Discussions
IS POVERTY A CHOICE??
Posted by HollytheHousewife • 1/07/09 • Subscribe to this Discussion [RSS] • Report This Topic
Topics: drugs, opressed, poor
I have read some blogs and replied to a few threads lately where people seem to think poverty "in AMERICA"
in not a choice.
IMO I think it is a choice. I think if you want to overcome poverty you can. I truely believe if you have the will and drive anything is possible.
What are your thoughts?
User Comments
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It can be either or. I was born into poverty and I've been spending a hell of a long time trying to get out from under it. -
I could see how a single mom with several children especially might have no way out of poverty. Any job she might take would be far overshadowed by child care costs. And what about people who are on the lower end of the intelligence spectrum?-
Yeah but the single mom made that choice to have kids due to irresponsibility. I wrote about a year ago that everyone should avoid single moms and deadbeat dads, and I stand by it.
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what if she had the children when she was married to their father, but he died and she had heretofore been a stay at home mom?
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That's a pretty serious circumstance and uncommon. Not many fathers end up dying in their 20s or 30s when they have kids. I think it's fair to say that that just doesn't happen all the time, but what does happen is poor parents make poor decisions and raise poor children with poor upbringing.
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River, I'm a single mom. I have one child and earn well above the median income for a family of four in my state. My child is in enrichment programs or advanced placement in every subject, and next month I'll be chaperoning when her choir group performs at Disneyworld. What exactly is it that you think is so dangerous about people like me? -
@Madamex
I'm just against the idea that children should be raised by one parent. It's not healthy and has seriously damaging psychological effects. -
River, I defnitely agree that it's not optimal. Unfortunately, we don't live in an optimal world, and you do what you can. Maybe I misread your comment--you said everyone should avoid single moms and deadbeat dads (as if we might be contagious). If you meant that people should avoid BECOMING either, I wholeheartedly agree.
Oddly, though, my house is the one where all the stray kids keep turning up who can't get any attention at home, and I'm the one who ends up chaperoning the trips and driving everyone home after play practice and such. It isn't what I would have chosen, either, but most things really are what you make of them. -
No I was meaning to say 'Avoid associating, much less dating, single mothers and fathers. They're trash'.
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Well, that piece definitely isn't an issue for me--I can't imagine a single parent having the time or the inclination to date. I know many do, but I just don't get it.
I think you and I have very different definitions of "trash", though...and yours surprises me given all you've seen.
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Hey, and I'm a single, recently divorced mom but not poor. People get divorced constantly, leaving millions of people single moms/dads.
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And that's why I don't agree with any of it. Unstable couples shouldn't have children, for the sake of the children themselves. I was raised by a single, unfit father and...Well, I'll be working out the damage done for a very long time.
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We were a very stable couple and we are both still excellent, involved parents. We were together for 11 years. Things can change overnight. I think you are just trolling. Have fun.
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Definitely not trolling, I've had this frame of mind for many years and I'm not trying to just stir the pot.
We even discussed this in debate class during college, people like me are not as uncommon as you might think. -
There are hundreds of thousands of people like me. Married to a soldier/sailor/airman/marine who are single parents more often than not due to geographical assignments.
Sometimes the military pay system messes up for a few months either getting to a deployment or coming back from one, rendering some of us borderline poverty. If I didn't work, when my husband came back from Iraq and 3ID screwed up his pay for 4 months, we'd have been homeless.
River, I'm curious, do military families fit into your theory?
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I don't necessarily think it's possible to judge this in a generalization.
One of those gotta walk in another man's shoes situations, to know the nuances and reasons behind people's decisions and experiences.
I would hope for the same sort of attempt at empathy myself, were I stuck in a bad spot.-
Agree
Well put.
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I also believe it goes both ways.
Choice:
Some people just accept the roll of living in poverty. The get lazy, lack motivation to truly get out of their situation. Etc Etc
Not a Choice:
Some folks work HARD to get out, but then it seems the "system" is designed to help those who are not really helping themselves. -or- they have an overwhelming amount of responsibilities and very little help from friends and family so they get "stuck"
William Leides-
"but then it seems the "system" is designed to help those who are not really helping themselves"
Couldn't agree more. When I was living down at a homeless shelter (Think of Skid Row for Orange County, Calfornia..) Everyone in there receives a disability check every month, so the pattern was the same: First of the month comes, they disappear and blow it all on meth and hotel rooms. Two weeks into the month, they come strolling back into the shelter and wait until the first. The cycle repeats itself, over and over..
So you're right. Everyone who chooses that type of life has all the more reason to do so. I never got into dope because I just didn't want more mess in my life then I had, thanks to my father.
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ah, the age old american principle of work hard and you can achieve your dream, extrapolated to conclude that those who do not overcome poverty have chosen their fate.
granted, for some folks poverty is the result of choices made, and i'd like to assume those are the folks you are talking about, but i just don't get that feeling.
for far too many it is a condition of birth, not choice. ask a orphaned child in kliptown, south africa, if poverty is a choice? i can assure you the hell they call life is not by choice. it's overwhelming poverty! poverty you can't imagine. so be very careful when you say poverty is a choice. and if what you are really saying is that "remaining in poverty is a choice", again be careful. even in america, there are adversities many of us do not know that others find themselves in, almost insurmountable to overcome. do some overcome? yes. but that doesn't mean those that don't are somehow choosing their fate. and i'm only speaking of this provincial experience of america.
it's a big world out there. well big on population anyway, but growing smaller all the time on resources. and that is a simple formula for growing poverty.
if you haven't, i suggest you see the movie slumdog millionaire. then revisit this important discussion you opening up and see if you might reframe it a bit.
i do thank you for putting this out there. my intention is not meanspirited but rather a pushing back a bit just to make sure i understand what it is you are suggesting. -
If you can't make it in America...then you have no hope of ever succeeding.-
Disagree
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Disagree too. America is very tightly controlled. The entire system is designed to assume that you're not going to make it, with welfare checks and balances, etc. -
Alright, then where?
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No. The class of poverty is an essential aspect of the capitalist hierarchy.
Ergo, it is not a choice.-
But the class doesn't require particular individuals as members. These might be two separate questions, whether poverty can be eradicated and whether individual humans can opt out.
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"The class of poverty is an essential aspect of the capitalist hierarchy."
Essential to this system, maybe. But that does not mean that people have to accept this system.
Everyone has a choice. -
Well, if the class will always exist, then no, not everyone has a choice, as the class is required to be filled, lest we have an economic meltdown.
Studies also show that those born into impoverished families aren't likely to make it out because of immediate barriers thrown their way, starting in the womb (lack of proper pre-natal care, resulting in poor development inutero) going all teh way up to teh fact that they don't posses the eductaion scores or the money to attend colleges, and are stuck at minimum wage jobs.
SO it' snot even temporary.
Yes, we do hear of the miraculous recoveries from poverty, those stories help fuel the American Dream ideology, but the fact of the matter remains that 91.5 million Americans live at, below or just above the national poverty threshold, and if a hundred of them pull themselves up into the realms of the upper middle class of wealth, that's all that will make it.
Obviously, they don't have much of a choice, because if everyone could, then everyone would. -
No - I disagree.
This system will not be around forever.
This economic melt down means that this system is sick.
We need to rethink this whole thing and change the system so that it doesn't melt down. But even if it did melt down, there are other ways of doing business. So, I disagree with you on almost every point.
Money does not equal = The world will continue to turn.
Life will go on, with or without money. -
We need to rethink this whole thing and change the system so that it doesn't melt down. But even if it did melt down, there are other ways of doing business. So, I disagree with you on almost every point.
We actually agree, however, we aren't talking about the "what if" economic structure.
We are talking about the current economic structure. -
Yes - And our current system is sick, so something has to change.
The world is insane right now, and this is because of our sick economic structure.
We're trying to beat a dying horse in to working. -
People were in poverty before capitalism.
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"Obviously, they don't have much of a choice, because if everyone could, then everyone would."
Anok, I definitely agree that not everyone can, but I think your statement above is equally ludicrous. Do you mean to say that you don't know a SINGLE PERSON living in poverty who you believe could choose otherwise, or believe that such a person is out there somewhere? Working in legal aid, a welfare advocacy clinic and as a public defender, I encountered a lot of good, honest people who were doing their utmost and couldn't break the cycle--but I also encountered a good number who made no bones about the fact that they simply opted not to work, or thought the jobs they could get were beneath them and so they'd rather "get by" or any of a hundred other reasons. -
I agree with MadameX. During my tenure as a student, I worked in a liquor store. Guess who were the best customers?
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I like to think that we choose the circumstances in which we are born in to.
Poverty is in your mind.
Poverty is measured by the expectable standards of the modern day economic structure. If you are working full time with a job or two under your belt, you have a house and a car, and you have enough money for food and all necessities, then you are above the poverty line. Where as, by some countries standards, this would be a very wealthy life style.
As long as someone has a roof over their heads, food to eat and clothes on their backs, then they're doing pretty good.
I believe that a person has the option of living to a certain degree between these two standards.
I think our modern day economic structure has a lot to do with, if there's enough money to go around and whether or not someone can afford to keep a roof over their heads and food in their fridges.
But then again, money is only energy. You can totally bypass the money system if you know how to work it and market your skills/services. Unfortunately, the "money" system is so prevalent and has made it so easy to get & transfer money, that this other way of doing business is cumbersome in nature and is not as widely used.
The bottom line is this...
Wealth is in your mind. Some people are very content living under the stars and eating rice every day. To them, living out of the modern day systems is freedom and wealth to them. A person with a mortgage, a car payment, and a job, that is wealth to them, because they are comfortable in that system.
I would say that comfort & happiness are the true measurements of Wealth. -
I do believe that poverty is often caused by poor decisions earlier in life, such as choosing not to go to college even though you have the opportunity, or becoming a teen mother/father. Even if people who have made poor decisions as young people later grow up and realize the error of their ways, it is not always possible to go back and reverse the damage. I would not necessarily call that a choice.
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You're assuming that they could get into a college in the first place.
Financial and educational barriers abound, they prevent people from even being able to make the "right" personal choices to get the higher paying jobs to rise up out of poverty. No matter how badly they would like to. -
Anok, I don't think she's assuming--she confined that example to people who had the opportunity.
I think the opposite problem might arise more often today. People who really can't afford to go to college borrow like crazy to do it, believing that it's the "way out". But the median income for college grads isn't really all that impressive, and sometimes markets shift while the person is still in school. That means that four years later, someone finds himself with a very slightly increased earning capacity, a boatload of debt, and four years of lost wages. -
Playing to the system does not guarantee you to be wealthy.
Thing outside the box. -
"I think the opposite problem might arise more often today. People who really can't afford to go to college borrow like crazy to do it, believing that it's the "way out". But the median income for college grads isn't really all that impressive, and sometimes markets shift while the person is still in school. That means that four years later, someone finds himself with a very slightly increased earning capacity, a boatload of debt, and four years of lost wages."
Agreed -
Tiffany, OK I can get that from her comment as well, thanks for pointing it out.
And I agree with comment, too.
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You're right, Anok. It is more likely that young people will not be able to get into or afford college than they will be to refuse to go to college. It's sad.
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I think it's sad that one actually needs to go to college for most of the jobs they do.
You used to be able to gain employment and a decent paycheck with a high school diploma and education, but it's become so poor and dumbed down that now we are expected to shell out over $150k for a diploma that will get us a mid-level job, without even benefits any more.
That, to me, has seriously skewed the income ratio and ability to get a job.
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My whole point of this thread is to say You don't have to live in poverty.
It is a choice.Everyone in America were dealt a different deck of cards.
Everyone has baggage, resenments, and skeletons in the closet. This place gives you a choice. It is hard for sinlge moms to keep food on the table.
Forget about arguing the point of (you should have never have kids in the
1st place)It's too late for that the kids are here.
So you have a choice to make: Do I want to live in poverty? or
Do you get up and say if I have to work at mickey d's to make enough money to pay for my first semester at nursing school or whatever you want to do.
In this country there is a choice and I just think people are lazy.-
Holly, I think that you're ignoring a lot of realities. Yep, the kids are here--and full time daycare runs a couple of hundred bucks a week. That means that while you're working full-time at Mickey D's for $7/hour, you're taking home about $60/week. That won't even cover rent, so you need a second job--no time or money for nursing school. But, of course, the second job requires child-care, too...
The theory is nice, but do the math. It doesn't play out. -
When making this choice, you must also weigh how much the external systems affect you getting or becoming more wealthy.
You must consider the flow of energy (money) and wealth that is currently in this system which we choose to operate in.
In the depression era, very few people could become "Wealthy", because there just wasn't enough money floating around in the system.
At this point, we're all struggling to get that dollar bill, because there just aren't enough of them out there right now.
You need to think of wealth in different terms than that of the dollar bill.
If you can’t shift your perception of wealth, then you will always be poor. -
Well, I'm glad you think people are lazy.
perhaps you should go into the impoverished inner cities, and tell that to the parents trying to raise kids working two and three jobs if they're available, and tell them they "have a choice" and "are lazy".
What choice do they have?
Perhaps instead of calling people lazy and telling them all that they have a choice you should take care to look at studies and statistics that discuss poverty, causes of poverty, and the educational systems that are available to the impoverished in the US.
Then take a moment to study our economic system so that you can understand that the minimum wage, slightly above minimum wage and below minimum wage jobs that are being filled by adults living in impoverished areas are necessary to keep our economic system going.
If everyone could simply get a better paying job, then the poverty class and working class would either:
Cease to exist, causing an economic collapse or,
The higher paying jobs would simply dish out more money, and charge proportionately more for products and services, thus creating a new poverty and working class, just at a higher, but no more meaningful income.
Because they'll still be at the bottom of the economic barrel, and the cost of living will still be proportionately higher.
There are very few people who "choose" to be poor. -
"If everyone could simply get a better paying job, then the poverty class and working class would either:
Cease to exist, causing an economic collapse..."
And this is a bad thing?
You obviously are seeing a brick wall at the end of the tunnel.
The money system is, because we allow it to be.
Money is energy - Nothing more. -
Duke, I'm not saying it would be a bad thing in the long term (it would cause havoc in the short term), as we all know my disdain for the current system we have.
However everyone else seems to think it is, and thus won't let it occur. -
Well...in all reality, it doesn't have to completely collapse.
If we would only rethink it and work it better towards being more morally responsible to everyone and create some balance and harmony - Then, we've got a good thing goin.
Death (breakdown) is good, but it doesn't have to happen for things to change for the better.
Our system is sooo sooo sick though.
I do believe however, that “negative” things can be beneficial in the long run.
Maybe we'll all learn something from this experience. -
Duke, I think that greed comes into play with regards to economic structures, to the extent that it prevents us from learning from the past.
One would think we'd have learned a thing or two from the Great Depression, but as we see now, those lessons were short lived, and we have allowed a similar breakdown to occur again.
But that has everything to do with greed, not stupidity. The temptation of "making it big" in a capitalist economy such as this permeates every economic class, and so the safe guards and equalizers that could be implemented are seen as a barrier, and thus, no good. Because then it shatters the whole dream (of making as much money as humanly possible). -
I agree - To a certain extent.
I think we all know a whole lot more than you're giving us credit for.
It's the allowing of this abuse that is letting this continue.
If we all took appropriate responsibility and action on this matter, there would be no need for a complete break down.
A small shift in human consciousness goes a looong ways. -
No doubt Duke. But I think it's a mindset that needs to be changed - and change is hard.
I think people understand the economy and it's repercussions, to an extent, but like so many other aspects of life choose to ignore the reality in order to pursue their own needs.
Like I said, it's greed, not stupidity. -
I agree with Holly. There always is a choice. It's not a fact but attitude. To think otherwise is to preach that it's better to lay down and die. The claim that we have a choice makes us human. Yes the reality is there to modify our plans but we still have the choice to look at it and make the best of the situation.
The system is bad because we don't know how to make it better. Yet it's the best system humanity has ever had. We, the people, strive to find and better way! We don't know exactly how but our discussions make it more likely that we'll stumble upon the right track instead of wandering in the dark. -
Agreed
People will get greedy - that‘s a given.
The problem with that is going in to a victim mode.
People in general need to stop playing the victim card.
