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Spanking and IQ
Posted by Agit8r • 6 days ago • Subscribe to this Discussion [RSS] • Report This Topic
Topics: corporal punishment, direct link or indirect link, iq
"Children who are spanked have lower IQs worldwide, including in the United States, according to new groundbreaking research by University of New Hampshire professor Murray Straus.
Straus also found a lower national average IQ in nations in which spanking was more prevalent. His analysis indicates the strongest link between corporal punishment and IQ was for those whose parents continued to use corporal punishment even when they were teenagers."
www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/165259.php
User Comments
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I never got spanked (at least by my parents) so it must be true.
(What if your wife spanks you. Does that count?)-
i suppose it depends on if you are still developing... purely hypothetically speaking of course...
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I suppose it is worth asking whether there are interrelated socio-economic factors.
As well as whether lowered IQ is caused by corporal punishment, or vice versa. . .-
That's exactly what I was thinking. Because it is not really accepted for parents to spank their children in Suburbia anymore, it tends to be done in Inner City and Rural settings that attract less intelligent and less economically prosperous people and are usually accompanied by less healthy diets (which plays in to IQ big time.) I disagree that Lower IQ would lead to more misbehavior, as high IQ children can be just as problematic in that regard, but perhaps lower IQ would lead to being caught more often! -
I live in a rule setting and I am not less intelligent haha I am definetly coming to GA with nair and some way to get to you. You take it back now. lol -
"I disagree that Lower IQ would lead to more misbehavior"
THAT wasn't what I was ever-so-subtly implying
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I wasnt talking about you lol I was talking to the rebel flag up there. I got spanked and slapped al my life and I turned out fine. My Aunt (who half raised me) would slap you across the face for back talking so quick your head spun. My mom would leave you with pink stripes and I once got a black eye from the deal. I am college educated and teach my kids. So I dont think it affects us as much as how we are raised, the money and situations we live under.
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@amybyrd: I meant to say more along the lines of, "the kind of work that is required there would be more hard labor oriented." I've meant plenty of intelligent rednecks and plenty of stupid city people - just in the city you might get economically run out of town if you're stupid (not make enough money to live) or perhaps to a truly awful neighborhood in the city, and you might be lured out of the country (like my Grandpa) with mullah if you're very intelligent and wish to work in more of a computing et cetera oriented field. Statistics do weird things to the way you talk about everything I've found.
The minute you bring up IQ you're automatically talking in generalizations because IQ itself IS a generalization... There is no IQ, it's just a counterintuitive but biologically sensible statistical trend caused by all the areas in your brain being approximately as capable as all the others. -
sounds like someone has been hurt by IQ tests in the past...
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Exactly...
Perhaps lower IQ individuals cannot rationally stay out of trouble. -
@Agit8r: No I'm hurt by what I said, I've never thought of myself as an elitist or someone who looks down on the poor or the rural and I never want to. But beyond that:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_intelligence_factor
The basis of IQ.
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If life could be as simple as that! l, dl, & s-
could you elaborate?
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It's not as if, you NEVER spank a child and he's going to grow up a genius. Every parent is different. Their dedication, effort and skill all come into play to influence the thinking prowess of the child.
In fact at times a child will ask to be spanked. Because he expects a boundary to exist for his behavior, and wants to test you if you are genuine enough with him to disapprove and be truthful. I say this because I remember in my own school, if I found my teacher giving me straight A's I would deliberately make a mistake to see if a B would be given
In the search for meaning many things will happen. But dumb spankings might make for a dumb child - but then who is to say? -
I certainly am not certain that the methods prove a direct link, but it is possible that it begets beta mentality and less striving in general
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Thats quite open. Let me say,
"but it is possible that it begets alpha mentality and more striving in general"
The statement doesn't lose much by this alteration, does it?
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I simplified the title for the sake of those who were spanked a lot
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I guess any kind of stress or trauma might interfer in the mental development of a children. -
is this why test scores from the South are lower?
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What are you arriving at here?
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well, in the deep south, spanking is quite popular. It is even allowed in some public schools there
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l, dl & s
thats all there is to say -
I'm still not understanding your abbreviations
If it doesn't bear mention in public, perhaps you could leave it in my shoutbox -
it begins with 'lies'
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oh, right
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hard to type when eatng
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Spanking is also quite popular in the Midwest, and the Midwest has the highest test scores in the US.
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yes JJ, spanking is prevelent all over the U.S.
but it seems to be more celebrated further south. -
On a bus stand, I came across a boy with his parents, who seemed very non-compliant and mischievous. His pop was after him ordering him to come and he would turn and run.
