Discussions
Do Homosexuals Have A Choice?
Posted by lotusb • 7/11/08 • Subscribe to this Discussion [RSS] • Report This Topic
Now, this is a huge topic, I know. I'm not gay, so I don't know how that feels. I understand the scientific/psychological impulse of feeling attracted to the same sex simply because I went to college and read books. I don't emotionally understand, but I would like to know what other's think. Studies have shown that an over bearing mother and an abscent father along with other variables can cause a child to be gay at a very early age, even as an toddler. Some studies even suggest that certain brain chemicals are weaker or not present in some homosexuals that produce strong sexual tendencies.
What do you think? PLEASE LETS ALL BE NICE, AND WATCH HOW WE WORD THINGS....IM NOT TRYING TO START ARGUMENTS, JUST WANT TO KNOW WHAT OTHERS THINK. 
User Comments
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I believe some people are born gay, some people become gay and some people experiment with it but aren't really gay.
I also believe that wayyy too many good looking men are batting for the wrong team.
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There's also the view that humans are inherently pansexual but most tend to stick to a specific gender due to societal pressures. -
Woowzah!! I agree with that, I've seen some nice, straight looking gay men. One of my best friends is one of those guys. Lol..
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@voodoo
Never heard of that. The whole man on man/ girl on girl thing kind of makes procreation difficult... -
Of the four great apes, we share the most DNA with the bonobos, who are pansexual but only procreate by heterosexual, vaginal intercourse. Bonobos are also very polygamous (and not sexist about it, either).
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@voodoo
If humans were supposed to be or act like monkeys, I'm sure we would all be and act like monkeys. I for one, am not a monkey. -
Well, homosexuality might be nature's way of controlling the population, and stealing all the good looking guys away from us womenfolk.
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That's irrelevant. I was mentioning another viewpoint, not endorsing it.
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Lotus, humans are animals, however - and many animals - not just monkeys - exhibit similar behaviors as described by Voodoo. -
For the record Chelle, despite my rugged good looks, I am not gay -
they have a choice to ask for there rights and pleasures... -
I'm sure no one questioned your sexuality Ekim. lol
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Actually as a psychotherapy student and a bisexual I would say your parents have nothing to do with your sexuality. I'm relatively certain that traumatic experiences in ones childhood cause gayness.-
I'm confused, so you agree or you don't?
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Do you really think that most traumatic experiences that happen to small children are NOT coming from the children's parents? -
I know identical twins, one is gay, the other isn't and they both went through the same traumatic childhood. I also know of many people who are gay, who didn't have traumatic childhoods, and many who did and aren't gay.
How would you explain that?
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What difference does it make.
Are people born hetorosexual? Or does society make them that way. Who cares, people are people.-
Seconded.
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"Who cares" is not the topic of discussion. One could say that about any and all discussions posted on this forum. It's a bases to discuss and view others opinions. If you don't care, I'd like to know why you clicked on "reply"?
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Well, I clicked on reply because that's my answer, and obviously voodoo agrees with me ... which you seemed to overlook.
Anway, ones sexuality is a non-issue. People are people ... so why even question it. -
Hear! hear! -
Well said!
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Do heterosexuals have a choice?
It would stand to reason that if people have the ability to choose to be homosexual, then they also have the ability to choose to be heterosexual, and could change their mind at any moment.
Just sayin' -
My gay friends all tell me they wouldn't be straight if you paid them. I'm sure if choice is involved most people who prefer to be gay would be gay.
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I've met some young children who I knew were going to be gay, and my instinct turned out to be right. I think biologically, some people have no choice, don't you?
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Gay people have as much choice to be gay as black people have to be black.
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Lotus, Chelle - I agree with you both, and i for one, have always maintained the same sexual preferences I always have - and out of 7 kids, only two have any inclination for homosexuality or bisexuality.
SO it stands to reason that environment has little to do with it.
I just posed the question above because it really is the best way to illustrate the absurdity that it is all choice. -
@offended
I'm not completely sold. I mean who is to say you were "born" straight or gay? We don't even posess the emotional maturaity at birth to process "preference", so how could we prefer a certain sex? We could be born masculine and born feminine, and because society cookie cuts these patterns of behaivior, those people could be systematically and subconsiously conditioned to belive that it must mean they sexually prefer the same sex. Think about that... I personally think the whole topic is very interesting. -
comment removed by the community.
