Discussions
Has religion made us all spiritually ignorant?
Posted by muley12 • 10 days ago • Subscribe to this Discussion [RSS] • Report This Topic
Topics: brain washing, God, love, Religions
I feel that many of us have been brained washed by the major religions; not to find God, but to follow them like mindless sheep. What do you think?
User Comments
-
I am not trying to stir up a hornet's nest here, but rather trying to get people to see outside the box they were raised in. Want to discuss this?
-
This is very interesting. I've been studying philosophy, religion, ethical theories and have since learned so much about the myths that make up every religion. I wish more people would take the time to learn about other traditions. I keep an open mind and it has become easier for me to understand, tolerate, and be respectful to what others believe and why. Great topic for discussion. -
Ultimately our experiences with our environments condition us and determine what we do and do not believe.
"A man can surely do what he wills, but he cannot determine what he wills." - Schopenhauer.
-
-
I agree that religion brainwashes people, but I don't believe that there is even a god to find.
-
I think some people do mindlessly follow a religion. I know there are others who study their religion and understand it for themselves, rather than from what someone else has taught them.
I think the same is true for people who don't believe in a religion: some follow what they were taught, while others study their beliefs for greater understanding.-
Angela, you can't steal Nothing Profound's lines. -
Hey, I got here first! You snooze, you lose.
-
-
If religion didn't do it I'm sure they would have found another way to do it. Its all about gaining the control you don't have.-
Who is "they"?
-
Paradoxically, they have no control over trying to gain control they don't have.
-
LOL, I knew Morgan would show up sometime!
-
'They' is any one who want to be 'They'.
-
-
Oh, I see Morgan was here once already.
-
You are like a bear-trap today!
-
I'm sorry, I didn't mean any harm. I was just joking around yesterday.
-
-
Well I am glad to see we have whipped up some conversation here. I believe there is a God, and that we are all Its children. I believe in reincarnation, and that we are all here to learn by the trial and error method known as karma. This method is slow and will take most of us thousands of lifetimes to reach our goal of realizing our true divinity as children of God. Does religion help us in realizing this goal, or do they purposely try to keep us in the dark for their own reasons?
-
they purposely try to keep you in the dark for their own reasons.
-
Belief in reincarnaton would be a case of "spiritual ignorance", as a realistic philosophy - through individuation - shows the unity between (a specific) matter and soul to be substantial. Anything substantial cannot repeat. -
I've always been confused about the doctrine of reincarnation. If we are reincarnated, why haven't human beings in general become better after the thousands of years we've been on the planet? Also, why are there so many more people on the planet now than in the past?
-
angelawd, god works in mysterious ways, we can't even begin to understand. Have faith.
-
Well I'm certainly mystified by reincarnation.
-
-
This is the calmest hornet's nest ever, but yes, you have a point-
The question was asked in a very polite, toned-down, reasonable way. That helps.
-
-
Yes. Religion is for Sheeple, mindless followers who don't want to think for themselves. -
I can't say that religion makes people spiritualy ignorant, because not following any religion, isn't a proof that I know more spiritualy .
My main concern with religion is the fanatism it shows in some of its followers and the way they believe they possess the truth and absolutly wants to convert you to their view.
Fortunatly this is not the case for all religion followers.
I love to talk about Jesus and its teaching, Buddha and its teaching, the wise man in the village and its teaching, but these stays for me teachings, and I think that every single human should makes its own way to its own transcendatal truth.
There are as many paths to the truth as there are individuals. -
it really depends on the person, the greatest man I ever met was in his early stages of development a born again Christian who would stand on fruit boxes and preach redemption. By the end of his life, he had transcended all Faiths and was comfortable with his own God self.
In other cases, faith can be a prison house that prevents questioning because the mind becomes conditioned with an opinion of what God is.
It's really an individual thing, there are benefits for and against religion. What is important is the quest itself. -
I'd say, respect the folks who have religion as an important part of their life, and if that's not for you, then they should respect you as well for going your own way. -
I agree..somewhere the philosophy or respecting each other just faded away!-
Apparently respect is not part of their belief structure. I think respect for each others beliefs dissipates when people start using their specific religious beliefs to justify discriminating against anyone outside of their religion and belief and use their beliefs to justify violence, prejudice, and murder against those outside of their religious beliefs.
-
-
Yes, although I do believe that a church can be helpful in your life if kept to its proper place. I've found the exploration of the holy scriptures, the world, and my own experiences to all be far more powerful tools for finding truth, but a community of faith can be a very good net of relationships and place for healthy dialogue, service, et cetera. churches are mostly for organization in my book.
