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Focus on Your Own Damn Family
Posted by gmoney • 9/01/08 • Subscribe to this Discussion [RSS] • Report This Topic
Topics: Democrat, palin, Republicans, teen pregnancy
TechFun a BC member said that he/she saw a bumper sticker that stated "Focus on Your Own Damn Family".
I am going to take this a step further.
Palin's soon to be grandchild is a BASTARD. Before you all fall out read the definition of a bastard child.
Dictionary.com - dictionary.reference.com/browse/bastard
a person born of unmarried parents; an illegitimate child
Palin's daughter is off limits and that is cool, but guess what so are my actions with my lover, wife, or GF in my bedroom. What I do behind closed doors should not be legislated. Don't sing the Morality Song and how great of a parent you are then have a daughter that is 17 that is pregnant!!!!
Her daughter is 5 months pregnant at 17. That raises the question, was she 16 when she started doing the nasty? How old was this boy, is this statutory rape? These are hard questions that everyone should be asking. The same questions are asked of parents of the stars like Lohan, and Jamie Lyn Spears..... one a drunk and a druggie and the other a tee mother.
I hold Palin to a higher standard because she is a Governor and her platform is abstinence and not birth control or contraceptives.
I know a lot of people are trying to spin this but the bottom line is there is nothing good about being unwed and pregnant.
Teen parents are shunned in every part of our society. Her daughters pregnancy is nothing to be spun into a positive.
This is a jab, but it goes to the Morality and Righteous attitude of the right.
Read this piece that I found...... www.americablog.com/2008/08/sarah-palin-and-children-conceived-out.html
User Comments
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"shunned" ?? lol ... what are you living in the 1950s or something?-
just applying the same logic to both parties.
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oh.
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Well really "SHUNNED" is an AWESOME and FITTING word for it. I know from experience. I was a 17 year old girl who was pregnant her JR. year of high school. Let me tell you I had LOTS of good friends and several BFF's. I can tell you that only one really kept in touch with me and that was really limited to like twice a year after I had my daughter, who is now almost 20.
I felt so isolated even if I could get my mother to babysit so I could go see my friends or go to a movie, my friends were so less responsible that we were on different levels of maturity. Not to mention that many were just plain weirded out that I was a MOM now. Then your so YOUNG that the other mothers keep you at a distance because you still to imature. It totally sucked in those aspects. I didn't get to go to Prom because my JR. Year I was pregnant and eWW. Who wants a maturnity PROM dress. LMAO
I busted my butt to graduate in my correct year, and I also worked a part time job so I wouldn't be on welfare. So YES I think you hit the nail on the head with the word "Shunned". LOL
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Please verify your sources about Sarah Palin. Here is some truth for you to consider:
CONSERVATIVE BELIEVER
"Palin describes herself as pro-life and against same-sex marriage, although she claims to have good friends who are gay. In 2006 while running for governor, she said she would support a ballot initiative that denied benefits to same-sex couples, but her first veto as governor shot down such a bill. (Palin said she vetoed it because the Alaska Supreme Court deemed it unconstitutional, not because she supports gay-marriage rights.) She is Christian and pro-life, but also a supporter of birth control: she's a member of Feminists For Life (FFL), an anti-abortion, pro-contraception organization. In 2002, she wrote a letter to FFL stating that she had "adamantly supported our cause since I first understood, as a child, the atrocity of abortion." She supports the teaching of creationism in public schools, alongside evolution. She is also a lifelong member of the National Rifle Association and supports the constitutional right to bear arms."
Source: www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1837523_1837531_1837538...-
@global
It may seem that I am railing against Palin.... I have to admit I am a moderate democrat that leans independent and I love Obama. I am tired of preaching morality yet under Mrs. Palin's nose her daughter is having sex. Mrs. Palin family has added to the problem of teen pregnancy in our country. She has not helped at all. Matter of fact her daughter getting pregnant at 17 or possibly 16 is no different than Jamie Lynn Spears doing it. NOT ONE BIT OF DIFFERENCE.
Middle America is no different than any or in this case middle Alaska is no different than any poor side of town. We are all riddled with the same issues. But hey 4 out of 5 kids turning out fine are pretty good odds right? There is a black sheep in every family. -
How has Palin contributed to teen pregnancy?! Come on.
However, I do agree with your statement: "Matter of fact her daughter getting pregnant at 17 or possibly 16 is no different than Jamie Lynn Spears doing it. NOT ONE BIT OF DIFFERENCE." -
her family has contributed? Listen having a 17 year old daughter that is having sex is nothing to be proud of at all. Should be throw her a baby shower to celebrate her success as a single unwed soon to be mother.
Does Mrs. Palin insurance cover this or will this be a burden on the tax payers like you and I? -
Well, now that she is pregnant yes, it should be celebrated. You don't want to bring a child into a world where it's made to feel like it's shameful. Sheesh.
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The child should be celebrated but not the act, but ummmm still, I am a little shaky on even saying that. This is not the same logic that is used when talking about minority and poor babies coming into the world.
Words like drain on society is often what they are referred to. -
I know what you're saying, but the deed is done ... time to move on and give the girl some space and respect. Time to bring the child into a family where it feels safe and loved. No time for terms like "shameful" or "shunned".
Besides, like Obama said, he was born to an 18 year old single mother. Look how he turned out. -
I agree the deed is done......... now it is time to raise a wonderful child that will give to society.
Speaking of giving to society it is funny how Obama is shunned for being of the people..... .community service, he never aspired to be governor. -
"How has Palin contributed to teen pregnancy?!"
Maybe by being so damned busy chasing her own ambitions that she wasn't around to help her daughter make better decisions or notice when something wasn't right? -
Is teenage pregnancy isolated to daughters of career moms? I venture to say no. I can't blame Sarah for her daughter's decision to have sex. What about her father anyway?
On a personal note, I do think Mom's should be at home as much as possible with their children. Definitely. Unfortunately, such is not always an option. -
Of course not, GG, but I'm very tired of hearing this woman praised for her "pro family" outlook because she gives birth when all indications are that she's much too busy to actually put her own family first. If this were one issue, I might be inclined to agree with you--parenting isn't foolproof, no matter what you invest. But it's also quite clear what's being invested here, and if that's the choice she makes it's the choice she makes, but I don't see how she gets to BOTH decide her family comes a distant second to her ambitions AND be the "pro family" darling.
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Would you say the same if it were a man who was running for VP whose teenage daughter was pregnant? Are there different standards for women?
It is so complicated, isn't it? I am sure the whole situation weighs greatly upon Sarah and her husband, let alone her daughter. -
Yes, GG, I would. If a man had just brought a child with downs syndrome into the world and then, just a few months later, that man's teenage daughter turned out to be pregnant, I would definitely say that his family required his full attention and he wasn't really in a position to be tackling something like this--and I'd say it 100 times louder if he were hypocritically running around carrying on about the importance of family.
I don't think it's complicated in the least. When you have children, they come first. Period. If you're not willing to live up to that, you don't have them. -
Hey Global Girl, If all that's true, why weren't mother and daughter both on the pill over the last couple years? I realize it's none of our business, but you're the one putting all those interesting labels on the lady. They don't make sense though.
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...why weren't mother and daughter both on the pill over the last couple years?
