Discussions
Help! Insight on Muslim/Islamic Beliefs and Culture Lost
Posted by Norski • 12/03/08 • Subscribe to this Discussion [RSS] • Report This Topic
Topics: Belief, conflict, custom, Islam, muslim
Sometime recently (anywhere from a few days to several months ago), I ran into a statement that Islamic / Muslim culture very specifically discouraged discussion.
Normally, I dismiss this sort of thing: but this wasn't an anti-Muslim rant.
As I recall, the idea was this:
In order to prevent bloodshed over differing ideas, The Prophet picked up an existing custom of avoiding unpleasant topics, and put it in the Quran.
That approach worked for several centuries. Now, however, faced with a culture which has the habit of presenting data to back up a viewpoint, the Islamic 'we don't talk about that/how dare you talk about that' response gives the impression of being rather close-minded.
Actually, according to this statement, Muslims are following a custom and teaching that was intended to avoid unnecessary bloodshed.
That shed a whole new light on how many Muslims and Islamic groups react to criticism, or discussion, of their beliefs or actions. Unhappily, I didn't record where I found it - and can't find it now.
Can anyone tell me where how much, if any, truth there is in this statement?
Thanks in advance.
User Comments
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"In order to prevent bloodshed over differing ideas, The Prophet picked up an existing custom of avoiding unpleasant topics, and put it in the Quran."
The Holy Quran is the word of almighty Allah. no man- prophet (peace be upon him) or any one else can not and will not put his own words in the quran (if he is a true believer) ...-
plz, can you explain the DISCUSSION QUESTION? i mean, what was the DQ?
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Thanks for responding.
I'd better clarify a few things here.- I do not intend to insult
- Islam
- The Holy Quran
- Muslims
- I am trying to learn a little about Islam, and Muslim beliefs and practices
- I am not a Muslim
- I am trying to learn about Islamic beliefs and practices
For the sake of clarity, I'll continue in another reply. - I do not intend to insult
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A spirit (like a messenger) carried the massages from Allah to The Prophet Muhammad (p b u h). the prophet (p b u h) then quoted those massages to his selected followers who wrote it down (as quoted). NO CHANGES/ALTERATIONS WERE MADE IN THE PROCESS.
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I will try to re-phrase the discussion question.
First:
I have read a statement, which I can no longer find, which went something like this:
In order to prevent bloodshed over differing ideas, The Prophet picked up an existing custom of avoiding unpleasant topics, and put it in the Quran.
That statement may or may not be true.
I don not know if it is true, or if it is not true.
It obviously, from your response, that the statement makes an assumption about the activities of The Prophet which are not accurate.
I still have this question:
Is there a custom, or rule, or law, or other injunction, in Islam, which restricts or prohibits asking questions about beliefs?
I hope this helps - and I hope to get a response. -
"Is there a custom, or rule, or law, or other injunction, in Islam, which restricts or prohibits asking questions about beliefs?"
ans: if you are talking about asking questions about our (muslim's) believes then the ans would be...No, there is no rule, custom, or law in islam which prohibits asking questions about beliefs. by asking questions we can clarify a lot of things and thats a good thing. right? and i think, by asking questions about our believes, getting to know muslims, a non-muslim can become "attracted". so NO, there is no law prohibiting asking questions about OUR believes.
if u r talking about other religions: islam stricktly prohibits INSULTING other religions/believes. the questions asked about other's believes should not be to insult them...
i hope i made myself clear.
i'd be happy to answer (atleast i'll try) any questions you've got -
irtiza104,
About your reply that starts with: " 'Is there a custom, or rule, or law, ...' "
You made yourself quite clear. And, what you wrote matches quite well what I've read about Islamic culture and beliefs, pre-9/11. Even better, it matches very well the sort of responses and comments I've read from a number of your fellow-Muslims here on BlogCatalog.
We're in agreement, I think, that asking questions is extremely important to learning. And, I wish that more people of every belief would take the idea of respect to heart.
Thank you very much. -
you are welcome
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i hope i'm not just talking to myself here....
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Me, too.
Thanks for responding. I'm working, and can't monitor this thread as closely as I might.
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I heard that in the Quran there was a statement that actually read something to the effect of " Kill the jews like dogs" is there any truth to this? I had a friend who told me he opened the Quran out of being curious and found that. I'd like to know if he was being truthful.-
I'm a Christian - Catholic, specifically - and haven't yet verified whether the copy of the Quran I have from my father's collection is a decent translation. So, on two counts, I wouldn't try to answer to the veracity of your friend's statement.
My opinion, based on parallel situations with non-Christians discussing the Christian Bible, is that your friend may have pulled a statement out of the Quran without understanding its context.
But, what do I know?
I sincerely hope that someone with a more informed viewpoint than mine comes along to answer you. I'm rather curious, myself, now. -
though i have read the quran, i have never read its translation (the main copy is in arabic). so about the JEWS statement, i dont know whether it's true or false. i'll let you know later after confirming if i can.
BUT please make sure that the copy of quran you have is genuine. and reading just one line in the quran may create misconseptions. you have to read the whole paragraph or even better the whole quran to fully understand the true meaning.
and please double check WHAT WAS THE EXACT QUOTATION if you can.
peace -
irtiza104,
Referring to "...make sure that the copy of quran you have is genuine...."
