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How Does The Church Affect You?
Posted by Jeunelle • 6/11/08 • Subscribe to this Discussion [RSS] • Report This Topic
Topics: catholic, catholics, Church, churches, constitutional rights., pope, rights, vatican
Do you not know that the Catholic/Vatican Church is affecting you and your God given and Constitutional rights?
User Comments
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Not at all suprised. I'm a sinner for going to my own high school prom. One of the many reasons I no longer go to church. -
"STOP TOUCHING ME, FATHER!!! You're not my priest" -
That's a pretty sweeping statement. You don't give any examples. But take a look at history, the church affecting society is nothing new, practically all our laws and social mores are based on religious beliefs. It's hardly something new. Our system is based in Judeo/Christian beliefs ... not sure why you're so surprised about this ... or what in particular you're talking about.-
The Vatican is pouring a lot of money to repeal Marriage Equality in California which is up for a vote in November. They are working with Focus on The Family, which is not what its name implies. They are one of the largest hate groups in the U.S.
This directly affects me and I am not Catholic. -
Yes a pretty large hate group and a hate group responsible for murdering millions of people in the Dark Ages, close to 100 million.
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This is one of those threads that I suspect is destined to leave a bad taste in everyone's mouths. It's set up to be confrontational from the beginning.-
true. I probably should have ignored it but it was just so ridiculous I couldn't help myself.
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Me too. Smaking myself. I never go near these threads...
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No, I understand DM.
Aw, Jeunelle- ya've been on such good behavior lately. This really is only going to divide folks, and it doesn't really start out with a discussion so much as sweeping generalizations. I know the boards are slow today, but maybe this isn't the best way to liven 'em up.
You know, there are lizardmen in gladiator uniforms for that, right?
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You are right ThriftShopRomantic, I have been on good behavior.
I have been doing everything that BC wants me to do and to tell the truth I am quite bore.
BC is boring me because you all do what BC wants and follow the rules.
Just like a trained dog. Roll over and sit, mutt.
I am sorry but I can no longer play the game. This may be the last discussion from me for a while as I can't stay within the BC Boring TOS. The discussion need more room or topics and we are limited because BC gets too offended if we go outside there 4 or 5 topic choices.
Maybe most of you can be kept in box but not me. I done flew the coop. -
^YAY! I'm not sure if I'm kidding or not. -
Meh. I'm not taking the bait here. Good conduct among our fellow online members isn't a lack of free thinking; it's simple manners and discretion.
It's a shame if the only way to alleviate boredom is to intentionally work to stir up controversy...
by presenting what could have been a decent, meaningful discourse (if using real context with specific, relevant examples)...
Instead, in a framework designed to get the most negative response the quickest.
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Ok Shiley that is not a big crime, you can have Church in your body.
RTBjf73 good luck with that one. lmao
Here is what I am looking at ....
President Bush was seen not too long ago in the company of the Pope, the vatican will exercise there rights soon and lots people will have to make a choice, to follow them or not.
They have been collecting every NEED that humans want in an attempt to control them and their will. The Vatican is not dead, they are fully alive and they plan on making a comeback with the inquistion pretty soon. It is creeping up around you all, little by little daily. Our Constitutional rights are already out the window and our Government is prepared for any outbreaks that we might have later as far as a Civil war in the US to stop any madness that comes directly from the Vatican.
The Devil himself wears PRADA sneakers and we look at him acceptingly as if we are so use to his presence but I am not.
I have been watching these demons for the last 34 years of my life and you all better take watch too. Your lives, families and children's freedoms are almost all gone.
Little by little they keep away our freedoms and next thing you know, you are being controlled by the Vatican.
They will tell you when to eat and _hit and you better do what they say or else.
This US Government is becoming more and more a dictatorship.
What are you all doing to prepare for these hard times?-
You really don't make sense.
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Explain DM.
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Somehow I don't think you'd understand me Jeunelle. If you read my post above that pretty much says it all.