How do I know??? Perhaps Sarah wanted a baby? Perhaps she got pregnant despite being on birth control? Perhaps she forgot to use birth control? Who knows except Sarah?
Regarding her 17 year old daughter, perhaps she didn't want her mom and dad to know she was doing the wild thing? Perhaps it was her first time and oopsy, she got pregnant. Perhaps she wasn't even thinking about birth control? Perhaps she wanted a baby?
How will we ever know? Why does it matter? Sarah has made it clear to the public she supports birth control.
My goodness, you lefties are somethin' else. And, no, I am not a republican. -
perhaps she was just horny
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Like the saying goes, hypocrisy always accompanies righteousness.-
Hypocrisy follows liars.
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Frankly I don't give a damn and believe me this does not hurt those who think they are moral and righteous.
The failings of a mother will certainly not harm her with some women, many mothers fail, they are not perfect even though most would like to be. Talking this until you are blue in the face is certainly not going to help your (my) candidate win the election. The discourse needs to concern McCain, his policy, his record, what elected him means to women, education, the economy and so forth - not Palin. Palin may indeed be his undoing, but it has to take it's course. -
As a successful adult that was unwed and pregnant at 16, I would ask what the point of this post is?-
I am not saying that teen pregnancy means that you will not be a successful adult, but it is not optimal.
For years we hear about how teen pregnancy is SOOOOOOOOOO BAD and now that it is the VP daughter it is ok or not that big of a deal.
Is this because she is white and has the means to support the child?
Is it because she is a Evangelical Christian?
Is it because she is a hockey mom and successful?
Why are we taking up for this family that is no different than any other unwed family with a underage child having sex and getting pregnant? -
Simma down money I'm with you on this one! lmao
in reponse to
lots of right points to WW. I suppose it just depeneds who you are and what your station in life is..decides how you will be judged~how harshly & by whom.. sheesh
carry on~
hb
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Lemme ask this - if something like this happened AFTER she was elected, and was uncovered, would she be impeached for it? (Or would the government try to anyway?)
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LOL no not impeached, the same way Obama would not be impeached for being friends with a loud mouthed preacher.
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I was thinking of the scandalous Lewinski affair, and how it got Old Billy boy in very hot water.
Old acquaintances VS illegitimate children running around the White House are two different balls of wax
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Admit Anok your just damn digusted right!?! lol lol : )
Hb
psst they're getting married shouldn't that make it better some how? sorry I couldn't resist : ) -
I'm not disgusted by teenage pregnancies at all. I am somewhat saddened by it, and even more so that this little girl (Yup, 17 is very young in my eyes) will not only be facing motherhood and a shotgun wedding, but she will be doing so under a HUGE microscope because of her mother's ambitions.
Celebrities do a better job at protecting their children from this sort of situation than she has.
And you know who will probably bear the blame if McCain and Palin lose the bid?
The daughter. -
And you know who will probably bear the blame if McCain and Palin lose the bid?
The daughter.
**Ouch**
But I see what your saying.... -
Yeah GG - probably not publicly, but think about it....
I actually cringed when the very thought popped into my head.
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I believe you are correct there Ms..She is quite young and the drama keeps unfolding in this election proccess so far, doesn't it?
hb~ -
Being impeached because of a child's indiscretion...if that happens then they will have to rewrite history... -
That would be, being impeached for a scandal - and, if she were to have gotten pregnant after being elected, and he mother covered it up....
Don't forget, it wasn't the blow job that did Clinton in, it was the fact that he lied about it.
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ah ic, ok good point
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wrong spot
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hahaha Gmoney on point~
how ironic, and who cares? cept for the Evangelicals..:):) Man em Damn Republicans have no damn morals! kidding of course.
hb~ -
Polybore can see why there has been so much chatter about this. It is worth bearing in mind that a teenager with a mother who holds Palin's views is probably going to to rebel big time.
Having said that Polybore hope's that Palin made sure that her daughter was aware of birth control and that the pregnancy was accidental and not a result of ignorance.
Polybore's major concern regarding this story is that the daughter may have been coerced into a shotgun marriage with this boy. If that is the case then it is likely to, in the long term, lead to misery for all concerned. -
OK- you said bumper sticker- I saw one the other day, had a picture of GW and read WTF? I'm sorry just had to share a laugh.-
I saw one yesterday that said:
"Who would Jesus bomb?"
I almost fell out of the car. -
Now that's funny! -
Too Anok
I don't think Jesus would bomb anyone? perhaps he'd drop the F bomb though!!? : ): )
hb~ -
I am going to either FIND or make that bumper sticker!!!!
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Money did you blog this on your blog? it would bring ya lots of traffic
hb~ -
Normally a shotgun wedding is not one that's gets public coverage at all. In this case, due to Palin's choice her political ambitions come first, her family comes second and her handicapped baby as well as her pregnant daughter are in the spotlight.
That means that we are all put in the position of watching the media and the ambitious VP candidate holding the love gun to the young man's temple, while he blinks like a deer in the headlights. He may not want to marry Bristol but with the whole world watching the love bombing it's not likely that he will not tie the knot, is it?-
Indeed. The words "knee" and "jerk" spring to mind. Never the best way to get married.
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So you think Bristol should, perhaps, be a single mom? Or are you implying something else?
Who are we to judge the strength/validity of their relationship?
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Traveling away from the West for 10 months now, I clearly notice how the propaganda has such a profound effect on the West.
The level and amount of conflicts that humanity involves themselves with is crazy.
For an educated country, such as America, there sure is a lot of stress and conflict among the populace.-
You assume that everyone in the US has an education, or chooses to use the one they've got.
Which is clearly untrue -
Them Damn Americans are in a middle of a history making election there Enloit, they are bound to be stressed & conflicted!
hb~ -
ohhhhh!!!~ wow!!
hb~ -
Interesting how a small little comment blows up.
I was referring to the education of the country compared to many other countries, I was not referring to every person in America.
Oh those details of a generality really bends people out of shape.
So why is humanity so sensitive to the slightest detail? -
Paying attention to detail would have served you better.
The winky icons at the end of the comments were there to let you know the comment was tongue in cheek.
In any case, the intellectual advancement of society with regards to politics is directly related to the education of the individual sin said country, and not what the general education levels are compared to other countries, all compared by statistically collected data. -
Like I was saying—sensitive.
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Erm, details make a difference. I was letting you know what the smilie and winky icons were for so that you could understand when people were making a joke - which is not being "sensitive". Jokes are meant to make you laugh, smile, smirk, whatever.
Now I'm just irritated.
And yes, details are important in the written world. -
Many times I just comment just to see what people will respond with.
What will be the reaction? On this discussion board it is easy to have the smallest comment just blow up.
Just adding one or two words can make a difference. -
Enlight~ hello out there lighten up .. joke, smile, laugh.. just a small detail.. or you just trying to be difficult?
hb~
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gmoney,
I think you need to get off your high horse.
Saying Palin contributed to teen pregnancy is a far stretch, even for a moderate democrat.
Teenage pregnancy in America is a troubling issue that we, as a nation, need to get a grip on. This is not a simple issue and there is no single party answer. I think it is more of a moral decline in what we (left, Right, Democrat, Republican, Independent, whatever) have allowed our teens to get away with over the years. When we see people like Spears, Lohan and Hilton everyday being slutty on TV and receiving all the attention, we need to be sure we are countering that image with solid parenting skills and education.