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[(i fight ignorence with ignorence...)]
...and spelling mistakes. -
@lotusb ... yeah, cuz no one with a black heritage ever tried to pass as white. not everyone can do it, but i do think it's a similar comparison (not exact, but it is similar ... at least for me). some gay people can absolutely not hide it no matter how hard they try. some are consummate actors who can fake it. -
Dave Chapelle's "Black White Supremacist" skit comes to mind
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I think they 'choose' to be homosexual as much as others 'choose' to be heterosexual or bisexual.
www.newscientist.com/channel/sex/dn14146-gay-brains-structured-like-those-o...
I remember seeing a comic a while back titled 'The Gay Lifestyle' and it was of two people sitting at the table for breakfast and it said something like, "Can you pass me the orange juice?"
Shocking! They're people, too. -
From the few gay men and the many lesbian women I have talked about this with (having been very embarassingly homophobic in my younger years), I don't believe it is a choice. It's not, "Oh, wouldn't it be delightful if I could suck that guy's wang!" Attraction is attraction is attraction.
There are some girls I've felt emotionally connected to but physically turned off by. -
wow.
i'm stunned this many responses are here and there's still no nastiness. @lotusb here i thought i would wanna smack someone in this thread, but either those folks haven't found this thread yet, or your phrasing in the OP is keeping people in line! -
Me too! I was hoping for a nice discussion, nothing rude or imature. I totally respect everyone's opinions here that have been stated...and I'm glad they came to share.
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wrong spot
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No, they do not have a choice.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biology_and_sexual_orientation
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prenatal_hormones_and_sexual_orientation
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraternal_birth_order_and_sexual_orientation
p.s. It exists in the animal kingdom too.-
Animal homosexuality has been researched as uncharacteristic. Meaning it's considered an abnormality.
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@ Uri Thank you.
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Consider this: A society that represses homosexual behavior will have more homosexual genes.
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it's not "the norm" any more than it is the "the norm" for humans to be gay. it is "abnormal" only in the sense that the species would die out if it were "the norm." you're using abnormal as a scientific term here rather than the commonplace meaning.
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Isn't anything that is not in the majority or in wide supply considered an abnormality, technically? Many people still view human homosexuality as an abnormality, maybe someday animal homosexuality will be viewed as normal (and, hopefully, human homosexuality will be considered normal by more people soon). -
I don't see why it's such a bad thing that because of one's environment or preference they choose to be gay. It dosen't make it anymore wrong or right. I think people like to belive they don't have a choice so on some level they don't have to accept responsibility.
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If we keep having Alan Turings (brilliant, successful people who happen to be gay), that might happen within our lifetimes.
[I think people like to believe they don't have a choice so on some level they don't have to accept responsibility.]
What about the men who say that after they began feeling attracted to guys, girls didn't do anything for them anymore? And vice-versa in the case of lesbians? -
Accept responsibility for what?
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Let me correct myself then: I was using it to explain how I think it's viewed.
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@ lotusb: For what is there to accept responsibility?
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Accept responsibility for whatever their lifestyle lead to. Be it critisism or family drama or whatever trial they are faced with because of their sexual preference.
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I know plenty of gay men who have said they don't belive they were born gay. That they have certain preferences based on the way they just turned out and that they are proud of who they are. Nothing wrong with that.
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But ... I don't think hetorosexuals go around thinking they are the way they are because of nature so that they don't have to accept responsibility for their lifestyle ... so I don't think homosexuals think that way either. You make it sound like gays/lesbians have something to be guilty about.
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I don't see why it's such a bad thing that because of one's environment or preference they choose to be gay. It dosen't make it anymore wrong or right. I think people like to belive they don't have a choice so on some level they don't have to accept responsibility.
okay, now we're really going to disagree.
i did not choose to be attracted to the same sex. i have loads of friends of the opposite sex, but the thought of it going beyond friendship just feels like ... well, inherently wrong.
my father did not make me gay.
my mother did not make me gay.
i did not choose to be gay.
i simply feel no attraction to any member of the opposite sex. none.
i do feel attraction for a select subset of the same sex.
hence, i'm gay. -
Lotusb said: "Accept responsibility for whatever their lifestyle lead to. Be it critisism or family drama or whatever trial they are faced with because of their sexual preference."
