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Does anybody belive that Matthew 24 was fullfilled in the 1st century
Posted by Mike42lan • 9/30/09 • Subscribe to this Discussion [RSS] • Report This Topic
Topics: christians, Church, egypt, God, jerusalem, josephus, prophesies, tacitus, temple
I know there are Partial-Preterist who hold that view.Many Church fathers and many theologians in the 17th,18th,and 19th centuries belived that Matthew 24 was fullfilled in 70 A.D.When the armies of Titus destroyed the Temple and the city Jerusalem.They take the writings of Flavius Josephus and Tacitus as proof that those prophesies were fulfilled in the first century.Many theologians take Matthew 24:29-31 figurative.God used the same figurative language to prophesise the down fall of Egypt,Edom,and other places in the old testement.Does anybody here agree with this statement.I am a Partial-Preterist who hold that view.
User Comments
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sure. why not?-
Really? That's the best you could come up with? Now is the time to put your education to use! -
no one is listening anyway...
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Yes. Absolutely. And I also believe that the book of Revelations is a metaphor for a process that happens over and over again and leads to progress through warfare, destruction, self-sacrifice, elements being cast out of society/government oppression and totalitarian antichrists, technological advancement, and finally, judgement, just like the US and Nazi Germany, the US and the USSR, or England and the Vatican. -
Perhaps but I often wonder if the reason the dinosaurs became extinct was because Noah did not have room for them on his ark...-
Yes ... it was a shame that boat didn't have bigger ceilings. -
Shuda used titanic -
@CT: YESSSS!!!!!!!! THAT IS EXACTLY THE RIGHT ANSWER!!!!!!!
I can see the passage now:
"And thus God said, let there be gills, and suddenly human beings and animals could breathe underwater, and instead of taking the floodwaters away after all that time, God simply kept them there, and we've lived under the sea to this day." (Book of Nemesis, Chapter 6.021023, verse 3.141583....)
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no i disagree totally, is there any particular line that you are interested in from that chapter? -
Mike,
I say this with the utmost respect and humility as I have no right to judge or condemn another.
Understanding prophecy is not necessarily the point. Prophecy is about confirmation.
identifying yourself with an interpretation of doctrine, and a methodology of interpretation, and holding a belief that is based on compounded assumptions that have been made by many people over time is not the place to stand. I know because I have stood there. I have to say that even if you were absolutely certain of the belief that you stated, It still would have absolutely no impact on your life other than giving you the opportunity to say that you are right about something.
You may have been taught that holding those beliefs actually means something, unfortunately you have been lied to... look at the things you talk about and compare them to the types of conversations that the pharisees had with Jesus. Jesus spoke simply of truth, love, self sacrifice, he understood prophecy but rarely debated it.
I am not saying this to condemn you, but just to make you aware that there is a better way...following the steps of Jesus is about seeking truth, loving others, sacrificing yourself for their benefit, and rarely bothering with theological discussions that often serve only to promote pride, division, or condemnation, to those that see things differently-
@jasonthebaldguy: What about the "Kingdom of Heaven is within you" speech? There may be more to this then you're seeing. Remember, "My fathers house has many mansions," not everyone has the same calling, and maybe part of the whole point of prophecy is to include the bigger picture and those whose calling calls them to progress and industry as well as those to whom the more traditionally recognized callings are given.
Besides this, it only encourages division if people have no respect for human beings. If people love and respect humanity, as too few Christians do, then we will simply be united in weirdness, like the State of California.
If we do not respect humanity, we will never be united, no matter how ignorant, self-serving, creativity squelching, or utopian we become. Fact is, some people are called to think, and you should respect that. And there is a difference between being called to think and placing burdens and judgements selfishly on others. Honestly, what you are asking of both me and my friend is for us to become exactly like you. We're not exactly like you, and even the "conform to the CHARACTER of Christ" is talking in a societal context different from ours today, classical values of the Greeks and Romans. (One of the downsides of the New Testament is, unlike the Old Testament, none of it can be read without historical context.)
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Any gibberish I write is bound to be fulfilled in some way in a few hundred years
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even bwahahahaha
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The trouble though is that the description was so exact with a specific timeframe ("by the time this generation passes"), a specific place ("Jerusalem",) warfare, the complete destruction of the temple, and the societal result (end of society - true - even Jews today subscribe to Rabbianic Judaism, not Temple Judaism) that here it is pretty much beyond reasonable doubt.
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I think you misunderstand my point, I am a thinker, I philosophize (is that how you spell that?) and delve into alot of things that are along the same lines as mike's comment, My point is that coming at these things from somebody elses stand point is a fundamentally flawed method for coming to an understanding of such things. If you are going to think for yourself then start at the beginning, Christianity is so full of methodologies and doctrines that are again "fundamentally flawed" that we cannot see the forest for the trees, I honestly have no condemnation for thinking, but at the same time if one is to think, then let it be from the perspective of seeking to know truth rather than solidifying a doctrine. I absolutely do not desire for anyone to act like me... yet when I say "there is a better way" I am absolutely right in saying that, It has been shown over and over in scripture that God's focus has been on capturing our heart rather than our minds, He has also revealed that wisdom and discernment is more valuable than knowledge, and ultimately that the "wisdom of men" is foolishness to him, ultimately that any knowledge that we may be able to grasp is ultimately meaningless in the grand scheme of things. I am not saying to abandon all efforts to understand these things, but that our focus should be more directed towards understanding the heart of God rather than seeking to find a position on a prophecy that very well could be literal. Like I said before even if you were right, would it really matter? How is the widow down the street from you? how is your evicted neighbor? what happened to those skinny dirty kids down the street whose parents were never home?
1 Cor 12: 29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? 30Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in tongues[d]? Do all interpret? 31But eagerly desire[e] the greater gifts.And now I will show you the most excellent way.
1 Cor 13 1If I speak in the tongues[a] of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames,[b] but have not love, I gain nothing. 4Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
8Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears. 11When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me. 12Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.
13And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.
As I said, "there is a better way" -
@jerry people exist who can envision what will happen in 1 or 2 generation. It's no miracle,just wisdom
@jason hope your painstaking reply will help someone. My post was a little on the errr non-serious side -
@cT: Even so, it qualifies and gives Ethnos to a person claiming to be the "Son of God," which, as there are only three things possible when someone says such a thing, you have all but removed one of the possibillites (complete raving lunatic) leaving only two (Son of God and scoundrel.) By the conduct of his life, I believe we can now say, though it would've been difficult at the time, he was not a scoundrel.
@jason: I'm glad you said that, but I don't see this being a doctrine. I see this being a simple discussion of scripture and the proper way to interpret it.
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What's a partial-preterist...I'm too lazy to look-
do you read long posts (I dont?)
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Partial Preterist believes that Matthew 24:3-34 was fulfilled in 70 A.D. when General Titus Legions destroyed Jerusalem in 70 A.D.,Pauls man of Sin and the Beast of Revelations was The Emperor Nero.Most of Revealtions from Chapter 4-20 was fulfilled in Destruction of Jerusalem or the Downfall of the Roman Empire in 476 A.D.Matthew 24:36 is about the Second Coming of Christ.The Conversion of the Jews,the Rapture and THe Great Throne Judgemant is still in the Future
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