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Have you been hurt by Credit Card companies?!
Posted by wildfxp • 3/22/08 • Subscribe to this Discussion [RSS] • Report This Topic
Topics: balances, credit card, credit line, debt
I recently did a post about credit cards and how the companies behind it are evil. I would just like to know how many people have had problems with credit cards in the past? What I'm asking is debt, late payments, etc.
You could also take a look at my post here:
bloggin-ads.com/battle-credit-card-companies-and-win
-Mike
User Comments
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Oh you are a guy with a sexy woman's avatar. Now we know you are "one of those..." -
Oh please, I could fill your blog with the evils of credit card companies! Doing cute bait and switch promotions, having charge disputes forwarded to an answering machine that never gets answered, refusing to accept payments, only to come back years later with a whopping outstanding balance, sending bills to collections immediately, raking in late fees because they keep crediting payments to the wrong account....
Should I go on? -
I've never really had problems with credit cards =P. I pay the balance off full every time, and even if I forget they give me enough leeway to pay it off next time around. I could understand if you had credit cards from some lessor known banking companies, but the major banks shouldn't have that much of an issue with I think.-
I find it's the ones that are used by department stores that cause the most trouble...not so much actual credit cards.
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Xight, it would be nice if that were true, but in fact many major banks now employ universal default provisions, which means that if you are late on a single payment to ANOTHER company they can raise your interest rate to 29.9% (or in some cases, even higher). Congressional inquiries have recently questioned the practices of, among others, Chase Manhattan Bank, and Washington Mutual settled a government suit a few years ago that alleged (among other things) that the company was shredding payment checks so as to be able to apply late charges to accounts that would have been current had the checks been credited in a timely manner.
Anyone interested in this issue should Google Elizabeth Warren; she's a Harvard Law Professor who has studied and written extensively on credit card company practices. -
Also there is another aspect of I believe Chase - but I could be wrong (What are other banks that start with C?)...but they tell their customers what they can and can't use that credit card/debit to purchase - such as using the card to make a payment over the phone. I've now heard from several sources that even if you have a debit card sponsored by that bank and you want to say, pay a credit card bill over the phone (or even online) they won't allow the transaction to go through.
Even if it's a credit card - which I could kind of understand limits on - a personal debit card? No way. A bank should not be able to tell you what you can and can't use your card for. Or your money, for that matter.
Most people think I'm nuts when I tell them this, but my hubby and I have removed ourselves from the credit/debt industry period. After fighting credit card companies for the better part of three years because of ID theft - we will no longer use ANY credit cards, and refuse to indebt ourselves to these banks whatsoever. Whatever we want, we save and pay cash.
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No, I use credit cards the way they are meant to be used, and I've reaped a lot of benefits for doing so.
Credit can be very rewarding, if you know how to play the game well.
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That is true, Chelle--I actually knew a woman who bought a mobile home on a credit card and then used balance transfers and introductory rates to move it around while she paid it off without ever paying a dime in interest. Unfortunately, many people--especially those who are most vulnerable--don't understand that there's a "game" going on and take things at face value that come back to bite them.
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I did too, for a very long time. I know the reason I won't even touch them anymore is because of what happened to me.
Credit companies and banks are swell so long as everything is in good standing, but one slip up or mistake...Once something goes wrong, the companies practically turn on you. All that jargon about being able to work with the companies and get reasonable solutions (whether it's your fault or not) is bull. Unless of course you're extraordinarily wealthy but hey
Basically what I'm saying is that if you use credit - watch your butt. I mean really really watch it. If your purse gets stolen, fax the company the police report - and then call and check to make sure they've canceled the cards - several times.
If you see a strange purchase - get to the bottom of it quickly - and talk to a manager, not a regular worker.
I'm not trying to preach - but take it from me - I went from a credit score of nearly 800 to nothing but absolute treachery and uphill battles and a credit score that couldn't win a door prize at the church bazaar. -
Anok, that's rough.
