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Can News/Commentary Blogs Exist Without Newspapers?
Posted by gtally • 2/27/09 • Subscribe to this Discussion [RSS] • Report This Topic
Topics: media, news, news blogging, news blogs, newspapers, press
Depressing news today in my home state of Colorado:
After 150 years of publishing, the Rocky Mountain News is shutting its doors for good.
www.cnn.com/2009/US/02/27/rocky.mountain/index.html
Denver will become a one paper town, and will be the poorer for it.
So many news, political, opinion and satire blogs rely on re-using content generated by newspapers. Even lifestyle blogs like my wine blog rely on third party sources for a variety of content.
Question: with the media thinning out and consolidating, how many topical blogs will survive without media organizations to feed them content? What do you think?
User Comments
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I hate to say it, but newspapers are really obsolete media now. In Chicago, we have two struggling papers. The Chicago Tribune is expected to be next in line to close its doors.
I get most of my news and commentary from CNN.com or NPR.-
Stillthinking: me, too. I don't pick up a paper; I read it on the Internet.
But do you use any newspapers for quoting information? I find Google News search is a highly reliable way to find relevant global news related to topics that I write about. The best news is still from old school media outlets like newspapers and magazines. What will we do without them? -
Oops! Meant to post below. Carry on, everyone!
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I still find that most of the news stories I quote are from CNN or from NPR. Is the Rocky Mountain News going to continue online operations?
I have heard that this may be course that the Chicago Tribune may be pursuing if worse comes to worse.-
Nope, the Rocky Mountain News is deader than a doornail. Try quotation marks around your search term in Google News; search by both date and relevance links, and then click the blogs search link. You'll open up a galaxy of world-wide publications as good as CNN or NPR. I've quoted papers from the UK and South Africa because Google news showed them to me. Try it! You'll love it.
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I live in Colorado, also. It's a shame the RMN is shutting its doors, but I have to admit, they haven't made any money off me. I've been reading it online. I guess they didn't have enough advertizing dollars from the website to keep going. The fact that it's a right-wing paper probably didn't help either.-
satijournal: Yeah, but that was just the editorial department. The in-depth reporting and quality news coverage will be missed. And I used the Rocky Mountain News for quite a few stories for my blog. The two newspapers in grand Junction, the Sentinel and the Free Press, are in similar trouble.
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The Tribune is also a conservative paper editorially, but in Chicago, has the reputation of being THE paper to read for literate, analytic reporting.
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Is Mike Royko still alive?
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No, he's been dead for over a decade. I knew he had passed, but I had to look up when he died.
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A pity about the Trib. I loved their layout so much in the 90s, I copied their look for my high school newspaper when I was editor in chief.
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You'll probably be really dismayed if you saw their recent revamp. They ditched the old traditional broadsheet and became a tabloid. I was horrified.
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Ugh. Sounds horrible. I hate to see all this quality content get flushed down the drain for the want of a decent economic model in the Internet Age. But if newspapers can't hack it with banner ads, what on earth makes most bloggers dream of striking it rich with AdSense? Only a handful of people ever make any kind of substantial money doing this game.
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The problem, it seems to me, is that most citizens strongly prefer reading their newspaper on the web, when and as it suits them. Unfortunately, most readers absolutely positively will NOT pay to read the online edition and the advertising alone doesn't cover the cost of gathering the news and publishing it. Here in the Seattle area we've been told that the Post Intelligencer will stop publishing next month unless someone buys it.
Blogs can be really great at providing commentary and perspective and roundups to published news sources and opinions, but few if any blogs have the resources and the expertise to actually gather hard news. Blogs are not the replacement for newspapers, imho. But I do agree that dead tree printed newspapers are going away, much sooner than most people think.-
But where will be go for in depth, quality content? This economic shake down is watering down the decent content that is available. Magazines are probably next.
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I think the content has already gone to the wayside. Most newspapers write their articles at a 5th grade level or lower. No wonder we spent 8 years with a semi-literate president.
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I think it will be fine. Newspaper are outdated, now, with the advent of the radio, t.v., and internet, anyway (if you really look at the source).-
What's scary about this is that newspapers, while obsolete and wending their way merrily towards extinction, are still the *bedrock*, the foundation of all our other news. How many times have I seen a TV station follow a newspaper's lead? Not to mention bloggers? It's a trend that's bad for democracy.
With fewer media outlets, there will fewer voices, less information, less insight. This is a very dangerous slippery slope towards a blathering idiotocracy, or allowing a government to act carte blanche without any controls or questioning.
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For me it depends on which daily lie you want to believe, is your thing dirty foreigners taking free benefits while killing innocent grannies or is your thing more the day to day soap of the oval office and 10 Downing street? If you look around there's something for you all because that's their job.