I'm somewhat concerned about the quality of an English translation of the Quran I have.
I recently found a copy of the Quran in my father's books. It's an English translation. The title page reads, in part, "The Koran Commonly Called the Alkoran of Mohammed" translated into English from the Arabic by George Sale ... A. L. Burt Company, Publishers, New York.
This book is undated, but my guess is that it's a reprint of a translation of Al-Qur'an done by a George Sale around the time of the American Revolution. (There's more about that George Sale translation at www.gutenberg.org/etext/7440 .)
My questions: Is this 'George Sale' translation of the Quran adequate and fairly accurate?; is there any way of verifying that an English translation of the Quran is 'genuine?'
I'd love to read the Quran in Arabic - but I know only a few words of that language. -
if you want to verify (i am glad that you want to) you must ask someone with a little more knowledge about the translation of the holy quran. i'll not able to help you in this matter iguess. i'm sorry.
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GAMERM, i have your answer:
"I heard that in the Quran there was a statement that actually read something to the effect of " Kill the jews like dogs" is there any truth to this?"
answer: Allah says, not to kill anyone, even if he is of other religions. so KILL JEWS LIKE DOGS cant be his words, can it?
(but if the very existence of islam is at stake, only to keep the existence of islam, one can fight in the name of Allah, which is called- jihad)
(no one can fight and kill for jealousy/rage/anger/greed )
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Please don't/avoid put any wrong Quran info statement....-
i didnt put any wrong statements here about the Allah or the quran. but if you are talking about the JEWS question: "you cant learn if u dont ask"
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Thanks, ya, because I'm Jewish and since my friend said that I was wondering if the Muslim religion itself encourages killing Jews. I believe you might be right about taking it out of context. Id like a person who follows the faith and has read the Quran to give insight about it.
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look up
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I have read the Quran and shockingly enough there actually is a lot of bad things said about Jews in it. I Have asked why and the reason given is that the Quran is God speaking to The Prophet Mohamed . God tells the prophet Mohamed he is upset with the Jewish people because they had lost their holy book given to Mosses and were not abiding by Gods law. Which is why God had to send the Quran to Mohamed to straighten out the mess.
I must just say that my family are Jewish. My husband comes from a Moroccan Jewish family his family lived amongst Arab Muslim families here in Morocco for many hundreds of years quite happily as did many other Safadic Jews all over the Arab world. The Jews where welcomed into Morocco many hundreds of years ago when they were expelled from Europe by the Catholics.
It is only recently since the partition of Palestine that there has been any problems between these two great religions. I know many Muslims and none of them believe that it is OK to kill Jews they just want this terrible situation in Israel sorted and the holy sites and land given back to the Muslims.
I am also British and I believe that the British made a terrible mess of the world when they decided to partition countries like India and Pakistan, Northern and Southern Ireland and Palestine which have all become hot beds for terrorist organisations ever since.-
"It is only recently since the partition of Palestine that there has been any problems between these two great religions"
i cant give the specifics, but i know that in the past muslims and jews didnt get along so well either...
*i have nothing against any religion. just for the sake of this discussion*
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Please you really need to be a bit more exact on your information. When and where, has there ever been any major problems before in Muslim Jewish history?
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Thank you for clarifying the Jew question about the Quran, but I'd have to disagree with your statement that the land is Palestine. It is truly Israel, given to the Jewish people by the lord. Lets not debate about that however because I have had It so many times and it is endless.
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XPAT, i'll get back to you after a little research.
peace -
Gamerm, your question was "I heard that in the Quran there was a statement that actually read something to the effect of " Kill the jews like dogs" is there any truth to this?"
i dont think that you have your answer yet. -
GAMERM, i have your answer:
"I heard that in the Quran there was a statement that actually read something to the effect of " Kill the jews like dogs" is there any truth to this?"
answer: Allah says, not to kill anyone, even if he is of other religions. so KILL JEWS LIKE DOGS cant be his words, can it?
(but if the very existence of islam is at stake, only to keep the existence of islam, one can fight in the name of Allah, which is called- jihad)
(no one can fight and kill for jealousy/rage/anger/greed ) -
irtiza104,
Your very brief description of a principle: "(but if the very existence of islam is at stake, only to keep the existence of islam, one can fight in the name of Allah, which is called- jihad)
"(no one can fight and kill for jealousy/rage/anger/greed )"
That sounds a little like the the Catholic Church's Just War doctrine.
A difficulty these days seems to be that some people seem to regard inappropriate attire, and other deviations from their own view of what Islam is all about, as an assault on Islam which demands an armed response.
Which probably goes to show that any idea can be twisted. -
killing innocent men and women is now way near anything islamic...
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irtiza104,
About "killing innocent men and women is now way near anything islamic..."
I've heard and read people who follow Islam say this often enough: and I think those people are stating their beliefs very accurately, as I think you are. Your statements also match what I've read about the 'five pillars' and other aspects of Islamic belief.
On the other hand, organizations like Al Qaeda and the Taliban seem to think that they're Muslims, and that they're defending Islam.
