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Gosh Am I wrong for thinking
Posted by ekim941 • 4/25/08 • Subscribe to this Discussion [RSS] • Report This Topic
That if we all raise our kids properly, many problems would be solved?
That drug dealers wouldn't sell drugs if no one bought them?
That Filmmakers wouldn't make films with gratuitous sex and violence if no one bought tickets?
That gun control wouldn't be an issue if no one committed crimes?
I'll probably get kicked out of here for saying this but stop pushing for stricter laws, more bans and stronger enforcement and start spending some time with your kids. Clean up your own mess before you worry about societies.
User Comments
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Amen, brother.-
I'm shocked!! Someone actually agrees with me.
You're supposed to say, "It's not my problem, blame someone else". -
Bill Cosby said much of the same and got flamed. Sad, isn't it?
I totally agree with ya, ekim. -
@Mewie, "Come on people!!"
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and it probably wouldn't hurt if the government took a trillion $s and instead of a surge in Iraq invested it in a surge in education -
@Tony, I'm all for spending some money on our own "Huddled masses".
But how many people complain about tax dollars that got to schools? -
My values aren't based on others complaints :).
Imagine if the same amount of money the US has spent in Iraq was spent on the US educational system? The same results you speak about with better parenting would accrue to the US and the world. -
Your values may not be based on others complaints but you need the votes to get things done.
I agree with you but I don't think that personal responsibility and accountability are taught in public schools. At least not as I recall.
America is based on Freedom. You can lead people to a fountain of knowledge but you can't make them drink. -
Our kids are influenced in many ways by schools, both negatively and positively.
The problem is we haven't led a large % of the US population to a fountain of knowledge. A great education is much more than simple knowledge. A great education can have a major impact on the knowledge, values & ideals of its students.
I strongly believe there are many people in the US, particularly those who have been disenfranchised, whose neighborhoods and family lives, now and in the future, will be greatly improved by having a unbelievably good educational system. Allocating $1 trillion dollars with the same dedication, thought and intensity as we have carried out the war in Iraq will result in a people who will have more creative solutions to the serious problems the US and the world currently faces.
And I don't recall having a majority vote on the war either! -
I'd like to see better schools myself. But the truth is that my daughter goes to a very under funded school. She is on the honor roll and many other kids fail, is the school any different for those kids? No. It comes down to parenting. And I have heard parents complain to teachers that the "No child left behind" act wasn't working. They use that as an excuse (I don't need to worry about my childs education "Bush" will do it for me).
No, we didn't vote for the war, we voted for the officials that voted for the war. My point is, at least in FL, every time a fraction of a cent sales tax increase goes on the ballot to fund our education system, it gets voted down. Then people complain about the schools. I just don't get it. -
To some degree, though, ekim, you have to keep in mind that not all parents have equal capacity. You obviously are more intelligent than the average person and have an upbringing that helped you place value on these things. If you're in an underfunded school district, chances are good that many of those children not on the honor roll are being raised by single mothers working two jobs just to keep the kids fed, who may themselves not have the education necessary to be much help beyond the very early stages of elementary school even if they were home to do it, and who certainly can't afford tutors and software and such to help out. -
Perhaps you guys in Florida are intoxicated by the sun and lack of ozone protection.
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MadameX, I would agree with you fully if it hadn't been for Oprah Winfrey and Dr. Martin Luther king Jr. (To name just two examples). I don't think that they came from wealthy families with college degrees.
It is possible to not follow the excuses and rise above. I'm a construction worker, that gives me an excuse to turn out lazy uneducated kids. I just choose not to. -
@TonyB, Nice try. I don't think that education issues are isolated to FL.
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@ekim941, though if you suggesting that we get all our values from parents, then Oprah is a poor example as she didn't change her life because of her family upbringing.
Both Oprah & MLK are extreme examples of what is possible when the human spirit rises above life conditions.
Unfortunately, for the vast majority of us, we need more than a strong will and indominatble spirit to instill a sense of values, inspiration & ethics.
