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Do you think when a woman dresses sexy or provocative that it means she's easy?
Posted by ToniTMTaylor • 3/05/09 • Subscribe to this Discussion [RSS] • Report This Topic
Topics: Easy, judgement, provocative clothing, sexy attire
Often times when women dress sexy or provocative, other people have a lot to say about it...
I don't believe that's it's an open invitation to judge, but people still do. I blogged about it and I was curious to see what other people thought...
User Comments
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I think that whenever a woman or a man dresses in a sexy and provocative manner, and then goes out into a public place that the motivation for doing so is to "strut their stuff" and attract attention from those who may be drawn to them. I don't have anything to say about any woman who wants to present herself as cheesecake, or for a man who wants to present himself as beefcake. Artificial, unimaginative and sexually desperate people bore me ... YAWN-
Well said! I couldn't agree more. (and if you don't mind, I'm yawning right along with you
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I agree, but I think the culture encourages woman to do it more.
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Toni....I just read your blog post, and it's so spot-on! Definitely agree with you 100%.-
Thank you for that...
I feel like it's spot on too...but of course I do! LOL -
@ToniTMTaylor
LisaNYC has said: Toni....I just read your blog post, and it's so spot-on! Definitely agree with you 100%.
I read your post and it seems to be an installment in an interesting and ongoing fiction story you are writing. www.tonitmtaylor.com/2009/03/04/wednesdays-story-creative-fiction/
I can find no clear way to connect the post to this discussion thread so I'm confused.
(1) Do you want us to discuss the post?
(2) Or do you want us to discuss the topic you posted into this thread? -
No....
It really has nothing to do with an ongoing fiction story that I'm writing. I wrote the blog and it sparked up a conversation between myself and my dad (he's a pastor) Anyway he has very specific views on dress and attire and he believes that if you dress provocatively you are basically dressing in a type of uniform...
It sparked an interesting conversation within my family...so that's why I posted the discussion..
The fiction I'm writing hasn't touched on this subject at all...
but thanks for checking out the post. -
I see how it wasn't clear. I only referred to my blog as a clear point on how I feel about dressing provocatively...
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@ToniTMTaylor
Thanks for the clarity. Given your reply, what LisaNYC has said:
"Toni....I just read your blog post, and it's so spot-on! Definitely agree with you 100%"
misled me into believing the two were directly connected, when they weren't. However, I did enjoy your writing.
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I think it depends a lot on the situation and how comfortable she is. Often you see women who are tugging their tiny skirts into place or using body language to convey that they feel self-conscious in what they are wearing. I feel sorry for those women, because they aren't strong enough to buck the trend and dress comforatbly. If the clothing is inappropriately revealing for the situation, I do tend to think that the woman in them either has such poor self-esteem that she thinks it's expected of her or she can't resist the attention that plunging necklines and low-rise pants give her.
I don't see anything wrong with dressing to look good, in any situation, but girls who get dressed to the nines (in as little as possible) and do their hair for an hour before school earn nothing but pity from me. They clearly have a lot of growing up to do, and run the risk of growing into ladies who get plastic surgery and starve themselves to jiggle their way through adulthood rather than learn how to earn respect. -
That depends on what you consider to be "Sexy" or "Provocative". A well dressed person can rock the simplest of outfits and make it both sexy and provocative without looking easy or cheap.
A poorly dressed person can take an elegant outfit and make it look like they're hooking for a living.
*shrug*-
i think everyone should wear ninja clothing.
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Me too
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Exactly what I was gonna say. Its subjective at any rate.
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The belief that a woman is "easy" or "asking for it" simply because she's dressed a certain way is a very dangerous belief....and, in the worst case scenario, after a female is raped, many sickos will blame her, insisting that she "deserved it" because of how she was dressed.
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I completely agree with the depends on the situation and how comfortable she is part. If she feels self conscious in what she's wearing, absolutely, she shouldn't be wearing it. If she's going to back-to-school night wearing a mid-drift is definitely not appropriate.
But the pity part...I don't agree...because that to me would be judgement. -
Everyone has their own opinion on what is and isn't appropriate. When a viewer's line is crossed, an eyebrow is raised and comments are made/thought. I've seen ladies/girls who I think are dressed slutty but I have never thought they actually were "easy." Because guys are visual, dressing a certain can affect his physical/emotional reaction to her.-
That is where the Ninja clothes come in to play.
