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Christians go to heaven, what about many others?
Posted by nugieshare • 7/20/08 • Subscribe to this Discussion [RSS] • Report This Topic
Tags: heaven saying
I am interested in how scheduledoctor is commented when he asked, "Can a non-Catholic go to heaven?" This is as what he wrote:
I am really curious about this one. Even as a Christian, do Catholics believe that only Catholics go to heaven? Can one believe in Christ but not all of Catholicism and not make it through the gates?
Many answers say YES. What about others? Do you think that heaven is only for Christians or say Catholic?
User Comments
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No.. HEAVEN IS FOR ALL >....ALL!!!!
Jesus Saved HUMAN KIND when he died on the cross...
Catholics have been shown the WAY and accepted it.. hence it may be easier...to enter the gates of heaven...-
i wont open the gate for you GFG. you don't belong there
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Not at all. Born and raise a catholic we've never been taught that you have to be catholic. Yes, some will argue it, but the basis of catholicism is accepting God as your creator and that Jesus died to forgive your sins. You accept that and try to lead a good life and you're able to make it.
I prefer to think that an atheist who has done a lot for their community has a better chance than a catholic who killed an abortion doctor. :\-
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If there is heaven then it is for all. I never heard non catholics will not go to heaven. Ya the old system of Roman Catholics propogated by The Old Pope has gone. I believe they teach the same as it is told in the Bible. -
If the argument is that all people from all religions end up in heaven, couldn't be farther from the truth. Ain't getting into it either, this is thousand-year old news.-
thousand-year old news, you say!
If we talk about it now, how can you go back to the years!
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If we are talking about a place called Heaven or Hell, it is strictly a temporary place that is projected by thought in the part of us that exists before, during and after human birth, for lack of words we'll call it a soul. This would be equivalent to various planes of consciousness that are mentioned in some of the Buddhist texts, Hindu texts and other writings of Mysticism.
The Eternal life spoken of by Jesus has zilch to do with Heaven and is another state all together, the equivalent in Eastern texts would be Sahaj Samadhi. In this state a being can consciously take form at any moment anywhere at any time in history or in times in the future and in any world or planet. Jesus is a protoype for all humanity.
The is a large difference between heaven and Eternal life, however most people would object to this idea.
There are many worlds that are accessible both before and after death, but in truth they are merely projections and ultimately pass away but there is an eternal witness that sees and pretends to experience things from multiple perspectives.
The Tibetan Boo of the Dead is an interesting read on life beyond the body. A number of Tibetan Rinpoches travel through these worlds at will, as do the Saints of Sant Mat and other genuine Mystics.
Most of what you encounter on death is dogma and uninformed dribble. The pathway into other worlds is via the area just between the eyebrows. At it's lowest vibration the sound that is used to travel on is a high pitched ringing sound that emanates from the middle of the head. It needs to be consciously moved to the right ear. By concentrating on this it will eventually morph in the sound of harps ( think King David) and the sound of the flute (think Krishna). The sound may also take on the form of a bell, or the sound of a trumpet as you pass into other states, also lightening is common as well as the feeling/ experience of exploding into light. Generally a person is conscious/ semi conscious while this is happening, thee is also the sound of water, this is common. I was showed this technique by a friend of mine in 1987 and it is a method of vacating the body. Most genuine prophecy is written in this state, as well as the ability to move between other layers of consciousness. This is a state past what is known as Nirvana. The states that people experience after death are accessible prior to death, I am adamant about this and regardless what anyone said to the contrary, this is a fact. -
Since heaven is a fictional construct, no one is going there.-
Ah great lauracamfield your gong to hell for that...
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why not continue this thread on the original one. There is no need to start a separate thread.!-
I agree. -
I agree Tony, but only you got the power. -
Here we go again.
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Heaven and hell are in our mind, they are in our heart. Although lauracamfield suggested that "heaven is a fictional construct, no one is going there", it does not mean it does not exist at all.
To believe or not to to believe depends on how we understand the term of heaven firstly came people's mind. It has been reported as a reward for the believers.-
If there is no evidence, then its existence cannot be proven.