-
Don't forget, Jeremy, that the bible says the community of other believers is important to encourage us and hold us accountable for our faith. However, this doesn't have to happen inside a church's walls.
-
Not so sure about "accountability," which can, as far as I know from scripture (I'm thinking especially of 1 Corinthians, Luke, John, Matthew, Deuteronomy and Romans) only come from the heart. No one can really hold you accountable because what you do out of fear, social pressure or conformity will be IGNORED BY GOD ("...but have not love, I am nothing" (1 Corinthians 13: 1-3) complimenting "Do not let your left hand know what your right is doing" (Matthew 6:9) and circumcision of the heart (Romans 2:28, Deuteronomy 30: 6, and Ezekiel 11: 9).) But yes, a good community of faith very much does build up your character as a Christian, give you a place to strengthen mind and spirit, a place to organize mission work and build the kind of friendships and relationships in the Lord (including married relationships) that deepen you emotionally instead of making you "comfortably numb" as Pink Floyd would put it.
-
Jeremy, there are bible verses I had in mind when I said we are supposed to hold other Christians accountable for their behavior:
Matthew 18:15-17 "If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother. But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses. If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector."
Galatians 6:1-2 "Brothers, if someone is caught in a sin, you who are spiritual should restore him gently. But watch yourself, or you also may be tempted. Carry each other's burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ."
James 5:16 "Confess your offenses to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The insistent prayer of a righteous person is powerfully effective."
We are also accountable for encouraging each other:
Hebrews 10:24-25 says, "And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds. Let us not give up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but let us encourage one another--and all the more as you see the Day approaching."
There's a number of examples in the book of Acts, describing Paul, Peter, Barnabas, and Silas holding each other accountable. We are all ultimately accountable to God for our own actions, but a community of believers is there to help us and encourage us. Our challenge is to be accountable to each other without becoming judgemental. -
Matthew 18 is primarily about resolving conflict and creating a healthier church community. The reason Christ gives this advice is in case you have been hurt by someones sin in the church (see 1 Corinthians 7.) Notice, it's very practical.
As for the Epistle verses, for the church to even notice these things means that they'd have to be fairly serious. Paul is trying to prevent it from becoming overly judgemental by calling out the exact degree of severity in these behaviors.
In general, it's clear that more important then these is the content of your heart, soul, love and faith. -
I thought that the "Church" was the whole body of believers... like a single organism...
-
@Agit8r: Don't see much basis for "Church" = "church" in the Gospel. In the book of Acts they acted like one under a very particular and dangerous situation, and you see this in the Epistles as well, but nothing about the teachings of Christ would require this to be so except under such conditions, and in fact in some ways this action even bordered on hypocrisy (see Luke 14, John 3 and Matthew 24-25.) By the time Revelations was written, the Church was no longer operating its churches in this manner (though it would recommence similar behavior after Constantine arrives in the 4th century), as you can see in Revelations 2, and while Christ chastises the churches for many things in Revelations, not being the Borg is not among them.
-
I'm just giving you crap JJ
-
Jeremy, I think you and I are saying the same thing, in different ways. My original comment was that the bible says the community of other believers is important to encourage us and hold us accountable for our faith. Both Matthew and the Epistle verses were about handling sins and how important it is to meet with and encourage each other.
With that in mind, I certainly admire your scholarship and your gentle way in handling comments. I enjoy learning from you! -
@angelawd: I guess my point is just that the "accountability" scriptures are not actually talking about that but dealing with serious problems that arise, as you can easilly observe from the handful of times it is implemented (1 Corinthians 7.)
Let me put it to you this way, how often do you tell somebody that if they don't adjust THEIR behavior to YOUR opinion, they will cease being your friend permaneantly (which is what the Matthew passage is talking about, clearly indicating a rather "line in the sand" moment.) I sincerely hope the answer isn't often, and in the context of the rest of Christs teachings (I'm thinking the Merciless servant right now [Matthew 18: 21-35] along with the teachings about love and "the meek shall inherit the earth" from the Sermon on the Mound) an accountability interpretation would be rather out of place. A community of faith is important, but I feel the accountability reading is actually misinterpretation and that the community is supposed to be less about judgement and manipulation (which is inevitably what your "accountability" will become) and more about love and learning, with accountability for that knowledge being the responsibility of the individual person except, as in the case of these scriptures, when dealing with truly destructive individuals who are actually tearing the community apart or actively hurting people or misrepresenting the Gospel. -
I do see your point,Jeremy. These verses do tell us it is important to talk with it out someone who wrongs us, but also to deal with sinfulness in a congregation (especially with leaders). With difficult bible passages, such as the entire chapter of Matthew 18. Taken as a whole, it is all about the life and discipline of the Christian community. As additional information, a bible commentary written by biblacl scholars can also shed a lot of light on a topic. Here's one of my favorite sites: www.biblos.com. If you'd like, we can take this discussion off-post and explore the commentary together.
