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Do you have to believe in the bible, to believe in God?
Posted by egenie • 6/14/09 • Subscribe to this Discussion [RSS] • Report This Topic
Topics: Bible
I don't feel it, but most people do.
User Comments
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It is strange to me that the two have to go together.
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In the bible it says that faith comes by hearing (reading also) and the message is heard through the word (the bible) of Jesus Christ. -
Most religions have their own holy book, but they all believe in a single God.
So, the answer is definitely no.-
God in the bible seems cruel, where as the God I feel in my heart is kind.
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single god? are you kidding?
have you ever met a hindu -
That's why I wrote "most" and not "all" religions.
My point was that holy book or no holy book, there's still that belief in a God to most people. -
your sentence is badly structured, look at it like this
"Most religions have their own holy book,"
"they (religions) all believe in a single God." -
From my point of view, the second half of the sentence was in reference to the first half.
"Most religions have their own holy book,"
"they (religions with their own holy book) all believe in a single God."
No bad structure there. It was just a misunderstanding that even I would have misinterpreted upon first glance.
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hindu seems more like a cult, a way to live, but I don't know much about it.
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That is true. I think that you have to believe what is in you heart, no matter what other people believe.
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Hindu seems more like a cult. That makes me laugh!
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it's been edited beyond recognition-
The fact is that the Bible has not been rewritten. Take the New Testament, for example. The disciples of Jesus wrote the New Testament in Greek and though we do not have the original documents, we do have around 6,000 copies of the Greek manuscripts that were made very close to the time of the originals. These various manuscripts, or copies, agree with each other to almost 100 percent accuracy. Statistically, the New Testament is 99.5% textually pure. That means that there is only 1/2 of 1% of of all the copies that do not agree with each other perfectly. But, if you take that 1/2 of 1% and examine it, you find that the majority of the "problems" are nothing more than spelling errors and very minor word alterations. For example, instead of saying Jesus, a variation might be "Jesus Christ." So the actual amount of textual variation of any concern is extremely low. Therefore, we can say that we have a remarkably accurate compilation of the original documents.
www.carm.org/questions/about-bible/hasnt-bible-been-rewritten-so-many-times... -
That's just an excerpt from one source. If you took the time to really research, you might find a different perspective.
And I don't mean that sarcastically. -
ofcourse it has ... every time someone translated it was rewritten... not to mention the fact that bible was written in bits and pieces some written 100s of years after the fact
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So when that we translate the Bible, we do not translate from a translation of a translation of a translation. We translate from the original language into our language. It is a one step process and not a series of steps that can lead to corruption. It is one translation step from the original to the English or to whatever language a person needs to read it in. So we translate into Spanish from the same Greek and Hebrew manuscripts. Likewise we translate into the German from those same Greek and Hebrew manuscripts as well. This is how it is done for each and every language we translate the Bible into. We do not translate from the original languages to the English, to the Spanish, and then to the German. It is from the original languages to the English, or into the Spanish, or into the German. Therefore, the translations are very accurate and trustworthy in regards to what the Bible originally said.
www.carm.org/questions/about-bible/hasnt-bible-been-rewritten-so-many-times... -
thats hardly how it worked in fact at the time the the bible was being written the only way for a book to be written was by hand.
The only way for that kind of knowledge to move was from monastery to monastery across europe as monks were often the people with the amount of time required to write a book and the literacy needed
so though it was translated to greek and roman it then had to be rewritten in to other languages along the way. and as such the interpretation was different depending on the person who was translating
this is not taking into account the amount of illiteracy around the world. the majority of people had to believe the interpretations of the monks rather that having their own opinion. and with that comes a second hand interpreation which would have been passed down and changed the interpreations as generations passed -
Wonder what was here before I deleted it? LOL
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i have no idea ... went to dinner
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I tried to post a chart, but it didn't come out right.
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what did it have on it?
was it an image?
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I just hope with my heart that the bible is not true. I do not want to meet the God spoke of in the bible.
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me, being an atheist, more so..
www.youtube.com/watch?v=urlTBBKTO68 -
@egenie,
We have to be careful when we start inventing our own god to fit him into our liking.