Occam's Razor: If there are two explanations that differ slightly, the simpler one is preferred.
Since existence is a binary concept (it exists or it doesn't exist), we will look at the only two explanations.
Explanation 1: There is a heaven, only those good of heart may enter (along with conflicting requirements set by every religion that preaches about a heaven or hell). For whatever reason, we are unable to prove its existence right now.
Explanation 2: There is no heaven. -
wrong placement
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Existence of God/ Heaven/ Reincarnation cannot be proved. Either because it does not exist OR because we do not possess enough knowledge to prove it.
I don't think that God( read Christ/ Allah/ Bhagwan...) is an egotist who will grant better after-life to those who just pray to him. I guess, if you live your life in the right way, you'll get a good after-life no matter what your faith be.-
I'm not sure I understand this reasoning...
...why can't it just all stop one day?
And the right way idea!
Do you think anyone really wakes up on day (or every day) and thinks, 'I'm going to live my life the wrong way today, and maybe for all the days after that, depending on how it works out!'
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Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha
The Zen Buddhist just laughed so hard that his bladder exploded -
If only Christians go to Heaven, then there's more room on Earth for others. -
Too much smog up there. In any case with global warming heaven will eventually be as hot as that other place. No advantage then. -
We go to Vegas.-
I go to Rio
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Fine, you and your denomination can have Rio, but we're visiting for the Rock in Rio festival once a year.
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Every person, religion, country... think that they are THE ONES, that they are right, that they should go to heaven...but who really knows??? Try to make yours and other people's life easier and at least it will be nicer down here.
To claim that only such or such category of people is entitled to go to heaven is really a selfish claim but a good way of getting more followers...-
They can have heaven, give me a Lowden Acoustic any day
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Heaven is where Andrés Segovia plays guitar all day without getting tired.
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Its not that someone thinks that they have to do the wrong things in life...may be they just don't think. Its easier to take the unconscious, hedonist decision, than think and decide.
As long as you don't hurt anyone else and treat others the way you want to be treated ; you'll get heaven after death and may be vegas/rio before
As of me, I would rather believe there is a God and die to find out there isn't, then to not believe in God and die only to find out there is. -
Make a good in all aspect and don't hurt anyone, make a good thing for yourself and everybody. Not bother other religion is a good way... Heaven for all who believe God -
But what about those who do not ascribe to christian ideology? Those for whom heaven holds no appeal and hell holds no fear? Saying they go to hell for not believing makes as much sense as a Hindu expecting you to believe you will be reincarnated upon death, and your karma will dictate what your next life will be experienced as. The Hindu believes it and may modify his behaviour to improve his karma...but it means nothing to those who do not share his beliefs. -
Oh goodie. It's Sunday on BlogCatalog.
And no I did not bump this thread: www.blogcatalog.com/discuss/entry/christians-go-to-heaven-what-about-many-o...
(Logging out now before I offend anyone.) -
God made a way for all to be able to go, but since we we are not forced to receive it, not all will. The way is the cross, not the name on the church door.-
Indeed, everyone is invited but not all accept the invitation.
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I guess that means I'm going to see Moses in hell.
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The invitation is heaven TT I am sorry that you see it the other way.
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@pamelabaker
I have survived near death experiences and a terminal illness. I have entered a "no-self" meditative state daily for over twenty years and therein I have experienced the deep peace that passes all understanding. It's my policy to decline all invitations to ascribe to belief systems that contradict my own spiritual experience.
I do not appreciate what I consider to be self righteous spewing of religious mumbo jumbo that IMO stands as evidence of brainwashing being passed off as valid discussion material on this BC forum.
Bearing in mind the fact that you voluntarily choose to embrace a belief system based on fear, guilt and what I consider to be superstitious nonsense, I find myself hard pressed to offer you anything other than than my sympathy for your loss. -
I am not mocking your experiences TT but you seem to have a hard time with mine.If you have peace then you should not be upset with what anyone else thinks or says.
