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How important is religion?
Posted by sushmap • 12/06/08 • Subscribe to this Discussion [RSS] • Report This Topic
Topics: humanity, why religion?
Today the entire world stands tattered and torn, hurt. We still fight for religion! How important is religion? Is it important to belong to one religious group? Isn't Humanity a religion enough?
User Comments
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Nothing in comparison to Country/World and Humanity.
and Humanity is the biggest Religion. -
I wish the world had just one religion "Humanity". How I agree with you
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Religion is an outdated superstition people are too afraid to let go of...-
But the fact it this outdated superstition still divides the world and most importantly the hearts of people
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Etymologically, religion comes from religiere (what unites all men). Religion is one of the seven dimensions of man which is found in all cultures, present and past.
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If you have humanity, great. But is it not ture that every religion teaches humanity?
The problem is, people will continue fighting even if there is no religion.
Have not we seen wars between people of same religion?
Were WW I and WW II based on religion divide?-
It is true that religion teaches humanity but how many of us really stick to this aspect?
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"It is true that religion teaches humanity but how many of us really stick to this aspect?"
Not Many. I agree.
But this will be true for any ideology. What other ideology can bring more humanity?
The so called non-religious states are also involved in violence/wars. -
I so agree even people of same religion get into heinious crimes. I think people have forgotten to live. We probably have lost the meaning of true happiness.
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Religion is not always bad.It got good things also.Restrains people from doing bad things and gives hope.It becomes dangerous when 1 twists the religion 4 his/her own benefit and others blindly follow him/her.
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How can religion be outdated superstition ? Its not only believing in written things.Its more about what we believe in.
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I was answering to what bradhart said, nothing personal please. I am more worried about the way we demean another human life.
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Religion is dead.-
Sorry...... when was that??
Perhaps I missed it on CNN
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Religion is not important at all in reality. But seems that the end of the world might come about by the religious feud of the Muslims vs Christians.-
"Religion is not important at all in reality."
Religion may not be important in reality, but, unfortunately for many, religion was a reality, is a reality and most likely, will reamin a reality, whether mankind likes it or not?. -
I hope not. -
If the Illuminati have their way...
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Religion matters not, but fools will still die for it.
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Very wise.
I don't think religion is as important in society as it used to be, however sadly it is still being used as an excuse to go and bomb other countries.
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Religion essentially says, "Do this or that and you can be right with God. If you don't you won't." Think about every religion, even poisoned versions of Christianity that say this. In Hinduism, you meditate and work to become a better person so that when you reincarnate in the next life, you will be a better creation ... on and on this cycle goes until you reach "Nirvana," the blessed state of bliss or whatever. Mormonism says you must do certain things to become a god yourself in the next life. "Do this and you shall become a god and inherit your own planet."
Even Roman Catholicism, though they acknowledge the necessity of faith in Christ to be right with God, add on good works so that you can be right with God. Ultimately even in this faith, you rest upon what you've done as the basis for a relationship with God.
True, authentic Christianity though is entirely different from all of these (as opposed to what many Christians may have told you or inferred from what they have said). Whereas other religions say, "Do this or that to get right with God," true, historic Christianity says, "Christ Jesus Himself has done everything on our behalf that was necessary to make us right with God. Believe and rest in Him alone as your only source of salvation (who earned salvation in His entire life) and then you can be right with God." This message is antithetical to the messages of pretty much all religions, because they are all instruction about how to get with God YOURSELF. Christianity is good news about the fact that salvation has already been achieved through faith, that is trusting and fully resting upon the working and toiling of ANOTHER, namely Christ.
Christ = good and excellent, because He is a Savior FROM religion (just read the Synoptic Gospels and His responses to the Pharisees). It's quite shocking to some how much He railed on religious working and toiling as a means to get right with God.
Religion = bad, self-righteous (or) self-deprecating, too much toil and pain and you get no where in the eyes of God. -
Religion is very important. It plays havoc with every civilization. Good/bad...there is no escape as you essentially create new ones by opposing existing ones...just like "humanity"...why call "humanity" a religion??? It is just a good feeling or concept. But the sooner we get obssessed with it...we create another religion. As human beings we have this great ability to form groups that distinguish ourselves from others...in every walk of life including the philosophy of life. So...it will be difficult for us to walk away from this social behavior which is hard to overcome. Even athiests become obessed and fanatical with their concepts and sometimes sound as religous as the people/concepts they oppose!!
