Discussions
BC Discussions: I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together.
Posted by Jaybetee • 8/25/09 • Subscribe to this Discussion [RSS] • Report This Topic
Topics: attacks, posting rules, rumors
There are some issues that have been popping up lately concerning the discussions here on BC and I want to give you my take from the admin side:
BC discussion areas are a place for members to gather and discuss topics that interest them. They are not meant to be an arena in which to air personal differences. As per the posting rules any threads that attack other members will be removed and the attacker will be held accountable.
There are discussion topics, like religion and politics, that are inherently controversial because people have differing views that they are quite passionate about. I would hope that you are all mature enough to discuss/debate these and other topics without resorting to personal insults...although my hope is slowly fading. Please just treat each other with respect even if you do not agree. Personal attacks will not be tolerated from anyone and do nothing to foster an intelligent discussion.
Also, bloggers who violate the site's posting rules are notified of the violation by the admin team via the shoutbox. There is no need for BC members to provide posting instructions to other members in the discussions. Many members find this condescending and rude, and the admins are more than capable of handling the situation in a more discreet manner. We would ask that you simply report any objectionable content and let us handle the situation--including informing members about posting rules and why their comment was moderated.
Thanks and play nice!
User Comments
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BC discussion areas are a place for members to gather and discuss topics that interest them. -
Thank you.
Although - I don't find people telling others that they may have violated something as "wrong" or condescending. I actually find it to be helpful. Because it is like being out with friends who say "Oh my gosh don't step out on the street - there's a bus coming!" LOL!
Anyhow Jay - hopefully everyone will play nice.-
I totally understand. We just get complaints about it. I think some people feel it's like being made an example of by a teacher in front of the class, rather than being informed of their mistake in a more subtle way.
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I think most of these complaints come from a small select group who are carrying out a vendetta against a particular member. -
I would disagree and can tell you that over time we have received complaints from many different members letting us know that they thought our shout was enough.
It ties in directly with what NP said below...members do not want to be told by other members what to do or how to act. As admins we are in the position to make moderation decisions and inform members about those decisions. -
I concur with stillthinking. Those who have wounded pride when they are told they forgot to post an actaul promotion in the OP of a Shameless Blog Promotion thread are few in number. IMO most mature adults have no difficulty with being pointed to a thread that describes what's expected. -
Well, as I stated her thinking is still incorrect
(like that wordplay? I thought it was clever.) -
Jay,
I think you also need to realize that this group regularly engages in outside defamation of not only this particular member, but any BC member who associates with them. The defamation they engage in is indexed on Google and freely visible to anyone.
I think that BC has become home to many mentally ill individuals and I am going to take an extended break from the forum. -
Look. BC Admin is ineffectual when it comes to taking a leadership role and actually functioning when it comes to monitoring this forum and dealing with violations swiftly and decisively.
There is no need for BC members to provide posting instructions to other members in the discussions.
It's obvious this thread is aimed at me as I'm offering corrections to other members. Fore example on Shameless Blog Promotions. I don't see you or any other Admin member make any efforts to orientate and educate new members with regard to how this site works and what the guidleines are.
Members get welcoming emails when they have been approved. They do not get links to or copies of the Community guidelines for forum posting and the TOS.
The idea that it would be perfect if we all became silent button clickers is a great one, provided that there is an Admin member on the other end of the report button who responds promptly but that's not what's happening here at all. -
Wow, Still and TT. Actually this thread was not aimed at anyone in particular. All I said in the OP is that we have received complaints about this issue. These complaints were not directed at any one member and did not come from a select group. How either of you feel you have enough information about our admin system or reporting system to jump to these conclusions is baffling. I can assure you that TT is not the only one letting members know what the rules are and is not the only one who has been referenced in complaints.
TT, you don't see it because it is done via private shouts. Like I stated, we'd rather communicate with members more discreetly. The point is to contact them personally and not tell them what they're doing wrong in a public setting. -
I also agree with Stillthinking.
