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Confessions of a Young, Misogynistic Black Man
Posted by TheBlackCritic • 1/28/09 • Subscribe to this Discussion [RSS] • Report This Topic
Topics: african americans, cheating, dating tips, love, misogynistic men, relationships
Finally finished a post we have been working on for weeks, hoping to shed light on an issue that hits hard in our community. It's a raw, honest take on the experience of several young dudes who have had a lot of success "seducing" married women, and females in committed relationships.
theblackcritic.com/?p=1461
Instead of focusing on finger pointing, and the blame game, and fruitless "insecure" arguments, we deal with the heart of the matter and try to help females solve the problem--in the ways we see works from our perspective. The theory that only "weak" women cheat on their husbands is a myth.
Please take a look and let me know any other solutions that we may have overlooked or not be aware of.
To be frank, we are interested in solutions to the problem, not complaints and insults. We propose two powerful solutions in the post from our experience, but we would love to hear other ones from people outside our lifestyle and perspective.
theblackcritic.com/?p=1461
User Comments
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I appreciate the honesty in your post. And, I agree with much of what you said. I found myself chuckling through parts of it, too.
However, I do take only one issue with your premise of "why stop if it works?"
The answer is simply - because it's the right thing to do. While proper screening can help force "bad men" into better behavior, the men themselves need to step up and get some ethics.
When both happen, you'll have solved the problem.-
You actually bring up an issue that I hope to one day do more research on. Do most people not steal because it's the right thing to do? Or do most people not steal because it's the law and they don't want to suffer the consequences of getting caught? I am starting to believe, based on my experience, and my understanding of history, that its the latter. There are always exceptions, of course, and a powerful of righteous minority, but I'm starting to believe (I'm still grappling with it) that consequences are, many times, the reasons behind the choices people make. If there wasn't a speed limit, how many people would speed?
I don't know all the answers. I just know that there are other sides and other perspectives to the problem that hasn't been fully explored, and I hope to usher in that conversation, even though people tend to shy away from "uncomfortable" truths.
Thanks for your comment, and your insight, as it's always on point. -
The conundrum of lawlessness is a pretty big one. I can honestly say that there are plenty of people in this world who simply abstain from harming others (stealing from someone, hitting someone) because it's the right thing to do in most cases. Of course, when pushed many people might steal, or use violence if the situation were dire.
But in the context of emotions, personal responsibility, personal accountability, and social interactions - I do believe that far more people engage in ethical behavior out of sheer character.
There is certainly no law against being a player. And yet there are so many many people who actively choose not to engage in that sort of behavior. Obviously there is no fear of legal repercussions in this case.
So what then is the root cause?
It could be education (family based, not academic, although the latter also helps). It could be role models. It could be an innate sense of ethics. It could be based on experience (either being hurt, or hurting someone that you entirely regret ever having hurt).
In any case, the responsibility resides within each individual. Because again, there is no law against it, so obviously self control for the sake of morals exists.
If you know that what you do hurts others, why do it? Now, your post was articulate and simply laid out, and there is some truth to what you say.
However, there are bigger reasons to why people engage in hurtful or unethical behaviors. Insecurities or fear may actually play a bigger part than you, or anyone else may realize.
So too, with the women who choose "dogs". Or serial killers, for that matter.
For example, you spoke of the women who know your game, wanting to step into the lion's den. Why would they do that? Because they either care about you a great deal, or feel or want to feel like they are so very important and significant in your life that you might actually change your spots...for them.
Perhaps the innate need to be a player resides far more with self image than previously thought of. You grew up in an environment where self image was utterly based on one's ability to be the toughest, the one who is the best at "macking", sexual prowess, money, stature etc...
Well, know, as an adult, finding fulfillment in just one person, or letting your guard down may be construed as a weakness - and you can't be perceived as that.
There is also the issue of not having appropriate role models for intimate relationships, nor the trial and error of honest relationships. In that case, monogamy and intimacy is a scary prospect. "Commitment phobia" it's called.
