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Ideas Matter

Posted by techfun • 2 years ago • Subscribe to this Discussion [RSS]
Topics: election, ideas, politics

So often in the last year much of the focus on the US Presidential election has been the candidates appearance, their wealth, their charisma, and their likability. These attributes seem to have trumped discussion and evaluation candidates IDEAS - particularly ideas that cannot be conveyed in a soundbite.

I am starting a series of posts quoting US Politicians own words and ideas as they have expressed them without naming the politician to see if people find they like ideas without liking the candidate.
Part One is at blog.techfun.org/ideas-matter-volume-1

User Comments

1/30/08

crpitt

Its a great post and has made me really think about paying a bit, if not a lot more attention to the ideas and policies in my own country.

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1/30/08

kdawg68

Ah....so this is where I was "commenter #2."

Great post and definitely a worthwhile excercise.

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1. 1/30/08
  
  techfun
  
  Yep, that was you. You inspired the idea. If you want you kdawg69 with a link there let me know.
2. 1/30/08
  
  kdawg68
  
  sure - I replied to you about that in the other thread. Absolutely 100% okay with me. Oh yes, and thanks for bringing me back to my happy place earlier today. I sooo owe you a beer or something.
  
  Yeungling lager sound good to you?
1/30/08

globalgirl

Just took a quick look, running out the door in a minute. Will look it over later. However, I did see you quoted me... Let me quickly explain that one: I would never make a choice about the Presidency or any leadership or other position based upon looks. However, many people do make such superficial opinions. You know this.

Glad to see your post.

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1. 1/30/08
  
  techfun
  
  Kat, I know you wouldn't make that your criteria, it was just one example among many many many phrases and sentences that caught my attention this morning. I included yours because it was a denial of those traits as criteria.
1/30/08

freeatlast

Just read it and added comment. I think you're on to something. Ideas DO matter. Also CONTEXT matters! My question is, how do you force a culture who is trained to think in black and white, rich and poor, good and bad to look beyond shallow attributes of a candidate. I get seriously tired of how the media exploits the minor, shallow details to sway popular opinion and leaves the devil's dirty details until it is too late... but what is the remedy to this???????!!??? Can you make a country nursed on Saturday morning cartoons, barbie dolls, spiderman and cocoa puffs give a rat's ass about the details... the ideas? Am I just being cynical today? perhaps. Seriously... how do you make people truly listen and care???

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1. 1/30/08
  
  techfun
  
  Thanks for the comment Christine. Please check out your shoutbox... I just messaged you there about your comment.
  
  You are right, it is hard to get people to focus on the details of policy and process. When you let the media or the "experts" frame the debate you mess everything that is outside the margin and that makes elections boring.
2. 1/30/08
  
  freeatlast
  
  Attention span and education and brainwashing, from either side, seems to factor in.
3. 1/30/08
  
  freeatlast
  
  Irony at it's best techfun. thanks.
1/30/08

libdrone

I seem to have caught the contrarian bug from Mark. So I will posit, arguendo

dismantling of the education system + dismantling of the media

= pliable electorate

therefore, in terms of who ends up winning and where they take the country and its government, marketing and image mattter more than Ideas.

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1. 1/30/08
  
  freeatlast
  
  well put
2. 1/30/08
  
  techfun
  
  Not sure I understand what you mean. I have never seen a more pliant electorate than we have now. Are you saying that the media and educational system have already been dismantled, or if that happened we would see things worsen?
  
  Regarding what you said earlier in the secret place where the kool kids hang out, the integrity and will of the candidate matter in terms of getting their ideas implemented, however, right now, people don't seem to KNOW the candidates ideas. In this current situation, there is no way to hold an elected official accountable.
  
  We need to know a clear and comprehensible set of ideas and plans from each candidate so we can tell if they keep their word in office.
3. 1/30/08
  
  freeatlast
  
  Is it possible, as a politician, to be clear and comprehensible? Don't politicians take a vow of vagueness? Marketing and manufacturing skin deep reactions and ideas seems to be where it is at.
  