While the family is one source of these lesson, a great educational system is another place that we learn. In fact, the educational system is critical in setting our standards. We become like those with whom we hang out. So if your kids are hanging out in a school with thugs and drug addicts there is a much higher chance that they will become a thug or a drug addict. And if your child is in a school with inspirational teachers, kids who are there to learn and grow, your kid will likely have a much higher standard for herself. -
ekim941,
What she said.
And, getting back to the title, "Am I wrong for thinking" - in some circles, yes. Thinking is sometimes frowned upon. -
@Norksi I frown on you for your wisdom
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@TonyB, I would like to remind you that my point is for all parents to take action, not just a few. So the thugs you mention would no longer exist at all in my scenario.
It is easier said than Done, I agree. Now let me show you some inspiration:
www.cedu.niu.edu/~fulmer/starfish.htm -
ekim, I think your response is a bit disingenuous. Do you honestly intend to suggest that you don't believe that Oprah or MLK had any gifts or abilities not common to the average child? Do you really intend to compare the family of a minister to that of a waitress working double shifts in the inner city with no father in the house?
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ekim, re your response to Tony, that's lovely in a perfect world, but of course, you can't magically make all parents comply. Given that, the challenges faced by the parents who agree with you 100% and put their all into doing just as you suggest remain precisely as Tony suggested--we can't control what OTHERS do, only how we act/react in the circumstances that exist.
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Tiffany, these were extreme examples of people that did not live down to the excuses and made something of themselves. I was debating that children can succeed even if they don't come from wealthy and educated families.
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It's not always the parents' fault.
But, yes: responsibility on all fronts is needed.
Sensible.-
I'm not "Blaming" parents. I just think that our efforts would be better spent trying to change the world with our kids rather than change the world for out kids.
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I agree with you mostly, but I definitely have seen some good parents give it their all and lose their kids to some ugly influences anyway.
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True, we can't win all of the battles. But we can minimize them if we apply take some responsibility for our own actions.
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I agree with you, ekim, provided: if and only if all parents will do their their share, but if not, environment will be a greater factor for motivating our children (either negative or positive) and may play a major role in shaping our children, regardless of what they are taught at home. -
In most cases, yes, I agree. It would go a long way if more personal responsibility were taken all around. We've become a very "blame others" society.-
I can't tell you how often, when I was practicing criminal law, an adult man came into my office with his mother and she told me all about how the crime he was charged with had been someone else's fault.
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Failing student, blame the teacher.
Kid is violent, Blame the music industry.
Kids is promiscuous, blame Hollywood.
It can't be anything you did or "Didn't" do. -
LOL
Why take the heat when you can blame someone else? -
Are you volunteering to be the scapegoat?
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Tiffany, I can envision it.
It happens so often in business, too. With outsourcing, corporations are increasingly setting things up so the vendors hired for particular tasks can take the blame for things like miscommunication, no project sponsor direction, etc. Then internally, their jobs are very secure.
It's frustrating the amount of unnecessary finger-pointing that goes on-- and which you have to prepare yourself for.
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This reminds me of a cartoon I saw on the Internet.
Pacman is on trial because a kid did something really bad. It's not clear what the kid has done but it's disturbing enough to bring the video game that the kid played on trial.
The lawyers keep prodding Pacman into admitting that it was his game's violent nature that resulted in the kid's actions. Pacman finally looses his cool and says:
"look the kid was already messed up when I met him !"
The way I look at it, banning stuff or censorship laws wont do much. On the other hand spending time with your kids and trying to help them understand what they see out there is more effective.
A couple of weeks ago my nephew and I were walking in Mysore and we saw a bunch of kids playing cricket in a mosque compound. Both of us are cricket fans and I suggested that we go and play with them.
He looks up at me and asks incredulously: "With Muslims ??"
He's only eight and frankly I'm not surprised. With the sort of hate speech that come's out of people it was only a matter of time before he starts to voice their opinions.
However, he trusts me more than them. So he'll listen to what I have to say about equality and rascism. We ended up playing with them in a mosque and had a jolly good time. At the end of it he decided for himself that playing with Muslims wasnt such a big deal.
