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Hypothetical Situation--What Would YOU Do?
Posted by melindaville • 8/18/09 • Subscribe to this Discussion [RSS] • Report This Topic
Topics: conmen, hypothetical situations, scummy men, women falling in love with scummy men
Okay--so this is the situation. I was introduced to a man's blog by a fellow blogger some time ago--a blog that I used to follow quite a bit.
Well, long story short, I found out recently that this male blogger (the one I referred to originally) is a guy who's actually been collecting women out there in the blogosphere--who have been sending him money! He's gotten at least two women to fall in love with him, without telling either one about the other--and one of these women has given him close to 3,000--and the other has probably given him close to 10,000.
How I got involved with knowing these two women is that one of the women saw my name and blog URL on the scummy guy's comments and she contacted me--she knew I was a psychologist and she wanted my impression on some emails he'd sent to her. I became very convinced that he was someone who was a con--displaying some sociopathic behaviors--and then the other woman came into light--it's likely there are more but I don't know who they might be.
So, my question is this: I know a few women who follow his blog still. Should I warn them about this guy? Is this any of my business? Or should I let people figure things out for themselves?
What would you do if you were me? My husband says this is like "natural selection" at work--that if people are dumb enough to give this conman money, then it's on them. But as a woman who has been taken advantage of in the past by scummy men, I feel I should interfere.
User Comments
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I'd warn them. -
i'd tell them but anyone dumb enough to get caught in this guy's web desearves it. people you have a brain, use it!!!!! i would never, ever, ever send $$ to some guy I am dating so someone online is just out of the question. i'd like to know who it is though. can u give me the link? i want to know what he said to get these dummies hooked? -
Good to know, BW and Lolita. I think I shall take a poll on this thread. Your comments and suggestions will determine my destiny--so be careful!
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Who is this guy? Expose him!-
thank you!
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*whistles innocently* -
Hey DB did you cash that cheque yet????
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Not everyone who "falls for" this kind of stuff is "dumb"...some people are really just overly trusting. I think it's fair to let them know...no one deserves to get scammed, no matter how obvious it seems.-
Good point, Lotusb!
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I couldn't have said it better, lotusb! -
I'd agree with that - some people are vulnerable to a particular kind of appeal, and I don't think it's really intelligence alone. We're all emotionally vulnerable in some way, and a good predator will know how to pick his/her prey.
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This is a tough one because unfortunately women in that circumstance often don't want to or don't have the strength to see the truth. Drew Peterson is engaged for the fifth time...
I think that if they are women you know, I would pass along information to them, strictly in the form of facts without any editorializing.-
I only know a few people who are following his blog--but I do feel like I should warn them.
He actually tried hitting on me--even knowing I was married--but of course, I couldn't be less interested. I actually stopped going to his blog since he hit on me--but then one of the women contacted me. -
@Melinda
I think that if they are women you know, I would pass along information to them, strictly in the form of facts without any editorializing.
I agree with MadameX. -
Hi TT! Nice new picture! You are making me dizzy with all these changes! I agree with MadameX too. I am going to email the women I know who follow his blog. I wish I could post an anonymous announcement on his blog warning all the other women!
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I think that it might behoove the women who "might" have been conned - to create blog postings about what they've done for the guy - WITHOUT putting the notation that they've been conned... Just as an INFORMATIONAL point.
Do these women who you know - do they know each other?
I think it might be a generous thing for you to introduce them - and advise them that they would have a LOT in common since they are BOTH such good friends of "SO-N-SO"...
I would let them work it out amongst themselves.
*grin*
Because you know that these two women have given this guy money - then they could be "in love" and NOT know about each other.
I think they ought to post their "TRUE LOVE" for this guy - saying things like: I love him so much and I'm his only love - so I sent him XXX$$$$ - I know he loves ONLY me...
LOL!
Then I'd post all those links every where - and send that link to all the people who might be involved - quite possibly having them introduce this information to all the other women that they might know.-
Hi Wager Witch--nice to see you--and I hope your band is going well.
The scummy conman was actually dumb enough to tell one of the women about the other one--he told her that the other was a 'past relationship' --that they had broken up. However, the woman who sent me the emails for evaluation found the other woman on Twitter. They have been exchanging emails and both know about the other.
And of course, the two are furious with him. It's quite a lot of drama.
And the scummy con man found out that they have talked too. . .I am just worried about all the other women out there who don't know he is such a jerk!
