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Can the Democratic party save the United States from imploding?
Posted by iyaayasmoderator • 5/08/09 • Subscribe to this Discussion [RSS] • Report This Topic
Topics: democratic party agenda
1) Without quoting from the Democrat party agenda, (which is full of nice ideas to pretty much solve everything that ails us in the United States), how do you see our current administration "correcting" or "undoing" the nations problems?
2) Will the Democrats be able to do this without taking steps backwards even further than we are now?
3) Should I line up for all of the "promised" handouts?
4) Do you really want "socialized" medicine?
User Comments
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yeah...kill all the old and disabled people...they can't work anyway! Let the poor people starve! their ancestors clearly didn't work hard enough! Yeah! To hell with everyone! -
You should post this to the political board. I think that would save this one from imploding. -
I have some bad news for you. You already have socialised medicine, it just is run very badly in order to prop up the pharmaceutical companies.
Or have you never heard of Medicare Part D?-
@ greencurmudgeon. Was it run badly by the Republicans so they could continue to line their pockets with the good publics money? Is everything a conspiracy with the Democrats?
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yeah, because that's a crazy conspiracy theory...
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that tends to be how it happens... Which is why I'm not big on Work Camp! -
Never blame a conspiracy when stupidity is a more likely culprit.
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or the aggregate of random corruption...
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There are only Rockedems and Reockepubs, both working for the Rockefellers and Co. -
I didn't think anyone would answer. I did get what I was looking for, the lack of answers. Can't those simple questions be answered honestly without quoting an agenda?
I know that ALL Democrats who are politicians would NEVER do anything to help their own bank account. I have never seen one of them in the news for doing something they weren't supposed to do while serving the people.
The blame game can be played from here to eternity. It's a shame that this is the only thing that seems to get said here in these discussions.
I hope I'm wrong, and sometime in the near future everyone will learn to play nice together.-
hahaha
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the questions weren't answered cause they were bunk!
What promised hand-outs?! I'm not a bank!
What "steps backward"? What does that mean?
and the "socialized medicine" is more of corporatized medicine... an extension of Bush's prescription drug plan from what I can tell. -
The key to using irony successfully is to sprinkle it like salt, not drop it like a 10 tonne weight.
Your point is invalid - both political parties have people on the take. Politics is designed to attract people who believe they are destined to rule over others...this is inherently a sign of mental illness. This is why politics should be kept to as local a level as possible, because the politicians in question then are forced to be confronted by their neighbours when the consequences of their decisions come to bear. This is also why civil liberties are extremely important.
I don't recall the Republicans having a good record on either of these issues. In fact, they failed. When a government becomes obnoxious and obstinate, it's time to either reform it or remove it. -
why do you guys bother? he's going to ignore your answers and focus on something entirely unrelated...
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Amen, Green*
*not to be confused with running back Ahman Green
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@ SiuilARuin. Now that there is actually a discussion about your beloved Democratic party, all you have to offer is "hahaha"? Pity.
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I'm not American...no one outside of America likes Republicans (except Jordan)...know why?
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Cause they decided not to enforce SEC regulations and f~cked up the world economy?
just a guess, mind you -
@ SiuilARuin.
You talk a good game then. Here I thought you had your own opinion. I shouldn't have assumed that you might actually have something to say on your own regard.
And if I read everyones statements correctly throughout a few different discussions, the Republicans are not that popular with the United States either. Appearantly, the Democrats can and will fix everything. I have a feeling I will be waiting for quite some time. -
lesser of two evils...
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lesser two evils ? Rather a manipulation of both parties, when people gets sick with one, they use the puppet from the other party. That's the reason behind democracy: a psychological rehearsal for making people accept what would be otherwise inacceptable.
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oh really...is that what democracy is? *sigh*
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There are so many naive and ignorant people who don't know that the ideal of democracy which was supposedly designed from Philosopher Jean Jacques Rousseau ( see www.elitethinker.com/2009/04/liberty-equality-fraternity-where-does.html )
has been perveted since inception during the French Revolution: according to Jean Jacques Rousseau, the Constitution would have to elect People as Sovereign, but at the last moment they change the text and put the Nation as Sovereign in the French Constitution which is something most people of course won't even make any difference, whereas it means in law (and that is in a law book that I learnt this) that in reality the elected people (so the politicians) don't have to answer to the People.
All Democracies in the Rest of the World are inspired from the French "Revolution" which was just a way to destroy a deprecated order and build a new one which would better conceal the Elite's Power by making people believe they are Sovereign whereas they are not. -
As I said on the thread when you were first advertising that post...you need to read more than just Rousseau. Rousseau did not invent freedom or democracy.
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@elite
Rousseau held up his native city of Geneva as being the ideal state: his dedication at the beginning of a A Discourse on Inequality is testament to this.
It's worth mentioning that prior to the American War of Independence, it was considered that democracy could only work in small city-states, like those in Ancient Greece and Geneva. This rulebook was thrown out by James Madison, who thought a large, extensive republic could work.
But what if Madison was wrong? And in order to preserve liberty, the connection to the local was what was most important? -
Liberty ? For how many people on the planet in truth ? And is Liberty just about Speech Freedom when you can't even feed or even drink ? The problem is the very narrowed concept of Liberty people in developped country have. They have a high standard of living and can now have the luxury of disserting on Liberty like we are doing here without considering that this abstract concept means nothing for the huge majority of the planet because they are fighting for survival.
In fact the rest of the planet wouldn't even understand why we complain about our democracy since we are all well fed. -
Rousseau based his ideas on Locke's, or rather on French translations of Locke's "Two Treatises of Government." That theory of Liberalism was of people being governed by Law or put another way: Government by Social Contract. Hence the "Declaration of the Rights of Man" was to serve as such a contractual document. Simularly, Jefferson (then stationed in France) wished for a Declaration of Rights to be added to the Constitution.