People who have different views are entitled to discuss them, they are not spewing them, nor is it brainwashing to discuss views that are different than your own.
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Being stuck in heaven with a bunch of religious nuts would be hell.
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Being stuck in hell with the religious nuts who were wrong would also be, well, hell.
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@nugieshare
a lot of Christians and Catholics in particular will not be in heaven.
re: what Catholics believe, it's a matter of terms and what they mean to different people and different communities, specially amongst differing communities within Protestant Christianity.
For example, some Christian communities (fundamentalist Protestants) use a terminology and apologistics of "I'm saved", implying once saved always saved by the coming to knowledge and acceptance of messiah Jesus at a singular point of time. These groups do claim an attaining of heavenly salvation to the exclusion of all others, outside their circle of doctrine.
This is of course not an orthodox catholic understanding of salvation simply because Catholic Christian teaching is always cognizant of the mercy of a Creator whose ultimate authority can allow grace to flow where he wills it.
Basically the question is faultly right from the get-go as scheduledoctor is thinking with the mindset of a Protestant.
Regarding Catholics who fall away from the faith,
these can in most cases be individuals given full knowledge of revealed truth who thereafter reject it but are still accountable for this rejection before a God and creator. Therefore, from a Catholic perpective, Catholics are held to a greater accountability then non-Catholic Christians and non-Christian communities with regards to holding to spiritual truth. A fallen away Catholic who isn't practicing what he/she once professed as the fullness of Christianity are in grave danger of not attaining salvation, graver stil than those entirely outside the communion of Catholic Christianity.
Returning to the original post "many others" are left to the mercy of God and a culpable ignorance of the doctrine of the faith meaning they are NOT immediately condemned to hell by not being believers of Catholic Christianity.
Think of it this way, if Catholic apologists aren't constantly proclaiming their own final salvation because of a conversion experience at one point in time ("praise the Lord, I was born again September 29,2002) then how can they possibly project a lack of salvation upon others? -
Well... "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." John 14:6
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."
John 3:16
You have to believe in Christ Jesus the ONLY way to get to the Father who is in heaven on earth(eternal life). I don't think it matters what denomination you are a part of because in the book of Revelations Jesus talks about the different churches (denominations) and explains what they have done well and where they have gone astray.
So read the Bible and learn to love the Lord the way he loves you!-
Thomas, your testimony is beautiful. I just popped over to your blog too. It is good to hear how He has uplifted you. Keep the faith.
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Well Said!!
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[You have to believe in Christ Jesus the ONLY way to get to the Father who is in heaven on earth(eternal life). ]
So all those people who never heard of Christianity are essentially screwed, eh? It's nice to hear how kind and loving God is. -
@Thomas,
"Well... "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." John 14:6"
no doubt however, Jesus is quoted teaching many things including the parable of the Good Samaritan (who would have been considered by his southern Jewish neighbours outside the rightful authority instructing in Jersualem and worshipped in the Temple) which starts of with a question put to Jesus,
And behold a certain lawyer stood up, tempting him, and saying, Master, what must I do to possess eternal life? Lk10:25
and ends with Jesus asking and answering,
"Which of these three, in thy opinion, was neighbour to him that fell among the robbers?" But he said: He that showed mercy to him. And Jesus said to him: "Go, and do thou in like manner." Lk10:36-37
Those of the rightful authority receiving instruction from the seat of Moses in the parable did not live out the faith as fully as one who was not under the fullness of instruction yet without full knowledge of this lack of fullness, the Good Samaritan is an example Christ himself elevates as example for the rest.
Luke 10:25-37
25 And behold a certain lawyer stood up, tempting him, and saying, Master, what must I do to possess eternal life?
26 But he said to him: What is written in the law? how readest thou? 27 He answering, said: Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with thy whole heart, and with thy whole soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind: and thy neighbour as thyself. 28 And he said to him: Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live. 29 But he willing to justify himself, said to Jesus: And who is my neighbour? 30 And Jesus answering, said: A certain man went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among robbers, who also stripped him, and having wounded him went away, leaving him half dead.