You are right, though, cash is always king.
We are fortunate in that we've had an excellent financial advisor helping us for years, and we learned early on the advantage of planning well ahead and having a nice emergency cash reserve for when the bumps in the road come along.
We pay our balances on our CC's in full every month, and we don't spend beyond what we can afford each month because frankly, we don't need to.
Unfortunately, credit cards are abused and misused by consumers far more than the credit card companies and banks abuse and misuse their customers.
I'm not saying that some of the banks aren't difficult and sometimes unfair, and I'm sure there are isolated cases of abuse, but far too many people use credit before they are in a financially secure position to do so.
I know it sounds harsh, but I am all for people taking personal responsibility for their own mistakes. It is up to each individual to educate themselves about these things long before they begin to play the credit game.
I can understand why some people feel like they are being abused by the banking system, but just like with the subprime mortgage mess we are seeing, I feel that it is ultimately the consumer's responsibility for which direction things go since they are the ones who took the gamble and signed their name on the dotted line.
I know, I'm mean.
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I certainly understand the misuse of credit - no doubt, some people are just irresponsible. But credit companies have begun to overstep their bounds, and engage in activities that are less than ethical.
If someone calls a card in stolen, they have to cancel it. If they don't and unauthorized purchases are made, they the company are responsible for those charges - and yet they stone wall and harass their customers (or ruin their lives), instead of A) doing their job properly in the first place or B) Dealing with the problem properly as it arrives on their desk.
This happens far more than most people realize, too. Just look at the complaints on the BBB website about banks like Citizens bank. They are too numerous to count, and it's all at the hands of the bank. That damn bank got $2K of my money in fees alone when they should never had allowed the purchases in the first place because the damn card was stolen!
Other "fun" company activities include swapping or switching account numbers - I've had this happen to me, from two different places (this is the reason I no longer pay bills online, by the way). You make your payments, on time, to the account you've always had. The company has gone through a change of some sort and has changed your account information, but failed to update that online. They credit the old account, which no longer exists, and then it takes a full billing cycle for it to get corrected, costing you late fees and higher percentage rates. Of course, you can get these things reversed, but it practically takes an act of Congress.
Another fun one, send customer accounts directly into collections. Instead of getting your first bill, you get a nasty gram and a whopping $40 fee. Get it corrected OK, it happens again and again. The company now has "flagged" you account. Go to pay the bill in full? Nope, sorry we can't take your payment at this time! We can't take a check or card over the phone, you can't pay online or in the store either! Sorry! They all but deny every legal, reasonable way to pay the bill and then slam you with fees for not paying. o_0
There are just so many issues out there, and it really isn't just about consumers buying more than they can afford.
I know you say you're mean...but I agree with you to an extent. On the other hand these companies absolutely prey on the poor, or the desperate and they really do have some ethics they need to be upholding.
Take the sub prime mortgage crisis - OK, lets say you want a house, You want a house so bad it hurts. You have a decent job, but not fantastic. You run into a lender or bank that says, hey - we can get you into a house that you can afford, only thus and such a month, no money down! They guarantee it, you buy it. Then they slam you with hidden fees and costs. The average person cannot and should not be expected to know every little thing about this industry.
It's really a scam. Of course, it backfired badly - but hey! -
I know what you mean on managing credit cards. There are soo many of them out there, that if you do it right you can pay for a car in full, and then sign up for introductory offers with 0% interest/$0 annual fee, and rotate it out to avoid interest payments. It also looks good on your credit report =P. I paid for new computers doing that without ever having to pay for interest. House payments though, that's kind of ballsy.
I always see people buying stuff they don't need on credits cards. They get into debt, and the stuff they buy they don't even use 4 months later. A big waste of money if you ask me. Maybe its just the way I was brought up about credit cards. Was always told to pay it off in full. That way you know how much your spending, and know if you can afford it or not.