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I'd warn them but also remember that they are all adults and they may not listen or want to listen, sometimes for some women a con-man is better than no man a'tall.-
That's so very true. I have know women who will not give up their "con-men".
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Very true. Some women love that type of thing. Go figure.
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Absolutely warn them and expose him!
Those who listen will appreciate it and those who don't......well you did what you could!
oooh but you must email me with the particulars -
I think so too, Cathy. I'm at least going to tell the women who I know follow his blog. I actually told one of them already--but there are about 4 others that I think I need to fill in. Just in case!
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The more women you can protect, the better. Definitely warn them ...
I'd almost go so far as alerting the local police of this cad's activities. I bet they'd be interested!! -
He's actually in another country . . . so I don't know if that's possible. I did email all the women that I introduced him to. I wish I never had!
But he seemed so nice at first.
Les tells me I am WAY too trusting of people. You'd think I would know better with all I've been through--but I am still curiously naive and trusting, regardless of what all I've been through.
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This is an interesting way to "get paid to blog."-
He's made more money than most bloggers too. The scummy scum!
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Hypothetically....of course!
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I would disclose. I would also expose. Keeping silent makes you an accessory, allows him to continue victimizing women and may even encourage him to escalate.-
I agree, SV. You guys have convinced me.
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Melinda....did you happen to see Dateline NBC last night? Probably not, or you wouldn't be asking this question! Warn them!-
No, I didn't see Dateline last night. I was on my way home from Maine.
Might they go the way of your beloved's deceased wife? I think he IS a sociopath--I am just not sure he is a murdering sociopath!
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You have my husband totally wrong, though--he's such a wonderfully caring man, who does so many good things for people. And constantly.
However, in this particular situation--when you are talking about people falling in love and doing things in the name of love (giving money) then he feels I have no business interfering. I happen to agree with you--but if you knew what a sweetheart my husband really was, you would never say such a thing.
My husband is an engineer by trade--he is VERY logical. To such a logical engineer--these women's behavior just make ZERO sense to him. He often sees things as logical/illogical--and he sees them as being entirely illogical. -
"but if you knew what a sweetheart my husband really was, you would never say such a thing"
I've never met the man, and you know him intimately, so of course, you know him far better than I do.
"My husband is an engineer by trade--he is VERY logical. To such a logical engineer--these women's behavior just make ZERO sense to him."
I'm a mathematician who branched into engineering. Mathematicians deal in pure logic, and I didn't judge those women so harshly. But this discussion is largely taking place in a vacuum - having not seen the blog of which you speak, I'm not entirely sure of what it was, that the women were reacting to. Could you give me the url? -
Sorry--I really cannot do that (give the link). I don't want to expose this man on this thread--this was not the purpose of the discussion.
It's not as though my husband sees a crime occurring--these women fell in love with him. They CHOSE to give him money. No one forced them to do this. My husband doesn't believe in getting involved in other people's love relationships--and I don't entirely disagree with him, which is why I am asking people's opinion here. -
"Sorry--I really cannot do that (give the link)."
Let me see if I have this straight. LolitaV asks you for the url, and you send her a PM. I ask you for exactly the same piece of information, and you refuse.
Well, as much as I do enjoy being publicly snubbed - and really, who wouldn't - I find that I've completely lost interest in your problem, and indeed, in anything else you will ever post. As a small personal favor to me, would you agree to an arrangement under which you will stay out of my threads and I will stay out of yours, and that we shall neither speak to or of each other, ever again? Or at least, not until after the sun burns out?
I spoke up in response to one of your concerns, and this is the reception I got, so I'd like to pass on getting to know you any better than I already have. Fair enough? -
Joe you have only just walked into these forums, does melinda even know who you are? -
"Joe you have only just walked into these forums, does melinda even know who you are?"
How well should she need to know me to send me an url for a blog that she didn't even write? Sorry, but I don't buy the idea that one should have to be on one's way to becoming one of the in-kids to see a little basic civility. -
"yeah, who is this joedumpy?"
Case in point. -
I wasn't asking you to buy anything, I was asking how well you knew Melinda, that is all.
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@joedunphy
Melinda said: "Sorry--I really cannot do that (give the link). I don't want to expose this man on this thread--this was not the purpose of the discussion."
Perhaps accepting that and moving on is the way to go. I know her. She means what she says and her "no" means "no".
Also Melinda is warning women.
Unless your name is misleading you are a man. -
"I wasn't asking you to buy anything, I was asking how well you knew Melinda, that is all."