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You make some excellent points, friend!
"Even athiests become obessed and fanatical with their concepts and sometimes sound as religous as the people/concepts they oppose!!" Good call.
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The problem with religion Mr. Westerfunk, is that we don't have a world religion. Most of our religions have grown up in localized and culturally isolated areas. The Jews in Caanan. The Christians in the Roman Empire. The Muslims in the Middle East. The Hindis in India. The Buddhists in Asia.
The difficulties arise in the tribal conflicts and because the belief structure limits thought to within the tribal culture, thus you have terrorists attacks in India or Ireland, but always fighting between the tribes.
A global mythology or religion that could unify the planet would be a boon for humanity. Many of the new "green" thinkers, see ecology as that global religion, since we are all on this planet together and could all end up killing ourselves if we aren't careful.
If religion is an answer to our global problems, it will have to be a global religion, not the tribal variants we have all grown accustomed.-
I'm simply saying (in agreement with you) that religion is not the answer (that is if we define religion as "doing something ourselves to get right with God"). I'm saying the answer lies in Christ alone, in whom we place our entire trust upon His working and toiling on our behalf.
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In my opinion it is very important! The meaning of life is for us to discover that we are true children of an infinitely loving and merciful God, to find out what our responsibilities are to our Creator, and to fulfill those responsibilities. By this we find our reason for being! We shouldn't fault the composer ( God)when unpracticed musicians play His composition; a composition should be judged when it is played by the best, not the worst. -
I'm not saying that religion is "doing something ourselves to get right with God."
I'm saying the answer is outside tribal religions, like Christianity. Christ is nothing more than an agricultural myth. The God dies (winter, Christmas) and is reborn again (Spring, easter). If you believe the seasons can save you, then best of luck -- especially with global warming and all. -
It can be very important when used to keep the uneducated masses under control, so that the status quo can be maintained. If used properly it is very effective, just look at countries like Iran. -
Unless one's religion is to "to visit orphans and widows in their afflictions, and to keep oneself unspotted from the world." it is a worthless pursuit.
Reference verse: James 1:27 -
Elton John: "For gays’ sake ban religion."
"Pop’s Elton John wants religion banned completely because he believes it promotes hatred of gays."-
Something tells me that's just rhetoric.
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Disgudting, but Funny.
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"Humanity" would make a very good religion had mankind simply popped out of some random union of wayward cosmic dust. The problem is man hadn't. Man was created by a Supreme Being. And not only that, man was redeemed, and in the process got elevated to a supernatural level, a gift that's his to accept or reject.
To help man find his destiny, he was provided a Church, which, in the comments here, is being referred to as "religion."
How important is religion? I'd say very important, both as a means for man to secure the destiny laid out for him, and, more important, to thank God for his generosity.-
["Humanity" would make a very good religion had mankind simply popped out of some random union of wayward cosmic dust.]
Non sequitur.
[The problem is man hadn't.]
Nobody said that humans did.
[Man was created by a Supreme Being.]
Prove it.
[And not only that, man was redeemed, and in the process got elevated to a supernatural level, a gift that's his to accept or reject.]
More babbling?
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Thats why I'm Baha'i -
sorry, i am not into a "religion" but a faith ( faith is on a personal relationship basis )
i don't endorse the "religion" thinking; it's neither active nor proactive. It's somewhat dead (no offense, really).
Happy New Year! -
voodooKobra
Surely, you must have read Thomas Aquinas in college? There you will see his proof about there being a God.-
If God exists, the only way to prove that God exists is for God to prove himself. Natural evidence can not point to a supernatural cause. Twisted logic can also not point to a supernatural cause. I'm not gonna waste my time.