The people who are stealing your pensions and telling you bankers are bad are the people who are stealing your pensions and telling you bankers are bad.-
Aardvark, aren't there some decent British papers/journalists amidst all the dreck of the tabloids? Isn't there someone in the press your aardvarky heart admires and trusts?
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Yeah of course their are some journalists worthy of the name Robert Fisk of the Independent, Seymour Hersh and of course John Pilger. The great sadness of our age is that I can name three honourable men.
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I'm surprised you could climb that high. We just lost Studs Terkel, over here, another giant of the genre. A damn shame.
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Well yeah the hair spray bitches that declare themselves "Journalists" do so now from embedded Humvee's and concern themselves and their reporting to the wear and tear of good American boys and the nasty strain of murder.
I imagine Dr Goebbels dreamed of sending the same kind of reports back from the Eastern front before democracy put a stop to his plans. -
Yeah, Anin, I hear you. You've proven my point, too. The only American reporters in Iraq with a continuous presence were the New York Times, The LA Times and Scripps Howard News Service. All of these were old School newspaper people shining a light on dark corners. When no one can afford to send skeptical people to unpleasant places to be nosey and ask hard questions, then we will be in serious trouble. Bloggers not having newspaper content to re-purpose and comment on is the tip of the ice berg.
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No not at all I find these newspapers are some of the worst offenders, these papers are the gatekeepers and the whore guardians of public opinion for the people that are dropping 1000lb showbiz bombs on 2yr old nobodies and telling us we have made gains in our war on terror.
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I agree that in general the media allowed themselves to both beat the drums of war as well as be cowed by public opinion, and gave into their huge fears about hurting sales by questioning too much, not to mention blindly reporting information from the government without vetting it first. But I also think there were a handful of real journalists in a flawed system putting their lives on the line to show gruesome things, atrocities and ask hard questions. The papers I mentioned have some quality reporters who gave us some of the only substantive information from Iraq (from the U.S.). And without even this flawed information, we would have had only yellow journalism, propaganda and cheer leading.
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I believe the vast majority of the "news media" have forfeited the right to the title of news media and truth be told I like countless others read their lies while wondering what the real story is.
What I am asking my self now is this what pre revolution St Petersburg was like? Was Weimar Germany like this? Do I need to make preparations for the follies of others? -
Anin, I think the very things you decry are partially caused by this media consolidation and the death of so many news outlets. The voices are thinning out, the content is becoming homogeneous, and I seriously doubt the Internet, TV and radio will fill the information vacuum in any meaningful way. We're headed towards your "hairpray journalism" and only a vapid monoculture of talking heads. Without some form of investigative print journalism, our society definitely will be in a pretty sorry shape.
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If the bloggers become actual investigative journalists who do interview people and who do their own research then they will become credible sources. At present very few fit that billing. They simply rehash what the media has produced either in print or video or audio format and provide their opinions.-
Exactly, timethief. The blogosphere is an echo chamber for traditional media outlets, and these are thinning out at an alarming rate. It spite of the many sins, flaws and infractions that @aningeniousname despises, we still need an independent press. And unfortunately the very newspapers that are dying off have had the most in depth coverage. Most of the blogs that *want* to do true blue investigative reporting don't have the revenue or resources to do so. And we're in serious trouble if no one is asking the hard questions. TT, or any else, do you have any links to news blogs that you respect that are producing original content?
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This is where I think blogging can become something more than intellectual masturbation.
Bloggers need to be aware and join together then we become a real force in gobal politics. -
Hmmm...Anin, do you think the economic model is there to sustain your vision? I wonder if and how a collaborative Internet 2.0 model could cut costs? Is there anything like a News Wiki out there to fill the content void, when papers go under?
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I think in my country, there are few independent writers/bloggers, always around on the red spot (sometimes can see them on tv (news) as well - even sometimes they are famous like reporters @ sometimes they also get sued by the authority) for political and entertainment story. They are working alone, and only get paid from all ads in their blogs, and they says, its worth it.
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Yes, news blogs can easily exist without newspapers. Most major news is drawn from Reuters and other wire services. There is no reason a blog or website cannot draw from the wire services and add their own news to a blog or website. It is very easy to combine citizen journalism with wire services. Many local papers are moving online. For example, lohud.com, the news for Westchester county allows commenting on all of their articles.-
Reuters is a a good news source to draw from, but it is only one source. Many hometown papers also cover local news and write in-depth stories. Only a few papers will survive the transfer to online, and unfortunately, the public voices available will be diminished.