Through his correspondence with Madison, we learn that the Bill of Rights was a compromise, and did not include some of the original rights that Jefferson vetted for (such as protection from Monopolies) and did not (until the passage of the 14th amendment 80 years later) gaurantee the rights of mankind before the state governments.
Regardless, these liberal thinkers generally viewed full democracy as inevitably degenerating into ochlocracy, and that laws should rule, restraining individuals from harming one another
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Told you he'd ignore you...
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My apologies, trying to cook dinner also here.
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excuses excuses..you always have time to point out petty unimportant things, but never have time to answer the responses that challenge your opinions.
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I keep getting told that the Democrats will be our savior. Is it still posible that people believe that our interests are his first priority?
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why don't you answer some of the responses people have given on this thread? all mouth, no trousers, eh?
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mouth in trousers?
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@ SiuilARuin.
Other than you, everyone has been answering their own questions, by commenting.
I'm just commenting right along with them. There is no right or wrong answer. It was said best up above, "When a government becomes obnoxious and obstinate, it's time to either reform it or remove it." by greencurmudgeon.
If everything were to suddenly become satisfactory later this afternoon, would you keep complaining about the past, or wait to pounce when the mistakes are repeated?-
I'm starting to think you fancy me...why else would you pay me so much attention?
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I'm starting to think you fancy me...why else would you pay me so much attention?
I wondered about that too.
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With that all being said, well, nothing actually. I have children to tend to and a camping trip to pack for. Enjoy.
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Spending money like a kid in a candy store is only going to make our grandchildren as poor as can be. You'll be paying higher taxes like you never seen before.
The government can't run anything well, and yet people want them to control the banks, healthcare, take over companies...
Time to leave this planet. Let me know when they find one that can support life out there.-
Are you suggesting that Obama's cape is misleading?
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1) Without quoting from the Democrat party agenda, (which is full of nice ideas to pretty much solve everything that ails us in the United States), how do you see our current administration "correcting" or "undoing" the nations problems?
Why don't you read Obama's plans before criticising them? Then we can have a discussion. -
Ho-hum! -
Hilarious that some still think there is a real difference between Reps and Dems.
A bedtime tale: “The Money Myth Exploded”
www.michaeljournal.org/myth.htm -
I do have to wonder what specific issues are being are dissagreed with in the current agenda. Outside of returning taxes on the wealthy to roughly Bush41 levels other than certain social issues, the agenda seems to be rather McCain-ish in nature:
On immigration;
Kennedy-McCain "Secure America and Orderly Immigration Act"
On climate change;
Leiberman-McCain "Climate Stewardship Act"
On volunteerism;
a scaled down version of Bayh-McCain "Call to Service Act"-
no answer, huh?
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were you honestly expecting one?
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@moderator,why do u say handouts? -
Oh I forgot to put my answer. No the dems aren't gonna save anything,but their own a**,but that's the same for the repubs too!
It's all about power and money! Period end of story!
There is no such thing as a public servant and there hasn't been for a long,long time.-
Y'know, I'm actually agreeing with something Holly says for once. Kodak moment?
But not entirely.
Party labels are a piss poor approach to analyzing politicians. Each one is corrupt in their own way. Same goes for anyone with more power than wisdom.
Some people claim that democrats or republicans are ethically corrupt, and cite a few specific examples. This is a fallacy of accident, though, and that's all that really needs to be said about that.
The individual politicians should each be evaluated based on their own merit. Yeah, it's not the most convenient approach, but it is the most accurate.
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the illuminati will -
That's is up to the American people and what they choose to support or not, if they demand accountability or not, if they are passive about things are not. Usually people just whine on from their armchairs, but do they act? -
yes they will save the United state. you dont know the power of a black man, but this will be first time you will feel the untaped power in a black man. if not for obama US will perish.-
you,have never seen the power of a little white HOUSEWIFE from MS either! If OBAMA was gonna save this country he would have started saving it right here from the U.S.A.. Not from an around the world in 20 tour. I don't know about you,but a whole lotta people are loosing their jobs and homes right now,while he (like BUSH) is over kissin' the CROWNED PRINCE OF Saudia Arabia's ASS!!!!!! LITERALLY,did you see the PICTURE!!!!!!
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I hate it when our leaders bow down to Saudia Arabia -
I was wonderin' where u were?
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got done playing golf and now I am home
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oh yea,race has nothing to do,with what's going on between dems and repubs
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I think both party's hands are tied operating under the current bi-partisan system. No real change is going to happen...-
yes,it is Brazen! THERE'S fixin' to be a change!
HOLLYtheHOUSEWIFE,is gonna make sure of that!!!!
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Holly:
"My father always said- don't raise your voice, improve your argument." -Desmond Tutu-
Well said
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Desmond Tutu is a Christian theologian Siuil...
or that guy from Lost -
I like that quote!!
hey,did my thread get deleted?
why didn't u tell me I wasn't ur friend?I just fig.out that all my add friends are going into my spam -
I know who Desmond Tutu is! I don't disagree with Christians just beause they're Christians...
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sure...
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oops,brazen I like that quote!
the other 2 questions were for the monkey,soory! -
@cooking
Desmond Tutu has two roles, one is as a religious leader, and the other is as a leading voice of South Africa's liberation. Be that as it may, I believe Siuil isn't the sort of person who would deny a good quote when she sees one, merely because the person who said it has a different set of religious beliefs. -
@HH really it got deleted?!? That is freaking stupid. I will make you my friend now too.
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Siuil: Thanks Well said on your end also
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@greencurmudgeon
I am very well aware. I am, however, trying to bait Siuil in any way I can. -
@cooking
Then the second part of your moniker is just and apt. -
Has baiting me become a sport here?
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LOL!!
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Holly, no worries. I got it
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no I don't know if it got deleted,I just can't find it
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wait yall back up I just got confused.what are we talkin' bout?
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now I am confused
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good,glad I aint the only one!
so what was this thread about again?-
you are allowed to read back over it, you know...