To rant about Palin's position on abstinence versus birth control makes you sound silly. After all, abstinence works 100% of the time, birth control is at best somewhere around 99% or so. Since when is hoping for the very best (100%) for our kids is wrong? Because Palin was shooting for 100%, you’re faulting her for her daughter getting pregnant. Does that mean her message was wrong? No, it means they need to pick up the pieces of that young girls life and move on the best they can. We do not lower our goal.
All because she has different values then you, does not give you any right to play the moral police and try to imply there is a flaw in her moral character.
And one last question. How Moral and Righteous did you think it was for Bill Clinton to have sex with an intern? Something he could have prevented but decided not to, unlike Palin and her daughter.-
Hey Bob~ easy now if your going to bring Bill Clinton in the frey .. better add John F. Kennedy to that list.
hb~ -
harleyblues,
That's my point... Neither party has cornered the market on Moral and Righteous behavior or the lack of such behavior. -
@Ammobob.....
Bill Clinton was WRONG, one more time as if people think that Dems agreed with Bill Clinton getting his freak on in the White House he was WRONG WRONG WRONG!!
You wrote "When we see people like Spears, Lohan and Hilton everyday being slutty on TV and receiving all the attention, we need to be sure we are countering that image with solid parenting skills and education."
If you can hold Spears, Lohan and Hilton to any kind of standard what standard can you hold A evangelical Christian's daughter up to. Or because her mother is running for VP we should not consider any standards? Palin and her family are on the world stage. They, just like celebrities and have made a decision to let the world into their living room.
If Jamie Lynn Spears who is nothing more than a actress can be dogged and dragged through the mud simply because her sister is crazy and her parents are narcissistic what treatment should Palin expect.
Palin made a decision knowing full well her daughter was doing the nasty and pregnant. Palin's platform and the republicans platform is based on values and morals, as Democrats we know and believe in Morals and Standards but we are not worried about forcing them into legislation. No one likes or agrees with teen pregnancy, but maybe for ONCE Republicans will look in the mirror and say damn........ maybe we should talk about real issues and not the hot button issues that blow up in our face all the time. -
Yeah, but only one party consistently claims to own the morality market.....and it isn't the Democrats
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gmoney,
As for Slick Willey, there were plenty of Dems saying “why should we care what the President does in private.” Then after he lied about it, there where still a lot of Dems saying the same thing. I only tossed slick Willey in to ensure a response…lol
This issue is more important than “Slick Willey’s sexscapades. So let’s move on.
You wrote “If you can hold Spears, Lohan and Hilton to any kind of standard what standard can you hold A evangelical Christian's daughter up to. Or because her mother is running for VP we should not consider any standards? Palin and her family are on the world stage. They, just like celebrities and have made a decision to let the world into their living room.”
I never said I hold those freaks to any standard. I said when we see their behavior on TV rewarded, it needs to be countered with solid parenting skills and education. I did not indicate any standards. Governor Palin is running for VP and she should be held to the same moral standards any other Government official is held to, no more and no less.
I guess what I find odd is the loss of hope in teaching our kids the right things. The liberal attitude of “we can’t stop them from having sex, so let’s give them condoms” is not working. The US has the highest rate of teen-age pregnancy, not to mention the rate of STDs is increasing. As I said before, turning this around is not left, Right, Democrat, Republican, or Independent issue. This is about changing behavior and not condoning the trashy behavior that we have come to love and expect everyday in our daily life.
Governor Palin is trying to teach her children the right family values, but you want to condemn her efforts. Do you condemn, with the same level of intensity, the efforts of parents who give their children birth control and they still went out and got pregnant?
We can not fix the problem, if we refuse to look at the cause. This is not a one solution problem and it requires our elected officials to work together. We need to stop this bull-shit figure pointing and my idea is bigger than your idea attitude.
And let’s not get confused about attacking family members. Michelle Obama, Cindy McCain, Chelsy Clinton, Bill Clinton are all adults who choose to campaign for their family member. When you go on the campaign trail and give speeches, you are fair game for criticism. Palin’s children and Obama’s children are not out giving speeches and need to be off limits. Obama did the right thing today to make that clear, now if the rest of the folks supporting him will listen, we can move on to the real issues.
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I love it.
If her daughters pregnancy and her flying too close to labor represents the best complaint that can be raised, McCain/Palin has this in the bag.-
Well, if you've been following the thousands of threads generated in the last few days you'd have noticed it is NOT the only "complaint" about Palin.
It's just one more thing that people are finding out about this woman and shaking their heads thinking...little experience, not the best judgment, poor choices on public policy and backtracking on issues just as she is being nominated, a few small town scandals that wreak of executive abuse of power... - why did McCain choose her again?
Oh, because she's a conservative woman. *rolls eyes* -
@csiunatc: Except those are not the best (or only) complaints. Those are just gut reactions of some bloggers. The real complaint is her lack of experience, and she hasn't had to stand before millions upon millions of voters in the way that Obama has.
The other serious complaint is her refusal to acknowledge the reality of science. This attitude manifests itself in her insistence on the literal reality of the creation story, which she apparently deems appropriate for science classes, not theology. It is also present in her difference of opinion with John McCain over the reality of human caused climate change. She thinks it's hogwash. I know there is a fringe that thinks these stances are great, but we are talking a fringe, not the kind of mainstream undecided voters that she needs to attract.
I've given other reasons on this other thread, so I won't say more here: www.blogcatalog.com/discuss/entry/sarah-pallin-vice-president
So much for "in the bag." -
I doubt you've been following "thousands of threads" yourself. I have been following a lot.
And it seems that the pregnancies are what people tend to focus on as something definite about her ability to be VP.
At least she isn't outspokenly racist toward Indians. -
Where the heck did that last sentence come from? What are you trying to suggest?
Edited to add: The pregnancy news just came out today, so of course it's gonna be talked about, especially for a candidate with her views. I've discussed my own attitude on the issue in several statements in another thread that I'm still trying to find and link to here. . . . Okay, here it is: www.blogcatalog.com/discuss/entry/so-basically-obama-has-won -
I was being facetious about the thousands of threads - only because several popped up here, and on the political boards simultaneously. But yes, I've been following those, plus all of the other reading I do regularly - many of which have addressed McCain's VP choice.
And yes, pregnancies and how she runs her family is an issue - a brand new one to discuss because it falls into the "judgment" category where McCain thought he had the votes locked up. And, like mark said, they just came out - as will many skeletons which have to come out now at rapid fire since no one knows who she is, and there is but a very short time until the election.
I'm also quite lost as to your last statement... -
To Anok!~
Girly straight solid slam dunk!
hb~
Well, if you've been following the thousands of threads generated in the last few days you'd have noticed it is NOT the only "complaint" about Palin.
It's just one more thing that people are finding out about this woman and shaking their heads thinking...little experience, not the best judgment, poor choices on public policy and backtracking on issues just as she is being nominated, a few small town scandals that wreak of executive abuse of power... - why did McCain choose her again?
Oh, because she's a conservative woman. *rolls eyes
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www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ll_goH-aivU
Thats where it came from.
You want more on why i don't hail Biden as some kind of savior.. Do a search for "Biden Drunk" on youtube and enjoy the spectacle..