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I will make a confession right now. I used to be a newspaper, online news, NPR, Sunday Morning talk show junkie.
Since I lost my job, I just don't have the stomach for the news anymore.-
Me too, Stillthinking. I go through obsessive periods with the news, then eventually burn out and have to do something else. I lost interest in general news after the election, and now focus on local news and wine news for my blog. Of course, my current obsession/addiction is the BC discussion boards, and let me tell you, I am glad it's not a slot machine!
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I am also obsessed with BC discussion boards! These boards actually have smart people on them who have fun with lots of different topics! I have only been on BC going on 2 weeks.
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I know. These BC threads are like intellectual heroin! I get twitchy if I'm away too long.
But probably eventually I'll burn out, and cut way back. Still, the BC boards are a great place for community.
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But, back on topic, can topical current event news/commentary, even lifestyle blogs survive without newspapers feeding them information?
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Anyone still interested in this subject matter? Can topical blogs survive in any meaningful form without newspaper content to reuse?
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It could be that without advertisers and newspaper owners who have their own political bias, Internet explorers will cull the herd and find those writers who are investigative and sort through facts. The heavy hand of biased advertisers may have thwarted good journalism. Who knows, perhaps a Thomas Paine will arise. Some of the writers I have seen here give me hope.-
I heard in an American documentary that a lot of newspapers actually could be economically sustainable and survive online. But a majority of papers were gobbled up by media conglomerates that were publicly traded and must produce larger and larger profits each quarter to satisfy investors and analysts. So if you can't grow a paper, why not squeeze it by cutting staff, watering down content by using only wire services, etc.? So the entire model for papers guarantees their extinction. It doesn't necessarily have to be this way!
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Question: with the media thinning out and consolidating, how many topical blogs will survive without media organizations to feed them content? What do you think?
I'm thinking that more and more journalists and reporters are blogging so perhaps the print media corporations will simply choose to run online versions. For example: CNN is a VIP account at hosted by wordpress.com. In fact wordpress.com hosts 50 blogs for CNN including Anderson Cooper's 360 degree blog
Others like CNN’s Political Ticker, Dow Jones’ All Things D, Fox’s GretaWire, The New York Times’ The Moment, Time Inc’s The Page, People Magazine’s StyleWatch Off the Rack, famous bloggers like Dan Lyons (formerly known as Fake Steve Jobs), Om Malik, Curt Schilling, and Robert Scoble, official blogs for communities like Flickr and Second Life, and many other high-profile and high-traffic blogs are VIP hosted by WordPress.com-
timethief, I agree it's adapt or die for many of these publications. But I wonder how these revamped news organizations will be able to sustain themselves online. TT, do you have any good media blogs to share that you like to read? Oops! You edited your comment and beat me to the punch!
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Didn't Dan Lyons just publicly admit he couldn't make a living blogging?
"Growing Rich by Blogging Is a High-Tech Fairy Tale"
"Time to Hang Up the Pajamas"
"I learned the hard way: while blogs can do many wonderful things, making huge amounts of money isn't one of them."
www.newsweek.com/id/183666
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Yes a news media blog can trive without newspapers. There are press releases which they do expect bloggers to be a part of. Learn how to be a journalist on your own. A great source for anyone who writes is News U www.newsu.org/ which offers nearly the same information as a college for free and they too expect bloggers to be a part of it. Why do you need a newspaper to blog. One of the important questions to ask is why are the newspapers going under?
A good portion of that is our fault. We write what we see, hear, and learn and it's free.
The more traffic you get the more likely you are to get sponsors.-
Shirley: But the majority of the media list of what timethief provides above are blogs attached to main stream press organizations: TV networks, newspapers, etc. The blogs are merely one narrow vertical niche of information that gets amplified by the main media outlet. They are an extension of a brand, not stand alone news blogs. Without these big organizations to prop them up, would these news blogs survive at all?
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Mine is surviving and everyday I get more traffic It is a PR 3 proofpositivity.wordpress.com I have no one backing me which is probably why I am burnt out but I always eventually do go back. I don't use newspapers or TV for the most part for my stories I have to research a great deal of what I post.
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Shirley: I agree that it's hard to keep up with the posts on a day to day basis. I admire your dedication to something that is often a long, hard slog.
Keep up the good work!
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The Huffington Post is thriving and setting a positive trend. It also has diverse views from all political angles. She has shown that it can be done and done well.
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huff-po usually gets it's news from other places though don't they? I don't think they have a bevy of real journalists, just bloggers not reporters, which is why they started that citizens media thing. They are more a pop culture rag with political punditry thrown in, and though entertaining at times they are not the news. -
How does the Huff-Po get funded? Doesn't Ariana Huffington prop it up herself with her fortune? If that's the case, then it's more vanity press than a serious news outlet. Anybody have any ideas how the Huff Po funds itself?