We all have responsibility in this experience. -
"In this country there is a choice and I just think people are lazy."
Holly, did you choose your foreclosure issues? Was that a result of laziness?
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Dang it!!! Yall are all replying way tooo fast. How am I supposed to read and reply and make a peanut butter and jelly for kendall. I have a feeling I'm gonna have a long night tonight
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You know, I laughed when I read, "Dang it!!! Ya'll..." I'm originally from Arkansas, I understand, all to well, your exclamation. lol
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MadameX
It is called grant money. Utilize the community. I did. I spent hours at my public library searching different kind of programs. If you want to overcome you can. It's hard but it can be done.
no where else can you say that but the U.S.A.-
It seems to me very few people would have any idea grant money would be available to the average person.
Additionally, grants typically require writing skills to craft a request for that grant.
Many people don't have the effective writing skills to do that, or would feel intimidated to do so.
They may also not have transportation to the library.
Or someone to watch their kids while they spend time at the library.
And a host of other barriers.
I recognize you're proud of your accomplishments in helping yourself, and you're right to do so.
I just wonder whether it might not be more productive to pull together a list of ways people CAN help themselves out of poverty and empower them with different techniques they might not otherwise thought of? -
Grant money is a wonderful thing, if you can get enough of it. But grant writing is difficult, time consuming, and receipt of a grant award is not guaranteed.
When you're more worried about making rent, and putting food on the table at the same time, you are not going to have the time and energy to "spend hours at the library" and hours of grant writing time to access enough grant money to float your cost of living obligations, and pay for a college education, provided the grantors even allow the grant money to be used for living expenses.
ANd yes, many grants come with restrictions. -
@Anok
Agreed -
When you're more worried about making rent, and putting food on the table at the same time, you are not going to have the time and energy to "spend hours at the library" and hours of grant writing time to access enough grant money to float your cost of living obligations, and pay for a college education, provided the grantors even allow the grant money to be used for living expenses.
Grant? What's that?
Coincidentally, I held 2 jobs for any given time during my studies. There were no grants. I did spend long hours at the library after hours. I worked for about 4 years saving up to go to university. Made enough to pay for tuition and textbooks, but still had to put food on the table.
Poverty is definitely a choice. I was raised in poverty and just decided I didn't want it any more. -
A grant in the US is an amount of money awarded to a person to complete a project, or go to school that does not have to be paid back. It takes a lot of time and ability to earn a grant from those willing to give them.
Grants are divided by categories, such as types of projects (grants for book writing, art projects, contracted jobs etc), and also divided by means of attainment (the grants that are only for certain groups of people, or whose determination process has strict guidelines).
Coincidentally, I held 2 jobs for any given time during my studies. There were no grants. I did spend long hours at the library after hours. I worked for about 4 years saving up to go to university. Made enough to pay for tuition and textbooks, but still had to put food on the table.
You are also single and childless.
You were raised in poverty, and consistently claim that your government structure is to blame for the poverty, yet you say it was your choice to not be poor any more?
Did your mother choose to be poor, or was that the government's fault? -
Interestingly enough, Holly, I have some background in college and graduate school admissions and financial aid, and know a little bit about the "grant money" of which you speak. Here's one thing I know which you either don't or want to pretend isn't true: it runs out. There is never enough to go around. Ever.
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I think it can go either way depending on where you are geographically. If you are in a place where the resources are so overstretched that its near impossible to get a boost than no, it wouldn't be a choice.
I do think that more often than not though people could be doing more than complaining about it. I went from rich kid to poor kid. Remained poor for a while but still attended private school (tuition paid in advance). When I turned 18 I was given $150 from the foster care system and a bus ticket to my home town. Well, needless to say $150 can't even cover an electricity deposit. What I did was join a band and perform my little heart out night after night, it may have only been $50 a gig but after about 2 weeks I had enough to get a place.
After that, because I was a foster kid previously I used the disadvantaged youth grant to get an associates degree free, got academic scholarships for the bachelors degree while taking any crappy theater/music gig I could. Saved like a mo fo, eventually started getting better paying gigs,joined the military and got the masters degree. my first after college job (besides entertaining) was as a corporate accountant for General Growth Properties making $19 an hour.
SO I guess it depends on the person, the area and so forth. I don't think there is a blanket answer for this, there is no black and white response since everyone's circumstances are some shade of gray-
Bravo!!!
Congrats.
Love your determination.
Living proof here. -
endless : You just proved my point. I was exactly like you I was born in the projects,but My mom said you can be anything you wanna be. This is the only place on earth where you can stare adversity in the face and win!
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If you're at the bottom, you have no where to go but up.
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indeed. thank you thank you. Lol I'm not gonna lie, Raman noodles were my primary diet for a bit, but it was well worth the effort and sleepless nights.
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Holly, did your mother choose to be poor?
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@ ANOK: If I did that then I would get shot. My cousin was shot 9 times around this time last year. He got lost in the wrong neighborhood.My point is people wanna make money quick and illegally. That is wrong if I can do it legally with kids. Anyone can do it legally with kids. Like I said earlier it is a choice. We even made it without the govt's help. It takes getting up and doing somthing about your situation.
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If you can't say it to someone's face then you should rethink saying it at all. And I'm not talking about saying it to an armed gang member, but the single mother working her ass of to provide for her children.
I used to think the same exact way you do. In fact, I remember saying almost the exact same thing in sociology class when I was in college oh-so-many years ago. Most of the class looked at me like I had three heads, and I couldn't figure out why.
Well, I went from being financially OK to destitute. Then I experienced the very real barriers to getting back on your feet. I experienced the aspects of society and poverty that you have no control over.
I changed my tune real quick after that experience. -
@ endless that's what we have been eating for 2 days now. My hubby is a truckdriver freight has slowed way down. I've said this my whole life what doesn't kill us only makes us stronger.
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Holly, and what will happen if your husband loses that job, and you face foreclosure again, or can't even afford to buy Ramen noodles?
If you are being forced to eat Ramen noodles for days on end because you don't have enough money to buy a moderate amount of regular food - then you have not escaped the cycle of poverty, and could very easily, and quickly go right back to the ghetto.
Is that your choice? -
*Smacks his head
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@ Thrift shop
If you are bound and determined not to live in poverty. You can make the choice to get up and make a way. I did. I don't have a car right now I walk.
Sometimes I borrow my cousin's truck. It really is that easy to make the choice. What is hard is following those choices with action and there are a whole lot of people out there that just don't want to take that action.-
What I'm afraid I'm starting to sense here is that this really isn't a discussion, then.
The question was, "Is poverty a choice?"
And while folks are bringing up various viewpoints, success stories, and other angles on it, I'm afraid I'm hearing a lot of, "I did well for myself in spite of the odds, so everyone else who says it can't be done is just lazy."
It doesn't accomplish much, in terms of actually furthering discussion. In fact, it sort of slams the door on that.
Perhaps the dialogue could go more to, "Who here has managed to help themselves out of poverty?" Or "Who has tips to help yourself out of poverty that were effective?"
But if the intent of the thread was to have everyone agree with you that "all people who haven't gotten themselves out of poverty are just plain lazy" well, I'm not sure how many takers you'll get. -
Obviously, these people made the choice.
The question was... Is poverty a choice?
It must be if these people chose to rise above it.
If it were not a choice, then everyone would be stuck in it. -
But if the intent of the thread was to have everyone agree with you that "all people who haven't gotten themselves out of poverty are just plain lazy" well, I'm not sure how many takers you'll get.
Here's a taker. Most people who haven't gotten themselves out of poverty are just plain lazy. -
So your mother was just plain lazy?
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No, and guess what - she isn't poor any more either!
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exactly duke
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Live in the poverty, but do not become the poverty.
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Yes and no, depends on the environment, the opportunities, and the people involved. Having experienced poverty I was lucky to escape it, but I don't agree that people choose to stay poverty stricken. I have seen far too many who worked hard and tried but were kept back by circumstances out of their control. Some don't have the educational wherewithal to know how to make the right choices, or how to tap into the right resources. Some live in places that crush any efforts to improve one's self, and some face exploitation that leaves no room for anything but surviving day to day.
there are many reasons for getting caught in the poverty trap or cycle, and crawling out of it depends on so much more than just pulling up your bootstraps.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cycle_of_poverty
to be frank I find it extremely offensive, judgmental and narrowminded to claim that people who are facing poverty chose that.
As EndlesslySheSaid "don't think there is a blanket answer for this, there is no black and white response since everyone's circumstances are some shade of gray"-
Then be offended.
The problem is not the poverty, it's the mindset behind it.
It's the victim mentality behind it.
Poverty it's self is not definable. Poverty is, in a sense, very subjective, relative and elusive.
Stop being the victim and stop feeling bad for the victims, or nothing will change.
Everyone has a choice, no matter the circumstances.
When you play the victim card, you have no power, but if you take responsibility for it, all kinds of options open up for you.
There is always someone worse off than you. -
Duke, we are talking about actual poverty, not philosophical poverty.
We are talking about people who can't or are struggling to meet their daily needs for food, shelter, clothing, medical care, etc... -
I didn't say I was offended, I said it is an offensive attitude.
Nowhere did I mention being a victim? -
@Anok
We've already established that money is energy - nothing more.
Money is not - The service that one renders; It is not the act of sharing; It is not the warmth of a friend in your darkest hour.
If anything, this is very, very philosophical and so very, very fundamental.
We have so many resources at our disposal. If people would just work together. We give money too much power. Money is nothing. Money is only as valuable as we make it. Money is energy and energy will continue to flow so long as we allow it to.
Tomorrow - The dollar could be worth...nothing. The paper it's self would be worth more.
Money, Wealth and Poverty do not define us. We define ourselves. If you're wealthy, share the wealth. If you're down and out, drop the pride and accept that which is given with an open heart.
It's the matters of the heart that drive this world, not the economy.
At home - Do you have food? Yes? Do you have more than enough? Yes? Would you share it? Yes? Do you have some love to give? Yes? If someone needed a little love, would you give it?
This is so very fundamental guys.
There are millions of restaurants all over the world and there is food that goes to waste every single day. It is up to every single one of those restaurant owners to make sure that food goes to use instead of going bad. How often do you have food that goes bad in your fridge?
Money is not the end all, be all people.
Poverty will exist as long as we permit it. -
Philosophically I agree with you. Money is, at the very core, useless. You cannot eat it, or build shelter with.
However, in our society, right now as we speak, money is the barrier to attaining food, shelter, medical care and safety. In our society, right now, if you have no money, you cannot eat. -
And that is why the money system is failing.
There is no accountability/responsibility.
There are many, many, millionaires out there.
If we would stop hoarding and only use what we need, there would be enough to go around.
It's Just A Ride: www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMUiwTubYu0 -
110% agreed.
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I don't feel that poverty is a choice. It would be silly to assume that people prefer to have less than necessary to take care of personal needs.
Now there's a difference btw those individuals who are lazy and don't take advantage of opportunities and those born with little to no choices in life.
The question posed almost assumes that life is hell bent on offering have nots (for lack of a better term) with silver spoons. Reality check those folks born into the slums in America whose basic needs aren't even being met have little to no chance to making it to Harvard or even community college despite what the commercials tell you. That's not to say that some folks aren't pulled from the murk by some extra-ordinary talent or innate drive. Those cases however, are few and far btw.
Side note without knowing your situation (I don't mean this in a rude way), I think it is very easy to prejudge a group when you're not part of it and don't know the first thing about it.-
That's not to say that some folks aren't pulled from the murk by some extra-ordinary talent or innate drive. Those cases however, are few and far btw.
I'd like to add that some of those opportunities were in fact grabbed because of previous illegal activities. Gang members who earned enough money to be able to start a legitimate business, record label, or get noticed for their talents. -
I don't take offense to your question,but I was born into poverty. I don't pre-judge I do believe anything is possible. Those commercials are absoultely true. If you have the will and drive to do so. It is a choice that you have to make. Get up do something. or. NOTT
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@Anok so very true...I find it funny when those far removed from poverty talk about it like it's some type of condition that people can wipe off their collars by choice.
I would like to throw out the lazy sacks of middle and upper middle class crap who if they had their "opportunities" stripped from them and placed in a position of poverty would actually make it out, you know by choice. I can honestly say the people I know who are quote unquote poor work a lot harder than most of the preppy do nothings I met in college who were given all the opportunity and chance in the world. If some of those poor folks had half the chances that others were given I guess we wouldn't be having this conversation or maybe we would.
Poverty is just not that black and white. -
So Holly - I'll ask again, did your mother choose to be poor?
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This almost never happens, but I think I disagree with you Faith. Correct me if I read your comment wrong. I think that there are several ways for people to make it out of bad situations. After my parents divorced my mother and my sis and I had no where to live (long story). She had no job, and no money. We lived in a car, then a motel room until we could get a place to stay. The next few years were less than ideal, which I care not to go into. I had no one offering me help with college, or school or any of that. I was surrounded by people and peers who thought trying hard was "white" or nerdy, but I did it anyway. I pushed myself and pushed myself HARD and I suceeded in doing better for myself. No record deal, no talent search. I came from one of the roughest cities in California and I am far from that now. So I think there is plenty of choice involved. -
Please, tell us exactly what you did, then?
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@Hollythehousewife. I'm sorry but I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. Also poverty is relative. There's a difference btw being the one person in your neighborhood who can't afford Nikes (feeling poor) and going to bed with no food (being poor). I don't know where you were on that spectrum.
Don't get me wrong anything is possible but life also teaches me that it deals a lot more with what's probable. It is more likely for someone who born into poverty to remain there due to circumstance and access. -
@Lotusb...you had an innate drive to rise above your situation which was the second part of my comment. I never said that it doesn't happen. My argument is that it is few and far btw. Also someone in your same situation could have and probably has ended up still improverished. I wouldn't necessarily say they are choosing it but some people can't overcome, sorry but the system we live it wasn't built for everyone to succeed. That's just not how capitalism works.
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I understand. I know people who feel that way. Personally I choose to belive that life is what we make it. I've always beleived that. My life was never fluffy and sunny, I grew up watching my mom get knocked around, and I was a victem of rape before high school was over. But nothing ever stopped me from trying. So that's why I beleive slightly different. But to each his own.
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Let me ask u a question Jafabrit. Do you live near a big city?
If you do you will probably see some homeless man with a sign
that says "Will Work for Food". My husband has actually asked a
few times come and rake our leaves. My wife will cook whatever you
want. (Which I would)The problem is none of them have ever taken him up on his offer. They stand there holding that sign up but when it comes down to it they won't work. They want you to give them spare change and hit up the liquor store. I am not saying that isn't a sickness it is,but you can make the choice to do something about that sickness.
Now don't come back at me with there is no money to treat alcoholism or drug addicts because I know from personal experience that there are
churches,missions,soup kitchens,and half-way houses all over this nation.You just have to be willing to make that "CHOICE"-
Excellent points!
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Although there are several people like that, that's not the only face of poverty. Poverty is also people who have a place to live and a job but are barely getting by. Or mothers who are still trying to get off of welfare...most of the bums in NYC are suffering from addiction or serious mental illness.
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Many homeless people have mental illnesses, and to assume that a person with a mental illness to be able to recognize that they have a mental illness, and then be able to rationally do something about it is absurd.
Some are, however, just aiming for a free ride but that is far from the majority. -
I'm not assuming anything. I'm just saying there is a difference between homelss people on the street who might be insane or just want a fix and people who are in a bad financial situation.
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I was responding to Holly.
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Poverty is not a choice, there are several circumstances that would make someone fall into poverty. Some are totally unavoidable. However, it can be argued, that if one takes advantage of ALL resources available to him or her, and diligently puts constant effort into improving their quality of life, even the hardest of hardships won't be able to faulter their social status. If your prepared, it's pretty hard to fall into poverty. If you've been a little lazy and then fall into hardship, then poverty isn't so hard to imagine. Thats my opinion.
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"Poverty is not a choice"
"However, it can be argued, that if one takes advantage of ALL resources available..."
lol OK
It's not a choice, but if you really want to, you can get out. -
I guess you missed my point. If someone is born into poverty, born into an over populated and underprivelaged family in the middle of the ghetto,that is not a choice. It IS a choice however to do well in school, find a mentor, join clubs and after school programs and sports, try for scholarships, apply for grants....get into a good trade, do your best, save your money.... just because you don't have a choice in the matter to begin with dosen't mean you can't suceed by putting for effort.