I guess democrats think having someone with a tendency to sauce up a little too much is better to have one heartbeat away from the presidency than a woman with a pregnant daughter..-
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Definitely NOT his finest hour.
How do we know he was dunk though? -
@csi - ...um, in case you haven't been really doing your objective research on Gov. Palin, might I point out that she does have a DUI arrest on her rap sheet. I guess Biden's not the only one with a "tendancy to sauce up a little too much", eh? Kind of cancels your argument out, doesn't it?
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Quote from "gmoney":
"Palin's soon to be grandchild is a BASTARD. Before you all fall out read the definition of a bastard child.
Dictionary.com - dictionary.reference.com/browse/bastard
a person born of unmarried parents; an illegitimate child"
The child hasn't been born yet, therefore making this whole statement null and void...
Gmoney do you have children?-
He was deliberately trying to get a rise out of people. Not saying I approve of the tactics though.
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Yes I have a bastard child, I pay child support and see her all the time.
I was not in her life for the first year by choice. She is now 9 and the most amazing little girl in the whole wide world. I am making sure that I talk to her about life, sex, decisions and responsibility. I am also building a communication base with her so that she understands that honesty is better than lying. She knows if she lies and I find out she is in it worse than if she is honest about doing something wrong.
I also have a sister and my parents have been married for 37 years. I did not have sex till I was 19 and I did not get the mother of my daughter pregnant till I was 27 and she was 22. -
Fine then, it's a bastard fetus.
Better? -
hey life starts at conception right?
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Thank-you...for sharing about her. Gosh... 9 years old, I bet she's a cutie, hold on to all the precious moments you get with her, they go by tooo fast...You sound like a wonderful dad. I didn't have a dad growing up...I am glad you have a little girl, because you then understand that even when you tell her you dislike her doing something isn't always gonna stop her from doing it. Being a parent is not always an easy thing, we can be embarrassed and hurt by the things our children say and do. But that doesn't make you love them any less, or mean that we are bad parents. It is just the way life is. Noone can predict what another person (including children) will do.
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If that is the way you choose to see it Anok then okay!
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I'm just sayin' that the "bastard" definition doesn't really change because the pregnancy is still in progress.
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that is very true and I can be a lot better as a father and a MAN. My entire point is this. My daughter is a part of me...... she reflects me and my family. The better I do as a parent, the better I hope she will do in life.
The sole value that I attempt to instill is this, life is bigger than just her and I and being selfish and making decision without thinking about others is wrong. My daughter owes it to me and my parents to be the best she can be. Maybe she will disappoint me but if I have anything to do with it, it will not have to do with getting pregnant at 17. I am instilling more self respect than that.
My daughter is learning that you do not find love at the end of some little boys penis. -
Wow...your daughter "owes" you ... hmmm. Odd.
Good luck with the whole parent thing. LOL
Sex happens. Just might happen with your daughter too ... and have nothing to do with you or your parenting or your heritage. Might just have something to do with her. -
Yes my daughter owes it to me to be a good person.
www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/owe
to have or bear (an emotion or attitude) to someone or something
I owe it to my parents to do the right things and I owe it to my ancestors that were American Indians, Slaves from Africa and even white people to be better than they were and to create a legacy of good and ethical living. My parents and my grandparents worked hard to give me the life that I have and I OWE it to them to instill the same thing in my daughter.
So yes my daughter will owe it to me to be a great example of the legacy of our family.
My life and my choices are NOT only about me. -
Whoa! Glad you're not my parent, lol. Don't think my parents ever felt like I owed them something ... they certainly never made me feel that way. I'm sure I would have rebelled against that anyway. But, my parents were pretty anti-authority so I'm sure that's why they didn't behave like that.
Having said that, we're a very tight family. But my actions are my own. Not theirs. Just like their actions are theirs ... not their parents. -
Well, I certainly wish you all the best with your daughter. Having a child or even being around children can certainly make us see our own faults clearly.
I too am hoping that I have changed generational things in my family that were not so good, by being an example to my children and grandchildren. And am hoping to encourage the good generational stuff to continue and even magnify in my children and grandchildren. But I also try to remember when they mess up, that I also had to learn some things the hard way...Ugh! Being a parent can be very complicated at times, but so worth it. -
Would you say that you would not want to disappoint your parents and if yes why would you not want to disappoint you parents?
I am far from strict..... My daughter has a lot of freedom and I am very anti authority.
The better way to view the owe is that she has a respect for me and my family and all the sacrifices I and they have made and will make. -
I never thought in terms of disappointing my parents. The thought process is just not a part of who I am. My family just doesn't think that way.
I've never once in my life made a decision with the thought of "disappointing my parents" as being a factor.
I find the way you look at things to be very foreign to me. -
My growth as a parent, as a son and a grandson is much bigger than it just being about me. I trust you would not want to disappoint your parents, even if you don't look at it in those terms.
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My point is ...I'm not sure what I could do to disappoint them. I'm 46 my father is gone now and my mother is in a nursing home and this is the first time I've ever thought in terms of 'disappointing' them.
Seriously, it's just not something I've ever thought about. Ever. My parents didn't parent that way. It would be a foreign concept to them to. -
So how were/are your values and ethics formed. You just did what you wanted to do for you and no other reason. The decisions that you made in life were based on what? Everyone has a healthy fear of something right?
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Healthy fear? lol very odd.
My decisions were based on what I wanted. That's it.
My ethics came from what I learned through a variety of things. Not all from my parents. Some of my ethics differ from my parents, some are the same. My parents love me and I love them ... we are very different in some ways similar in others. Unconditional love ... that's what a family is. You just accept people as they are and respect the decisions they make because they are their decisions to make.
I can't fathom going thru life making decisions based on how my family would react. God. What a burden. -
I think we were raised very similar but it is maybe how we acted on the lessons of our parents. Maybe my overall culture also weighs on me also.
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Here's a good one pointed out by Wisco on the political boards. Palin opposed sex education and favors educating children only to abstinence: www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0908/Palin_opposed_sexed.html
(Hat tip: www.blogcatalog.com/politics/discuss/entry/sarah-palin-confirmed-as-mccain-...)
The irony involving her own family is unavoidable, but that is a genuinely problematic policy stance for someone who could be a heartbeat away from the presidency. It places her firmly outside the middle of the country on this issue and therefore will make her a non-starter for many independent voters.
Of course, McCain might not actually be making a play for them, even though Palin mentioned Clinton in her speech last Friday. Instead he seems to be trying to shore up his base, and maybe generate buzz. Only thing is, the old adage that there is no such thing as bad publicity might not apply here. -
In my post you will find all kinds of links to sources and quotes regarding Sarah Palin's public record, none of which have anything whatsoever to do with her daughter's pregnancy thistimethisspace.com/2008/08/30/palin-makes-me-puke/
Under investigation for abuse of power
Sarah Palin is being investigated for abuse of power (7/08) after she fired the Dept. of Public Safety Commissioner Walt Monegan. Palin pressured Monegan to fire her sister’s ex husband who is a state trooper. When Commissioner Monegan refused, Palin fired him. Audiotapes released last month reveal that aides to the 44-year-old governor pressured Safety Director Walter Monegan to dismiss Trooper Mike Wooten, after Wooten allegedly threatened Palin’s father during a messy child custody fight with the governor’s sister Molly. Monegan refused to do so and was fired on July 11 and replaced by an official who had previously been suspended for sexual harassment.
