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CHRISTIANS vs DINOSAURS
Posted by wozog • 2/02/08 • Subscribe to this Discussion [RSS] • Report This Topic
Topics: religion, science
Christians do not believe in dinosaurs. They can’t because dinosaurs lived on the earth millions of years ago. Christians believe the earth is thousands of years old…not millions. Some Christians believe that dinosaurs existed along with humans but were killed during the great flood. However this does not make sense because GOD said to take two of every animal. So did Noah look at the dinosaurs and say “these guys will not fit inside the boat so let them die…..” So is it possible to believe in Dinosaurs and be Christian????
User Comments
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This is factually inaccurate. A small percentage of Christians, generally of the evangelical fundamentalist persuasion, believe that the earth was literally created in six days and is only several thousand years old. The vast majority of Christian religions do not espouse this view.-
So what are their views? Every Christians belief seems to be different.
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Wozog, you are aware that there are a myriad of different Christian denominations? Asking Tiffany to summarize those on this thread is asking her to go way beyond the call of duty. Perhaps you could do a little research on your own first.
On a related note, this topic has been done to death on BlogCatalog lately. -
It's certainly true that every Christian sect's beliefs differ--that's why the original church has split into more than 10,000 divisions. That's also why it's usually inaccurate to make a blanket statement like "Christians believe". Christians believe that Christ was the son of God and that he was crucified to save us. Beyond that, you will likely find a Christian sect to disagree on virtually any point you raise.
I certainly don't know what all of them believe.
I'm Catholic, and the Catholic church teaches that evolution is well established science and in no way inconsistent with the concept of a Creator.
I've had occasion, as a teacher, to visit the very conservative Christian school Wheaton College--a school where students sign a pledge not to drink, smoke or dance during their tenure at the school--and seen a mastadon in the science building.
But I couldn't begin to cover every view out there in the wide range of Christian communities and belief systems.
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wozog you saw zeitgeistmovie.com ?
15:25-15:27
The December 25th birthday denoted to Jesus Christ, as stated by the narration, is not written in the Bible, although it is practiced traditionally. However, this date, known in the Pagan world for the birth of the 'Sun God' at the Winter Solstice, is in fact implied by the astronomical symbolism during the birth sequence.
More on this point is addressed in the Interactive Transcript.
After watching this documentary..I don't know if I should believe the bible. I still believe that someone superior than us exist, God.-
Wait. After watching a documentary that told you something wasn't a literal date and CONFIRMED THAT THE BIBLE NEVER CLAIMED THAT IT WAS, you doubt whether you should believe the Bible?
I'm not sure I understand this. The point you raise about the pagan origins of the date are well known in the Christian world--Christmas is hardly the only Christian feast intentionally organized to coincide with a pagan festival. -
The Bible is supposedly God's perfect Word. It contains instructions to humankind for avoiding the eternal fires of hell. How wonderful and kind of this God to provide us with this means for overcoming the problems for which he is ultimately responsible! The all-powerful God could have, by a mere act of will, eliminated all of the problems we humans must endure, but instead, in his infinite wisdom, he has opted to offer this indecipherable amalgam of books called the Bible as a means to avoid the hell which he has prepared for us. The perfect God has decided to reveal his wishes in this imperfect work, written in the imperfect language of imperfect man, translated, copied, interpreted, voted on, and related by imperfect man. No two men will ever agree what this perfect word of God is supposed to mean, since much of it is either self-contradictory, or obscured by enigma. And yet the perfect God expects the imperfect humans to understand this paradoxical riddle using the imperfect minds with which he has equipped us. Surely the all-wise and all-powerful God would have known that it would have been better to reveal his perfect will directly to each of us, rather than to allow it to be debased and perverted by the imperfect language and botched interpretations of man. The Bible is NOT perfect. It is not the Word of God.
It's hard to believe that the very book used in churches and Sunday school classes around the world includes some of the worst examples of sex and violence in written form. It's also rather amazing that this source of negative influence on our children has been overlooked for so long. A considerable effort has gone into banning such books as "The Diary of Anne Frank" for its author's sexual comments, and the "To Kill a Mockingbird" for its discussion of violent rape. Many other books have been banned or exposed for their violence, murder, and cruelty. And yet the Bible, full of the very same demented activity, has yet to be exposed. So as to permit our readers to decide for themselves, let's take a look at just one form of "indecency" in the Bible. I urge you to study all of the "Evil Bible" with the assistance of the excellent websites, The Evil Bible and The Skeptic's Annotated Bible:
Rape is one of the most heinous crimes imaginable. The Bible condones and even approves of it. How anyone can get their moral guidance from a book that allows rape absolutely amazes me.
(From Chapter 21 of Judges NLT)
So they sent twelve thousand warriors to Jabesh-gilead with orders to kill everyone there, including women and children. "This is what you are to do," they said. "Completely destroy all the males and every woman who is not a virgin." Among the residents of Jabesh-gilead they found four hundred young virgins who had never slept with a man, and they brought them to the camp at Shiloh in the land of Canaan.