And that vendetta is spreading as they start accusing that member of having more than one account.
Personally, J, I think rather than locking a thread in which the issue is being discussed and at least one of the miscreants is being called on to justify the lies he is spreading about at least two members, your efforts would be better directed towards the misbehaviour of those miscreants themselves.
I'm not keen on being dehumanized and marginalized by having by very existence denied, but apparently that's much less objectionable than demanding the person spreading the lie...who has actually admitted to committing the very offense of which he accuses TT (and thereby denies my very existence)...to stop lying and apologize for his offence.
I was offended before...I am doubly offended now! -
Jay - the whole reason they think that - is because of the recent threads that have been around and some of the comments.
It was not an unreasonable assumption. So don't take it personally, especially if you did NOT mean it to be about TT.
I'm glad you clarified your outpost. -
These complaints you receive arise from issues. The issues IMO stem from the beginning of becoming a member here. Admin does not provide new members with copies of the guidelines when they are approved as members. Admin does not discuss the interpretations of those guidelines with new members when they arise in threads. The new members do not know what they are doing and are stumbling around the site in the dark.
Rather than publicly teaching anyone anything so that all members can learn by reading the thread you have made it clear that you want to deal with these issues by shoutbox. IMO that's the same old, same old that hasn't worked well in the past and isn't working now -- so be it. It's your call to make. -
Actually, the complaints arise because members want to know why they are being told what to do by other members. The posting rules are at the top of the discussion board for all to see. If someone does not read them then, as I stated before, we do contact members via private shouts to let them know that there are rules and they have been violated.
None of these issues are being brought up because of one post, one member, one thread. They are all ongoing issues that I've been dealing with ever since I started moderating discussions.
Just because I posted this today does not mean that it ties in with any recent happenings. I could list numerous occasions involving a good number of members that relate to the issues mentioned. -
Why don't you come sit next to us here and see how much time we spend moderating the site. I would not call it infrequent.
Also, I don't know what the huge problem is here. I basically said how about we stop attacking each other. If you don't you will be dealt with. How about we try to discuss topics, even the controversial ones, in a respectful manner. How about we stop calling people out in the forums and let the admins do the job of informing people when they have made a mistake.
I have informed members when they do something wrong both in and out of discussions. I prefer to handle things one on one most of the time, however. I think it is more polite. Plus people tend not to like to be called out in public and I respect that. If you disagree with my style, then you disagree...no biggie. -
I have nothing more to say to you. This is why. You removed my comment during our conversation. That to me means that your don't really wish to enter a dialog. You just want to state your stuff in the OP, stand on it and defend the current way Admin functions. It's the same old, same old. It's your call -- you made it -- same old, same old.
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IMO the way moderation/monitoring of the BC forums is being conducted now could be improved.
IMO Admin entering open discussion with members with regard to which changes ought to be considered to the way moderation/monitoring of the BC forums is being conducted would be of benefit to the community.
IMO the BC members who post to this forum could benefit from the services of an on the board Admin member, who can and will deal with breaches of the community guidelines and/or TOS on the spot, in real time whenever possible.
IMO the BC members who post to this forum could benefit from Admin members, who politely make corrections in threads as they arise, so the entire community can benefit from the knowledge gained in that "teachable moment" by reading what the corrections were.
IMO Admin's inability or reluctance to deal swiftly and effectively with malicious rumor mongering, and with defamatory comments being posted into forum threads indicates a need for policy change.
And as nothing I have said in this comment box has violated either the community guidelines for forum posting or the BC TOS I do not expect to see it deleted. -
I removed your previous comment because it had naughty words in it. the ones you said shouldn't be allowed in the forum. i thought you'd appreciate the irony.
"IMO the way moderation/monitoring of the BC forums is being conducted now could be improved."
That had been noted several times. Thanks for reiterating once more though.