You should dig deeper into your own ideals, and figure out why you do it beyond the obvious. Then share that with your male friends. Perhaps urge them to stop childish pursuits. -
That was powerful, and gave me a bunch of insight. Thank you. The only problem I have is that it seems to skip over reality a bit, meaning, you are saying that "most" people make emotional choices that are not hurtful to others as a result of their character, but I don't see evidence of that--at all. In fact, I see evidence of the exact opposite reality: men cheat, women cheat--depending more on the situation and circumstance than character and respect for their partners. At some point our society has to have a serious conversation about "cheating" that doesn't involve the usual myths and misconceptions.
As for what you said about the emotional choices, isn't it true that the possibility of "losing their husband or wife" act as a significant "consequence" much in the same way a "law" does? For many in that example, they haven't experienced a situation that was a powerful enough temptation to counter those possible consequences.
I remember reading an article last year (I can try and goolge it and post the link if you want) about a American and European wives going on vacation to this certain resort with their female friends because it was a breeding ground for finding young men to sleep with. The problem became so bad, the country had to impose new laws to try and combat the possibility of spreading STDs. I will search for it.
We already know about males who go on "business" trips and end up in the arms of females, or even prostitutes, when away from their wives, and think they are in a situation where they will never "get caught." My experience merely shows that many women do the same thing. When people think they won't get caught, the real person comes out. (Which would mean, if we put it bluntly, that a lot of us define "character" too loosely. Before Ted Haggard got caught, millions claimed he had "character"--let's not forget that)
It's like, imagine this: The people everyone claims is so "mature," and "role models" you get to see the "other" side of them--because you live in the underworld--that the rest of the public is ignorant of. You know one of the call-girls that a certain pastor uses. You know the female author who rights books on "spiritual" relationships, and has a lovely family and dedicated husband, but you used to sleep with her. You hear the college student who writes for her school newspaper about being a virgin until she marries, but you know the guy she sneaks off with every three months or so when she can't bear it any longer. Imagine this for a moment.
Now imagine how you would feel if people called you "childish" for admitting in public, honestly, what everyone else does in private, dishonestly. I know the folks they call role models, and see the dirt they do on the down low. It's almost as though we living in a society where it's ok to do whatever you want, so long as you do it in the "dark," beneath the public eye.
You rarely can talk about things and issues openly and honestly anymore, because that's when the lies comes--no female has ever cheated in the history of the universe, if you let them tell it. And no man either, if you let him write the story. This dishonesty is what confuses me mostly--because I live in the darkness, in the shadows, where I see these people who you describe as having "character" secretly do their dirt. If strip clubs and call girls and prostitutes relied on single folks, they would all be out of business. Why can't we be honest on things like this?
I'm prepared, as you suggested to continue to hold a mirror to myself, and try to improve whatever I can. It's a slow process, but I am trying. Sincerely. I'm just a bit confused, because many of the people folks point to as "examples" are people who, when the lights are out, and no one is looking, do the exact same things I do--they just are not honest about it, or do it in different ways. -
Well there is something to be said for being human, mistakes happen, irresponsibility happens.
And certainly I understand and full well know that the expected role models typically have skeletons in their closets. you'll get no arguments from me on that.
However, an issue that needs to be addressed is the difference between a mistake - say, falling in love with someone and not appropriately handling the relationship you're currently in, and serial infidelities or emotional manipulation.
OK, first though I'll answer this:
As for what you said about the emotional choices, isn't it true that the possibility of "losing their husband or wife" act as a significant "consequence" much in the same way a "law" does?
Certainly this is true. However the punishment goes two ways, first when you are fearful of losing someone due to your actions, that means you care about them (wanting them near you...and not angry with you). In turn that means that you care about that person's feelings. When you hurt them, you hurt yourself, but more importantly, you've hurt them. Unlike a law - where avoiding jail time or tickets is really more of a matter of convenience, fear, and self preservation, the fear of losing a person you care about goes far deeper.
That is to say that because we don't live in bubbles, our morals and ethics are in part, guided by our compassion and love for those around us. You wouldn't punch a friend in the face unless you were already ready to break off that friendship on your own. How we act everyday has naturally occurring consequences, both good and bad - where as the consequences of breaking a law are artificially imposed.
OK, sorry for the tangent
I do believe that one can provide a good role model even if they screw up. When I say role model I do not mean idolizing a person who is perfect. That is a set up for failure because no one is perfect. I mean someone who can provide a reasonably decent model of a healthy relationship.