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these ninja comments are cracking me up!
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What I don't like to hear is when a woman is raped and they bring up how she was dressed. That just pisses me off.
AFter all, rape is an act of violence--it's not an act of sexuality.-
I agree - and I think that the personal judgments that come up around the office watercooler are quite different from trying to blame the victim for an assault
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That's very true. But I think women are judged too much on what they wear anyway. I think women should be able to wear what they want without being judged.
The judgement extends from the watercooler to the courtroom--it's all pervasive if you ask me. -
I'm going to play devil's advocate here fora moment (in part as a response to jshaw's comment)
People do need to be aware of the impression they leave on others. And while I'd love nothing more than for everyone not look beyond the outside for that impression, we know that isn't true.
I hear more often than not about how "If you don't want people to think you're scary, stop dressing like that" "If you don't want people to think you're a boy/girl stop dressing like that".
You do, in a way create you're own reality when you choose to put on your outfit and face for the day. (That does not excuse acts of violence or outrageous reactions to appearances that have no merit whatsoever).
But you do have to wonder what people are thinking when they leave their house in the morning. If you're wearing a micro-mini skirt, thigh high boots, fishnet stockings, and a tube top complete with done up hair and makeup to the grocery store...well....you're not going ot be mistaken for Miss stay at home mom of the year.... -
I don't know, Anok--I think that's BS. If I want to wear a miniskirt and tube top in the summer, who is someone else to judge what kind of person I am? I feel that's wrong--mostly because it is a huge double standard for men and women.
Women are constantly being judged on their looks--and I would like to see that stop. The attitude that women should dress less provocatively in order to be taken more seriously (or to look like a *good girl*) is a load of crap to me.
It's all pervasive--women are constantly judged on their looks--in every aspect of life. Research has been done that shows that an attractive female defendant gets less time than an unattractive one.
On television, when you see women portrayed in positions of power, it is not enough that they are smart--they have to be beautiful as well.
Now this (of course) is a different direction than the way a woman is judged for dressing provocatively--but it's all part of the problem, if you ask me.
Now if a woman goes on a job interview dressed inappropriately, then that employer should not hire her. Just as the employer should not hire a man whose got two inches of butt crack showing. -
I agree with your Devil's advocate position, of course appearances shouldn't matter and we shouldn't be judged on what we wear but the reality is we are visual creatures and appearances matter if you dress like a street criminal people will treat you like one and if you dress like a whore people will treat you like one. You can talk till the cows come home about how wrong it is but that don't change the facts.
Clothes maketh the man. -
I'm with mtyler. I do wear a teensy-weensie miniskirt when the weather is nice because I can move easily in it and it's comfortable. Do I get honked at? Sure. Do I get whistled and howled at? Of course. But I also get that if I wear a full length skirt and a veil. What's the real difference then? As far as I'm concerned if it's too hot or cold I cover up. If the weather is good, who cares?
I have literally snubbed about 3500 guys over the last 6 years who think I'm "strutting my stuff." That's their problem, not mine. -
My point was that everyone gets judged - for a minimum of first impressions - because of how they present themselves.
If I walked into your store wearing over sized FUBU jeans, an oversized top, a backwards hat, and had gold plated teeth - your first impression would be that I was a rapper wannabe.
If I walked in with a mowhawk, facial piercings, tight jeans and Chuck's and a Ramones T shirt - you'd think I was a punk rocker.
If I walked in in a three piece suit, an attache case, and a no-nonsense hairstyle - you'd think I was a professional, maybe a lawyer.
If I walked in with a plaid shirt on, battered jeans, and work boots - probably a construction worker.
If I walked in looking like this:
You might think I was a streetwalker.
That doesn't mean any of these people are bad - it's just that they dress in a way that is associated with a particular genre, or career choice or lifestyle choice. And if a person doesn't want to be mistaken for something they're not - then perhaps they should dress ina way taht reflects who they are. -
But my argument is that women are the undeserving recipients of most judgement when it comes to how they are dressed.
You know as well as I do that men aren't judged in the same way.
And that is wrong.
In my opinion, of course. -
Of course it's each persons prerogative to dress in whatever way they want but they must also accept that whatever they wear will cause people to judge them.
You can't dress like a streetwalker and then bitch and moan because people are treating you like a whore in the same way I can't dress up in a chicken costume and moan because people are treating me like a chicken. -
My point is that there is a huge difference between the way men and women are judged when it comes to appearance.
