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Good to be strong in what you believe?
Posted by morgantj • 19 days ago • Subscribe to this Discussion [RSS] • Report This Topic
Topics: beliefs, bias, growth, knowledge, progress, understanding
I notice many people say that they should be strong in what they believe. I beg to differ. I think we should be skeptical and critical of what we believe. It is one who holds strong to their beliefs that cannot grow, cannot learn anything more, is limiting themselves to their current beliefs. I don't think it is a commendable trait to hold strong to ones beliefs, I think it is a commendable trait for those that dare to question their own beliefs, that value pursuing truth and understanding no matter where it will take them even if that means discarding their current sentiments without letting their biased feelings interfere. Holding strong to ones beliefs is not favorable when one holds it so strong that they put themselves in an uncompromising restrictive narrow position, so much to the point that they look for things to support their belief (confirmation bias), rather than look for what is true despite their belief.
Follow the evidence where ever it may lead you, without expectations.
On the same note I will link to an old related post of mine -
www.travisjmorgan.com/blog/2008/01/23/avoiding-a-backwards-mentality/
User Comments
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I think I agree...but maybe not...perhaps...not sure...persuadable, yet critical...
Is that what you prefer?
(DaniG seriously confused now...)-
That's okay. Just be funny because it cheers us up.
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One can make a commitment, take a stance, but we should also be the first to be critical of our own beliefs, we should apply the same level of critique to our own beliefs that we do to others beliefs if not more. We should not hold fast to our belief just for the sake of holding a strong belief, rather, we should seek the truth of the matter even if the evidence leads us away from our current beliefs. We should allow this, and not close the door because we want to show strength of faith. Real strength is demonstrated by those that allow themselves to change, and acknowledge reality.
There may be times we take a stance, hold a belief, that in time, we realize is incorrect, as evidence has pointed to a more likely explanation, etc... We should not be embarrassed to have been wrong in our belief, but should rejoice that we have found something that is closer to the truth than what we once believed. That demonstrates strength.
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I think the same. But I think that what makes people wants to be strong in their beliefs is the fears. The first one is the fear of death, but there are many others.
I have to say that this is something that question me a lot. How ones can transform their faith into certitude? It seems to me that these two words should stay in different register.-
Yes, people fear the unknown, and this fear of the unknown probably does contribute to their attempts to them wanting to hold fast to believing in something rather than having no belief at all. Studies have show that humans find it easier to believe in things rather then to disbelieve. Disbelief took more effort. Studies have also indicated that people value belief in something, anything, over not believing in anything at all. Also, there are many people that value belief in belief. They argue for the utility of belief, whether or not that belief be justified or not.
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I think that as well as questioning just their beliefs, they should question their motivation for holding those beliefs.
As Angel said, some of these motivations might be rooted in fear (for example, religious beliefs may fall into this category for many), but I think others might be rooted in issues of status or self esteem.
Consider someone who steals things. Few people want to think of themselves as dishonest, or a bad person, so they come up with extravagant self-justifications. "I steal this because the company that produces it is bad. So I'm actually doing the world a favour."
That sort of thing.
To confront this type of self-justification and see it for what it is can be extremely difficult.-
Yes, motivation is a key factor. Not everyone is a truth seeker. There are a lot of comfort seekers as well, those that are motivated to believe in things that comfort them. For example, those that suddenly turn to believing in a god on their death bed. No "truth" realization suddenly occurred to them, what motivates them to believe at this time is the comfort it brings.
Those that are not motivated by the pursuit of truth seem to be the ones that are most defensive about their beliefs and put on a show of "strength of belief" as though it added some kind of verity to that in which they believe.
But I fear that these people ironically will never be comforted by their beliefs when their motivation is that of comfort. Similar to the hedonist paradox. -
Nice distinction: truth seeker vs comfort seeker. I like it, and agree with the paradox you mentioned - to an extent. That's when we start getting into questions about whether there's a difference between:
1) what you believe and
2) what you believe you believe.
Similar to the question about consciousness: are we actually truly conscious, or do we just believe we're conscious? And is there a difference?
What does it matter in this case? If you believe that you truly believe on your deathbed, even if you really don't, are you not comforted anyway?
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Truth is not something one can possess (which is maybe why so few people seek it). Just as no one can fully get to the bottom of Substance (the answer to the question "what is Being as Being?") - one can only induce Substance time and time again. Hence, curiously, doubt is in some sense the only reliable "proof" of a conviction. This was touched upon here: beingandquirckiness.blogspot.com/2009/04/conviction-vs-intolerance.html -
I agree...I think all of us should open our mind to other possibilities. -
You can be strong in what you believe without closing your mind off to all doubt. Just make sure that what you believe is deep, detailed, and cut down to the smallest possible quantum so that you know what parts of it are axiomatic and what parts open for interpretation and perhaps even seen wrong.-
The best way to making sure ones "belief is deep, detailed, and cut down to the smallest possible quantum" is to question it, critique it, test it, evaluate it's probability of being true, etc... Also, the value of a belief shouldn't be determined by how passionate one is with their belief or how "deep" it is, etc... It should be valued based on how probable it is that it is a justified true belief.
Also, strengthening ones belief should not be so much an attempt to "know what parts of it are axiomatic and what parts open for interpretation and perhaps even 'seen' wrong." That sounds like the words of somebody that wants to defend their belief rather then be critical of their beliefs and strengthen the case for it being a justified true belief.
Furthermore, these efforts are not done for others, they are exercised for yourself, to be closer to the truth. You should care more about what "is" wrong with your belief rather then care about how it is "seen" wrong. -
That's more or less, exactly what I said, but notice, it still motivates your life!