Palin said Monegan was let go for failing to fill trooper vacancies and invited a close examination of her role in the matter. The Alaska state legislature obliged, allocating $100,000 to investigate. The results of the probe are expected on Oct. 31, less than a week before the general election.
Of All the Reasons McCain’s Palin Pick is Awful, Evidence of Her Abuse of Power is the Worst
"… We’ve had eight years of a president and vice president who have abused their executive power, using the awesome capabilities of the state to spy on Americans, inserting fake news in the media, pressuring news organizations not to run important stories, silencing protests by penning in all critics in remote “free speech” zones, attacking individual critics with White House-directed campaigns that border on treason, as in the case of the outing of CIA undercover operative Valerie Plume, whose husband had criticized a Bush argument for invading Iraq, and threatening government scientists who wanted to report their legitimate findings on climate change.
We have seen over these past eight years just what abuse of power can do to destroy democratic government and a free society.
So now we have Gov. Palin, whom evidence suggests may have abused her power as governor of Alaska to fire the state’s public security director after he blocked her efforts to destroy the career of a low-level state trooper who happened to be her former brother-in-law, because she wanted to avenge a sister engaged in an ugly post-divorce custody dispute. …"
… We’ve had eight years of a president and vice president who have abused their executive power, using the awesome capabilities of the state to spy on Americans, inserting fake news in the media, pressuring news organizations not to run important stories, silencing protests by penning in all critics in remote “free speech” zones, attacking individual critics with White House-directed campaigns that border on treason, as in the case of the outing of CIA undercover operative Valerie Plume, whose husband had criticized a Bush argument for invading Iraq, and threatening government scientists who wanted to report their legitimate findings on climate change.
We have seen over these past eight years just what abuse of power can do to destroy democratic government and a free society.
So now we have Gov. Palin, whom evidence suggests may have abused her power as governor of Alaska to fire the state’s public security director after he blocked her efforts to destroy the career of a low-level state trooper who happened to be her former brother-in-law, because she wanted to avenge a sister engaged in an ugly post-divorce custody dispute. …
baltimorechronicle.com/2008/083108Lindorff.shtml
Getting Real About Palin
… "We rely on elected officials not to use the power of their office to pursue personal agendas or vendettas. It’s called an abuse of power. There is ample evidence that Palin used her power as governor to get her ex-brother-in-law fired. When his boss refused to fire him, she fired his boss. She first denied Monegan’s claims of pressure to fire Wooten and then had to amend her story when evidence proved otherwise. The available evidence now suggests that she 1) tried to have an ex-relative fired from his job for personal reasons, something that was clearly inappropriate, and perhaps illegal, though possibly understandable in human terms, 2) fired a state official for not himself acting inappropriately by firing the relative, 3) lied to the public about what happened and 4) continues to lie about what happened.
These are, to put it mildly, not the traits or temperament you want in someone who could hold the executive power of the federal government."
talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/211769.php -
what's the big deal here? So f#@king what if her 17 year old daughter is pregnant. This is an ISSUE that America is facing.. Teen pregnancy is an American social issue and the fact that Sarah Palin's own 17 year old daughter is pregnant is something that several American families can relate to. Far too many teens whom had a child had parents whom were not supportive of their decisions and it is likely those mothers may vote for McCain just because of Palin being accepting and supportive of her child's pregnancy.. Is Palin a bad parent because her teen daughter more than likely ignored the values she was taught, or went ahead and had sex like every other teen in America.. I hate to break it to you, but 17 year old girls are out there having sex.. and some of them get pregnant.. Even in Alaska believe it or not.. Who woulda thunk teenage kids would be f#@king on those endless days of dark in the middle of winter.
At present, 3 in 10 girls in the United States become pregnant by age 20.
There are more than 729,000 teen pregnancies annually.
Obama's mother had him at just 18, though Sarah's daughter having a child at 17 is an issue? Seems you have double standards.-
Obama's mother had him at just 18
Oops... -
No double standard, Obama's mother had him at 18 and was MARRIED if I remembered correctly. This is not about Obamas mother. This is about another Republican with a high Moral standard being shown up as a fake. her daughter is 17..... and not married. Why did she not listen to her parents, were her parents not involved enough, was her mother over zealous and put her career before her kids and where in the hell is her husband?
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Obama's mother wasn't running for the second highest office in the country...
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NO but a man Raised by someone with that "lack in morals and judgement" IS....
This is a non-issue. But i'm glad that its the best the dem's can do..
At least it takes the view away from a black man choosing a racist for his running mate. -
Unclear of the concept much?
You are comparing a man who was a child of a young mother - to an unborn child of a 17 year old when the criticism is about her MOTHER not her, or her child.
If you wanted the comparison to be fair, you'd have to attack Obama's grandmother.
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under investigation....
ok, so nothing has been proven yet. And apparently, no evidence so bad that McCain through it would be a problem.
I'm sure that more than one person weighed in on this before the selection was made. People with better resources than blogs and "internet only" newspapers. Would surprise me to no extent if this goes past being an investigation.-
@csi - with regard to the mighty RNC's obvious ability to vet candidates better than bloggers and journalists, let me point you to today's NYTimes article on the subject. And I quote:
"Aides to Mr. McCain said they had a team on the ground in Alaska now to look more thoroughly into Ms. Palin’s background. A Republican with ties to the campaign said the team assigned to vet Ms. Palin in Alaska had not arrived there until Thursday, a day before Mr. McCain stunned the political world with his vice-presidential choice. The campaign was still calling Republican operatives as late as Sunday night asking them to go to Alaska to deal with the unexpected candidacy of Ms. Palin."
www.nytimes.com/2008/09/02/us/politics/02vetting.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin
So much for all that strategic thinking...
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Actually the "Abuse of Power" is alleged...it hasn't been proven.
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Sorry gripe all you want....it is still alleged.
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Yeah, firing a trooper for making threats isn't right, lol.
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OF COURSE NOT... if she did that, she would be encroaching on the Democrats staked out territory of being the only ones that does something right.
One second its police abuse is bad, the next they should be allowed to make threats. (unless a democrat fires them of course).. -
Oh dear God she didn't fire the trooper, but the troopers boss who didn't cave into her personal request to fire the trooper.
For a woman who supposedly upholds the laws of the land as a governmental official, she sure side stepped that little speed bump known as the judicial system.... -
Yeah.. so she fires the person that is supposed to be doing his job for protecting a bad cop. And this is bad how?
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Because he did what he was allowed to do by teh protocol in which he is confined.
The trooper in question received a punishment from his boss, a punishment that did not include losing his job.
If she felt it was inappropriate, she should have proceeded legally, removing herself from the chain of command, seeing as there was a clear conflict of interest.
Instead she asked for a personal favor that may or may not have been legal, and got pissy when she didn't get her way, and fired the man who didn't cave into political demands.
It really makes you question her understanding of laws and the justice system, and ability to actually maintain power without abusing it. -
Funny, in what i've read, there wasn't much showing that she was in direct relations to this affair at all. there are others around her that are being accused of running her errands. But again, nothing has been PROVEN as to that.
Judging someone on unproven accusations. Isn't that something that you are against normally Anok? -
Actually, the trooper in question is her sister's ex.