For example, a couple who is, for the most part (or totally in your eyes) monogamous, respectful, and intimate displays how a relationship between two people can and should work. Even if it fails, or one cheats, for the most part you've been exposed to a reasonably normal level of intimacy from which you can learn. In fact, watching a relationship like that fail can offer further insight to normal human emotions and reactions - teaching you what it means to hurt someone.
On the other hand, if you have never been exposed to a relationship that is intimate, respectful (though not perfect) and monogamous, you will not have even a reasonable role model in which to learn from. If you see abuse, abuse becomes normalized. If you see womanizing, that is what you internalize.
Where was I?
Yes, the difference between screwing up and manipulating for the thrill of the chase is that which would be a mistake becomes habitual. Like drug use. One is a huge error in judgment, the other is consistently intentional.
When I used the phrase childish, I meant to imply that intentionally hurting others for an artificially inflated self worth is very, very childish at it's core. Children do that, usually to fit in. As adults, peer pressure and the desire to be seen as something in particular and depending on that image to feel good about oneself is supposed to go by the wayside for mature behavior and responsibilities.
You no longer do what you want to to feel good, but do what you need to do whether you want to or not.
That said, there is some credence to the biological nature of infidelity. Very few species practice monogamy, and humans struggle with it. What is different in this case isn't the fidelity, but the manipulation. Biologically there is no need to manipulate. The chase is done in order to procreate, not to experience the euphoric thrill of a challenge.
And by the way, it is just as thrilling to be pursued, particularly by a "bad boy". So it does go both ways. -
I absolutely love the way you analyze things. Consider me a fan:
"That said, there is some credence to the biological nature of infidelity. Very few species practice monogamy, and humans struggle with it. What is different in this case isn't the fidelity, but the manipulation. Biologically there is no need to manipulate. The chase is done in order to procreate, not to experience the euphoric thrill of a challenge."
I am taking everything you have written into deep consideration. Thank you. -
Thank you!
I've actually really enjoyed the conversations we've had - you're brutal honesty in these matters is refreshing. It makes me think - which is good. or scary...
I would love for you to do a post on my blog, actually. Think you could put a political spin on yuor topic?
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Oh please. Again, in the end it's blame the women, make the women change the game, because if the women made it harder or did this or did that it would change the game - white, black, pink or purple it always comes down to "if a women changed her game we'd be a acting much better". BS if you ask me.
Change your own game, because the game as it is played is hurting more than the woman, change the game because playing it the way you do displays very poor character,but stop blaming women.-
I'm not sure we are blaming women at all actually, as we have posts that attack this tendency in men head on (Date Rape: Does No Really Mean No? theblackcritic.com/?p=1235 ). We go after males just as hard.
The thing is, we are not afraid of sensitive females who hide behind insecurity in their quest to refuse any responsibility for their actions. We are not spineless. If your past 5 boyfriends were abusive men, then you have a problem, just as much as the abusive men do. You have to take a deep look inside yourself and see why you are only attracted to abusive men. Ignoring that you have a broken selection process and filtering mechanism doesn't solve anything. It may make you feel better to complain all day to your girlfriends, calling all men dogs, but it doesn't solve anything at all.
I think, personally, both sides of the coin needs fixing. And we are not afraid to point that out--to ourselves and others.
I know accepting responsibility is hard, especially difficult when the treatment is unfair, but at some point we all have to do it--even me, even men, even women, and, frankly, even you. -
humm
Just because some women has had 5 abusive boyfriends has nothing to do with the fact that as a boyfriend you choose to abuse her. It is not her fault you beat her.
Quite frankly you have no idea as to my level of responsibility but it's neither here nor there, as that is not what your post addressed. -
If you think the woman who chooses to date and fall in love with five different boyfriends, all of whom beat her, doesn't need to re-evaluate her selection process, doesn't need to look deep within herself and discover what makes her gravitate towards abusive men, then, with all due respect, you represent the exact mindset we explain needs to be fixed. You would rather be seen as victims so you can say "look how horrible guys treat me" to all your girlfriends for a pity party, but unwilling to make the necessary steps that can actually prevent or at least lessen the problem. Whining and complaining, from my humble experience, has never solved anything.