I seldom assume that, when people back up statements of their beliefs with action, that they are not accurately stating their beliefs. If that assumption applies to members of Al Qaeda, and also to the people who have contributed to this thread, there seem to be at least two "Islams:" One, which endorses reasonable behavior; Another, which endorses a very strict dress code, among other things, and backs up its endorsement with bombs and swords.
In this thread, and elsewhere, I've tried to distinguish between beliefs such as the ones you state, and those which others act out.
These two radically different visions of "Islam" has been a source of considerable interest to me.
In case a reader wants to see more of how I see the faces of Islam, see
'Will the Real Islam, Please Stand Up?' (February 6, 2008) ( anotherwaronterrorblog.blogspot.com/2008/02/will-real-islam-please-stand-up... ). -
dear friend, let me be very clear: THERE'S ONLY ONE 'ISLAM'. Al qaeda, taleban, W. Bush, irtiza104 can do whatever they like but this will not change the true meaning of ISLAM. there's only one islam and one guide line for the TRUE muslims, which is the Holy Qur'an.
today i can say that, "there's no need to pray 5 times from now on. from now on i and my friends/family will pray just 1 time a day." will then it be called another version of ISLAM? no it will be called stupidity.
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I’m sure if you wish to look at everything from a Biblical perspective and are wanting religious prophecies about the second coming to come true then you would have to believe that this was the reunification of Israel and be content. But in the real world many many Palestinians who have lived in that land for hundreds of years are being persecuted and are suffering eviction from land that was legally given to them during the partition.
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Your saying that since they have lived in that land for hundreds of years, it is Palestine. You act like the Jews hadn't been living there for before that. Truthfully, all Palestinians who live in Israel today enjoy many more freedoms than that of Muslim countries. The ones that left Israel and went to Muslim countries live in ghettos and are persecuted. I kind of take it as an insult that you say "in the real world" because Israel does belong to the Jewish people not only biblically but also historically.
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If Israel is so free for Palestinians why would Palestinian people chose to leave and live else where in ghettos and be persecuted that doesn’t make sense.
Historically Americas indigenous people are Native Americans, does that mean that one day America will revert back to being ruled by them? I don’t think so. So why do you afford the right to Jews to take back lands that once historically belonged to them?
I must ask if you are practicing a religion because if you are then I'm sure you abide by the rules of that religion. To an atheist your religion may seem very restrictive but I’m sure you don’t mind because you are serving God. Many Many Muslims are very happy to abide by the rules of their religion no matter how restrictive it may seem to an outsider because they wish to please God and not some western medias idea of what freedom is. -
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One of my closest friend is a muslim, one very interesting thing I've noticed is that people judge him much harder than my other friends (I have christian friends too).
Example: if I told someone Me and Mohammed went out for drinks yesterday. Then people say "but isn't he a muslim?"
When you think about it that's really weird, cause no one ever asks this about my christian friend:
- i met Jacob yesterday.
- but wasn't yesterday sunday? Doesn't he go to church?
It has tought me allot to have friends of different religions, most of all that everyones relationship (or lack thereof) with God is their own as is their choise in interpreting holy scriptures.-
and another thing is that, not only in islam but also in christianism drinking is prohibited during the life in earth.(correct me if i'm wrong)
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I blog about health. Recently I put a post up about religion because I felt that it had such a significant effect on health. The title was, "If religion isn't about tolerance, what the hell is it about?" I came to live on the big island of Hawaii 11 years ago. After being raised as a catholic, I walked away from religion. Just tired of feeling guilty, and seeing people hurt each other within the church. When I came to Hawaii, I was sick. My healing happened over the first 5 years, as a result of seeking out every type of relationship with God that I could find, letting LOVE be my guide. On this one little tiny island, we found love in many places. We experienced every custom of relating to God that you can imagine. Jewish and Muslim, Buddist and Christian, Hindu and some folks who just wanted to be called God Conscious. The 2 most valuable things I learned were, One, to never offend anyone, especially someone who intends to serve, and Two, Never take anything personally....ever. Quarrel and conflict is easy. The high road, the tolerant road, ain't for sissies. Many blessings. -
"If Israel is so free for Palestinians why would Palestinian people chose to leave and live else where in ghettos and be persecuted that doesn’t make sense."
At the time of Israel's formation, the Palestinians were promised by Muslim countries they would be taken In and instead were persecuted. Like I said, it is a fact, not a disputable opinion, that all Muslims in Israel enjoy more freedoms that in any Muslim country. This includes freedom of religion, letting them practice their religion and have "western" freedom. In fact the Jewish people have been surprisingly respectful. If they acted as many say they do, Israel would have torn down the dome of the rock and rebuilt the Jewish temple. However, they let it remain. As to the Jewish peoples right to the land. There was never a land called Palestine. It was land ruled by the ottoman empire with a scattered people living on it. When Brittan was creating the partition to give the Jewish people a homeland, The Jews gave away 70% of it to the scattered inhabitants of that land(Palestinians). That land was only a tiny sliver of the current size of the country you see today as the rest of It was won in wars where Israel was attacked.-
So what solution do you suggest? -
Clearly you are in denial. And are living in the past.
I know Palestinians who escaped to Morocco from your Israeli utopia. They came to Morocco because.
1. There is freedom of religion in Morocco.
2. The democratically elected representatives here are not called terrorists.
3. They can travel freely around the country; Morocco doesn’t need 70ft high fences around the Arab quarter. And checkpoints on every corner.