-MadameX - Yea I've never really paid attention to the interest rates. I've always thought them absurd. The interest rates never get applied to me since I'm either using 0% interest cards, or pay it off in full. However I do see how 1 late payment, and an increase interest rate by that much would be pretty harsh if you were pretty far in debt.
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Anok - "OK, lets say you want a house, You want a house so bad it hurts..."
People wanting things they don't really need, and more importantly, can't really afford, is what gets those very people in trouble to begin with. Of course the banks are going to do what they can to 'scam' people, it is the nature of the beast, but again, people confuse want with need so they make themselves easy targets and a LOT of them cry "victim" later.
What we all truly *need* is (a) comprehensive education early on with our children (with an real emphasis on the differences between want and need), and (b) stricter regulations on the banking industry that are heavily enforced.
The former is going to do much more in the long run than the latter, given the politics of things. No need to go into detail on that aspect of it with you, obviously.
I'd be preachin' to the choir. -
It's not that cut and dry Chelle. We don't have to stop dreaming for the things we want simply because we cannot afford them, at that moment in time.
When a company or anyone offers you a great deal on something you're just dying to have and present as something you can actually afford (and who says a person doesn't need a house? everyone needs a home and often times it's actually more affordable to own your own than pay rent at twice the price), are you honestly saying that they shouldn't be tempted? That if someone said, hey you can own your own home for the same price as your rent or less...that it would be irresponsible to look into it, and yes even take the bait if they are very good (at scamming)?
These banks put these dreams within people's reach...it's not as if a person just way over borrowed and new they wouldn't be able to make a single payment.
Are you saying that folks shouldn't be given the opportunity to make their dreams come true? That just because they don't strictly "need" a home (though who is really capable of making that judgment call?) even if it is presented that they can afford it, they should abstain altogether, just 'coz? Who gets to own a home then, only the rich?
We're not talking about a pair of useless Prada shoes here either...or a second, useless car, or a boat. Or even a big screen TV. We are talking about the ability to own something that provides shelter and comfort without being at the mercy of a landlord - who may or may not provide any modicum of safety or security. A tenant with a family could get tossed on their butt with no where to go faster than you can say eviction in some cases.
As far as the small print goes, I think that garydenness explained that pretty well. Legit banks and lenders have legalease that is hard enough to interpret, a lender with something to hide will surely hide it even better. Although hiring an attorney is a great idea - you have to be able to afford to keep one on retainer and quite frankly most people don't have that kind of cash or regular need for one. Nor would a regular person even think that something could go so wrong, not in an environment such as this.
I almost got snagged by one of those subprime lenders myself. The ID theft is actually the reason we didn't get a mortgage (coz our downpayment was stolen!). In retrospect, it's a good thing we didn't go for it at the time. The lender was legit as far as I could knew (I had done some research), we were approved (I was also preggers, and we lived in a neighborhood where drive by shooting were a regular occurrence, and rents everywhere else were the same as a mortgage payment anyway. We just figured if we're going to move, and pay through the nose, why not own our own?). We both had good jobs, and money in the bank. We were happy, ecstatic as first time home buyers!
Then, disaster! We opted not to get a house at that moment. That lender company, along with several others, went down in flames. They were lending to people they KNEW were a financial risk. Where is the responsibility on the part of the lenders?
But had the ID theft not happened, I too would have signed, and who knows what would have happened? I'm certainly no dumb-dumb, but I was hooked too. The issue just isn't as cut and dry as "you spent too much", or you weren't paying close enough attention.
These banks and lenders are acting irresponsibly for the sake of a greasy buck, and it isn't just those who got scammed or burned that are paying the price for these company's greed, either. They have a huge advantage over the consumers...
Otherwise I agree with everything else you said
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Also, "Then they slam you with hidden fees and costs. The average person cannot and should not be expected to know every little thing about this industry."
The thing is, when you buy a house, these little "hidden" fees and costs are right there in the papers you sign. Hire an attorney to look over it if you don't feel competent, but don't blame the bank if you sign a loan without going over it and knowing what you are getting yourself into.