Many men are dogs. I agree. I'm a dog. I agree--though I'm slowly working on changing that. You win on any tag line or name or insult you toss my way. I agree.
But the problem still remains, even after the name calling. And we hope to help females by showing them how to tweak their selection process, upgrade their filtering mechanisms, so that they can recognize guys like me before the heartbreak comes. Simply put, if you--or any female--has five different boyfriends, all of whom have beat her or abused her, then she has a problem she needs to deal with that complaining won't help. Yes, the boyfriends have problems too.
But chances are good that your sixth boyfriend will be abusive too if you don't take a moment to look in the mirror and change the selection process and filtering mechanism you use to screen out abusive and undeserving men. -
The problem is that with so much to fix yourself it is probably best you concentrate on yourselves and not the women, women who from what I read and know are quite aware of what they need to fix.
It is condescending an arrogant for those who are part of the problem to think they can tell women how to "tweak their selection process, upgrade their filtering mechanisms". Believe me the sisters know this and are doing this and do not need the men to tell them how.
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i dont know what to say , im comletely speechless . im no prude but cant understand this stuff, -
It sounds like OK so yeah it takes two... cool. Everybody faces temptations and we do slip, but why put so much into making someone do that? I'm guessing you don't get caught up in falling for the one you go for, am I right? B/c if you did, you wouldn't want to do not aid that person into that black hole filled with regret, guilt, utter weakness and self-condemnation.
Men who do that WANT to be those trifling dogs. I understand the whole "because it works" concept. However, in itself, that mind-set is a waste of time, energy and emotion. It won't fulfill you forever.
I just don't get why men would tire themselves in doing that to be honest. They wouldn't be able to look at me in the eyes and say they love themself; respect themselves, let alone others.
I agree with Anok when saying it's the right thing to do. It speaks volumes to ones standards.-
damn....I agree, shes right.
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I'm not sure what guys you are talking about who "can't look you in the eyes." You have to be talking about a different variation of dudes than the ones I roll with. There is nothing timid around this way--cats will look you straight in the eye, never flinching, and lie. I think you have us confused with some amateur, or some bumbling idiot who leaves phone numbers in his front pockets.
I have a question that maybe you could answer though...Isn't what you said relative in a way:
"However, in itself, that mind-set is a waste of time, energy and emotion. It won't fulfill you forever."
To young hoodlums who have now traveled all over the world, from Egypt to Paris to Germany to London, England etc, as a result, it makes our choices even more difficult because we see the advantages. There is possibly no way many of us would have ever traveled too far outside our block had it not been for our "gifts" (or curse). The problem comes, at least from our perspective, when you look around and say, "if I stop, now what?" That isn't an easy answer--especially when we see "publicly happy" couples doing the same thing on the down low.
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I think you showed the real problem in your thinking in the line.
"Good” guys, for all their wonderful attributes, simply can’t explain the nature of the so-called “Bad” guys. It would be like asking a virgin for sexual advice."
You assume that a "good guy" always were good. And therefore won't be able to understand the mental aspect of the "bad guys"
In other words, you have given up on, or never intended to change your game. You can't even imagine that someone would.-
Actually we are at the crossroads, still uncertain, looking at everything from different perspectives. Admittedly unaware of all the answers.
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Well thats certainly not how that sentence reads. DOesn't sound like you are uncertain of your oppinion of "good guys" at all.
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Actually we have posts that clarify, in no uncertain terms, that we disagree with the whole idea of a "good" guy vs a "bad" guy, as it's mostly a relative term. What one woman calls a "good" guy, another woman, based on her experience with him, may actually call him a "bad" guy. (Are You Dating a "good" Guy or "Bad" Buy theblackcritic.com/?p=1299 )
I had attempted to not use the terms in the first draft, but everyone agreed that it was such a commonly used term (good and bad) we would actually lose readers if we substituted the terms with something else.
Truth is, at least from our point of view, "good" guy nor "bad" guy have no real definition--it's much like beauty, its whatever someone sees at that moment. Ted Bundy was considered a "good" guy by several women before he got caught--even the judge sentencing him commented on how pleasing a personality he had. So the term is too relative, and I honestly wanted to discard it before posting--but the new editors said it took away clarity from the post.
