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Do you agree that meat is murder?
Posted by DealingBlog • 6/13/09 • Subscribe to this Discussion [RSS] • Report This Topic
Topics: diet, ethics, intent, meat eating, nutrition, philosophy, vegetarianism
Since obtaining meat means killing a sentient being, does meat equal murder?
Should the concept of "murder" be limited only to criminal (as opposed to accidental) killing of PEOPLE?
What about INTENT? If the intent is to kill an animal for sustenance does this intent differ from the intent to merely kill?
User Comments
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Yes, but so are vegetables. We have no way of knowing if carrots feel pain by being torn out of the ground.
I'm kidding. The problem is the cycle of life does require the consumption of other living things; can we do this more humanely? Certainly. We have been endowed with ethical concepts, we should use them.-
Kidding aside, wasn't there a study that showed that plants' water transport rates (the closest analogy to a pulse in animals) spiked when they were subjected to certain stimuli?
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so we shouldn't eat to avoid murdering plants and animals?
Hahaha, lolz! -
@DealingBlog
It has been proven that trees send each other chemical signals, which could be construed as communication:
sustainablog.org/2008/09/20/trees-emit-chemical-to-communicate-danger/ -
"I have no doubt but that cold is the source of more sufferance to all animal nature than hunger, thirst, sickness, & all the other pains of life & of death itself put together... & even the vegetable kingdom! for that too has life, and where there is life there may be sensation." -- Thomas Jefferson
oh, wait... this isn't the "founding father's quotes" thread... -
@greencurmudgeon wow, thanks for the link. Interesting.
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It is murder, but does that make it bad?
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murder that tastes good, i guess.
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Murder and oppression marinated in 11 herbs and spices?
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i actually stuff mine, yummm!
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How do you define what is sentient? -
When I saw the poster "Save the Whales" I couldn't resist making my own copy and adding the text line: "Who Speaks for Plankton?"-
Good one. Exactly. Millions of animals lose their lives in the vegetable farming process. Who speaks for the bunnies crushed by wheat threshers or earthworms torn up by plows ... melodramaticus ad infitum...
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Yes it is murder, but it tastes so damn good it's almost hard to care.
I am planning on becoming a vegetarian once I am in charge of buying my own food, my mother won't let me become one as it means she'd have to buy different food for me. -
We are omnivorous creatures and part of the food chain. What I think is more wrong is the way modern factory farming turns animals into products using horrific practices such as feeding animals their own waste products, feeding herbivore animals rendered meat proteins (leading to such diseases as Mad Cow) mixed with corn which ends up short circuiting their natural digestive systems and subsequently their natural immune systems. This leads to the growth of E-coli and salmonella. The abuse of antibiotics on livestock should worry everyone because all it takes is one antibiotic resistant strain of infection to mutate and jump species into human beings.-
The use of factory farming may also be responsible for the outbreak of swine flu.
I did some research on this:
www.whirledpeas.eu/2009/04/28/of-swine-and-swine-flu/ -
Agreed!
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I was shocked to learn that a lot of poultry in the US is raised on a diet laced with CIPRO--the antibiotic.
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I read about this as well, but the FDA squashed all speculation that it was factory farming practices that led to the swine flu outbreak.
Can you imagine if the next bird flu outbreak originated on US chicken farms? How much spin would be required to squash that story.
Livestock antibiotic abuse is the single largest health threat that is being ignored today.
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Murder is a legal definition of the circumstances surrounding killing. Until killing an animal for food is defined legally as murder, then it is not. Besides, we are omnivores and our bodies require animal foods to function properly.
There are no plant sources of complete proteins. To obtain complete proteins we must either eat animal-based foods or very carefully combine specific vegetable foods...at each meal...to create a complete protein from complementary vegetables.
There is no plant source of vitamin B12, an essential vitamin for brain function and health in the adult, and critical for brain development in the foetus and child. A woman who does not eat foods containing B12 must supplement or risk brain dysfunction in herself and inadequate brain development in her foetus or nursing child.
Vegetable sources of iron are not as readily absorbed by our bodies as meat sources. Anemia in young vegetarian women is alarmingly common.
We are omnivores...our nutritional requirements prove that. We evolved with a need to eat foods from animal sources. It is as essential to our health as oxygen. -
Meat is murder.
Tasty, tasty murder.-
that's what she said
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@ friday13 i just realised, everytime you post something, you leave a huge gap between your first sentence and your last. Is that because you have a faulty keyboard or because of mental limitations? -
Should I be offended?
The space is intentional, of course.