That is a conflict of interest AND I actually took the time to read about it, and better yet, got to listen to the recorded phone calls regarding it that are all over the place.
For someone trying to support this - you don't actually know much about it, do you. -
Yes i've been listening to the phonecalls.
And so far, i've seen nothing except that there are other people making calls.
Please get me a recording of Palin where she is abusing her power?
You are still considering it right for you to judge someone before they have been proven guilty. I guess its just the standard Hypocrisy. "I can do it but you can't" BS.... Oh well, nothing new there.
Its much easier to win if only one side has to play by the rules.. lol -
Not to mention that her side of the story is that she replaced a member of her cabinet because she wanted to see more results in areas concerning that cabinet chair.
Lord forbid that a politician fires someone for not getting results.
Sounds to me like your not listening to both sides of the story, again not something im particularly surprised at.
You're better at claiming others don't understand things when your arguments are wearing thin. -
Erm, no - she doesn't have to be found guilty in order to realize that she made some very serious mistakes in her time as governor. (All two years)
NOT removing yourself when there is a clear conflict of interest is a HUGE mistake that I would prefer stayed out of the White House.
NOT following through with a legal process in a legal manner is something that is not welcome in the White House.
CIRCUMVENTING the proper procedures is a huge mistake that we have seen far too much of by the Bush administration - nope, I don't want that in teh White House either.
And of course, it doesn't take a rocket sceintist to know or unerstand that politicans never ask for outright favors or directly dirty their hands. The manon the phone i sher assistant. Tell me, who do you think he works for?
Tell me, why was the person fired?
And tel me, since you didn't even know who she fired 33 minutes ago, or how the trooper was related to her, how is it that you are going to try and tell me that you've been following this?
you clearly don't know much about it. Except for what you've learned in teh last thirty minutes or so. -
1. The commissioners areas of focus was defined to Bootlegging and rural alcohol problems. Something that Palin said was his interest and where she wanted more results.
this happened a few weeks before he was fired.
Don't know about the governors office, but i do know about managing staff. And when you clearly focus someones attention to a certain area, you are either expecting something serious. OR you are attempting to relieve an overworked person of some tasks so that they can perform.
A few weeks later she replaces him because she isn't seeing results in that area. Sounds to me like there was no progress made like they had agreed on when his duties were limited to begin with.
Being a business consultant, i see Nothing out of the ordinary here.
sounds like the person just wasn't producing. (Which by the way is what she is claiming)
" I am not seeing the results i want from you. I want you to focus on this area and produce something worthwhile. Give me a report in two weeks on 1.2 and 3. and we will discuss this further then. "
When that person in comes up with nothing in the agreed time. you fire them. It's that simple. -
If it's that clear cut, why is she being investigated?
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Because those that would want her investigated can have her investigated. The investigation as such is a non issue. Until it finds her guilty it means nothing.
The ability to investigate a politician through an independent prosecutor is part of having a functional government.
The need to convict them based on the evidence and not the innuendo is part of having a system of laws. -
As usual, you missed the point - unless you really think that a civil employee with a nearly spotless record all of a sudden gets a case of the whines, and decides to have her investigated for no good reason, then there is a reason.
Just like any other time a person is fired, if it is legitimate, it goes unchallenged. if it is questionable, it gets looked into briefly, if it is seriously questionable, it is thoroughly investigated.
If it was all "legit" and easy and on the up and up, they would have already put it to bed.
She's held her office for a mere two years, and is already under a serious investigation. That is NOT common place.
It took a decade before anyone bothered, or had the testicular fortitude to investigate my state's governor, and they had to have a lot of meat to go on. You can't just do it on a whim...or out of spite.
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No child should ever be referred to as a bastard or illegitimate. Only the unmarried parents are illegitimate.
And you refer to lovemaking as "doing the dirty?" Come on Gylon! I understand most of us think she is a twit and not VP material, but let's leave her children (possibly grandchildren) alone.
Just like Clinton's indiscretion ... this isn't any of our business either. I have to admit though, that last night when I heard about it, the only thing I was pissed about was the fact that she introduced the baby as her son. If he is her son,then she is owed an apology. If he is her grandson, then he is owed an apology.
That this might very well be a hypocritical situation, we now must follow Obama's lead and agree that families are off limits. His seems to be the voice of reason.-
I totally agree with you Theresa about calling any child any degrading name, it is just plain wrong, and archaic.
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I love when you call me out by my real name
I do not think she is a Twit at all. I actually thing she is kinda cool..... but I disagree with her stance on creation, abortion, big oil and religion. I never said that I hate or dislike the woman.
I say bastard because years ago women were sent away, hidden or forced to give up their kids and their kids were labeled bastards........ Right or wrong we have to understand that being a teen mother or being unmarried is not "cute"! It is only a issue because her moral and values are her platform and she has failed to instill those in her daughter. -
Yes, Theresa. Her family is off limits.
Her policies and experience, on the other hand, well, I've said something about those above and I think I'll create a loop by linking to long reply on another thread that brings it together: www.blogcatalog.com/discuss/entry/sarah-pallin-vice-president#comment_55795...
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Edited to add: Gmoney, you cannot say "she has failed to instill those in her daughter." You know nothing about her daughter's values or the circumstances of her pregnancy or her relationship to the father. Let it go. This line is not only a disservice to a teenager (and attacking kids ain't cool), but also to the Democratic cause. (I added these remarks after the fact, because your reply wasn't there when I wrote the above words.) -
You're so trapped in the past gmoney. I don't know anyone who thinks in terms of "illegitimate" or "bastard" and I grew up in the 70s! Are you sure you're not a republican? Or 80 years old?
As for Sarah ... someone made a reference in a blog I read that she looks like the mom from King of the Hill ... LOL I agree! That's who she reminds me of. -
I'm still thinking Tina Fey, whether I see her on TV or hear her on the radio. SNL better not let me down.
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Little Red Dog, Wait 'til I tell Joe what you said about Tina Fey and SNL. I'm going right now. Love it!
And ... Gylon? Were you sticking your tongue out at me? -
@Theresa111,
Have you heard of any apologies yet? Fact is, the baby is her son. -
Who would apologize? That kind of BS is started by faceless rumor-mongering. Obama has nothing to do with it and has stated that families are off limits.
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@mark,
The comment was to Thresa111 who said "I have to admit though, that last night when I heard about it, the only thing I was pissed about was the fact that she introduced the baby as her son. If he is her son,then she is owed an apology. If he is her grandson, then he is owed an apology."
I was only asking if she has heard of any apologies.
I never said Obama had anything to do with it and your right he did come out and do the right thing today.
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Obama wife was not off limits, his father was not off limits, BUT nooooooowwwwwwww Palin parenting skills are off limits.
My entire point is about Palin not her daughter. \
This is not about her daughter, but her mothers platform and failure at influencing her own daughter.
Republicans want a hand in my school, in my religion, in marriage, in my bedroom..... like the title of the post states "Focus on Your Own Damn Family"-
@Gmoney: You've got a point about Obama's family. Keep making it. But you don't need to go the same route that Republican hit men went. We can do better. Machiavelli emphasized the importance of ends being more important than means (The Prince), and he's right to a point. But there's also something to Gandhi's emphasis on means (Hind Swaraj).
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Michelle Obama is very cool, stylish and seems extraordinarily grounded. What's not to like?
