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How Much Do You Know About The Swastika?
Posted by JoyChaser • 12/29/07 • Subscribe to this Discussion [RSS] • Report This Topic
Just thought I'd give you a heads-up about my latest blog post, in which I discuss the origins and previous positive meanings behind the swastika, and some of its surprising uses prior to the rise of Nazism. You won't guess who once used the swastika. Check it out and let me know what you think. 
joychaser.com/2007/12/29/corrupted-symbols-the-swastika-what-it-really-mean...
User Comments
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I believe the swastika in Japanese is the kanji for ban, meaning "full."
Ah, the things I learn from the Wikipedia article on Bleach! -
Isn't it like Swiss for peace or something too? And all Japanese shrines are marked with an inverted mark on maps in Japan. -
i thought it was the sign for happiness...
..maybe i need to go wiki it.. -
American Indians used a backwards swastika...-
I've seen some efforts to reclaim the swastika as a good symbol by reversing its orientation, but I think those efforts miss the more effective way: by educating people of the true meaning of the swastika and making them understand that it isn't a symbol to be afraid of, it loses its negative meaning.
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Being Hindu, I'm well acquainted. -
swastika schmatika -
yes it's sad that that symbol has been appropriated by a very dark culture -
Swastika. it was a good name not scared -
Interesting read, nice post-
Thanks.
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I'd like to read the post but while the link leads to your blog, it simply says "error 404."-
Hmm. Odd. It seems to be working now. Sorry for the confusion.
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beside his today -nazi meaning - i like the swastika look...
i fact all the nazi/whermacht /third reich stuff have some visual appeal!
the red black white colour scheme the swastika, the eagle etc... -
Visual appeal? WTF? With such a hateful history, how can you just callously state that you ttiger just LIKE THE VISUAL APPEAL. WTF? You need to step your ass into Poland (which I've done), a land drenched in Jewish blood, and stand in front of the last standing gas chamber and the ovens, and stand across from a bar used to hang people every morning just for kicks... and maybe you can re-evaluate the "attractive" nature and get your head out of your arse and realize the true insensitivity of your comment and the danger of even investigating the cute pre-Nazi time where Swastikas were pretty symbols. The minute the first group of Jews and dissidents were stripped, gunned down in the forest and buried like trash, the Swastika and the Polish flag were permanently changed to a dark, ugly sign without a past. Please choose your words more carefully in the future.
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I fail to see how investigating the origins of the swastika is dangerous. The symbol served a positive purpose for thousands of years before it ever became a Nazi symbol. What seems more dangerous, in my opinion, is perpetuating the fear and uncertainty that the symbol has come to represent by choosing to remain ignorant of its positive origins.
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Missladybug: Take a deep breath. Hitler had dark hair but that doesn't mean that dark haired people forever must be considered evil. Ttiger is right, the Nazi's had talented designers and propagandists behind their symbols and emblems. Discussing that fact does not in any way condone the actions of that regime.
I personally LOVE some of the traditional patterns used in Islamic wall hangings, but that does not mean I support marrying young girls off against their will or that I endorse courts based on Sharia law. -
actually i'm talking about the way it look and not the significance behind it!
Hitler have the a good sens of marketing and all the red/white/black colour and visual surround it were kinda attracting for young because it was looking cool! and so about Hitler and nazi Adolph Hitler is no different than Alexander the Great or Gengis Khan. They were all conquerors who killed and torture many people and they are all 'big men' in the sense of their notoriety living on long after they died. humanity is loaded with horrible story the nazi era is just another horrible time and evil behaviour among many others in our history!
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JoyChaser, I commented at your blog, but I kinda wondered:
What is the relevance, if any, of the orientations of the device as used by the 45th Infantry Division being the reverse of that used by Kipling? -
Thanks for the comment, techfun. I replied to your question on the post itself. Let me know if you have any other questions, and I'll do my best to answer them.
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It is an ancient symbol or sign found in many cultures around the world. Even American Indians used it. Hitler and others were interested in religious folklore, the occult and adopted and inserted beliefs and symbols including the swastika into their nationalism cult. As an aside, oddly, they even attempted to use the great an incorporate mystic Meister Eckhart and his teachings. If may be entirely wrong on this fact, but if I recall correctly, the swastika was used by one of the nordic countries on their aircraft before Hitler's adoption.
(sorry if I have written something addressed above. short on time for other matters at the moment to read the comments, and will revisit.)-
Hitler's use of the swastika has been discussed frequently. One possible meaning combines the swastika's symbolism of "power" with its cyclical nature to produce a meaning something akin to "national reincarnation," something Hitler was highly interested in: he wanted to revive Germany as a powerful nation after the crippling effects of the Treaty of Versailles.