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Humans are actually natural vegetarians. It's not just a meat is murder thing. It's more of a long term health and quality of life thing. If you want to find out more then read The China Study by Dr. T. Colin Campbell.
rxvette.blogspot.com-
This is a dangerous untruth.
Vitamin B12, essential for brain health in the adult and for brain development in the foetus and young child, is only available from ANIMAL sources.
If we were natural vegetarians, we would not need this vitamin for proper development and sustained health, we would need only what we could get from vegetable sources. -
@Sweetviolet: I'm no nutritionist, and maybe you're right. But take someone like Bernard Shaw. He was a vegetarian most of his life, lived into his 90s, and certainly always had a very acute, active mind. -
@sweetviolet isn't B12 also sourced from nutritional yeast? Not exactly an animal...
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No. I work as a free-lance researcher for a dietitian and have been doing so for more than 2 years. I spend a LOT of time reading nutritional information, including researching the answers to questions she gets from a couple of magazines she writes for.
B12 is ONLY available from animal sources. You can get it from eggs and cheese, but they have cholesterol implications beyond that of meat.
If Shaw ate dairy, he got his B12. However, if he failed to properly combine his amino acids, he did not get complete proteins, which could have other health implications, ones that can be devastating in children. -
Sweetviolet... I am fully aware of the Vitamin B12 thing. That is the only thing that I've read in the research that we can't get naturally from a plant source. But I'd rather take a multivitamin in it with 5 or 6 mcg of B12 or drink Vitamin B12 enriched Soy or Rice milk than continue to eat animal based foods which cause diabetes, cancer, heart attacks, strokes, osteoporosis, etc. You might want to do a little more research before you write off the vegetarian/vegan diet based on one simple lack of one vitamin that you can obtain through other sources beyond animal based foods. Have you actually read The China Study? Or maybe you'd like to check out these articles:
www.vegetariantimes.com/2007/pdf/vegetarian_starter_kit.pdf
www.huffingtonpost.com/kathy-freston/shattering-the-meat-myth_b_214390.html
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I think having to eat is part of the tragedy of life, a law of nature, and must simply be accepted. As others have pointed out there are more or less humane ways to satisfy one's appetites. Some religions, before they eat or sacrifice an animal, say a prayer, a blessing for it, acknowledging that they are murdering an innocent creature but, in effect, have little choice.
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my religion does that but then again, i don't wanna shove it down ur throat, lol!
we actually mourn for the animal (cuz their little soul is going to heaven and we all know heaven is no fun) -
wow, that's going to make mowing the lawn take a lot longer... or is that just amputation? o_0
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Any person who say'd meat is murder should have a house full of roaches and other bugs. If it's wrong to kill a cow why is it not wrong to kill insects? I've never obtained a real reason for this from the meat is murder crew. What makes the value of one living thing greater than that of another?-
@freaksmack: I wouldn't say wrong, but maybe sad. I think it is sad that killing is part of the nature of things, including the killing of insects, but so be it.
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I was a vegetarian for four years. Too be honest, you could say that killing animals for food is just a natural part of nature's cycle. Of course, it could also be argued that the human race should be above that at this stage. The main thing is, if we are to continue killing animals, it should be done so humanely. I'm not a fan of bloodsports by any means, but hunting is probably generally a less painful process for animals than the killing floor of a slaughterhouse.-
It's more climate friendly as well
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Meat is tasty! Heck I ate a 400gram steak yesterday and it was godly. I would not be able to live without meat.
So if you don't want to eat meat, then yay. More for me.
In all seriousness though, there's such a thing as the circle of life. You're not going to tell a lion he has to eat plants so why would you tell a creature that eats both plants and meat to stop eating meat? Doesn't make sense to me. We've been eating meat since the dawn of time.
And as far as I know, plants are alive too. Don't you think they have feeling? They get ripped apart in a machine while it's still alive. Vegetables are plants too. So just because it doesn't have cute eyes to stare at you with, you don't feel as bad about eating it? Little hypocritical don't you think?-
I see where you're coming from. It does seem a TAD arrogant for people to assume that just because they evolved consciousness that they should be ABOVE NATURE. We're still animals. We just couch it in a lot of justification, guilt, law, and other BS but bottomline... we're still animals at our core.
The question then becomes--where do we draw the line between consciousness-spawned issues like justice, freedom, respect for all, etc and raw animal nature? The former produced our highest ideals, the latter produced superstition, intolerance, imperialist aggression, "scientific racism" and the scummier side of humanity which make us feel guilty and squirmy now. Where's the line between transcendence and arrogance?