P.S. Little Red dog has a point. Since we have decided upon Obama as our choice, then we all need to adopt his calm and classy demeanor. There are many of us who can take the cue from his lead. If he is to be our leader, then we need to learn to start following ... now. -
I see your frustration, and I'd feel the same way. However using out-dated language like 'bastard', and also the expression 'my daughter owes me...' is only going to get other people fired up about attacking your position instead of understanding why you feel this is relevant. -
I try I really try....... really I do.
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Republicans like Palin have been shoving their version of sexual morality down everybody else's throats for the past thirty years. And I can guarantee you that if Obama or Biden had an unwed pregnant 17 yr. old daughter, that, as an example of the lack of traditional family values among liberals would be Republican Talking Point #1 in this election season.
Do I agree with their version of morality? No. Am I in favor of throwing it back at them? Hell, yes, as hard as possible.-
drjay.... I concur!
But not to sure how hard. -
It's not about how hard, it's about the way in which you do it. It's also about picking your battles. Don't just take the easy tactical opening. Think about the big picture. Where is she weakest? Why should she not be vice president? What does John McCain's choice tell us about him? Let's not get distracted. We've got an election to win and a country to set right.
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I mean this thank you on wise lil red dog!
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As a foreigner living in a world where US policy affects my rights without my ability to vote for change, I'd applaud the advice Mark is giving. Another few years of Republican derring-do around the globe along with their hypocritical morals scare me. My own government isn't strong enough to stand up to the US, and the EU hasn't yet come together as a strong enough counter-weight, so please, make sure your battles are important and attack McCain on the real issues. I'd hate to see him and his ilk rewarded with an election victory because the electorate dislike the attacks on Palin's family.
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I have seen foster children get pregnant, I have seen institutionalized people get pregnant, I have seen teens with absentee mothers as well as teens with overbearing mother get pregnant. No amount of supervision and being around can prevent a hard headed, hormonal teenager from hooking up. Ever heard of the preachers kid getting knocked up? Happens all the time. I love it how people assume that conservative people must be flawless, to hold a beleif in something does not make you impervious to failing to constantly live up to it, and if you did, you would surly have a breakdown. Teens rebel against what their parents shove down there throat. It's a fact of life. I find it tasteless how people keep bringing up her parenting skill, and how she must be a bad mother because she works. I have had projects that lasted a few days, and I felt my ex-husband was just as qualified to care for my boys as I was. Didn't make me any less pro-family, it made me striving to provide better for my family.
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Well said
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Republicans seem to enjoy lecturing other people on Morals and Values.
The Dems platform is not based on lecturing other people on there values as a parent. -
However, if you take this from a policy point of view, it is clear that a range of methods of birth control need to be implemented and blindly asserting abstinence as the solution is proving to be ineffective yet Christian conservatives will not change their position.
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Life is good, happy monday........
check out what was posted by ....opinionstreams
with regard to the mighty RNC's obvious ability to vet candidates better than bloggers and journalists, let me point you to today's NYTimes article on the subject. And I quote:
"Aides to Mr. McCain said they had a team on the ground in Alaska now to look more thoroughly into Ms. Palin’s background. A Republican with ties to the campaign said the team assigned to vet Ms. Palin in Alaska had not arrived there until Thursday, a day before Mr. McCain stunned the political world with his vice-presidential choice. The campaign was still calling Republican operatives as late as Sunday night asking them to go to Alaska to deal with the unexpected candidacy of Ms. Palin."
www.nytimes.com/2008/09/02/us/politics/02vetting.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin
So much for all that strategic thinking... -
OK, just to muddy the waters further, from the Washington Post today, Palin's aide claimed she was fully vetted:
www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/01/AR2008090100710.ht...
ST. PAUL, Minn., Sept. 1 -- Before she was chosen to be Sen. John McCain's running mate, Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin submitted to a three-hour interview with the head of his vice presidential search team, and responded to a 70-question form that included "intrusive personal questions," a senior campaign aide said Monday
I'm sorry, but three hour interview and 70 questions? The local supermarkets ask for more from baggers when they are considering anew hire.
Furthermore from the article, Palin's aide denies that anyone came to Alaska for further investigation, as claimed by McCain's aides:
The aide denied reports that a team of a dozen McCain staffers has traveled to Alaska to do further investigation of Palin's background. The adviser confirmed the team is there, but said it would have had a similar assignment whomever McCain had chosen.
HELLO people. They can't even get their stories straight!
And from the New York Times article above:
People familiar with the process said Ms. Palin had responded to a standard form with more than 70 questions. Although The Washington Post quoted advisers to Mr. McCain on Sunday as saying Ms. Palin had been subjected to an F.B.I. background check, an F.B.I. official said Monday the bureau did not vet potential candidates and had not known of her selection until it was made public.
This just gets better and better.-
It doesn't seem like McCain is putting "America First," as they say with their advertising slogan. It's purely a gimmick to try to win votes. They couldn't give a rat's ass what's good for America.
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At this point, from reading several different articles about her vetting, I don't think McCain is in control of his campaign.
Which is a bad sign.
He didn't want Palin, his manager did. From the article:
Up until midweek last week, some 48 to 72 hours before Mr. McCain introduced Ms. Palin at a Friday rally in Dayton, Ohio, Mr. McCain was still holding out the hope that he could choose a good friend, Senator Joseph I. Lieberman, independent of Connecticut, a Republican close to the campaign said. Mr. McCain had also been interested in another favorite, former Gov. Tom Ridge of Pennsylvania.
But both men favor abortion rights, anathema to the Christian conservatives who make up a crucial base of the Republican Party. As word leaked out that Mr. McCain was seriously considering the men, the campaign was bombarded by outrage from influential conservatives who predicted an explosive floor fight at the convention and vowed rejection of Mr. Ridge or Mr. Lieberman by the delegates.
It seems he would have even preferred Mitt Romney over Palin.
Ouch.
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I've posted an article describing the failure of McCain to properly vet Palin and expressing my outrage.
opinionstreams.com/blog/?p=47
If McCain's willing to pull the trigger on a VP pick without gathering proper intelligence first, what else will he be willing to blindly pull the trigger on? -
IMO it's ENOUGH now
If Democrats really want to win this election then the time has come to stop the self serving blog promotion focused on Bristol Palin's plight. What's needed is for Democrats to follow in the steps of Obama. Obama's take on the matter is: A candidate's family members should not be a variable when it comes to a candidate's ability to govern.
Let's face it. There have been an amazing amount of attacks and lies coming from the right wing about Obama and his family so it's tempting to dig up dirt on Palin's family to retaliate but it's not smart.
The time has come to
(1) put a sock in it
(2) promote Obama and Biden's stands on the issues, and
(3) work hard to get out the vote.
www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/01/obama.palin/index.html-
Great Post TT.. I agree!
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@articulates
Yay! I'm so glad we agree. [HUG] -
naaaaaaaa I like mud slinging more
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@gmoney
You are smart so you will not be slinging.
I can feel that in my bones. -
You dug up this thread to make your point, TimeThief? Several of us had already pointed to the problems earlier.
Of course, this kind of mudslinging is counter-productive. Palin is vulnerable on (1) the issues, (2) the discrepancy between her record and the image McCain advertised, and (3) her experience. That's quite enough to go on. Independents need hard information from solid sources. They're not going to be swayed by mud, except possibly against the people the people slinging it. -
no I wont be mud slinging!