Point asked and answered, even if I'm left wondering if you understand the colloquialism of "buying" an idea. You do know that this doesn't involve money changing hands, right? -
"Melinda is warning women. Unless your name is misleading you are a man."
In other words, we're all equal, but some of us are more equal than others, depending on our chromosomes. Got you. Nothing sexist about that, at all.
I think I'm beginning to get an idea of what kind of forum this is, and I don't believe that I want to have any further part of it. -
Ahh so now you insult my intelligence or lack of it? Charming.
You are going to be popular here. -
Hmmm ... I'm considering using the BLOCK feature for the very first time.
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All I have to say here is that Joe, you seem to have jumped to a large conclusion that Melinda even sent the URL to Lolita in her PM. How do you know the PM didn't say "Hey here's what's happening...blah, blah, blah, but I still can;t share the URL with you." I'm not saying that is what was said, but how do you know it's not.
Also, why in the world are you coming down so hard on her for not wanting to share information with you. If she does not know you and does not know what you might do with information she provides, why should she be obligated to share it with you? The online world is full of people who aren't who they say they are or have alterior motive we aren't aware of. So, why not err on the side of caution.
I think your the severity of your reaction is a bit severe, IMHO and one that makes our members question your motives here. -
Duly noted Jay in my comment below. LOL!
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@Joe--and one word--I do not agree to not posting in threads, or in posting to you, if I should so choose. You are free to block me--but this is a public forum and I will go where I want on it, and speak to whomever I wish to.
I think you have a heck of a lot of nerve--not to mention one gigantic chip on your shoulder.
If you should ever have the *great pleasure* of knowing me--then you'd also realize that I don't ever take well to people telling me what to do. It's really never worked for me!
Have a good, unbalanced day!
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Melinda pluzzzzz let me have the link? i want to see who this Casanova is.
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Lolita--I sent you a PM.
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If you do get involved be prepared for the drama that will ensue. I would probably pass on the facts though myself.
Just don't let the shit storm hit you, if you can help it -
That's kind of what worries me also. And if he finds that I am warning women away from him, he might try to hurt me professionally. The universities I teach for still don't know about my past/book/blog (at least I don't think they do). I am planning to talk to my department chairs to let them know about my past/book/blog, etc. I'm just not quite ready to let them know just yet.
And I was dumb enough to tell this jerk where I taught when I thought he was my friend! I realized afterward that I probably shouldn't have. But he does know ONE of the universities that I teach for. He could cause me problems if he wanted to. -
Hmmm that is a worry melindy, I am not sure you should get involved personally.
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Yeah I'd warn these women. They might not listen but at least you did what your conscience says.-
I agree, CMF. I have decided to take MadameX's advice and send them a factual email. I think they should not pass along his blog to other women either.
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Please be very cautious when it comes to stating the facts. Also do not respond to those unaffected people who wish you to expose him on a forum like this one.
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Yes, I will. I'm actually torn. I wish I hadn't told him where I worked! I'm a dummy--that's natural selection at work (ha ha ha!).
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Definitely warn them. You have nothing to lose by warning others. And it could make a big difference to someone. -
I agree that should warn any other women that you know that follows his blog. You never know when someone is vulnerable and might fall for a scum-bag like that. Also, if you know the women that he already conned you should try to convince them to press charges, it's the only way to stop that type of guy.-
I have actually sent the women I introduced to his blog a note telling them what I know about him. I'm not going to out him to everyone--but I do feel a responsibility for those women that I introduced him to.
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If they are not your clients, you should not warn them. I'd rather go with your client and advise them to take legal steps against this person, if possible. -
It's kinda like the married friend who's husband you saw with another woman. If you tell, your a good friend. If she stays you look like a fool for trying to tear them apart. At least that's what happen to me. I believe in natural selection too. I'd listen to my husband ( ducking at all of the stones about to be thrown)...-
LOL, fair enough--I am definitely interested in all opinions.
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You could let it go ......... OR you could leave a comment for him asking him pointedly about this situation. If he deletes your comments then you could leave a copy of it the next day and the next day ... eventually, some of his lady friends is bound to see it. Warnings are thoughtful but you cannot save the world. There are tons of men and women who use others for their own gain. Unfortunate but very common. -
As long as you have solid evidence...i would warn people. As kcav said, it could make a big difference to someone.
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Well, I have the solid evidence of the two women who were conned. I know both of them quite well at this point--and I do believe that they gave him money and were played by him.
Also, this particular guy actually tried to use me also--right before I heard about what he did with them, I was having bad feelings about him. He's a guy who will use anyone he can for his own gain.