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DM if that is your answer, that is your answer.
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I love all of you...no matter what becomes of the thread
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peace brother but your first post to the thread wasn't that funny.
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What bothers me is how some can feel at home with a system that murders and forces views on others. The burning of many books in the Dark Ages that these religions clearly took offense too also puts you in the Dark because you are loosing out knowledge that you could of had if those books weren't burnt. Having someone else speak for me is a big NO NO in my book.
These same forceful techniques are making a comeback already.
President Bush clearly said "If you're not with me, you're against me".
Excuse me, but wasn't that what Christ said?
Who the heck does Bush think he is quoting and impersonating Christ and his words?
Bradley you are smarter than you look and yes it does affect you and me, our children and our children's children. -
shouldn't this topic be placed in the religion group section?
Oops I forgot I was one of those members advocating for more controversial topics in the general discussion section.-
kevin I'm sure that this discussion may disappear like some of my other discussions.
Another form of no freedom of speech. Another one of our rights gone. -
Jeunelle - this site is not your personal forum for your own freedom of speech soap box. I thought we all understood that. Your thread does not add anything to BC and doesn't promote a healthy discussion.
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DM I am sure this thread won't last too long so don't worry too much about it.
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Bradley here in Massachusetts a law was passed to enforce Sunday worship.
Sunday the new Sabbath day and the State police paid a harrassing visit to several shops that stayed open on Sunday to make money.
They also passed another law to enforce any disobedience and penalizing shops that remained open on Sunday. It didn't matter if you were Jewish and have your Sabbath day on Saturday which is the correct day to have it. They still persecuted stores that were open on that Sunday.
The Vatican were the ones to change the Sabbath day to Sunday worship.
Now they are working behind the scenes to make sure that it is enforced, including harsh penalties for those who disobey.-
you wouldn't happen to be a Seventh Day Adventist would you?
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Uh, no that's not true. Mass. does not force shops to close on Sundays nor penalize shops or shoppers for not closing down on Sundays to obcserve anything.
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No not right now Anok but they did try it in the beginning when they passed the law via Congress. They have not enforced it recently and laid off it as it's still a very touchy subject.
It will make a comeback again as they will persist.
Besides I live in Boston Mass and the stores are now open on Sunday, some are some aren't. Most stay open till 6pm. -
In what beginning? The beginning of the country? Well no duh
considering those who settled in the Mass area were Puritans
But no legislation is on any agenda for Mass in support of forcing Stores to be closed for church. The "Church" may be big - but Big Business is bigger, and since the government is in he pockets of Big Business, I doubt that anything will be forced onto the poor struggling corporations (yeah, alright, that last bit was sarcasm a bit ). -
"I doubt that anything will be forced onto the poor struggling".
Anok here in Massachusetts you have to have health care even if you can't afford it.
The Law now requires the State or the Government to penalize you if come tax day
you cannot show proof that you have health care.
The penalties come right out of your taxes some go as much as over $900 in penalties.
Oh yes it is happening, the Government is passing these laws regardless.
I know several families who are run by one mother and no father figure that have no health insurance for their families and they are already penalized and had to pay come tax day.
This is hurting poor mothers but they can't complain or fight the system because it is law.
And we all know that if you are poor and have no money, you cannot be represented properly
in a court of law. -
The insurance in Mass provides a multitude of choices for individuals ranging from employee based group care, private health care or government subsidized health care - and the last one works on a sliding scale.
Which allows access to health care for everyone, regardless of economic difficulty. Meaning, there aren't people who "can't afford it" because if they are below the poverty level, their health care is subsidized, just like it is every where else.
But health care has nothing to do with the Church passing laws that would require businesses to close on Sundays - like I said, the government wouldn't' force poor struggling corporations to close shop one day a week and cause "financial stress".
I would like to see a case court example of someone being brought to court or arrested for not having health insurance please. -
I am not fighting what you said Anok but I am giving more examples of how the Law sneeks around and forces you to except what they dish out.