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yes,I know it was a joke. Lighten up babydoll
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yeah. how rude!
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sometimes it's hard to tell...
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it's ok. so back to obama,*the messiah* what has he done to save usa
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oh yea,absoulutely nothing.He's too busy kissn' saudi ass
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you follow politics closely?
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I bet she does!
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@siu I know I'll be glad when the keyboards are gone and we have virtual reality,it's comin'
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righto....
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I don't get it. What does that mean?
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I have sen.wicker on my speed dial
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do you follow politics closely though?
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It isn't going to be a party. It is going to be individuals. Or we go down in flames. -
I'm soooooo ready for a change that I have actually started a little
"real grass roots movement" u know not sponsored by big business,but by us -
shall I take that as a no?
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I bet HH at least watches FOX News and that counts!
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fair and balanced isn't it...?
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exactly xmarks(how ya been?)
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I'm doing alright
It will be interesting to see who's playing each other the best.
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I watch all news,and think it's all a crock of bs! They are out there covering their on coverage,it's rediculous!!!!
That's why I'm doing what I'm doing!
forget talkin heads,politicians,it's time for OUR VOICE TO BE HEARD!!!
You know,everyone in between HOLLYWOOD,NEW YORK,DC!!! U KNOW MAJORITY RULES-
so you actually don't follow politics at all.
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yes,I follow alllllllll politics very closely
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which newspapers, publications and news programmes do you watch/read/listen to?
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Suil: That's a GOTCHA question. Well according to Palin it is.
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Holly started reminding me of Palin...that's why I asked it...
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I need to ask yall's advice on something?
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sure!
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m'k this place called graphix gave is giving me a 1000 flyers a week.
t-mobile is giving me a side kick so I can be more mobile(i'm still a mama,Feelin kinda guilty being online alot)-
is that the advice question?
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@ SiuilARuin
Might I ask you to describe your political acumen?-
I'm not claiming to be an expert on American politics.
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sorry,u should read my blog,but to make a really loooooong story short I'm trying to get a congressional invite to lobby for us a stimulus/bailout. I added all the bailouts together and found out that the whole us population could've had a 6000 dollar check
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*sigh*
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Holly -
They can't just hand you over a $6000 cheque. The Germans tried this after the country reunified: the West Germans thought that handing cheques over to their Eastern bretheren would make them rich. As a German professor once told me, "You eat welfare, you don't build a future on it". Thus, the best thing that can be done with stimulus money is to build roads, or to build schools - to build something that has an economic utility beyond the money itself.
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I just got the flyers in today,gonna go tomorrow and saturate my town with them,but I was thinking about puttin' a pay pal on my blog,because I need more advertising,like decals and stuff,but I can't afford it. I still have to have lights,but I don't want people to think I'm just tryin' to get their money??? So I kinda don't know what to do
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try to get local businesses to sponsor you
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Did you try asking for stimulus money?
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I'll probably regret asking this question, but here goes.
Holly -
Let's just sake for the sake of argument that you actually get to talk to the politicians you dearly want to speak to - what precisely are you going to ask them to do? -
I'v already talked to sen.wicker's office! His pr person and I have almost become friends. They are waiting for me to get a good following
so congress can't say no-
Say no to what?
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yes, that's how government works...
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that's what I'm trying to do!
go to DC to lobby on behalf of the usa public to bail us out!!! a 6000 dollar check in everyone's pocket would do some serious STIMULATIN'
clark (sen,wicker's pr person in DC) said the only problem is,is that a civillian has never lobbied for legislation,but she did say that roger wicker could write it up and I stand beside him on the floor,but I really do wanna speak,but if I can't oh well-
I believe in you!
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did you read Curmudgeon's explanation of why your idea is not a good one?
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Holly -
In other words, you basically want to go to Washington to shake down the government for money.
If you had said that you didn't want the spending to occur in the first place, and have your taxes cut, then I might disagree, but I could respect the integrity of that position.
But this is about how the stimulus money is being spent - rather than build roads upon which the freight of America can roll, or schools which can educate the youth of America, or building new power grids which can keep homes lit, your response is, "Give me $6000".
Sorry, no sale.
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say no to a REAL stimulus bill for the USA,not just some 300$ check
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I've already explained to you the experience in Germany....just giving people money didn't work there, and it won't help the United States either.
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@green, no people are loosing their homes and job,they are gonna do this,they just don't know it yet
@monkey yea that's what some of the business are doing,but I'm gonna need more than just flyers-
holly, you really haven't thought this through at all, have you?
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Holly -
You're not paying any attention to what I'm saying. Focus. Concentrate.
Just giving money will not help. If the economy is going to recover, then it needs to have a base upon which it can recover. What's the point of manufacturing new cars if the bridges are on the verge of collapse, like the bridge in Minnesota did? What's the point of trying to encourage high tech jobs if the children turn out of schools illiterate and unable to use a computer? Spending money in these areas raises the *ability* of the country to produce wealth.
If the politicians are simple enough to ignore what happened in Germany, and I have no doubt that some of them are, the money will be spent, and then what? The problems with the roads will remain, the problems with the schools will remain - the country's capacity for generating wealth, and thus truly better outcomes for all will NOT have been increased.
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this is what i'm sayin,those roads ain't worth a damn if freight ain't moving,and guess what freight aint movin' my hubby is a truckdriver,he hasn't had a good run since jan.
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*sighs and leaves the room shaking her head*
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Holly -
So basically, we should ignore facts, history, and economics because you want your $6000.
No wonder President Obama is turning grey.
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yes,I have thought it thru,and gettin alot of help,it's just common sense. FED EX,laid off 500 last week. another 500 next week!
comcast has just laid 200 subs,including alot of my friends and family.
trucking business is going belly up left and right. all of hubby's bonuses,been cut,5 drivers laid off last week,I have an aunt who hasn't sold a house in a solid year-
Holly -
It's very clear that you are not arranging your opinion based on the facts, your are arranging your facts around your opinion. At the base of it is a primal scream, "I want my $6000", and damn anything inconvenient that gets in the way.