I'm not telling you what to believe, as though I could. But if you're diligently searching for truth, our 'feelings' are not based on reality. They're fickle. And that's all they are, just our feelings. -
People want God to be all warm and fuzzy. They don't like to know that while He is a God of mercy, He is also a God of judgment.
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the God from the Old Testament can hardly be called a God of Mercy
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Why do you think the human race deserves mercy? We murder, rape, abuse children, pillage, steal, lie, cheat: we bring about wars and destroy the earth, all the while shaking our fists in the face of God and rebelling against Him. We, the created ones, thinking we know better than the Creator. We should be down on our knees in utmost gratitude that He hasn't stepped on us all and crushed us like a bunch of squirming roaches on a kitchen floor.
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Why do you think the human race deserves mercy?
you were the one who talked about a God of mercy, right?
We murder, rape, abuse children, pillage, steal, we bring about wars and destroy the earth
show no mercy to them.. but the innocent? -
I said that He is a God of mercy and a God of 'Judgment'. We want the mercy, but we don't want the judgment.
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Who is innocent?
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Who is innocent?
how about the first born in egypt?
how about all the small children and animals that drowned in the flood? Noah's family and his chosen ones apart
how about the kids in sodom and gomorrah?
note: I am only referring to acts from bible for argument's sake and leave out the real world
where is the mercy? what is the judgment? -
It's funny, we don't think about this 'innocence' when we pull a baby out of his mother's womb by the arms and legs (leaving the head inside to make sure we don't think it's a human), then open up his head and suck his brains out. (partial birth abortion)
I'll be back.... -
I am hoping that reply is not all you give.. and with due respect to your age, I hope that was not an attempt at stalling
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No, that reply just came quickly to mind. I assure you I'm not stalling. I will be back (the good Lord willing ;)).
Patience, dear sir.
I messed up that winky again. Where is siralmo when I need him? -
@harsha
The story of Noah and the flood was lifted from Sumeria. It's an ancient Sumerian legend found in The Epic of Gilgamesh. It was orally transmitted and made it into the Tanakh. The Epic of Gilgamesh is, perhaps, the oldest written story on Earth. It comes to us from Ancient Sumeria, and was originally written on 12 clay tablets in cunieform script. It is about the adventures of the historical King of Uruk (somewhere between 2750 and 2500 BCE). www.ancienttexts.org/library/mesopotamian/gilgamesh/
Please understand that early christians, who were called followers of The Way deliberately chose to re-nterpret the Old Testament in a manner required to uphold the doctrine and dogma that depicts Jesus as God. The Old Testament books do not incorporate all of the Judaic spiritual teachings and books. What was left behind when some were adopted was over 600 rabbinical teachings that illuminate meaning. Christians the Tanakh from the Jews, sans the rabbinical teachings. They cherry pick prophetic and messianic passages from it. Then they put their own spin on it because if they didn't they would have only the New Testament books to base their religion upon.
Also when it comes to borrowing there is absolutely no doubt among bible scholars that the New testament book containing John's so-called Book of Relevations was borrowed from the Jews and the contents were in existence long before John could have been born.
When we study this compilation of books we come to know the fantasy of being descended from the house of David. That was only introduced into the story of Jesus' life decades after the events occurred, most likely after anyone who actually witnessed the events was dead. -
@timethief.. I very well understand what you say..
its not just Christians, but people of every faith nitpick stuff from their scripture to suit their agenda..
that doesn't mean, we shouldn't stop pointing out their flaws, no matter how many times, for 2 reasons
1) it makes people who are on the fence something to think about when they read, though they are not part of the debate
2) I am a bit bored at the moment and I don't mind wasting time.. even if the other side keep spinning new spins(@rebecca don't take this personally.. I am talking about all christians) -
@harsha
If I had the time and inclination to do so I could go through book by book and point out where the edits and mis-interpretations are found, who uncovered them and when, by simply relying on my memory and my Bible College education, but I don't care to do so.
