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How important is truth to you?
Posted by neobluepanther • 6/22/08 • Subscribe to this Discussion [RSS] • Report This Topic
Topics: lies, truth
I was having this discussion with a friend the other day, and we ended up having a heated debate about what is right : To always speak the truth, or to use your mind and hide the truth (even lie), if the situation so demands?
Now, I have lied sometimes and I wont claim to be what I not. But, as a matter of principle, I strongly feel that one should never lie, because any good that your lie might be doing in the short term will be negated by the long term negative effects it will have.
Which side would you take?
(P.S. - If you are interested, here is a link to my post on the subject : lifeamongotherthings.blogspot.com/2008/06/speaking-truth.html )
User Comments
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There is No truth-
Rubbish, there is truth, for example the truth is that a question was posed and you answered with the statement "There is No Truth", and I know that I am not a figment of your imagination and since I saw your response we could probably agree that we both exist and you made that comment. That is the truth. -
And that makes truth natural, because you don't have to make anything up...just write them down (or speak them ) in the order the things actually happened.
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Truth is relative....
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Not in the example I gave, if you believe truth to be relative then please give us another example to debate
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Ho Carl,
Actually, it appears, several questions were posed that can be interpreted and answered in many ways. So you I don't know whether the first part of your answer is true or false. It appears to be false, but my guess is that you thought it was true - so ...
Now, as for GFG, I am not sure he is telling the truth or not, since he just said there is no truth.
Tough to figure out what both of you are saying. I guess there is no truth. I love the paradoxes of life.
Rich -
neobluepanther,
the truth isn't just us speaking about something or writing about something and how accurate what we relayed was to reality. The truth is reality itself. When we speak and write of reality we are trying to relay our perception of reality the best we can, but our communication of reality isn't reality itself, only a representative. The truth is reality. Or in every day use of the term, at minimum, an accurate portrayal or communication of reality. That is, being true to what is actual. I think it is very important to be honest. -
@ carlgalloway: if you define truth as our understanding of what is True...
well a perfect example is Science.
Science is always changing what we say is scientific true.
We find evidence to support "truth" in science. Therefore Scientific Truth is relative to our human experience and study, at any given time in the history of science.
Thus in this case, truth is relative.
(what ever happen to James Burke? no one could explain this better)
AS GFG says. -
@dragonlager
When science changes an answer it once said was true, the truth didn't necessary change, our understanding of reality did. What science once said was true, and then changed their answer later simply means they were wrong before and they corrected their mistake. So what they thought before actually wasn't true. The truth isn't relative, our perspectives and understanding of reality is. -
good point, Then how do we really know what truth is? if we only have a relative understanding of it?
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It's Important if you want to live the full life in store for you. -
Truth is very important. I strive everyday to come closer to the truth. It mainly consist of taking out the garbage. Truth reflects reality, and one who comes closer to the truth comes closer to understanding reality.
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Do you think there is a reality that exists without that reality being observed? How would you know, one way or the other?
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Yes, I think that reality exist without one being there to observe it. For example, many have died, and reality didn't cease to exist after their death. How do I know? I am still here to observe it. So it is reasonable to say that after I die, reality will not cease to be. When there is no one around to observe it, the observation is not there, but reality still is.
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Yes, but it still takes someone to observe it. And once it is observed, then it is up to the observer to make what the observer wants to out of it. You observe something. You call it something. Someone else may call it something else. Just because you see death, doesn't mean a Buddhist sees the same thing - what ever that Buddhist may see. You simply cannot divorce your interpretation of an event from the event itself.
Carl, thought there was a question. I thought there were several? You see. Maybe not. That is why there is not truth.
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richrf,
I think the root of the problem lies in what you say.
A truth is a truth is a truth...and it will always remain the truth.
Just because different people are observing it from different angles and perspectives should not mean that every individual begins to form his own opinion of the truth. So, there should be a conscious effort to get as close to the truth and stay close. -
I do not know where the truth lies, if any event must be first observed by an observer. If it is not observed - then did it even happen? Who knows?