This approach to politics tends not to get very far. Good luck.
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I LOVE U MONKEY
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NOT just my 6000 do u work? u probably gave aig's ceo a new airplane too
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Threads like this make me lose faith in humanity...I had such a higher opinion of people before I joined BC!
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@su and green
you don't have to agree with me. but when ya get ur check in the mail I'm gonna start a told u so thread. haha-
We live in Britain..I don't think Obama's going to be sending us any cheques.
And if you get a cheque from the government I think Curmudgeon will be starting the "I told you so" thread when the US economy completely disintegrates...
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hhmmmmmm are yall livin in the same USA i'm livin
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oh then what the hell are you debatin' with me for?
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Holly -
For several reasons:
1. I'm an American, I just live in Britain.
2. No one wants to see America go down the toilet.
3. Your line of argument should make any intelligent, rational person have the hairs stand up on the back of their neck. Again: you simply have no capacity to pay attention to any perspective besides your own. -
I guess I didn't realise that I'm only allowed to have an opinion if I live in America...despite the fact that I'm better informed about it than you are.
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some people like to debate... but no one in the UK even votes
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@Siuil
The "you're a foreigner" line is the last refuge of an impoverished mind. Don't pay any attention to it. -
@ agit,hahahaha
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if u don't even live here,what's ur purpose of saying this. You don't live here. You obvioulsy don't know what's going on. Why in the world would you tell me what I don't need to do in my country,if your not even a part of my country. I'm not tellin u what u don't need to do
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my knowledge is not limited to the shores of Britain...
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Holly -
Excuse me, but most of my family live in America. So yes, I do pay attention. It is quite clear the person who is not paying any attention whatsoever to what is being said is not I, it is you. Throwing cheap, anti-intellectual rhetoric about "how can you know if you don't live here" is weak, Holly, very weak. I hear from them all the time what it's like in America, and my argument is based upon the fact that I care very much about what happens to them. The last thing I want to happen to them is for their future to be determined by someone who simply will not pay attention to any perspective besides her own!
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ooohhhhh,now I see where this is going. there is no debate here. I have 2 people that don't even live here want to see me fail. This is just old BC CRAP this has nothing to do w/what I'm trying to do.
helllooooooo u don't live here u don't know what's going on obviously,I'm not gonna wast my time arguing with some barneys on bc
HOLLA-
ha!
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Holly -
We don't have to want to see you fail. You may not remember this, but you were blathering on the other day about marching right up to Capitol Hill and talking to politicians directly. I informed you that it's not like that: there are security guards, metal detectors, etc, which prevent that kind of interaction. You didn't want to listen then - I have seen no indication that you want to surrender to reality now.
If you keep on this present course, quite independently of what I may think of you, your views, and your lack of information - one of several fates await you -
1. You'll be dismissed as a crank. Or -
2. You'll be arrested at Capitol Hill.
3. Or, you'll be spouting the same nonsense ten years hence.
I believe option 3 is the most likely.
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UMM GREEN, your family's future is depending on a HOUSEWIFE from ms,it's depending on crooked politicians who have no one's intrest at heart but their on. POWER,MONEY
btw,tell crippt keeper I said WHAT UP????-
Holly -
My family never asked for your help, my family never needed your help, and my family voted for Obama.
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OOPSY,DAISY green I meant to say ISN'T
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GOOOOOOOOD 4 THEM!
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shouting doesn't make you right...it just makes you obnoxious
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who's shouting,I'm writing! hello you can't hear what I'm typing.GOOD LORD!
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typing in capitals is the equivalent of shouting online...do you understand, sweetie?
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Holly -
That won't wash. Using all caps is well known to be the internet equivalent of shouting. You, yourself are using capital letters in this fashion.
So yes, you were shouting. Now you're just trying to make up some silly excuse to pretend you weren't.
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Holly, if they give us $6000, we will only have to give it back later with interest.
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not if the Rapture happens first
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hahahahah
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I'M NOT HELPING YOUR FAMILY,I'M HELPING THE FAMILIES THAT WANT THE HELP!
When I get to DC I'll tell them to send your families check to ST.JUDE-
If a politician explained to you what curmudgeon did would you ignore them too?
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Holly -
Do you really think they're going to present you with a list of names of people for you to tick off for who gets a cheque and who does not? -
I bet she'd look for "Mr & Mrs Curmudgeon"!
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what did cur do?
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No,I was being sarcastic DUHHHHH
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someone like you really shouldn't say "DUHHHHH"
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Holly -
Given your previous utterances, you're hardly in a position to say "DUHHHH" to anyone.
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@X no we won't
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DUHHH,DUHHHH,DUHHHHH, I might just tm that! lol
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well that's us proven wrong...
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This is just soooooooo funny. I can't stop laughin' I'm debating 2 people who think the American public shouldn't receive their hard earned tax dollars back,that they just gave to line the pockets of a whole lot of CEO'S!!!! to bail their business out of the red.
AND THESE TWO AREN'T EVEN CITIZENS THEY LIVE IN LONDON,good lord I just waisted a whole lotta time.
DAMMIT TO HELL!!!!!-
why is it, do you think, that your idea isn't sweeping the nation?
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DUHHHHHHHHHH!
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UMMMM,have ya gone over to twitter lately,hmmmmmm
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do your keys stick? is that why all of your words have 5 extra letters?
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I'm doing it the right way,I aint selling out. I have these markerters mouths's watering for me,but I ain't selling out
HELLOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!-
well you must be right then...screw logic! screw history! screw economics! Holly the Housewife knows better than everyone even though she doesn't know anything...
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no I just like to annoy people! who get offended by letters of the alphabet!!!! hahahahhatehehehaha
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you're not annoying me Holly. I think you're hilarious...I just feel sorry for America.