And that, in my opinion, is something that needs to change. -
Re: Anok's beauties:
True. And if one chooses to cater to the stereotypical expectations, she will certainly reinforce them. I don't mind hosing down those expectations. In fact, I enjoy defying stereotypes. -
You know as well as I do that men aren't judged in the same way.
Not in my circle. The men are judged far more harshly than the women are. They dress "funny" they're "degenerates" they're "criminals" they're the men you keep away from your daughters....
They are more often than not picked up by and abused by the police her e more than women who dress like the ladies above get cat calls. -
I'm not saying streetwalker attire...I'm saying sexy/provocative. I know to some people it means the same thing. Of course, it's all relative because people view certain attire more scandalous than others.
I have an awesome BEBE dress that I like to wear. I feel sexy in it and I know that it's provocative because the cleavage provokes thoughts. When I feel sexy, I dress sexy. When I feel sad, I dress in sweats. When I feel bloaty, I wear an oversized t-shirt.
Sexy to me wouldn't mean wearing a mini skirt with my underwear showing... I think we're talking about different levels...
I wasn't implying street walker cloths...nothing against women that dress in that attire...but that's not what I mean. -
Well, Anok--that may be true in 'your circle' but that is anecdotal evidence, which means that it can't be generalized to the majority of people.
Research has shown, consistently, that women are judged FAR MORE on their appearance than men are. In very meaningful ways too.
And I think that's a load of crap--and I stand by that position. -
Toni - I understood that was what you meant in your post, but I did want to make a point.
Melinda - men and women are judged..all the time. Everyday people judge others by what they wear and how they present themselves.
If an attractive average woman was approached by a man in a tidy suit or business casual attire, clean shaven face, and nice smelling cologne VS a man in a ripped T shirt, patched up jeans, crustpunk dredlocks, and a funky patchouli smell - which one will she choose to talk to?
I think claiming that men aren't judged by looks (or by personal wealth) is a cop out. They're judged harshly. By women and other men.
Wrong car? Wrong hobbies? Long, greasy hair? dirty jeans? Wrong job?
Wrong guy - says most women. How many crustpunks do you see represented on TV? How many Gangbangers do you see represented on TV (in a positive light?) How many D & D players or Trekkies are represented on TV (Without being the butt of the joke?)
Not many. They're portrayed just as negatively as scantily clad women. (Although I dare say that celebrities like Paris Hilton, Lil Kim Maddonna, etc are from being judged in a negative light simply because of what they wear - they're the ones driving that fashion!).
If you're black, and dress like a thug - you will be stopped by the police. Particularly if you have the misfortune of living in a "white" neighborhood. If you have a skateboard, a flannel shirt, and a mowhawk you will be stopped by the police (particularly if you're in a rich, white neighborhood).
Not for women though - they don't get stopped by the police just for walking home.
We all judge each other - ad while I agree it's a load of crap, it's also a basic defense mechanism that will probably never be overridden. -
Very true, Toni--women are judged to be streetwalkers by *some* people even if they wear a miniskirt and tee-shirt.
And if a woman is raped and she is wearing a miniskirt and tee-shirt, some people believe that she was 'asking for it.'
It's ridiculous--a woman should be able to wear a short dress and high heels without people looking down on her or thinking that she is promiscuous--but that (unfortunately) is what happens all too often in our society. -
But Anok--men and women are not judged equally. I believe you are missing my point. Research has shown that. Women are judged FAR more harshly than men are--and that is absolutely a fact.
While men are judged to a certain extent by their appearance, they aren't judged to the extent that women are--not by a long shot.
That is the point. -
@Anok
I agree. The reality is that we are judged by others by what we wear, and we in turn judge others by what they wear, and that's not likely to change any time soon.
@Melinda
I also agree that women are more harshly judged on appearance than men are. -
@Mtyler,
I don't think there are many people nowadays that would blame a rape on the way a woman was dressed. -
@TT--I believe this kind of attitude can change. One hundred years ago, women could not vote and last year, we saw a woman come mighty close to being president.
Forty years ago, no one would have believed a black man could be president--and we saw that happen.
Things can change--social movements CAN work. I will continue to point out fallacies and double standards. I am my mother's daughter--a true feminist. -
@anin--it would not be brought up as a defense at a trial--but believe me, it would be in the minds of some (if not most) people.