IMO Admin entering open discussion with members with regard to which changes ought to be considered to the way moderation/monitoring of the BC forums is being conducted would be of benefit to the community.
I think I did this not too long ago. in fact i know I did because I received several great comments, which have been included in changes that the team has been discussing.
IMO the BC members who post to this forum could benefit from the services of an on the board Admin member, who can and will deal with breaches of the community guidelines and/or TOS on the spot, in real time whenever possible.
This is done...whenever possible.
"IMO the BC members who post to this forum could benefit from Admin members, who politely make corrections in threads as they arise, so the entire community can benefit from the knowledge gained in that "teachable moment" by reading what the corrections were."
We prefer to have our teachable moments be one on one most of the time for the reasons I explained above.
"IMO Admin's inability or reluctance to deal swiftly and effectively with malicious rumor mongering, and with defamatory comments being posted into forum threads indicates a need for policy change."
I believe that we deal swiftly to all the matters that are brought to our attention and we, IMHO, have to spend way so much time dealing with petty grudges, grade-school-type rumors and figuring out who said what about who. I mean it takes hours of research sometimes to find out what a dispute stems from, who started it, who's right, who's wrong, who needs to be removed, who needs to be suspended. Granted disputes are inherent on a discussion board, but the way the members on this board carry grudges and spend so much time insulting and attacking one another is crazy. Don't you all have more productive things to do that pick fights amongst yourselves?
And as nothing I have said in this comment box has violated either the community guidelines for forum posting or the BC TOS I do not expect to see it deleted.
Oh I wouldn't think of it! -
In reponse to your edited comment, TT, "I concur with stillthinking. Those who have wounded pride when they are told they forgot to post an actaul promotion in the OP of a Shameless Blog Promotion thread are few in number. IMO most mature adults have no difficulty with being pointed to a thread that describes what's expected."
Well I lend more weight to facts than IMO's. And, the fact is that while some people don't take issue with it, a fair number of people do not like being corrected in a public forum. I am the one who reads the emails that get sent here and I'm the one who hears about how people no longer want to engage in the discussions or how they felt the situation should have been handled differently.
I made a simple request based on the opinions shared with me by our members and on how we as admins want to deal with situations where members break the rules. I get the fact that you disagree. I got it then and I get it now.
The fact remains that we have had enough complaints about this to address it and so we are asking the community to simply refrain from issuing public corrections. Just report the threads and we will handle it. It's a fairly simple and innocent request.
Even if we as admins choose to address an issue in a forum rather than via shout. it is still coming from an admin and not from another member, and that makes a difference to a lot of people. -
@Jaybetee
I acknowledged from the outset that you have made the call and I will abide by it. I wanted to state my opinions and I did that appropriately and without hostility. Therefore, you can see by my comments made today I can disagree without becoming disagreeable.
No doubt there may be those who look at the "deleted by community" next to my username spots in this thread in the future, and think I may have personally attacked another member, but we know that isn't the case here. No doubt there will be those who may look at this thread in the future and presume I am was experiencing hot anger when I posted; nothing could be further from the truth. -
One more thing I'd like to post here for the record and due to the comment removal is this:
- The "naughty words" were made by another member in another thread which I have reported but still remain in the thread here ___________
I also posted my opinion on the use of crass and vulgar language to describe human sexuality and sex acts into another thread and included the same link above to my point in it. You will find that thread here __________ -
Come on guys, we're all friends here. The Admins of any site will never be able to satisfy everyone but can only attempt to satisfy the majority.
@TT and ST: Jaybetee is attempting to right some wrongs in the way we use the discussion boards. Ok, maybe moderation could be improved but to be honest, I've been here about a month now and I've never seen anything particularly offensive or vulgar. It seems to me that the moderation is working just fine.
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I agree with the point of members not policing other members during discussions. Of course there are exceptions when someone is truly trying to be helpful. When I coached gymnastics I made it a rule that no gymnast was allowed to "coach" any other. That was my job. All the girls being equal one did not like to be corrected by another.-
NP, is there any profession you have not dipped your toe in? The vastness and diversity of your experience is really quite fascinating!
