Discussions
Do animals have souls?
Posted by Arashmania • 6/30/08 • Subscribe to this Discussion [RSS] • Report This Topic
Topics: animals, descartes, immortality, Nature, Opinion, philosophy, Psychology, religion, soul
Studying philosophy these days and stumbling upon people like Descartes who claim that animals are mere machines and that only humans have a soul, I was wondering where most people (bloggers) stand on these days. Does your cat, dog, or fish have an immortal (Christian) soul?
User Comments
-
Well, I'm not christian ... don't think my cat is either. -
If Rene said it, it's probably true
The good thing about owning pets is that if one dies, you can get a replacement at the drop of a dime. You can get one that looks identical to the one you have now even, just drive up to your local pet dealer, throw the dead dog on the counter and say "Gimme another one of those!!!" -
Descartes was nothing short of an imbecile to come to that conclusion.-
and no-one has a Christian soul...ther's no clubs out there in the deep
-
-
well I called my dog Francis after St. Francis of assisi -
nah, I didn't really, bet it made someone laugh though
-
It's a nice name. I would call a dog St Anthony
I had a budgie called Tansen, named after the great Indian musician from the court of Akbar the Great
-
-
My dog is Jew. Her soul pure and her wee wee pads soiled. -
You know there's goofy psychics out there who convince people that their old dog's soul is trapped inside their new dogs'? Man, the gene pool is polluted...
-
I like that :-)
-
lol
-
-
My wife says my dog is Catholic, her soul pure but the wee wee pads - still soiled
-
I`m no religious person, but if I were to decide whether an animal has a soul or not, I would consider it`s self awareness as a criteria. (there are many different animals)
for example:
Is the animal aware of it`s own existence? (I know... this is hard to answer)
Does is feel? (happiness and sadness not pain)-
I think an animal must know it exist. If it didn't know it existed, it wouldn't be able to acknowledge itself nor its own biological signals that tell it when it is hungry, thirsty, wants to play, should run away from danger, etc...
-
-
People are animals too.
-
We're the only species that kills the same species purely for fun. We're also the only species that will have sex with a dead member of our own species. A rat will do a lot of disgusting things, but it will not have sex with another dead rat.
And don't even get me started on those mindless trips people make to starbucks and now they're shelling out 5 dollars for a gallon of gas instead of taking the bus or riding a moped. I will never understand the concept of a drive-thru for an overpriced cup of coffee. -
[EDIT: this is a reply to morgantj not to riverstyxxx]
I oppose that!
Humans are aware that they will die one day and they are definitely aware of their own personality and existence. This must not be true for animals...
Although intelligent animals feel, we don`t know if they realize these things -
I hear ya riverstyxxx. The elevated consciousness, a gift, or a drag?
-
Egbert, just because we know we will die one day and we are aware of our own personality and existence doesn't make us any less an animal. We are still animals, just animals that know we will die some day and are aware of our own personality and existence.
-
I just think people are too preoccupied with trivial things. Materialism, the car they drive and how loud it is, paying cell phone bills, Mcdonalds, American Idol..More people vote in American Idol than in the presidential elections, yet complain when it's convenient for them.
-
morgantj said:
"just because we know we will die one day and we are aware of our own personality and existence doesn't make us any less an animal."
This is true from a biological point of view but since this is a philosophical / religious discussion self awareness does make a difference. -
riverstyxxx, yes, it's so easy to survive these days, man doesn't have to work so hard on figuring out what he is going to eat or drink, where is he going to find shelter, ect... It's all taken of already. In most places anyways. So man has a lot of free time he didn't have in the past, so he is doing all these trivial things, and trying to figure out "why am I here?" When it used to be, day to day concern with survival, not time to think why. I'm concerned that there may be a backlash of this lifestyle.
-
Egbert, Why do you think that animals other then us are not self aware?
-
I said "it must not be true for animals" which means that we don`t know if they (or some of them) are or not. But that does not mean that I think we are different. I don`t know what`s the truth, and we`ll never know... that`s what I wanted to point out.
You said that humans and animals ARE the same, thats why i opposed you, `cause we don`t know... -
No, I said that we are animals too. Not that we are the same as all other animals. The point was that we are animals, and we are self aware, so it is possible for an animal to be self aware because we are proof of that. Whether or not all other animals are self aware or not, is up for discussion.
-
-
Do people have souls? And can you prove it? Just asking. Buzz Buzz.-
I don't think so. And I can't prove it.