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YEA! I don't know anything. Try tellin' that to........307,688,542 people who are scared of loosing their HOUSE,CAR,JOB,HEALTH INS.
but I don't know anything. HMMMMMMM
I'm sorry for ya,yall need a little additude adjustment!-
you know there aren't that many people in America, right?
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AWE! WELL I DON'T,I feel sorry for people who are so insecure about themselves that they think that it's fun to down someone for chasin' a goal!!!!
but whateverrrrrrrrrrr I'll pray for yall's hearts to soften!-
the fact that your plan is a really bad idea has nothing to do with me being insecure...nor does that fact that you don't have any idea what the population of America is...
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that's not what census,said last week
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from Wikipedia:
306,380,000 population
May 9 2009
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yall still didn't answer my question,have u been over to twitter lately?
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no I haven't...twitter isn't my thing. I have read a book in my life though.
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well hunny,ur gonna have to take up the pop. issue with the census people
and my BAD PLAN your the only one who said it's a bad plan and ur not even a citizen-
I'm the ONLY one? really? you really have no grasp on reality do you?
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yup,u and little mr. greendude! EVERYONE ELSE HERE u kno in the USA thinks it's a GR888888888888 IDEA!!!!!!
so go back to ur tea and crumpets babydoll!!!!
I'm not trying to get ur attention,I need my peeps! u know actual citizens
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THX, SIU I guess they had a typo last week or somethin,THAT'S EVEN MORE MONEY WOOOOOOOOO HOOOOOOOO!
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HOW YA LIKE ME NOW? Hey,where did yall go? it's no fun lookin like an idiot huh?
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you tell us...
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UMMMMM NO I'm not the idiot.HELLOOOO I'm the AMERICAN CITIZEN,HERE trying to help out another AMERICAN CITIZEN! you're the lundy lady who has no clue,So u tell me how does it feel?!
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I'm just going to leave you to it...obviously you know everything and I know nothing...you're an AMERICAN CITIZEN after all...
HOLLA -
careful, she may infiltrate your UK Politics Group
...oops
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HOLLA,HUNNY
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no way no how! I would never do that! I love where I am too much! I just wish they could see what really is going on over here.
ya know millions out of work,no homes,no health care! -
you can't hang? with the HOUSEWIFE?
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I really do feel sorry for those 2. I'm just gonna pray for them. That's all you can do.
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if it makes you feel better to talk to yourself, you go ahead and do that...
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I'm not talkin' to myself babydoll,have you seen all the people watchin' the thread! they see 2 brits that think they know what's up when they really have no clue!
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if you had paid attention to anything anyone else had said you would have noted that Greencurmudgeon is American, he just lives in Britain. And believe me...we aren't the only ones who think your idea is bad.
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well sui,I did pay attention,what's the point of debating with someone who doesn't live here?
That's ok if people from the uk think what I'm doing is bad.It's not gonna be the end of the world. I have many more supporters who think that it's a great idea! can't please everyone. -
and If anyone does disagree with me,they can take their stimulus check and send it to St. Jude. It's an AWESOME hospital right here in MEMHPIS TN! I'm sure they would be more than happy to receive (money from people who don't need it)
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Hey, I'd love a $6000 check. Sign me up. A bird in the hand is worth two in the Obama.
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you honestly don't understand what's wrong with this idea either?
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The hell with ideas! I just want the six grand.
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@ SU no he obviously understands everything that's right with this idea,u know actually being a citizen! Actually having your tax dollars handend over to the CEO'S OF AIG,THE BIG 3,and all the big banks!
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@ nothing,u stick with me,a PROUD CITIZEN OF THE U.S.A.! and I'm gonna get u your 6 grand!
I think all the other citizens of the U.S.A. who don't need the 6 grand are gonna donate it to this HOSPITAL IN MY TOWN CALLED ST. JUDE!!!!!!! IT'S AN AWESOME HOSPITAL! -
Holly, try living in CA...we are literally being squeezed to death by taxes. -
St. Jude's? Wasn't that started by Danny Thomas?
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WELL HELL 2 THE YEA!!!!! that's what I'm talkin' bout! You obviously must be a citizen of the GOOD OLE U.S.A.!!
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I think the economic situation is a lot more complicated than saying one specific party will save the day.
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Agreed. The time has come for American citizens to own up to their own responsibility for the collaspe and to contribute to recovery. And no $6,000 scheme will result in economic recovery.
More that 40 % of American families spend more than they earn. In fact, the average US family’s credit card balance is now almost 5 % of its annual income (with a median U.S. household income presently at $43,200), and personal bankruptcies in US have doubled in the last decade and the overall consumer debt has reached $2.46 Trillion as of June 2007 (excluding the $440 billion of revolving home equity loans, $600 Billion owed for second mortgages and an overall $9 Trillion in mortgage debt). As such, the total US consumer revolving debt grew to $904 Billion in 2008.
Consider, the total US debt is 3.5 times the GDP. Until this debt is reduced, there is no recovery in sight.
The second wave of mortgage defaults will peak in 2010 and the third in 2012 when the peak of 5 year r and 7 year AMRs reverts to the prevailing interest level. Is anyone imagining that the interest level in 2010 will be lower than now? Yet, better than 50% of AM-morgtage holders that are currently defaulting cannot pay the current interest rates.
Look for large numbers of small business failures, retail merchants, small banks, small cities, and on and on. The bottom has not been reached; merely a plateau.
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@jflower
baby I know! That is what my whole plan is about! Giving back some of the tax dollars to the U.S.A. citizens who earned them! Well not just the tax payers,but the WHOLE U.S.A. POPULATION! even the ones on WELFARE! Even the ones that never paid a tax in their life.
the entire U.S.A. could have had a check of 6,000 dollars,with the bailout bills that were just passed!!!!!!!! -
I'm sorry tt,but I just got to the word scheme,and decided to quit reading. I can see I'm not wanted here so
HOLLA-
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Holly doesn't like facts and figures...she prefers ill-informed opinion and complaining about the government and the occasional HOLLA
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? The word scheme means a systematic plan of action.