Kids are bound to find stuff, however much you try to hide it from them. That's their nature. We were all kids once; remember how exciting it was to explore the world ? What's important is that they understand the gravity and scope of what they discover ... and parents are the best people to help them do just that.-
I think everything reminds you of a cartoon on the internet
I just feel like most people are busy sopping up water rather than fixing the leak. I guess it was a bit of a rant on my part but it was meant to be motivational. -
I love cartoons. And I dont forget the one's that make me think.
I think you touched on a really good point there. I'm not a parent, but I raised my nephew along with my mother since he was three months old. I was eighteen at the time and the rebellious teenager phase was well within me. I guess it's that sort of tumultous period that made me see the light. It's not the society we have to blame. It's us.
Ranting is good. Better than motivational speeches is what I feel. Ranting makes people who bother to listen think, rather than just programming them be inspired. A lot of the world's problems can be solved if only people would sit down and THINK instead of just blindly following the other guy. -
You raised your Mom?
I think the rebellious teenage phase is healthy if done properly. It's when Kids get emotions when they turn 13 (It's a birthday present) and they are learning how to use them. The rebellious phase is there way of saying, "Ok, I have what you taught me now leave me alone and let me play with it".
Hey, the best way to learn is by making mistakes.
I kinda thought I was going to get "Booed" for starting this thread, I am pleasantly surprised.
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Yeah, how good does it feel when someone actually reads your original post, understands what you're trying to say and then on top of that, agrees with your ideas?? What a concept!
All we can do, my friend, is the best we can to teach our children right from wrong, to have confidence in themselves and their decisions, and then send them out into the world with hope that we have done a good job. Not everything that goes wrong with a child is the parent's fault. We just do our best!-
I think we have all started threads that we wish we hadn't.
Sorry that you got misconstrued in your thread. -
And that you seem to be going to bring your frustrations about it into other, perfectly good threads.
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that sad part is there are so many parents out there who let the tv babysit there kids. and i wont go into the others.
i think you should have to have a license to have a kid, you need one for a pet.-
I know. There are so many parents at my daughters school yelling at teachers coz their kids are failing. They have no Idea what the kids are even studying but can tell you every detail of every show on TV.
Turn off the tv for an hour and help your kids with Homework. The parents are getting too much tv as well.
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There are cases in which, even with parents love and affection, education and guidance, things goes wrong. What I'm saying can sound trivial, as for every case considered there are exceptions, but it's hard to explain why sometimes things goes wrong when parents do care and try to give their best. I have 3 kids (one is almost a teen) and I'm constantly worried about proper guidance, friendship and talking. The main point is to focus that 'to rise our kids properly' involves giving love and affection as well as establishing limits, a balance that is extremely hard to get.-
Exactly. My point is "Where" we should focus our efforts.
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We could start voting better and worrying about the global warming thread...
but seriously, focus on education. -
Good example:
Worry about global warming or teach your kids to be environmentally conscious?
Focus your efforts on the later and problem solves itself.
You won't even have to leave your home -
see?! you got it!
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Whoa, MadameX, I'll pretend I didn't read that. Uncalled for.
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I guess we're all entitled to our opinions.
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I second that first Amen! -
I love you Mike. -
Oh look, one rant and the Ninja gets all squishy
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It's true - I am a big softie....
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I'm confused. Has there been some kind of push for stricter censorship? I haven't noticed any.-
I know that I regularly get calls from "family oriented" not for profit businesses pushing for bans on certain materials (games, music, videos, movies) because they aren't family centric.
I gave one group a chance, tried out their family oriented product - and found it lacking. I have a hundred kid friendly movies that are better quality and cheaper to boot, and they don't contain anything that their movies didn't contain.
I, for one, am tired of hearing people push for bans and censorship of adult materials because of the chiiildrruun. -
Well, Mark, I don't want to single any people out by providing links but they are out there.
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Download the podcast from NPR for "Talk of the Nation", 4/24/2008. The first segment deals with the comic book scare of the 1940s and 1950s. There were public burnings of comic books. An interesting story that also had to do with a generation gap.
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In the 70's there were public burnings of Black Sabbath's records in USA and England.
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I would have to agree.
Sad, but true! : )
Be a good example for your children and society will improve. -
Hm.. more profound problem and Yes, unfortunately, this can be the inescapable reality for all of us.