I am sure if you ask those people if wanted the darn insurance, they would say no. In fact I don't want it and I still have to have it or be penalized if I don't follow and play by the rules.
I would like to see what will happen too because I still know a lot of people that don't have insurance and I have no idea if they paid a penalty as yet or not.
It's too soon to tell what will become of it. -
In a world and society that allows the medical community to gouge people when they are sick if they don't have insurance, and indeed health care is very expensive - why would you not want health care if it was provided for you, at a reasonable cost?
I mean, really - there are millions of people in this country screaming for health care so they can take care of themselves and family members - and you're mad because you have it?
I understand your point about forced law - but I have yet to see any proof that any actually gets penalized for not having insurance or that there is not opt out program. What I can't understand is why you wouldn't want insurance when you have it, guaranteed? -
1st of all, were not all cookie cutter.
I am perfectly healthy and I think it's a waste of my hard earned money.
I preferred to make that choice to get health care when I turned 40
just in time for my breast cancer mamograms and I prefer to tell Government to let me make that decision myself. Someone who is younger isn't necessarily going to need it.
I see it as a waste of money, my money that I should decide what I want to do with it
but of course I had to get it so shut them up.
Also just because you have it doesn't mean you will even use it.
Most people are terrified of hospitals and never to inside one, so that too is a waste of money. Yes my views are mixed on it and just because you think it's a good thing doesn't mean I think so, yet someone at the end of the day will be forced into a position they don't want.
Our personal freedoms go little by little until it's completely gone and then you all will want to protest. Now is the time to protest but nobody wants to, everyone is comfortable and everyone seems accepting of the system and it's way.
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The institution that is religion does have many flaws but the idea of religion is what really helps people. You cant attack people's beliefs but you can as Jeunelle is, attack the institution. But with that you will inadvertantly attack the beliefs some so willfully believe in because of the belief system they are based on.
Im not sure where you are going with this though Jeunelle. I feel like you are saying Bush is the devil and the US government is the hell imposed on us. If thats what you are saying, thats a pretty bold statement.-
It sounds strikingly like something from a booklet called "National Sunday Law" which I received in the mail once.
It was a book filled with a strange array of unsourced statements pretty much indicating persecution through collusion between current political authorities and the Catholic church, as well as a million other conspiracies.
I wasn't able to determine what group supported the book, but it was concerning given the paranoid, un-documented propaganda it was spewing. -
What I am saying is if you want to have your beliefs, we should be allowed without persecution to have ours too. Forcing someone to close their business down on Sunday because you believe it to be the Sabbath day is not my belief and I should be allowed without persecution to have my Shop open on Sunday if I so choose but this is not what is happening.
What I am hearing is "If you're not with me, you're against me".
ThristShopRomantic I never heard about that book
but the real persecution hasn't begun yet. -
interesting TriftShop, did you know less than 1% of Protestant America voted for Catholic JFK when he was elected, sounds like a conspiracy
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What Im hearing is religion as an institution is creating a divide and attacking it will create a divide on beliefs.
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BTW Jeunelle do you have some statistical evidence on the 100 million number? you realize that number would have been almost complete genocide of most of Western Europe no possible way for Europe to have repopulated enough to resist the encroaching Islamic empires of Asia Minor and North Africa.
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kevin ... I admire you for trying to use logic, but I dare say it will be lost on her.
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cheers DM
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DM I think I get your point that you think I'm nuts but repeating it isn't necessary as I already heard you.
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Jeunelle,
I have to say I agree with what others are saying here. I'm not a fan of many religions but I respect everyones beliefs. Personally I am a Unitarian Universalist and my religion has done much good for me.
I appreciate you supporting my concerns regarding marriage equality, but one should not open a thread with a question with no desire to read other posts openly. -
Bradley I have read the post and I never said that I do not respect other people religions but I do have a problem with any religion that doesn't respect anothers and forces their laws on others.