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richrf,
I don't think it is up to the observer to make what the observer wants to out of it(reality). It is what it is no matter what the observer makes it out to be. And it "is" even when there is no one there to observe it.
One must be careful not to let semantics distract one from reality. There are many ways to say "apple" in different languages. No matter what you call it, it is the same fruit.
Words representation and counseling to and from the truth are rarely if ever adequate delegates. -
I think you just made something out of what I said. I don't think you can get away from it. To exist, is to make something out of something. Or as Descarte wrote,
"I think therefore I am".
Rich -
It can be equally said, "I am - therefore I can think."
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Yep, you are, but who is observing yourself?
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No one is observing me typing this right now. Yet I still exist.
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Yes, you are observing yourself - I think?
I don't know for sure that you are typing. It is probable. You say you are, and you are doing your very best to communicate it to me. In fact, as I read your message, you were probably not typing. I don't think you are lying. I just think it took some time for me to read your message. What you meant to say was that you were typing. Or maybe not. -
"What you meant to say was that you were typing."
no, because at the time of typing, "No one is observing me typing this right now. Yet I still exist." I was in the middle of the event of typing it. It was a current event at the time of typing it, not a past event. By the time you read it, it was a past event because I obviously already finished typing it.
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Will you speak the truth when Bin Laden come and inquire to kill someone you care or somone from your own.LOL!
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truth and authenticity
lying and remembering the web of lies is too much wasted energy-
Yes, relapsed by lies weight is slate upon ones shoulders. boulders that must be repeated, treated to maintain the illusion that no intrusion of falsehood is seated.
One who lies has a lot to remember to try to maintain the illusion that those lies are truth, but one who always tells the truth doesn't have to remember a thing.
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What the hell is the point of taking lies? Is it useful? Does it make you more knowledgeable in any thing? Do anyone gain anything from lies? I don't think so.
Besides, it totally discredits the person and destroy the trust you have with him/her. It takes a long time to build trust which is so fundamental to any human relationship but so easily destroyed through just one or two lies.-
Yeah cheaters are liars. -
Lies, they say, help us get out of sticky situations... And at times, they help us from hurting others.
But as said before, a lie might get you out of the frying pan, but it will surely lead you to fire.
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The truth is very important!
But a lie repeatedly told becomes the truth.-
How does a lie that is repeatedly told become the truth?
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Does it?
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For the one lying, pretending, his lies becomes his truth, he repeatedly tells the lie as his truth until he no longer knows which is which ... eventually making it his truth...
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That does not make it a truth, Just because he believes it is the truth doesn't mean it makes it so. It is still a lie no matter how many times he lies about it. It cannot be "his truth," because it is not true to begin with.
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I don't get it. He believe it is true - so he is telling the truth. Or, are you going to decide it is true? Suppose he disagrees? Does EG decide. No - she is biased. I will.
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I'll help you.
Believing something is true, and knowing something is true are two different things. You can only "know" something if it is true. If you only "believe" something is true then you don't "know" it is true.
For example, Perhaps he believes it is true that fairies and goblins live under his bed. Just because he believes it is true, his belief alone in it doesn't make it true. Just as when he tells you, "fairies and goblins live under my bed" doesn't mean it is true just because he "believes" it is true. -
He sees them. He believes them. Are you saying he doesn't see them? How do you know?
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How do I know? becuase you said he "believes" in them instead of "knows" them.
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The beauty about truth is that it make human a liars
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Lie can never become truth or fact. Only people get confused after deceiving others and themselves.
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What a waste of precious life for anyone to involve or be subjected to lies.
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For every person who sees a truth, there is someone else who sees a lie. Give me a truth, and I will show you the lie.
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@beingplayed Exactly, they are the scums of the Earth
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Don't be so harsh EG. You may someday feel that it is alright to tell a lie. Have you ever been asked whether you like the way a dress looks on a young girl? Did you really like it, or did you just say you liked it? Or is it somewhere in between.