4. There are no tanks patrolling the streets and drone helicopters flying around in the skies.
5. Guaranteed water & electricity during the winter and the hot summer for their hospitals and homes.
6. The Palestinians are not mainly employed in menial labour here just because they are Muslim.
7. Their rights to property and land are not forcibly removed by Moroccans who have been born on a different continent and have decided they fancy moving back to Morocco.
8. They are not ghettoised.
9. They are not persecuted.
"The Jews gave away 70% of it to the scattered inhabitants of that land(Palestinians)."
What on earth does this mean?
“as the rest of It was won in wars where Israel was attacked.” And Hebron which war did the Israeli's win to get that piece of land?
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There never was a country called Palestine until 1967 when Yasser Arafat declared it.
This history goes back to the Egyptians 2500 b.c. and through the Babylons, Greeks, and the Romans. The Palestine people were nomads and they were refused to allow to settle in Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, and ALL the rest of the Arab countries. When Israel was granted that they would be a nation again they had already bought the land from the Ottoman Empire, Turkey, and the British before this happened in 1948.The nomads, Palestinians, were told by the other Arab countries that those who did have land to leave the country until they, the Arabs, had wiped out all Israelis in the land and then they would have their own country. Israel gave 70% of their land gained in the partition to the Palestinians and appearently that was not enough, they wanted all of it.
I am living in the past? So you are going to tell me that Palestinians wanting to take the land from Israelis who have now lived there for 50+ years is right? It sounds like they are living in the past.
To say that Israel has tanks rolling in the streets, and checkpoints around every corner, that was a bit over dramatized, but those are precautions they must take to protect themselves due to the constant terrorist attacks they endure.
"2. The democratically elected representatives here are not called terrorists."
are you referring to Muslim leaders? That we peg them as terrorists? Such as Iran's President, who has on many occasions vocally expressed his want to exterminate the Jewish people with the use of a nuclear weapon. That sounds like terrorist intent.
"And Hebron which war did the Israeli's win to get that piece of land?"
I'm unfamiliar, please tell me what happened-
NO wrong... Im a turkish guy and Ottoman empire rejected the offer from Jews to hire lands in Jerusalem..
Study some history
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Yasser Arafat named a piece of waste land inhabited by Ottoman nomads Palestine in 1967. (Need citations). So what was this place called then before 1948? Because I thought that the “The Balfour Declaration” was The British Mandate for Palestine.
please read
www.mideastweb.org/briefhistory.htm
This is a Map of the partition agreement signed by the Jewish representatives in 1948.
>
And this is Israel now
It doesn’t look like the Palestinians have 70% more land to me.
If your not aware of what is currently happening in Hebron see this link
www.allvoices.com/Palestine/Hebron/Hebron-
bravo pat
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gamerm, ophase, and XanthePat, also irtiza104,
Facts and history are important: and I'm glad to see an effort being made to use some here.
I think a little caution needs to be taken. The advice, "Study some history," is prudent: But there are quite a few thousand years' of history in the lands just east of the Mediterranean; and the major conflicts there seem to go back at least as far as the earliest written records.
Recent events - in the last century or so - are important, but I think we should remember that the sons of Abraham have been trying to sort out a dispute about inheritance for a very long time.
That's the way I see it, at least. -
I'll read that article on hebron, and then get some documents for you which will show the 70% of land given.
@irtza I understanfd your answer to the killing question but pat did say the Quran does say bad things about Jews but then explained why it says that. -
as far as i know (i can be wrong as i wont be able to show any proof right now) according to the quran, the muslims and the jews dont share a very friendly relation....
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BTW, if u didnt notice, i gave your answer to the KILLING question... plz look up
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at least you're responsible enough to actually ask around to clarify your doubts on Islam. 3 cheers for you.
anyways, you mentioned 'Muslims are following a custom and teaching that was intended to AVOID unnecessary bloodshed'
there you go.
that's the whole truth, we are a part of a peaceful religion.
that's why i always find 'muslim terrorists' abit of a contradiction to be true, dont you think?-
""muslim terrorists"" are not true muslims...they never can be.
killing due to hatred, greed, power is prohibited by the law of islam....
the muslims can only go to war to protect their country and their religion.
i dont think the terrorists are doing this. they are just killing to cause terror. and that is not a muslim like behavior -
fatihahh,
As one of those people, I'll take the "at least you're responsible enough" as a compliment.
About "...i always find 'muslim terrorists' abit of a contradiction to be true, dont you think?" - I do see your point.
On the other hand, there are, sadly, people who are convinced that they are Muslims, and who are engaged in terroristic activities as an expression of their beliefs. "Muslim terrorists" is, I'm sure an intensely annoying term for Muslims who do not engage in terrorism. But, it is not too inaccurate a way of describing people in organizations like Al Qaeda and the Taliban.
Just as people who set fire to crosses and killed blacks, Catholics, and Jews a few decades ago in America could be called "Christian terrorists." Many if hot most members of the Ku Klux Klan, as far as I can tell, thought that they were Christians. And, that they were defending their faith and people from local enemies and foreign invaders.