I agree that we shouldn't tell somebody that they need to adjust THEIR behavior to OUR opinion (that's neither biblical nor loving). Instead, we are supposed to help them measure behavior as related to the bible. So for a real-life example, suppose a close friend was having an affair with a married person. The loving and biblical action would be to talk to the person privately about what you have seen, and urge them to look with you at what the bible says about this behavior. This means we're not judging - we're letting God's word speak to the person's actions.
I completely agree that living a loving, Christ-centered life is our primary goal, but we must not neglect our responsibility to our fellow believers, and we must not ignore the encouragement we could be receiving from them.
-
-
when I was religious, I didn't believe in the concept of church and joining together in worship because I felt each person had their own unique relationship with whatever god, and needed to follow their own path. Is that sort of what you mean? -
I think wrapping your individual philosophy up in a religion abnegates your self awareness in the same way that hitching your political views to a party divorces you from being truly independent. Religions imply heirarchy, doctrine and a host of other impediments to true spiritual fulfillment.-
I agree. It restricts you and puts you in a box.
-
You only hitch yourself to a political party if you care about it.
-
Hi laurencefosgate, I think you have something there, thanks for your views.
-
-
I didnt think so... and never thought that religions have been brain washed us
For me myself, my religion that lead and guide me and probably all humanity towards the right path.
But I respect what other ppl think about -
i believe in religion...but more than that i believe in one god...i dont refer to a particular person or something like that but one power which handles each and everything in this universe...i dont know where it is and where its from but ya i do believe in it.. -
Most people anthropomorhize God, even if they deny it. The idea that you can pray to "him," (notice how we give "him" gender) and somehow believe that "he" has a "plan," these are nothing but humans projecting themselves onto a superhuman they call God. Michelangelo got it right when he showed God on the Sistine Chapel ceiling, most people, consciously or unconsciously think of God as an old wise man floating around up in the sky running the universe with some kind of heavenly control box. Not very evolved thinking, but that's it.
-
As pure Act (Being in Act), "God" cannot be made of matter and "form".
-
This is so true!
-
-
No. The media has made us all spritually ignorant.-
I heartily agree!
-
Even the Publishing Companies? The Bible, Leon Tolstoy, C.S. Lewis, and all the other great thinkers who were also disciples of Christ, now mass-produced and available in paperback to even the poorest believer, seem to be coming to my mind...
-
Since you're gettin' all specific on me, the media that makes us spiritually ignorant is part of pop culture - the watered-down or hostile images of religion we see on TV, in movies, many magazines, and pop fiction. For every Leo Tolstoy, there's about 5 Dan Browns publishing pseudo-historic fiction and calling it "the real truth about XXX religion."
-
@angelawd: Oh come now, the only people who take those books seriously are those already so lost in their bigotries that only a "Road to Damascus" moment will pull them back.
-
*snort* You're right!
-
-
You get out of religion what you make out of it. Some people turn it into intimidation and stone throwing, some into kindness and forgiveness.-
So religion is a "tool" to argument in a sense or another.
-
...and some turn it in to an exploration of truth, community, faith, hope and love, whatever that entails.
@angelshair: It's a form of philosophy if that's what you mean, but saying "tool" to argument is kind of dirty in its connotations. Let's face it, we all need our glasses to see through, darkly. -
I am always happy to see how you extract something so profound out of the simplest idea. You consistently put a lie to your name. And your words are like soothing herbal tea, they simmer down the brain.
-
-
I don't do religion -
correct. I would rather now take my bible, read and understand what my God is telling me. So no one will confuse me again! thanks for this discussion -
Sorry I have been away for so long but I had to work. I am very happy with this open discussion we have going on. Some of you I agree with, some not so much. It is not a matter of what I think, spirituality begins and ends with each of you. It is what you make as truth that will affect your lives. Be open minded, and don't be afraid to remove the blinders that the religion you grew up with has put on you. I grew up a Catholic and I know how hard it can be. I put my personal experiences when I was young on my web site. If you are so inclined I hope you will check it out. It is called "Kreskin's ESP Kit and Beyond" Let me know what you think. Peace to you all, Mike
-
We need better information to make important decisions regarding ones salvation. The question is, how dose one start the journey? -
We need better information to make important decisions regarding ones salvation. The question is, how dose one start the journey?
Add Your Comment
Login to leave a message.
