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Can neo-Nazis or Racists be Good Parents ?

Posted by gerryPlanetEarth • 9/25/09 • Subscribe to this Discussion [RSS] • Report This Topic
Topics: family_sevices, nazi, racist

People can be good parents while maintaining racist beliefs, a lawyer told a Manitoba Court of Queen's Bench judge Friday.

"You can fundamentally be a racist ... but the point is, people's beliefs are legal in Canada," Catherine Dunn said on behalf of her client, a man who is fighting to regain custody of his two children.

"He has a right to care for his children."

The court battle centres on two children who were seized from their home last year after one showed up at her elementary school with racist slogans and symbols drawn on her skin in permanent marker. No one involved in the case can be identified under Manitoba law.

Manitoba Child and Family Services is seeking permanent guardianship of the children, but the father is fighting the move, saying the seizure violates his freedom of expression under the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

news.ca.msn.com/canada/cp-article.aspx?cp-documentid=21917082

What do you think ?

User Comments

9/25/09

DollinNYC

And then there was little Adolph Hitler in New Jersey...
www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2009/01/21/2009-01-21_mother_of_children_named...

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1. 9/25/09
  
  FreakSmack
  
  What a weirdo! I can't believe somone would choose to give their child the name of the most hated man of all time. And the other two are no better.
2. 9/26/09
  
  gerryPlanetEarth
  
  Young Adolf Hitler Campbell...Is that the mother or the father in the picture ?
9/25/09

polybore

If you are racist enough to poison your child's mind by sending them to school covered in racist slogans in indelible ink then you are not only a racist but a child abuser as well.

Should not be allowed within a mile of any child.

[reply]
1. 9/26/09
  
  gerryPlanetEarth
  
  I think you have brought up an important point...Rather than the courts considering the father's ridiculous defence of freedom of expression under the Charter of Rights and Freedoms he should have been charged with child abuse...
2. 9/30/09
  
  timethief
  
  @gerryplaneteart
  You have said: Rather than the courts considering the father's ridiculous defence of freedom of expression under the Charter of Rights and Freedoms he should have been charged with child abuse...
  
  My question to you is: In this case what legal grounds exist for charging the parent(s) with child abuse?
  
  In this case the parents and children live in Canada. What follows is what constitutes child abuse in Canada:
  
  The term “child abuse” refers to the violence, mistreatment or neglect that a child or adolescent may experience while in the care of someone they either trust or depend on, such as a parent, sibling, other relative, caregiver or guardian. Abuse may take place anywhere and may occur, for example, within the child's home or that of someone known to the child.
  
  There are many different forms of abuse and a child may be subjected to more than one form:
  Physical abuse may consist of just one incident or it may happen repeatedly. It involves deliberately using force against a child in such a way that the child is either injured or is at risk of being injured. Physical abuse includes beating, hitting, shaking, pushing, choking, biting, burning, kicking or assaulting a child with a weapon.1 It also includes holding a child under water, or any other dangerous or harmful use of force or restraint. Female genital mutilation is another form of physical abuse.
  
  Sexual abuse and exploitation involves using a child for sexual purposes. Examples of child sexual abuse include fondling, inviting a child to touch or be touched sexually, intercourse, rape, incest, sodomy, exhibitionism, or involving a child in prostitution or pornography.
  
  Neglect is often chronic, and it usually involves repeated incidents. It involves failing to provide what a child needs for his or her physical, psychological or emotional development and well being. For example, neglect includes failing to provide a child with food, clothing, shelter, cleanliness, medical care or protection from harm.3 Emotional neglect includes failing to provide a child with love, safety, and a sense of worth.
  
  Emotional abuse involves harming a child's sense of self. It includes acts (or omissions) that result in, or place a child at risk of, serious behavioural, cognitive, emotional or mental health problems. For example, emotional abuse may include verbal threats, social isolation, intimidation, exploitation, or routinely making unreasonable demands. It also includes terrorizing a child, or exposing them to family violence.
  canada.justice.gc.ca/eng/pi/fv-vf/facts-info/child-enf.html
  
  In this case, there are no legal grounds for charging the parent(s) with child abuse, for, if there had been then the parent(s) would have been charged with the same.
  
  What does exist is grounds for the parent(s) to rely on the provisions of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms re: freedom of expression as a defense.
9/25/09

timethief

I recalled this story being posted to the forum previously. Here's the link to the previous thread
www.blogcatalog.com/discuss/entry/white-pride-and-motherhood

Here is an additional link to an earlier news report on the same case:
Winnipeg 'white pride' mother regrets redrawing swastika on child's arm www.cbc.ca/canada/manitoba/story/2008/07/10/swastika-child.html?ref=rss

[reply]
9/25/09

LisaNYC

Instilling hate, bigotry and racist believes in their children does not make them "good parents," and it's too bad lizard brains are still procreating.

[reply]
1. 9/29/09
  
  gerryPlanetEarth
  
  Is there any evidence that lizards or any life forms other than humans are racist to their own species ?
9/25/09

HollytheHousewife

Yea and hitler married anne frank.....ugggggghhhhh

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9/25/09

LisaNYC

Oops...typo...make that "beliefs" in my post.

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9/25/09

amybyrd21

I live in the deep south and see it all the time. I try to make my kids over look this by telling them that it is wrong. No you can not be a good parent if you teach hate

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9/25/09

DollinNYC

Unfortunately any loser can procreate.