Many discussion here at BC about religion is already very touchy and I wonder why most won't discuss it and try to knock down the discussion before it begins?
This is a very touchy subject and opens lots of old wounds.
But yes just remember that this Government and the Vatican controls what you watch via media
and they already pretty much control you.-
Well, when you say that we are being controlled it isn't enlightment its an attack on the way we live. You are insinuating the way we live is wrong because you believe we are being controlled. No one wants to be told we are not living the life we want to live because some person believes in some conspiracy.
You have a point about freedom of speech and our rights but you tackled the subject in a wrong way. This type of discussion needs a finess at the beginning and then later you ram it home.
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thefly If you are not living that way, then it does not pertain to you, now does it?
I am speaking to those about freedoms that we are now lacking but most of you don't give the discussion a chance to breath and go in the direction it's suppose to go.
You expect to see the answer in the first few sentences.-
I find this to be an interesting subject, just not a subject BlogCatalog discussion 'goers' have a tolerance for. This place is for lighter subjects sometimes and thats ok. These types of discussions you can write a whole book on and you wont ever get a real answer.
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Exactly and I wonder why we won't ever get a real answer.
Maybe we are in denial
Maybe we don't want to face the questions or problems as they arise.
Whatever the reason you are right, it's hard to get to the truth or the real answer.
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If you have something to say Jeunelle I invite you over "OneBadAssBlog" so you can voice your opinion. Check it out, this is the place where you will really get an open discussion about things that are on your mind. You can say whatever you want there with no restrictions.
I recommend you checking it out.
1badassblog.blogspot.com/-
Fact BC also controls what we say here in discussions
and that will explain why I am now bored with them.
Thanks for the offer thefly but I have already spent a lot of time
on discussions that will always have some agree and some disagree.
I will use my energy on a more important matter.
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At the end of the day religions are only as good as their users...
I have often wondered however why anyone would name their religion after the Romans ?-
Me too gerry and they were also responsible for feed live people to Lions and the burning of the Libraries in Alexandria. I can just imagine what knowledge we lost there too.
Having Rome speak for you and then they are speaking for you today still. -
a history lesson for you gerry, the title Roman Catholic is a creation of the Protestant Reformation created by Protestants. Basically it was the opposition who imposed the title. Now the question is why do Latin Catholics hold it? (don't try calling a Greek Catholic Roman), answer Christ conquers all. Christianity basically transformed the Roman Empire within a period of 200-300 years, hence the origin of Christianity is Roman, it's birth was not in the Far East not in Persia but in the center of the Roman Empire.
Another example of a faith community taking on the name imposed upon them by their detractors would be the Baptists. They did not originally refer to each as Baptists their opponents started using that label because of one of their central tenets being re-baptism for all converts.
Finally, what about the Romans? Heck I write about their descendants who are, Italians, French, Spanish, Greek, English, Dutch, German etc... I think the victors of ancient times are often given a bad rap, besides who created cement? All roads lead to Roma. -
Gee, I like you Kevin, LOL
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Correction kevin
The Romans conquered Egypt and took with them the wealth and the religion.
The Greek and Roman religion is really a forrunner of the Egyptian religion.
Hermes is really Thoth the Egyptian God and most of the Gods were assimilated
under new names under Roman/Greek religion.
The Romans were a forceful group who destroyed any nation that stood in its way
and that is exactly what we are seeing today.
They also had a knack for installing Kings and Queens that they preferred to rule over Egypt
but they were not the true Kings of Queens of Egypt but impostors.
The US also has a habit of installing Kings and Queens that they prefer who love their Democracy.
Same Dog, new day.
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'The church' is not a part of my life...
But this subject line caught my attention,
as I just posted photos of a wonderful old
church in my area, and the annual re-mudding
process. I'm no fan of the Catholic Church,
but this one church does move me in a warm
way. Separated from the structure of the
'Mother Church', this building speaks to me
of love, faith, and endurance. See the pics:
jayapurrs.blogspot.com/2008/06/mudding-church.html -
Yes Jaya the architecture of the Church and most Churches is beautiful.
