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Immigration's hostage crisis
Posted by crazyTsu • 8/19/09 • Subscribe to this Discussion [RSS] • Report This Topic
Topics: immigration
Currently there is a war running in the under-currents of US politics. In fact, it has been so for last 3-4 years. There are pools of people who are for immigration reform, others opposing it. For a great many, immigration is synonymous with an amnesty program for the so-called "illegals"
However in the melee, the legal aliens are the ones worst hit by collateral damage. Because of the internal politics, they are unable to get a long overdue relief from decades of waiting in line.
If the law and the system cannot protect the interests of the people that respect it and abide by it, then IMO it is failing in its duties
Reform should primarily be for the "legals", yet it is "illegals" centered. They have it all wrong. Once they fix the problems with the legal migration there is a good chance the system will cope with the influx of 10 million more people, should they be provided a chance and are willing
Better yet, remove the need for immigration. Allow free flow of labor and offer protection to all. This way employers will have no reason or pretext to exploit anyone by offering low wages or employ non-citizens to save their money. If everyone costs the same, naturally the balance will tilt in favor of the locals
What's your take on it?
User Comments
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Not satisfied with the opinions expressed so far, so bumping it..
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Come on, even a yep, nay, I-dont-know-what-u-r-talking-about will do?
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As the child of people who struggled hard to immigrate (legally) to the US, I am all for legalization for everyone who is in this country regardless of how they came here, if they are hardworking and staying here to better this country and their families.
I am tired of people pointing the finger at immigrants and asking for them all to be deported.
how can this country afford to send +12 Mil people home?
if there were no jobs to be had here (i won't pick fruit, build homes and neither would you) would they be here? no, so blame the employers.
And then I put myself in their position, if i was in a poor country and unable to succeed, get a job or even feed myself, you bet your balls i'd do whatever it takes to enter the US or any other country where I can live a descent life and provide for myself.
thanx for the thread. I am passionate about immigration. -
It seems to me that you've contradicted yourself. First you say that preference should be given and the focus should be on those who have respected and complied with the law, then suggest doing away with the legal process altogether--which would put "legals" and "illegals" in exactly the same position. Do you think that simply eliminating restrictions would be fair to those who have been working their way through the process for years at great expense?-
i don't think restrictions should be eliminated. but as someone who's watched her family go through the process, i can tell you that legal immigrants are all set. once you get your green card, you are fine. but the misconception is that illegal immigrants get "benefits" and are on a fast track to "citizenship" I can tell you that it is not true. illegal immigrants have nothing but under the table jobs that would make any of us angry had we been offered such jobs/pay.
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Lolita, I agree with you completely, especially about the last piece of your post--as a mother, I know that I'd do whatever I had to do to provide for my children, and I hardly see it as a character flaw that these men and women have risked their security and often their lives to do so.
My question was regarding the apparent contradiction between the third and fifth paragraphs of Tsu's original post. -
I said that in an attempt to find a solution that would go down well with everyone. Don't you think all would agree with it?
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no, there is never a solution that will go well with everyone. Unfortunatly.
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No, Tsu, there are a lot of people who wouldn't agree with it. There are many people who believe that we already allow too much legal immigration and should be tightening up the borders, not opening them up. And there are many who believe that those who have already entered this country illegally should be penalized for that and deported.
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Ya, on second thoughts, I have to agree. Public Policy should be very simple, and should not need a lot of imagination for anyone to understand. Or else no matter how good the idea, it is going to meet with opposition and will fail to be implemented
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The problem, Tsu, is that people are trying to solve two different problems. Some people are trying to solve the problem of all of the decent, hard-working people who face unnecessary obstacles every day because they are in this country illegally, while others are trying to solve the problem of how to get all those damned immigrants out of our country. There is obviously no single solution to both of those problems.
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Actually, there *could be a solution. People seek the green card because it means "equal rights" to them. If equal rights could be given without a green card, you wont have as many people trying to get one. How does that sound
Employers choose the right employees and the rest, if they are from outside, relocate or move out because there is free movement and there is no uncertainly of being able to return.
There. No need to force anyone out. They dont feel like staying, they leave.
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Honestly, I think eVerify is the way to go, but that's only a start. I think they should fine companies $100 for every hour they hire an illegal immigrant (per illegal) and use that money to fund our rapidly depleting unemployment budgets. This will also encourage them to leave on their own volition so we don't have to pull a post-WW2 Stalin-esque deportation maneuver.