Sorry about that. As I honestly don't like the term period--as it has so many definitions its actually meaningless.
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This was definitely not the thread I hoped it was.-
You had hoped it wasn't a real, honest confession but a gimmick of some kind?
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I believe he was looking for something a bit dirtier
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I must confess I had hoped for something a touch filthier, maybe a black Samuel Pepys for the 21st century but failing that straight up interracial porno confessions would have done.
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Now that was sooo sooo funny I almost dropped my sandwich over here. Lol
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I have a couple issues, no judgments, just issues.
1. You're assuming that good guys were never once bad guys. Maybe you don't want to grow up but some men actually do.
2. It's troubling that while you're running around telling every and any lie you can think of you blame the person you're lying to for actually believing you. As if trusting someone is a bad thing. Are you serious? Did you ever stop to think if you actually said to the married woman hey I'm an asshole who just wants to win this bet with my idiot friends she would actually consider cheating on her husband. (Oh and you're also assuming that her husband is a good guy, that might not even be the case.)
3. I find it hard to believe that you even like women. While I guess it might be admirable that you never hit women treating them as objects by lying is well for lack of a better word wrong.
4. Oh and really it's not up to the people who are getting lied to to change their ways because obviously there's nothing wrong with their ways as much as there is something wrong with you and your friend's behavior.-
boo-ya faith hit the nail on the head
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Woooooooooooooow!!I like it! All of it!
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I will respond to each observation:
1.) I'm not really assuming assuming "good" guys were never "bad" guys, but I can see how that could be unclear in my post. Thank you for pointing that out. But whether a man "grows up" or not is, in my humble view, irrelevant when his wife is in a hotel with us naked. He could be the most outstanding citizen in the world--it's hard to hold him up as a role model when either we are, or know someone who is, sleeping with his wife. The type citizen he is doesn't factor into our equation actually.
2.) I find it interesting that you took it as "blaming" women instead of someone who is an expert at breaking into homes, tapping you on the shoulders and saying, "When you leave your window open like that, burglars like me sometimes take advantage of it." I know it's a sensitive topic, but it's a needed one. I've had homeboys who were professional boosters pull me to the side and warn me about holding my wallet in a certain way. Did I get pissed? No. I thanked dude, and became more aware of folks getting too close to me on crowded trains or bumping into me on the sidewalks. If you are too good to accept advice and a "heads-up" from cats who know what they are talking about when it comes to the topic of cheating, then I'm not sure any article would work or help you.
3) You might be right here. I don't have a definitive answer on this yet. I'm still willing to explore myself, look in the mirror and seek out the truth. You may certainly have a point here. I don't know yet. Are you willing or prepared to look in the mirror as diligently as I am?
4.)If you go to the hood and leave your Lexus coupe unlocked, with the keys in the passenger seat, there's a chance someone will jack it. Does that mean the car thief was innocent and shouldn't be punished? No. He was wrong. Just as I am, in many ways. But do you miss an opportunity to learn from that experience when you leave your car doors open again, next time? Yes. Don't adults have to accept responsibility for the things they do, especially when it's repeated over and over again? At some point, once your car has been stolen 4 or 5 times, you learn to lock the doors and take the key out--and even, more bluntly, never to leave it parked in certain neighborhoods. To be mad at me for pointing out the obvious seems somewhat like denial. In the perfect world, all men would treat women like queens and women would never cheat on their husbands. But this isn't Utopia. Some folks jack cars, and many guys seduce married women. Facts of life. Not sure how offering a defense against those two things is so horrible...unless, of course, you are afraid of responsibility and would rather complain about the problem instead of fix them. -
@TheBlackCritic
I think you missed my point entirely.
Here are your words
"Good” guys, for all their wonderful attributes, simply can’t explain the nature of the so-called “Bad” guys. It would be like asking a virgin for sexual advice. Your words not mine.
This passage implies that good guys can't give advice to women about the nature of bad guys because they have no basis with which to give that advice. Now if I am wrong please explain.
Also you're comparing apples and oranges. Believing someone who lies is not the same as locking your car. A screening process is great but what really would that solve when you say yourself that once one thing stops working you switch up. In your case I guess it's easier to blame the victim or in the case of the cheating wives the accomplise.