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There are several guiding principles which should guide behaviour on the web:
1. Never give money to people you don't know; this can be suspended if you're referring to Ebay or Amazon.
2. Be careful who you trust.
And as you can see, these principles are precisely the same as they are in real life.
Melinda, I believe that your approach at present is precisely the right one: if someone asks, then you can say it in confidence. The problem with saying it in public is that you have to start using weasel words to avoid saying things which could be construed as defamation of character. The individual in question has none, but that's beside the point.
If however, you can find the appropriate formulation, then by all means tell.-
I agree, GC! That's what I have done. I privately emailed the women I introduced to him--I think that's my responsibility. The rest is not.
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@greencurmudgeon
The problem with saying it in public is that you have to start using weasel words to avoid saying things which could be construed as defamation of character. The individual in question has none, but that's beside the point.
Exactly and extremely well said.
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I hear of this thing going on quite a bit - he isnt an ex athlete or sports person by any chance?
To answer your question - I would sell him out, but dont make it public. He'll only move on to the next media fad under a different alias if he gets found out.-
No Sam--he's just a guy with a way with words. He's good at them too--he sucked me in for a while (not romantically--I am happily married). But he did try to get me to send him a lot of money once!
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JoeDunphy - I personally think you've gone up in arms and took a personal insult where there was none intended.
This particular forum IS about sharing opinions, thoughts and ideas.
Melinda does not know you - for all she knows, you could (COULD) be the very same individual whom she is speaking of... Just trying to see if he can manipulate a way to be considered the "poor victim" - or starting a warpath plan... Etc.
Whereas Melinda does know Lolita through this forum, for several conversations, topics, opinions and more.
I believe you have jumped too quickly to assumptions, not knowing the core group of individuals involved in this conversation.
As a new individual to the forums, I welcome you.
To this particular issue - I hope you actually step aside for a moment and logically look at the points.
You are very welcome to your own opinion - which all of us are. And hopefully you will find that we are an excellent group of people who enjoy working together and learning from, sharing with and helping others.-
As usual, WW--you nailed it!
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You are incredibly out of line to say anything about my husband--when you have no idea of who I am or what my life has been like.
I will tell you this--my husband is ten times the man you will ever dream of being. He doesn't ever insult people as carelessly as you have on this thread--nor is he ignorant enough to jump to stupid, wrong conclusions about people when he doesn't have a real clue as to what he is talking about.
You BARGE onto this thread, demanding information--when NO ONE knows you from Adam. Why in the heck should I give you a link to this person's blog? That was never the intent of this thread. I asked people's opinion--and while giving yours, you insulted the best man I have ever known: my husband. A person who gives more money to charity in a single year than you probably make in ten years. A man who would gladly give the shirt off his back to help anyone--and a man who has helped so many women. You just have no idea.
I hope for your sake that you are a little more graceful in your communications with others than you have been on this thread. You have really shown YOUR true colors--and I have to say, I have a great idea of what kind of man *you* are. I've known men like you--angry, virulent men, who like to overpower women.
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@joe Always with the cliquish quips when someone jumps in on someone else's behalf, no one dare show any sense of being friends.
You spent time writing that for what reason? -
wp
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Hypothetically speaking..
Do you still have the email addresses of these ladies? -
I do--and I have actually emailed them--thanks in no small part to the input on this thread. I am not going to 'out' this guy--but I do feel a responsibility to warn the women I introduced to him--to let them know what I have learned that he did. I already heard from 1 of the women--who told me she already suspected the guy to be a con!
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I wanted to email them and hypothetically ask for money. The idea is that we 'roleplay' them saying no to me when I ask them for money. If they fail to say no, I'm willing to apply some tough love by grudgingly taking their money from them.
Yeah, it's a nasty job but someone has to do it. I consider it my good deed for the day. -
ha ha ha ha ha, FP--you are too funny. That really got me laughing good--thank you. I needed that after this Joe character got my panties in a bunch.
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No charge.
For now. -
Oh sure! I know you've got your Pay Pal dingus right there!
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We don't have PayPal in my country. My dingus only takes Visa or MasterCard.
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Well, then, you're already working the system, aren't you?
You really don't have PayPal in South Africa? (that is where you are right?). I thought PayPal was available even on Mars! -
I don't know, looks like it might be possible now? Last time I checked, it wasn't. That was about a year ago.
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I actually think PayPal is available everywhere now. Now don't you go abusing it!
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We can BUY stuff with PayPal in South Africa, but we cannot receive money into our PayPal accounts...not even refunds.