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It's really hard to get a good education though, when you are in a school with ultra poor performance, and teachers who don't care or are inexperienced. (Studies show that a disproportionately high amount of teachers in poor, inner city schools are new, and temporary, giving the students no experienced credible teachers or consistent educational opportunities).
Furthermore, if you are a teen who can work, and chooses to work (many do) it's hard to save those pennies for college when you are helping your mother pay the rent, or buy groceries. Fact is, if they can even get into a college, they will h ave to take out a great deal of loans with little to no expectation of getting a job that will make enough to pay them back. -
You don't need an education to be successful.
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I attended the worst school district in northern california when I was a kid. Eventually, in order to supplement my education I attended regular school, adult school and community college while I was 16 and 17 years old. I think there is no excuse for failure. You can't help where you start off, but you can change where you end up. I had a lot of road blocks and I found a way to get past all of them.
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Duke, that is a debatable statement. I think it comes down to personal preference, goals and standards. For me, my education is the key to my sucess.
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Personal preference - Yes
There are people who have no problem being traveling fortune tellers/actors/comedians/musicians/artists/acrobats, and can be successful in their own way.
My brother in-law tested out of public school because it was too dang boring and he’s now a successful photographer with no additional schooling. -
I'm not arguaing that education is the only way to suceed, I'm saying that effort and hard work is.
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What do you mean you attended "regular school"? And, why is it that because you could afford to go to after school educational programs does that mean that everyone can?
I know I didn't have time for that after school, I had to work.
Duke, yes an education is required for success. The ability to learn and use critical thinking skills increases a persons ability to succeed at any talent or skill, as well as helping them make good decisions in life.
Besides, only so many people can be acrobats, singers, and actors. The rest of us require some form of training, be it academic or trade based. -
HA!! Afford?? I couldn't afford sht at that age and neither could my mother, I'm sorry I think that's funny. I attended adult school which is a public school and free. The only reason I could attend the classes at the CC is because I got involved in a program through my school. The only thing I paid for was my bus pass and that was because I had a J-O-B. I worked my ass off in high school BECAUSE I went to a crappy school. I didn't get home until 10 pm most nights. And living in a bad neighborhood, that's a rough deal. I did what I had to do. I was not a rich kid at that age. When my parents were together we had money, but after...I was on my own for a while.
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@Anok
"Duke, yes an education is required for success."
Disagree -
@Lotusb if I may ask how long were you're parents together, at what age did they separate?
I only ask because if you experienced what it was like not to be poor you were alreaddy coming a position of access and opportunity even though you parents later split and you ended up in a effed up situation. -
I meant afford in the matter of time
I had to work after school and on weekends. I couldn't AFFORD to give up my hours, or I wouldn't have had any money.
Duke, yes education is one of the main factors of success in life. That doesn't mean you need a degree in a subject, it means you learn the basic skills of life, and critical thinking skills.
Higher cognitive educational status has been directly linked to:
Successful careers and/or success in meeting goals
Lower incidence of drug use
Responsible sexual activity (ergo avoiding teen pregnancy) -
Together for almost 20 years, I was 13 when they seperated. I was taken from the best school district to the worst literally overnight.
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Sorry Anok..I dont' buy into it. I had it rough too. I am a sucess story. I worked my butt off, graduated early, and moved out into my first apartment by the time I was 17. My mom didn't give me any money for school, she wasn't even around, because she was suffering from mental illness. I didn't have any shiny spoons handed to me, I was just a very motivated little girl.
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@Lotusb...see that's my point before being put down you knew that there was something else besides the poverty you lived in. Most folks born into poverty don't have that type of access or eyesight.
You knew there was something better and had been given a decent education and drive to strive to get back to where you once were.
Edit that is not to dis-credit your story. It sounds like you overcame believe me I know how that is. -
I see what you mean. But people know whats out there. No one lives under a rock. Just because I lived in a good neighborhood when I was little, dosen't mean it was any easier when I didn't. We had no money, my teachers were...awful. I literally graduated the 8th grade because I "never caused any trouble" quote from my prinicpal. I know a lot of people like that, and a lot of kids like that, and people are very aware of what possibilities are in life. It's very hard to overcome something you are surrounded by, but FAR from impossable. It's the whole reason I've been involved with education. I started working with inner city kids when I was 14, they are well aware.-- or maybe I'm just a hopeless optimist, but it works if you work it.
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lotus, I remember telling the teacher in my high school on the housing estate (government housing) I wanted to go to college and she said "what is wrong with working at the factory". That pretty much summed up the school, which was known as a factor fodder school. Not a very encouraging environment for students who loved learning and were eager to learn. No after school programs where we were.
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So? That dosen't mean a motivated child would be put off by college. My own mother told me to go for my GED instead of graduate so I could get a job, but I didn't. I graduated with a 4.0, early. I went on to college, I didn things with my life. I did it with my own motivation, no one encouraged me.
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"Together for almost 20 years, I was 13 when they seperated. I was taken from the best school district to the worst literally overnight."
So then you had the blessing of a very solid foundation, excellent early education to provide the building blocks you would need to continue that despite adversity in later years. You also had a clear view of how the "other half" lived that made things seem possible to you that many of your classmates in the second school probably didn't know or believe existed. That's all wonderful, but it can hardly be compared to the child who is in that situation from birth, who learns to read (or doesn't) and do basic math (or doesn't) in the "worst school district" and who has literally never seen a stable family or known a person who was professionally successful. -
"So? That dosen't mean a motivated child would be put off by college"
Hum, I didn't say it put me off, but not all of us are blessed with school systems that encourage education.
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I knew mentall Illness was going to come up in this discussion. That is the only stipulation to the choice. You can't choose not to have a mental handicap,but if all of the impoverished people(who doesn't have a mental illness) would get up,get a job,and quit the "GAME" then Those tax dollars from legally working a 9 to 5 would go to get those truely sick people off the street and into a place where they could recieve proper care.
I know that will never happen but it makes sense.-
It's not really that simple. Not to mention, mental illness is only half the battle. Chronic illness, pain or medical conditions create bills that alone put millions in the poor house every year...there are A LOT of exceptions to your rule. I think there are a lot of people who are lazy about their situation, but by far that is not the case with everyone.
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As someone who was diagnosed with several mental illnesses and born into a life of poverty, I agree.
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You do realize that the US does not provide facilities for people with mental illnesses any more, right?
And that your assumption that if all those lazy people just worked (who says they don't work? I know poor people who work their asses off every day and still can't make ends meet) that all of a sudden the homeless man with a mental illness would recognize he has a mental illness and would be rational enough to:
A)fill out state based health care forms
B) Find a doctor
C) remember to go to the appointment
D) Find a steady place to live so he could maintain his state based insurance, have a safe place to keep medications, and perhaps help remembering to take said medications.
Man, that's a lot of assumptions there in that post. -
Of course it would come up, a lot of homeless people are suffering mental illness?
www.psychlaws.org/generalResources/fact11.htm
"Now don't come back at me with there is no money to treat alcoholism or drug addicts because I know from personal experience that there are
churches,missions,soup kitchens,and half-way houses all over this nation.You just have to be willing to make that "CHOICE""
Churches, soup kitchens etc don't supply long term medication to treat schizophrenia or some of the other illnesses that debilitate a person mentally. -
I was diagnosed with Schizoaffective disorder, borderline personality disorder, generalized anxiety disorder, and bipolar disorder. The place I get help from does supply doctor visits and the such, very thankful for them too.
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I will try to pop in this discussion just this once, these are my favorite types of discussions because it seems to imply that poverty is the fault of the mother and that she is lazy and contributes to global poverty. FALSE
How unfair to drop the blame on one scapegoat.
I have been raise by 3 women and they all did better that I expected they would.
There was no man around anywhere to provide support or money.
These women didn't choose to be poor and they did the best that they could with what little they had.
I turned out just fine and all 3 of us today are happy and contented.
If this was so easy a task to make everyone RICH, why isn't everyone rich today?
Not everyone can be rich and if we all were rich in this system, there would be no need for workers
or even low paying workers who is the base of society.
The system is already too expensive, college, health care and all the other expenses that one has is still difficult to obtain even if you are working 2-3 jobs.
Having a college degree is worth just about the same as the American dollar today. ZERO
A child may not have much of a choice if they are born into poverty but that child can work to find a way out but even if that child is working to find a way out, that is still no guarantee that the child will even find a way out with this ridiculous system we have today.
I am in full agreement with Anok and Madamex because I know what they are talking about 1st hand.
It is the system that need a overhaul because far too many people are busting their ass,
losing their homes in foreclosure even if they are working 2-3 jobs.
Your complain and attempts to place everyone problems into ONE BOX is the typical mind set
of ignorant people who don't know shit.
Everyone's situation is different and I doubt very much that everyone wakes in the morning
and says to themselves, I want to be lazy, jobless, poor and penniless.
I doubt that very much but hey let's throw the blame on one group of people, the lazy,
jobless, poor and single.-
Not everyone has to be Rich.
Where there is Rich, there has to be Poor.
If everyone would just take care of their own needs and be content to let the excess benefit other people, we wouldn't have this problem.
No one has to be poor. If the world decided today that that was the reality they wanted to live and acted appropriately. This problem exists because we aren’t working together. We separate ourselves in to two categories - Victims and Creators. Drop the victim-ness and start being responsible creators. The world will not change unless we all take responsibility for our own lives.
We can’t change anyone else, but we sure can change how we act. -
Life has NO GUARANTEES
I will not put people in any CATEGORY OR BOX.
I am better than that. -
"I will not put people in any CATEGORY OR BOX.
I am better than that."
Good for you Jeunelle.
I agree - We are all creators.
It's the unfair thing that we do to ourselves by putting this label on ourselves and others. -
Yes and it's hurtful, especially when people are busting their ass to make it work in this system and they still can't see the light at the end of the tunnel.
Our leaders like Pres. Bush ain't helping to matters much easier either, in fact he helped
to make it much worst. -
Agreed
Our system is flawed.
Plain and simple. -
The question we should be asking is how do we get rid of this unfair system
and install a more improved system?
How do we do it without great loss of life and other casualties?
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No bradhart. I am a housewife that was born in the projects. Lived my life
by making the right choices. My husband quit school in the 6th grade. I had to drop out my junior year to pay bills. I got a job and so did he in the resurant industry. I was a waitress and he had by then worked his way up to managing the steakhouse when we met. We lived in a trailor park. We got married and then I became a mom. We decided that our baby isn't gonna be raised up in the white trash section of town. No our baby deserved better than that. We (my husband and I) decided that there is a better life. We found it. We quit paying the note on the trailor and my husband went to
school. HE got his class a. We saved up enough to put down on a house.
We got the hell out of the trailor park. So let me tell you it is a freakin choice. You just have to be willing to get off ur ass.
So if you don't have anything else to say get off my thread
U pompass ASS-
So you stopped paying for your trailer to get ahead?
Are you implying that we should do irresponsible and illegal things to get ahead, and that makes poverty a choice?
I'll ask again, did your mother choose to be poor?
Why did your house go into foreclosure because you are wealthy?
Are you more than one paycheck away from going back into foreclosure?
Do you think you are wealthy? -
Very impressive, Holly. I had no idea that when you said people should "quit the game", you meant that they should renig on their obligations.
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@Anok
Letting her trailer go was not illegal.
@MadameX
Are you saying all these people who are losing their houses due to foreclosure are irresponsible?
Just because she chose to let her house go didn't hurt the bank.
They still have a trailer to sell to some other shmuck.
It was a personal choice and I commend her for that. -
She said she "stopping paying the note" on it.
I could stop paying my rent, too. But I would be evicted. Nor is qualifying irresponsible or illegal behavior a reasonable "choice". -
@Hollythehousewife, how is it that you were able to not pay for your trailor when people stop paying rent where I'm from they get tossed out on the street?
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Who said she HAD to pay her note?
No one has to do anything.
She was required by the current system to fullfil her note.
Who set up this system?
The bankers.
In my opinion, all housing should be free. No one should have to go without a roof over their heads.
That does not mean that makes her a bad person for not doing it.
She made that choice and that benefited her.
It put her in a better position. -
@Dukepro are you serious?
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I'm totally serious.
This is a very, very unfair system that the bankers have set up.
Money is energy - nothing more, nothing less.
Housing and Food should be a given.
Money is an illusion. -
@Dukepro, if only I lived in your world...it sounds like a nice place.
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The world should be a nice place.
I don't see any reason why it shouldn't be.
If the world had a common goal of this simple thing...
A roof over everyone's head, food on the table, and clothes, can you imagine what a better place this would be?
Drop the politics, drop the wars, drop the banking and the gaining.
Do you realize how much energy (personal energy) people spend on things like this?
Can you imagine if we all channeled our energy in to making this place a better place?
It’s not impossible. -
Duke, while I agree that the basic necessities should at the very least be reasonable for everyone if not free - you and I both know that this is not the case.
She obligated herself by signing the contract stating that she had to pay it.
Faith, often times evictions take time, and it is hard for landlords to toss out tenants. -
Dukepro, why "should" the world be a nice place?. Just because you think that is how it "ought" to be? How do you justify that? Just because you don't see of a reason why it shouldn't be, does not mean it should be either.
You speak of "a better place," but that too is relative, relative as you say poor and rich are. -
She wasn't "required by a system" to pay her note--she AGREED to pay her note. And while many people fall into circumstances under which they can't keep up payments for various reasons that I don't believe reflect on their responsibility, I was responding to the fact that Holly said that anyone who wasn't lazy could rise out of poverty, and offered herself as an example...although she apparently "rose out" of poverty by making a conscious choice to stop paying for something she'd purchased and instead using the money to buy a better house that she couldn't afford, THEN faced foreclosure and was able to generate enough fuss to get someone to give her a break, and is now proudly sitting in her house feeding her children ramen noodles and offering lectures on how other people should be advancing their economic positions. THAT I do believe is irresponsible.
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@Anok
That contract is an illusion.
It is simply an agreement. The bank did not lose anything by her choosing not to pay.
Are you saying that it would be justifiable for the banks to go after all these people who have foreclosed on their homes? Good luck with that. You want to really piss people off, do that. Then our system would collapse over night for sure.
Just because a system is insane, doesn't mean you have to help propagate it.
The trailer was no longer benefiting her and she realized that she could move on.
Yah - It screwed up her credit, but credit is also an illusion. -
Duke, everything is not an illusion.
The contract she signed was not an illusion, nor was the financial hit that the lender took when she stopped paying. If I lend you money to purchase something, with the agreement that you pay me back in installment, and you choose not to pay me back, I'm out that money.
The banks and lenders are collapsing because of all the unpaid financial obligations. The problem wiht the current foreclosure crisis is far mroe complicated than just going after homeowners, and whose to blame for teh mass amounts of foreclosures is up for debate.
That does not, however, negate the willful decision to stop meeting financial obligations because they wanted to purchase something bigger and better, and then fail to meet those obligations as well.
She had a legal obligation, and it was certainly not an illusion. -
LOL!!!
Holy crap Anok! They've got you hook, line and sinker.
You actually think the banks are hurting? lol
By signing that contract, she gave them permission to charge her for using their property. She was "Buying" that trailer. It didn't mean she owned it. She doesn't own anything until she has made that final payment. The lenders weren't out anything. The very fact that we allow the lenders to charge on a home and than turn around and sell it again for full price is highway robbery.
I can't believe you're endorsing this @#$%!!!
You of all people. You're going to stand there and say you support this crap?
What is to stop a bank from selling a house 5 or 6 times for full value, only to have a family default and them having the right to sell it again?
Say a house is worth $250,000. A family pays in to it - $150,000. Then, they can't make any payment for 6 months. The house defaults and they sell it again for the same, if not a higher sale price, say...$300,000. The next family pays $200,000 in to it, they can't make any more payments. How much has the bank made so far? $350,000 - And they still have the house to sell yet again.
HOLY crap!
You think that system is justified?
And you’re giving her crap over a stinkin trailer?
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Yes they do Anok!!! I had to put my step-dad in one of those places just 4 months ago. It was the hardest thing ever to do.