Can the same be said of a heterosexual? -
No, I said that possibly saying they were BORN that way is allowing some people not to take responsibility. If I say I was born with an anger problem, then perhaps I'm excused from flying off the handle. If it's a behaivior I picked up as an adult, it's a lot less acceptable.
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It's not considered to be an abnormality in animals
it's pretty common, in over three hundred species - well observed and documented -
*claps for ender*
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Development is different from choice.
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Lotusb said, "No, I said that possibly saying they were BORN that way is allowing some people not to take responsibility. If I say I was born with an anger problem, then perhaps I'm excused from flying off the handle. If it's a behaivior I picked up as an adult, it's a lot less acceptable."
Well sure, people have certain temperaments and I know when to grant someone a bit more leeway than another - but I guess you have to be rational on whether you can 'blame their sexual preference.' If a gay man has cheated with someone's husband and is breaking up marriages left and right, this goes far beyond his sexual pref. I dont' think anyone would say to themselves, 'It's okay - dont' blame him. He was born gay." -
Cheating on your spouse and being gay are separate issues.
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@Voodoo. Yes - that's what I was trying to say. I guess I'm not fully comprehending the question she posed.
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Exactly @ender, Among the population of Bozeman, Montana a preference for spicy tuna rolls with a glass of plum wine would count as 'abnormal'.
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I don't think anyone would willingly choose to be looked down upon as homosexuality still is today.
Whether it is nature or nurture... I lean toward nature. -
At weddings they have the same choice as everyone else, chicken or beef.-
mmmm, chicken.
wait. weddings? gay people can have weddings? are you sure???? -
In the USA, only in California and Massachusetts.
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Well obviously not that would be mad, who ever heard of a gay wedding? I meant when they are invited to normal peoples weddings.
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LOL...good point
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lol ingenious.
(sorry, voodoo, i was being sarcastic. should have made that more clear.)
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DISREGARD WHAT I SAID EARLIER IN THIS PART. Everyone should answer it.
Would you have chosen to be gay if given the choice? Disregard the relationships you currently have, please. I'm being hypothetical.-
excellent point, voodoo.
let's see, would i choose:
to be kicked out of the house
to be shunned by my family
to be constantly berated by my mother and reminded that i was going to hell (this is when she was not shunning me)
to be told that my partner and i could not rent a 1 bdrm apt together
to be denied a job b/c the employer suspected that i was gay
to be denied any kind of spousal benefits b/c i can't get legally married
to be made fun of
to be berated for making the wrong choice about my "lifestyle"
to be kicked out of churches on suspicion of being gay
to be told repeatedly i was going to hell when someone found out i was gay
to have a nurse refuse to listen to my partner's answers about my health whilst i was having an asthma attack so bad that i couldn't breathe (the nurse insisted that *i* answer despite the lack of breath)
to fear whether the seller of our house would back out of the deal once they discovered they were selling to "some queers"
to be accosted in the mall on suspicion of being gay
umm, yeah. really. i like all of that.
not. -
I'm bisexual - and I never thought about choosing one way or the other, to be honest.
I do remember however, when I was a little girl (old enough to start "liking" people but not really old enough to understand what my hormones were telling me, exactly) that I was VERY uncomfortable having sleepovers with other girls, and/or changing in front of other girls. I couldn't pin point what it was exactly - except for the fact that I had dreams about girls that made me "feel funny" if you know what I mean.
I felt the same way in their presence, as well.
The same went for boys.
Now I know what that funny feeling was - sexual attraction. But I was way too young to make any kind of "choice" regarding that attraction, since I didn't even know what it was. It was immediate, and certainly not designed by me -
I know what you mean Anok I have those "feel funny" dreams but mine are about waterfalls. They usually happen after I have spent the day in the pub.
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Straight people go through drama as well, from relationships and from life in general. Just because something is tough dosen't mean we do it because we have no choice.
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@ Anin SO when I camp out at your house, I'm to expect plastic sheets, then?
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You know it doll face.
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the point, lotusb, is that i would not choose a lifestyle which would pretty much guarantee that i would go through all of those "tough" things.
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"Straight people go through drama as well, from relationships and from life in general. Just because something is tough dosen't mean we do it because we have no choice."
Choosing a relationship versus no relationship is different then choosing a man over a woman or vice versa. -
What ender said. Knowing I was gay from from a very early age and ended up leaving home at 13 over the matter resulted in my not exactly living up to my potential.