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Well,I stand strong in my faith...belif,not so much. I have been let down many of times in my belifs.-
Faith is a belief, particularly, a belief not resting on logical proof or material evidence.
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No it's not
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"No it's not" - Do you believe that statement or have faith in it?
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Listen mr.man...I'm not about to get into technicalities with you because you already know what I have to say...deja' vu big time. I stand strong in my faith.
My belifs not so much...
Santa was a pretty big let down.
GOD will always be there... -
Jesus Christ.
BELIEF-
I was saying that as in:
Jesus Christ, Holly, BELIEF is not spelled BELIF -
Are you sure you weren't just "Jesus dropping" and using what was obviously a minor innocent spelling mistake as an opportunity to add suggestions of "Jesus Christ" into our unconscious and turn this into yet another god infected holy thread?
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I knew that didn't look right
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I don't do "subtle"
I am normally very obvious.
Plus, I'm a devout Athiest. So it's highly unlikely I'm trying to spread my "I love Jesus"ness around and convert others. -
LOL. I was just joking.
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I know, but I wanted to write "I love Jesus"ness. I mean really, how many opportunities will I ever get to write something like that?
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Whoa! Why did the concepts of "GOD" and "Jesus Christ" have to be suddenly brought into this discussion? Aren't there enough discussion on BC about these concepts already? Does belief only apply to these concepts?
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U know good and dang well what you posted this thread for. The weak minded atheism thread is getting too long and you were needing a fresh thread,but didn't wanna word it the same....
Doesn't take rocket science,haha-
I know Santa was a pretty big let down for you as you mentioned. And I'm sorry he let you down, I really am, but you gotta move on and stop carrying that baggage around with you. It is really getting to you, to the point you have completely missed the message of this thread, and in turn have fabricated a wild story to misdirect from your inability to justify what you call the "technicalities" of your position.
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BAAALaaaaa BAAALaaaaa BAALaaaaa.....couldn't you just say HOLLY you've missed the point of this thread bc u believed in Santa,like most 5 yr.olds
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I could of said a lot of things in a lot of different ways. But I said exactly what I wanted to.
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I agree, be open to grow and change, or modify your thoughts on topics. To not think is a crime, or not have beliefs in something, doesn't seem to be a possibility; but if you truly have no beliefs it could lead to depression. I'm convinced that humans need one another in order to talk out loud, help dialogue their thoughts. -
Do we not sometimes confuse strong belief with its strong expression, which to me is simply the emotional need to be right?-
Can you please elaborate?
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Two things: First, I've heard people take a position and defend it almost violently, but for various reasons don't think they are really that strong in the actual belief. They get caught up in the moment and just have to be right. I wonder how often this is true.
Second: there are many quiet believers who may or may not question in the light of new information, but don't broadcast what they believe or feel the need to discuss.
I know you're talking about actual belief, but I wonder how we can know that - just pondering. -
Yes, I think many people get too caught up in a defensive position and feel that they just have to be right rather than really make an honest attempt towards reaching the truth of the subject matter. I think some are afraid to be wrong, some might feel they would be embarrassed, etc... and therefore fervently hold strong to their position and claim to be extra passionate in their belief as though that adds some kind of value of verity to it.
As for quiet believers that may not even question their beliefs, that really never put much thought into it, I think there are a lot of those too. But there may be just as many that quietly and constructively question and critique their own beliefs. So, what is there to say? They keep to themselves. -
@soirette
That was very well-said.
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I completely agree. Our beliefs must be constantly examined and refined as we grow and learn. -
A well-examined faith is infinitely more interesting than one that is accepted blindly, IMO.
With that said, Travis, one shouldn't presume that the same questions will lead all people to reach the same, or even similar, conclusions.-
I agree!
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I fully agree with you. I am continually open to learning new things and take nothing that I perceive as set in stone. I'm always looking for answers, but part of the fun in it for me is not knowing the absolute answer. The possibilities are endless. -
I can never be sure about what i know or believe. I only know there is a phenomena.
I think this is called Dunning–Kruger effect.-
Well, you must be "sure" to "know" something. Because if you are indeed unsure about it, than you really don't know at all. So there cannot be a time you are unsure about something you know. It doesn't follow.
The Dunning–Kruger effect is an interesting effect. Almost tragic! - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
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believe = be-lie-ve
What you agree to be lied about to
And if you want to be "strong" in it and defend it to the death, then it is foolish and vain
Why do you want to have beliefs and thrust them strongly onto others?-
Do you "be-lie-ve" what you have just written?
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Yes, but not unnecessarily strongly. I could argue in its favor to the extent the counter-arguments dont void my belief
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I don't agree to be knowingly lied too. Does that mean I don't believe anything?
I might believe that something has a good probability of being true. But I don't believe that the good probability of this thing being true is a lie. If I did think it were a lie, I wouldn't believe it. So I don't agree with "believe = be-lie-ve - What you agree to be lied about to" -
If you have a better interpretation from the origin of words you can post it here perhaps. This is my own hastily crafted split
@I don't agree to be knowingly lied too
Surely, you do use assumptions and guestimates
@But I don't believe that the good probability of this thing being true is a lie
That's not the core of the subject. It is a derivative one not having much practical importance. If you do want to pursue, bear in mind the word "probability" itself accommodates the 'lie' so there is nothing else to agree
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Doubt is a virtue. Doubt is another word for “open mind”. Imagine how world history would have been different if Hitler, Stalin or Mao suffered self-doubt. People give absolute certitude too much credit. Ideology (political or religious) has created a lot of misery in the world. We can believe whatever we want, just don’t demand others share them and we'll all be fine.
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