I'm a Christian, and I think the KKK was, by any reasonable standard, a terrorist organization. And my professors and textbooks made sure that I knew they were 'Christian.' It's annoying, but it's also true.
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I must apologise to Norski for going of subject.
I would also like to tell you that if you wish to learn more about the rules of conduct in Islam you should try reading the Hadiths, they are volumes of books dedicated to how a Muslim should conduct himself on matters such as Marrige, Divorce, how to conduct ones self in business and life in general. You must again be careful to read correct translations volumes by Sahih Al-Bukhari are the most respected.
for a good translation of the Quran try the Noble Quran.
@irtiza104
Thankyou and you are correct ""muslim terrorists"" are not true muslims...they never can be.-
i was going to mention Sahi Bukhari to
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XanthePat,
No problem. In fact, I think the tangent was rather closely related to this thread's topic.
ZanthePat and irtiza104,
Thanks for pointing out references. No guarantees made or implied about how soon I'm going to dig into the resources - but I'm much more ahead now, than I was a week ago.
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Just put is straight I'd like to put down my whole understanding of the creation of Israel to explain the 70% of land given. Pat Gave a map of the final land given to the Jews but not how it got that way. As I have heard some comments saying.. "learn your facts" I'd like to put down what I know and for Those who say I have incorrect facts to tell me what’s wrong with It. I simply want to know.. thanks
The Ottoman Turks ruled the area of "Palestine" from 1517-1917. There was never a nation there, only provenances.
In 1922 the league of nations gave Brittan the Mandate to create a home for the Jews. This was the Palestine mandate and encompassed modern day Israel and Jordan.
(picture of Original mandate of Palestine)
www.solarnavigator.net/geography/geography_images/Palestine_British_Mandate...
Winston Churchill gave Jordan to the Hashamites. They were guardians of the Muslim Holy places and appealed to his department saying that since they helped out with the war they should be rewarded with land. So he appealed to give trans Jordan to the Hashemites. Jewish Leader Chaim Wiezmann agreed to give trans Jordan(that is the 70% of land) to the Hashemites. This was under the circumstances that Jordan would also be a home for the displaced Arabs that lived in Mandate of Palestine territory. It was signed by Emir Feisal. This document also promised there would be no more demands by Arabs upon Jews. So basically this means that modern day Jordan was supposed to be the Palestinian state. Of that reaming pot of land of the Jews, The modern day west bank and Gaza strip were also taken away before the final deal where Israel was created.
In regards to Hebron I’m not saying that that isn’t wrong but Israel has been forced to hurt its own people when giving up its own territory as they have in recent time in an effort to attain peace, they have been forced to remove their own Jewish settlers of that land.
I do believe "muslim terrorists"" are not true muslims -
Dear Gamerman I’m sorry but the state of Israel was created in 1948. The British Mandate in 1920 is the right for the British to govern this area. Yes during the 1920’s the British allowed the Jews the right to immigrate to Palestine but they had no political power there. The British controlled this area they may have notified the Jewish lobbyist’s when the decision was made by Winston Churchill s government to give the Trans Jordan territories to the Hashemite family. But it certainly wasn’t a “gift” from the Jews.
In fact by 1929 Winston Churchill tried to reverse the decision on free Immigration into Palestine and limit it to 15,000 Jewish families per year for five years after the area became flooded with European Jews. The Arabs were becoming increasingly alarmed as hoards of poverty stricken Jewish refugees turning up on their doorstop this went on to cause the Arabs to riot all over the area.
Of course later on during the 1930’s and 40’s as news filtered out of Germany of the Holocaust the British were horrified and continued to allow the boat loads of refugees to arrive on Palestinian soil.
1948 sees the creation of the state of Israel, treaty’s are signed by the Jewish representatives accepting the land allocation.And only then as the British withdraw Political power is split between the partitioned country.-
Thanks for helping me out with my historical knowledge, but it all just comes down to the fact that I believe the Jews deserve the holy land of Israel and you believe the Palestinians deserve it, and both of us seem to be very resolute on our stances. It goes back to Isaac and Ishmael.
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I know that the people belong to the land and never the other way around. For that matter, nothing is ours. It all belongs to the One God, no matter what name you use. If religion isn't about peace and tolerance, it is about judgmental discrimination and violence. What is your relationship with God? Mine is moment by moment, taking back the darkness by quietly shining the Light. Where there is love, I am home.
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Peace be Upon You All,
Thank-you Norski for asking to have more insight on Muslims and about Islam. I read a previous post you wrote asking for information about the Quran. I was disappointed to read the responses that you received. But, I was intrigued to read more of your posts. Now, that I have read this one, I am glad that I did.