-
The one thing all major religions have in common is they believe in a soul. You should've seen the simpsons episode where bart sells his soul to milhouse...Who then trades it for Alf Pogs when it gets boring.
-
Hi Morg: It is a hard one to prove and I wouldn't bother trying. But there are techniques for vacating the body and travelling, generally not recommendable. From my own experience I'm quite clear beyond a doubt that there is something that exists and moves beyond the body. I am aware that some psychologists would put it into the category of imagination etc but I have had so many personal experiences that it's very clear for me.
-
I believe you believe that acoustic. But as you know, I do not.
-
It's great to happily disagree, I wish more people could disagree like us...
a good example would be my wife :-) -
Who/what do you think it is the one who looks through your physical eyes?
-
-
A dog thinks therefore she (he) is. Quite simple.-
a dog sniff therefore it is, might bebetter :-)
-
you know this... but does the dog know?
-
Yep. Just observe dogs for a while. They are there, but they are doing it a bit differently. Somethings we are a bit better at (e.g. invention), some things they are better at (living off their owner). You decide which is more clever.
-
I miss my doberman, he was the best dog ever.
-
Don't be sad. You'll be seeing him again.
-
Hey river..it might re-incarnate as a chicken :-)
But seriously dogs are great companions -
About whether dogs know they exist, here's an excerpt from The Human Mind by Robert Winston:
"Babies develop a me-self some time between eighteen months and two years of age. A classic experiment to prove self-awareness involves painting a red dot on a baby's nose and then placing him or her in front of a mirror. Babies who are self-aware understand that the dot resides on their nose and will thus touch it with their finger. They may even cry because they think they have a blemish; I have even seen some chuckle and keep rubbing it. But babies who have not yet developed this sense, or who have some impairment, will reach out and touch the mirror. Studies performed on chimpanzees in the 1960s seemed to show that they too may have this degree of me-self awareness, though, if they do - and it is somewhat controversial - they develop it substantially later than human infants, at around six years of age. Other animals such as dogs, which are undoubtedly intelligent, do not understand what they are looking at. I did this experiment with a spaniel recently who grew very excited at seeing 'another dog', and who soon was looking behind the mirror to search for his new friend."
I'm not sure if presence of mind, as demonstrated by the above, is the same as having a soul. I don't think it is entirely, actually, because of the part about infants with impairments not having a proper presence of mind, and I'm sure even human infants have souls. But I think it shows that what I said about defining an animal properly (see below) may have some truth to it.
-
-
I think they have as much of a soul as we do, but I don't think they're bothered with following a religion. -
I wonder what the current stance of the Church is towards animals. I believe the current Pope, for example, loves cats. If animals have souls they could by defintion go to either heaven or hell (or roast in purgatory for a while). Can animals then actually be good or evil, do they have a sense of morality?
-
the first question for me is: do such thing as soul exist?-
I don't think so. There is no evidence that supports it. Not to mention, if souls did exist and if animals didn't have souls as the op suggested then we wouldn't have souls either since we too, are animals.
-
there's also no evidence that says that it doesn't exist.
-
-
No only humans have a soul and are capable of having a relationship with the creator. -
do animals have soul? Yes! -
Animals like human beings have souls. All living creatures have...but they are not Christians either... So it is all the living souls and not only Christians.
-
Souls from any living being is based on mythology, and is still a myth regardless if the belief is popular or revived.
-
We have six sense or perhaps more sense, other animals are not so complete, short of one or more sense, too bad.
Let's show some compassion to them if we can. -
lordiwanttobewhole.blogspot.com/2007/05/today-at-cafeteria-some-of-us-stude...
I actually did a blog about this awhile back! maybe you will enjoy it... -
You bet!! Rene Descartes was a genius without any doubt but not because that there is necessary true every concept he postulated. Another of the greatest geniuses of all the times was Aristotle and he thought that the earth was flat instead of spheric it doesn´t implies that he were wrong about anything else.
Best Regards,
Daniel Cajiga
danielcajiga.com -
Souls evolves, we change, we enhance ourselved while time past. Count on it.
