
(2) I do not report "breaking news".
(3) I am not an "investigative reporter".
(4) I am not a "citizen reporter".
(5) I do not "re-blog" the news.
From the Electronic Frontier Foundation website:
Bloggers can be journalists (and journalists can be bloggers) - We're battling for legal and institutional recognition that if you engage in journalism, you're a journalist, with all of the attendant rights, privileges, and protections. w2.eff.org/Censorship/Apple_v_Does/
Bloggers have freedom from liability for hosting speech the same way other web hosts do - We're working to strengthen Section 230 liability protections under the Communications Decency Act (CDA) w2.eff.org/bloggers/lg/faq-230.php while spreading the word that bloggers are entitled to them. (See Barrett v. Rosenthal.) w2.eff.org/legal/cases/Barrett_v_Rosenthal/-
Thnx
"Bloggers have freedom from liability for hosting speech the same way other web hosts do" -
Oops - I'll be studying that one more
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journalism is one of the things I do as a blogger. However, for me, blogging is an art form. I take license that clearly would be contrary to good practices of journalism. At the same time, if I report something wrong, I make a point of correcting it.-
That's a good sign that you can accept your position as being potentially biased.
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Most journalist are not journalist in the real sense of the word. I am most definatley not a journalist. I am "The Masked Millionaire" -
Bloggers have bigger egos than reporters.
I'm a newspaper reporter.
I still get annoyed at reporters who call themselves "journalists," especially guys fresh in the industry. Always sounds pompous.
Some bloggers produce solid journalism, completely covering a given subject.
Personally, the entire political blog movement bothers me, because so many polictical bloggers treat politics like those frat boys who attend football games shirtless with their torsos painted with the school colors.
It's all about rooting for their team and crushing the other guys. That's about as far as journalism as you can get.
My eyes bleed when these bloggers start bashing the "mainstream" media -- when all they are all non-thinking hacks who spout a party line.
I'll get off my soap box now.
Visit Hollywood Chainsaw Blogger!
newstimescommunity.com/blogs/chainsaw/
(edited to correct a typo)-
I doubt very few political bloggers are objective enough to really report unbiased. Anyhow
you say
"still get annoyed at reporters who call themselves "journalists," especially guys fresh in the industry. Always sounds pompous."
This is interesting because you imply status and I had never thought of it in that way.
But isn’t a first year doctor still a doctor and isn’t an adjunct professor still as much a professor as a tenured one? -
Well, hollywoodchainsaw, I've been an editor, reporter and columnist, so I consider myself a journalist. And on top of that, a blogger as well.
Sure many political bloggers are biased when they give their opinions, but how is that any different from columnists who do the same? Basically, bloggers and columnists are the same, but they use a different form of media to publish their writings. Sure, a few differences, but pretty much the same. Also, many columnists have blogs now and they blast mainstream media too.
timesobserver.blogspot.com -
At any rate I find it an interesting perspective but I don't exactly agree with it.
Primarely because I see journalism as a profession.
But to imply that a journalist is made - some how mystiques it and conveys more than is.
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I don't think it's as much status as it is experience.
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I disagree that "basically, bloggers and columnists are the same."
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Too many bloggers are either far right or far left, rewrite press releases, and are political pawns used by politians to get spread messages the politican are afraid to say openly.
At least that's been my experience-
I can see where you're going and I agree to that. But some other bloggers are just like some of the columnists I've worked with or read. Some are really good and check their facts, but are just as biased.
But you are right, some are really off the mark.
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@Kevin
I think there is a crossover between this thread and another one and that a post I made there ought to also be considered in this thread www.blogcatalog.com/discuss/entry/who-really-owns-your-comments#comment_422...
Bloggers & Moderators liable for blog comments
www.dba-oracle.com/oracle_news/2005_9_1_liable_blog_comments.htm -
Agreed, timesobserver
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All said I don't see why a blogger couldn’t be a journalist. In fact I could see it being a viable way for someone just finishing school or looking to switch careers to demonstrate the viability of their work. Or even hobby journalism for those who have no professional (I mean financial) ambitions – it ultimately seems a matter of standards and professionalism.
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