Yet, parents endeavors seem to concentrate almost exclusively on these latter considerations. At least being good parents and role models is important. -
i agree with you, too, ekim. nothing ticks me off faster than blaming music or video games or movies or the kid next door for a person's behaviour. yes, if all johnny or joy do is play violent video games 24/7, i bet they might react more violently than the average person. but WHY are johnny and joy playing violent video games so frigging much? what's the root cause?
as mark points out, we've seen these scapegoats all through our history. comic books, rock-n-roll, heavy metal, movies ... way back in the stone age when the height of video games was Pong and Jumpman, parents fussed about Dungeons and Dragons.
meh.-
Very True. To prove my point, lets ban all forms of media and entertainment altogether. Sit back and watch crime rates skyrocket. Damned, I guess it wasn't the entertainment industry after all.
Where are the parents when the kids are playing "Grand theft Auto" and the like?
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Every time I see this thread on the front page, it makes me laugh.
"Am I wrong for thinking?"-
I admit, I cut it off there as a play on words.
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I suspected as much.
It's working.
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I agree, ekim and this reminded me of one of my favorite songs by the Eagles:
I turn on the tube and what do I see
A whole lotta people cryin' "Don't blame me"
They point their crooked little fingers ar everybody else
Spend all their time feelin' sorry for themselves
Victim of this, victim of that
Your momma's too thin; your daddy's too fat
Get over it
Get over it
All this whinin' and cryin' and pitchin' a fit
Get over it, get over it
You say you haven't been the same since you had your little crash
But you might feel better if I gave you some cash
The more I think about it, Old Billy was right
Let's kill all the lawyers, kill 'em tonight
You don't want to work, you want to live like a king
But the big, bad world doesn't owe you a thing
Get over it
Get over it
If you don't want to play, then you might as well split
Get over it, Get over it
It's like going to confession every time I hear you speak
You're makin' the most of your losin' streak
Some call it sick, but I call it weak
You drag it around like a ball and chain
You wallow in the guilt; you wallow in the pain
You wave it like a flag, you wear it like a crown
Got your mind in the gutter, bringin' everybody down
Complain about the present and blame it on the past
I'd like to find your inner child and kick its little ass
Get over it
Get over it
All this bitchin' and moanin' and pitchin' a fit
Get over it, get over it
Get over it
Get over it
It's gotta stop sometime, so why don't you quit
Get over it, get over it
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Thanks Chelle. I was afraid that you would Quote Michael Jacksons "Man in the mirror" or worse, provide a link.
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Hehe, I am going to post this song everytime I hear someone whine and cry on here about being offended and want to BAN a topic.
I really loathe the whole BAN EVERYTHING mentality. -
You just quoted the Eagles?
We are no longer speaking. -
Get over it.
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One of my favorite songs... except for man in the mirror, of course. Let me see if I can find that link... -
@offendedblogger
As I was reading above "Get over it!" came to mind. I scrolled down and you had posted it --- too much ... LOL
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As someone who enjoys a certain reasonable amount of the gratuitous sex, violence, and drugs, I appreciate hearing you say this!
If you don't like something, don't participate in it. If you do, then do! Simple, easy...
but making everyone act responsible for their actions is much harder to do than it is to say, sadly.-
True. But if we spend more time saying "Be responsible for your own actions" and less time saying, "Let's ban this", we are off to a good start.
IMO, if you don't like what's on tv, change the station (Just one small example).
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Holy crap. Someone on BC who actually believes in taking a little responsibility, instead of the "Bash, Trash, and Blame" method of communicating in most other threads.
Ekim, you're officially my hero!-
So, you don't want to "Ban" this thread?
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I don't want to "Ban" any threads.
Now, 1 ply toilet paper, that's another story. -
Nah, double up and it works just fine.
Don't spoil it for the frugal individuals that don't fear the dreaded "Finger poke through". -
Problem is, I never remember to double up until after the finger poke... and at that point all is lost.
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Can you say, "Hand sanitizer". Or you could just leave it there for an unsuspecting "Wet willie from hell".
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A sandwich just ain't a sandwich without that tangy zip...
"Wet willie from hell" huh? damned if I'm not gonna remember that next time I'm out at the pub. -
Definitely don't lick your finger first.