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There is a difference between a convalescent home and a state run mental hospital.
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A child that is born into a poor country where his parents have little money to even feed themselves, let alone a growing child, does not have a choice in the matter. The child is poor by consequence not of his own will, but by that of causality. He didn't choose to be poor and starving.
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OMG!!!
See my other posts above.
Money is energy - nothing more, nothing less.
This all exists because we concede to this unfair system of Take, Take, Take.
There is poor, because there is Rich. -
I agree it is relative. But whether you acknoledge the relativeness of this or not, either way there is no room for free-will or choices. There is only the illusion of choices. The choices one thinks they have are not really choices at all, only further conditions that contribute to determining the path they do take.
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Disagree
We all have choices. -
Disagree
We don't have choices.
See how effective it is to simply state something without explaining the reasoning behind it.
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I feel retarded just from reading this thread. Thank god there are people like Anok around to deal with this garbage.-
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@pointlessbanter
Agreed
@Anok
Why waste your time on continuing to respond to this ignorance when it's clear that there is a stubborn resolve to ignore the valid points that you raise? -
I'm a masochist.
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Yes to both madame and anok. We did sacrifice that piece of tin(which was resold and we paid the difference). We let it go and got something so much better.I didn't do anything illegal.
My home that I just saved was in foreclosure because of all the crap that happened when we first moved in.I got screwed over by big business. I fought it and won anok and madame.
Hell no I'm not wealthy and never ever considered myself wealthy.
I live life for today. Who knows what tomorrow brings. My house isn't gonna go back into foreclosure because I'm gonna keep on keepin on. I just won't let it happen.-
Bravo!
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Actually, not making your financial obligations is illegal.
That's why they evicted you.
In the meantime, you cost the owner/landlord money to advance yourself.
And, I do love to hear that when something goes wrong like a foreclosure, it wasn't my fault!! in the same breath that you are telling everyone else that poverty is a choice.
And, if you know you're not wealthy, and know that you aren't even close to being wealthy, you are saying that you choose to be poor. If and when your husband loses his job, or gets sick, or loses time and contracts due to the economy, your house will foreclose again.
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It is a choice...Do you want to be poor or not? Even for you today..you can choose to be happy or not? Do you want too? Just work hard and be thankful that you are alive today and your working. If you don't have a job then...pray for it and you can find one. God answers our prayers if we are true to ourserlves. Their is no recession in heaven only on earth.-
"Their is no recession in heaven only on earth."
Love it!
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@ faith
it took 6 mos for them to foreclose on the trailor. like I said we quit paying it. We saved everydime we could. We put down a big down payment on the house because our credit was horrible from the forclosure on the trailor. We finshed paying the difference on it 2 mos. ago.-
So what you're saying is this is second foreclosure?
And you are talking about financial success and financial responsibility because...why?
Listen, you, the unemployed housewife with two foreclosures under her belt and a cabinet full of Ramen noodles is turning around and telling a say...single parent who works multiple low wage jobs so that she can make her financial obligations each month, even if it happens to be a rental in the slums that she doesn't work and is lazy?
You need to take a step back, my dear. -
Wait...so you were making payments on the trailer you'd been foreclosed on while you were unable to make your house payments and being foreclosed on THERE?
This is getting more tangled by the minute. -
Yes madame: We had an obligation to up hold. Like I said they resold the trailor. The difference was 1,100 dollars. We paid them a lump sum with our tax return last year the balance was left at 400$ and we made payments.
No one gave me a break as u call it madame. As a matter of fact Not even
the gov't would give us assistance because of the messed up system only giving you food or health ins. if you were poor in previous months.They go by your checkstub before you were laid off. -
But you didn't uphold your obligations.
Had you actually been responsible, and, if your ability to "move up" the social ladder is indeed a choice as you claim it to be, then you should have theoretically been able to meet your financial obligations AND saved enough money to move out of the trailer park.
From what I gather, you wouldn't have made it out of the trailer park had you not willfully stopped meeting your obligations - rendering your ability to move up and out of poverty...a non choice.
And you do seem to have a lot of excuses for someone who believes that poverty is a choice.
Well, we couldn't have saved up for a house if we didn't stop paying on our trailer, so the foreclosure wasn't our fault. Well, we couldn't get assistance form the government so we had to stop paying and meeting our obligations, well, the government didn't help us when we got laid off, so the foreclosure wasn't our fault....we wouldn't be in our current position if the government had helped us, and the foreclosure hadn't ruined our credit, so we didn't have to put such a big down payment on the house, and they made us pay the difference, and the lay offs made us foreclose on this house and, and, and.... -
No Anok I am not giving anybody lectures I am saying they can do it too.
If they get up and do it. As for me being unemployed that to is my choice.
I am not fixing to let a system raise the kids I gave birth to. They deserve to have a mom not a nanny. You are saying that like I am supposed to be ashamed of myself for not wanting to go join the workforce. I am not ashamed I am damn proud to be a mom. Not only that I have obviously made some kind of difference because like I said there are many people out there in my situation and instead of abandoning their homes they are now fighting just like I did and they too will make a difference.
WHY? because they CHOSE TOO. -
They can do what too?
Foreclose twice and still be poor?
You have called the poor (a class that you still belong to, regardless of the illusion through homeownership) lazy, you have insisted that they don't work, and choose to be poor.
When in reality you:
Don't work, have failed to meet your financial obligations, willfully neglected your financial contracts to "get ahead", blamed everyone else for your drama, and are still POOR.
You have no right to call the people busting their asses everyday to make ends meet and meet their financial obligations lazy. -
That's my whole point anok. I am not making any excuses. I am still here and still living the American dream today. There is no excuse for poverty.
I did meet my obligation with the trailor. Not only did they make soooo much money off of us in intrest the bank resold it made more money and we still paid the difference. You are coming at me like I haven't made mistakes
and I have. I know that. I have also learned from them. That is how I saved my house this time. That is why I spent time in the library to see what could be done. I made that choice and damn glad that I did. -
You have made a list of excuses, and still not escaped poverty.
And now you are justifying your irresponsibility with the notion that the bank made soooo much money off you. You foreclosed a second time because the lender "screwed you", you couldn't make ends meet because the government wouldn't help you....you saved your foreclosure by getting FREE money from others through grants, spending your time doing that instead of working....like the REST of us.
You are surviving on Ramen noodles because you can't afford to buy food, because your husband isn't making as much money. But in reality you can't afford to buy food because you live in a house that's too expensive for you which you scammed your way into by not paying your loan on a trailer you previously owned.
There is a very good chance your husband will be laid off, and that will spell foreclosure number three.
And you have the audacity to call those who are poor - but MORE responsible than you lazy? You have the nerve to say that they choose to be poor, when what they are choosing is to be responsible?
You're just as poor as they are, lady. And if your idea of living the American dream is scamming your way into a house you can't afford to keep then you are in for a very rude awakening. -
Just because people choose to be "responsible" to a corrupt system does not make them honorable.
You're starting to sound like you support the system that creates the Rich & the Poor.
She believes she can rise above poverty.
You don't need to sit there and beat her down.
We (everyone) are just trying to survive.
We’re trying to make a corrupt system work & everyone is getting crazy over it.
There will be a breaking point.
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Have not read what everyone else has said, its rude and I'm sorry LOL So, forgive me if anyone else has already said:
To remain in poverty is a choice.
Great topic BTW, Holly :-)-
Agreed
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Right wingers keep the mucked up capitalism/corporatism system in place that causes the numbers of people living in poverty to grow. As so many of them are ill educated and ignorant of the facts, they perpetuate poverty repeating slogans like the one of blaming the poor we keep hearing in this thread from the OP.
Poverty stats
According to the U.S. Census Bureau, in 2005, nearly 12.6% of the United States’ population, or thirty-seven million people live in poverty. Minorities face higher levels of poverty, with 24.9% of African-Americans living in poverty and 21.8% of Hispanics. Furthermore, poverty rates for children under the age of eighteen remained higher than those between the age of eighteen and sixty four, at 17.6%. Read the full report on poverty in the USA by the U.S. Census Bureau www.census.gov/hhes/www/poverty/poverty.html
Women and children in poverty
In 2005, over 14 percent of American women lived in poverty. Among single mothers, this number rose to over 31 percent. This is clearly unacceptable, both for the women and families immediately affected and for society as a whole.
* Nearly 1 in 4 girls does not graduate from high school
* Female dropouts earn on average 7 percent below the Federal Poverty Line for a family of three ($15,520 vs. $16,600) while women with high school diplomas earn on average 32 percent above that level ($21, 936 vs. $16,600)
* Girls make up 87 percent of students in traditionally female fields such as cosmetology and childcare and only 15 percent of those in traditionally male fields. Those who enter traditionally female occupations can generally expect to earn half—or less—of what they would earn in a traditionally male field
* Women still earn on average 78 cents for every dollar paid to men.
Healthcare realities
Many Americans are unfamiliar with the harsh realities of the individual health insurance market because they receive health insurance through an employer. However, as a number of prominent health care reform proposals consider expanding the role of the individual market, it is important to understand how this system fails women. Download NWLC’s report, Nowhere to Turn: How the Individual Health Insurance Market Fails Women.
action.nwlc.org/insurance
Homelessness
According to a recent White House press release, the number of homeless at any given time has now reached 750,000. The homeless are not necessarily penniless, or without four walls. While anywhere from 25 to 40 percent of the homeless have jobs - depending on the city — many have no access to affordable housing.
* During the Great Depression, the number of able bodied men forced into homeless due to unemployment rates approached 25 percent.
* In 1987, a Urban Institute study found that while only 12 percent of the U.S. population is black, they make up about 40 percent of the homeless.
* While the 1994 federal plan acknowledged the central role of poverty in homelessness, the 1996 welfare proposal was passed despite research indicating that it would push one million children into poverty. Bush’s latest pronouncements have focused on “individual responsibility” for poverty.
* A 1995 evaluation found that approximately 86% of the homeless children and youth attended school regularly. A majority of the service providers and shelter operators felt that homeless children faced difficulties in being evaluated for special education programs and services, and in obtaining counseling and psychological services.
* In a 1996 study of evening news programs in 1989: Under Bush there were 44 stories on homelessness in 1989, 54 in 1991, and 43 in 1992. The average was 52.5. Under Clinton there were 35 in 1993, 32 in 1994, and just nine in 1995, for an average of 25.3.
* On any given night in America, anywhere from 700,000 to 2 million people are homeless, according to estimates of the National Law Center on Homelessness and Poverty.
* According to a December, 2000 report of the US Conference of Mayors:single men comprise 44 percent of the homeless, single women 13 percent, families with children 36 percent, and unaccompanied minors seven percent.
* The homeless population is about 50 percent African-American, 35 percent white, 12 percent Hispanic, 2 percent Native American and 1 percent Asian. www.policyalmanac.org/social_welfare/homeless.shtml
Rome (America) is falling because government and the corporate kingmakers are in bed together, and because the poor right wingers have blind faith in capitalism and the American dream. Despite the realities they continue to spiel the slogans that insure that the rich continue to become richer, and the poor continue to become poorer.-
There seems to be a general misconception that the current economic crisis is a result of capitalism. Ahem.
This is an economics tutorial, for all those who believe in the class struggle ala Marx:
www.investopedia.com/university/economics/default.asp
Here's a good definition of capitalism:
www.investopedia.com/terms/c/capitalism.asp
And here is a good discussion on crony capitalism:
www.investopedia.com/terms/c/capitalism.asp
Hope I brought some horses to water. -
It is a result of deregulated capitalism.
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"(America) is falling because government and the corporate kingmakers are in bed together, and because the poor right wingers have blind faith in capitalism and the American dream."
@TT You forgot to add that government is also in bed with the religious institutions of America that like the status quo when it comes to poverty. They know quite well the more money people have the less influential churches have over their flock. It is a big gay three way. -
Indeed I agree that unregulated capitalism has lead to the fall of Rome (America).
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bradhart...you know what's funny?
I brought this same point out in another past discussion and most everyone was pissed at me
for saying so. Hey I see what I see and report what I see.
Some can't stand to hear the truth and they sure can't handle it, according to Jack. -
@Jeunelle yeah but people are usually pissed at me every time I mention religion as if I a non-believer have no right to even think about it. Someone will come along soon enough and bad mouth me for the comment. That or leave me a bunch or PM's over it so they can still appear all nice and sweet in the general forum.
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I'm not going to jump all over you, but I can't help but notice the inconsistency between the popular belief that churches are all about getting money from their followers and the belief that churches are all about keeping their followers poor so they can exert influence. Not much benefit in exerting influence over someone who can't offer you anything, is there? It's beyond me how the same people can hold both of these beliefs and not notice that if churches are out to make a buck from their followers, their followers need to have some bucks. -
@bradhart...how true...children.
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This topic is a fucking mess.
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INDEED
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Only if you compare it to a topic you find compliant to your relative standards of order.
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TRUE
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Money as debt
This 47-minute animated presentation of "Money as Debt" tells in very simple and effective graphic terms what money is and how it is being created. It is an entertaining way to get the message out. I recommend it as a painless but hard-hitting educational tool and encourage the widest distribution and use by all groups concerned with the present unsustainable monetary system in Canada and the United States. video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9050474362583451279-
More correctly - Money is an illusion
But yes - This is the problem with our system.
It's eating it's self alive.
Theoretically - There is not enough money in the world to pay the principle of all loans, plus the interest. -
And the rest of world for that matter. Only a few countries left not under the ferula of the money changers. There was ex-Yougslavia, Irak, no more. There is still Iran, Malaysa, Cuba, Burma, which was hit last year by a devastating HAARPicane... mmm I meant Hurry Kane. Maybe a few more countries...
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Money is just an energy, just a concept. I believe I can create money and that the person responsible for my economic status is me. I don't blame the system, or the government, or corporations or successful people. That is an absolute waste of my time and resources, which are valuable.
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People always assume its about choices and working hard. They always think about themselves in the situation. They don't think about the inordinate number of people in poverty that are NOT anything like themselves: physically disabled, mentally ill, with low IQ's. Its easy to think its possible to pull yourself up by the bootstraps, when you have bootstraps.-
Yup, some of the poorest people out there are the hardest working people. When you have people like Paris Hilton gallivanting around - really, how hard does she work?
If it were actually about hard work, the poor would be immensely wealthy. -
Currency exists only because debt exists. The entire "empire of wealth" is built on debt. Please watch the video I linked to above. I'm sure you will find it to be informative.
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@ anok
don't give me that mess. If you wanna call me poor that's fine. I don't think I am. I think families go through hard times and struggles I don't consider that poor. I consider that life. I am not lazy by any means of the streach. When things like this happens I have learned I can't depend on anyone for a break. I get out there and start knocking on doors and start cleaning houses for people,running errands and stuff like that. Guess what I take kendall my four yr. old with me. You see if I wanted to go to harvard
I could because I believe nothing is impossible in this country. I don't want to. I made the choice to be a housewife and live in the burbs with my girls. Anybody can make that same choice.-
You keep telling yourself that.
While you survive on Ramen noodles, and foreclose on yet another house.
Maybe you should try living within your means, instead. -
Anok - Stop givin her a hard time.
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Well, Duke, when you come out very harshly against an entire group of people, and make outrageous an unfounded claims about them, then use yourself as a supposed example for ho wit ought to be done in this manner....
You know, maybe a hard time is exactly what's called for. -
Did you take your four year old with you to stand on the courthouse steps and beg people not to bid on your house. Is THAT the suburban life you thought your kids deserved?
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No sweedish skier
It is easy to say but very hard to do. No one said overcoming hardships in life is easy. -
I'm sorry I have a very strong opinion on this. Poverty in the US is not necessarily a choice. Sometimes thing happen which leads to poverty and it is beyond your control. My household income is below the poverty line and we did not choose to be this way. My husband lost a good paying job, we lost our home, our car, and good paying jobs are very hard to find in today's economy. We did not choose this! My husband and I both have college educations and have and currently are applying for good paying jobs which we qualify for. For some reason we are still poor. He is working 32 hours a week and barely making more than minimum wage, and he did not chose this! The job he has now is the best job that he can find right now. So no, poverty is not a choice. Maybe for some people it is, but not for most. Especially during these tough economic times.-
There is Poor because there is Rich.