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Billions of people attend millions of churches around the world to worship god. Yet the god they worship is completely imaginary. Their belief represents a delusion. It is easy to prove that god is imaginary. Start at the beginning with Proof #1
godisimaginary.com/
Religion and patriotism are the most dangerous inventions that mankind has ever come up with.-
You only don't believe in God because you don't like the thought of someone being more powerful than you. If there is no God, then where did everything around us come from? Have you ever seen what goes on inside of a human body? Where did DNA come from? How could something this complex just have popped out of nothingness?
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[You only don't believe in God because you don't like the thought of someone being more powerful than you.]
Bullshit.
[If there is no God, then where did everything around us come from?]
Why do you assume a god is necessary? Pick up a book on Quantum physics. Seriously. I'm not qualified to teach quantum physics to people without an intuitive understanding of Newtonian physics over an internet forum using only a text-based medium, so a book is your best bet.
venables.asu.edu/quant/index.html
^- This page contains a list of books used in universities to teach quantum physics to students.
[Where did DNA come from?]
RNA, which came from naturally occurring acids and sugars, which in turn resulted from the chemical reactions that took place in the first several hundred million years of the Earth's existence.
[How could something this complex just have popped out of nothingness?]
If by "just have popped out of nothingness" you mean "formed over BILLIONS OF YEARS, your question might be valid. -
Quantum physics is a theory. And where did those naturally occurring acids and sugars come from then?
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[Quantum physics is a theory.]
You're confusing the scientific definition of theory with the common definition of theory.
Scientific Theory = We're almost absolutely sure this is absolutely true, but because of the nature of science we can only claim 99.99999999999999999... percent.
Theory in common usage = Hypothesis, guess, idea on a whim
Learn the difference.
[And where did those naturally occurring acids and sugars come from then?]
Does the phrase "naturally occurring" mean anything to you? -
Theory: chemistry.about.com/od/chemistry101/a/lawtheory.htm
Yes, but what does it mean to be natural? It has been here forever? -
Extrapolation of the expansion of the universe backwards in time using general relativity yields an infinite density and temperature at a finite time in the past.[20] This singularity signals the breakdown of general relativity. How closely we can extrapolate towards the singularity is debated—certainly not earlier than the Planck epoch. The early hot, dense phase is itself referred to as "the Big Bang",[notes 2] and is considered the "birth" of our universe. Based on measurements of the expansion using Type Ia supernovae, measurements of temperature fluctuations in the cosmic microwave background, and measurements of the correlation function of galaxies, the universe has a calculated age of 13.73 ± 0.12 billion years.[21] The agreement of these three independent measurements strongly supports the ΛCDM model that describes in detail the contents of the universe.
The earliest phases of the Big Bang are subject to much speculation. In the most common models, the universe was filled homogeneously and isotropically with an incredibly high energy density, huge temperatures and pressures, and was very rapidly expanding and cooling. Approximately 10−37 seconds into the expansion, a phase transition caused a cosmic inflation, during which the universe grew exponentially.[22] After inflation stopped, the universe consisted of a quark-gluon plasma, as well as all other elementary particles.[23] Temperatures were so high that the random motions of particles were at relativistic speeds, and particle-antiparticle pairs of all kinds were being continuously created and destroyed in collisions. At some point an unknown reaction called baryogenesis violated the conservation of baryon number, leading to a very small excess of quarks and leptons over antiquarks and anti-leptons—of the order of 1 part in 30 million. This resulted in the predominance of matter over antimatter in the present universe.[24]
The universe continued to grow in size and fall in temperature, hence the typical energy of each particle was decreasing. Symmetry breaking phase transitions put the fundamental forces of physics and the parameters of elementary particles into their present form.[25] After about 10−11 seconds, the picture becomes less speculative, since particle energies drop to values that can be attained in particle physics experiments. At about 10−6 seconds, quarks and gluons combined to form baryons such as protons and neutrons. The small excess of quarks over antiquarks led to a small excess of baryons over antibaryons. The temperature was now no longer high enough to create new proton-antiproton pairs (similarly for neutrons-antineutrons), so a mass annihilation immediately followed, leaving just one in 1010 of the original protons and neutrons, and none of their antiparticles. A similar process happened at about 1 second for electrons and positrons. After these annihilations, the remaining protons, neutrons and electrons were no longer moving relativistically and the energy density of the universe was dominated by photons (with a minor contribution from neutrinos).