IMHO anyone who wishes to continue romancing a book of books (anthology) is not likely to become aware of their egocentricities and clean them up, and that's what's important to us as individuals and as members of collectives and communities within societies.
One one hand, anyone can learn how to spout scripture at the drop of a hat. I was compelled to do so as a child, hence, I can quote from 4 different versions, and I can do so in three different languages. So what?
On the other, IMHO the results of such recitations will not be likely to produce a compassionate, loving and ethical person, with valuable contributions to make to achieving peace and harmony with their neighbors. The results are a close mindedness, rather than openmindedness. Hence, we continue to witness the arrogant "believer" who will continue to defend their religion to the death by displaying egocentricity after egocentricity after egocentricity.
Such displays do not endear one to others because they set one apart and separate from the majority of all members of the human race. That's why I have come to believe that there is no value in reciting scriptures and romancing anthologies.
There is value in learning the following teachings, derived from Buddhist philosophy and evidenced in the teachings attributed to Jesus, and even greater value in applying them to our lives, because they result in unity:
* dana = authentic generosity (charitable giving of the self and sharing of possessions, donation)
* metta = selfless love and good will toward all beings (loving kindness)
* karuna = compassion (respect, acceptance, forgiveness)
* mudita = altruistic joy filled with peace and contentment (appreciative joy at the success and good fortune of others)
* sila = abstaining from physical and vocal actions that cause harm to oneself and others
* uppekka = equanimity (an inclusive state of open mind free of attachment, aversion, bigotry, craving, ignorance and intolerance) -
@dsriharsha
Until you understand that God is perfect in righteousness, justice, and purity, you'll never accept any answer given to you about why God judged whole cities and a civilization, including babies and children. Do I have an easy time accepting it? No. I am a mother and think there is nothing more precious than a little baby.
But God is not only a God of love, he is a Holy God and a God of righteousness. It is inevitable that sin and rebellion will be judged when there is no repentance.
All of the groups you mentioned in your posts that were judged were idolatrous, wicked beyond measure, and had completely rebelled against God. They were not repentant. The children would have likely grown up to be the same.
God knows everything. He can see the future.
You could count it merciful that He took the babies and children before they reached the age of accountability, as many Christians believe that babies and children who die before that age will go to be in heaven with God.
We just don't get the purity of God and our own sinfulness. The Bible says that we not only deserve physical death, but eternal punishment without the atonement of Jesus Christ's shed blood on the cross.
Now, I'm not going to attempt to answer any more questions on this thread since this is really just a typical online debate, rather than someone sincerely seeking for answers concerning God and salvation.
If I'm wrong, dsriharsha, and you're really wanting to understand, you can shoutbox me. -
haha that was a long read... for anyone interested tinyurl.com/l79ejc
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Until you understand that God is perfect in righteousness, justice, and purity, you'll never accept any answer given to you about why God judged whole cities and a civilization, including babies and children.
His acts point to the contrary
The children would have likely grown up to be the same.
God knows everything. He can see the future.
So much for free will.
You could count it merciful that He took the babies and children before they reached the age of accountability, as many Christians believe that babies and children who die before that age will go to be in heaven with God.
You honestly believe in what you just wrote?
Then you must be counting Rameses and Herod amongst God's angels doing his work? Is that why the Christians whole heartedly support Abortion?
Now, I'm not going to attempt to answer any more questions on this thread since this is really just a typical online debate, rather than someone sincerely seeking for answers concerning God and salvation.
That is alright.. I will ask you no more questions. I wouldn't seek the answers from an apologetic who condones mass murders of innocents anyway..
If I'm wrong, dsriharsha, and you're really wanting to understand, you can shoutbox me.
Maybe, I will try later..
Good day to you. -
Let's get something clear right now. young man. I do NOT condone mass murders of innocents. You are out of line.
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"You could count it merciful that He took the babies and children before they reached the age of accountability, as many Christians believe that babies and children who die before that age will go to be in heaven with God."
You typed this?
and yeah.. maybe my tone was getting out of line.. I apologize -
You have asked me to do the inexplicable; explain the actions of God.