People all over America are struggling because of the corrupt system.
People are struggling because there isn't enough money in this system.
Why are people struggling?
Because these corporations are not being responsible.
People are getting laid off, because there isn't enough money going around.
The dollar has lost it's buying power and because we can not maintain the current level of consumption, more and more people are losing their jobs. It's a vicious cycle because we're trying to make a broken system work.
Money is energy - nothing more, nothing less
We all have the power to make this world work.
These corporations have taken nothing from us. The only thing they are saying is, your money is no good here. So spend your energy somewhere else. Make the world work. Stop playing to this broken system.
If these corporations won’t play your game, play a new game.
Life does not equal money.
Life will go on, with or without money.
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ok Anok I am gonna tell you one more time. My house is not in foreclosure anymore not because someone gave me a break,or living outside of my means.
when I bought this house I told you we saved a big downpayment,plus we had money in savings. In case of an emergency. Now I got screwed over by ahs,dream home builders,and State farm. I did everything the professionals said to do. It was a life lesson that I made it through again. I also know that freight will pick up soon and we have tax returns coming up. You can try to cut me down all u wish. I will still be here in the the burbs with my girls living life. Keep on Keepin on. I will still tell people if you need help read my blog. They can do exactly what I have done to.-
Yeah, you saved a big down payment by reneging your other financial obligations, then went through another foreclosure, which, by your own words, you saved by spending hours at the library applying for grants, and begging people not to bid on your house....instead of, you know, working.
And none of that was your fault, but everyone else's poverty is.
Furthermore you have claimed that you eat nothing but Ramen noodles because your husband isn't making enough money to buy regular food. A couple more hours cut, a layoff, an unexpected emergency and you'll be right back to applying for grants and begging people not to bid on your house.
How many of your neighbors in the burbs can't afford to buy food?
You are living way outside of your means, you don't work, and have the audacity to tell those who are working their asses off "lazy" because they don't have a pretty house in the burbs, like you do.
Then again, they may be poor and living in bad neighborhoods, but at least they are financially responsible. -
Thanks for saying what needed to be said Anok. You have summarized very well.
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You're giving her a hard time for trying to survive!?!
What's your story Anok?
All she's saying is, she was able to step out of her other circumstances. She could of chosen to stay in an even worse situation, but she didn't.
You're doing an even worse service by saying - You have no right to try.
You're saying - Poverty is ok. Just stay there and rot. Oh - And if you do try and work your way up, there's going to be people waiting for you to beat you back down.
That's what you're about? -
I'm giving her a hard time - not because she's trying to survive - but because she dumped on a whole lot of respectable people then laid out her hypocritical story for all to see.
Had she simply stated that she has struggles, and has even done some irresponsible things to make ends meet, I wouldn't have said anything. Instead she lectures us about how we can choose to get out of poverty, and how we shouldn't be lazy, and how everyone who is poor has made that choice and they should be more like her....
I'll be more than happy to tell my story. -
Roflmao Anok I love you, you are a very interesting truthful person.
I sure enjoy reading your comments here at BC.
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@ madame x
They didn't know what was going on. I took toys and a pic-nic. They thought it was fun. Not only did I ask people not to bid on my home I went to the
library and educated myself on law in real-estate. So I didn't just ask them not to bid on my home. I told them all I have to do is save up to pay off the principal with in 2 years and no matter how much money you bid on my house, I can take it right back from you.
So who wants to loose money huh???
I "CHOSE" to find out what could be done. -
@ Anok
did you not read what I said. I didn't renig. The same big business your up there preaching about screwed the housewife over too. I figured it out. If I can figure it out why can't my next door neighbor figure it out too. Why can't that gut who just shot at one of his rival gang members and the bullet hit the two year old figure it out too. Why, I did and as alot of these people say in this thread I'm not a rocket scientist. I will tell you why it is easier to flip a kilo than clean a house,or drive a truck.-
Perhaps you're having trouble with definitions, Holly. Here is a little help for you from dictionary.com.
Renege: 2. to go back on one's word: He has reneged on his promise.
So you didn't go back on your promise to make regular monthly payments?
It is, indeed, fairly easy to get ahead if you are willing to check your ethics at the door. It seems that the theme you keep coming back to here is that all poor people have to do is brush aside those pesky morals and they too can live for months in homes they're not paying for and such. I think you're right. But surely you're not suggesting that anyone who chooses to behave ethically is just stupid? -
I understand completely what you are going through. We foreclosed on our home last Feb. The auction took place about a month ago. I was not there. We had to move across the country when we got the foreclosure notice. The bank gave us 30 days to evacuate our home. You are not alone. I've been there and know what you are going through. My husband has a low paying job and he is only working 32 hours a week. Good paying jobs are hard to find. We have three children and our fourth is on the way. I know what it is like to have to feed my kids Ramen Noodles because our pantry is bare. There is nothing wrong with staying at home to take care of your children. Mine are little and they need me. Sure I've looked for part time jobs but there are very hard to find. I've applied at several places only to get turned down. Lots of people are looking for work right now. It is not our fault, nor our choice that we are living like this. I'm only hoping that some economic miracle will happen within the next few years and there will be more jobs available for people like me and my husband. Right now there just is not enough jobs in the US for the number of eligible workers. It has nothing to do with corporations, don't listen to that crap. The only thing that alot of corporations are doing is moving overseas because they can hire cheaper labor. The government needs to quit regulating these companies, and giving small business higher taxes. Small business is the backbone of the economy in the US. If someone is going to get a job it will be with a small business. If the government raises taxes on small business then they will end up laying workers off. Let's hope that the government can do something to create more higher paying jobs. That is the whole problem we need more higher paying jobs in America.
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I didn't dump on anybody or lecture anyone.I am saying you can do it too.
How is that being a hipocrit.-
I agree with Madame X.
You appear to be advocating that people ought to enter contracts to make monthly mortgage payments and then breach the terms of those contracts.
Throughout this entire thread you appear to be attempting to using these techniques in your communication with us - distract - deceive - deny. -
Sweetheart, no, I cannot be irresponsible, dishonest, and sneaky while begging others for help, and sitting back and judging others because they aren't as sneaky, dishonest, and unethical as me. You really ought to re-read your comments, you know, the ones where you claim that the poor are lazy and such? The ones where you claim they should just get off their asses and work a nine to five job...
If it's so gosh darn easy to get out of poverty, why are you still poor?
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Born being a poor is not a choice, but staying in it is not. You can overcome poverty by doing the things that you know that can uplift your life and financial status. I came from a poor family and we are working on uplifting our lives. We study and try to move on and make a better life everyday.-
Sometimes some people can rise out of poverty stricken circumstances, and sometimes, no matter how hard they try, they can't do so.
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Not only did they get paid madame. They got paid twice.
How is it unethical to pay the difference and move to a better place?-
Thats true.
Holly did say she paid the difference.
So, all of your points are null and void.
She may of breached the contract, but in the end, it was made good.
And BTW TT - She is not advocating the breaking of contracts.
That was just her circumstances. -
If the court hadn't order her to, I doubt she would have.
Not meeting your debt obligations willfully is akin to stealing. -
*Rolls eyes
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Prior to graduating college (for my second degree) I saved up enough money to quit working for the last month of school, as well as a few extra months, just in case. (I had to concentrate on my senior thesis, if I wanted to graduate). Upon graduation, I began sending out resumes. I also attended job fairs (pertaining to my degree), and traveled all over the East Coast looking for and interviewing for positions. No go. So instead I went back to work as a waitress, as well as some other part time stuff while I waited to find a career.
In the meantime, my husband and I got married. We rented a tiny apartment in the worst part of town (cheapest rent at that time) and we saved our money. I got pregnant, and we decided it was time to move. (Considering the drive-by shootings, crack houses and murders, plus the fact that we lived in a closet, we figured it best). At first, we searched for a house.
We were pre-approved and had a whopping downpayment. We just couldn't find anything in our price range. We looked for as long as we could, but it was time sensitive, so we decided to rent until we found something. Before we moved into the new apartment (slightly larger, slightly more expensive, similar but better neighborhood) the landlord changed the agreement on us, and wanted more money down/rent. We couldn't give her what she wanted, and so broke the lease (mutually) but were out about &850 because of it. OK, no big deal. My husband's family (non immediate) had an apartment for rent that was larger, and less expensive, so we went there.
BIG mistake. (Don't rent from family!). As it turns out, this particular family member is stark raving crazy. One day, after about a year of renting, we get an eviction notice. Huh? I call the attorney, he says it's for non payment. I laughed at him. He wasn't joking. (This is where it gets good) Not only did I pay every month by check but the stupid woman gave us receipts for every payment! LMAO. So we had not one, but two paper trails. Now, upon closer inspection of the receipts, I found out that this woman had been coming to me for the rent during the day, and then waited till I went to work at night and collected another rent payment from my husband. And gave him receipts for it....
OK, Now is a good time to mention that a few months after we moved to this place, my identity was stolen, and my bank account...emptied. Every last time plus thousands more....gone. (We never did recover that money). a few weeks prior to the eviction notice, my husband's company downsized, too. SO he lost his job
Now, we fought the eviction and won (turns out she just wanted to get her son in the apartment), but with the hostilities being aimed at us by the woman, and her immediate family, we had to leave, and quick. Unfortunately, with the ID theft, our credit was ruined (note* our credit was ruined even more after that point, but we thought that was the end of it then)...and with a lack of a decent paying job, and little to no savings after the court debacle, and a serious rise in rental prices, we simply could not get into a regular apartment or rental.
I called on a favor, and we got into the only place we could. it was, unfortunately, much to expensive for us (twice as much), but it was either that or the car. Plus it came with the promise of a better paying job, through the same connections. (oh, yeah, my husband was hit by a car in that winter, leaving him unable to work for a bit).
And that happened! My husband was making really good money, and I was doing OK bartending at that point, (I did have to give up the good nights because of my husband's schedule, though) and we saved up for the inevitable two month seasonal layoff.
Unfortunately, they laid my husband off a month before they were supposed to, and for more than two months. In fact, due to the rising costs of gas, they laid him off permanently. They just didn't bother to tell him until we were already struggling.
Oh, crap.
Well, my husband managed to make another connection for a temporary job, keeping a roof over our heads, and I began doing an at-home daycare. When his job ended though, we were at a loss - and he pulled it out of his ass, and managed to walk right into another job.
The pay, unfortunately sucks, and my day care kids have all gone off to pre-school
So, now we are at a point where we know that we cannot afford to live here much longer. We have tried to find cheaper rentals, there are none (everyone's trying to save their own homes from foreclosure by renting them out for very high prices).
We are trying, at the moment, to secure a cheap foreclosed home, but unfortunately the ID theft has scarred our credit so badly, that even though we have proof of payment, and even though we're asking for a very small loan - we cannot get one.
The only way we can prevent ourselves from sinking into the abyss of homelessness right now is to find a cheaper place to live. Our area has had over 6,000 layoffs just this month alone, getting a better paying job isn't going to happen. So getting a cheaper place must.
In the meantime, we are facing serious poverty. I've used the last of my connections, we have no more tricks up our sleeves, no jobs to double up on...
Ergo, I seriously, seriously find the notion of lecturing people on how to get out poverty offensive when that lecture includes scamming the system and living way beyond their means, while sitting back and judging others who have real, serious problems not of their own choice and making staring them in the face.
My husband and I have fought like hell for YEARS just to keep food on the table, and a roof over our heads. We are well below the poverty threshold, and it is highly likely that we will sink even lower in this economy.
This was NOT our choice, it was forced on us by people who were lazy and decided to steal, and be irresponsible and scam the system so that they could get their greedy little hands on whatever they want, screwing us in the process.-
Would you say you had a choice in all this?
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Nope, I didn't. I didn't choose to have my identity stolen. I didn't choose to have my life savings stolen, I didn't (knowingly) choose to rent from an insane batshitcrazy lady, I had no choice as to where we live now, and are desperately trying to get out of it, I had no choice in the downsizing of my husband's companies, or the fact that he was hit by a car.
I did not choose to be here, or to be poor.
Edited to add:
I did make one choice. I chose to remain ETHICAL and responsible. I met my obligations head on, and didn't screw anyone else to get ahead. -
However - You did chose how to react, and that has kept you out of the poor house for the time being.
I think you would have to agree that these problems have stemmed from a broken economic system.
Yes - These people screwed you over, but you did not lay down and take it either. -
Part skill, part luck, part who I knew.
I'll make no bones about it, if I didn't have the connections that I do, we would be in federal housing, on welfare, or homeless by now.
This apartment? Gotten by connection, with the luck that it happened to be vacant right when we needed it.
My husband's job? The first one, pure connection, the one he has now? 100% luck. They weren't even hiring when he walked in (he frequents the place anyway) and ran into someone he knew. They hired him on the spot, and created a job for him.
My actions actually had very little to do with how it's turned out. A lot of what we've done were mostly luck. Something just *happens* to be available right when we need it, I just *happen* to find a $100 bill in the street....(I did, too )
The only skill aspect is the fact that we barter for what we need. Skill is in bartering, but it's luck in finding exactly what we need.
If we actually had to buy any of the things we've bartered for? We wouldn't have anything. Not even a ride to work. -
Bravo!
But I refuse to believe that all this happened without your activeness in it.
Did you not choose how to respond in every moment of this journey?
Some people would of been too prideful to receive any help what so ever.
And some people would not of been so determined as you.
Some people would not of known that bartering was a valid option for them.
Some people would of turned to the bottle, others would of resorted to selling their bodies on the streets, other would of turned to a life of crime.
Everyone has a choice in the matter.
Our attitudes determine a lot in our circumstances.
The people that ended up helping you, they must of liked you guys to some degree.
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distract,decieve,deny.
I don't see that at all. I am not denying anything. I didn't to raise my girls in the projects or trailor park. We quit paying the trailor note.
My husband went to school and got a cdl. He got a job. We saved our money instead of paying the trailor note. We put that money down on a house. We had some in savings.When the trailor was sold we paid the difference.Plus the 5 years we lived there all the bank recieved was intrest. You don't pay anything on the pricipal until the end. The bank that foreclosed on the trailor got paid way more money than the stupid piece of tin was worth. It is like a car not a house it depriciatetes in value. I also made that concious choice to figure that out at the library. Wich anyone else can do.
Decieve: How have I decieved anyone. I am sitting here telling people I don't know from Adam my money situation. I am saying this in hopes that someone out there can read this exact comment and know they can do it to.
Distract: I guess that comes from the ramen noodle stuff. Yes Top ramen is very very cheap. I don't care if we have to eat top raamen my husband did also get a 12 point this year which I'm sick of too.
These kind of things is what builds character and a few funny memories too.
It is because of people like you Anok,Timetheif,and Madame X that "say no hunny your poor I understand. let's go find someone to give you a hand out instead of a hand up. Those kind of comments right there is what keep people opressed because they start to believe it. Everyone in this country has a choice except for the sick and mentally ill. If more people would get a mindset of Get up and Get-r-done there would be no poverty.
Not to mention the U.S.A. really doesn't know what true poverty is.
There isn't anywhere in America where you can't go into a public bathroom
and do your buisness with running water. You know instead of walking the 3 miles to go and get some nasty fecies infested well water in a 3rd world country somwhere. Saying your poor in the U.S.A. is an oxymoron. -
oh anok you call me a hipocrit
I had no choice any the money market.I had no choice in the gas prices.
I have no choice that a bag of potatoes cost 8$, I have no choice if the economy goes bust.
I do have a choice in how I'm gonna deal with it. I choose to get up and do something about it. You can call me lazy all you want to. I am not lazy. I am a person that gets up every morning and deals with life as it comes -
Oh yea I forgot to say the court didn't order me to pay for the trailor.
I did it because it was the right thing to do. -
Holly honestly I have never been a big fan of genital mutilation and force sterilization but that might not be a bad thing in your case.
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Ya think so pointless.