A few minutes into the expansion, when the temperature was about a billion (one thousand million; 109; SI prefix giga) Kelvin and the density was about that of air, neutrons combined with protons to form the universe's deuterium and helium nuclei in a process called Big Bang nucleosynthesis.[26] Most protons remained uncombined as hydrogen nuclei. As the universe cooled, the rest mass energy density of matter came to gravitationally dominate that of the photon radiation. After about 379,000 years the electrons and nuclei combined into atoms (mostly hydrogen); hence the radiation decoupled from matter and continued through space largely unimpeded. This relic radiation is known as the cosmic microwave background radiation.[27]
The Hubble Ultra Deep Field showcases galaxies from an ancient era when the universe was younger, denser, and warmer according to the Big Bang theory.
Over a long period of time, the slightly denser regions of the nearly uniformly distributed matter gravitationally attracted nearby matter and thus grew even denser, forming gas clouds, stars, galaxies, and the other astronomical structures observable today. The details of this process depend on the amount and type of matter in the universe. The three possible types of matter are known as cold dark matter, hot dark matter and baryonic matter. The best measurements available (from WMAP) show that the dominant form of matter in the universe is cold dark matter. The other two types of matter make up less than 18% of the matter in the universe.[21]
Independent lines of evidence from Type Ia supernovae and the CMB imply the universe today is dominated by a mysterious form of energy known as dark energy, which apparently permeates all of space. The observations suggest 72% of the total energy density of today's universe is in this form. When the universe was very young, it was likely infused with dark energy, but with less space and everything closer together, gravity had the upper hand, and it was slowly braking the expansion. But eventually, after numerous billion years of expansion, the growing abundance of dark energy caused the expansion of the universe to slowly begin to accelerate. Dark energy in its simplest formulation takes the form of the cosmological constant term in Einstein's field equations of general relativity, but its composition and mechanism are unknown and, more generally, the details of its equation of state and relationship with the Standard Model of particle physics continue to be investigated both observationally and theoretically.[9]
All of this cosmic evolution after the inflationary epoch can be rigorously described and modeled by the ΛCDM model of cosmology, which uses the independent frameworks of quantum mechanics and Einstein's General Relativity. As noted above, there is no well-supported model describing the action prior to 10−15 seconds or so. Apparently a new unified theory of quantum gravitation is needed to break this barrier. Understanding this earliest of eras in the history of the universe is currently one of the greatest unsolved problems in physics.
[edit]Underlying assumptions
The Big Bang theory depends on two major assumptions: the universality of physical laws, and the Cosmological Principle. The cosmological principle states that on large scales the universe is homogeneous and isotropic.
These ideas were initially taken as postulates, but today there are efforts to test each of them. For example, the first assumption has been tested by observations showing that largest possible deviation of the fine structure constant over much of the age of the universe is of order 10−5.[28] Also, General Relativity has passed stringent tests on the scale of the solar system and binary stars while extrapolation to cosmological scales has been validated by the empirical successes of various aspects of the Big Bang theory.[notes 3]
If the large-scale universe appears isotropic as viewed from Earth, the cosmological principle can be derived from the simpler Copernican Principle, which states that there is no preferred (or special) observer or vantage point. To this end, the cosmological principle has been confirmed to a level of 10−5 via observations of the CMB.[notes 4] The universe has been measured to be homogeneous on the largest scales at the 10% level.[29]
[edit]FLRW metric
Main articles: Friedmann-Lemaître-Robertson-Walker metric and Metric expansion of space
General relativity describes spacetime by a metric, which determines the distances that separate nearby points. The points, which can be galaxies, stars, or other objects, themselves are specified using a coordinate chart or "grid" that is laid down over all spacetime. The cosmological principle implies that the metric should be homogeneous and isotropic on large scales, which uniquely singles out the Friedmann-Lemaître-Robertson-Walker metric (FLRW metric). This metric contains a scale factor, which describes how the size of the universe changes with time. This enables a convenient choice of a coordinate system to be made, called comoving coordinates. In this coordinate system, the grid expands along with the universe, and objects that are moving only due to the expansion of the universe remain at fixed points on the grid. While their coordinate distance (comoving distance) remains constant, the physical distance between two such comoving points expands proportionally with the scale factor of the universe.[30]
The Big Bang is not an explosion of matter moving outward to fill an empty universe. Instead, space itself expands with time everywhere and increases the physical distance between two comoving points. Because the FLRW metric assumes a uniform distribution of mass and energy, it applies to our universe only on large scales—local concentrations of matter such as our galaxy are gravitationally bound and as such do not experience the large-scale expansion of space.