Obviously these women were repeatedly raped. These sick bastards killed and raped an entire town and then wanted more virgins, so they hid beside the road to kidnap and rape some more. How can anyone see this as anything but evil?
In this book that was allegedly the Word of God, there are even rules about rape:
(Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NLT)
If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.
What kind of lunatic would make a rape victim marry her attacker? Answer: God.
(Deuteronomy 22:23-24 NAB)
If within the city a man comes upon a maiden who is betrothed, and has relations with her, you shall bring them both out of the gate of the city and there stone them to death: the girl because she did not cry out for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbors wife.
Boy, talk about victim's rights! It is clear that God doesn't give a damn about the rape victim. He is only concerned about the violation of another mans "property."
I've often thought that 'moral' Christians were hypocrites; obsessed with preventing sex while promoting a book that is packed full of sex. Beyond sex, the amount of violence that permeates the Bible is astonishing. In verse after verse we find murder, torture and dismemberment.
It's time to remove this sexually explicit and violent material from our kids' eyes. The Bible is one of the worst offenders, not only because of the level of sexually deviant and violent activity, but because it is so widespread and easily available.
The time has come to put the Bible in a plain brown wrapper. -
@KatherineCleave:
>>From Chapter 21 of Judges NLT)
So they sent twelve thousand warriors to Jabesh-gilead with orders to kill everyone there, including women and children. "This is what you are to do," they said. "Completely destroy all the males and every woman who is not a virgin." Among the residents of Jabesh-gilead they found four hundred young virgins who had never slept with a man, and they brought them to the camp at Shiloh in the land of Canaan.
Obviously these women were repeatedly raped. These sick bastards killed and raped an entire town and then wanted more virgins, so they hid beside the road to kidnap and rape some more. How can anyone see this as anything but evil?
I don't see what's obvious about it. You are drawing conclusions. Obviously evil, but not obviously what happened.
>>In this book that was allegedly the Word of God, there are even rules about rape:
(Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NLT)
If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.
What kind of lunatic would make a rape victim marry her attacker? Answer: God.
What kind of lunatic would force a man to work and care for his victim for the rest of his life? ... this is a very different culture than the Western one we live in. Very different sensibilities. This law has to be looked at in the light of the culture it occurred in.
>>(Deuteronomy 22:23-24 NAB)
If within the city a man comes upon a maiden who is betrothed, and has relations with her, you shall bring them both out of the gate of the city and there stone them to death: the girl because she did not cry out for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbors wife.
Boy, talk about victim's rights! It is clear that God doesn't give a damn about the rape victim. He is only concerned about the violation of another mans "property."
This isn't about rape, it's about adultery. Since she didn't cry out, it is assumed to have been consensual, and since she is betrothed, adultery. Harsh for sure, but the law is making plain that if one is being raped, it's better to call for help than let it happen - and you certainly didn't want to get caught fooling around whilst betrothed.
Now, this whole rape thing has been done to death a bazillion times, and it's usually done in the light of modern Western values being applied to law laid down in a different culture thousands of years ago.
Not only this, but over and over these quotes from the Hebrew Torah are laid strictly to be the fault of Christianity, demonstrating not only the short-sightedness of the one who first did this "research," but everyone afterwards who mindlessly repeats it.
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Christians cherry pick what to believe and what not to believe out of the bible.-
Like the extermination of the witches and satan?
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No. People who would like to identify themselves as Christians without actually surrendering their lives cherry pick.
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"Christians do not believe in dinosaurs." We don't? Then I guess I'm not a Christian.
"However this does not make sense because GOD said to take two of every animal" He did? And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark, to keep them alive with thee; they shall be male and female. - Genesis 6:19. Looks to me like he said two of every SORT (species, type, kind). Dinosaurs were reptiles. We still have reptiles today don't we?
"So is it possible to believe in Dinosaurs and be Christian????" Absolutely. I'm living proof of it. The only think you need believe in to be a Christian is Jesus Christ as the living son of God who was sacrificed for your sins, and rose from the dead after three days.
"So what are their views? Every Christians belief seems to be different." Wait! I'm confused, you just wrote a post telling everyone what Christians believe and now you're asking what our views are? Huh?.
Edit: To clarify I don't believe dinosaurs were wiped out by the biblical flood described in Genesis. I'm pretty confident they were gone well before that.-
so are you saying that dinosaurs evolved into reptiles?? -
No, he's saying that there are many kinds of reptiles, and that the reptile "sort" was clearly represented.
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Madame X do you believe in dinosaurs yes or no. If you do then what do YOU feel happened to them?
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Yes, I believe in them; in fact, the question strikes me as absurd. But given the fact that great scientists have devoted entire careers to explaining their disappearance and only come up with plausible theories, I can't see how a writer from the midwest with no science background can possibly be expected to explain. I've frankly never given the issue any more thought than was required in my high school science classes.