31 And it chanced, that a certain priest went down the same way: and seeing him, passed by. 32 In like manner also a Levite, when he was near the place and saw him, passed by. 33 But a certain Samaritan being on his journey, came near him; and seeing him, was moved with compassion. 34 And going up to him, bound up his wounds, pouring in oil and wine: and setting him upon his own beast, brought him to an inn, and took care of him. 35 And the next day he took out two pence, and gave to the host, and said: Take care of him; and whatsoever thou shalt spend over and above, I, at my return, will repay thee.
36 Which of these three, in thy opinion, was neighbour to him that fell among the robbers? 37 But he said: He that showed mercy to him. And Jesus said to him: Go, and do thou in like manner.
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@voodkobra
It would appear that some believe that those who don't believe in a supernatural triune god (God, Jesus & Holy Spirit) will be condemned by their loving god to be burned alive in hell fires at the end of time.
They even go so far as to praise one another for using this BC blogging forum to proselytize (used for works written with the intent of converting the reader to the author's religious viewpoint example: "everyone is invited" ) us with this claptrap on a daily basis.
And, when they are caught out proselytizing and evangelizing (the Christian practice of preaching the Gospel of Jesus to both Christians (i.e., Orthodox and Catholics) and non-Christians) they claim they are being prosecuted.
lol How delusional can you get?-
Opps! I mistakenly misspelled "persecuted" above.
Either that or it was a Freudian slip. -
voodooKobra said: So all those people who never heard of Christianity are essentially screwed, eh? It's nice to hear how kind and loving God is.
I don't know if you know this or not but there are record numbers of people converting to Christianity. Many Jews are starting to convert and a major movement is happening in Iran. For the people around the world there is TBN. In addition to their flagship network, TBN also offers other cable/satellite/digital subchannel networks in the United States. As of 2006 TBN's broadcast signals are carried by 67 satellites and cover every inhabited continent, spreading the Gospel. So it shouldn't be long until the whole world will have the chance to listen to the Gospel. Plus there is the Internet. Plus there are missionaries who go all around the world to spread the good news.
Oh by the way my God loves everyone, even those that don't believe. He doesn't comdemn you to hell, you make that choice, you chose not to believe in his Son, so essentially you have condemned yourself. God Bless and peace be with you!
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Every being gets to go to Heaven. I said so. -
Yup, EVERYONE is invited! Keep in mind, that you are the one who'll decide whether or not you want to join, others can't RSVP on your behalf.
RSVP, folks, sooner than later. Surely, you'll miss out in more ways than one if you ignore or decline the invitation!
Eeeeehaw! -
Personally, I think it's wonderful to believe in a loving God.
And, I certainly can't stop you from believing in a God who condemns anybody who doesn't worship Him to eternal torture.
But I really think you need to choose between the two, because saying they're one and the same is ludicrous.-
@drjay1966
Next Sunday I am contemplating beginning a series of instructional BC forum posts on the true nature of the schizophrenic Christian God, as depicted in scripture. I'm sure once everyone has read their Bible and ascertained the degree of psychosis attributed to this non-existent non-being they will be lining up in queues to carry their crosses all the way to the mythical gates of heaven. -
Just as a woman does ... God has the right to change His or Her mind whenever it suits. No need to choose.
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@Theresa111
If there were a heaven then it would be a pleasure to enjoy it with you.
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It's bad luck to be superstitious. As a Guaranteed Christian, I bask in the glory of knowing that I have Guaranteed passage through the Pearly Gates. -
Did you miss the weekend message?
It was here, at Harvest...Friday thru Sunday...watch the videos of all three nights!
www.harvest.org/crusades/2008/anaheim/ -
what if all the people who thought they were going to heaven didn't and all the people who thought they weren't going to heaven did? That would be a hoot. I have never met a true Christian yet, meaning one who loves G-d with all their heart soul and body and their neighbor as their self. I believe religion can cause hate. I believe where ever you find love you find G-d a love so great that even if someone does not agree with you instead of being hateful they love you unconditionally.