God's Ways are Not Our Ways
1. He is infinite--we are finite.
2. He knows the end from the beginning while we see just a short part of the now.
3. He knows the whys, while we grasp for wisdom.
And, yes, if those children were going to grow up to rebel and reject the God who created them, and end up cast away into hell, it was merciful that God took them while they were still under the age of accountability.
But no human being has the right to make that decision. And abortion, most especially partial birth abortion, is a great evil. -
That was cool, siralmo. I just clicked your link. I've read some of those articles before.
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Somehow I posted this twice.
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its when you double or triple click the "add comment" button too quickly
that graph you had above was that an image?
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Becca,baby doll,u know what I've learned here. You don't have to defend your belifs. If people wanna knock the bible,or god. Just let them have their say. It makes them feel like they're convincing people of somethig.-
I know, Holly.
I just like to put a word in now and then. -
hardly, though i can ramble about the many things i beleive, i don't actually think that anyone listens to what i say
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And isn't it amazing, siralmo, how the Bible (Old and New Testament) all ties together with one central theme; Jesus Christ.
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this is going to come off a little rude but i'm going to say that the bible to me is not particularly amazing because of jesus, jesus is the equivalent of sherlock homes in my mind ... a great character from a couple of thick books ... more so amazing as to how so many people have defined their life by that book.
equivalent in my mind people taking sherlock holmes to be the messiah and son of god who roamed the earth solving mysteries -
Not rude, siralmo, just your views, as I'm sharing mine.
That's the whole crux of it, though. (is 'crux' a word, lol?) 'Who do you say that Jesus is?' (that's rhetorical)
Matthew 16
15He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
16And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. -
i think crux is a real word
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Definitely not... I'm on the same journey concerning religion I discovered Taoism and am very interested in the whole philosophy.I think the goal is to believe in yourself and to maybe do research I think everyone needs some form of spirituality in their lives no matter the religion.-
what if you are not a spiritual person? or have any spirituality?
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@tlingitdreamer: Taoism. Cool! -
I also find taoism very interesting and enlightening. I've been interested in it for a few years now.
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I find this question to be a strange one. It doesn't matter what anyone else thinks. What do YOU think?
And I don't mean that in a nasty way. Promise. -
Question: Do you have to believe in the bible, to believe in God?
Answer: No. When someone asks "do you believe in God" It implies that they are asking about one specific god, which is usually characteristic of a monotheistic religion. When you answer "yes I believe in God" you also imply that you believe in one specific god.
Well, the fact remains that many people since the beginning of time have created personaified gods of all kinds to explain the inexplicable and still do today. Moreover, as there is neither empirical evidence to prove or disprove the existence of a singular god, a three-in-one God, or multiple gods, and as these kinds of questions only prompt those with their paper popes to quote from them, it seems to me that the whole exercise of asking such questions is more likely to create ill will than good will.
IMHO what's being overlooked is that many people do claim to have an experience of what they deem to be "god" that does not dovetail with the god or gods constructs put forth by any mainstream religions.
I have been twice declared dead and revived. I was not under the influence of any drug whatsoever on either occasion. Neither experience had an effect on me "religious wise".
I believe in freedom from religion. That means that I wish to be free from enduring the kind of abuse grounded in ignorance, fear, guilt that characterized my upbringing and college education as a Christian evangelical fundamentalist.
A belief is not an idea held by the mind; it is an idea that holds the mind. We don't see things as they are; we see things as we are.
What I do experience is that when I meditate and all the things associated with my "self" like greed, anger, hate, etc. dissolve is that there is no self; there is no distinct being that is separate from the universal stream of pure consciousness -- quiet joy, peace, love ie. god.
And that's what I experienced on two occasions when I was technically thought to be dead. I experienced unity via the universal stream of pure consciousness with all there is. I also knew that this current life of mine in this body and on this earthly plane was not finished, and that I have lived previous lives and would live many more lives, until I become fully enlightened and one in love and compassion with god (the universal stream of pure consciousness) in all planes of existence.