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I am Christian and I believe you can not believe in Dinosaurs or Evolution you can only believe in Jesus. There is no proof that dinosaurs even existed.
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Why do you think it's inconsistent, jswy?
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There's no proof? Are you serious or just pulling our legs?
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Dinosaurs we have proof of. They existed. That is a fact.
However, there is no proof whatsoever that there is a supernatural God.
There is also no proof that Jesus was the son of god.
There is also no proof that Mary was a virgin.
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If you go any museum the Dinosaurs are not real! they are made of some kind of plaster. So where are the proof of the bones? The bones they find underground are bones of regular animals but the scientists make them look like a dinosaur. If you take a giraffe's bone and break it down, you can put it back together to look like a dinosaur.
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How come there are so many different species and they are approved by Scientific research?
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Okay, back up. I don't want to debate the legitimacy of dinosaur bones with you...just an answer to my initial question. What do you think is inconsistent about dinosaurs and Christianity?
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what a nut...
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@Jwsy
Actually your god just put the bones there to trick us. He loves a good joke.
Some would question what planet you come from. I don't. Earth is a fertile breeding ground for nonsense. No need to look any further. -
@jswy315: Those "bones" aren't bones at all. They are rock. But, the chances of finding rocks in strata that are different from the surrounding rock, in shapes that are so close to being bone-like that they match what bones should look like and be shaped like, often in arrangements that actual bones would often take, over and over and over again, are so astronomical it's not worth the energy to think about it.
In short, you know squat about archeology, or fossils. I believe that pretty much does in any baloney about dinosaurs not existing as bunk on your part. I can put forth tons of evidence dinosaurs existed; you have no proof of a grand conspiracy to develop, manufacture, distribute and propagate fake dinosaurs with the notion that every single person involved in these fields is in on the joke.
What's next? The Earth is flat, I suppose?
edit: And, no, you CANNOT remake a giraffe into a dinosaur.
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Dinosaurs and Christianity? Millions and Millions of years vs Five Thousand years? A TRUE Christian CANNOT believe in Dinosaurs. That hurts the Christian Faith.
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I'm sorry, I must have missed the "five thousand years" thing in the Bible. Was there some point in the gospels when Jesus said, "and since the earth has only been here for 3,000 years..." or some such that I've overlooked?
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A true Christian is delusional. To believe in that for which there is no proof is obviously delusional.
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The 5000 year debate is not biblical.
A monk counted the generations from Adam, and concluded that the earth must be about 5000 years old. It was never cast in stone (like dinosaur remains are :)), it is just some monks opinion.
As for evidence of dinosaurs - a scientist who goes around putting plaster instead of actual fossils in a museum must have a very good reason for it. But there are fossils. I've seen one, not in a museum, looks like an archeopteryx. It was definitely not a cast, it was real.
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ARGH
you cannot categorize every christian with some stupid ass theory you've read on Teh Interwebs.
you really want a conversation, do your research first and start a THOUGHTFUL conversation instead of attacking a BROAD group of people with stupid half-thought theories.-
Then you should watch the movie www.zeitgeistmovie.com They did their research and bring solid theories that will make boggle your mind.
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*sigh*
you know, i kinda like conspiracy theories. they're fun.
but the bulk of that is a load of freaking crap.
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5 thousand was just a ball park number. But if you start from Adam and Eve to the birth of Christ. The genealogy speaks for itself. A professor on Religious studies at Harvard did the math. He read the manuscript carefully and saw that it contained the history of a period of 5,500 years, i.e. from the creation of Adam to the birth of Christ, and that it was a historical chronicle based upon the Scriptures. Christians will understand my point.
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I can assure you that the vast majority of us will not.
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lmfao ... bravo, madame X ... well said.
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Sorry but I don't understand your point. Probably because you don't have one.
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jswy315, that's about right. According to the bible. man was made six days after creation, about 6,000 years ago. As you can see, most Christians don't want to admit to this because it contradicts science's calculations of earths age which happens to be more reliable.
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I have a question. The bible says Cain killed Abel, and then was banished to live with the others. What others?
King James Version:
Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me.
Who will find him? There are only 2 other people on the earth, namely Adam and Eve.
Unless...
NO! The Bible can't be inconsistent. Surely not. -
jswy315,
In Jesus' day they also thought the world was flat! And for all anyone from the bible knew, North America did not exist, however, Considering many of us live on North America, I'm pretty certain that it does. Have you ever heard of carbon dating? Scientific evidence that species' resembling man roamed the earth hundreds of thousands of years ago? Also, young child, you may not realize, but you are not doing Christianity any favors by speaking such uneducated sludge. Every word you utter on this topic, is 10 steps backward in credibility.
Everyone else,
If she really believes this nonsense (which it's so ridiculous, it's possible she is just playing and watching the show), then she is completely uneducated AND delusional. Not even being a Christian myself, I realize that she is one of those rare individuals giving the majority of Christians a really bad rap.