I am no scholar on Islam. But, I have been studying Islam for more than 20 years. In that time, I have been told repeatedly that the best translation is: The Meaning of the Holy Qur'an by Abdullah Yusef Ali, published by Amana Publications. It’s available in the West. About the relevance of what the Asst. Professor did to the Qur'an,
I'll paraphrase what the Qur'an says itself: Every act done according to Allah's way is an act of worship and every act done to insult Allah, is done against the doer's own soul. Man is the beneficiary and Allah is in no need:
"O mankind! It is you who stand in need of Allah, but Allah is Rich (Free of all wants and needs), Worthy of All Praise." (Qur'an, 35:15)
Reinforcing this point, I will share with you one of my personal favorite ayats from the Qur'an:
"If Allah helps you none can overcome you, and if He forsakes you, who is there, after Him, that can help you? And in Allah (alone) let believers put their trust." (Qur'an, 3:160)
To me this means that a person who has not built a relationship with God in this lifetime, cannot be "saved" by us. That only Allah has the power to choose who He will help and who will sincerely believe. So, Islam is the greatest gift from Allah for the believer and a terrible loss for those who have no faith. But, don't take it from me, read what the Qur’an says:
"And verily, it had been revealed to you (O Muhammad) as has been revealed to those before you. (The Christians and the Jews) If you join others (False gods) in worship with Allah (then) surely (all) your deeds will be in vain and you will certainly be among the losers. Nay! But worship Allah and be among grateful." (Qur'an, 39:65-66) (Parentheses my own.)
About the Qur'an, you should know that it was revealed to Prophet Muhammad while he was in isolation in a cave by the Angel Gabriel. The Angel appeared before the Prophet Muhammad, huge and terrifying. His wings were as wide as the expanse of the mountains before him. He embraced the Prophet and the Prophet felt that he couldn't breathe. He was afraid that he would die and then the Angel Gabriel said the Prophet: "READ!" And the Prophet replied: "I can't read." The Angel Gabriel then squeezed the Prophet even harder and he repeated: "READ!" Then the Prophet, faint with fear began to recite the first verse of the Qur'an:
"Read in the name of your Lord who created, created man from a clot. Read, for your Lord is most Generous, Who teaches by means of the pen, teaches man what he does not know." (96: 1-5)
The Prophet, orphaned in his childhood, had been an illiterate man. The Quran is revealed in the most beautiful verse and rhyme. Although he himself didn't know that he was a prophet of God, when he ran home to his wife, trembling and pale with fear from this revelation, it was she who took him to the religious scholars and they who realized that he was the Prophet. All of the Qur'an was revealed from the Angel Gabriel to the Prophet Muhammad in this way. So, as Xanthe Pat answered so well before (knowledgeably, politely and eloquently , the Qur'an is a miracle in itself. Quran is the only ever living miracle. Today no other miracle of any prophet exists.
To answer your question about knowledge, the Qur’an states:
"Say: 'Are those who know equal to those who know not?' It is only men of understanding who will remember (that is get a lesson from Allah's signs)." [Surah az-Zumar (39):9]
However, in Islam there is a distinction between beneficial and harmful knowledge. I'd like to share a widely respected hadith on the topic with you, on the authority of Zayd ibn Arqam that the Messenger of Allah used to pray:
"O Allah, I seek refuge in you from knowledge which does not benefit, from a heart which does not feel humble, from a soul that does not feel contented and from an invocation that is not answered." [Muslim, a well-respected source of Ahadeeth]
While we are on the topic of knowledge, I have read the Quran from cover to cover many times and IT DOES NOT SAY ANYTHING ABOUT KILLING JEWS LIKE DOGS!!! I am alarmed that more people didn't unequivocally straighten this out previously.
In fact the Prophet Muhammad married a Jewish woman, named Safiya and he traded with Jews and Christians. The Quran specifically prohibits the killing of innocent people. Chapter 5, verse 32 of the Quran states, "We ordained for the Children of Israel that if any one slew a person -- unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land -- it would be as if he slew the whole people; and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people."
Gamerman, let me quote you: "Like I said, it is a fact, not a disputable opinion, that all Muslims in Israel enjoy more freedoms that in any Muslim country. This includes freedom of religion, letting them practice their religion and have "western" freedom. In fact the Jewish people have been surprisingly respectful." You are WRONG!!! In fact I live in a Muslim country. I do NOT live in a ghetto - as you mistakenly said muslims live in around the world. Saudi Arabians are so rich per capita that they do not cook, clean or do any manual labor, they ALL have a staff to take care of these tasks. All Saudi Arabian women have chauffeurs. This same luxury is shared by the muslims in the Emirates, Dubai, Doha, Kuwait, the list goes on. Furthermore, in all of these countries, the citizens enjoy a free education - including Graduate Studies and free health care. I know many American single mothers who would love to trade in your "western freedom" for that lifestyle any day!
Although, of course, there are many Jewish people who are respectful, you can't say that Palestinians and Arabs all live in ghettoes - and consider yourself to be one of the Jews who can call themselves respectful, can you? Your opinion is disputable and you have misrepresented it as a fact. You also sarcastically wrote to Xanthe Pat: "Thanks for helping me out with my historical knowledge, but it all just comes down to the fact that I believe the Jews deserve the holy land of Israel and you believe the Palestinians deserve it, and both of us seem to be very resolute on our stances. It goes back to Isaac and Ishmael." However, she told you that her family is Jewish. She never said that she believed that people of Palestine deserved it. She simply acknowledged that your assertion that muslims living in Israel are in an environment where they can "enjoy more freedoms that in any Muslim country", is false. It's so sad that in spite of facts that have been presented, you remain "resolute in your stance". In this time of war, it's time to take a new stance and stand on the side of peace, truth and CHANGE FOR THE BETTERMENT OF MANKIND.