I love ur name it fits you well
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@ madamex: Thanks for the grammar lesson,but in MS we call it "RENIG"
you obviously never played a game of "SPADES". You should try it.
it'S a whole lot of fun. You know instead of pointing out people's spelling,
announciation,pronounciation,and composition.(Dejavu") I guess if that is your fun though so be it. -
Truly it's a choice. Our decisions are the greatest assets that we have including the decision to choose between good and bad, when we decide to choose not to do anything to overcome poverty or not to do everything that we can to stop it to occur in our lives we will really experience its' bitterness. -
Certain situations can trigger poverty, but with the right attitude and right amount of effort it should only be temporary. Especially if you have children, you should do everything in your power to make sure they don't feel the effects of poverty. -
@cltabert: That is my whole point to this thread and my blog.
I want to help. I wish I would've known you before your house was auctioned off. You could've done exactly what I did in my blog. I know it isn't a choice to be poor but it is a choice to come out of it. I did think outside of the box. I am taking a lot of heat from it in this little space. I don't care about that though. What I do care about is people like you who do want to make the choice to come out of it.
If you don't mind me asking do you think your husband could find a job and live in a little piece of crap place while you save your money.
If you can make that choice to do that then you can save up enough money to put down on another house. Or like I said earlier in the thread go to the library find out the real-estate laws in that particular state. I'm sure that if MS has a 2 year clause then most states at least have something similar to it.
Find out if you guys can snatch your house back from someone who bought it by paying off the pricipal.
Then if you don't mind swallowing your pride go and pound the pavement like
my husband and I did. You have 2 years to come up with the payoff (priciple)
you can take your home right back from whoever bought it. You are the exact reason I am doing what i'm doing. The next 2 years might suck. It did for us when we got started. I promise though it is worth it.
If you need anything please don't be shy. E-mail me at jaykend54@yahoo.com
I will tell you everything I have learned. Like I said it isn't gonna be easy but if I can do it you can do it too.
I'm sure you also probably heard people say that I scammed. I didn't I just want to assure you of that everything I've done has been legal. I haven't recieved funds from anyone. I have never recieve grant money as of yet.
I am planning on going back to school when my 4 year old goes to school next year. I have been researching real estate license. If I can get the grant and work part time while my girls are in school I am going to. Plus I have to wait for this stupid recession to be over. I promise if I can do it then so can you.-
Holly, I will e mail you right away. I'm also going to add you as a friend here on BC I would love to keep in touch and find out what you did to save your home. Although, I think it might be too late for us. Thank you so much for replying to my post!
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in the US of A, poverty is NO LONGER a choice. Expect much more poverty in the years to come.. Thank you BUSH Thank you Republicans, thank you regan and rganomics -
You will not say this if you See or heard about India
People live without a bread -
@ Anok
I just read your whole entire story which sounds a whole lot like mine.
#1 I am not lazy I wanna clear that up right now.Before I took on the job of being a mother I coctailed on the swing shift. I did a night audit, for
a hotel, which took about 3 hrs. I would go to sleep for 3hrs or so and go back to the hotel and clean rooms.(I would do that as a favor to the hotel owner.) That was before I got pregnant. I decided when I had kids I was not gonna let "the System" raise them. I have no shame in that at all. My girls are my life.
You say I have scammed people. That is just a blatant LIE. I am HONEST to a fault almost. I had people telling me at the welfare office just lie on your application and say you and your husband are seperated. I would have been approvred fof assistance if I did that. My girls would have healthcare
if I lied.
Also since you are saying I'm a scammer I am gonna prove I'm not. I found a 100.00$ on the floor of cvs pharmacy.I picked it up and looked for someone looking for it. There wasn't anybody in there so I figured who ever dropped it was long gone. I called cvs and asked if anyone had lost it.
There was a girl in there the day before balling and crying looking for that money. She was a housewife on a budget just like me. I gave it back to her and if you don't believe me call cvs pharmacy in Horlake ms on Hwy 51.
I sometimes wish I wasn't so freakin honest because I'd have alot more to show for it.
Also I think your definition and my definition of poor is different.
I don't consider myself poor. I consider my family going over another foothill on the rollercoaster of life.This to shall pass.
The whole point of writing a blog was to tell other people they can do what I did. That is not being a hipocrit.-
No, your story is nothing like mine. I have behaved responsibly and ethically. You chose to scam the system.
YOU destroyed your own credit by screwing the lender out of six months of payments so YOU could get a house you couldn't afford. YOU chose NOT to utilize the legal, ethical and legitimate options you had at your disposal, instead going for the easy way out. And YOU have repeatedly stated that those in poverty are lazy, don't work, and responsible for their own situations.
Pot, meet kettle.
Instead of ignoring and willfully refusing to make your debt obligations, why didn't you get a part time job like everyone else has to do? Why didn't you save that money for that six months, then sell the trailer to make your down payment? That would have been the RESPONSIBLE thing to do. And you probably would have had more money in your pocket to boot, and not ruined your credit. Instead you took the easy way out.
Just like the thieves who emptied my life's savings. Just like the thieves who destroyed the credit and credibility I had worked hard to earn. I earned it through RESPONSIBILITY and HARD WORK. Not by refusing to pay my mortgage or rent and refusing to get a job.
YOU are the reason why people like my husband and I can't catch a break. YOU are the reason lenders look at low income earners as a high liability. YOU and your decision to simply refuse to make your payments, and to consistently put yourself into situations where you are living way above your means and will simply stop paying when it no longer suits you are the reason my husband and I can't repair our credit, or lower our cost of living.
YOU and your actions give honest, hard working people who happen to make low incomes a bad name because you're lazy, irresponsible, and selfish. Lenders see what you've done - which is scam the system - and then refuse to give everyone with low incomes a chance because they figure we're all going to do that.
And, in case you're wondering - if you can't afford to buy food YOU'RE POOR. The national poverty threshold for a family of three is just under $20k per year. For a family of four, it's just over $20k per year.
How much are you making? Why aren't you working if you can't buy food?
Instead of hanging around a court all day, why didn't you spend that time working from home? Instead of taking the easy way out, why didn't you opt to work part time, and and create a downpayment by selling the trailer? My God if my husband and I had actually had something like that to sell? We wouldn't be in this mess.
Then again, I did state in my post:
identitycheck-anok.blogspot.com/2008/11/is-poverty-personal-choice.html
When you combine despair or depression, or even anger with a lack of education, or training for critical thinking you create a person who may not recognize, understand, or comprehend the available options, and may even create a fear of the unknown.
Looks like you fit the psychological bill. -
@Anok
No, your story is nothing like mine. I have behaved responsibly and ethically. You chose to scam the system.
YOU destroyed your own credit by screwing the lender out of six months of payments so YOU could get a house you couldn't afford. YOU chose NOT to utilize the legal, ethical and legitimate options you had at your disposal, instead going for the easy way out. And YOU have repeatedly stated that those in poverty are lazy, don't work, and responsible for their own situations.
Pot, meet kettle.
WOOT! Thank you for the clarity. IMO the psychological profile fits like a glove.
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@ Anok please again tell me what system I scammed!
The trailor is not like a house I have already stated that.
As soon as you take it off the lot it depreciates like a car.
I met my obligations in paying that piece of tin off. The day my Husband left to go to Ak for cdl school We called green tree and told them exactly
what was going on. That piece of tin was 24,000 dollars when my husband bought it. I didn't even know he existed. He lived there for 4 years.
He paid his note of 489$ a month. The bank green tree had already made 23,472$ off of him. That money was just intrest. You don't pay the priciple until the end of the loan. When he and I met we lived there for another 2 years before I got pregnant. So then GREEN TREE made another 11,000$ off of us. So the same bank (big business)(the same one you say I have scammed) has made so far 35,208 I think only like 6,000 went towards the pricipal.
Now not only did we tell them exactly what we were fixing to do we already agreed to pay the difference after auction. I am pretty sure that is why the foreclosure on the trailor took so long. It is because we were honest and fourthcoming in what we were fixing to do. Ya see unlike you I didn't have any connections or tricks up my sleeve. We did it on a wing and a prayer. We did it the honest way. The bank made almost triple on what that trailor was worth.
I know I sound like a broken record,but the day we closed on this house we had 4,000 dollars in savings. We did not foresee Ted being laid off the following mon. We did not foresee the 7,000$ dollars we had to spend to take care of the entire plumbing sysytem. When yes (big business) screwed us over again.
You obviously hadn't read my blog because when all of this was going on we couldn't catch a break we were not quallified for assistance. I did start knocking on doors and cleaning houses. I took my girls with me.
I only had to go to the court house steps on the 1st tues. of each month.
As for not being able to buy food,no like I said Ted got a 12 point and ramen is cheap. That is how it goes after christmas. I know it isn't just my family who is tapped out after christmas. Freight always picks up in feb.. I am not using any excuses at all.
The deal on my house that I saved and damn proud of it. My note went from 18
% intrest to 4%. That took my note from 899 a month to 368 a month. I will never have to worry about being homeless again. I didn't take the easy way out. I took a very very bumpy road and made it. I took an unconventional way out. I learned from my mistakes. Not only that I am still gonna keep putting my 2 cents in because I am gonna help as many people as I can.
Unlike you I do believe in paying it forward and if someone sees this comment right here and reads my blog and decides to do what I did. You know without any tricks up my sleeve then it will be well worth going through all these little blog catalog comments.-
Too bad you didn't cut back on your internet access and spent that money on birth control.
Have you ever watched the movie "Idiocracy" you are lik the example of why the IQ in this country dropped. Wait you probably are too poor to buy a VCR. Of course you could go to Rent A Center and get one and not make the payments on it. That is after all how you do things. -
Idiocracy is not a film that I have seen but "idiocracy" is what I have witnessed wherever this griever troll has posted into threads.
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like I said earlier ur name fits u well!
umm so like is that all u know how 2 say?
UUUmmm soo like are ya gonna try to make a point
on this thread or ummm ya just gonna keep talkin
a whole bunch a pointless stuff umm ??
I guess it's good that umm I like umm learned how
to um say a whole bunch uv nuthin 2 ummm?
Get a life NERD!-
Nerd? Really? What are you in eight grade or is that your reading level, you common piece of trash.
Go buy a box of Marlboros and a wire coat hanger just incase you get knocked up again and leave the internet to people that can actually debate a solid point. -
It's fixated on convincing us over and over again that it can't find it's way back under the bridge. It can't spell and it has no no command of grammar. It can't form logical thought patterns and can't follow lines of reasonable and rational thought. It's certainly not a blogger because it can't write.
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and IT IS STILL HERE!!!!!
to face another day with a smile on my face.-
You have demonstrated repeatedly in more than one thread your inability to comprehend how idiotic you sound. You have repeatedly demonstrated your inability to follow rational and reasoned thought processes so I'm thinking that the recommended treatment is the correct one.
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Yes I for one do agree with you, poverty is a state of mind & is a classification of our own perception of our lives, everything is relative !
Be thankful for what you do have & do not bitch about what you do not have!-
@Taffy, I agree exactly with the last line. You'll never be happy if you keep complaining about what you don't have. Appreciate what and who you have. You should be grateful you are healthy at the least. I guess people just don't really appreciate what they have till its gone.
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From my believe i must say that poverty is a choice-
U do. U think poverty is a choice? care to elaborate?
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IT will be here tomorrow and the day after for anyone who wants to ask me about how not to abandoned there foreclosed homes.
IT with her no sense of GRAMMER,COMPOSITION,PRONOUNCIATION,ETC........
will be here again tomorrow too.
It with no pollitical correctness who actually lives in the real world
and lives life on a day to day basis will be here the next day after that
too.
IT who belives anyone in AMERICA who truely wants the dream will be here to help the day after that.
IT won't be responding to people with names like "POINTLESS" and "TIME THEIF" anymore. I will only talk to real people with real names to help them in any possible way I can.
It is done talking to people who get off on tearing other's down to make them feel secure in their" SMARTNESS"
when you can't make a legit point ya resort to calling people
"IT" or ya say things like mr. pointless up there I'm for genital mutilation. ur loss not mine holla!!!!!-
I have a real name. Less talking, more action.
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what do u need maryse
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Watcha ya mean taffy?
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We all have this feeling that we need huge sums of money in order to find happiness !
When you're down on your luck just look around, you will always see people is a worse situation than yourself.
Therefore always be thankful for what you have & do not concern yourslef with what you do not have!
Taffy1957 - www.diy-pc-fix.com
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I absoulutly positively believe in that!!!!
hollyb27.blogspot.com -
maryse: read my blog. I am saying exactly what you just said.
I thought your home was in forclosure or something. If it is read my blog
anyone can do what I have done. that is my whole point to being in bc or posting threads like these. I WANT TO HELP THE PEOPLE IN THE SAME SITUATION I FOUND MY OWN SELF IN. I DID NOT DO ANYTHING ILLEAGAL. I DID EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE I WAS HONEST.-
I read your blog, but I fail to understand what you did exactly. You called a guy, possible member of the government and he gave you money just like that? Not everyone will get that opportunity.
I don't need help I live in London, one of the most expensive cities in the world to live in. Everyone is poor here. Isn't that ironic?
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I forgot to say I live for today. I love my girls and I know how blessed
we are that they are not sitting in st. jude right now. I guess people have the wrong idea of me because of everything that has been said in this thread.
Let me make it clear:
I HollytheHousewife living in southaven ms am a very very very blessed person. I am a proud mother of 2 gorgeous,healthy,smart and beautiful girls.
I don't consider myself poor although some people do.
I am not a lazy person by any means of the streach. I believe in the "GET-HER-DONE" philosophy.
I recently saved my foreclosed house by thinking outside of the box.
I HOLLYtheHOUSEWIFE did nothing absoulutely nothing ILLEGAL to save my house
I HOLLYtheHOUSEWIFE posted a blog on blog catalog and was excepted. It ruffled tailfeathers because I didn't have all of my periods in the right place,my composition sucked,and I didn't use the spell check.
Now besides all of that I am still here in blog catalog trying to reach
anyone out there who is struggling with their mortgage co..
I HOLLYtheHOUSEWIFE wants to let anyone know that if you are facing foreclosure don't hesitate to read my blog and e-mail me because if
I HOLLYtheHOUSEWIFE can save my house I'm sure you can do the same thing too. -
@ maryse
No one gave me money. I didn't ask anyone for money. I forced a fortune 500 company Who owned my mortgage co. to work with me. I did it by telling them I am never gonna give up. I went to the library and researched laws in the state of ms on realestate. I would go to the court house on auction day and ask people not to bid on my home. I told them that if they did bid on my home I can save up enough money and make the payoff on my home with in 2 yrs. of the sale. I told them it would be a waste of their money to buy my house now when I know under the law if I come up with that priciple payment
I can take it right back from anyone who bid on it. So the person who bid on the house would be out of a lot of money.
I never ever took any kind of money from anyone.
That is what I'm trying to say. IF I can save my house without taking money from someone. Then anybody can. I just want to help. that's it. period end of story. -
@pointless I forgot to say, um could you stay away from my blog and any threads I post because you sound like one of those dateline guys. I sure wouldn't wanna have to open a can. If you know what I mean. If you don't get the jest let me know and I can do my stupid talk again I have no problem on getting down to ur level. Remeber I'm frum the projakts
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Holly you completely demonstrate why the entire state of Mississippi should be blown up you inbred hick.
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@tt why don't u click the report button on yourself u are no different than he is. I on the otherhand am a big girl and can take care of myself.
holla! -
Thanks for the shout out maryse
I will definately keep the faith. -
Holly, just because you told someone you were going to do something doesn't mean that you were right in doing it.
Nor am I even buying your story anymore.
First of all, if your husband opted to purchase a trailer at 18% that means that by the time his loan was fulfilled, with compounded interest, he would have paid just over $40k for it. That's how mortgages - and in fact all loans with compound interest - works. Second, you always pay towards principle with every payment. When the loan starts you pay more towards interest, and less towards principle. As you pay the principle down each each the compounded interest is being calculated on less principle, making the interest lower, and the principle payments higher.
Further more, you're telling me that you only had $4,000 in savings to make a down payment for a house. The payments you supposedly saved by not paying only amount to $2934. Which means that you and your husband were only paying $5868 per year, and at just over 6 years (about the time you stopped paying) your loan would have been paid in full.
Also, unless you're living in a Winnebago, trailers don't depreciate like cars - in fact you contract that very assertion by stating that the lender was able to sell it and recoup all costs.
Then, then you expect us to believe that you were able to secure a loan, for a house, with no more than $4000 to your name, a low wage job and a foreclosure that had either recently finished, or was still in court finishing.