What's ironic is that I just posted a list of annoyances, and one of them had to do with people who don't "believe" in dinosaurs.
Those damn dinosaurs are an urban myth that just won't die! -
[A professor on Religious studies at Harvard did the math]
Funny, one would think at Harvard they could find a professor of mathematics to do the maths.
I'm curious to know what the professor of mathematics makes of theology, once he returns from his obvious absence. -
Mathmaticians tend to be skeptical of theology.
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Can you back that up, Morgan? I can see why at a glance that would seem a logical assumption, but it doesn't seem to hold true in the sciences and I'm not sure whether or not it will in mathematics. Do you have some data, or just making an assumption?
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"It just doesn't add up." - anonymous mathematician on theology.
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I've encountered this from several resources before, but I think the most recent resource I heard the stats from was on the "Irreligion" podcast for John Allen Paulos a Professor of Mathematics at Temple University. - www.pointofinquiry.org/john_allen_paulos_irreligion/
I think this was the one, but I'm not sure, I've listened to almost all of the podcast on the site.
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hahaha-
Don't laugh at them, I enjoy the show
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Some believe the return to stoning of witches would solve all such problems.-
When you say "all such problems", to what are you referring?
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let those without stupidity cast the first stone
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Now you've done it, Ender.
I have this great joke...
(and everyone so wants to stay on the religion theme, right?)
Jesus and Mary were out walking one day and came upon a crowd of people about to stone an adulteress. Jesus stepped into the middle of the crowd and said, "Let whomever among you is without sin cast the first stone." Immediately, a rock whizzed passed his head, narrowly missing the woman. Jesus turned and said incredulously, "MOM?" -
heh
yeah, i've heard that one before ... love it.
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Getting stoned to death.
I wonder how much weed you have to smoke for that?
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Madame X I will pray for you.
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jswy, if you're the true Christian that you claim to be, you will pray only that God's will be done and let him determine the specifics. Placing orders shows a bit of a lack of faith, don't you think?
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HAHA! jswy315, That's hilarious.
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Wozog, I answered this question for you when you left a comment about it on my profile. I made my point clear that there is absolutely no dissent between Christianity and the existance of dinosaurs. So why are now coming out and making this ridiculous statement to the whole forum?
If you are going to litter a profile with a comment, at least take the time to read the answer. Your apparent lack of doing so only furthers the theory here that you have done no research whatsoever before espousing a blanket statement about a group you obviously know little about.
If you want to single out a group of people for something, at least have enough respect as a fellow human being to get to know that group first. -
so i guess those bones they find in the the ground are just worthless rocks! Come on People!!!-
too much thinking for them. Not enough faith.
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Look I found lot of dinosaur bones..Am I RICH?
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I've never met a Christian in my life who thought that dinosaurs didn't exist or that thought the earth was 6000 years old. This is the most retarded discussion we've had on here.-
So how old do Christians think the earth is then?
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roughly 4.5 billion years last I checked.
There is absolutely nothing in the bible or in traditional christian teaching that makes any of the claims you guys are attributing to "christians."
The explanation I saw above was "some guy at harvard calculated it." What the hell does that have to do with Christians, genius? Think before you post. You just made yourself look like an uneducated ass by assuming that all members of one of the major faiths in the world don't believe in dionsaurs.
Have IQ's dropped incredibly tonight? -
what is your source for "roughly 4.5 billion years"?
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Are you mentally challenged or is this a joke? I suspect your capable of accessing a search engine yourself and googling for sources.
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Your sarcasm is noted, however unjustified. I thought it was interesting, a quick search on Google for the keywords "how old is the earth" returns a first result of "The Earth is accepted by scientists to be around 4.5 billion years old. How do we know the Earth is this old? Some of the lines of evidence for an ancient ... - source - www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-age-of-earth.html
Lot of evolution and anti-creationism information on this site - www.talkorigins.org/
Would be quite interesting for a creationist to use this as a source to determine the age of the earth. More cherry picking perhaps? -
kdawg, there IS a substantial minority among Christians that believes just that: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Young_Earth_creationism
In fact, there has been much controversy concerning a movement to prevent tour guides and literature at Grand Canyon National Park from providing history that contradicts the idea that the earth is less than 10,000 years old. If I'm not mistaken, that movement has actually been successful and references to the age of the earth and the area's development over time have been removed from official literature. -
operative term being "minority," which means by default that the majority do not believe this garbage.
morgantj, you previously commented:
"jswy315, that's about right. According to the bible. man was made six days after creation, about 6,000 years ago. As you can see, MOST (emphasis added) Christians don't want to admit to this because it contradicts science's calculations of earths age which happens to be more reliable."
Hopefully you understand the difference between "minority" and "majority."
The use of "most" in your coomment is flat out absurd. Also, please show me where in the bible it says 6000 years to be the age of the earth? -
kdawg68 said, "please show me where in the bible it says 6000 years to be the age of the earth?"
let me put it in your words, "Are you mentally challenged or is this a joke? I suspect your capable of accessing a search engine yourself and googling for sources." In this case, I suspect you're capable of reading the bible by yourself.