In conclusion, Judaism, Christianity and Islam share a joint legacy of Biblical tradition through the Hebrew Bible; Christianity and Islam continue that sharing through the New Testament. The three faiths share many of the same prophets, all acknowledging a common parent in Abraham. All ascribe similar attributes to God, including Creator, Sustainer, Judge, and Forgiver. The three faiths believe God is both omnipotent and omniscient. The kinship of these faiths continues through ethical principles, including respect for life, respect for parents, and a work ethic that includes giving charity, doing well, and avoiding evil. We have more too unite us than to tear us apart. As the Prophet Muhammad said: “Seek knowledge from the cradle to the grave.”
Sincerely,
Hijabi -
Well, this has been a busy thread, hasn't it?
This was my accidental blog theme last month. 6 of the 10 posts for January were discussing in gentle and layman terms a moderate muslim looks at her religion. Of course, knowing that I am a Saudi-Indonesian wouldn't hurt either.
Good luck on your search. -
Hi everyone
great to see that we are trying to understand each other
I am muslim from Mecca ( Makkah) , SAUDI ARABIA
as Muslims we believes in all the prophetsAARE SEND FROM ONE God and because the Quran is the last unchanged God's words it remained as the guide and main source of faith to know about other pre-islam messages and in QURAN they all were about worshiping one God
THE HOLY Quran is God's words to us all to teach us about religion,life,ancient nation stories lessons,to tell us about the after life also in Also this Holy book teach us to do no harm even to unjustified killing of animals or trees ....
als as God is encouraging humanity to have inquisitive minds about everything and to look around and discover his great creation an wonders
About the prophet he was chosen by God to be the prophet for the new human era he is the most competent ,most sharp minded person,and great leader
ALSO as a believer we were asked to to treat each other in kind and respecting ways.
Islam AS word in Arabic Means SO TO BE A good Believer we need to adopt the peaceful approach without compromising unless the situation needs stricter approach
I assure you that this Islam has never been unjust to anyone; rather, justice is the slogan of Islam which was, for the first time in history, realized and practiced in the most perfect form and at the loftiest level by our Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him).
About the question if Quran encouraging to hate and hurt Jewish people ,this is totally not true ,THE prophet Mohammad used to be a great neighbor setting a great example for us
As most of you already know that when Jews were not there in the Arabian Peninsula. Like any other immigrants, the Jews came to the Arabian Peninsula from somewhere else, most probably the Levant area. In their march into the peninsula, some of them stopped at one point in Khaybar and Fadak and preferred to stay there while others decided to continue journeying till they settled in the city of Yathrib, which came to be known afterwards as Madinah. Therefore, referring to Arabia and especially Madinah as their motherland is questionable.
From the very beginning, the Jews started to develop a kind of relation with their Arab neighbors that was not always peaceful. Of course, they knew the language and the second and third Jewish generations knew the language. But they were still classed as Jews and not as either Aws or Khazraj, the two main tribes that existed in Madinah at that time.
The three main concentrations of the Madinan Jews were known as three distinguished tribes: Banu An-Nadir, Banu Quraizhah and Banu Qaynuqa`. These three tribes were unique in many ways, including avoiding mixed marriage with the Arabs.
In their dialogues with the Arabs, the Jews kept telling them that soon there would appear a prophet from among themselves and that he would lead them to humiliate the Arab idolaters. They kept on repeating this Jewish dream in front of their fellow residents until Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) appeared and came to Madinah. Thereupon, everything changed because they started to deny their dream and claimed that he was not the long-awaited prophet but just a pseudo-prophet, completing a package of falsifications woven by their Arab contemporaries.
They knew in their hearts that he was a prophet and not a liar, yet they opted to be arrogant rather than surrender to the truth. They wondered why the long-awaited prophet came from the Arabs. In the Jews' opinion, they themselves were the most deserving of that honor, and as they saw it jumping in someone else's lap, they decided to destroy it.
Two of their rabbis were conversing when the Prophet reached Madinah and one of them said to the other, "Is that him?" i.e., is he the prophet? And the other answered, "Yes, it is him." The other continued, "Are you sure it is him?" and the answer came, "By God, I know him as much as I know my own son." "So what will you do with him?" And the final answer came, "I will bear enmity to him till my death." (Saifur Rahman al-Mubarakfuri, Ar-Rahiq Al-Makhtum, Dar As-Salam, 1998, p. 145)
When the Prophet settled in Madinah, he wanted to create a cooperating human community and establish an exemplary civil society at a time when these poor Arabs could never imagine what a civil society could mean. So for the first time in history, he established the pact of Madinah or what I like to call the constitution of coexistence.
In this constitution, all signing parties — including Muslims, Jews, and other (pagan) Arabs — agreed that they would live in Madinah together as a society and would defend it in case of an attack and would never help any outsider against any of the other signing parts and would never betray the agreement.
Yet, at the first juncture, the Jews started disrupting the society when one of them, knowing he was backed by others, attacked a Muslim woman who went to buy something from a Jewish shop in the Jewish district of Banu Qaynuqa`. They simply created chaos and disruption in the society (Saifur Rahman al-Mubarakfuri, Ar-Rahiq Al-Makhtum, Dar As-Salam, 1998. p. 191).