The "average person" is better educated than we give them credit for and there really are few examples I've seen where I genuinely feel sorry for the borrower.-
A couple of points relevant to this I'd like to mention, regards UK banks.
Firstly, is a law that requires contracts and T&C's to be written in 'plain English'. This is because banks (and of course many other orgs) have in the past, and some still do, use language in a way to not only confuse, but also to deliberately be ambiguous for their future benefit.
Secondly, in the UK, a test case has recently taken place (final judgement waited) regarding banks charges. By law a penalty charge can only reflect the cost to the bank of the 'offense'. Charging £30 for a customer going 1p over their limit is unlawful. When this was pointed out, the banks responded by changing the wording from 'penalty charge' to 'service fee' thereby taking the matter away from the jurisdiction of the OFT.
Yeah right. Next time my car gets clamped, no doubt's I'll be charged a service fee. If I end up in court on a DUI charge, I'll be charged a 'service fee'. And in my next game of footy, if I foul someone in the penalty area they'll be awarded a 'service kick'.... -
Next time your car gets clamped? In court for DUI? Hmmm..
Believe me, I know they will screw you at every opportunity which is why less credit card use is better. Having credit does not mean you *need* to use it.
Of course, once it is extended to you, you are free to use it if you *want* to.
Then you have to take responsibility for the risk involved. -
The point is that risks have been introduced which should not be there.
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Hey, well hookers have STD's so I guess you blame them if you get one? The risk is there hehe.
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Hookers aren't regulated institutions listed on the FTSE or Cac40
Besides, she promised me she was clean. If she'd just told the truth, in plain English, I wouldn't have got so upset, or drank so much and got caught DUI. Or come back after I got released to find my car clamped..
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I don't use credit cards anymore. The problem is also the person using the credit card(s). I agree they are evil though.-
All plastic is evil.
It should have never been invented to begin with!
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Just one more word on the subject - because it really is a huge issue for me, personally. Years ago I had a much different opinion about banking, credit, lending, borrowing etc...in fact, my opinion was almost exactly the same as Chelle's.
However, after actually experiencing the nightmares that I have over the last few years - my opinion has changed almost completely. It's one of those things that I honestly believe most people don't even think about unless they've experienced it first hand. When you go from being a normal person - not over spending, but certainly using credit, accustomed to working within the system and dealing with what seems like rational, ethical businesses - to being a person who winds up getting victimized or at the very least being utterly stomped on by the very same companies, and then some....you feel like you're living in the twilight zone.
It opened my eyes to an entire world of discrimination, predatory practices, and outright illegal and unethical practices that I swore up and down only existed for people who lived beyond their means, or were irresponsible, or were outright liars.
It was the final straw that broke the link to normal societal views, and put me in the seat of becoming a full blown Anarchist.
Seriously!-
Well, I understand in cases of ID theft it can be difficult, a long time ago we put preventative measures in place to keep it from happening to us and believe me, it has worked. I can not open a credit account without jumping through hoops (that I purposefully set in place).
We live in a world where everything we need to know to protect our financial assets is available right at our fingertips.
I am not so ignorant to believe that this applies across the board, or that it is always cut and dry. What bothers me is to see otherwise intelligent people blame the banks and the "system" for things that are partially, if not fully, their own doing.
With the housing market, I will argue your stance there. Before the housing bubble, there were plenty of places where renting was cheaper than owning and considering a lot of these ARM's are adjusting to eyeball-popping levels, and the prices of housing at the levels they are, it can hardly be argued that it is cheaper to buy than rent even now.
The problem is, most people look at the monthly payments and think, well that's cheaper than rent. Ha! The maintenance fees, taxes, and other costs that go with owning a home can be so astronomical and I'm not saying that people shouldn't want to own a home, but no, they don't need to until they can afford everything that comes with it.