[edit]Horizons
Main article: Cosmological horizon
An important feature of the Big Bang spacetime is the presence of horizons. Since the universe has a finite age, and light travels at a finite speed, there may be events in the past whose light has not had time to reach us. This places a limit or a past horizon on the most distant objects that can be observed. Conversely, because space is expanding, and more distant objects are receding ever more quickly, light emitted by us today may never "catch up" to very distant objects. This defines a future horizon, which limits the events in the future that we will be able to influence. The presence of either type of horizon depends on the details of the FLRW model that describes our universe. Our understanding of the universe back to very early times suggests that there was a past horizon, though in practice our view is limited by the opacity of the universe at early times. If the expansion of the universe continues to accelerate, there is a future horizon as well.[31]
~ Copied from: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_bang#Timeline_of_the_Big_Bang
I don't have the patience or the qualifications to teach this to you. It's basic stuff, man. Take a few science courses at your local community college. -
it isn't natural.
it does exists. something way beyond our comprehension must have created this for all. -
[something way beyond our comprehension must have created this for all.]
Must have? By what logic?
Also, WHOSE comprehension? Yours or mine? Are you speaking of humanity's current understanding, or are you making an argument from ignorance? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance -
By the logic that everything in this universe didn't just appear suddenly.
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[By the logic that everything in this universe didn't just appear suddenly.]
Who says it did?
The Big Bang theory is NOT "Poof! Suddenly, buildings and planets!"
The Big Bang theory is the steady and rapid expansion of spacetime and distribution of energy which slowly (yes, slowly) led to the formation of atoms, then stars, then galaxies.
Nothing happened overnight.
Can you actually fathom 13.7 Billion years? Try to imagine this length of time in your mind. That's 43,232,728,320,000,000 seconds. -
I see what you're saying. I didn't phrase it correctly. I meant that something cannot come out of nothing.
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human comprehension. i am not making an argument from ignorance, it is proof that I firmly believe in my religion.
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[I meant that something cannot come out of nothing.]
Not entirely true. Did you know that right now, everywhere in the universe, there are billions of particles popping into existence, meeting an antiparticle, and popping back out of existence?
Physics is still trying to figure out the finer details of quantum physics, but the recorded phenomena is not just "hypothetical" BS. It's documented, reproducible, predictable data.
[human comprehension. [babbling]]
You do realize that human comprehension is a function of time, right? As time goes on, human comprehension increases exponentially. There's only so much about the physics of the universe to be discovered. Eventually, we'll understand everything and the God of the Gaps™ will have no room left to hide.
Read the big block of text above. If you think you understand the gist of it, click the link and read more. Wikipedia's not the most reliable source in the world, but the big science topics are usually monitored closely to avoid vandalism. If you're skeptical (which is a good thing, actually), look through the references that Wikipedia cites and read the sources they cite. -
Bah! Too late to edit in:
Regarding life:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_selection
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molecular_evolution
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abiogenesis
More physics stuff:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmic_inflation
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Bang_nucleosynthesis
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metric_expansion_of_space -
So what was there before the Big Bang? Something or nothing.If it's nothing, how did something come from nothing.If it is something, where did THAT something come from? Keep going back before that again and again and again.You will reach a First Cause for everythign which is a Creator who is not bound by space or time.That is the only logical explanation my mind can believe.My mind can not believe matter without a beginning.And it can not believe matter than came from "nothingness" without an outside cause that is NOT matter.My mind CAN believe that a Creator that is NOT matter intentionally brought matter into existance!!
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Amibuta! -
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Around 200,000 people die in US hospitals from medical error. Should we abolish hospitals and medical care because they make mistakes?