The use of "your" in your comment is flat out absurd. It should be "you're capable" not "your capable". Got it genius? Have IQ's dropped incredibly tonight? -
After your bombastic claims and ridiculous commentary, you attack grammar that cannot be edited. How impressive. See further down in the thread, your absurdity is further challenged.
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FREE ovaltine for everyone!
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Is it chocolate or malt?
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Can I have two cups? -
whoever believes this non-dinosaur/6000 year garbage is drinking a helluva lot of kool-aid on top of the ovaltine.
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I thought this was two football teams, I was going to go for the underdogs.
I'd consider the Dinosaurs as guests because most were vegetarians, but when I thought it through I thought msybe they'd break the furniture. So eventually I decided I'll go for the Christians, we might have a little fish and then sing a few gospel tunes, I'll have the tenor parts. -
Here I thought this was another "versus" thread. I was going to vote for the dinosaurs. [shrugs] -
we'd totally kick dinosaurs asses anyway.
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Of course the Christian team will be victorious!
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Well, if we had any reason to take on the poor dinosaurs--but what have they ever done to us?
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They merely lived!
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I am a devoted Christian, and I believe there were dinosaurs. I don't know much about dinosaurs to speak intelligently about them, so I won't even TRY to answer the question, or try to reconcile the two with some sort of timeline.
I WILL say that many Christians DO believe there were dinosaurs (in fact, I don't know that I've ever met a Christian who questioned the existence of dinosaurs). I think the main thing I question (along with most Christians I know) is the timeline and the use of carbon dating to "prove" when dinosaurs lived, as carbon dating has been shown to be inaccurate.
There are many references in the Old Testament to Leviathan, which many Christians and Christian scholars have come to believe is some type of dinosaur. The word Leviathan comes from the Hebrew word "livyathan", which has been defined as:
" 1) leviathan, sea monster, dragon
a) large aquatic animal
b) perhaps the extinct dinosaur, plesiosaurus, exact meaning unknown
Some think this to be a crocodile but from the description in Job 41:1-34 this is patently absurd. It appears to be a large fire breathing animal of some sort. Just as the bomardier beetle has an explosion producing mechanism, so the great sea dragon may have an explosive producing mechanism to enable it to be a real fire breathing dragon."
Taken from Blue Letter Bible. "Dictionary and Word Search for livyathan (Strong's 03882)". http:// cf.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?
strongs=H3882-
Bravo, Kristi. Thanks for enlightening the naysayers of the Christian biblical worldview!
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Why do people keep stating their title before their beliefs? For example, I am a Christian, therefore I believe in...
Instead of "I believe in... therefore I am a..."
As soon as you slap a title down before your belief or non-belief, you are putting yourself in a uncompromising restrictive position where you look for things to believe in or not to believe in to support the title. This mentality more often then not misdirects one away from the very truth that one is seeking. This backwards mentality often creates confirmation bias, ignores convincing opposing evidence, and simply makes one less reasonable.
www.travisjmorgan.com/blog/2008/01/23/avoiding-a-backwards-mentality/-
What the heck? Sorry, this doesn't even make sense.
The very first statement by the question-asker was "Christians do not believe in dinosaurs." Therefore my response is "I AM a Christian and I DO believe in dinosaurs."
To make the statement "I believe in dinosaurs, therefore I am a Christian" as you suggested doesn't even make a LITTLE bit of sense. Sorry, but I think your attempt at "reasoning" is a bit backwards. -
@ morgantj: kind of like making the jack-assed statement that you made earlier, you mean?
"...According to the bible. man was made six days after creation, about 6,000 years ago. As you can see, most Christians don't want to admit to this because it contradicts science's calculations of earths age which happens to be more reliable."
Right....because that oozes openess and understanding, and doesn't conflict with "opposing evidence" that "most christians" do NOT believe this.
Oh man, it's quite amusing to watch you keep going. Please do tell more. You want us to "admit" something by your own words. Are you suggesting that most christians secretly don't believe in dinosaurs, believe the earth to be 6000 years old, and are consciously witholding their belief from public consumption?
I've been waiting through several posts for you to make a coherent reply. So far all you've done is attacked grammar that can't be edited. Impressive. -
don't give it a moment's thought kristilinauer - I think this morgantj guy has some serious mental issues.
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He doesn't like it because you silenced the naysayers of the Christian biblical worldview. He thought he had a leg to stand on - that the Bible is in opposition to dinosaurs. Good ole Leviathan had a purpose in scripture!
Before you know it, Morgan will become a follower, advocate and teacher of the biblical worldview. Can't you see his teaching gift? I do. The gifts and callings of God are irrevocable. -
and kdawg68, I've been waiting for a post where YOU make a coherent reply, but instead they are riddled with name calling and sarcasm. I gave you some of your own medicine and you have an aneurysm. You like to dish it but you don't like your own medicine.