His pop caught up with him and there was a struggle. The man was reaching into the boy's shirt.. and LO! What do I see? I big STICK would be revealed. The poor boy was avoiding a beating by hiding and not giving up the stick!
Beatings is universal, not just in USA. I thought in USA probably people dont beat their kids, but you tell me something different -
yes, it is the seemingly the default parenting everywhere but in the EU
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But you are generalizing a tad too much here.. And you may be surprised when a europeon comes in here to weep about his childhood
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It is less prevelent in the EU, because there are increasingly more legal restriction... and a more educated population
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There are some pretty bright people here who admit to being spanked as kids. So I think the equation is a little dubious.
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Undoubtedly it isn't the ONLY factor. I am just asking if it is A factor.
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Well the statistics say nothing to suggest "A" factor. At best a main cause
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you seem to be argumentative today. Fetch a switch!
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Ok .. will dumbly accept whatever you say
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Kids who don't drink 2 glasses of water a day have lower IQ's than those that drink at least 2 glasses a day.-
what sources are you citing?
and does the same apply downstream from mining? -
not a lot of water in hell, dude. -
www.universityofawesome.edu/nowatermakesyourkidsdumb
agi- No, the mining adds essential minerals to the water, making them smarter.
DBR-Have you ever been to hell? -
your mama told me!
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DBR, don't be dissin on DB's "hood"
and DB, no name calling!
if I have to say it again, I'll blister the both of ya! -
Ugh, my bad dbr. its been a long day haha
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actually there is water on the moon, if you didn't hear, a lot of it. We could take advantage of that.
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I read about that the other day. It's kind of cool. I wonder when the moon men are going to invade?
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It's probably going to be leased out to Nestle
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*crickets*
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maybe it is too intellectual of a discussion for saturday night...
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People who are less educated are more likely to spank their children. People who are less educated may be less educated b/c they don't have a very high IQ and are therefore not as encouraged to seek higher education. People with lower IQs tend to have children with lower IQs.
What I'm trying to say is spanking children doesn't lower their IQ. It just means that people with lower IQs are more likely to spank their children and people with lower IQs are more likely to have kids with lower IQs.-
there is also the fact that effective education actually raises IQ.
negative reinforcement, not so much
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Dumb kids are more likely to get caught on spank worthy issues.-
Lol... my thoughts took the opposite tack.
I'm wondering whether more highly educated parents are more likely to lie to the surveyor by saying they don't spank.
... I'm also wondering how this data was collected.
[runs off to read article] -
I would guess there is a large correlation between parents willing to lie about spanking and parents who spank.
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Both of my parents were highly educated. They had four children and we got spanked. They did warn us ... but we would push the envelope. I am reasonably intelligent and I was the child who received and doubtless earned the majority of these spankings. I can honestly tell you that there were only four which I did not deserve.
These little times together made me become pretty wise by the time I reached thirteen. My late Mother told me that I was such a well behaved and adorable child while I was sleeping.
Spankings when doled out judiciously and with affection do build good character, and I have plenty of that.
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I don't think there was any implication that spanking makes kids dumb. it just speculated that it lowered intelligence from what it might have potentially been.
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Ha. If I became any more intelligent I would have to kiss myself.
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The article said it only lowered IQ by 2-5 points. That's not really a lot.-
I would think that beer, alcohol and pot might do more lowering than spanking. But what do I know? I lost 2 -5 points by the seat of my pants
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I guess that there is some correlation. That is not enough to prove causality - lower IQ and spanking could have parallel causes. For instance, maybe the kind of family which is more likely to spank is also more likely to encourage a lower IQ in some other way.
Thus, this statistics shows there is a POSSIBILITY that spanking is to blame, but it does not prove that spanking is to blame. -
I don't see how corporal punishment done correctly could lower IQ and I have seen many children who excel in school who live in a family who spanks.
I can see however, a child suffering mentally if in a household that spanks out of anger and frustration and hits a child anywhere on their body and in totally unacceptable ways.
And just to set the record straight, I'm not a spanker.-
every consider that maybe its the IQ thats causing the punishment and not the other way around? -
I, altogether too subtly, alluded to that above
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I'm sorry, I read this and I thought "oh bullshit." All of the kids in my family were spanked throughout our childhood... between the four of us kids, we have 7 degrees. We are successful teachers, accountants and business managers.
There's a difference between spanking your kid and beating the ever loving hell out of him. -
I have always thought these type of things are more effects or preconditioned environments rather than the causes thereof.