Ambitious governments create lethal armies and weapons and use them to spread chaos, violence, death, and destruction. Should we abolish governments because they do harm?
Sure, religious institutions and beliefs have a bad side, a very bad side. So does just about everything else, you included! Maybe, instead of trashing religions we should try putting more focus on their good side and learn together how to make them better.
Religions have done more good than any other type of social organization in history. Doesn’t that make them worth the effort?-
how do you know that?? where is your proof??
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@cseab -
You said it wight! You're my hero. For all its faults, religion is still better than not having anything to believe in. Just my two cents worth. I'm not big on religious discussions, I actually avoid it like the plague but I just can't help agreeing with the above opinion -
[Religions have done more good than any other type of social organization in history. Doesn’t that make them worth the effort?]
Prove that.
[For all its faults, religion is still better than not having anything to believe in.]
On the flipside, atheism hasn't caused nearly as much evil as religion. That would probably change if the world weren't so darn religious and it didn't take a strong level of rationality to become an atheist.
What's so great about believing in something? It's a waste of effort, if you ask me. Also, what if you're believing in a lie?
^- Before you do the cliché thing and ask me the same question: Atheism is defined as the LACK OF A BELIEF in any god, not THE BELIEF that there is no god, so that question really wouldn't apply in this situation. -
[where is your proof??]
[prove that]
Why is PROVE IT! such a common retort from atheists? Is this the most you can contribute to a discussion?!? It sounds much like the I'm RIGHT, you're WRONG defense that we hear from religious fundamentalits. I've concluded that you are both in the same camp, you just use different words.
[atheism hasn't caused nearly as much evil as religion]
PROVE THAT
[take a strong level of rationality to become an atheist]
PROVE THAT
[...believing in something...waste of effort...]
PROVE THAT. There are lots of people that find comfort in their spiritual beliefs, certainly many, many more than atheists who find no comfort in their beliefs.
[you're believing in a lie]
How much stuff have you bought because of advertising? How much of that advertising was based on false or twisted information? Likly, most of it: the marketing empire is getting really good at fooling people these days. Apparantly there are lots and lots of people who "believe in a lie" because such marketing works so well.
And, just what if God does exist? Can you PROVE that He does not? And don't come back with the "cliche thing" that the Dawkins-Harris-Bennett people rant on about. RATIONAL thinkers have already PROVED the irrationality of these arguments.
So, if God does exist, then it is you who believe in a lie.
[...defined as the LACK OF A BELIEF...]
By any RATIONAL criteria, this IS a belief. Describe the God that you don't beliefe in. You are stating your belief. -
Skipping your angry bullshit...
[How much stuff have you bought because of advertising?]
Not as much as most people, actually.
[How much of that advertising was based on false or twisted information?]
I do my research, because the only things I've ever really bought were big decisions like desktop computers, etc.
[ Likly, most of it: the marketing empire is getting really good at fooling people these days.]
Well, I'm not a "likely" person.
[And, just what if God does exist?]
Then God should really think about proving his own existence, because his followers couldn't do it if their lives depended on it.
[Can you PROVE that He does not?]
No more than I can prove that Vishnu doesn't exist. If there is a god, only god can prove that god exists. Now, before you shake your head, hear me out:
Natural phenomena can be proven by natural evidence, but natural evidence can't prove a supernatural phenomenon-- only a gap in our understanding. If you want to prove something supernatural (i.e. God), you need supernatural evidence. An example commonly cited is an amputee's limb spontaneously regenerating, but that would then raise the question of "which god?" So I'm going to propose a more specific "supernatural experiment:"
Not only does God have to spontaneously regenerate an amputee's limb, it has to happen on camera, and the limb should have a tattoo on it of the name of the true god and/or religion. Probably as a result of massive prayer.
That's pretty much the only way to objectively prove it.
[So, if God does exist, then it is you who believe in a lie.]
Big if.
[Describe the God that you don't beliefe in. You are stating your belief.]
Any god and/or supernatural claim.
For the record, I don't believe in Allah, Zeus, Thor, Odin, Mithras, Horus, Osiris, et al. either. I don't treat YOUR god any different than the others.
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how important? it's like saying what is humanity without culture.
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