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Sorry ekim, but how are you really supposed to have a conversation, when the you already answered the issue? :-)
I mean people like you, Anok, MadameX, the Doc...who do you think you all are. How DARE you have meaningful thoughts on subjects dealing with life? How DARE all of you use cognitive thinking and common sense. How DARE all of you for being happy people, with morals.
Can you imagine if you all lived in the same neighborhood? My goodness, what would "normal" people think of you?-
Sorry
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I wish he lived in my neighborhood, I'd put him to work.
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I'm about ready to consider moving.
Would be nice to work some time soon -
Hey, you're a good looking guy, there is always stripping. -
But that would be demeaning and demoralizing.
Nope, I could never do that again. -
Wow, someone thinks I have morals?
Don't tell anyone, OK? It'll ruin my reputation -
Don't worry Anok, no one ever goes on the internet.
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Hear hear!-
So' your not "For" the prohibition of guns, drug, sex, violence and anything else on todays menu?
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i'm against prohibition. i'm for individual freedom and responsibility.
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If you want solutions to problems but you don't take self-responsibility, YOU ARE PART OF THE PROBLEM.
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I'm old enough to remember when we had fewer rules and didn't get told what we should and shouldn't do all the time. I get tired of being treated along with the general mass, as an idiot. Life is about making your own informed decisions. Take your own responsiblity and stop the culture of blame.-
Yay! See, there are people who believe this...let's start a revolution!
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Yeah, I like a good revolution. So long as there is a hot logo'd t-shirt and jaunty little beret on offer.
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The logo on the t-shirt could be:
"Put that finger down and STFU" -
You made me snort Mike!
But the real question is, will you screen print that onto tee-shirts, and give me one for free? -
"You made me snort Mike!"
You weren't pointing when you said that, were you? -
Only with my mouse.
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It all reminds me of the King of the Hill episode "Trans-Fascism":
"They banned that food to save us! Think about it, Hank! If they government isn't deciding what we can and can't eat, who will, huh, who?!"-
Actually, I have something I want to say about that. But I'm not gonna.
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tease.
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*bats eyelashes*
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Yeah, STFU, I like that.
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Let's add to the list:
Ban McDonalds because Americans battle with weight issues.-
Ban lads mags because of friction burns.
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Hey, we are already banning trans fats.
And, fast food joints have caved to the pressure of providing "healthy alternatives" for their customers. Not that I mind the selection, but honestly if I want fast food - that's what I'm going to get, if I wanted something healthy, I'm not going to go to a choke and puke. -
It's all about self control and personal responsibility.
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For the most - I agree! Although I would be more concerned about what factory farming and other such places are loading up regular - should be healthy - food up with. You know?
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Well that is up to the FDA and involves regulation and inspection. But an outright ban in the name of those that can't control themselves is outrageous. Personally, I enjoy an occasional McArtery clogger.
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nope, we need more exercises.
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Exactly, if people don't buy (no demand), then there'll be no supply.
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So, you'll sign my petition to ban bans?
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Very interesting and insightful. -
I was thinking about this only yesterday. A thought popped into my mind about "The Wild Wild West," and seeing the gunslingers in my mind's eye and how people would live all alone in the wilderness or have to go off and leave someone so they could go get medicine or food, or whatever they needed. I thought about how people needed to have guns in order to protect themselves and how those times were so dangerous. When I was growing up, there was a peaceful attitude and a safer feeling. Nowadays, everything seems like "The Wild Wild West."
Perhaps a little Victorian composure would benefit our world's society, in general, and that movie makers should start making movies with more content and a whole lot less of nudity and sex and violence. The shock value is almost non-existent and that in and of itself is frightening.
We need to build better schools, have the return of discipline, food preparers should actually prepare balanced meals. Remove soda and juice machines and junk food from the students and faculty as well. Hire many more teachers and have smaller classes, so students can get closer to their teachers and learn more. Teach tolerance and respect everyday before classes commence and after school programs.
If no one bought drugs, then the dealers would not have a marketplace.
If we banned certain movies or TV shows, then they would replace them with quality shows.
Yes ... the world needs to rethink and redistribute the monies toward helping others. War, hungar and poverty should be abolished.