  I wonder if the candidates ideas will become more concrete and defined the closer we get to the party nominations. Compared to other years, we are still barely in the trenches.
4. 1/30/08
  
  techfun
  
  Many candidates are quite clear and thats quite possible to see with a little digging. Many of the candidates are far clearer in their speeches that you can see online and in their position papers on their websites. The material I wish the media was covering, and they USED to cover better under the Fairness Doctrine (before Reagan's FCC castrated the system) when candidates were guaranteed equal radio and tv time.
5. 1/30/08
  
  libdrone
  
  Yes, in this post I am arguing (for the sake of argument rather than out of deeply held conviction) that the educational and media systems have Already been dismantled to the point the electorate is easily manipulated and the manipulations Do in fact have a much greater effect on the outcomes than Ideas and Ideals and the (certainly essential) character and commitment to implement them.
6. 1/30/08
  
  techfun
  
  Ok, thats kinda what I figured you meant. I think that the news outlets are convinced that people can't or won't follow anything more complicated than "Hillary Cried" or "Obama doesn't wear a lapel pin". Look at the coverage over campaign donations, even that is more in-depth than the actual policies these people want to implement.
  
  I think people, when presented with in depth, detail oriented information they eat it up. Look at Bowling for Columbine and An Inconvenient Truth. Agree or disagree with Moore and Gore, people were willing to sit still for 90+ minutes and listen to information about one topic.
7. 1/30/08
  
  libdrone
  
  well, maybe I been hanging out with the biz and marketing types too much, JD, but that sounds to me awful much like a good business plan for a start up entrepreneur
1/30/08

suburbqueen

Techfun, this is a really interesting concept that will hopefully bring out some honest opinions. Kudos to you!

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1. 1/30/08
  
  techfun
  
  Thanks, I'm hoping for 3 segments a week since I can do them even when I am busy with my real job,
1/30/08

techfun

Since someone already figured it out, the speech was an excerpt from Jimmy Carter's "Report to the American People on Energy" speech from almost 31 years ago on February 2, 1977. Just think how different our lives and dependence on imported oil as well as climate change issues might be now if he had been able to get his policies fully implemented.

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1. 1/31/08
  
  freeatlast
  
  unfortunately, people still think of Jimmy as a bad president... compared to ronald, apparently he just wasn't sexy enough. Just imagine what would have happened if ronald's '80s consumption society hadn't happened. Can barely imagine.
2. 1/31/08
  
  techfun
  
  Yea, it is mind boggling to me. Carter never had a chance with the oil embargo and other economic factors that were not of his making. He was also cursed by having a conscience and a populist soul. If you read through his speeches, or better yet, listen to the mp3's at www.millercenter.virginia.edu/index.php/scripps/digitalarchive/speechDetail... you can see the problem he had relative to everyone who came after, particularly Reagan and GW Bush, but GHW Bush and Clinton too to a lesser degree.
  
  Carter asked people to make personal sacrifices to make the country better and stronger. He was beaten by Reagan who came across as a kinda daddy figure who told people what they wanted to hear. He told people everything would be ok and didn't ask for those same kinds of sacrifice. Carter recognized that any major change to how we live and energy security would have to come from everyday people making better choices and some sacrifices.
  
  Now we have Bush and Cheney and Cheney's famous quote from April 30, 2001 when he said "Conservation may be a sign of personal virtue but it is not a sufficient basis for a sound, comprehensive energy policy." Nobody called Bullshit on him for that. Nobody was suggesting that it should be a basis for an energy policy, just that it should be a part of a good energy policy.
3. 1/31/08
  
  freeatlast
  
  Is it too late to call BULLSHIT! on Cheney? The crazy thing about all this conservation and environmentalism is that i remember as a kid in the 70's... and to a lesser degree in the 90's... and it just seems to get watered down again and again and again. Whatup?!
4. 1/31/08
  
  techfun
  
  Its money. Look at the source. Cheney's whole career outside of government has been in close association with the energy industry. Can you imagine how weird it would have been for someone to step down as head of Halliburton and then suggest that energy conservation was an important part of the US Energy policy he was put in charge of crafting?
  
  And its never too late to call Bullshit!
1/31/08

freeatlast

wrong place

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