There are plenty of rentals available and if it is in an undesirable area, then the best advice I can give is to do everything you can to move to something better. People can, and do, all the time. That is the beauty of America, especially.
Believe me, we started out our lives together with literally nothing and worked our way out of one of the worst crime cities in California to get where we are, and it took us years to reach our goal of owning the home we own so this comes from experience.
Again, I am not saying this applies in every case, but the majority of people have no business having a credit card let alone owning a home. -
With regards to ID protection at your fingertips - you are right to an extent. it isn't necessarily the protection that is the problem - it's when that protection fails that the serious problems begin, and no amount of technology helps in that area. My attorney is still fighting the ID theft as we speak (well, OK not as we speak since it's the weekend LOL) - the process is so long and completely frustrating and NOT geared towards helping the victim whatsoever. Corporations and companies really don't give a rats ass, they'll put up whatever fight they can to get their pound of flesh - even if you don't owe them a penny.
I don't know, Chelle, I think we are going to have to agree to disagree here. While I agree on the credit card bit (I think credit should be abolished), I disagree that people have no business owning a home. That sets up the classist caste system that I abhor with a passion. Everyone has the right to be secure in their homes - if only the richest people have business owning a home, then they will control the poor. It isn't the people that need to change, but rather the corporations and businesses that need to change.
I've been privy to too many predatory practices now to even remotely believe that the system isn't utterly to blame. I have zero faith in any large corporation because I have yet to find one that hasn't been part and parcel to unethical, illegal, or predatory business practices.
RE, rent: In the last ten years where I live the average rent went from $400-$600 per month to $2k per month. It's gone back a down a bit - we pay the bargain basement price of $1200 per month, now.
But moving and renting, no that isn't anywhere near as easy as people make it out to be. We've been at the mercy of landlords now for years....and when one has lost their credit standing, or the ability to grab a decent paying job - you are subjected to horrid landlords. I'd rather pay the insurance (which renters pay for anyway, for the record) and taxes then deal with this crap. We could be evicted for any number of reasons - at the whim of the landlord, and having nothing to do with our standing as a tenant. (Been through that!).
I also don't understand why people think that renters don't pay for these fees? The fees are passed onto the renter - and if you are not in a large complex you are paying a mortgage, plus tax, plus insurance (plus renter's insurance) plus maintenance, plus water bills, plus utilities (on your own, or if meters are shared - you pay an estimated price) plus parking (depending on where you live), plus you pay for any damages/repairs that aren't covered in the lease. Plus securities too! I live in a duplex - so between the two tenants we not only pay enough to cover all those expenses but also enough to net a profit for the landlord.
Thats a lot of cash that we are getting nothing in return for! All that money gets us exactly no equity, no assets, no nothing of value. We can't sell the house and move - all that money is gone.
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OK, we can agree to disagree but I will say this, I know plenty of landlords who barely break even and not all of them should be in that game, either. This is how we end up with a lot of these bad landlords to begin with.
I know the system sucks, but it is what it is. We live in a country where it really seems unfair but there are plenty of places where it is much worse and where their citizens don't have a prayer of a chance to own a home.
Also, I know it seems illogical but it is a bit different paying a monthly rent payment of $1200 and knowing if the roof needs replacing, you don't have to fork over $10-30k for the work RIGHT NOW. It isn't your responsibility.
If you get termites, and the cost to repair it is $50k or more, you don't have to worry a bit about it RIGHT NOW. Again, not your problem.
If it floods and you lose everything, well at least you don't have to worry about how to pay for the massive repair costs if you own your home, because you can't get flood insurance. Yet again, you can walk away and start over without the burden of ownership or the cost involved.
We rented for years and right now our house would rent for exactly what our house payment is, without the extra burden of maintenance or all the high stress risk involved.
Some days I wish we had the freedom of being renters again!
Hell, some days I wish I still lived with my parents and they paid all the bills. -
I can't even get the landlord to put traps in the basement for the mice, or properly deal with the electrical bits in the house much less fix the rotting roof! (I literally got knocked in the head from the shingles flying off of it in the last storm).