I once told someone that I loved the painting, and it made her feel very good. That was enough for me. -
The Truth Hurts!
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Not always. I think you are very nice. So did you just lie?
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Hahahaha! Ok not always and Thank You!
EDIT: No I didn't lie, I just didn't say everything. Now that is different.
BTW was the compliment a truth or a lie? -
it is not only different, it is also the whole point.
If a person tells his girlfriend, he was out last night with the boys, he is telling the truth. Or is he? He was out with the boys and a few girls also! Oh! But he told the truth, didn't he?
Hmmm .. I thought it was the truth, but how can you tell whether I am lying or not? -
@ Rich about how can I tell if you are lying or not: "I can never can tell"
About the boyfriend being out with the boys, "Woman's instinct can always can tell." LOL! -
"If a person tells his girlfriend, he was out last night with the boys, he is telling the truth. Or is he? He was out with the boys and a few girls also! Oh! But he told the truth, didn't he?"
He did tell the truth. He was out with boys last night. If yesterday I ate breakfast, lunch, and dinner and I told you, "yesterday, I ate breakfast" it is true. I didn't say, "Yesterday, I 'only' ate breakfast." That would be untrue. You have to watch the semantics. -
lol. A women's instinct - the final arbiter of truth!
Rich -
doh!
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Ah ... morgantj, you are in the Clinton camp of semantics of truth. As well as we understand what Is is, we are O.K. But then only semanticists should be able to decipher truth. On the other hand, the girl involved may think it was a darn lie, and wouldn't care the heck what the semanticist thought.
Personally, I would say he was lying - assuming I believed in truth. -
he truth isn't just us speaking about something or writing about something and how accurate what we relayed was to reality. The truth is reality itself. When we speak and write of reality we are trying to relay our perception of reality the best we can, but our communication of reality isn't reality itself, only a representative. The truth is reality. Or in every day use of the term, at minimum, an accurate portrayal or communication of reality. That is, being true to what is actual.
There are many ways to say "apple" in different languages. No matter what you call it, it is the same fruit.
Words representation and counseling to and from the truth are rarely if ever adequate delegates.
Semantics should not be mistaken for truth, semantics is merely an attempt with words to represent reality. -
What event exists without the observer? Something may possibly exist before it is observed, but it is only a possibility. When it is an observed, the observer knows it exists. Then the trick is to communicate what one has observed. By image, by sound, by look. What is the best way, so that there is no lie?
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I've already addressed that question when you asked it above.
No one is observing me typing this right now. Yet I still exist, I am real. The event of me typing happened. It is not up to the observer to make what the observer wants to out of it(reality). Reality is what it is no matter what the observer makes it out to be. And it "is" even when there is no one there to observe it. -
I think (believe) you are observing yourself. Maybe you don't. I don't know. I observe myself all the time. Do you think I observe myself? How do you know?
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are you able to observe the eyes you observe with?
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I observe my dreams, and they have nothing to do with my eyes.
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"eyes" was a metaphor of course.
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If it is true that everything is a lie (an illusion), then the statement contradicts itself by being true, thus making the statement false by involuntarily proving truths existence.
If it is false that everything is a lie (an illusion), then it again simply proves truths existence.
Either way, Truth is proven to exist.
In life, “the illusion” is often prettied up and designed to sell, and at that, at discount prices. People bite at the bargain, It seems easier and cheaper, so their off with their bargain, and go down this long winding road until they eventually are lost, and finally reach a dead end, the end of “the illusion.” They are then forced to turn back, and back track to where the road originally split, sometimes taking them what seems like an eternity just to get back to that fork. Once, they are there. Then, they take that road, yes, the one less traveled, the one that leads them to the way of enlightenment, the way they wish they would have traveled to begin with, the way their hearts originally pointed to, the way of the truth.
www.travisjmorgan.com/blog/2007/01/19/proving-the-existence-of-truth/-
I think one can say everything is an illusion, or everything is real. It is whatever an individual chooses to call its own existence. Is a dream real or an illusion? A matter of perspective.