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u were a gym coach??? I found something u might want to read
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Still: Yes, I've been quite a rover. Tried a lot of different things.
Lolita: What's that? -
I like Rovers... Red rover red rover...
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@NothingProFound,
What a GREAT way of wording it.
If you're not the teacher, yet a great student, please do not feel free to slap new students on the hands with a ruler if they are new to the community. IF you're an older and wiser student and want to help the new students from making mistakes and really are trying to help. Please do share your thoughts or suggestions with them in a privately manner (private shout).
As no one like to be corrected in front of the class or made to feel stupid.
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Is there going to be an increase in moderation on the forum then?-
Yes, I would like to know this too. I'm sure you do spend a lot of time moderating the forum, but there are extended periods when it doesn't seem like there is anyone here, so I think it's a little odd to ask us not to advise people when they are breaking rules when there doesn't seem to be a moderator about.
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I think the answer is...............No
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hehe...I think you may be right...
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I volunteer to moderate this here forum for FREE however the question is will you all take me up on my offer? hahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahhahhahahhahahhahhhahhahahahahhaha I got your crazy
and no I'm not serious. I wish I had the time but with my schedule as an Optician I cannot be of any real help, my apologies. -
Sorry guys...had some errand to run and thus the discussion board lost my attention for a bit. At the moment, no I don't think we would be increasing the amount of moderation on the board.
I guess I would ask do you really think it needs a substantial increase? I understand that when someone drops a spammy link, uses vulgar language, or is plain rude, you want to call them out on it. Let me make clear that I'm not asking you to not defend yourself if someone insults you, etc. But in the cases of link droppers and other, less provocative situations I would ask that you just report it. Then we will moderate the comment and inform the user of their breach of the TOS. -
Well Mr JBT you know that I am a fan of the report button, I am self confessed buttonoholic.
I have no idea if people are using it as often as me, or in what context people use it
Most of the time I think it works out just fine, but if you are really emphasising that the report button should be used more often, then doesn't that mean there will be an increase in things to be moderated?
Thanks for getting back to this, much appreciated. -
I see what you're saying. Yes, if more items are reported, then there will be more moderation on this end. I will admit as I have in the past, that it can be difficult for us to keep up with all the discussions and all of the comments. While I scan the discussions throughout the day...sometimes all day...I definitely do not catch everything. If you report a thread or a comment though, I will go look at the entire thread to determine how the comment, or if need be, the thread should be moderated.
As far as the time dedicated to moderation goes, when I have the time I spend it here going through discussions. When we have other projects going on, that time gets cut down a bit, but the boards are still looked at throughout the day. -
Fair enough
/Flexes report finger.
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Jaytebee I agree with your decision to make this more one on one in a private setting via the shoutbox or by email. This is a more professional approach in my view as in the past the other way is not working in my view. The other way causes grievances and more negativity on the public bc discussion platform. It also helps to drive away those who may of had something to say when the pattiwagon police patrol shows up to stomp the battle ground.
This is my view and I am sure not everyone agrees but I am glad that you brought this discussion out so that we can provide our views and have a say even though it may or may not have any ruling on you putting your foot down. I just want to say that I agree with you
and how you are handling the situation here at BC. Glad to have you around even if we don't agree all the time.
And I would also like to say that from a business standpoint a boss does not yell at his employee out in the open, a boss takes an employee in a private setting and explains to him/her what he/she is doing wrong. This is how a professional handles the situation.
I am in agreement with you.-
here, here. -
Well said
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Thanks for taking the time JBT. Asses need to be placed back into their seats, otherwise the admin will never be noticed as the admin. -
I think people get a little carried away with the threads around here. It's good to be reminded often. -
This thread is a perfect example of how personal grievances divert the discussion away from the original point. Jay has informed us, clearly and simply, that many members have complained that they don't like being told what to say or how to act on the forum by other members. He is asking us to please let admin. take care of making these corrections. Sounds like a perfectly reasonable request to me.