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Oh Ender! I am so sorry for you to experience these hurtful things. Hugs ♥ -
If I were your typical straight man, it would be very difficult for me to realistically answer the question. However, I have gained insight due to the friendships I've made over the years, and I have a very objective mind:
No.
With society what it is today, there are no rational (and not many irrational) reasons a person would choose to be gay. There are only two forces that could cause a person to make this choice, and they don't really count as "choices" at all: Love and lust.
Those are the only reasons I could see that a person could (irrationally) choose to be gay.
I hold the theory that it is not something that can be chosen, but discovered. -
No one ever asks if hetorosexuals have a choice, lol. I find it odd and a bit frustrating.
You're attracted who you're attracted to ... it's hard wired in your brain. I don't think most people sit around trying to decide if they're attracted to one gender or the other ... they just are or not.
The larger point, is what does it matter? I think it only matters to people who have issues with homosexualtiy ... but, I could be wrong ... I dunno.
I've never wondered what makes a person gay or straight ... I just accept that that's what they are and move on. -
[I think it only matters to people who have issues with [homosexuality].]
It matters to me because I have issues with people who have issues with homosexuality.
[No one ever asks if hetorosexuals have a choice, lol. I find it odd and a bit frustrating.]
This point was already made several times (probably by you; too lazy to check) and I was going to move to this point eventually anyway.
However, in terms of being accepted by society, most people would opt for being straight. It's rational in the sense that it comes with less harassment.
However, attraction is highly irrational. So I agree, accept what they are and move on. -
well, that too voodoo. which is where i figured this was going.
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@ voo doo
what you said makes a lot of sense. I really appriciate your strong perspective, although we don't see eye to eye at least you don't talk outta your ass... -
Wow Ender, I can't start to imagine all this painful stuff you had to go through. I do hope that skateboarding vacation in Ireland with Gina Gershon will take some of that pain away.
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lol uri. that does sound like a good time!
and umm, wow. thanks to everyone who expressed sympathy. i didn't expect that nor say it to garner attention which makes the sympathy very meaningful to me. -
[i didn't expect that nor say it to garner attention which makes the sympathy very meaningful to me.]
I picked up on that, and thought that you might get offended if I patronized you.
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@voodoo
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When I was a young girl of eighteen, my friend made this statement. "I believe that everyone is born gay." I became very upset with his idea. I was quite young and not very open minded about this subject.
Over the years, I have thought about his profound opinion many, many times and I shall not only agree with him, but I will add a bit more. "It is likely everyone is born with the propensity toward attraction to any person. By our upbringing, it is that the majority of people do not choose to be gay ... they choose to be straight, because that is the acceptable norm."
Personally, I am drawn to the opposite sex. -
I know many people that refuse to label themselves as either straight, gay, bi - they just say they're 'purely sexual beings.'
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... And that is a politically correct statement.
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wrong place.
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wrong place too.
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@ voo doo
I think u are an expert...Im learning a lot from u
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So what do you think, Lotus?
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I think that the penis is the perfect shape for the vagina. I thinks procreation seems more convenient between a man and a woman. I belive that the feminine woman and the masculine male create the perfect balence. It makes more sense that we were meant to be straight. I also belive that those I love who are homosexual are that way because they were meant to be. I'm somewhat torn, but I more stongly feel that we were meant to be straight and for whatever reason some end up gay. I love everyone the same and appriciate the color they bring to life. I think that gay people are beautiful, sweet, fun loving normal people who took an abnormality that was placed on them for whatever reason and created a life with it. Those in my life who are gay I can't imagine any other way.
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[It makes more sense that we were meant to be straight.]
That word "meant" is a nasty bugger. It carries with it the implication of INTENT.
If you were to rephrase that as, "It makes more sense that being straight causes our genes to proliferate," then I would agree.
[I think that the penis is the perfect shape for the vagina.]
Then why do men have such strong nerve endings in their anus? Why is the prostate located so close to the rectal wall? Why is a woman's clitoris located to where it can be stimulated by the tongue or fingers?
[I'm somewhat torn, but I more [strongly] feel that we were meant to be straight and for whatever reason some end up gay.]
[I also [believe] that those I love who are homosexual are that way because they were meant to be.]