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Just because there are many perspectives of reality, it doesn't mean that perspectives is all there is. Perspectives of what? of a central point, of REALITY, of what is actual. And that is what the truth reflects. There is a reality, so there must be truth with it. Sure there are many perspectives, but these perspectives are around the truth of reality.
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There may or may not be a central point. I have not been able to find the center point of whether or not I was dreaming when I was dreaming. It seems to be pretty real. In fact it is.
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If reality is not the central point of ones perspectives then what is?
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Just some thoughts being passed between observers. You know, like the banter on this forum.
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and what are they observing?
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With their senses, they are interacting with all of the probability (photon) waves of the universe, to construct something that makes sense. Photons (light) does not become something, until it is observed. Until then, it is just lots of possibilities.
Within themselves, the Mind is interacting with ... a non-space/time world which is something else in itself. Interesting how the Mind can go from one to the other. Always, amazes me.
Rich -
What you are describing is pseudoscience and reeks of the quantum mysticism as found in the movie, "what the bleep do we know."
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I think that your reality is your reality, and it doesn't juxtapose with mine. What should we do? Whose truth do we take? Yours or mine. Or should we just accept the fact, that what you and I think is true is just what you and I think is true?
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First off, truth is in the mind of the beholder. What is true for one person, isn't for the other. Existence of a god, for instance. You may say true, and I say fairytale.
Secondly, constant pure truth can hurt those you love -- Rich's example of your opinion of someone's appearance is a good example. Telling grandma that her cookies suck is another. Turning in your brother to the police is a more extreme example.
Life is not a series of absolutes in terms of "this" is always wrong and "that" is always right. Life is NOT black and white.-
Life is definitely not all black and white, but what I feel is that we should be making all efforts possible to make our shade of grey as white as possible.
Consistent truth might seem to hurt at first, but who knows in the end it turns out to be for the benefit for all. Even turning in your brother, who in that way is prevented from committing an even greater crime, could turn out to be good. -
The more often one tells the truth the easier it becomes.
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It easy to attack reality and objective truth. Then become a nihilist.
But it makes not practical sense to be nihilistic and ignore the reality you have around you.
At some point you must decide what is Meaningfully "true" and important to be considered "truth" in a situation.
I watched the Bhuddist Monks of oppressed Thailand get up and march (thru my TV) last year. They decided to take meaningful action which was counter intuitive to their philosophy. I couldn't have been more emotionally moved.-
Your ideas or the Truth?
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what?
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Here's the truth: WE CAN NEVER EVER TELL! but the truth is out there
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how do you know the truth is out there if WE CAN NEVER EVER TELL?
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There is always two sides of a story
If you know your truth and your telling the truth then that's the truth.
We can fool everyone but we can never fool ourselves.
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Yep, lots of ideas on what Truth is. I wonder which one is true?
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I like the correspondence theory and Tarski's theory of truth. -
All too complicated to discuss here. I have my own perspective. But suffice to say, everyone of the philosophers who thought they knew what truth was, would have a hard time convincing the others that they didn't have the truth. But that is what makes the world go round. That - and Love.
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If what you believe to be true is not proven true...or someone is contesting it, It is not the TRUTH, its just FAITH. TRUTH is incontestable, undeniable and indisputable.-
It goes without saying, that is why it is "believed" instead of "known," because it has not been proven to be true. However, someone can "believe" in something that happens to be true and just not "know" it is true yet. So it is possible that something can be true, and someone just not "know" it. However, for one to be honest one cannot state that something is true unless they "know" it is, "belief" in it alone is not justification enough to state that something is true.
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There is a difference between truth and honesty. Honesty is when people attempt not to lie and be direct with you. Truth is when something is correct, it is very hard to be correct and it is open to interpretation. I would rather be honest than claim to be truthful.-
Most of the time I am honest, sometimes I'm not. I am not going to hurt someone's feelings if there is no reason to. Also, many times I am honest, and no one believes it, so I pass. I just tell the lie, which they do believe. Of course, what is honest and what isn't is always a subject for debate.