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Its a sign of peace and happiness from the ancients -
It started out as a symbol of good that was then perverted by the blood of innocents being spilled upon it. Whatever it represented in our collective consciousness prior to 1939 is gone now. Just like the satan idiots did with the pentagram... -
I just don't understand, I guess. I just think it is important to realize that this symbol has been forever tainted by blood and any effort to wipe away this stain is irresponsible. The swastika perhaps had a positive history, however show this symbol to anyone who lived through the Holocaust and had only 11 of their 110 relatives remaining after the war...and see the response. I met such an individual this past weekend, who witnessed babies being tossed into the air to be skewered on bayonets. And his parents and grandparents shot at close range. And rapes of women and children. And children tossed alive into fiery pits at Birkenau. He survived 5 concentration camps and would be hard pressed to see the positive gained from reversing the negative imagery of the swastika.
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unfortunately cruelty is a part of human being
i understand very well you feeling and the story you're telling us is so sad:( but whats i'm trying to explain i s that in the human story atrocity is everywhere and will always be,
even today atrocity and horrible story happening everyday! -
This. There's nothing wrong with acknowledging where symbols came from - Christmas trees are pagan symbols after all. But to gloss over a dangerous symbol's history - which is what it really means - is to deny that history, and lead to a renewed interest in all its meanings.
I could write a post on how the word "nigger" is really just a contraction of the word "negro" and the confederate flag is just a symbol of the old south, but to do so would be ignorant and foolhardy.
I can't comment on your post, because I can't get to it by any means.
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Wow! Missladybug the anger in your writing is very valid, but we have to remember that it's a discussion forum. I don't think Joychaser was trying to be irresponsible nor insensitive, just educating others. It's sometimes best to be acquainted with the whole story than just a part, a very big part I know, but still it's important!-
Thanks for your comment lcarroll30. I appreciate what both joychaser and you are trying to say. I think his intentions are good as yours are. I think it's just a dangerous topic to touch. I am sure there are symbols for other groups as well that could be looked at as a simple object, but after events in history are clearly ugly. I think the intent here is just to explore the curious history of the swastika. I do know that here, joychaser did not place the swastika for the purpose of hurting, as symbols are placed around the world such as swastikas, nooses...with a far different and sinister intention.
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Excellent post! Well worth a stumble-
Thank you.
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If you are thinking about Hitler, it's a bad symbol; if you are thinking about Eastern Religion, it's a good symbol. It's just a sign. -
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@ the nazi sybol is the reverse swastika
@ the swastika is a holy symbol for the hindus
in india you have a lot of houses with the swastika painted on the main door frame.
missladybug seems to be quite pissed that ur talking about the swastika, she fails to realize that the world sees the swastika differently.
shed probably get butchered if she was in gujrat trying to wipe out all the swastikas for her holocaust survivors.
indeeed the holocaust was a misserable time, but so is it for the the thousands of iraqis at the moment and what are you doing about it miss???
Joy nice article, for me living in india its a well known fact abt the positives of the swastika,
its like the reverse cross makes it a sign for the devil the same with the swastika.
Joy, i spent a while on your blog and see we have a lot of stuff in common. my blog is currently undergoing a redesign, when im done with it ill like you to take a look.-
friedclyde, I am not surprised to you express your opinions as you do. You have pretty much proved my point that the discussion of swastikas is only responsible by discussing the Nazi use and the atrocities (not the clear and intentionally understated "miserable" experience). The last thing I want is for Indians to be forbidden to use their symbol in its original attempt, forbidding religious expression. If you follow current news, you will rarely see a news story discussing the religious use of the swastika on the world scene? How often do you see it used in association with the Neo Nazi movement? I am very well read, and I have yet to see a discussion of the use in India. But the papers have been riddled with the use of hateful uses of the symbol. If you truly have a problem with the perversion of the swastika, you would direct your anger towards the persecutors of the Jews, the Nazis, and their destruction of the swastika. Not by railing insults towards me, and insulting the "miserable" experience of the Holocaust and my unrelated feelings about the Iraqi war and the Iraqis (that by the way, I do feel intense feelings about). If you truly were focused on the agenda to "free" the swastika from its associations, then your opinions would be kind and understanding, like most others in this discussion. I have expressed my opinions strongly as there is no other way to discuss murder. But I have intended no personal attacks.