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Beyond the obvious derision for the stimulus plan; might I ask, for any benefit that might manifest for the improvement of our infrastructure, in the long term will the gains outweigh the requisite taxation that "will" occur for repayment? Is there a certain sector of said infrastructure that will yield the most benefit? A report came out today that with the rising unemployment levels it will have an adverse effect on the President's promise to create 3.5 million jobs. Would you not agree, with any level of intelligence, that the wasted money on the pork within the stimulus could have been used as an anticipatory tool to hopefully offset the increase in job losses?
To greencurmudgeon; how much money will have to be spent on the infrastructure of education before we see any correlative benefit? The argument has always been proposed that we do not spend enough on education, so how much will be enough? Give me a round number, even if speculative. Where will you get the money?
To SiuilARuin: I asked you a question regarding your political acumen, you responded that you are no expert. So I re-phrase; you have offered an opinion on American politics therefore an inclination to do so infers knowledge or experience on the subject matter. If it is not the aforementioned, American politics, do you then draw from your constitutional monarchy? How would your government handle our current crisis?
You have derided HollytheHousewife for her posts and overgeneralized her to appear obtuse. So I ask you, do any of you two have experience with economic theory, regardless of the school you refer to? If not do you just follow and take as truth in efficacy the plan from our current administration?-
@ liberty
Will u marry me? hahaha -
@libertylight
I don't believe I have anywhere suggested that I am an economist or that I know how to solve the financial crisis. Nor have I expressed any expertise in America politics. I have not given an opinion on the bailouts or the stimulus package or any of the Obama administration's economic policies.
I have been talking about Holly's idea that every American citizen should receive $6000 rather than investing that money in saving big companies. GreenCurmudgeon has succinctly explained why this is historically a very bad idea.
Once everyone gets their $6000 and spends it on a few months rent or a car or whatever Holly wants to spend it on what happens then? Are there any more jobs for people like Holly and her friends? Or does the collapse of big business so that she could have $6000 have an effect on not only CEOs but everyone who works in those big organisations? and everyone who works in companies that do business with those big corporations? and everyone who does business with them? And how about internationally?
giving everyone $6000 and allowing huge companies with greedy executives to collapse might seem like a nice idea in the short term but once you've used up your cash the situation will be ten times worse.
I'm not saying it's been handled brilliantly, but Holly's solution is a terrible idea.
And the reason I derided her should be apparent from reading her comments.
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@ timethief: "Agreed. The time has come for American citizens to own up to their own responsibility for the collaspe and to contribute to recovery. And no $6,000 scheme will result in economic recovery.
More that 40 % of American families spend more than they earn."
My responsibility? I did not buy a house I couldn't afford, I do not overcharge and live beyond my means. I try to run my own business and create jobs as needed. So tell me, what share is my responsibility?-
@ 86 uh huh.someone can save the country!
It's called the REPUBLIC OF AMERICA!(hence u and me and all the rest of the citizens)
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no one can save any country. it's just a matter of time.
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@ liberty ur last statement isn't entirely true
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Let me be clear that I do not purport to exclude the Republican party from their culpability on this matter. In fact, the derivation or causal factor lays with the American people. Our complacency with regard to letting all politicians act without checks and balances has led to our own financial imprisonment.
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Please explicate.
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oh,@ liberty
like I was saying
WILL U MARRY ME? -
If you get the $6000 dollars... :-)
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oh u GOLD DIGGER!
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It's all for the taxes, I swear!!!
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yea,I believe it
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We are in big enough trouble that I don't think any party is going to save us from ourselves. We are bloated and dying on this capitalism frame of mind we live in. We don't know who we are anymore or where our backbone is. Even our biggest of businesses are living on welfare and putting their hands out for free cheese.
That doesn't mean I don't love my country. It means that like an obese relative, I just hate seeing it go like this. The government isn't who we are supposed to be made of. It is real people and real determination. The government was never meant to have control. Did you give them permission to bail anyone out? I didn't. None of my neighbors did. None of my family in other states did. In fact, I haven't spoken to anyone personally that says they had anything to do with that. Yet, by mass betrayal, it has been done.
All we have to say is "I want my $6000? Oh good Lord.
We don't make anything worth buying anymore. Where is our pride? I would trade my $6000 for a big slice of pride in the quality of our products, our effort, our country.
It won't be until those with their hands out and waiting finally realize that their hands will not be filled, that the real question that should have been asked all this time.
What the hell do I do now?
We will have no choice but to stand up and dust ourselves off and realize that we cannot keep living like this. We will decide in that moment that we are looking at the wrong person who will fix this problem. The Government did not fail us. We failed ourselves. Because you see, we are no good to anyone if we are not taking care of ourselves. We failed to take care of ourselves and then blamed our government for making bad choices. A $6000 check in the mail isn't going to fix anything if all you are going to do with it is more of the same.
Holly.. you got half of it right. Stand up and do something even if it won't work. Perhaps that kind of spirit will give some people the courage to try out their ideas. Somewhere along the way, we might just get a solution. I don't think your idea about the money is good, but I think your idea about getting off your butt and trying to do something is wonderful.-
THX,I THINK,BUT WHAT SOOOOO FUNNY ABOUT ALL OF THIS is I can count on one hand the people who thinks it's a bad Idea. I can't count the number to the people who think it's a good Idea.So I'm just glad I live where the MAJORITY RULES!
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Holly, what's sad about that is majority is not suppose to rule.
We were founded as a Republic, became a Democracy and have since become a Socialist Democracy. -
@rfburn
we are supposed to be a republic,but none of the reps are doing their jobs,so that's why I'm gonna do it for them! -
I'm with you Holly
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Looked at your site again, pretty good. You're probably on a watch list though...