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I think being completely honest is even harder than being truthful. Being honest means not only are you always speaking the truth, but you are also true in your thoughts...and though - most of the time - we can control what we say, our thoughts are not always in our control.
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Semantics. -
I can't disagree with you, but I also think that a need for semantics is felt when us human beings are not able to deal with a situation in a manner that we know we should.
But, we also don't want to admit our mistakes, and hence we find new reasons , logics, or words to justify our actions. No?
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In college, I read a fascinating book entitled "Morality and Mental Health" by O. Hobart Mowrer. He postulates that when people are lied to constantly (and that includes lies of omission) there comes a point where they essentially believe in a reality that does not exist. That is, that lying leads almost inevitably to mental illness. -
Look all I know is If I asked my boyfriend "Honey does my butt looks big"?
and he answers "no darling", when in fact it's bigger than Jennifer Lopez's butt, he is a dead man. ALRIGHT???
Now if he answers me "yes darling it is", he is still a dead man, he is dead either way.
ALRIGHT???
Learn to look straight at their eyes when they are speaking to you.
This is how you can tell who is lying to you in most cases.-
Maybe he's seen bigger?
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Your idea that a lie will eventually make things worse in the long run is very subjective. Truth or lie ... it all depends on the situation, there are too many hypothetical variables in your question. I say it all depends, I make those kinds of decisions in the moment.
Ultimately it depends on your motivation ... a lie to steal something from someone, or to hurt them etc., ... well that's wrong. -
The truth wins! From the heart - always. -
@morgantj...that's his problem...lmao
DM....but what "I'M SAYING IS"...he's dead either way, right or wrong. lmao -
I just asked a similar questin concerning "the truth" and politicans.
www.blogcatalog.com/discuss/entry/who-are-you-going-to-vote-for -
The truth is very important to me but so is constructive criticism. -
I started blog.bullshitawards.com for a reason. There are far too much deceit and misgivings for me. We will be calling them out! -
above all things ..Truth is the most important to me -
You guys are so full of crap for something so simple.
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truth must always prevail... -
Very - Nards
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truth build trust... -
truths build trust...
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A man leads a sheep by a rope, his favorite sheep & the wonderful pet of his little son. On the way a passing friend of his asks him “Why are you carrying a dead hedgehog by rope, for what purpose would it serve?” The man ignores his friend & carry on. He couldn’t go long before another friend if him who happens to come across asks the same question. The man turn back to have a hard & intense look at the sheep & reassure himself. And then again & again. Once again & once again, oh! Hell all lands the same question I must have become insane . this couldn’t be my sheep. My sheep must be playing with my little son at home. I must get rid of that carcass before it is too late & becoming the butt of all jokes of whole village. The truth is no longer the truth.
CLICK srilankaholidaysz.blogspot.com/ FOR WHOLE ARTICLE-
The truth, my friend , is still the truth. Only the man has been misled to believe that it might not be so.
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Very true.
But then you no longer see the truth. It was drowned out by propaganda. -
It's sad that truth doesn't matter much to so many people. Look at all the people who lie to defend their politics. It's become a game where anything goes. -
Straight up I don't lie. I never have. "If you treat everything as a matter of life or death than you are going to find out that you will die alotta times" says Van Wilder... haha.
I say grow some balls, man up, and stay real. Some people will love you, some will hate you, but none should phase you.-
If you keep it real and true, people will trust you.
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Once you kno the truth about something, it should loose you from whatever situation you're in, it should lift a weight off of your shoulders, and essentially set you free. But thats only if you know the REAL truth and the WHOLE truth!
Check out my blog plz, and comment!
stepsoffaithblog.blogspot.com
Email us at:
stepsofffaithblog@yahoo.com -
TRUTH SHALL PREVAIL!!!
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