Believe me I am not in denial and I don't for one second imagine all men will ever treat all women like queens. It's not practical. I'm at issue with your solution to the problem. The problem isn't the person getting lied to the problem is the person doing the lying. You seem like an intelligent guy I honestly don't believe you can't understand that.
Since you seem to like examples I will give you one. If I jump up and smack my brother in the face for no reason besides I can it's not his fault I smacked him. It's mine. In order to fix that wrong I must stop smacking him. He's not responsible for trying to rectify my ill behavior. Yes he can get up and move but if I change my position I can still hit him. So the problem will never be solved if he just changes his ways. In order for him to stop getting smacked for no reason I have to want to stop and change my ways.
My offered solution isn't showing a lack of responsibility nor is it complaining, plain and simple liars should stop lying. If that ain't taking responsibility I don't know what is.
We'll probably never see eye to eye on this one because our lenses are colored differently. -
Actually I disagree with the example you gave--as that's the same "reasoning" that has people "doing nothing" against police brutality. There are things he can do to make you stop slapping him. There are things he can do to make anyone stop slapping him. Inaction is an excuse for cowardice, especially in regards to police brutality and a host of other issues.
Frankly, I have a problem with passive, "I'm a victim" responses. If that's the way you look at yourself, thats what you always will be. I respect action. Solutions. Realizing a problem and finding ways to deal with it. Fix it. Whining and complaining is pointless, no matter who does it. Do you want a pity party or results?
So your example only works if you are expecting the person in your story to be a coward. There is always an option when it comes to retaliation. You can stop folks for hurting you. You just have to figure out the best way that you are most comfortable with.
Doing nothing, balled up in a corner crying, complaining, lips poked out claiming "I'm a victim, I'm a victim," doesn't solve the problem, just gets you sympathy. Action gets results, not complaints.
Sorry. You used a bad example. No cowards at our site. We don't believe in turning the other cheek. -
Again you're not understanding. My response has nothing to do with being a victim or a coward. My response has everything to do with taking responsibility for one's own actions. And that goes for everyone in your story, the cheating wife and your group of lying man-whores.
Plain and simple your logic is flawed. You're not coming to the table with clean hands. If you're lying to people to gain trust you're wrong. You can't argue yourself out of that and blame the person that you're lying to because she believed you no matter how many car stealing examples you put out there. And just to add to your example even if you park in a nice neighborhood and lock your doors your car can still get stolen which is why you're example and your logic is flawed.
If I follow your logic I should not even own a car because at some point someone might steal it. That is completely ass backwards. The true problem is not my ownership of the car it's the thief who chooses to steal or in this case the lying manipulator.
But it's getting late I have work in the morning, we're not gonna agree because our point of views are different by circumstance and experience.
I look forward to your next post, they are always interesting. -
You can own a car--but lock the doors when you leave it. Roll the windows up. There are things you can do to be more responsible. It doesn't always prevent a thief, but it helps--there are other things that work too, tricks we know. But you seem to be arguing that in your Utopia world, you should be able to leave your car doors opened and no one take it. I agree. You should. But that is just not reality. In reality, people steal cars, so you have to do your part as well. You have to at least take basic steps to prevent thieves--even if it's not fool proof.
The same applies to relationships and men. Some of us are dogs. That's reality. We should work hard to change that fact too. But at the same time, we can not ignore the fact that there are many things females can do to spot dogs like us out the gate.
What I am trying to share with you is that there are still ways to tell who he really is, still methods of weeding out undesirables--no matter how many months we spend dedicated to pursuing a particular female. I'm merely saying there are clues, there are hints, there are jigsaws that give evidence to the true puzzle of who the guy really is. These clues allows you to better prepare a defense, to screen out potential threats out the gate.
No where have I defended the actions of my crew of misfits. I accept my part of the blame. Now, are you willing to look at the other side of that coin?
If you buy a car, lock the doors when you leave it in public. If you meet a man, accept some of the tips we have shared on how to tell if he is a dog like us and running game. It will save you a lot of time. It's not that hard actually. Half the things are dead give-aways.
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Can I ask why this thought process has to be as a group?-
Pervert!