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The Scriptures tell us that Jesus tasted death for every man. -
Anyone ever here the term the good book, reffering to the bible ? This book has been re-written more times, and by many people over time. As with any book there is a certain element of truch that started it all, the rest is just fiction.
One thing i do know is each and every one of us has the power to choose our destiny, but some of you may call it devine intervention.-
When people say "The good book," I usually think of His Dark Materials by Phillip Pullman or The Antichrist by Friedrich Nietzsche.
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@ThomasCSlater... Do u actually believe in what u have written ????
I don't think religious fanatics remain religious for long
"He doesn't comdemn you to hell, you make that choice, you chose not to believe in his Son, so essentially you have condemned yourself."
doesn't this sound like "You don't like my son.. I don't like you " -
I didn't make the rules, I just follow them the best I can.
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What if the rules you follow are the wrong set? What if Islam is right? Or Judaism? Or Mormonism? Or even Satanism?
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@voodooKobra...Did you know there are thousands of prophecies in the Bible and they have all come true? If you didn't know the Bible is made up Sixty-six books written by many people over hundreds of years how could they all be true? Every prophecy has come true or will regarding the end times. One prophecy that I know you know about is Israel becoming a nation again. This has come true sixty years ago and it's a miracle that they are still there surrounded by countries trying to destroy them. Don't take my word for it, read the Bible and do research.
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I just have to ask this question to the religiously inclined folk.
I have always wondered what your perception of heaven actually is?
What about when you need the loo, are there toilets in heaven? How about time, is there a 24 hour day?
In heaven do you have to obey your master - God, by pampering him with chocolates and grapes? What would you do in heaven???
In Islam they believe in 72 virgins await you. How the heck does that work? Does this mean there are beds, condoms, nightclubs in heaven?
The mind boggles. -
Those of you that said heaven is for everyone obviously know nothing about Christianity or the Bible and those of you that actually believe there is a heaven are nuts. ;-) -
Ahmm... very interesting.. what heaven is all about... but for the sake of discussion lets just assume that there are two possibilities after life: One Good, the other bad. And let us call the good one heaven and bad one hell. kinda settles the matter for now.
What if the book is not wrong, what the God said is not wrong, but you interpreted it wrongly ? Won't that be an eternal sin??? What if the God never specifically asked to be praised and worshiped without knowing why? What if the God never asked to surrender the mind? What if the God did not ask for conversion to Christianity?
What if he is not the egocentric being that we think he is? Why do we think that God (the benevolent, the merciful) is so crazy that if two people behave in exactly the same way, he'll grant one heaven and other hell just because one praised him? Do we think that God wants us all to be a mindless syophant?
I guess there is some gross misinterpretation of God's intentions... -
You can consult auto heaven. I think this is automated.
www.autoheaven.org-
weblogian: Sir, there is no autoheaven for everyone is nafsi-nafsi if he wants to get
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Christians? Yes. Everybody else? They're on their own.
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Doesn't that seem rather selfish?
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our God is impartiality, Catholic, Christian, Moslem, Hindu, Budha
we all got Sin, we must obey 10 God's Rule or go to.................... hell-
That's a rather narrow way of looking at things. "Follow God's 10 rules or burn for all eternity." What about people who live their entire lives ignorant of all religion? What about scientologists?
What about other religions that believe in different gods? What kind of loving god would immolate someone for an infinite length of time for BEING LIED TO? What if you're being lied to, and the real god is Shiva?
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For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. (John 3:16)
Don't see anything there about religion, 10 rules, or what church to go to.
BTW..."believes in him" would be the definition of Christianity, not anything else. -
This whole discussion reminds me of an intersting quote by Woody Allen:
If Jesus Christ came back today and saw what was being done in his name, he'd never stop throwing up. -
Even if we go to heaven we would ask jesus, when are you going to take us to heaven!! Even the heaven cannot satisfy us!! Because, we are......human beings -
Jesus is just a man... For me he is not god nor son of God.
I believe that every one has the right to go to heaven with or without Jesus -
This is a duplicate thread and there was no reason to bump your own thread without adding any value to the discussion.
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