I asked you what is your source for believing that the earth is roughly 4.5 billion years" which you blew off by saying, "Are you mentally challenged or is this a joke? I suspect your capable of accessing a search engine yourself and googling for sources."
How nice.
So I provided the first source google came up with as you recommended since you couldn't provide it yourself.
I thought it was interesting, a quick search on Google for the keywords "how old is the earth" returns a first result of "The Earth is accepted by scientists to be around 4.5 billion years old. How do we know the Earth is this old? Some of the lines of evidence for an ancient ... - source - www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-age-of-earth.html
Lot of evolution and anti-creationism information on this site - www.talkorigins.org/
Would be quite interesting for a creationist to use this as a source to determine the age of the earth. More cherry picking perhaps?
You name-calling and misdirection techniques are sad. You don't provide evidence or sources for your information. Are you able to have a conversation without calling names? I used your own words and referenced how they applied to you yourself, and you have a sissy fit.
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For understanding as to how Christianity and Science work together, READ this book (taken directly from Amazon link):
"What's So Great About Christianity" by Dinesh D'Souza
www.amazon.com/Whats-So-Great-About-Christianity/dp/1596985178/ref=sr_1_3?i...
*Why Christianity explains what modern science tells us about the universe and our origins--that matter was created out of nothing, that light preceded the sun--better than atheism does
*How Christianity created the framework for modern science, so that Christianity and science are not irreconcilable, but science and atheism might be
*Why the alleged sins of Christianity--the Crusades, the Inquisition, the Galileo affair ("an atheist's fable")--are vastly overblown
*Why atheist regimes are responsible for the greatest mass murders of history
*Why evolution does not threaten Christian belief, but actually supports the "argument from design"
*Why atheists fear the Big Bang theory and the "anthropic principle" of the universe, which are keystones of modern astronomy and physics
*How Christianity explains consciousness and free will, which atheists have to deny
*Why ultimately you can't have Western civilization--and all we value from it--without the Christianity that gave it birth.
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About the Author
Dinesh D'Souza, a former White House domestic policy analyst, is currently the Rishwain Research Scholar at the Hoover Institution at Stanford University. He is the bestselling author of What's So Great About America, Ronald Reagan: How an Ordinary Man Became an Extraordinary Leader, and many other books. He can be reached by e-mail at DineshJDSouza@aol.com.
BTW, happy learning!-
I've met Dinesh D'Souza before.
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Where and how, kdawg68?
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global girl, thank you! I will buy the book, woohoo! -
It was when he was talking about a book he released years ago. From memory it was something like "What's so good about America?"
It had some rather interesting philosophical things to ponder, such as how if Ghandi had tried his pacifistic revolutionary practices on another European power, say Germany, he would possibly have been killed. It's a touchy subject but it suggests that part of the credit for the reversing of social ills is due to the perpetrators of said ills when they recognize them and change their ways. Sort of like the religious ferver that led to the abolition of slavery within European nations and ultimately the U.S.
Anyhow, all that doesn't matter here....I read the book, thought it was interesting and went to a PR event in NY City if memory serves....it was either there or L.A. and watched him talk about the book. Afterwards you could get signings and such. Cool guy, very open and easy to chat with. -
Thanks, Gratcia! I'm simply providing some credible resources for both sides to study and learn!
Kdawg68: Cool! I heard Dinesh speak about this same book as well.
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wow, look at how respectful the creationist are to each other, but they call names at anyone who challenges their beliefs instead of simply explaining.
It looks like you are set in your ways and are overly defensive because of it. I am receptive of views that oppose my own. Obviously you only want to defend your views instead of improve their accuracy.-
Something that is perfect doesn't need you to improve its accuracy, mind you, by the way...who are you so we should listen to you? *I wonder, ck ck ck....* and the only ones who are whining for prove me prove me is you, we don't need to convince ourselves, we believe, while you, you even need to prove that what you don't believe is true or not true... no wonder you confuse yourself.
Not sorry, I don't mind being set in my ways, actually, that sounds good,thank you. And being defensive, lmao.... that's only in your own imagination my friend, and I believe you believe in nothing so anything can goes up there -
Morgan, wait, a review of your comments shows you have played dirty several times over with your attacks and negative commentaries towards those of us who do believe in a Creator.
A civil discourse will take all of us farther along in our learning than name calling. -
Whoa! Anyone who claims their beliefs are perfect is someone to be skeptical of.
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globalgirl, the only reason I had to get dirty was because the people here want to play in the dirt instead of have a civil conversation. With a thorough review you will see that I simply used their own dirty words back on them who used them on me. And I showed references at how they applied. I didn't want to go there, but kdawg68 in particular keeps insisting on name calling.
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now he assumes we are incapable of scrolling up and reviewing comments.
Apparently he forgets making these statements before anyone "got dirty" with him.
-"Christians cherry pick what to believe and what not to believe out of the bible."