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as usual NP, I agree wholeheartedly.
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[applauds N.P.] We have admin. We have the report button (used with admirable zeal by Claire and others. We have the 'block'function. It's not like no one is afraid to use that.
Furthermore, we also seem to have the ability to start whole threads devoted to censuring other members for their bad beahviour, threads devoted to etiquette, threads analysing and debating what constitutes appropriate behaviour on the forums and so on. We even have moments of arguing with each other rationally. Given this: what more could anyone possibly want? That people be publically whipped for their transgressions? That broadcasts be sent from admin saying 'why x is a bad person to whom no one should ever listen? That scarlet letters should be branded into the foreheads of the iniquitous?
Sigh. I also want to see D.B.'s post.
Best,
-Mal.
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Exactly, NothingProfound!!! Jay and the other moderators do a great job here. I also agree with Jeunelle. -
This thread has inspired a blog post.
I think both sides (you know who you are) that have been responding are completely paranoid.-
Can't wait to read your blog post, I'm sure it will amuse me
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Maybe... maybe not
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Lmao
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Kudos to Angie, too! Great moderator.
And Tony! Didn't mean to leave him out.-
; )
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I'm just happy the blue team found that damn flag at last!
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Hilarious....I guess there's hope yet
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Really true.. I sometimes find it funny. People (average) in their 40's act like kids... It doesn't matter even if we play ping-pong or any games but we better not lack understanding & respect.-
yup. 40 year old kids
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Hey...I'm 40! But I'm still a kid at heart. 8-)
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lol ZP at least you don't throw tantrums. The whole forum has become a place where a few do throw tantrums thread after thread demanding things be done/said the way they want it to be or ELSE.
too funny!
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"Can't we all just get along" -- Rodney King (circa 1992)-
"All we are saying is give peace a chance" John Lennon (circa before I was born)
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Peace is not merely a distant goal that we seek,
but a means by which we arrive at that goal.
~Martin Luther King, Jr. -
Give peas a chance instead, much nicer than carrots.
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Jaybetee .. that make no sense .. SHAME ON YOU!!!!!
I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together
The correct lyrics are:
I am here as you are here as you are me and we are all together
Goo goo g'joob-
Ha!
And I just realized I referenced John Lennon in a thread with a title stolen from the Beatles. I think it's a sign...it's time to take a magical mystery tour!
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So,. The correct lyrics are.?????-
So,. The correct lyrics are.?????
Available on the web -- Google it. lol
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To be honest, I've never even noticed any moderator apart from Jaybetee...
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the rest of them work him like a dog
or so he limericks -
There is only one admin, they just use different avatars....
I am joking!!!!!!
/joke alert -
hrmmm...now you got me thinking! -
@claire
like schizophrenia? -
No they just cant be arsed paying anyone else
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Hahahahaha,. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . The best answer,. LOL
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WOW...this thread showed some true colors...
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Well CA True colors....that's why I love you, so don't be afraid to let them show ...true colors
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ALERT *** ALERT *** EVERYONE JUMP INTO THE POOL *** SUMMER IS ALMOST OVER *** COOL OFF NOW !!!
OR IF YOU PREFER GO TO YOUR ROOM AND USE THIS TIME TO THINK CLEARLY. -
I see the whole situation like this...if you'll indulge a long analogy:
A new kid shows up at school and breaks a rule. If the teacher pulls him aside and tells him what he did wrong, then the situation is handled, the child knows what he did wrong and he goes back to class and doesn't get in trouble any more. The situation has been handled and none of his classmates were involved.
Now what if a classmate leans over and says "hey, don't do that because you're breaking the rules?" If that's all that happens and the new kid avoids getting in trouble, then the new student probably thinks the other kid is being nice and helpful.