[reply]
1. 9/30/09
  
  gerryPlanetEarth
  
  I was going to say it takes two losers to procreate but with todays technology...
9/26/09

Hels

There seem to be two different problem areas.

1. Areas in which there are indeed painful controversies but where people on both sides of a debate hold strong moral positions eg physical punishment of children, vegetarianism, pacifism, smoking in the house, nudity, guns, baby sleeping in the marital bed, home schooling etc etc. These families are able to raise their children, in peace, according to their own value systems. Even if those value systems run counter to your own.

2, Areas where there are no moral controversies whatsoever eg murder, paedophelia, racism, Nazism, female circumcision. These parents should never be allowed to raise their own children, without very very very close supervision (and even then, possibly not at all).

[reply]
1. 10/01/09
  
  gerryPlanetEarth
  
  @Hels
  
  I agree with your above assesement...
  
  Nazism does not qualify as a religion and the promotion of Nazism is a hate crime...Hundreds of millions of Earthlings lost their lives either from being murdered by the Nazis or defending the Planet from the Nazis...
  
  The freedom of speech argument is ludicrous and should not be considered...
9/29/09

exit2013

I feel sorry for the kid named Adolf Hitler. I mean, who's going to date him, hire him? God forbids he runs for President.

[reply]
1. 9/29/09
  
  ThriftShopRomantic
  
  I actually did a humor post on that once-- what would happen to Presidential Candidate "Bitler," a man who has an unfortunate facial hair choice and tends to wear beige... :
9/29/09

sjtavo

I really don't think that raising a child to hate certain people/races can be deemed good parenting. I'm certainly not a fundamental Christian by any stretch of the imagination, but raising a child to hate seems ludicrous and terrible parenting.

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9/29/09

timethief

I do not believe parents ought to teach their children to hate anyone for any reason whatsoever, and I think many, if not most adults, will agree with me. However, I think this subject is very complex as most of us will agree that parents are allowed to teach their children their own values and share their religious and political beliefs with them.

I was raised in a fundamentalist Christian family and I was taught by the rod. Without doubt many of the teachings I received were not healthy in their focus towards those who chose to embrace other belief systems, and towards those who choose to not to embrace any belief system at all. Without doubt the teaching methods were abusive when viewed through our eyes today, but they were very common in the times I was raised in.

Unless or until there is actual abuse going on in any household, I do not believe the state has the right to intervene into family affairs and remove children from their parents simply based on sharing their religious and/or political beliefs with them.

Take a closer look at the complexity and hypocrisy that exists. Some parents who are teaching their children to hate all Muslims and label them as terrorists are the loudest voices in a country where the military budgets are the highest ever recorded and their young are being sacrificed on the altar of oil.

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9/29/09

mariosa

Some parents are the hell, I dont know why human beings are defenseless for long time, we are a race of slow grow, that is the problem, parents can teach many bad things and abuse of their children like the story here, I believe the state must warn to the racist parents and if they keep doing loud things outside put away the children of them.

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9/29/09

othellobloke

I'm a little less liberal. I truly believe racists should all be shot dead.

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9/29/09

pwilden

The line between individual freedom of expression to raise your children as you see fit and child abuse is a fine one. As abhorrent as teaching hate is, generally speaking, trying to dictate morality almost always backfires.
The trouble is, who decides what is and isn't acceptable? As timethief points out,

Take a closer look at the complexity and hypocrisy that exists. Some parents who are teaching their children to hate all Muslims and label them as terrorists are the loudest voices in a country where the military budgets are the highest ever recorded and their young are being sacrificed on the altar of oil.

...some of the worst atrocities are perpetrated by the "moral leaders" among us.

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9/29/09

RoflopagosIsland

I think those parents are extremely irresponsible for passing on such hateful attitudes to children...but when you think about it many parents pass on hateful attitudes to kids in different ways. Sooo...you can't really take a child away based on beliefs. But if those beliefs put a child in direct danger then I'm sure it's within a provinces/states right to take them away.

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9/30/09

crazyTsu

Do children always come up the way you want them?????

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9/30/09

wagerwitch

I think that this - while being offensive to a lot of people - is not the State's business to get involved with.

If there is a religious tolerance policy then the parent has the right to raise their child the way they see fit - as long as they are not abusing the child.

We may find it abhorrent to raise a child with the belief that racism is tolerable - however - the parent has the RIGHT to believe in whatsoever he chooses - as long as the child is fed, housed and not beaten - has clothing and necessary needs = THEN the state has no right to intervene.

What you and I choose to believe in and the path we choose to follow is alright for us - and what they choose to believe in and the paths others choose to take is alright for them...

Unfortunate - BUT what this family believes in - regardless if you and I agree with it or not - unless the child is being abused - THE STATE HAS NO RIGHT TO GET INVOLVED.

Otherwise we are not free... We are a dictatorship.

[reply]
1. 9/30/09
  
  Hels
  
  wager, if it was only "offensive", you may well be correct. But neo-Nazis and racists are truly destructive.
9/30/09

Halconite

Child-raising is primarily concern of the family or the parents, not the government...

[reply]
9/30/09

Sebastyne

I was going to say that it is not any way different than teaching your kids to believe in God while a lot of us deny the existence of God.. BUT, in most countries racism is illegal. (Don't know about Canada, but I would believe it is there as well.) So basically the kids are being taught illegal acts and beliefs, that are likely to lead to hate crime, so that should be grounds enough to get them out. Can they be good parents at the same time... In every other aspect, probably yes. But you wouldn't allow parents to teach their children the art of pick pocketing either, probably.

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