Discussing my potential butchering in India and my feelings about Iraqis and the miserable time of the Holocaust is a personal attack. I will leave it at that. Like I said, it doesn't take much to reveal people's true feelings of a group, especially like the Jews, or blacks as well, in the US. People use all sorts of covers and agendas to hide their true intent. If you would like to begin to discuss on Iraq, feel free in another forum as it warrants much attention.
So, to restate, a discussion of the swastika runs the risk of bringing up just the kind of anti-Jewish sentiment that is so easily and lazily brought up. I don't have a problem with the swastika being used in India if it is used as traditionally meant, however a discussion outside of India, which this is, is only sensical if discussing the historic "miserable" experience that you casually mention.
On a broader point, which is relevant here, it is easy to focus on one's own life, whether that of a Christian, Muslim, Jew or Hindu without concerning yourself or putting yourself in the shoes of another. If a person is truly interested in abolishing hate and is without prejudice, a clear interest in understanding the painful history of another culture will proceed. If not, irrelevant and hateful comments revealing other agendas and hate will surface.
People are typically self-involved and don't look outside their own plight. Note the struggle in Darfur, the Holocaust, the Bosnian massacre, the cruelty of American slavery and segregation... you name it. There are few that have the intelligence and courage to truly SEE outside of their world and parental teachings. If raised in a white supremacist environment, hatred of blacks is rife. If in a Serbian neighborhood, hate of the Croats. The list goes on.
There is the rare story of one person separating from the herd throughout history (i.t., Sugihara in Japan, Martin Luther King, Jr, etc etc etc) who questions the cruelty and makes a stand. Not to hate another group in return (hence, becoming your enemy), but by bridging the gap through intelligent, honest dialogue and true efforts for understanding and peace. I feel far too often, in the case of Arafat and his dishonest stance taken at the Oslo conference, his interest in "peace" was covering his hateful agenda of killing Israelis with no end in sight. Wanting a piece of land is understandable, but with the end goal of peace. When hate and destruction is the agenda hidden by an interest in “peace”, peace will never come. Words are useless often...the actions that follow are the truth.
Why is it that one Pole will only speak up now stating some responsibility for a mass burning of Jews in a boarded up building in a small town? Because people are sadly predictable and hate is the easy way out and people typically want to "fit in" even if that means following the herd to commit heinous acts that will be punished in the hereafter. So, friedclyde, if you truly have goodness in your heart, you will attempt to understand my side. If you'd like to reveal your honest feelings and refute my current perception, feel free.
If you return with personal attacks, this is not rising to the occasion. I am interested in the past and present use of the swastika as I was unaware of the wide use in India. I am only seeking to understand. -
Thanks. I'll be sure to check out your blog.
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a bad Omen~ -
It is a symbol. In other words, it is a signifier with a given meaning. This meaning is given to it by those who view it. To somebody who is familiar with the swastika from Nazi Germany, it is a terrifying symbol. To a Hindu person, it is a good luck charm. My understanding is that there is historically no real distinction between backwards and forwards swastikas, this only came after Hitler used it. Remember that symbols are used as propaganda.
A swastika is meant to represent a spinning sun, along with all the vibrance and energy associated with sunshine.
It is senseless to censor swastikas, it is better to educate people on its different meanings and all the relevant uses of the swastika. This way, you defuse those who wish to wear swastikas for the wrong reasons. If you forget about the past, you run the risk of repeating it. -
for those who dare give a look to this link their is hitler theme bar in lots of country!!
www.who-sucks.com/people/dining-with-hitler-in-asia-hitler-themed-bars-rest... -
their is three sides to every stories
your, mine and the truth!
some of you maybe shock but as you can see some people can tell everything on everyone it's only a matter of how you see it and hot you show it! truth is not the same for everyone
here is a perfect example this video show Hitler as saint ans try to explain whats have happening using a different view!
click this link and take 8 minute to watch all the video it's very interesting (and no i don't endorse all whats is explain in the video this is only an example of a different view!)
www.youtube.com/watch?v=vz_BGcdRYZI -
www.flickr.com/photos/silvery/143053448/
Google Map satellite pic of a swastika-shaped building on a US Navy base in Coronado, CA, has been making its rounds on the internet. According to some sources, the building is part of the training facilities for Navy Seals, and is perhaps their barracks. It's nicknamed "The Seals Lair". -
it is an old Tibetan and Sanskrit sign but Hitler hijacked and reversed it....-
Exactly
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mirror recovered from a shipwreck; from around 700ad, Tang Dynasty China:
definitely examples of it's use much, much earlier than this too.
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