Or is looking for that "line" an exercise in futility since its just a product of a Western educated mind steeped in bankrupt Platonic habits of reducing everything to black and white or binary opposites? -
I like my raw animal nature, actually. We have rules and laws because we need them to prevent shit from getting out of control. But there are also a lot of morals currently that are holding us back a lot. Sometimes you see someone so stupid you just want to shoot them and make the world a better place, but you can't. I mean, if someone had done that to Bush before he became president it would have saved a shitload of trouble.
But I don't really understand why you're diverting the subject away from meat and murder, so let me put it this way. You being able to eat vegies on a daily basis is a result of human science. Having figured out how to grow crops ect. Me being able to eat meat is cold hard instinct. Humans have always had the ability to kill an animal, there's nothing new about that. So sure we could say 'we don't have to anymore' but then the question would become 'why wouldn't we?'
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LOLOLOLOL ... no.
If that's the case, then the ENTIRE human race, since the beginning of time have been murderers.-
Your avatar is creeping me out
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No, meat is apart of life.
Try watching the animal planet or Discovery channel to see how the food chain really works.
But I do not like how animals are treated in our so-called modern practices.
Every living thing should be able to live with some dignity in life and death. -
Meat IS murder, but a lesser form of murder. Put an end to the debate of whether or not we are natural vegetarians. If you ever took a physical Anthropology course you'd know Homo Sapiens pretty much became Homo Sapiens by eating meat. This meat consumption lead to the extra fat required to run this big brain we have. We can get away with a vegetarian diet now only after we used these big brains to figure ways to get all the nutrients without eating an animal.
I generally don't feel guilt over eating poultry or fish, animals that don't understand or feel much of anything except basic biological impulses. However, I do limit my red meat to once a weak and only rarely (a pun!) eat pig.
I wish insects tasted good as I would love to take out a bunch of those disgusting pests.
Personally, I feel that with all the suffering humans on the planet it's a bit of a naive or backwards idea to worry about animals.-
There is a difference between murder and killing.
For a killing to be murder, it must be legally defined as such. All murder is killing, but not all killing is murder.
I know of no place in which killing an animal is legally defined as murder. Do you? -
Murder is a man made up thing. Along the way it became a 'bad' thing to kill something, instead of it being a way to survive or population control.
But if people want to go vegie then go them. But as long as there are cows, knives, grills and fire, I will eat my steak. Even if I have to slaughter the damn animal myself.
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If meat is murder and wrong, then I don't want to be right.-
It feels so right, it can't be wrong;)
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Left in the wild, most animals are in the food chain. not that I promote eating a lot of meat. -
Meat? A Murder? Oh Yes. Ofcourse. A SIN, Indeed!
But, Dear Fellow Sinners, We All Live Amongst The Darkest Blend Of SIN And ZEN. And The Great Surrounding Wall Is SO Big And SO Thick That Even The Loud Beats Of The Large Drum Cannot, Sometimes, Reach It's Zenith. So Let Us All Carry The Cross Of Our Own Sins, Whole Night Long, Shamelessly, And Forgive Ourselves, Only To Become A Christ In The Morning. Or, A Buddha, May Be...!-
...Huh!...
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Eating a diet that ismeat intensive could be viewed as suicide 0_o
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balance is key
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killing for meat is fine
killing for fun is wrong
killing for fur or leather is fine, as long as you eat it too -
I ate a murdered fish tonight. Gorton's.
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mmm....
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swordfish is delicious
too bad it's so expensive, i'm stuck with cod and halibut -
I have a crab stuffed sole in my freezer.
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No I don't believe it is murder - if a hungry lion came along and ate me would that be considered murder?
Its called survival of the fittest - eat or be eaten -
No, because you have to distinguish between animals and human beings. The concept of "murder" only applies to human beings. This doesn't justify in any way cruelty to animals. -
No, it's not murder.
If it is possible for an animal to be murdered it would be by way killing to kill void of any reason or need for food or clothing, etc...
Killing an animal for food or eating a plant is no more murder than stepping on a bug without realizing it. -
hmmm, animals kill each other for food .. does that make them murderers as well? I'm not taking a negative stance here but it seems that this point has been overlooked. -
Meat isn't murder. Carrot Juice is Murder.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmK0bZl4ILM
(according to Arrogant Worms)
// luv the signs in that video //
"Give Peas A Chance" -
Yesterday I walked into the local butcher shop to pick up some meat. When I smelled the delicious meat scent that's always present there I realized; I wouldn't turn vegan for all the money in the world. I could not live without meat. I'd crave it like a crack whore craves her crack.
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