And somehow you got a house? You have stated that you used what saved in trailer payments was used for a "large down payment". $2,934? That's not a "large down payment". Mortgage lenders require a 20% down payment, plus closing costs. Now, even if your house was only $50k, a 20% down payment would be $10,000 - plus closing costs. If the house was only $25k, you would still have needed $5k.
People with bad credit, foreclosures, bankruptcies, and low incomes are required to provide a LARGER down payment. Like, between 30-40%.
Obviously, you did not have 30-40% of even the cheapest home price. A home that costs $20k with a 40% down payment would require $8,000. PLUS closing costs. You wouldn't have even been able to put a 10% down payment on a house that costs $30k or more, without forgoing closing costs, and completely wiping out your bank account.
So I'm going to throw the bullshit flag in right now.
And, yes, you need to admit that you are poor. Because as soon as you do, you won't be so quick to call poor people "lazy, and responsible" for their poverty. Once you admit that you are, in fact poor, you'll understand that every time you say that, you're talking about yourself. -
duhhhh ya think. ya need to watch what ya say ur little buddy tt is gonna
click the report button again.
like I said earlier mr. dateline. stay away from me. really I feel like I
need a bath after seeing ur cheesy avatar.
I am not seeking you out. you are seeking me. That's freakin creepy and just plain gross. leave me alone mr. pointless banter/dateline dude. -
no anok we put down 10,000 dollars! We had 4000 in savings for an emergency!
The problem was the emergency costed 7000 dollars plus ted got laid off.-
So, let me get this straight, now you're telling us that you had stashed away $11,066 prior to reneging on your loan? And you decided to destroy your credit for a measly $2934? And you couldn't think of any other way to make that money?
Let's throw out a few numbers, shall we?
If you had picked up a part time job (20 hours per week) for minimum wage ($6.44 per hour) minus taxes (18%) you would have netted: $2534.79 in six months, $5492 in one year, and $7604.36 in a year and a half (18 months).
If you worked only 15 hours per week you would have netted: $1901.09 in six months, $3801.38 in one year, and $5703.27 in a year and a half.
If you had run an at home day care, for $100 per child (like I have done), for only two children you would have netted: $3936 for six months, $7872 for on year, and $11808 for a year and a half.
That's what you would have saved had you bothered to get a job working around your husband's schedule, and still being able to stay at home with your children.
Now, had you paid the loan with your husbands pay checks, and banked yours, you would have paid the trailer off fully after 18 months. (starting on year six, going by the numbers you provided, the loan would have been paid fully in 7.45 years - which raises a red flag for me, but so be it.)
Now I took the liberty of checking on mobile home prices in Mississippi. Here is a general list: mississippi.mobilehomes-for-sale.com/MobileHomesForSale.php?State=MS&City=C.... I found used mobile homes ranging between $44k to about $19k, at their resale value. After you paid off the trailer, you could have resold it probably for about $17k.
What would you have had had you been honest, and not taken the easy way out? Let's add it up:
Working a 15 hour per week job, and waiting 18 months you would have had: $11,066 to start with, $5703.27 saved, and $17,000 for the trailer sale. That's $33,769.27 dollars saved up, and GOOD credit.
Had you worked 20 hours per week you would have had: $35,670.36
And had you run a daycare you would have had: $39,784.00 and good credit.
Not only would that have provided a hefty down payment, but also a rather nice financial cushion, preventing the second foreclosure.
However, from what I gather in your replies, you have a particular disdain for poverty, and, in your rush to distance yourself from it you actually lost over $25,000. You see, you refuse to accept that you are poor because if you admit that you are, then all of the nasty stereotypes and othering you have heard and said yourself becomes directed at you.
No one in this thread - but you - has stated that poverty is a shameful thing. No one has implied that poverty makes people less than - but you. You can't admit that you are poor because if you do, you become one of "them". And as we can see, you were simply too good to live in a trailer and needed to get out at any cost - in fact you "got out" alright, at a great cost. Ruining your credit, the reputations of low income earners nationwide, and making yourself poorer.
Not too smart. Now tell me, why do you think anyone should take your advice on "how to do it"?
By the way, if your $10k down payment was only 10%, that tells me you went after a $100k house. For someone who had trouble paying for a $24k trailer, I'd say that's rather ambitious. Not to mention the fact that a $100k loan with compounded interest will run you: $194254.37. total, provided you got the lowest rate possible, and not including taxes and insurance.
With a more probably interest rate of about 10% due to your poor credit, your loan would run you: $284333.19.
At what point will you look at your statements, or crunch the math and do the same thing you did with the trailer? Deciding that they've simply earned enough of your money, and so you'll refuse to pay them anymore?
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Not only did we put 10,000 down the buyer paid all closing. Anyway I don't care if you don't buy my story. That's ur perrogative. Just don't respond to me and I won't respond to you. like I said my point is helping other people and that's what I've been doing.
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trailors do depreciate hunny call fleetwood. I'm not wasting anymore time argueing w/u anymore. We put down 10%. If it makes you feel better to call me poor then go ahead. I give a damn hunny. If you live in the USA you don't really know what poor means anyway.
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it is a choice... poverty is a noun the represent nothing... but i would think that if you put action on it and use your skill to develop your life then it would be great. I don't think GOD wants you to be poor. you need to strive hard or harder to earn money. -
Of course it's a choice. Why wouldn't someone choose poverty? Poverty is fantastic, luxurious, and glamorous. I've seen children in shanty towns on the outskirts of third world cities, running in the muck and playing with garbage. Why wouldn't they choose that life? It's fabulous. -
@ maxisangry
I am talking about povery in america(oxymoron) compared to other countries.
On a global scale. the usa is freekin donald trump. I have already said that
we don't know what true poverty is in the good ol USA-
Yeah, I see this a lot. Someone who is poor or who has been poor, thinking they can climb up out of their situation by stepping on other people in it.
Know how rich people get rich? One of the things they do is treat others with respect. The ones who get rich legitimately, who don't screw others over to do it, and who have sustainable wealth also have a network of friends who would go to hell and back for them. They earn respect and they deserve it.
This is no way for you to earn respect OR to get out of your bad situation. One of the cruel ironies of life in America is that if the poor would just quit stabbing one another in the back so damn much, they could band together and pool resources and get through their financial problems that much faster. It is what immigrants do, which is why they get ahead faster than you do.
As for whether we have poverty in this country, yes, we do, and I have seen it. It may not compare to, say, Somalia, but we aren't Somalia. We do, however, have a LOT more poverty and misery than Sweden. Explain that one.
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I saved my house by asking where my husband's tax dollars were going.
I got my 18% intrest dropped down to 4%. I am not lazy.I got my ass up and
did something about it. Now I make my first payment of a whopping 289.00 is due feb.1st. The reason we had to go back to ramen,biscuts,and tomoato gravy is because our hotwater heater and washing machine broke one right after another The week before christmas. We will get a good check next week though.
You know what I think being poor is a state of mind. If you would like to be the victim of your circumstances that's ur perrogative. You can be poor pitiful Anok.
I on the other hand I don't look at myself as poor poor pitiful me.
We have a roof over our head,food in our bellies,and I don't have to hear
shots fired in the "mound" no more. (it's a memphis thang)
Holla-
Liar.
A $100k loan with a 10% down payment at 4% interest without tax and insurance would still cost you $429.67 per month, and a total of $154,682.56.
Not $104040, which is the total of your supposed payments over 30 years.
And you are not fooling anyone by saying you got an 18% interest dropped to 4%. People with perfect credit barely get that good of a rate. Certainly not people with not one, but two foreclosures, and a low income.
You do pity yourself, that's why you pretend that you're not poor. I have no problems admitting that I'm poor - then again, I'm not ashamed of myself. -
Where is the popcorn...
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I'll pour us both a libation ...
while we get ready to read the dialog starring the hop-a-long holly, the queen of bullsh*t
... in Distract, Deceive and Deny
... cue the music "what a friend we have in jeebuzz" -
phew! pass the popcorn and bloody mary please!
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Welcome ... and I'll have that libation mixed for you momentarily.
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Has anyone else noticed that the payment she quoted adds up almost exactly to the simple addition of $100k plus 4% interest ($4,000 stretched over a thirty year period)? That's the same mistake many people make. They don't realize the interest is compounded.
Almost, anyway. She rounded up a dollar. It should literally be:
288.8888888888888888888888888889 -
Would you like me to prepare you a libation?
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Scotch and water on the rocks, please.
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Coming right up
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You can choose to *try* to get out of poverty. But getting out of poverty is a two-sided affair, just like getting a job. You can do everything right when you are job-hunting: get a nice interview suit, have someone help you put your resume together, do everything perfectly in the interview and even have great references. But if nobody will hire you? You can't *take* a job, you can only be *given* one. Similarly, you cannot *take* anyone's money--that would be robbery. You can only be *given* money, and only if the person with the money thinks you deserve it.
It is also important to remember that you can't read anyone's mind. You can't look at someone sitting at home watching TV and know that they have been doing that their entire lives. For all you know, they just got done searching frantically for a job for the last six months and absolutely nothing has come up. I mean, I have seen a guy who usually works as a programmer, get caught up in that frantic search for at least that long after the dot-com bubble burst. If someone comes from a disadvantaged background, no experience, no connections because he's lower-class? That search is going to be even harder.
On top of that, people like you are so angry at the poor that you have pushed the government into doing mean things to them to make it even harder yet to get ahead. Latest example of this: Congress decided in 2006 that "full-time college student" no longer qualifies as employment for the purposes of obtaining TANF benefits. Apparently, if you started out poor and you have kids, you have no right to expect anything except a job at McDonald's for the rest of your life. Is that enough to feed two kids on? Too bad, and your welfare benefits will expire in five years as well. You could always get promoted to manager, but that's not exactly wallowing in riches.
Even if someone is like you picture them, lazy and shiftless and doesn't care, does that mean they deserve to die? That is the logical outcome of saying "poor people make themselves poor," because the only reason you would say that is to justify not giving them any help.
Ten years ago this month I went from being a somewhat comfortable lower-middle-class Army wife to poverty because my then-husband made a really stupid choice. *I* did not make that choice. He has had a lot more help and shelter and situational advantages along the way than I have. He is now better off than I am. How surprising. But people just looking at me would be contemptuous of me, assuming I got myself this way (still not high-income, not even moderate-income) and that there is no other possible explanation. I know some people get rich or even comfortably middle-class in ten years. I had no idea how to do it, and I needed time to stop and grieve (I lost my son as well, to his family) that nobody was willing to give me. So... *shrug* It is what it is. -
"In AMERICA", because of Liberty, Democracy, All IS POSSIBLE
IF YOU WANT ...AND if YOUR SOCIAL ENVIRONMENT too ! to overcome poverty... YOU CAN.
It's MORE POSSIBLE IN USA !
helismadagascar.blogspot.com/-
Amen to that igakely
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Would you like to call john j. mack I have his number.and still have his voice mail saved on my phone.
Ya know what's really funny is you with your college degree is poor.
me and my husband w/o our college degrees are not. We don't play the poor poor pitiful me game. I don't have to prove anything to you but,since I'm trying to help other people (unlike you that is fixing to bid on someone's foreclosed house) Here is John J. Mack's office number at morgan stanley.
You will probably have to talk to his chief of staff Sally Newcomb to verify if my story is true or not. (212)761- I am gonna e-mail u the rest because I'm not fixing to get a person that just helped me mad.
so go ahead and do ur little verification. We will also see if you are an honest person which I highly doubt ya know with ur litte trick up ur sleeve comment.
It is an 85,9000 loan I already said that to.
What your problem is is that with your little degree is JEALOUS that a dumb barefoot and pregnant housewife can acomplish something. While you sit their and play the poor pityful me victim card.
Like I said I will be e-mailing u John J. Mack's phone # and u can find ur little proof.
Holla-
Holly, if your loan was $89,500 at 4% then you would make a monthly payment of $410.10, not $289. And $10,000 is ten percent of $100k, not $89,500.
Do you understand how math works? Do you even have access to the finances? Why do you keep changing the numbers? Why do you feel the need to make up stories? Are you trying to make yourself look better, so that you feel OK about yourself?
You would need to borrow $60,500, at 4% for thirty years in order for your monthly payments to be $288.84.
Here, let me help you:
compound interest
Interest computed on the original principal plus any accrued interest. Thus if 5% is the rate of interest per year and the principal is $1000, the compound amount after one year will be $1050, after two years it will be $1050 × 0.05 = $1102.50, after three years it will be $1102.50 × 0.05 = $1157.63, and so forth. Mathematically, if P is the original principal and I the rate of interest expressed as a decimal, the compound amount at the end of the nth year will be P(1 + I)n. The growth of the compound amount is exponential and not linear. Compare simple interest.
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I don't have ur e-mail so I'm gonna put it in ur shout box as private.
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@ tt: blah, blah, blah,
You still have failed to tell me how I've
DISTRACTED
DECIEVED
DENIED
TELL ME PLEASE! STILL WAITING?????????? (I did that bc I know punctuation offends u) -
actually 67,000 have u still not read my blog
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Oh, OK so it went from $100k to $89,500, and now it's $67,000? Just like that?
Pick a number, any number!
Besides, $67,000 is still too much for your monthly payments. That works out to $319.87 per month.
No, I think you had your incorrect figures right the first time. You multiplied $100k by 4%, and divided it by thirty years, then twelve months and rounded up a dollar to get to $289. Of course, that's not how it works.
Oh, and by the way, thanks for the contact info. I'll be sure to let Mr Mack know that you are passing along his private information online, and telling people on your blog to call him and to harass him for the awesome deal you are trying to convince people he gave you here on BC.
Don't bother erasing anything, either. I've already taken screen shots of everything. I'm sure he'll appreciate it.
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Like I said Anok call John J. Mack. I just left u the #
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I think that a lot of people get stuck in poverty because they choose not to try to get out of it. For example, not getting an education, not trying for those better jobs, etc. However if you're really trying, then it's not a choice. And sometimes it's because of how you've been conditioned to believe the world is. -
It was 67,000 to be exact. Like I said earlier I'm the dumb housewife from MS remember. I don't have ur little degree. So like I said earlier call the number I gave u. Speak to Sally Newcomb his chief of staff. They will probably put you through to my negotiaer Dee Sweat. They all have my number if I have to approve u to speak to them. Like I said I am not here to argue W/ poor pitiful Anok who is a victim of her circumstance. I am here to help anyone who needs help w/ their home in foreclosure.
Like I said if I can do it so can they.
Ps I know mr.dateline/pointless banter is ur friend. So if u don't mind telling him to stay away from me it would be greatly appreciated. He really
does have me a little nervous. So maybe he will listen to u.
ps ps don't be scared to call John J. Mack's office he sounds like a pretty
nice guy.
Now that I have said all of that I won't be responding to you and Time Theif's threads or blogs or whatever. I don't want to waste anymore time argueing. Ya know with the people who think they have degrees are sooo above
the rest of the human population!!!!!!
Holla!-
Nor a grasp of sixth grade English.
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If you wanna post his # all over the internet that's ur perrogative.
I will call that office monday morning and tell them what is about to
happen. I don't know if it's criminal or not.
I gave the number to u in private. I am sure if that is criminal they will figure it out.
You can do what ever you think you need to do with that info. I am just trying to prove to anyone who can see this comment that if a dumb,pregnant,barefoot housewife from Ms can save her home from foreclosure
so can they.
So go ahead and make that info public I'm sure whoever gets ahold of your or my computer will figure out who is using his number will be found out.
It sounds to me like you are the one who distracts,deccieves,denys,.
Is that all you can come back with instead of calling me a liar/scammer instead of admitting that what I'm doing is being honest. Remember you didn't buy my story now that I'm giving you proof. All you can come back with is that your gonna post his private number online instead of saying
I guess she was telling the truth. Go ahead do what ever you think you need to do. That is what I call smoke and screens. That is what I call a scammer and probalbly most of the population. Go ahead and do what you want
to do though with that info. You will be found out.
HOLLA!-
Holly, you haven't proven anything.
Go back and do the math, even a $67,000 loan at 4% isn't $289 per month.
Not to mention you keep changing your numbers. First it was $100k, then $89.5K Now it's $67k.