-"According to the bible. man was made six days after creation, about 6,000 years ago. As you can see, most Christians don't want to admit to this because it contradicts science's calculations of earths age which happens to be more reliable."
-"too much thinking for them. Not enough faith :)"
All this before the current exchange. Laughable morgantj. We all feel so bad for you. How dare we be meanies to you. -
Perfect! you see, there is absolutely no name calling there. Thanks for proving my point.
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can you not read? your last comment stated:
"the only reason I had to get dirty was because the people here want to play in the dirt instead of have a civil conversation."
This is clearly not the case for anyone capable of scrolling through a conversation. -
Yes kdawg68, I gave your dirty words back to you. I did not want them. I wanted to talk about the topic of the thread. You think you can stay on topic without name calling now?
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Congratulations on having successfully derailed the topic.
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Yes you did, congradulations. Were we supposed to allow you to continue to make absurd statements without pointing out your inaccuracies?
Okay, you can have the thread -it's yours. Please post all your thoughts on the subject. I shall not reply again. -
Morgantj, I have learned to never take you (yes..YOU) seriously, so blah blah blah blah...go on, be skeptical about me and blah blah blah blah...bwahaha...
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GratciaNulis said, "blah blah blah blah"
I will have to be skeptical of such remarks as "blah blah blah blah"
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HA! Thanks for bringing the topic back on track jungl.
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That was a great clip.
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Looks like Morgan got befuddled with the biblical reference to Leviathan and the book, "What's So Great About Christianity" by Dinesh D'Souza.
Still engaged, Morgan?-
Oh the fire breathing dragon, yea, quite engaging.
And the book "What's So Great About Christianity" by Dinesh D'Souza. I didn't see anything about dinosaurs. Was that just some kind of creationism promotion? -
Are you saying that within the last two hours, you purchased the book and read the whole thing? Interesting.
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You want to see anything about dinosaurs, I suggest you watch Jurassic Park, it will blow your mind, scientific, you'll love it
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kristilinauer, Did I say that? NO. So of course not. I read her post that goes in some length over the topics it covers and nothing suggested dinosaurs. However there were a lot of ant-atheistic and pro creationism topics. Interesting indeed. Thanks for allowing me to clarify.
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GratciaNulis, sounds like you enjoyed that movie. Good for you. I'll check it out.
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Firstly, realise that the leviathan is part of Judaic folklore.
Contrary to popular belief, the old testament was written by Jews! Not Christians.
Also note that the leviathan occurs in Isaiah(Isaiah 27:1), a book by a prophet. This means Isaiah refers to a leviathan at some point in the future, not from the past. That rules out dinosaurs.
The other reference to leviathan I could find is in Psalm 74:14. Realise that Psalms is a collection of songs. Realise that this verse refers to the 'heads' of the levaithan. Are we to assume that this leviathan had more than one head?
Neither references to leviathan, literal or not, pertains to dinosaurs. In any way.
In fact, Psalm 74:13 pertinently and unequivically refers to 'dragons'. Dragons! Not big fearsome lizards, but fire-breathing mythological creatures. -
What exactly is your point? Are you trying to argue that we shouldn't believe in dinosaurs? That dinosaurs didn't exist?
In a previous post, you said that you had seen an actual dinosaur fossil (not a plaster facsimile of one), which would lead one to believe that you do believe in dinosaurs. If that's the case, I don't understand the point of your post. It seems strange to try to create debate where there is none. We all (with the exception of one person) agree that dinosaurs existed. -
One point is, how can one depend on and trust in science so much as to hold a belief in dinosaurs, yet deny other equally overwhelming scientific evidence that contradicts the bible?
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Such as?
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Please do share what this "overwhelming scientific evidence that contradicts the bible" is.
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Another point is, theist often try to discredit science in theological arguments, yet they depend on science's accuracy for their knowledge of other stuff such as dinosaurs in this case. I find this quite curious to say the least.
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kristilinauer said, "Please do share what this overwhelming scientific evidence that contradicts the bible is."
Are you not aware of all the supernatural events that take place in the bible most if not all of which are not scientifically possible? -
On that note, Jurassic Park should rather be called Cretaceous Park.
The most prominent dinosaurs featured in the film are from the Cretaceous era (Tyrannosaurus and Velociraptor).
Go ahead, call me flamingpedantic. -
Check out this transitionary fossil! richarddawkins.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=35477
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Thanks for the link, I love dinosaurs!
I don't quite understand why they say it's a link between prehistoric and modern crocodiles. Why would life come from the water, go on the land, then adapt for water again?
Montealtosuchus arrudacamposi looks more like an evolved crocodile that could climb trees than a missing link to me.
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At the risk of being banned for entering the religious fray I'll say that the Bible doesn't exclude dinosaurs in any way shape or form. It doesn't mention them, nor does it mention any of the "giant" cats (tigers, lions, etc) it doesn't mention field mice, it doesn't mention many things yet we all know that they exist now and have existed for a long, long time
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Does the bible "exclude" anything really?