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@annasellers: elegant.
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whatta u mean? watch list?
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The DHS report that was leaked a little while back. It enumerated and classified the reasoning and group formations that law enforcement agencies should look for.
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For all intents and purposes you are antagonist and therefore a possible danger. You have not read it?
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well I wish they would look for me. I've been tryin' to be found now here for a couple of weeks! hahaha
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lol
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anyways,what's ur story???
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No. I want sociialism. I want to see all the Republicans put into Re-education camps. I want religions all made illegal. Lock up all the Ministers, and Priests for Re-education also. I then would like to see us Nationalize everything. Well, I guess that's it in a nutshell. Now to begin your training I need all of you sheep to go to my blog right now, and begin reading all of my stories and posts. Memorize everything. You are having a test in the morning: improvisationaloblivion.blogspot.com-
well baby move to IRAN! all your wishes will be come true! If it doesn't work out for you there try north Korea,I hear the famine is great this time of year!
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Sorry, in your world blogs are censured and banned...
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Oh, well, that's a secret.
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Where can we find this watchlist?
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@rodaniels: Well I am a capitalist, so.. pay me first.
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@jflower36: This link should work: wnd.com/images/dhs-rightwing-extremism.pdf
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Interesting, but it doesn't look that classified to me...I'm thinking it's a hoax.
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I gotta go my hubby makin me go to bed!
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Short leash huh?
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very,short
but at least he falls asleep fast! haha
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It's only 9:30 here, time to hit the bar.
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Westcoast huh?
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Nevada, actually.
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It's way too hot there.
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Great site you have, the Wine: Moderation is the Key, is something I forget every time.
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Thanks...you should also check out "How Does Parying Affect Your Health"...:P
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That report has been verified, a friend I have with the local police force have received similar documents. However, if it is a hoax it is a good one.
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Well I'll have to take a closer look then..
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Where is that?
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You're going to give me a complex.
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hahaha....well moderation in everything, right?
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Ooooo, I guess you're riiigtht. :-(
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You're a smart guy. I just looked at your blog and I think I may need to get a dictionary!
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Don't tell anybody else, I may raise an expectation for myself.
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Your secret is safe with me
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You have a great night, hopefully we can talk tomorrow! Take care.
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You too!
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We give convicted felons 3 Hots & a Cot. Plus medical dental, and eye care. Maybe grandma should hold up an Exxon??!! -
Sure.
If they go all the way back to at least FDR and undo nearly everything they have done since that point in time.
Not that the Repubs haven't done damage of their own, they've just done far less.-
inclark
I agree with you on OBAMA running a flawless campaign,but ALL of them run FLAWLESS campaigns.
HOW CAN U TELL WHEN A POLITICIAN IS LYING? when he opens his mouth!
everyone knows that! -
the genius of obama's campaign was the website! He took all of McCain's legislative ideas and put them up as his agenda. What was McCain supposed to do, say "I'm for all the same stuff except for taxes, and what war we focus on"?
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Both parties have become center left with the Demons way to the left. Our founding fathers were more right than center right. They believed in less government but since January 2009 we have become almost a government controled country. Our founding fathers would see this government closer to king Henry's than what they founded.
To answer your question they will save this country by changing it to a socialist not a republic. But that will fail shortly and we will be a second if not third world country by then.
Just take a look at the history of the Soviet Union. Only the elite have food, electricity, etc. We my friends are not the elite.
I will say this about President Obama he ran a flawless campaign by tricking millions into voting for him. Their lives will not get better but those who lived better than them before will be brought down to the level they lived at. They will then have millions more to share their pain.-
I was not tricked. I am not in pain.
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I hate to rain on this parade, but technically SOME of our founding father were Right-wing and some Left-wing (by the definition in those days). The right wing wanted to maintain vestages of the monarchy and aristocracy as being guardians of social order. Those who dissented wanted a limited government where the law was king, and where privilege was granted by government to none. This movement of social reform was the source of our Bill of Rights.
It is unclear in my mind how the Young-Hegelian Karl Marx has ever been associated with "Left" ideology as his philosphy maintains no true Liberalism from the Jacobins.
In any case, the modern DLC driven democratic party is more Hegelian than "Left"-Hegelian.
As the originator of the the modern ideology of limited government stated the case:
"Being myself a warm zealot for the attainment & enjoiment by all mankind of as much liberty, as each may exercise without injury to the equal liberty of his fellow citizens, I have lamented that in France the endeavours to obtain this should have been attended with the effusion of so much blood. I was intimate with the leading characters of the year 1789. So I was with those of the Brissotine party who succeeded them: & have always been persuaded that their views were upright."--Thomas Jefferson -
inclark I wrote it in the wrong spot,look above
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Holly, where's my six grand? I checked today's mail, it wasn't there.
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the investment bankers got it instead
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Filthy scum! Still, they probably need it more than I do.
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Obama spent it on class to become a stand-up comic.
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well @nothing,I gotta get the legislation passed first hunny. Then you'll get ur 6g's
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Holly's going to get legislation passed! Pigs are going to fly! Snowballs will exist in hell!
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still waiting for my 6k. Get going Holly!!
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ummm it's the sunday,I don't work on sundays,sorry
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You don't have a job to take a day off from, Holly.
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being a housewife is a job...duh!
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I so would love to see sati:1 be on hold for 2hrs.while
2 changing a dirty diaper
3 while paying your light bill online
4 still on hold w/mort. co.
5 makin' PB&J's for lunch
6 unloading dishwasher(still on hold)
7 hubby's gonna be home this weekend gotta make sure house is imaculate8 feild day at j-bug's school!
9 finally get off phone,just to have somebody else call(needing)10 on line trying to save hubby's job and economy 11oops j-bugs home time for homework
12 cooking dinner
13oops forgot tomorrow was alien day at school,gotta make costume 14 the 2nd half of my day starts
15 after tubbies n lulubyes I get to have the honor of talking to u good people! So I can achieve my goals!!! the only part that sux is some of u are way to insecure,so it makes ya feel real good to beat down someone.