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Not sure what you mean? Please explain and I can give you a more pointed answer.
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Well it wasn't a perverted one, ignore the pink donkeh above.
I meant the referral to 'we' in all of this, do you really believe that you can change your ways/thoughts/opinions, if you want to, as a group? -
God you have no shame! Asking for group in a public forum!
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I say "we" because it was a group effort for many years. We got to a point we started calling ourselves "The Grinders." We would have a constantly updated list of married females that at least one of us had to eventually seduce. So the "we" comes from an attempt on my part to sometimes--in some places--speak on behalf of "all" of The Grinders. I try to separate my personal experiences from the personal experience of other members, and sometimes I use "we" to detail that. Example: Personally, I have never slept with a millionaire, but "we" have, because a few members of The Grinders ended up catching some lucky breaks. This is where the "we" in parts comes from.
I hope that clarifies it a bit more.-
Yes it does clarify it, I suppose I just don't like it.
What is it that you really want to do? Change your own views on women and relationships? Or let women in on the game? -
Truthfully, I don't know. I want to say all of the above, but I'm not one who lies to himself. I don't know. I'm just confused, actually, attempting to look at everything from all angles...hoping that will allow me to figure out the best course of action.
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Whether I am right or wrong, the message I get, is that the sooner women stop acting like whores and letting you sleep with them, the sooner your opinion will change? So although your admitting freely that you sleep with attached women, the blame still lies at their feet and they should know better.
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Actually, that's no where near the message. In fact, the message is the exact opposite in a way:
"It's true many men ain't shit. We do some very f*cked up things that is just horrible and disgusting. We really need to change our behavior. But having said that, here are a few tips on how to recognize some of the things we do, so you can be better equipped to recognize one of us when we approach you. It's not always easy to tell, because some of us are really good at deception, but if you carry along with you these few pointers, you will save yourself the hassle of dealing with half the "no good" men who approach you. It will save you time because you will be able to use these tips to pin point guys like me out the gate."
This is, actually, the message. -
But whilst your giving women tips to help spot your wicked ways, what are you doing to change them?
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Deeply evaluating my life and the life I want for the future and hoping to decide with certainty what path I truly want to follow. I'm looking in the mirror, and not hiding from the image that stares back, the good and the bad. Therefore, when I finally make up my mind, it won't be on shaky ground, it will be a thoughtful, deliberate move that is endorsed by an honest assessment of reality.
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Lasting change usually happens in small increments. You can think deep thoughts about this, till the cows come home, but when are you actually going to do something? Are your prepared to lose friends by putting distance between those that influence you negatively?
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Here's an interesting viewpoint that may (or may not) help sway the popular opinion of you and your group. In your post you mentioned some of your earlier sexual experiences, "trains" and the like. You also mentioned a certain amount of detachment, callousness, and removal of yourself. I'd like to run with that for a minute.
It is very easy to engage in sexual activities and conquests of that nature when the person involved is unknown, uncared for, or generally perceived in a particular "whoreish" light. It's called dehumanizing, and it works when you need to be able to do something the average person wouldn't be able to do.
However, imagine this, if you will:
A group, maybe your group, sets up a lovely evening of sexual prowess with a particular conquest. You are invited to join in and you're game.
Only, when you walk into the room, you realize that this conquest is your mother, or your sister, or your daughter. it could be that female friend you turned down, even.
What is your reaction?
I'll almost guarantee that it will vary between declining to join in, to outright anger and disgust.
Why?
Because you have been confronted with actual emotions. These are people you care about...deeply. When it comes to those you care about, conquests of this nature become devaluing, violations, as it were.
Now, just think - every woman you have been able to chase and bed down is someone's sister, mother, wife, daughter, or friend. A person who is loved deeply by others, unknown to you.
Can you apply the humanizing factor to them as well?-
I completely agree, as I'm not coming to this thing attempting to defend anything on the past. I'm guilty as charged actually. If I didn't understand the depth of the humanizing factor, I doubt I would be bothered by it all. (Some people stop selling drugs because they don't want to get caught. Some do it because they finally see that it's wrong, morally.) I'm at the crossroads. I'm not sure which way turn actually. But something in it all disgust me.