But, what if the classmate says "Hey you shouldn't do that," and then raises his hand and says, "teacher look what the new kids doing; he's breaking the rules" Now the classmate appears to be a tattle tale and a teacher's pet, neither of which are very popular.
As far as BC goes, I think because new people see their comments removed after members have told them about the rules, they assume that members are not really helping but rather scolding them and then running off and tattling. Maybe it would be viewed differently if there was not a reporting system, but I think as it stands members telling other members what not to do are seen as tattlers that say "don't do that," and then run to admin to report what they did.
So, let us be the teacher and do the disciplining and that way you can all just focus on being friends.-
understood...I am guilty of this sometimes.
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I think it's one of those things where even members who aren't running off and reporting people, but are just genuinely being helpful may still be viewed as "tattlers" because of the way we have the system set up for members to report comments.
If we as admins handle it, then any ill will is directed at us and members can continue discussions without holding grudges about who reported who, etc. I think one of the things bloggers trying to engage in a new community dislike the most is being called out in public for breaking the rules. It makes them feel dumb and not want to participate.
I do think TT made a good point above that maybe the discussion rules should be sent out as part of a welcome email trickle rather than just posted in the forum itself. Of course how many people would read them all I don't know, but it would be a step in the right direction. -
Your points are well taken and duly noted.
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I have said it before and I say it again. Everyone here is an artist ... a creator in his or her way. BlogCatalog is a place whereby we can pour out our creations by word. Our words should be a reflection of what lies deep inside but never uttered at the expense of others. Applying the golden rule before speaking will enable us to always coexist and enjoy each other.
Love from me to you!-
I should have just posted the golden rule and been done with it...maybe we should just replace the entire rules before posting with the golden rule!?! -
We're all so thrilled because you are returned. Let's celebrate!
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Someone mentioned above that it is a small group of people, actually it's only small group that have remained active, they rest have simply moved on.
Ahhhhhhhh hum ti dummmma ding dong so much I would love to add to this conversation, but I think I will continue being a quiet reader as I have been for the last few months.-
I have missed you being about.
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Hi crpitt, I missed being about.
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What Claire said. I agree and have missed you about, also.
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Okay! -
I think the admin are doing a wonderful job. Moderating should be left to the admin, I am guilty of trying to play the role of a mod...
Moderating this board is a full time job and it defiantly needs to be left to the admin. IF we feel like someone is doing something wrong we are given the option to report it. If we all where to quot the rule every time someone does something wrong it would be vary confusing to new members.
I have had two friends that where scared away from BC due to all the members trying to play mod.
Remember: LOVE LOVE LOVE! -
Jay
I had posted an article based on my observations here. A year back I was unfortunately listed as about the 3rd highest poster of comments and posts on the discussions here. Which would probably give you an idea of how much time I have spent here. Probably too much.
However I would like to point out that the post I posted was not a personal attack on any particular person. I have enjoyed Lolita's posts for quite some time and have no issue with her. I do have an issue about the direct linking of this discussion to porn blogs, and I do not consider the person as the blog, nor the opinions of a person. Whereas some others have spammed the discussion boards with tacky porn sites, they have been deleted immediately. I have always liked the way that BC has dealt with what has happened here, but I am very confused about Lolitas porn blog and the failure to delete the related posts from the discussion board.
I am surprised at the change in standards here recently. I did email support to mention my concern. As a teacher of Information Technology, I have had no problems recommending BC to my students in the past, and although I realize that porn is a major part of the web , but the change surprised me here.
There are very few people here I have difficulties with, however I do have a differing opinions on many subjects here , I have generally managed to maintain healthy relationships with most people here.
I find it very important to distinguish the difference between a person and their websites.
Tony-
Healthy and respectful relationships are highly favored.
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Lolita's porn blog. That would make a great name for my next blog. Thanks tony.
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Strange...I always thought Jaybetee was the walrus?
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