I am not a fan or member of any Church but I can appreciate the beauty. -
This is nothing really new, and not something that many here I suspect are unaware of or are complacent about. I remember the blue laws in Texas when we first moved there in 1980. They literally covered parts of the goods in the supermarket with sheeting because they could not sell them on Sundays.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_law-
Yup I remember them too jafbrit and yes it's nothing new under the sun.
However have we become use to this type of global control?
Has it become something that we are so use to, that it doesn't seem to affect us
or bother us anymore?
When I speak to people about their freedom of speech, it doesn't seem to bother them at all and they don't seem the least bit angry about it either.
They might as well be wearing a muzzle.
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The Catholic church does not have that much power...AND are not looked upon as some kind of authority outside the Catholic community.
For more about the Catholic church...go to:
www.allaboutreligion.org/roman-catholic-church.htm-
Sorry TheBigRuski but this is like pissing on my leg and telling me it isn't raining.
The Church works behind the scenes and yes they are getting stronger again. -
oh Ruski, that is one terrible site. It basically presents a cariacture of Catholicism and not the real thing at all, e.g. there is no such doctrine such as a "works doctrine" entirely false.
Regarding Justification, you might be surprised by the unity being bridged on that doctrine between Protestants and Catholics. I did a quick google on it, see:
www.vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/chrstuni/documents/rc_pc_chr...
or
www.religioustolerance.org/chr_just.htm (note: not familar with this source)
If I wanted advice on my teeth would I go to a podiatrist? No , so why go to a non-Catholic, possibly anti-Catholic source for information on what Catholicism teaches? Go to the correct source Ruski www.vatican.va
BTW Jeunelle you might just try searching for your lost books in the Vatican library and surprised to find they haven't been destroyed -
Really? I make a statement about the Catholic church...and you take it that way?
BTW "The Church" is something different than Catholicism.
Don't we all "work behind the scenes"? -
Isn't the "works doctrine" something like say 40 Hail Mary's and 40 Our Father's and you are good to go?
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No and No Ruski. You've been given a false impression on Christian mysticism and how Catholic prayer requests work.
Quiz:
1. How many times are Catholics directed toward Christ when saying the rosary? (which is not 40 Hail Mary's and 40 Our Fathers)
2. what is the etymology of the words Rosary and Bedes -
@kevin
The catholic rosary was borrowed Hinduism just as it was borrowed from the same source by Buddhists. It's called a "mala". A mala is a string of prayer beads used for reciting or chanting a mantra or other forms of spiritual exercise or sadhana. The mala beads are in sets of 27, 56 or 108 repetitions.
A mala is a practical tool for meditation as the beads are used to keep the mind focussed on the meditation. The mind tends to wander off all time, especially during the meditation practice. If your energy is low at the time of meditation, you can fall asleep. If the energy is too high, you can be distracted in other ways. During such times, mala provides the much needed anchor.
The prayer beads are moved in rhythm with the breath and the mantra, and hence both-sleep as well as excessive mental distraction are prevented by this action of the beads.
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Church bothers me. It's annooying by just being there on the periphery. Like a bee..buzzing away when your'e trying to enjoy a picnic on a sunny day.-
DVS It's my belief this thread will shortly be removed completely or moved to the religion group
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Sorry- posted in the wrong place.
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AWESOME Thanks Kevin for the Link I will take a peek.
Hopefully I can get my hands on one before they all disappear.
YES LIKE I SAID I KNEW THIS DISCUSSION WOULD GET LOCKED.
I'M NOT SURPRISED.
NO FREEDOM OF SPEECH FOR YOU OR ME.
SOMEONE OBVIOUSLY GOT OFFENDED AND TOOK OFFENSE.
TYPICAL BC.
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