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Did Obama Commit a Crime when he Bowed to a Muslim King?
Posted by hishaman • 4/09/09 • Subscribe to this Discussion [RSS] • Report This Topic
Topics: america, arabs, crime, king, muslim, obama
Is it a crime when he respect people? Some people says Obama doesn’t know how to behave presidentially, I say why you are jealous? What’s wrong with that?
mylifethinking.com/life/what-media-said-when-obama-bowed-to-saudi-king-on-t...
User Comments
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Why would bowing to a Muslim king be a crime?-
Just wondering because this pissed off some !!
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Some people are looking for any excuse to criticize Obama, but they seem to forget Bush did the same thing, I mean he was holding hands and snogging with Saudi princes, ahem! -
Is this also part of the Royal Saudi Protocol ?
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Do kings bow to each other?-
No, not only is it bad protocol but they would knock each other out.
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I suspect it is okay. As you would still show your respect to those with the same status. But there is a technique to bows. Especially in Japan. The deeper the bow, the more respect is shown. I wonder if it is similar in a Muslim country. Did he belittle his own status by bowing too deeply?
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maybe it's not OK, but it could happen when a person is down earth by nature
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Royalty is above the elected leaders in the protocol pecking order
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These are just a few things
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And what is other things??
can you tell?!
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But did he hold his hand like George Bush held Crown Prince Abdullah's as they strolled through the ranch? That is what I want to know?
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He isn't a slut like George, he would need to meet him at least two more times before they could progress to hand holding.
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He hold the King's both hands dear, you should watch the video well!
tinyurl.com/dhmpko -
George was a slut! "Vladimir, your eyes are so trustworthy"
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I agree with that!
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who exactly are the 'some people' reacting against this admirable (and lacking since the bush administration) display of respect and cultural sensitivity? my guess is the screaming conservatives i find so entertaining listening to on the radio. if america doesn't stop its pretense of excessive power, future history books will have a very ugly chapter called, in the manner of a book by a less than popular american writer, "an american tragedy" by theodore dreiser.-
Americans often curtsey or bow when presented to royalty or religious leaders, it is just a formal courtesy, but not obligatory.
Bush bowed to the Pope
www.spirituallysmart.com/images/bush_bow.jpg
Bush kissed a saudi
www.hermes-press.com/bush_kiss.jpg
Bush Bows to the Queen
news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1445000/images/_1446952_queen300.jpg
so yes, me thinks the screaming conservatives "they doth protest too much" and seem to have collective amnesia about Bush's formal courtesies when overseas. -
They are some people from the media, the are talking about it, I have reached by google, answers, mixx today!
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Yes, but the media is feeding into it, doesn't mean they agree or disagree.
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jafa, point taken, but these are pictures possibly taken over the course of his two presidential terms. obama hasn't even finished his first term yet, let alone his first six-months, and he's managed to circulate a video of well-wishing to iran and bow to some muslim king. bush has done less in showing common respect for heads of state of other countries with which we have extremely poor relations. that bush bows to the queen of england or the pope can hardly be compared to the kind of effort obama is giving. bowing to your friends and allies is a given and requires little; showing respect for a common enemy takes courage and an open-mind.
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Since Saudi Arabia is considered a strong ally, (when did they become formal enemies?) and we have a history of showing formal courtesy (are you forgetting Bush as just one example) then Obama is not really going the distance so to speak.
As for americans bowing and the claim it should not be done, I think the photos of Bush bowing to the queen are very relevant. -
what kinds of polite exchanges has bush made with iran? sanctions hardly figure as a curtsy.
no, you're right, we are strong allies with saudi arabia. consider though that obama has been harshly criticized for 1) his religious background (the koran/bible scandal) and 2) extending a hand at iran who then responded that it would change its policies if america did the same. conservatives essentially viewed this exchange with iranians as negotiating with global terrorists. a bow to a muslim king is factored into this gamut of criticism as part of obama's supposed pro-muslim campaign. this bow to a muslim king is weaved into a much larger fabric that incorporates iran along with it. the muslim king in this case functions merely as a metonymy for all islamic countries (sorry for a literary approach to this).
i contextualized all of these events, as i believe many do when critically examining a seemingly simple bow, and i arrive to the conclusion that obama's bow is less a friendly gesture as a move towards ingratiating himself in the eyes of other muslim countries with which america has strained relations.
i'm not quite sure what you meant by the relevance of bowing to queen elizabeth; by my above conclusions, if we apply the same principles in this case, this bow would be in essence not unlike bowing in front of a mirror. by its relevance, you mean that it shouldn't matter to whom bush or obama bows? that if bush could bow to lizzy, then what's the harm in bowing to a muslim king?
what's interesting here too is the relationship between the UK and the US, especially in the criticism that followed gordon brown's brief but coldly-welcomed visit to the states. surely you recall the story of the 25 unwatchable dvds, which the UK press just ate up. -
" a bow to a muslim king is factored into this gamut of criticism as part of obama's supposed pro-muslim campaign."
Supposed being the key word here. The criticism itself does not make it valid or prove anything. We have a relationship with Saudi Arabia, and regardless of what Americans might personally think of the Saudi belief system, it is incumbent on our leaders to act with courtesy and diplomacy when visiting THEIR country. For some to try and imply there is something more simply because our president bowed is disingenuous to say the least. -
you can't possibly think that there's nothing beyond the surface. bows are like words; they can be literal and/or figurative. how they're understood by others is not for you to decide nor is it mine.