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@Melinda
I have witnessed the change that both you and aningeniousname refer to taking place in our society and in the courtroom. Appearance is no longer brought forward as a defense in Canadian courtrooms in sexual assault and rape cases. -
@TT--I think I know what you are saying--that it CAN play a role in whether a woman is found guilty or innocent. Is this what you are saying? I wasn't sure.
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Can you provide the studies that show women's looks are judged more harshly than men's looks or appearances?
Joaquin Pheonix received a ration of shit for his "blues brothers" look on late night TV, as have other celebrity men for being unshaven, or shabbily dressed.
The male celebrities are followed around and judged just as badly as the female celebrities are in tabloids - their hair, clothes, and weight are the focal point of attack.
Real life men are constantly made fun of - I just don't see how "women are more harshly judged".
If you were talking about judgment based on behavior, I'd agree. Women who are promiscuous are judged more than men who are. But not on looks - men catch their ration.
There are more men than ever getting plastic surgery, implants, and male eating disorders are on the rise. The only explanation of that is that they are being judged very harshly. -
@Mtyler, reminds me of the film the accused, I would like to think we have come a long way from that.
@Anok.
I don't think J Phoenix's bad PR was all about the way he was dressed it was his shambolic interview and his space cadet demeanour.
The whole thing added up to drug addict or mental case, if he had come on and talked intelligently and coherently people wouldn't have taken any notice. -
@Anok--here's one that talks about the double standard of men and women on appearance--there are many others. It's not as easy to find scholarly resarch articles on the Internet. You can find it if you look in a library, easier. While there are many articles, I am looking for valid research. For example, in my current textbook for a class I am teaching and an entire chapter is devoted to these double standards.
www.mcneese.edu/ajpr//vol4/ajpr_08_03.pdf
Here's another one:
www.allacademic.com//meta/p_mla_apa_research_citation/1/0/2/9/8/pages102985...
One more:
www.ingentaconnect.com/content/klu/sers/2005/00000052/F0020007/00003710?cra...
I'd love to send you my textbook--that has a wealth of info in it! -
@Melinda
There is little correlation between physical attractiveness and the likelihood of becoming a victim. To believe that a woman "deserves" to be raped is to say that a wealthy-looking man "deserves" to be robbed. Canadian courts recognize this and more besides.
The persons accused or convicted of sexual offences most commonly deny and justify their acts by blaming the victim. Alternatively, they will excuse their acts as a result of intoxication or emotional problems in their lives. Canadian courts recognize this and more besides.
Our laws restrict admission into evidence information concerning the victim's past sexual relations. What's required first is a voir dier hearing and judicial determination of relevance before evidence of the victim's past sexual conduct can be heard by a jury. -
This has nothing to do with physical attractiveness and being a victim. Rape is done to control and intimidate--it is not a sexual act.
However, how it is viewed by people is a different story. I agree that it would not be used as a defense--but the fact that women ARE judged so harshly as far as their appearance goes, leads me to believe that at least for *some* people--they would feel the victim perhaps should not have been wearing what she did--that she might have provoked the attack. -
I do think there should be a limit at what people where. Not a law, but a common agreement between people that say this is unacceptable clothing. I see all things I don't want to see in college.
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Thanks, Melinda. I'm curious - all of those studies have to do with gender and aging - which has some biological explanation to it. Although I found it interesting that the (aging) women were concerned about looks, and the (aging) men were concerned about..."functioning". Erm. LOL.
I was focusing more on appearance and portrayal by choice. As in, the way people dress, present themselves, bathing habits etc...
Do you have anything that compares and contrasts the social judgments made on men and women of the same age based on appearances alone? (that could also include weight, skin, and natural attractiveness, or material possessions).
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I don't believe it means she's easy, but I do believe it's an attempt at attention in some shape or form. And that's not a bad thing. I just think some women need to realize that dressed extremely provocatively will get you attention, but maybe not the kind you'd hoped for. -
I know someone who had always been plain and overweight(no I'm not talking about myself hehe), anyway all her life she's not been happy with what she's been dealt with life (ok I feel a blog post coming up lol). So after one failed marriage(she chose to leave him), she then met another man. Now this woman has since paid heaps of money to undergo radical changes with her appearance. A a result she goes out of way to dress up sexy ,and goes to lots of nightclubs etc, to make up for her insecurities and what she feels she's missed out on in life. She's also just left husband no 2. I have found pics of her on the net (as you do these days), and my god I am so worried she will eventually get raped, or worse
She's sure getting heaps of attention now, but not in a respectful way
Sorry if I have gone slightly off topic, but all this came to my mind as I was reading through this thread.