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Microwaves?
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I always thought most christians thought the bible was allegory and a moral guide. You must be talking about fundamentalists.-
I don't think the moral guide is in the bible, rather it is outside of it, independent of it.
Think about it. What do people use to pick and choose what to believe out of the bible.
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kristilinauer:
The impression I had was that some hold the view that dinosaurs are biblical because the Bible contains references to leviathan.
The point exactly of my previous post was that there are no biblical dinosuars, only biblical dragons and a leviathan with more than one head. There is no reason to conclude that these belong to the fossil skeletons uncovered, especially since leviathan is referred to as being active at some point in the future after Isaiah lived. Now considering that Isaiah lived within the last 6000 years, and dinosaurs are believed to be from about 65 million years ago...
I am playing devil's advocate.
However, I do personally believe that there were dinosaurs. I'm not so sure about the leviathan, because there is no evidence, fossil or otherwise, to indicate the existence of leviathan. Or dragons. Unless you count Komodo dragons and whoever wrote that psalm was either very shrewd or grossly negligent. -
Actually, Christ was real. But in the year 2089, man-o-spheres invented Hydrozoids (for those who have not yet awaken to their Atlantean heritage, these are water-based time machines).
The zoidrobots, man-o-spheres' counterparts, synthesized dinosaur fossils by combinging whalebone dna and carbon-filing crystals. Both then ordered the 10 remaining human slaves to enter the hydrozoid with a one-way Ibsip-encoded travel key to insert all the pseudo-fossils deep into the pre-Cambrian earth in various stages of simulated living.
The aim was to confuse people of the year 2008 into fighting with each other over whether or not dinosaurs really existed. Assuring the humans' mutual destruction, the man-o-spheres, the zoidrobots and their distant cousins, the pornbots, could all then rest assured a future free of totally useless and unnecessary disease and violence.
And that's the final word... got it?
Sam -
liberal tactic 24a-b9 detected!
Wozog, you started off with a statement which MadameX proved to be inaccurate so you completely change the topic to center on the various denominations of Christianity and what are their core beliefs.
Anyone who gets sucked into, and confused by, such a "bait and switch" deserves it... there's a lesson for them to learn.
Happy trolling,
Sam -
The Bible is a piece of spiritually inspired text written mostly by men that has been heavily edited by church elders over the course of several hundred years. The Bible as we know it is simply a canonized version culled from many competing interpretations. All sacred texts contain passages to revere as well as statements to question. The greatest danger exists when one religion attempts to superimpose itself upon another. Even a cursory glance at history reveals that religious intolerance inevitably breeds violence.
www.farcethenation.org -
By the way, apparently there are two contraditory creation accounts in the Bible.
skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/accounts.html
In the first, the animals were created first, then mankind. This is the correct sequence when viewed with current evolutionary thinking.
In the second, mankind was created first, then the animals were created to keep man company. This is not so correct. It puts dinosaurs after us. Oops!-
I hate it when that happens.
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Every time I see the title of this thread, I get an image in my head of the soccer/football match in "Bedknobs and Broomsticks."
Completely irrelevant, of course. Just felt like sharing.-
I picture the Colliseum filled with Roman spectators. A group of armed christians huddled together in the center of the arena.....suddenly trumpets blare and a trap door opens up....a T-Rex comes charging out, while Pterodactyls swoop in from above.
The christians open up with bursts of AA flak, but the pterodactyls take evasive maneuvers and are able to pierce the defenses. Casualties are horrific on both sides. To quote one of my favorite eyewitness accounts of an actual battle:
"there are bayonet thrusts, saber strokes, pistol shots....men going down on their hands and knees spinning round like tops. There are ghastly heaps of dead men."
Still, the christians fight on. They repel a series of flank attacks by the Velociraptor brigade, after refusing their own right flank. Christian artillery from outside the stadium booms in support.
The dionsaurs fall back and steel themselves for one final push, when finally the emporer decides the carnage has been satisfactory.
...but that might be a tad ridiculous. -
Okay, now I'm getting a sort of Dinotopia vibe. Great.
Thanks a bunch, Red Dog and Brown Horse. -
kdawg, Awesome pictures!
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Happy Easter to all those who celebrate this holiday... -
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You know, this is Easter, which for Christians is *the* most important day of the year. Well, at least Static is honest. Gerry's "Happy Easter" seems to have been intended to stir up trouble. Sad.
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Dinosaurs vs Christians?!
Sorry, the dinosaurs lost.
Survival of the fittest and all that.
Seriously, not all Christians believe the earth is 6,000 years old.
It is rather silly to believe in such a young earth when the original writings don't support it and we have overwhelming evidence to the contrary.
Not going into great detail because I don't care to argue it (since I am always right so why bother hehe), but it would do most Christians some good to understand the original Hebrew better.
It's all reconcilable, for those who care to reconcile it all.
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