People saying video games causes violence always drives me nuts. When things are looked at in depth versus surface level statistics it is usually more clear that those video games come with the environment not because of it. Same thing with suicidal teenagers listening to depressing music. It usually turns out to be a justification for their emotions rather than the cause.
When it comes to spanking and IQ I would argue the same thing. To put it simply this type of surface level research is a perfect example of post hoc fallacy. Heck I was spanked by my dad with a Masters, his dad spanked him who also had a Masters, I have an IQ of 134 and I am not quiting till I get my Doctorate.
A better way to explain this is imagine how children need to be loved - do all children need to be loved the exact same way? Of course not! Each child is their own person. Some will feel more appreciated with gifts, some with kind words, others withhugs and kisses. No child is the same including as well that each child will feel appreciated more in their own ways. Good parents realize this and cater to each of their individual child's needs. A child who needs kid words you give them to because otherwise they might feel neglected and unloved. They need to hear it, so let them hear it.
The same goes for children and discipline. Not every child should be disciplined the same way. Each child is different. You absolutely have to find out what is appropriate to get you child's attention without doing damage.
Example: A child who LOVES hugs, kisses, holding hands, sitting on laps, playing physical contact games etc. Those kids feel most loved by physical touch. Don't be a moron and spank those children - that is how they will feel most hurt. Time outs, taking away toys for a time, etc would be much more effective.
Again the same goes for other kids and other methods. Kids who feel more loved with individual attention you don't ground to their rooms for extended periods of time. Spanking in that case would be more appropriate.
As I said, good parenting is about learning you children and doing what is best for them. No child is the same. They should not be loved the same. They should not be disciplined the same.-
It is certain in my mind, that there is a significant correlation between what is called intelligence and an individual's ability to handle adversity. Certainly IF there were any direct correlation between spanking and mental developement existed, it would seem only logical that it would affect those who are less mentally strong in a disporportionate degree.
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That much I will definitely agree to. I think that is also more of a parenting issue. If a parent doesn't help their children learn how to handle adversity then who's job is it anyway?
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yes, that playes a part to be certain. Likely this study was done by someone with a political agenda, but it still makes for an interesting discussion, and I have given it far more thought now than I ever intended to
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There isn't anything wrong with that by any means. Seems like a good goal or result for anyone.
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Statistics are bullsht. The only statistic I need is MYSELF. I was spanked, my IQ is fine. Got into college and everything.-
see comment immediately above : |
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Oh no he didn't! Oh wait he did. ZING!
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Does this explain why I have an IQ of 17?-
how often do... um... never mind...
*runs away* -
*jumps on gnome's head*
Sorry, my IQ didn't allow for a verbal/written response.
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So, I guess that means all the people born in the 1970's and earlier, have low IQ's then right? Because most of us, got the living tar whooped outta us if we did something wrong. Switches, Belts, Wooden Paddles,etc...
They only say that crap because they don't want parents spanking their kids. Just like when coffee sales are down, Coffee is good for you, when sales are up, it's not good for you. Go Figure!-
the supposed difference is supposedly like 2-5 points... nothing anyone would necessarily notice. And for the record, my old-school parents dished out plenty of CP too, back in the day.
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@Agit8r--yeah, most kids that actually got spanked turned out pretty good, it was yes mame, no mame, yes sir , no sir. Instead of "yeah" "I ain't doin it" slammin the door and calling their parents names. Kids now adays have not Flakin respect for their parents or other adults. It's so sad.
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No surprise. I'd think the parents would have to be dumb as ticks to spank, making it likely their children would have lower IQ's anyway coupled with the not learning how to reason out disagreements and problems and there ya go.
I think it's a mistake to think everyone was spanked prior to gen x, neither or my parents came from spankers.-
Well, I got spanked, I came out pretty decent,respectful for others and I spanked my kids. They are good adults, have good jobs and are thankful for my discipline. They always thank me for being a good mom and I am very close to my adult kids.
There is a difference between spanking and abuse. Some just don't know the difference
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No surprise. I'd think the parents would have to be dumb as ticks to spank, making it likely their children would have lower IQ's anyway coupled with the not learning how to reason out disagreements and problems and there ya go.
I think it's a mistake to think everyone was spanked prior to gen x, neither or my parents came from spankers. -
No surprise. I'd think the parents would have to be dumb as ticks to spank, making it likely their children would have lower IQ's anyway coupled with the not learning how to reason out disagreements and problems and there ya go.
I think it's a mistake to think everyone was spanked prior to gen x, neither or my parents came from spankers. -
oops
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thank you mistress, may I have another!
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