Incidentally even dressing very sexy and looking stunning now, she's still not happy.
I think there's a difference between dressing and looking sexy as a woman, to being just plain trashy looking ..
* Please Don't quote this comment for any blog material, just in case .. ;-)-
Thank you for proving my point:
" As a result she goes out of way to dress up sexy ,and goes to lots of nightclubs etc, to make up for her insecurities. She's also just left husband no 2. I have found pics of her on the net (as you do these days), and my god I am so worried she will eventually get raped, or worse
She's sure getting heaps of attention now, but not in a respectful way"
Here's one direct correlation in looking at the way a woman is dressing and the danger of rape.
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Hey Anok and TT--I'm not meaning to run out on a healthy debate but I am running out now. I have to go pick Les up at the airport. Talk to everyone later. Have a good night.
Interesting discussion!-
Night lady
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I think it is unfortunate that it is like that that but it is. And there is nothing that a woman can really do about it because the perception is already in most mens minds - I hear woman say that dressing like that does not make them easy - and cry and complain about it - But they are fighting a loosing battle - If I wear a red t shirt and dickies sagging with a rag round my head - people will think I am a gang banger - regaurdless if I am or not - If I wear real tight cloths with my butt cheeks hanging out the back like Prince - people will probally think I was weird and gay - regaurdless if I was or not - You can not fight a perception - or at least it would take some kind of a major Paradigm shift. So if a woman does not want men to think that way of them - then don't dress like that - No other way around it - I do not necessarily think that is ok - But it is a reality! -
I did wrote an article about this issue on my blog, in a nutshell, if women are to dress like that, they are just attracting men to look at them in a sexual manner and not focusing on the more important traits of a person. -
I totally missed this comment from above, but I wanted to address it, because I think it's important (from Melinda):
If I want to wear a miniskirt and tube top in the summer, who is someone else to judge what kind of person I am?
Now if a woman goes on a job interview dressed inappropriately, then that employer should not hire her. Just as the employer should not hire a man whose got two inches of butt crack showing.
I think that the issue of appearance is very much related to the notion of appropriateness, context, and circumstance. For example, if a woman was wearing a pair of shorts and a tank top on a very hot day while not at work, that's not really anything out of the ordinary. But if the same woman was wearing a pair of shorts and a tank top on a very cold day, or while at work - you now have something totally different where she will be perceived differently.
If you have a woman who is wearing a sexy skirt and top, heels, makeup and hair while going to a night club - you have something relatively normal - but the same outfit in a grocery store on a Tuesday morning is not normal. She will be looked at someone who is trying to get some sexual attention.
If you have a woman who is wearing a sexy little red dress with a plunging neckline while out on a big fancy date with her husband - you will probably not think anything out of the ordinary. But wear that little number to work, and your colleagues might be wondering if their company was taken over by Hugh Hefner.
I'm not huge on "fashion" and whatever, but my one rule is to dress appropriately for each occasion. By appropriate I don't just mean in terms of fashion, but also practicality. You won't catch me wearing stilettos at the playground.
Or, like one woman I know, who at a children's Christmas party, decided to wear a naughty Mrs Claus costume, complete with thigh high stiletto boots. Right after she had hip surgery. Not only did she look entirely inappropriate (rather tart-ish, actually) but it was completely impractical, as she could barely walk.
Now what would be the purpose of wearing something like that to a children's event when it damages your health? one can only assume....and that's the problem with impressions. People get mad when their presentation of themselves nets a negative reaction - but without thought or care as to how they might be perceived before walking out the door in said outfit.
When my hair was dyed neon rainbow colors I never once wondered why people were staring at my head. Nor did I complain, because i knew exactly what they were looking at and why, and if it was something that would bother me, I wouldn't have done it! -
Freedom is bi-directional. In the US, you have the freedom to dress any way you want. However, those around you also have the freedom to talk about you, make their own judgments, point and laugh, cringe, etc.
If you're dressing to express yourself, then what others think shouldn't bother you. If you're dressing up to impress others, then you might want to give it more thought.
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