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@Gmoney
I didn't think so.
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This discussion is perfect evidence to the damaging effect of choosing Palin.
Without giving away a post I'm working on....Democrats are so tired of Republicans calling themselves the party of morals that unwed-mothergate and troopergate are perfect fodder.-
Only I think Democrats would do well to concentrate on substance and avoid personal attacks. No point in making themselves as dirty as the Karl Rove type of Republican.
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It's too late to reverse instinctive behavior...I never go to the Huffington Post...but I had to on this...
There is a whole section devoted to Palin stories. One heading being, "The Worst Vice Presidenital Pick in History."
This is not so much about "personal" attacks as a morality play on an entire political party. -
Humans have reason, not just instinct.
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Humans have reason, not just instinct.
Well, of course they do!
I'm talking about, to phrase it another way: gut reaction. When a Democrat has felt for all his voting life that the Republicans have attacked their party's moral standing then it is very easy to react in an attack-back mode...and I do not hold that against them.
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There is nothing that irritates me more then a hypocrite. . . but on the other hand her advice is more valuable since she has first hand experience in that kind of situation. I definitly don't feel like pregnant teens are shunned. My sister in law was the same age when she had her first baby and still went on to get her ba in college and is now doing really well for herself. -
It doesn't matter what she does or says, GOP has no chance at all this year... they picked a girl as a gimmick to try and persuade Hillary voters.
Obama 08!-
I think you're missing an important point. McCain picked a social conservative to shore up his base, which he desperately needed to do, in order to ensure a decent turnout on election day.
And even though Obama now has a decent lead in the poles (www.politico.com/news/stories/0908/13094.html), we would do well to take McCain and Palin seriously. I know Obama and Biden are. Best way to win.
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We have an estimation and a reason. -
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Who said anyone is perfect? Would everybody who is against Sarah Palin be happy if her daughter got an abortion and shoved everything under the rug. If you have children I feel sorry for them. No one could match up to your "perfect" behavior.-
No one is stating that Palin's daughter should have had a abortion...... Republicans and the Religious Right always preach to others about family values and ethics....... no one said that they should be perfect but please take care of your own damn family!
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wow...what a topic? I am still amazed to see those who feel that Palin's daughter, 17, having a child, is not related or important to those values that she herself preach and hold dear.
wow....
luculent
web-justice.blogspot.com-
It's less about relevance than how we treat children and young adults. By attacking Palin on this stuff, people drag her 17-year-old daughter into it, and that girl really didn't ask to be in the national spotlight, nor does she deserve grief from millions of total strangers who she's done nothing to.
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I've read this whole thread now and the whole thing just makes me really sad. The poor girl is getting trashed in the media and by millions of people who don't even know her, what happened, why, or how. As a parent who tries desperately to be the best parent I can be, I know that I will not always be listened to, respected, or taken seriously when my child becomes a teenager because that is the nature of the beast. They are hardwired to rebel to become independent functioning adults and sometimes that results in disastrous consequences. All I can do is hope and pray that my children make good decisions and use the values they have been taught, but I know that they will make mistakes as all humans do. Just because a child is not perfect does not mean the parenting was shoddy. Besides, all I hear is that the girl is pregnant. No one seems to care that she was having sex, only that a child is the result. I agree with everyone who says that now that the pregnancy is a reality that the daughter should be loved, supported, and taught to be a good parent herself instead of tearing her and her family apart. The last thing the innocent "bastard fetus" ever needs is to feel that his/her existence was a mistake or that he/she is ever shunned/unloved/unwanted/ or less valuable because of the circumstances surrounding conception. In a way, I think it shows more "family values" that Palin's daughter could come to her with the "mistake" and feel loved and accepted than if she had quietly slipped off somewhere secretly and had an abortion, her family none the wiser. In fact, I hope my children will grow up knowing that I will love them no matter what, that amazing concept of unconditional love that so many teens never feel because of fear of judgmental parents.-
great points..........
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I think the daughter should be off limits, but it would help if her mother wouldn't put her on a stage and use her own status as a hockey mom as a qualification for president. That's just tempting the fates too much. The public should get off the daughter's case, but so should the mother.
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Gmoney, this satire is for you. If you don't love it, please report to a hospital and get yourself checked out: www.npr.org/blogs/visibleman/2008/09/your_pocket_guide_to_speaking_1.html
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mark that is GREAT...... I love Satire and I can take a joke or 2 or three.
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For those lefties so critical about Palin bringing 4 of her 5 children on RNC stage tonight, were you likewise as critical towards Obama when he brought his two children on stage at the DNC?
Even Obama said children are off limits...-
Please tell me you see the difference, but just don't want to.
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NO.. please do tell me the difference. Why would it be ok For Obama and not Palin?
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Sorry, I see zero difference. Why should Palin not show off her lovely family, given Obama strutted his family in an even more glorious attempt between the styrofoam pillars?
As the saying goes, what is good for the goose is good for the gander. Oh wait, I meant, what is good for the dems is good for the reps!
Or, what is private to the Clintons is private to the Palins ("private"). Well, that one is not fair as there are many more secrets with the Clintons, but we won't go there. -
Still hoping that Mark will clarify this one.
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Read your article. But im still waiting for you to clarify this one Mark....
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Is forty-eight hours up, yet?
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not even Gmoney is sticking to that one.
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Snickering as I go off to bed for the night. Yawns and snickers. Good night
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I am close
slipped up a few times, but it is close, about 18 hours to go -
Palin is taking care of her family. She still loves her daughter even though she had a failing. What is the option ex-communicate the daughter. The child is coming regardless. He/she is still Palin's grand child. That will never change.By confronting the situation and being open and transparent, she is taking care of her family.
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By choosing to run for VP when she knew her daughter was pregnant, Palin is placing her career ambitions above her family. How could you knowingly thrust your daughter, who's going through enough already, into such a media firestorm? Sure, Palin loves her daughter even with her faults, but does she love her enough to respect her need for privacy and a whole host of other things even if it comes at the price of halting her own career advancement? Apparently not!
And don't think I'm critical of her because she's a woman or a repub. I blasted John Edwards when he chose to keep running even though his wife's cancer had come back. How dare he put his political aspirations ahead of caring for his dying wife? And then to cheat on her...Edwards doesn't even exist to me anymore!
My question to you is, would you be so quick to jump to Obama's defense if one of his daughters popped up pregnant? Do you think Republicans and the Christian right would do so?
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We've got so many Sarah Palin threads going, I guess I have to say this in several of them. I just posted a very long article on her called "The Case Against Sarah Palin", markstoneman.wordpress.com/2008/09/04/the-case-against-sarah-palin/. Much of what I say speaks against her speaks for her in social conservatives eys, so some could read it as "The Case for Palin". I've spent a lot of time on it, linking up as much evidence as I could. Much more could be done, but I decided enough was enough already. I hope it proves of interest to some of you.
Only a section near the beginning addresses the specific issue raised by this thread, but much of the rest deals with her religious social conservatism too. -
People who live in glass houses should not be throwing stones. I applaud what Palin stands for. There aren't that many like her for that she is courageous for standing up. -
Just lookin to see how this thread was coming along GmOney
hb~
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