Best Regards,
Daniel Cajiga
danielcajiga.com
Do you remember yourself as a fish? hehehe. Try to. Belive it or not. -
What's a soul? -
Your thread was one of our topics in apologetics, and this explanation may help clear your thoughts about the issue --
Do animals have souls? Animals may be said to have souls—if the word “soul” is used as the Bible employs it in discussing members of the animal kingdom (i.e., to describe only the physical life force found within all living creatures). But if the word “soul” is used to refer to an immortal soul that one day will inhabit heaven or hell, then no, animals may not be said to possess a soul. This is the only conclusion that can be drawn, respecting the instruction on the subject found within the Word of God.-
-
I don't like any God that would exclude animals from eternal life. He can strike me dead for saying that, but I believe the real thing has some sense. -
Thanks for you comment! In the Christian tradition animals have been considered subject to human rule, as I believe in Genesis Adam is told to rule over them. There is something that I find puzzling though. Do you think there are animals in paradise? According to the Bible, it was a snake that tempted Adam and Eve ...
-
-
I believe they do. I don't have a religion, or dogma however, like set of sins and a to do list that God likes. I believe in reincarnation (despite what you do in your life) and I also believe in animal reincarnation. I believe though, that animals can switch "shape" and that my dog has been my horse in a previous life - previous to both of us. You can call me crazy, I don't mind.
-
-
of course, they are created by God too.-
...and have inomortal evolutive souls, they´ll become humans and angels after that...
Best Regards,
Daniel Cajiga
danielcajiga.com -
-
-
The bible says they do:
Ecclesiastes 3
3:20 All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.
3:21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?
But the bible was written by man. Man who have an instinct for survival, who go such lengths to create fiction to fool himself into thinking he will survive beyond death.-
Fiction? You´re fiction.
Best Regards,
Daniel Cajiga -
um. okay. LOL.
-
@ DanielCajiga
No...morgantj is real.
You might wish people like he and I were fiction. -
morgan, maybe you should learn to write some fiction so you can learn to write grammatically correct sentences. in any case, it's always entertaining to read comments from someone who babbles endlessly about his own self-aggrandizing reductive philosophical agenda, yet can't seem to figure out the very simple mechanism of english grammar. you are a native speaker of english, right?
-
Morgan, spirits and souls are two different things. The bible never says that animals have souls. If they did have souls they would need salvation, and the bible never says that Jesus died for an animal.
-
-
I hope there is no racism :-), actually I'm not a Christian, I'm a Muslim, and if you asked "do animal have soul?". My answer is yes, they can feel hurt to don't they? Hehehe...
But I don't know if animal have a religion like us, because they haven't mind
best regard,
eapsoft.blogspot.com -
I have no idea honestly. But a soul has no religion I think.-
yup right
-
-
yes , animals have souls -
-
@ Arashmania
Q: Do you think there are animals in paradise? According to the Bible, it was a snake that tempted Adam and Eve ...
Here are the Holy Bible verses about the living creatures in the garden of Eden:
20 And God said, "Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the vault of the sky." 21 So God created the great creatures of the sea and every living and moving thing with which the water teems, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 22 God blessed them and said, "Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the water in the seas, and let the birds increase on the earth." 23 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fifth day.
24 And God said, "Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: livestock, creatures that move along the ground, and wild animals, each according to its kind." And it was so. 25 God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.
26 Then God said, "Let us make human beings in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, [a] and over all the creatures that move along the ground."
27 So God created human beings in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.
28 God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground."
29 Then God said, "I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. 30 And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds in the sky and all the creatures that move on the ground—everything that has the breath of life in it—I give every green plant for food." And it was so.
31 God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the sixth day. -
Jesus Christ did not come to die for animals... but, for sinners. And, according to God, that is you and I.
www.codybateman.org -
Yes they do! I have the most beautiful Hasky Collie mix. -
What is a soul? Is it the spiritual life force that enters our body at birth and leaves at death keeping us alive in between? Is it the personality and emotions that make us up? Or is it the creation of clergy used to control the masses by promising greatness rather than nothingness after death?
Most believe that without a soul we would not live. That out bodies if you will, house the spirit. Gives it physical form. However without a soul, our bodies cannot exist. Or at least so says the pundits of a soul. Considering the physiology of man and beast is very similar, how is it their bodies can exist without a soul and ours can't?
As for unique personality, anyone who has a pet understand that their pets all have unique personalities just like we all do. So if our soul allows us to feel love, joy, happiness, inner peace and contentment, as well as anger, fear, terror, and hatred, then what is the source out these emotions in our pets? And yes I have seen emotions in my pets.
So that leads me to the possibility that the whole concept of souls and an afterlife is nothing but an illusion. A vague promise that is used to justify the sacrifice and suffering of our dismal existence.