The difference between ME and everyone else, is yall have tried to bully me. I have a HEART for u guys and pray for u every night to let your heart soften a little!
I can't imagine what it feels like not to have BIG DADDY on your side! -
Well that sure told us...obviously no one else has children or cleans their homes.
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@ the rose girl
you obviously missed my point,but that's ok. now run along a play with ur little click!!! I'm prayin for u -
I SURE DO LOVE THAT MONKEY!!!
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YEA! *she says smiling w/no clue in the world* look on her face
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We need some candidates that espouse Jeffersonian virtues. That's the only answer
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We need more voters that understand Jeffersonian virtues.
Excuse me while I go google Jeffersonian virtues -
wikipedia probably has something good...
I can only assume it means socialist government takeover -
It's on one or both of my blogs
The orange one (Rights of Mankind) is the probably best synopsis
@cook. It is small government egalitarianism. -
It reeked of effort.
I choose ignorance regarding Jeffersonian virtues. -
@cook: I see you've upped your dose of LOL monkey pills.
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that's fine. It's what I told Cook
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*outlandish monkey noises*
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At Agit8r
So like a socialist utopia?
maybe I should just read your blog instead of judging the header
So that has way to many words for me...I am a picture guy -
Here, this one is short. it is my first blog entry, and gives a brief synopsis
jeffersonsmammoth.blogspot.com/2008/12/toward-self-governance.html
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@SiuilARuin: In effect, you have given your opinion, whether you acknowledge that fact or not. If I may be candid, your derision infers a superiority with reference to HollytheHousewife's statements,which in turn presupposes her viewpoints are invalid or without merit. You proposed some questions to me, which one could extrapolate that you have better conclusions. Please share. And don't answer that you are no expert, for I agree. Just purvey a counterpoint.
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I wasn't expecting you to answer those questions, I was explaining why I thought holly's idea was stupid. I saw fit to deride holly because of the way she conducts herself around here. She ignores what other people say to her, either because she doesn't understand it or because she doesn't like being disagreed with. I don't think that 'HOLLA' is a very good argument.
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da da da dum dum dum (the wedding march)
ur my knight in shining armour!!!! I love it,just missin' the white hoarse! -
well rose,I'm sorry you feel that way,now why was my idea stupid? If you don't mind can ya put it in HOUSEWIFE terms?
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Helloooooo rose,are you gonna answer? Why is my idea stupid?
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I won't call it stupid but I will say again that if the government were to cut us a check we will have to pay it back with interest. The government is not in a surplus. The source of the government's money is our tax payments. If it has to borrow to pay us now, it will have to bring in more taxes in the future to pay us back.
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I can say with all sincerity that even though I may disagree with someone I have never called them stupid. Regardless of the subject matter or which side of the argumentation you prescribe to, civility and gravitas should maintain their presence within a conversation. Viscerally tainted viewpoints only show a lack in aptitude.
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I totally agree w/ my knight in shining armour!!!! and all those words,I bet half of u don't know what they mean either,but I bet ur gonna look em' up!
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HEY VOO DOO! I still love ya!!!!
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I'm only 19. You're 28.
(28/2)+7 = 21. Since I am not 21 years old, your statement is therefore creepy.
xkcd.com/314/ -
I don't think she meant romantic love VK. I've said that to you and never meant it romantically...but you know that
It's just that you're so darn cute! -
I'm being facetious because she says that a lot (also facetiously, I think), and I find it very disconcerting.
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exactly J, I don't think his mom tells him enough! That's why I say it!
I just know I'm gonna look up and see a little peaceful VOODOO avatar one day! THAT'S WHAT LOVE DOES! it softens your heart!!! LUV YA VOODOO,but sooooooooo not in a romantic way!!!! hahaha! I'll start sayin' that! would that make it better! Even voodoo kobra's need to hug it out sometimes!!!!
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I have the feeling rose isn't gonna tell me why my idea is stupid.
It's probably,because she can't find a reason why it's stupid.
I'll still wait though-
I have already explained above why I don't think your idea is good.
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Do we need a new topic?
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(1-4) Invalid choices.
No one party--no one group of people can force their will on everybody for long. If the people themselves don't support and work towards a common goal, whether its crime, politics or the economy, then nothing will ever get done.
I don't care what political party you claim to belong to. If you don't like where things are, go out and change them. It's up to each and every one of us to tell our politicians what we want, it's not their responsibility to tell us. Once you let them do something in the name of the American Taxpayer, they'd best make sure their constituents actually agree with them.
This is the Internet Age. This isn't the days of the Pony Express. This isn't Telegraph or even Telephone. Every single one of us has a voice and every single one of us needs to tell our politicians what we want them to do for us.
Abraham Lincoln had it wrong in the Gettysburg Address. "...government of the people, by the people, for the people,..." has perished from this Earth. But it doesn't have to be. WE are the People. Our politicians are there because we PUT them there. If you don't agree with what your Representatives and Senators are doing, then make your feelings known to those politicians. Let us not be the "Silent Majority" any longer!-
Intelligent and well stated.
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well hello have u ever read my blog! I am gettin the hell up and doing something,go over to TWITTER @hollythehousewi is my name follow me. guess who I got a dm from today TOBY KEITH! WOO HOOOOOO!
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"Neither a leader nor a follower be...." I chose the handle 'Vulpine' for a reason, I am not a sheep to follow the goat to the slaughter, nor am I a goat to lead the flock into annihilation. I am a fox who stands aside and watches, adding my voice when I think it can be heard.
I know what my representatives are doing. They have web pages I follow and comment on. My state emails me weekly with what my representatives have done in the House and Congress. If I disagree with them, I let them know. Everyone can do that; even you. -
this is true, public engagement
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