It just bothers me when people act as though folks are not cheating out here, as though married couples are somehow the epitome of happiness--when I know from experience that many of you don't see the side I see. You see happy couples who come over for dinner and allow kids to play together. I see females who drop their kids off for basketball practice a few minutes early so they can hook up a quickie with us. So, when you see reality, it's hard not to get a little irritated by folks when they claim to be ignorant of the facts. It would be like someone claiming children aren't starving no where in America. That statement just show they have no clue what they are talking about.
But now consider this:
Let's say a booster who specializes in clipping wallets and purses and watches comes up to you one day and says, leaving your phone clamped onto your purse is a mistake because it allows guys like me to more easily steal your phone without bothering with snatching your whole purse--since that's more risky. From there we sometimes can get other information and eventually try to steal other things from you.
Do you get pissed off at him and call him names? Or do you say, thanks for the heads-up and make sure you place your phone inside your purse next time, fully zipped?
I can tell you what I did when a few of my homeboys schooled me on how to recognize when someone bumps into you on the street and attempts to snatch your watch or wallet--I listened, because these cats made a living doing this. I didn't get defensive and start calling them names because they were out there stealing folks belongings--it's wrong and we knew it.
But I used the knowledge they shared with me so I could spot a situation when it happens. It meant I didn't have to go out and learn how to snatch watches to be able to recognize when it happens. They gave me a heads-up...now I know. It's hard to clip me now--no matter how crowded the club is or sidewalks are--I'm aware. I know what to look for now.
The same is true with the post. Some things, however horrible, however ugly, however uncomfortable, need to be taken as a heads-up. And looked at from more than one perspective. -
I completely agree. One stance I have always taken is that regardless of someone else's morals (or lack thereof), you are responsible for you. And that means making sure that you are not deliberately opening yourself up to be a target.
Of course, it's one thing to be tricked into letting your defenses down, and another thing entirely to just intentionally remaining naive about the world around you, allowing others to take advantage of you.
It's like if you know that this avenue is a dangerous avenue to walk down - don't walk down it. At least not alone, or unarmed.
If something is too good to be true, it probably is.
But what you guys seem to be doing is a bit more in the "trick" department. Long term goals are set, and followed through, as it were. -
yea, you are right, which, in my eyes, is why the post was so important--there is a new breed of tricksters out here that don't fit the usual mold. We can't be easily identified. Which means, as horrible as it may sound, allowed us to get away with a lot more. For instance--most people naively think thugs are "ignorant" folks who walk around with their pants sagging. We exploited that misconception--when you can articulate what happened during the French and Indian War, it gives you an advantage because folks have no idea how to take you--and end up becoming lost in that puzzle, those seemingly obvious contradictions. It allowed us to become "mysterious" in many ways because, to be frank, there were no obvious "group" to place us in. Curiosity killed a lot of cats.
The post attempts to shed light on this and articulate new ways of weeding through the things we personally know about--the tricks we know personally that works. It would be like an expert computer hacker tapping you on the shoulders and saying, "listen, I see several things in your defense system that your Anti-virus program doesn't protect you from. I know this won't solve all the problems from all the expert hackers, but it will certainly defend about the ones I know about personally. You will be able to spot those infected emails even when your Anti-virus program misses it."
If your response to him is to lecture him and call him names for hacking innocent people's computer, if you decide not to accept his advice because you hate the amoral behavior of system crashing, that's not productive in any real way. Yes, he's a scum, he's a dirtbag for finding it "fun" to develop new viruses, but how smart is it to blatantly refuse to take heed to the information he is sharing? If you don't agree with the solutions he offers, that's one thing. But to not even listen, to not even consider upgrading your defense isn't logical.
The same is true, I think with our experience. Let's agree, for the sake of argument, that "we ain't shit," we are worse than the lowest of low human beings. How smart is it when we try to show females ways to spot other guys like us--without all the hassle and drama? We don't know all the methods, or all the tricks, but we certainly know the one's we use so successfully.
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I've read quite a few of your posts now.
All of a sudden I realized that you actually match many of the personality traits of a repressed Homosexual.
Since you are on a path of self discovery, maybe you should consider that.-
Sure. No problem. I will make sure I check into that.
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