Need Proof?
Suicide bombers flying planes into buildings with the expectation of an eternity with 75 virgins. My question is this. Is eternity only 75 nights? Cause if it isn't when will the novelty wear off.
Okay, bad joke.
How about the millions of people who died in the name of Jesus, believing that there is glory waiting for them. Worse yet, how many people committed murder and other atrocities in the name of God. The Spanish Inquisition, The Salem Witch Hunts, as well as The Holocaust come to mind. Acts of evil committed to save souls.
I cannot see how, as a creation of God, with a spark of life inside, with unique personalities, that our pets are unable to have a soul. God is not that selfish. But man is, and egotistical enough to think they have an exclusive.-
Does that mean, though, that everything living, since a soul is a "spiritual life force", has a soul? What about bacteria? But I realise now I haven't defined even a living thing properly, haha. Though according to Wikipedia, even viruses are living things.
-
-
It depends, strangely enough, on how you define an animal. A large, somewhat sentient animal like an elephant, maybe. What about a one-celled animal like a paramecium? I'm quite sure it doesn't. You can't generalise across all "animals".
-
Dog is God spelled backwards. Who am I to say? -
um no -
Humans are animals. -
I don't see why not? I mean if there is a soul in humans, why can't there be a soul in every living creature? But i am not sure....can somebody enlighten me? Jojo-
Jojo,
The soul is what animates a living being. Animals have a soul, but it is not a human soul. So too do plants.
Further, the soul is not a religious concept, as it was discovered by Greek Pagan philosophers (for the Western world) - as the principle of life. -
double post
-
How do you know that humans have souls? I'm sure scientists would love to hear what (if any) proof you could possibly have.
-
Science never looks at quality, only quantity. For humans, the soul can be experimented internally as a principle of life, and can be induced as a principle of being. More in due time.
-
-
In accounts of near-death out-of-body experiences, the dead often report being greeted by their deceased loves ones at the “tunnel of light”. There were also reports that pets have appeared along with the relatives. If these reports reflect reality, then perhaps animals do have souls. And that is comforting thought for people who love their pets. -
I read about this for many years. From what I gather, only humans have a soul and can live on. I wouldn't think billions of animals would actually be brought back to life. Otherwise you have to bring back the stray cats, stray dogs, frogs, mice... It wouldn't make much sense. -
If you have ever seen an animal abused,
you would know that they do.
Many say that they do not have souls. And they give all kinds of rationals to prove themselves. They are known as "pet" owners. -
I'll answer your question with one of my own. If you were not told you had a soul, would you know you had one? -
The Bible does not mention anything about animals having a soul. It only mentions people as far as I know. Anyone that goes by the Bible would have to side with animals having no soul.
-
I might know.
Sometimes you feel you are out of your body, or your mind is seperate from your body. This happens even with non-death experiences. I would also know from reading the Bible and believe that. -
So, people who do not believe in God or the bible don't believe they or they pets have souls?
-
I only speak for myself and what I believe in. Too much to start going into everything.
-
Then my answer is no, animals do not have a soul.
-
-
As for what the bible has to say about animal souls, here is a hint with this quote from the bible:
“Are not five sparrows sold for two farthings, and not one of them is forgotten before God?”
If God does not forget a single sparrow, and they remain in His memory, then I’d say animals have immortality too, if not quite like human immortality.-
Yep! Can't argue with the Word of God.
-
-
yes, they do. and if you euthanize your pets, they haunt you.
-
wrong place
-
I think depend on your religion though..im not christian and neither do to my pets i believe...they have soul but not religion. -
I think yes. Animals do have when considered to Christian faith, they are creation of God.
friedpal.blogspot.com -
I've read once that Red Indians believe that everything around us has a spirit, or a soul, for that matter. They call it a Manitou. So does the ancient Egyptians. -
Not only that, some fish ARE soles!
www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/553146/sole -
lol!! -
Any creature that can reasonably commit any action has a so-called soul. What we call the soul is the reasonable essence in the body of any living creature. The essences of animals in contrast to a human is on a different level of development. -
Animals definitely have awareness of life and death - some apes have been seen paying heir respect to a dead friend or family member. Does it mean they have souls? I guess it depends on what anyone call a soul. Not everyone believes in souls as defined by Christianity, so I don't know. What I know for sure is that animals, no matter the species, have personality, so they are definitely not machines. Sorry Blaise Pascal!
Add Your Comment
Login to leave a message.