Of course, it isn't very often one needs to fix an entire roof, or get rid of termites (some families never have to do that) and of course, you do have the equity in the house to pay for it or you can DIY, or if it's from storm damage the insurance will pay for it. (Or a portion of it, depending on your policy).
As it stands, I do all the maintenance here anyway. We get $300 a month off our rent for doing the repairs, yard maintenance, renovations (which we pay for), landlord responsibilities (such as approving the work of anyone contracted to fix or deliver products, anything but the cost which has to be approved by the landlord, collecting the rent money etc). We have to buy our own tools, etc to fix everything...so we are basically doing it anyway. We just don't have to refinance or take equity out for major repairs. *shrug*
I guess that kind of responsibility doesn't bother me one bit though. Because right now, if something breaks I have to wait for the landlord to approve the repairs (cost wise), if they approve it at all, whereas if I owned it I could either fix it immediately, or later...but at least it's my choice. I do not like being at the whim of other people. Particularly stingy people LOL!
I guess though, that my point is that everyone can't be renters. Someone has to own the homes, and if we leave it in the hands of only those who have the business (re, the money) to do it, we are putting ourselves into the position of becoming modern day serfs. Which I do not like.
Edited to add: those problems are my problems though. If the landlord can't afford or refuses to make those repairs you talked about I'M the one who has to live with it, not them. I'm the one who has to deal with a leaking roof, no water, or termites. Not the landlord, as they don't live here. And aside from some nasty grams from the state the landlord really doesn't have to do squat about it, either. (Learned that from experience too) -
Anok, I'm speechless.
He is getting a hell of a deal if you are responsible for all repairs for just $300 off the rent. That is $3,600 a year for him and probably far less than what should be invested for upkeep on his end. If you consider what he'd pay per hour for workers alone....
Not a good deal at all.
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That is what I'm saying though, Chelle. We are at the mercy of the landlord. Because of the delicate position we're in we really have little choice in the matter. If we were to say, be evicted - we'd have no where to go. (Due to the credit rating problems from the ID theft actually getting into an apartment right now would put us into a worse situation, as only the less than reputable places would even consider us, even though we are excellent tenants)
Although I don't think we would be evicted for no reason, because the landlord is getting a massive bang for their buck....but still. If we didn't have that deal going for us, even at the minimal rate that it is, our rent would become high enough to strain our finances too much.
So it's either we do a lot of work for peanuts, and still pay a high rent....or it's back to crackhouse alley for us, or I suppose we could live in our cars....
That said, of course we are working to get ourselves to a maneuvering point, but it will be years before we can actually do anything about our situation.
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Wow, this is getting to become a heck of a discussion! Anyways, I think if you purchase something big and use balance transfer to move things around, it's better to make sure you don't spend it, but use it on the important things first.
-Mike -
Anyone else have different experiences?
-Mike -
I've never owned a credit card. I do my best to not spend money I don't have. -
I don't have Credit cards. -
I'm starting to think I shouldn't own any credit cards either They're evil..., but they do get you whatever you want
-Mike -
Use it to get miles and rewards. We pay our credit card balance every month so no we do not pay interests. -
Jojo - I used to do that until I had unexpected finance problems with my wife, so we had to get some 0% cards. I love getting rewards from the cards though
-Mike -
i myself got into very bad shape and had to use a settlement company to get out. Alot of people critized my actions that i ripped them off, but in all actuallity, I still paid more than i charged. for example, i had one i charged 2,000 on started out 10% interest after i charged it went to 25% for no reason i was always on time never late. 5 years later still was paying that bill when i went through the settlement company they settled for 1,000.00 so figure what i paid them for 5 years usually atleast 100.00 a month. after my settlement stuff was over i vowed i would never use credit again. unfortunately i had to last summer to install a furnace so i have been starving trying to pay it off. It makes me literally ill to have to use credit.
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