Neither male nor female, neither good nor bad, neither light nor darkness but containing all there is and situate everywhere: the universal stream of consciousness flowing through all is god. Hence, god is found in everyone and in everything; god just keeps on is-ing.
>ul>Open mindedness and Egocentricity are diametrically opposed
We will probably all agree that open mindedness is a virtue.
John Sanford and George Lough provide this definition of it's opposite egocentricity: Egocentricity may be defined as a state in which a person is concerned with his own defense and the fulfillment of his own ambitions, which ambition, on close scrutiny, turn out to be closely tied to his defenses.”
The import of this is simple. A man is inducted into a religion from birth or at any point in his lifetime. Through the practice of that religion, he is told he can reach to God. He is told that there are certain things he must do to maintain his acceptance as a follower. He might be indoctrinated, he might not be. But now he has a defense and an ambition.
His defense consists of his religion, that this is authentic manner to get to God, because the authenticity of the claim is narrated through tales and books he believes in. his ambition is to become a true follower of that religion, to leave nothing left in becoming an acclaimed follower of his God. And so, he is concerned (this concern varies in people) with that defense and the fulfillment of that ambition.
The human mind is naturally prone to the following egocentric tendencies:
* egocentric memory (the natural tendency to “forget” evidence and information which does not support our thinking and to “remember” evidence and information which does)
* egocentric myopia (the natural tendency to think absolutistically within an overly narrow point of view)
* egocentric infallibility (the natural tendency to think that our beliefs are true because we believe them)
* egocentric righteousness (the natural tendency to feel superior in the light of our confidence that we are in the possession of THE TRUTH)
* egocentric hypocrisy (the natural tendency to ignore flagrant inconsistencies between what we profess to believe and the actual beliefs our behavior imply, or inconsistencies between the standards to which we hold ourselves and those to which we expect others to adhere)
* egocentric oversimplification (the natural tendency to ignore real and important complexities in the world in favor of simplistic notions when consideration of those complexities would require us to modify our beliefs or values)
* egocentric blindness (the natural tendency not to notice facts or evidence which contradict our favored beliefs or values)
* egocentric immediacy (the natural tendency to over-generalize immediate feelings and experiences–so that when one event in our life is highly favorable or unfavorable, all of life seems favorable or unfavorable as well)
* egocentric absurdity (the natural tendency to fail to notice thinking which has “absurd” consequences, when noticing them would force us to rethink our position)
Feelings that Accompany Egocentrism
Essential Idea: When egocentric thinking is successful in getting what it wants, positive feelings accompany it. But when egocentric thinking is not able to achieve its purposes, negative feelings result.
These are some of the many feelings that might accompany egocentric thinking. They often occur when egocentric thinking is “unsuccessful.”
* Defensiveness
* Arrogance
* Apathy
* Alienation
* Resentment
* Depression
* Anger
* Irritability
* Indifference
I’m struggling every day to detect, correct and conquer my own egocentric thoughts, words and actions, so I can make a direct contribution to peace and harmony in my own life and in the world. How about you?-
I believe this is what some religious folks are trying to do too.
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@boytrotters
I’m struggling every day to detect, correct and conquer my own egocentric thoughts, words and actions, so I can make a direct contribution to peace and harmony in my own life and in the world. How about you?
I do too and that's why I asked.
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The Old Testament does not describe God, but rather a counterfeit -
You might find this site as interesting reading. www.exminister.org/index.html
Also....http://www.thelostbooks.com/list.htm
AND: The answer to your question is no.......-
those links didn't really have any effect on me at all, though i would likt say that the second link reinforces my statement about the accuracy of the bible you read today
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To understand the very nature of the Bible you need to focus on the time in which it was written and who by.
The concept of God varies between beliefs yet a God is ultimately omnipotent and not bound by human concepts.
The Bible was written by a prehistoric level of understanding - God would not have needed 6 days to create the heavens and the Earth as an omnipotent being would not be bound by the laws of time. In fact, The God of most religious perspectives invented it. -
You dont have to belive in the bible to bleive in god--but you kinda have to belive in god to belive the bible...
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no way. -
The concept of God transcends any and all books.