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i suppose -
I don't understand why bowing to someone is a crime? If it is customary to greet a Muslim King that way...what's the problem?-
It wasn't a crime so much as perhaps a breach of protocol. It was a full bow, which Obama shouldn't have done as I understand it, because it implies acceptance of Fahd's leadership. -
@Dinsquared , I understand this point of protocol, and I think Obama shouldn't do it this way, but it OK if he did because he showed respect!
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And what is wrong with acknowledging a king as a leader? Bush did the same when he bowed to the Queen, doesn't mean HE himself gave fealty, just a courteous acknowledgment of their position as a king of queen of their nation.
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It's a matter of degree, again - as I understand it. Partial bow = respect, full bow = fealty. The hubub is that Obama shouldn't give a full bow to anyone as a leader of his own nation.
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First it is claimed americans should NOT bow, and when it is pointed out that previous presidents have done so, then the nit picking starts as to how much. It is nitpicking.
Did Bush give the Queen of England fealty when he bowed to her? -
Why wouldn't he accept Fahd's leadership? If he was meeting him, in a peaceful meeting of leaders, then he already accepts his leadership. To not accept his leadership would be an insult, wouldn't it?
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There are more important things that people should bother about.. some unscrupulous guys make use of such silly things.. probably to get noticed.-
Thanks for your opinion!
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When you treat people with respect, they're more likely to want to work things out. When you try to bully people, they're more likely to respond with anger and rejection. So Obama did right, even if he did bow too low or whatever.
As far as Bush, he was in bed with the bin-Laden family.-
LOL!
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The bin-Ladens aren't Saudis.
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Bush was in bed with the Bin Ladin family. His first response after 9/11 was to organize planes to fly the Bin Laden family out of the states. Everyone else was grounded, except them.
Hmmm. Why? It's not like average Americans were even aware of who the Bin Ladens were prior to 9/11. -
where did you get the idea they are not Saudi? or the family doesn't have vested financial interests in Saudi Arabia.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bin_Laden_family
bin laden was born in Saudi Arabia
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osama_bin_Laden#Childhood.2C_education_and_personal_l...
yes his father was a yemmeni immigrant, but for all intents and purposes they are Saudis just as immigrant children and grandchildren in America are American. -
His first response after 9/11 was to organize planes to fly the Bin Laden family out of the states. Everyone else was grounded, except them.
That's what it looked like in Fahrenheit 9/11, but I believe they were flown out about a week after the attack. Still, the Bush family had extensive business ties to the bin Laden family. Funny how we never heard much about that in the news. If it had been a democrat, we would have never heard the end of it. -
Yes, Bin Laden is Saudi. That's why we trusted him during the Mujahideen during the 80's. Of course that sort of thing never happened to our government before... what?... oh yeah Ho Chi Mihn, I forgot
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well, the bin laden family as a whole is not evil...there are an awful lot of them.
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of course, every body has their own existence for that everybody should respect to others, isn't it?
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I agree on that , thanks!
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what is a muslim king?
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I agree with the "when in Rome" arguement. From now on when foriegn leaders come to Washington, they will need to give Obama a fist-bump.
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Here we go with some more of the ostrich-think... let's stick our heads in the sand and make a completely unimportant issue front page news so we don't have to think about the ridiculously huge real problems. lalalalala
Is Saudi Arabia going to invade the US now? Is Obama going to start sending weekly gifts of gold to the king? Is America going to become part of Saudi Arabia now? No to all of these. So what if he is a Muslim king...what's wrong with Muslims? Would it be okay if he was a Christian king?
Respect for others is certainly something that is a good value to have in the White House.
Really, aren't there more important things to worry about? Major, huge important issues that threaten the fate of the world....like...keeping dangerous gays out of the military....or what kind of dress Michelle Obama is wearing.-
When something stupid like this comes up, it's a good time to find out what congress is doing. Chances are they are cramming some legislation through, that the powers-that-be want to whitewash over.
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That is so stupid. If they're picking at every little behaviour or word, they're looking to find something wrong. -
Because bowing is the customary greeting for Arabians I suspect the Saudi leader would return the initial bow of greeting were he to visit President Obama at the White House. It's all diplomatic protacall (sp?) -
wrong spot
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Of course it was not a crime for him to bow. Come on folks, I cannot believe we are having such a silly and meaningless debate! -
Not even close to kissing the oil kings of the middle east.
Who did this please answer if you read this. -
I think bowing is a universal sign of respect for the person's position or a way of greeting - or a way of showing your good intentions. -
I don't think bowing is that big of a deal...but having to kiss on the lips for the sake of diplomacy...that really is asking a lot. -
he he he
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It is not a crime to respect other people but the leader of the United States does not bow to any man. Bowing shows submission to that other person which is not a crime. In that part of the world subjects bow but leaders give a kiss on the check in respect to each other. Mr. Obama by bowing showed he lacks the qualities of a great American President. If the president bows to anyone it should be to God.-
I agree, Thanks!
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Inclark- I also agree with what you are saying. The White House should have just admitted Obama bowed, said it was a screw up, it will not happen again, and moved on with their lives. Since the White House is trying to deny it, this annoyance for them keeps lingering. -
I agree -
okay to bow to the queen of england though, right?
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