In order to stop the chaos and let society enjoy the peacefulness reached in the agreement, the Prophet gave them the option to leave Madinah or else people whose children were killed would start avenging them. The decision was they would leave, and that was really the best and easiest option. It needed no justification because their offense was very clear.
The relationship between the Jews of Banu An-Nadir and the Arabs was not much better. Banu An-Nadir conspired to kill the Prophet when he was going to talk with them. Imagine how you would feel, Mohsin, if you were visiting one of your friends and he was preparing to kill you at his house instead of offering you food and hosting you. Imagine if he met you with a conspiracy rather than with hospitality. The threat here was against the leader of the Muslim community and the head of the state; it was actually a conspiracy that reflected how much hatred they bore for the Prophet and how betraying they were.
Thereupon, they had to leave, not because of the Prophet but because of their own handiwork. The Qur'an tells us at the beginning of Surat Al-Hashr that the believers never imagined that the Jews would leave Madinah and were not even planning for that, but the Jews themselves brought that to themselves. And when the Prophet gave them the option, they chose to leave. Actually, that was the least punishment they could get.
Banu Quraizhah, on the other hand, remained in Madinah, but again they did not keep their word and breached the agreement. They helped a confederate army consisting of Quraish and other Arab idolaters who came to attack Madinah.
The Muslim army, which by the highest estimates was only one thousand-strong, was facing a ten thousand-strong army in full arms. The Muslims had to dig a trench in a desperate attempt to defend themselves, and all of a sudden, they discovered that their fellow citizens (the Jews), who were entrusted to defend from the back, were actually helping the enemy.
It was the mercy of Allah that the confederates left without fighting and He blew fear into their hearts, but the unforgivable offense of these betraying Jews was not to pass unnoticed. The kind Prophet went to them and asked them to choose someone who would issue a judgment in their case. Banu Quraizhah chose Sa`d ibn Mu`adh because they knew he was their friend and would be fair with them. Sa`d chose a verdict from their own holy scriptures, the Torah: that the men were to be killed and the women and children were to be enslaved.
Thereupon, many Companions of the Prophet, driven by mercy, told them that they could intercede and get them an amnesty from the Prophet. But Banu Quraizhah said,
"No, we will never violate the judgment of the Torah." Actually, this verdict given by Sa`d is purely from the Torah, and no similar punishment can be found in any Islamic source. Some of them chose to seek forgiveness and were exempted from killing, but many others chose to die to apply the Torah. If they had chosen the merciful Prophet, he would have forgiven them, but arrogance took them to their destiny.
Even the Jews who went to settle up north with their fellows in Khaybar, did not stop conspiring and stirring enmity against the emerging little Muslim community in Madinah. These actions reached such a degree that we can conclude that, like any criminal, they were a massive threat to the public security of the society and were to be dealt with accordingly.
Brother Mohsen Haredy, a member of the Ask About Islam team, would like to add the following:
As for the Prophet's treatment of the Jews in general, there are many examples that show his kindness to them. For example, a young Jewish boy used to serve the Prophet and he became sick, and so the Prophet went to visit him.
It is reported that a funeral of a Jew passed before the Prophet (peace be upon him). As a sign of respect, the Prophet stood up. The Prophet was asked "Why did you stand up for a Jewish funeral?" The Prophet replied, "Is it not a human soul?" (Al-Bukhari).
It is reported that the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) had a Jewish neighbor who used to throw garbage in his way, but when the Prophet heard one day that the neighbor was sick he went to visit him.
In order to show his nearness to the Jews, the Prophet married Safiyyah bint Huyay, daughter of the chief of the Jewish tribe of Banu An-Nadir. She was captured during the Battle of Khaybar. As an honorable gesture showing the magnanimity of Islam, the Prophet freed and married her.
I hope this answers your questions. Please keep in touch.
Salam. -
ABOUT the G .SALE translation FOR THE quran
WHAT I know that it came out in the 18th century and in his Translation of the Quran he started it with an introduction in which he included many of the slander and reproach.
In the introduction to the English translation of the meanings of the Holy Quran, that was issued in 1736 is the follows:
"The fact that Muhammad is God's {blessings and peace be upon him} was, in fact, the author of the Koran and the main inventor ,doesn't not accept the argument, he says (Sale)
that is totllay false
Also George Sale translated the this verse of qurani in( surat AL-Baqarah :21) (The Cow: 21) as follows: O men of Mecca, people of Mecca, and he commented that his interpretation is the literal translation O men "you people" but that it is - as he claimed - which is no secret is that Muhammad is God's blessings and peace be upon him did not mean, however, in his intention to address all of the children of Adam, all as stated in the Koran, addressed a general formula to the people generally mean the people of Mecca .
this is not true it is GOD'D WORDS CALLING ALL HUMANITY in very clear way
And he totlly IGNORED THE MEANING OF THE VERSE {O Prophet We have not sent thee otherwise than unto all common men}
George SALE translations deny that Islam is a religion of divine, and this is reflected in a number of inaccuracies reflecting THAT ignorance of the simplest principles of Islam and disregard for scientific and method in the translation, which requires the interpreter to inform AND ACCURATELY TRANSLATE books and without changing the meanings -
Thank-you for taking the time to write about the history of Jews and Muslims, from a Muslim perspective and for seconding much of what I said.
Jazak Allah khair.
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