Lastly, all evil people should be disenfranchised.-
"If we banned certain movies or TV shows, then they would replace them with quality shows"
I have a pretty creative imagination but I just can't see that kid in the beavis and butthead shirt sitting down and watching quality shows. -
Theresa, that sounds wonderful.
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I see a different problem. I think, ekim, that over time they would, or at least some would. Some would because they had glimmers of other interests and, with a gap to fill, started feeding them. Some would because they can't bear to turn off the television and so will watch whatever is available. But, Theresa, I don't think that we can assume that the shows you're talking about WOULD be replaced by "quality programming", for the simple reason that there's little if any money in quality programming, so the incentive to spend money creating it just to fill empty space is very low.
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I'll agree with that MadameX. Now I want to point out that the kids that have a "Glimmer of other interests" could easily be guided by parents to pursue those interest more than the beavis and butthead shows. So again (And I feel like a broken record) we are looking at parental guidance being very key.
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Easily? I'm not so sure about that. When a kid goes to school--especially in the adolescent years--and everyone else is talking about Beavis and Butthead, that exerts a powerful influence. And there's the natural tendency of kids that age to reject interests their parents have fostered simply as a means of asserting independence. I'm definitely not saying it can't be done in some cases, but I have to take issue with "easily".
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This got me thinking, isn't it true that some of the highest earners at the box office were movies like Finding Nemo?
I don't know if this would apply to television programming (I don't see why not) but I'm not sure why they continue to pump out garbage when quality family stuff is where the money is, at the box office at least. -
You're right, MadameX, "Easily" was a poor choice of words and is exactly why most parents don't bother. It's not "Easy", parenting never is.
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I want to agree with you Chelle. I think that "The Simpsons" has made more than "Dora" I can't be sure though.
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Ekim, I've noticed that there seems to be an attitude with a lot of parents that it isn't 'in vogue' to be an assertive parent.
For instance, I see more and more children running amok in stores and restaurants than ever before, displaying rude behavior, while the parents just ignore them.
It is so frustrating!! -
@ChelleB... true and same reason why McD's is seen everywhere and we've never seen McSalads.
Fast food, fast parenting, fast bucks & fast ....ummmm.phucks! -
offendedblogger,
About "Finding Nemo" vs. 'Attack of the Red-Hot Sorority Slashers' (I may have the start of a screamplay there):
I've read some interesting explanations.
One is that it's a cultural thing in the American movie industry: if you don't make dirty movies, you're not 'cool' or 'in' or 'grown up' or something. Could be, I don't know that subculture all that well.
Another is that it's comparatively easy to crank out another sexploitation action-thriller, while making the next "Finding Nemo" requires something beyond cameras that will focus, and some guys to point them in the right direction. (I know: I'm being unfair.) This could be, too.
As to why we can't seem to find "Finding Nemo"-like programming on television? Same points and speculation apply.
Good question, BTW. -
Chelle, many people use the excuse that you can't discipline your kids without CPS getting involved. I don't beat my kids and they still behave.
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Chelle, here's a year-by-year list of the top grossing films: www.boxofficemojo.com/yearly/chart/?yr=2007&view=releasedate&view2=domestic...
You may be right. There may be other factors that divide what succeeds at the theater versus on television, though. -
@ekim I agree, it has almost scared people away from parenting.
*sigh*
Not to mention that the kids are pretty much taught in school that they can cry victim if you say "BOO" to them. -
I smacked my son and he called CPS on me.
The kid told me to STFU and I slapped his mouth.
The cop thought I did the right thing -
Ekim, funny! Of course he is damaged for life now, you know.
He will need therapy. -
Can you imagine the terrible burden of knowing that it is wrong to cuss out your father
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Wow, here is a list of the top earners at the box office. Look at how many are great family flicks!
www.imdb.com/boxoffice/alltimegross?region=world-wide-
There is hope for us yet.
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Yes, American Pie was the raunchiest one and it was like #327 in that list.
It really makes me mad, I miss the days of innocent programming. That goes for commercials, too.
Bring back Andy Griffith!
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offendedblogger,
"'in vogue' to be an assertive parent. "