Mere mortals write what they think God is.
God is more than that. -
Texts are scripted by humans for humans.
The most effective way to communicate with the Universe (some believe) is through the language of math.
Unfortunately my brain tripped over algebra. I have had to rely on math/physics translators every since. -
No you don't have to believe in the bible to believe in god. The bible can be seen as an allegory or story. It does not have to be believed in. -
I think one has to believe in both because bible is a book that belong to God.
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I think one has to believe in both because bible is a book that belong to God.
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The Bible is the WORD made flesh and that person is the Lord Jesus Christ Himself. The Bible is God-breathed. So you definitely have to read and believe what God has spoken through His Son and prophets in the Bible! As you read the Bible, God is speaking to you! Amen.-
Amen.
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Amen
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I cannot tell by your question so I will simply assume because of your use of the word "bible" that you are asking the question about Christianity and Christians.
In Christianity there is essential doctrine and non-essential.
There is room for disagreement on a great many things, there are some beliefs that if rejected will place a person outside of Christianity.
Examples of non-essentials would be things such as; Predestination, election, limited atonement,free will.
Examples of essentials would be Jesus is God, the resurrection of Jesus, salvation by grace.
A good saying that those Christians should keep in mind with this kind of topic is, "In essentials, unity; in non-essentials, liberty; in all things,charity." -
Jesus said... "I Am the Alpha and the Omega,
the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End."
Revelation 22:13
I Am the Alpha and the Omega...
I Am the first and the last...
I Am the beginning and the end...
I Am the maker of the heavens and the earth...
I Am the breath of all creation...
I Am the Kings of Kings...
I Am the holy lamb of God...
I Am your fountain of living water...
I Am the risen Son of God...
I Am the healer of the broken hearted...
I Am the one who bore the sins of man...
I Am the word upon your heart...
I Am the one who knew you before you were born...
I Am the one who walked on water...
I Am the one who calmed the seas...
I Am your Savior and Redeemer.
There are only four possibilities.
Jesus was either a liar, a lunatic, a legend,
or the Truth.
Jesus is our Truth... He wants to be our Lord of everything.
Will we call upon Him... to calm our seas
and allow Him to continue to transform us
in every area of our lives ?-
"I Am the maker of the heavens and the earth...
I Am the breath of all creation...
I Am the Kings of Kings..."
this would suggest that jesus is god not the son of god -
I'm not one to pimp my own stuff, I don't do the "Shameless Blog Promotion" thing.
But I think the is relevant so I thought I'd throw it out.
lbittiredlbitworn.wordpress.com/yahweh-is-the-one-god-jesus-is-the-one-god/ -
i determined that i am a non christian from that post ^^
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You weren't sure before?
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I read your post, too, rfburnhertz.
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Thx Rebecca.
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well i define my self as agnostic so i sort of fell short of the mark, and though i don't completely deny the existence of god, i also follow the idea that if there is one there could be others, even a hierarchy, and with that could come limitations, so when you say anything is possible i am a little reluctant to jump into that conclusion
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John 1
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2The same was in the beginning with God.
3All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
14And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.-
As I pointed out in another thread, the greek word 'logos' can also be interpreted as Reason. Lets see how the verse reads then...
"1In the beginning was Reason, and the Reason was with God, and the Reason was God.
2The same was in the beginning with God.
3All things were made thus; and without such was not any thing made that was made.
4And the Reason was made flesh, and dwelt within us, full of grace and truth."
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"I Am the maker of the heavens and the earth...
I Am the breath of all creation...
I Am the Kings of Kings..."
"this would suggest that jesus is god not the son of god" - Siralmo
Now... you are not too far from the truth............. -
Then Paul stood in the midst of the Areopagus and said, “Men of Athens, I perceive that in all things you are very religious; for as I was passing through and considering the objects of your worship, I even found an altar with this inscription:
TO THE UNKNOWN GOD.
Therefore, the One whom you worship without knowing, Him I proclaim to you: God, who made the world and everything in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands.