I think the PayPal folks are geographically challenged and don't realize that Africa is not just one monolithic entity, with Nigeria as its capital... -
Nigeria is not our capital? Wait until my pet lion hears about this!
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I'd stay out of it, don't get side tracked for people that probably wouldn't do it for you. Go write a book or something ;-)-
;-) Rozie--count on you to be the voice of reason, my friend!
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It just makes sense, people always reach out when they want something.
Where were they when needed? If they were getting hurt physically, I'd be the first to jump in, but stupid is as stupid does, something like that. lol
I have to look out for my pals though, and you were getting deep into a time waster.-
Well, I do feel it is/was my responsibility to warn the women whom *I introduced* to this scumbag. I had to tell them what I'd learned about them--and I did. As far as outing him to the general population--I can't do that. I have made amends to the people I (unwittingly) introduced him to--and that's the right thing to do.
People like this guy are dangerous--they really are. Conmen are not like normal people--they are sociopaths. Some sociopaths are so dangerous they become serial killers--it's hard to know the extent a sociopath will go because they don't have the normal human emotions that guide most of us, such as compassion, empathy, guilt, remorse, etc. These two women who gave him their money--as well as their hearts, they could be lucky that this is all they lost. With people like him--who is a bundle of serious personality disorders--they could have potentially lost much, much more.
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If he's a con man, turn it over to the authorities. Some resources for Internet fraud:
www.ic3.gov/default.aspx
www.ic3.gov/crimeschemes.aspx
www.usa.gov/Citizen/Topics/Internet_Fraud.shtml
www.fbi.gov/majcases/fraud/internetschemes.htm
www.usdoj.gov/criminal/cybercrime/reporting.htm-
Now, that's helpful, gtally. Thanks for sharing resources.
...and Melinda, please know that whatever choice you make, you are supported.
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I would turn him in without a second thought. Same thing if it were a women and the shoe was on the other foot. It's wrong and he should be held accountable for his actions. -
Given the circumstances you describe, your personal protection must take precedence to helping these other unsuspecting and potentially gullible women. This unscrupulous individual knows where you work. You could find yourself dealing with something much worse than a simple con man if you let loose on him publically. I think privately contacting the women you referred to his blog and warning them is the best (and only) course of action. My opinon. Good luck, M.-
Hi Cindy--thanks--and that's just what I did. And interestingly enough--the women were not surprised--they were all somewhat put off by things he'd said to them in the last few months. They didn't realize he was as scummy as to use women but they just felt something wasn't quite right with him.
People with these types of severe personality disorders are usually able to fool people--but only for a while. Soon, their total self-absorbtion becomes very obvious to most people (except women who seem drawn to sociopaths).
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Well stop introducing scumbags to people. lol
Cragslist introduced me to a Job, I wasted a year trying to help and teach these people. Now, I have no job and they have no business. I can't blame Craigslist. I took the forward steps after the introductions.
Just an example.-
Oh, believe me--I had no idea he was such a scumbag at first. I am very trusting of people, which is surprising for all I have been through. Les always tells me I am far too trusting.
After awhile, though, it became obvious that something was off with this guy--I had actually stopped visiting his blog and talking to him because he tried using me (very obviously). I was not surprised when this one woman contacted me and I learned all he had been up to.
I did contact the 3 women I introduced him to--and as I mentioned above, they were not surprised either. Like I said above, people like him can fool others for only a short amount of time--their self-absorbed, psychic vampire ways become obvious within a short amount of time!
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Scumbags are everywhere, the net is filled with little pricks who in real life would not stand up to anyone face to face. It's a breeding ground for these scumbags.
Sometimes I miss the good old days, Smack!!! (no not that kind he he)-
Oh, LOL! I agree--the Internet is a breeding ground for predators AND bullies. These are the eople who are too cowardly to do anything face-2-face, though.
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doesn't sound like a hypothetical situation
If people seek your advice, you should feel free to give your honest opinion, and in this case warn your women #1 friend or client. Although, I probably think that unless your opinion was asked in a public venue, such as this, it might not be prudent of you to repeat your opinion in a public forum .. (privacy, confidentiality, etc)
I don't think it's right to "warn the people" about something you think is happening .. you really don't know exactly what is true ..or not true. If you personally introduced the women to this guy, however, it's probably in your right to "warn the women" about your suspicions. // (which you say you did above) -
i'd warn them. especially if you beleive in karma!-
I did warn them. I warned the women I introduced him to--so I am at peace with that.
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