There's that word again, "meant." -
@ voo doo
I meant "meant" so thats just that honey. And from a woman's perspective (who has some wild times in college) the vagina is located in a much more convenient place for the penis. And if that weren't true then why do lesians use strap ons...because penis feels better. And why do gay relationships seem to always have a "top" and a "bottom", one guy is always the "woman" right? That's because relationships are supposed to have men and women, even if it's two men or two women. -
Not that I'm an expert, but there are also "flexibles." I get your point.
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I think there are strong nerve endings in the anus so we go for a poo when we are meant to and don't see it as a chore. The womans clitoris is definitely in the wrong place it should be about two inches inside so everyone has a chance to "Hit the jackpot" so to speak.
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@ voo doo
Even so, at any given time there is a masculine presense and a feminine presense...that says a lot if u ask me. -
@aningeniousname: If there were an intent behind the design, why would the clitoris be placed on the outside?
[@ voo doo
Even so, at any given time there is a masculine presense and a feminine presense...that says a lot if u ask me.]
I can't account for that, as I've only talked to three gay men on friendly terms (possibly four, if my suspicions were correct). Also, "presence." -
alas I am a horrible speller...especially when I'm trying to shove a cookie down my throat with one had and chug hot chocolate.
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not all homosexual couples fall into the stereotypical male/female roles. A good friend of mine is a very feminin woman who is gay,and her partner is the same. Neither of them are playing the 'male' role in the relationship.
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@ drowsey
all due respect honey, but are u present when they make love? -
nope, never been invited. But now you're assuming there are certain male/female things during sexual intercourse. And not all lesbians use a strap on.
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My friend L----- (whom I've lost contact with and whose name I don't like to use without her permission) says she prefers to use her tongue. But that's TMI.
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I didn't say "all" lesbian's use strap on. But at one point or another, I'm sure they put something up there...u can't live off of clitoral orgasms forever.
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Maybe you can't but some women can. I've had many discussions about this with them, since I prefer men. It's been very enlightening.
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[I didn't say "all" lesbian's use strap on. But at one point or another, I'm sure they put something up there...u can't live off of clitoral orgasms forever.]
Is it possible to hit the G-spot with your tongue? I say we test this... FOR SCIENCE!
Any volunteers? -
Thats fine. Those women don't deserve penis.
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The G-spot is located right under your belly button...if ur tongue is that long I'll volunteer.
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@ Voodoo, That's one of the mysteries of life my friend.
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[The G-spot is located right under your belly button...if ur tongue is that long I'll volunteer.]
Then I'll just have to maintain scientific rigor. >:3
Though, based on that statement, it would require less lab experimenting and more polling.
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I'm gettin horny now.
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at work...will click later
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It's worksafe.
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Nope, tried it..."ACCESS DENIED"
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Oh, you have a proxy at your work? LAME.
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I know...thats why I binge on cookies up in this btch.
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Cyanide and Happiness just had a comic on appropriate places to use the phrase "up in this bitch" a week or so ago.
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Was I within those specific guide lines? ((please say yes))
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If it doesn't load, check it when you get home.
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From the Great George Carlin..."wouldn't it be great to be bi-sexual? Wanting to nail everyone you meet? You might as well walk around with the white pages under your arm."-
LMAO....
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On the whole penis fitting into the vagina thing...
Homosexuality isn't only about sex. It's about love. Just like heterosexuality. Sex is just a bonus.-
Yes, I agree with that. Being in love includes more than just the sexual act.
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I'm 24....i just need the sex. I get hugs from my Grandma.
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I'm surprised I overlooked that point.
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yeah, but sex is in the top freakin' two!!!!!
:-)-
Ahhh, RT a man after my own heart...if u weren't married...
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Thank you for the flirting, but you are right, I am married...and my wife agrees with me...it's in the top two!!! (How do you think we got three kids?)
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Sex keeps it nice and healthy. I always say if there is a problem with your relationship, get naked, grab some peanut butter and work it out.
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LOL...
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[(How do you think we got three kids?)]
You mugged the stork? -
I'll shoot that stork if he ever comes around again, I'll tell you that.
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Well this discussion has certainly taken some interesting turns.
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Yea, but its back to work for me...:(
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Oh sure, stir the pot and then go back to work lol.
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I think most of the participants learned something. In my case, I learned that I'm a prick who tries to give other discussion participants too much leeway and overlooks obvious rebuttals in the process.
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i am SO glad i closed this thread and played video games for a while.