Acts 17:22-24 (NKJV)
www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=51&chapter=17&verse=22&end_verse=24&v... -
In answer to the original question. No one does not have to believe any one particular thing or book to believe in God. While there are useful scriptures in the bible one has to know that it was put together by men in power for a specific end.
Jesus did not speak English or Greek. He spoke Aramaic. The Gospels that quoted Jesus were written at best 150 years after his death. Where did they copy it from?
The teachings of Jesus had a literal meaning and an esoteric meaning. Only the literal meaning has been talked about through the centuries.
According to the 10 commandments everyone that professes to be Christian is a sinner.
According to Christians sinners go to hell.
According to the Catholic church heaven and hell are not places only states of mind since 1999.
The bible can be useful but it is not the alpha and omega of spiritual knowledge. Ultimately it has been used as a tool for control of the masses for centuries by the power elite.-
"Jesus did not speak English or Greek. He spoke Aramaic. The Gospels that quoted Jesus were written at best 150 years after his death. Where did they copy it from?"
Unfortunately that's actually inaccurate. One of the gospels was written by a disciple who was with Christ, John. Luke was written with a great deal of assistance from Paul, about 30 years after his death. I don't know about the other two.
"According to Christians sinners go to hell."
No, through faith and love in Christ they are pardoned, and receive the holy spirit. Receiving the holy spirit, their mind begins to turn away from sin, but it will never be perfected completely. It is out of Love and not fear that you do God's work, and it's a lifetime journey, not a destination.
"According to the Catholic church heaven and hell are not places only states of mind since 1999."
"Welcome to the Hotel California!" In the original text that is much less of a contradiction, as Hell is referred to as "Gehanna," the name of a garbage dump outside of Jerusalem, and it supposed to be a place of "darkness" and "eternal separation from God."
"The bible can be useful but it is not the alpha and omega of spiritual knowledge. Ultimately it has been used as a tool for control of the masses for centuries by the power elite."
If people truly understood the bible, they would probably overthrow their elites, though they would do it quietly and peacefully and without any violence. -
@reginaldcdotme
Did I miss something that the Catholics did in 1999?
@jeremyjanson
I always heard that the song Hotel California was about something different. I heard that there once was a Hotel California. It was closed down due to all the dead animals that kept showing up. After it was closed, it became Anton LeVey's First Church of Satan. And member of the Eagles attended services there. But, then again, this story is unconfirmed. But in that light, the song makes more sense.
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No, but I do believe it is (mostly) the truth.
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After or while reading the bible, you can know why we have to believe it. There's a saying that "To see is to believe" but reading the bible is "Believe then you will see". -
@jeremyjason
"Unfortunately that's actually inaccurate. One of the gospels was written by a disciple who was with Christ, John. Luke was written with a great deal of assistance from Paul, about 30 years after his death. I don't know about the other two."
At this point I don't have the reference material in front of me but historians and biblical scholars will prove me right on this one. If you have a reference that is not biblical marketing please share it with me. It would be sincerely appreciated.
"No, through faith and love in Christ they are pardoned, and receive the holy spirit. Receiving the holy spirit, their mind begins to turn away from sin, but it will never be perfected completely. It is out of Love and not fear that you do God's work, and it's a lifetime journey, not a destination."
Check your history of Christianity and the formation of the roman catholic church of which all Christianity is a decedent.Love did not change the "pagans" minds. It was the sword, torture and the death penalty for heresy that changed millions.
You missed one of my points.
In order to be Christian you sin.
Exodus 20:3 You shall have no other God before me. The very first commandment.
Did the Roman Catholic Church not make Jesus God?
Jesus is another God and therefore breaks the first commandment. Logically and through reasoning ALL Christians are sinners. The bible says so.
or could the bible be wrong?
"If people truly understood the bible, they would probably overthrow their elites, though they would do it quietly and peacefully and without any violence."
So how do you know when a person "truly understands"? Who decides?
And the elites would be overthrown in a peaceful non-violent nature? ROTFLMAO! That's not the Christian way to overthrow any people peacefully and non-violent. Check your history. Hell, Check the 6 o'clock news! LOL!
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