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What about the "Smoking Gun"? They do a lot of investigative reporting on celebrities and politicians. But does this make them an online tabloid or legitimate a news organization?
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gtally: those sites aren't news sites, huff-po may have political correspondents and their reporting may be accurate, but I'm sure they use AP stuff via a purchased license and their people just opine on it. It is just important to know the difference. Most on line site don't have journalist - yet.
I think they will eventually transition to online it will just take some time. It would be worrisome if real journalists disappeared.
I rarely read online sites for news unless they are the news.
The NYT, the WSJ - even their political coverage has been called into question lately they are still one of the better places and WAPO as well. No matter what they are they still are read news papers and whether their slant is liberal or conservative they at least try to do it right. That includes the International Herald Tribune.
This is a great source list of newspapers nationals and locals - online
www.ajr.org/Newspapers.asp?MediaType=1
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Here are some online sites I read which at least direct me to news, some are news sites some are not.
Columbia Journalism Review
Christian Science Monitor
Inner City Press
Unite Nation News Service
The Washington Independent
The Washington Monthly
The Moderate Voice
Project for excellence in journalism
The Uptake has some good independent stuff at times
ProPublica
TPM because they actually investigate
You can google them via their name I am too lazy to post the links. -
Wow cooper, you really know your stuff! (I bet somebody's been to j-school). I love the IHT, as well. Thanks for all the substinative info and links!
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As it is now most people have no idea that what they listen to and read is not real news. People assume opinion on the news is the news. There are news journals that do put out real news still because they have real journalists. I think eventually it will iron itself out and technology and journalism will begin to work well together, but there may be some pretty poor coverage for awhile.
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@cooper, are there any particular online journals or news blogs that you could single out for creating decent journalism? What comes to mind?
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Anyone else think it's a bad phenomenon for us to lose our newspapers? Without them, from where will substantive journalism originate?
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cooper,
I think it's possible that newspapers printing a mix of opinion, the-world-as-we-wish-it-was, and 'news,' without accurate labeling, may have been contributing to the decline of newspapers. This isn't the sixties any more, people (here in America, at least) don't depend entirely on three commercial networks, PBS, and a few major newspapers, for their information - and, like people anywhere, we're nobody's fools.
Sorry 'bout that. I'll get down off my soapbox now. -
gtally,
Where will substantive journalism come from?
My guess is that broadcast and cable television networks can do their own research. And, although existing news services like The Associated Press and Reuters do seem to depend partly on newspaper reporters, they may be able to find other sources.
Who knows? Maybe people who go out, get facts, and write about them, could sell directly to the major news services. Where outfits like Reuters would get their money without newspapers is a question, but check out online news sites - oh, never mind. -
Norski: Oh no, not at all. I think it's always been easy to fool people en masse:
"If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.” -- Joseph Goebbels
I think newspapers at their best are a form of dissent and truth, and without these voices, Goebbels' dark, Machiavellian vision comes true, and it is much easier for the powers-that-be to achieve their big lies. My two cents.
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The sad part is that people dont realize how big that is. The element of opinion is what makes us different from animals. Newspapers bring out that element. Where blogs and news site continue to take a chunk of advertising revenue from the classified.... there is still a market out there... and true journalism comes out from newspapers only... without any offense to any bloggers...including myself heheh...
its a sad day...today and unfortunately there are more in the pipeline...more to follow the same route...just not enough advertising revenue...-
umarpirzada, You and I share the same fear. The watered down news will only become more watered down and homogeneous without newspapers. Who will ask the hard questions? This is more than an industry shakeup due to transformational technology; it is the death of an investigative culture in U.S. journalism that has existed since Watergate. I worry who or what will curb the powers that be without some in-depth news and analysis.
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"true journalism comes out from newspapers only"
I'm a blogger, not a journalist, and certainly don't take offense at having what I do defined as something other than journalism.
However, I'm a bit dubious about "true" journalism being the exclusive property of newspapers.
It's true: for a few centuries now, most 'news' has appeared as patterns of ink on thin, flexible, sheets. But broadcast news is over a half-century old: and quite a few people seem to think that they're in the news business, too.
I suppose it's a matter of definition.
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As far as my news and commentary blog ( anotherwaronterrorblog.blogspot.com/ ) goes, I'd miss The New York Times, Los Angeles Times, and a few other newspapers. But, I get a great deal of information from Reuters, The Associated Press, and other news sources: including cable and (a few) broadcast news sources.
Newspapers may find a place in today's information market: but they're far from the only news resource around. -
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