One of my biggest concerns with illegal immigrants is that they clearly are not screened for TB, polio, smallpox, or any of the other diseases that have been practically eradicated in the USA and they have been infecting citizens. I don't know any statistics behind this, but my dad's friend has TB thanks to his contact with one.
On the other hand, I don't think it's necessary to get rid of all of them. We need to set it up so that they can apply for citizenship without fear of being deported for trying to obtain the legal right to be here. If, however, they are found to be contagiously diseased, insane, or criminal, then I think the spot deserves to go to a more deserving immigrant.
And let's not forget that there are people immigrating from countries all over the world who can't use their geographical proximity to bypass our immigration process. They shouldn't be treated unfairly.-
After major improvement, eVerify is up to a purported 96.1% accuracy. That means that with a workforce of approximately 138 million, it's going to be wrong about approximately 550,000 people. Statistically small, perhaps, but that's a hell of a lot of people to deny a livelihood to because employers are afraid to take a chance.
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Like I said, it's a start.
We could probably benefit from having our computer engineers hammer out the kinks in the system.
There should probably also be an appeal process for people who are wrongfully redflagged. (In English, of course. ) -
Whoa, you seem one of those angry young man/woman types, can I ask you to calm down a bit here?
This requires more analysis and there are no simple solutions. If you look into every individual case you will realize the complexity of the matter.
First, they tried to grip the problem from behind, and raided the houses. Then they thought, its no good, as long as there is an incentive for them to come. So they are targeting the employers.
But what is immigration reform? It is reform of immigration. And entering into any country just like that does not make you in immigrant (at least as per law). It is trespassing at best. So why are they even being discussed, and completely side-tracking the REAL immigration as law defines it
The issue of the trespassers has to be settled, but separately, if they do everything as per law
Yes, again I contradicted myself. But one seems to be the right way and the other a human compromise (and after all laws are made so that humans can co-exist amicably) -
[Whoa, you seem one of those angry young man/woman types, can I ask you to calm down a bit here?]
Yes, but if you expect your request to be fulfilled, you will be bitterly disappointed.
Also, I sometimes like to inject humor in my posts, in case you didn't pick up on it.
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There are many thoughts on Immigration issue but my question is Is it fair to provide amnesty to people who came to this country illegally and on the other hand not give equal rights to people who came to the country on work visa, student visa, temp visa.
By equal rights I mean facing restrictions like you are not allowed to stay out of the country fro more than so many months and Green card wait is for decades for some countries. No exaggeration.-
Yes! Our system isn't perfect. Instead of all this hot air being blown over the topic of illegals, why not focus some of that energy on improving the system to encourage people to migrate legally?
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If you visit immigration forums you'll know that people are trying REALLY hard to improve the present system but the efforts are going to waste or helping very little
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It would probably help if most Americans had an objective sense of what is wrong and how to fix it, but I know I'm asking for too much there.
If you know of any sound plans, I'd love to hear them. -
Each case should be reviewed every 5 years and on the basis on the person's establishments he should be given a Green Card. In my opinion it will be a waste of years which could be spent with your family back home, if after 20 years you are told you are not getting GC.
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@voodooKobra: Yes, the legal immigration system is the one that is broken, and needs fixing. Actually there is no "illegal immigration system" so the sentence is redundant. Perhaps it could be expanded to fit everyones' needs
@owlBarn: you hit the nail right on the head. The present broken system makes waste of so many human lives it is just not fair. Plus, the country loses the most valuable and productive years of millions, and who knows what may have been possible had it not been the case
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One solution which is NOT, is men in dark uniform enforcing stuff. For a problem involving millions of human lives, you need a policy-level solution. How in the world are you going to physically arm-twist millions of people and escort them out? And whether is it even fair?
And how about the "legals"? Even for them the tight laws are too easily broken. How is it practical to pack up and leave the next day when you are fired? Clearly the law is instrumental in creating law-breakers. And law-breakers meet the stern stick of police action.
You DON'T treat decent civilian people like that. A lot less law-breakers would exist if only the law would give sufficient and fair chance at compliance -
@VoodooKobra
Re: Yes, but if you expect your request to be fulfilled, you will be bitterly disappointed
The word should have been "slow" not "calm".. I am sure from your later posts you did slow down! :-) -
I don't see why people shouldn't be able to live where they live. The job of the bureaucrats should be to make them legal, not illegal. Somehow, that got turned around. No surprise there, though. A lot of these government agencies think we work for them!
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