My God, I GAVE you the loan amount that you would need to take out to make your payments $289 per month. And you still can't get it right!
And I'm quite sure that The CEO, his secretary, or other business partners will not be happy to hear that you are telling people "what to do" about their mortgages. Particularly not when you're claiming that you supposedly got them to knock off $373,143.09 on a high rick loan, and by some magic number counting, can pay $289 per month for a $100k house by harassment.
Oh, and by the way, this "college educated ass" would have NEVER acted the way you did. If you go back to the reply with all the numbers in it, you would see exactly what I would have done.
Which is not be irresponsible, lazy, selfish and lose over $25k all just to get into a house I couldn't afford, anyway.
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mr. Pointless/Datline dude I AM NOT GONNA SAY IT AGAIN. STAY AWAY FROM ME.
you can ride the coat tails of TIME THEIF and ANOK.
When they respond to me could you please stay away.I am serious as a heart attack. You gross me out. STAY AWAY!!!!!!!-
You do realize that's a character from Teenwolf, right?
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I'm a damn handsome man... and I have all my teeth. So in your neck of the woods that makes me a catch.
I wouldn't come around if you didn't stop bumping this train wreck of a thread.
Anok... she is not poor thus she spends time at the country club.
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Oh, by the way, that number you gave me popped up as a business named "Sewkbyme" in the garment district of New York.
Forgot the link:
74.125.45.132/search?q=cache:KAbPw33IpS0J:www.magicyellow.com/category/Sewi...(whol)/Staten_Island_NY.html+212-764-7500&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=us -
Anok,I'm sorry but you haven't given me anything. About proving somthing to you. I don't have to,but, I going to so other people don't think I'm a
scammer. Like I said we can call monday and you can hear the numbers. It's ur call. I'm willing we can do a conference call. let's do it.
I already told you I don't have a college degree. I might have gotten confused on numbers,but we can clear that up on monday.
I am not here to prove anything to you. John J. Mack's cheif of staff "Sally Newcomb can put us through to Dee Sweat and she can give you any number you want. It's up to you, I just think you like to use your little degree to tear down other people and you picked the wrong person this time.
So are you game or not. Let's call. I have no problem with it at all. Little miss poor poor pityful me w/ a college degree.-
That's not even his number for Christ's sake. It's a sewing machine shop. Amazing what a phone book can do.
If you want to pay $289 per month, your loan needs to be $60,500 at 4%.
www.blogcatalog.com/discuss/entry/is-poverty-a-choice#comment_749116
You would need to borrow $60,500, at 4% for thirty years in order for your monthly payments to be $288.84.
Here, let me help you:
compound interest
Interest computed on the original principal plus any accrued interest. Thus if 5% is the rate of interest per year and the principal is $1000, the compound amount after one year will be $1050, after two years it will be $1050 × 0.05 = $1102.50, after three years it will be $1102.50 × 0.05 = $1157.63, and so forth. Mathematically, if P is the original principal and I the rate of interest expressed as a decimal, the compound amount at the end of the nth year will be P(1 + I)n. The growth of the compound amount is exponential and not linear. Compare simple interest. -
Ha! ha! ha! You were unethical and so freaking stupid that no matter how many times Anok explains your own stupidity to you - you just don't get it. Perhaps your head is rammed so far up your anal fissure that you have lost the ability to think.
Pass the popcorn - there's yet another attention whore to watch.
LMAO
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oops sorry typo I just gave u the right #
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Thank you, I'm searching it now.
In the meantime - I went and checked Morgan Stanley's mortgage rates and required qualifications:
www.morganstanleyhomeloans.com/DailyRates/DailyRates.aspx
Daily Rates
Today's Rates as of 1/10/2009 8:56:20 PM EST View PDF version
Rates are subject to change without notice.
The rates below are our best rates and assume the following:
* Client has a credit score of 740 or higher, and is a U.S. citizen or permanent resident
* Full documentation
* Loan-to-value ratio is not more than 80% on the borrower’s primary residence. (The loan-to-value [LTV] ratio is calculated by dividing the loan amount by the lesser of the purchase price or the appraised value of the property.)
* Purchase or no cash-out refinance on a single-family dwelling, condominium or town home in the continental U.S, which will be used by the applicant as their primary residence
* $295 application fee, a $495 processing fee, and a $395 underwriting fee (in states where applicable)
30 Year Fixed
$50,000 - $417,000
Up to 80% LTV
*This APR was based on a loan amount of $100,000.00 5.500%* 5.612%* 4.750%* 4.750%*
$50,000 - $417,000
Up to 80% LTV
*This APR was based on a loan amount of $100,000.00 7.250%* 5.216%* 6.500%* 5.064%*
The rates displayed on this page are available to borrowers who qualify based on MSCC’s standard underwriting criteria, including loan-to-value, property type, credit worthiness, with credit scores of 740 or higher, who provide full documentation, and with a loan-to-value ratio of 80% or less on their primary residence.
They don't even offer a 4% rate.
www.morganstanleyhomeloans.com/InformationCenter.aspx?Doc=DocumentsRequired
borrowers are asked to provide:
* Pay stubs for the two most recent pay periods (not more than 30 days old)
* W-2 forms for the two most recent years
* Tax returns for the previous two years and all supporting schedules
* Rental, lease, and/or partnership agreements (if applicable)
* Trust documentation/agreements (if applicable)
* Investment statements
* Written explanations of any of the following (if applicable):
o Late payments
o Bankruptcy, schedule of creditors, and discharge papers
o Defaults, foreclosures
o Judgements, liens
* Survey, as required by state (First Mortgages only)
* Current homeowner's insurance declarations
* Flood Insurance Declaration page (if applicable)
How did you explain away your previous foreclosure?
And you still haven't explained how $289 per month equals $67,000.
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If ur game I'm game. We can call the right number Monday and get mrs. Dee sweat to give u all the numers that she crunched. Like I just said I gave u the right number in ur box this time.
I don't need your help w/ anything. This is what I (dumb,pregant,barefoot,lazy,diluted, and dillusional) Housewife from MS without her little college degree is paying 289.00$ for a house then I'm gonna help as many people as I can who are willing to make the CHOICE to stop feeling sorry for themselves and get up and do exactly what I did.
PERIOD END OF STORY
HOLLA!-
Do what, exactly? Renig on their financial obligations not once but twice and still not be able to feed her children?
How to lose out on over $25,000?
How to game the system so you can be barefoot and pregnant and not have to work?
How to lie about your current situation?
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@tt
Another attention whore to watch. This just keeps getting better. Woo hooo
you do realize you are showing your true inttelectual ability W/ her little college degree. You are showing the world what you really are. You must be so very proud of yourself. -
Keep thinking that pointles/ Dateline dude. In my neck of the woods you would have a good southern ass kickin. Then the sheriff would take ur little dateline ass to be his personsal trustees. That is as long as his grand babies weren't around.
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Keep it coming ... and with any luck at all you can get your own thread deleted for being such an fool that it's almost beyond belief. If you represent the the average IQ of the housewives in your neck of the woods, then it's possible that the wildlife are more intelligent than you are. I sure do hope that you aren't homeschooling your kids in math or for that matter English.
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Holly.
Exponential functions are special in that the value of the function is equal to the derivative of the function. The slope at 2 equals the value at 2. (This is only true if a*b^x + c, a=1, c=0).
scienceblogs.com/builtonfacts/2008/12/sunday_function_16.php
Exponential functions are a bit different than linear functions in that the slope is not constant. Anok's math is right. -
No how to find out how to save your home from foreclosure by standing up to big business. You would find out how you can learn from your past mistakes.
You know not buying a pice of tin that deprecitates like a car instead of
appreciates like a house. You can learn you don't have to play the victim card. You could learn how to stare adversity in the face and win. You could learn it doesn't take a college degree to live the "American Dream". As long as your willing to get up and do something about your situation.
I can't thank you enough for proving my point. People like you actually like to play the victim. You are the disgrace to the single mother who has made the CHOICE to no more of this poor poor pitiful me shit. You are the disgrace to people who can't get a hand up. You are the one telling them they don't have a choice. You are the one who tells people you are poor and you can't do anything about it. So stay in that state of mind because you think the world owes you something.
I on the otherhand will continue to tell people that they can do something
about it. As long as they have the will and drive.
So are you ready to call monday or not?
Have you tried that number yet or not? Miss poor poor pitiful Anok.-
[Miss poor poor pitiful Anok.]
Don't be so condescending.
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What's your point voo doo. Like I said remember (I'm the dumb housewife) from MS. I'm not the one with the college degree. I'm the one who just called Anok out to see if she will call w/ me to find out if I'm a scammer
or not.
I'm telling you ms. dee sweat will give her all the #'s.
Do ya feel so proud of ur self? Ya know with ur little chart and all.-
Stop being condescending. Seriously. It doesn't take a college degree to be civil.
Also, it would take A LOT to get Anok to call you. Phone numbers can be traced, and she tries her damnedest to remain anonymous.
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R u serious Voodoo ?? (condescening)? Have u read anything in this thread
at all? Please don't tell me you have a degree too.-
[Have u read anything in this thread at all?]
Yes. The first 10 and last 50 posts. I can infer what happened inbetween without wasting my time. (Medieval faire tomorrow!)
[Please don't tell me you have a degree too.]
Not yet.
I'm in semester #2 of at least 16. (I'm pursuing a Ph.D. My major is Computer Engineering; my minor is Mathematics. If you have any tough math questions, I'd love to answer them.)
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to some it is - to some NOT. :-) -
I don't want Anok to call me. I want Anok to call John J. Mack of Morgan Stanley. I am trying to help people without college degrees to have a good life.
Numbers can be traced. what is ur point? I didn't say numbers couldn't be traced. Maybe u should read a little bit. -
So the question is, IS POVERTY A CHOICE?? Sociologically their has to be a balance and contrast on our material plane for growth. Both as a people and individually. Without darkness we wouldn't know light, same with hot/cold, wet/dry etc.. This God given Law of Balance and Contrast (represented by the scales) also encompresses wealth & poverty. In every nation and every village, there is a hierarchy of wealth & power balanced by the lack thereof. We can learn from observations (easiest way) or we can become mirred in poverty and everything that it comes with for many life times. With this said, there will be a time when this law of Balance and Contrast will not be needed anymore on this plane. Christians, Jews, Islamist, Hindu's etc. all believe in a Messiah figure that will take away many componets of this Law. "A new heaven & a new earth," if you will. The poor will be with us until then.
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Whatever voodoo. No I don't have any questions. I made it this far without
calculous. I should be able to make it at least the next 20 years without it.-
Yes, but abstract mathematics makes the world a more wondrous place.
Did you know that four perfect cones of equal radius and height, when melted down, will form a perfect sphere of the same radius? -
How about this: Did you know you could cake into 8 equal pieces without involving the third dimension? Just make a circular cut equidistant from the center of the cake at a distance of the cake's radius divided by the square root of 2.
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no i did not, though now, should i need to know that i do -
It's not crucial to most peoples' lives, but it's interesting to think about.
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it is absolutely crucial to peoples lives, it is ... will continue this when i get back from the movies
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OOOOOO mr.or mrs.hermster (I'll check out ur profile later) You don't wanna bring
GOD into this. The folks here on blog catalog think if you believe in GOD
you are as good as a floor mat.-
Nothing could be further from the truth.
Nobody thinks less of religious people. We just think less of religious thinking in nonreligious matters. -
Well, I'll call it The Source or Big Daddy : ) I don't consider the dogma's of organized religion at all. It's easier explaining these ancient beliefs through the prism light they're able to see. There Is No Reigion Greater Than Truth. The anti-dogma destroyer phrase.
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Or nature. Or anything, really. The "natural" Law of Balance and Contrast, or just "The Law of Balance and Contrast" works, too.
Of course, if you want to mention God, go ahead. Einstein used the word God as a metaphor for the universe and you don't see me complaining.
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Voodoo I'm dumb remember. How in the holy hell is a house wife gonna wrap her head around that?
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Your intellect is only as limited as you let it be. Your choice to limit your own intellect up to this point in time might be the result of environmental conditioning, but nothing is forcing you to remain chained down to a certain intelligence. For this, we are all fortunate. Those who do not use their brains essentially throw them away in an act of disrespect for the unfortunate who cannot liberate themselves from culturally enforced ignorance.
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Hey sir Almo!!! long time no see huh?
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luv it hermster
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Thx Timethief
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voodoo
r u trying to make amends. I belive I'm smart. It is the rest of BC who doesn't. Hello hence all the name calling when ever I put my 2 cents in.-
Insisting that you're smart is egotistical. Actions speak louder than words. If you're so damn smart, show us. Show us how freaking smart you are.
What I was speaking of earlier is that people could understand calculus if they tried, but few make the effort. And it's disrespectful to them for someone who has the opportunity to better himself/herself to not take it.
Am I trying to make amends? Hell no. -
Smart - you?! That's what I mean by deluded. You are not at all smart. In Canada you would test far below the functional norm.
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I am wondering why people are wasting time on this thread...-
I dunno. It's going to get deleted soon anyway.
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I am saying that because people like anok have obviously spent time trying to be nice, but shot down by this buffoon.
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Not to worry it shoots blanks ----
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Holly: When was the last time you told yourself, "I'm wrong. Why didn't I see it earlier?"
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my whole intire point on this crazy crazy sight is to help people come out of the situation that I found myself in. If people think I can't "hang" because I don't have a degree (I will get one as soon as my girls don't need me 24/7) Just because I can. I am a good, honest, and huge hearted person that wants to leave a small foot print on the world.
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What does this have to do with anything at all?
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I will never tell myself I'm wrong. As long as I keep getting e-mails from
people who want to know what I did.-
IMO the reason you never tell yourself you are wrong because you need professional help. I pity the people who you are actively misleading with regard to this mortgage codswallop you have cooked up. Hopefully, they will be intelligent enough to be able to ascertain as we have, how very unethical and misguided you are, as well, as your mathematical deficiencies.
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[I will never tell myself I'm wrong.]
Bingo. That's the problem, right there. I tell myself I'm wrong whenever I am. I always consider the possibility that I'm mistaken, or that my logic is flawed.
The only way to get smarter is to test your ideas out. When you're right, acknowledge it. When you're wrong, examine it.
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I wonder why this thread hasn't been deleted yet?
Helloooooo because I'm legit and all of u just love to
tear people down.!!!!!!!!!!!!-
We are attempting to help you see the light so you do not mislead others and that's why this thread has not been deleted. You were unethical. You lied and you cannot even understand the math when it's explained to you over and over again and again because you lack the ability to follow reasoned and rational trains of thought. Worse still you are putting your situation forward to others as though it was an honorable and intelligent solution when it is neither.
"When you combine despair or depression, or even anger with a lack of education, or training for critical thinking you create a person who may not recognize, understand, or comprehend the available options, and may even create a fear of the unknown." identitycheck-anok.blogspot.com/2008/11/is-poverty-personal-choice.html
Looks like you fit the psychological bill.
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"If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end in doubts; but if he will be content to begin with doubts he shall end in certainties." by Sir Frances Bacon 1794.
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Hello tt who is talking to u? Anybody? That's what I thought.
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[Hello tt who is talking to u? Anybody? That's what I thought.]
"Anybody?" That probably isn't what you meant to say.
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ok tt
u are still making no sense at all. I saved my house. You did not.
Are u gonna make a point at sometime in this thread.-
TT never lost her house in the first place. In fact, I think TT built her own house...herself.
Imagine that = people doing things the right way end up not having these problems! -
My husband and I have both worked since we were children. We both came from very large families and we both helped to raise our younger siblings and our cousins and our foster brothers and sisters because we were the eldest in our families. We worked out of home and brought money into our families since we were old enough to get a social security card. We worked and we went to college and university while we worked and we still got honors grades.
We purchased our first home when it was at lock up stage and lived in the back of our pickup truck and continued to build it until it passed inspection and we could move into it. At the same time we sent money home every month to pay fro the little ones food, clothes and educations as they grew older. Then we built our our studio and we worked in the system and in the studio and saved until we paid the house and the studio out fully.
Next we worked and saved until we had enough money to purchase and pay off our acreage, and we worked hard until we had enough money to build our own home on it with a studio below it (2 story) with our own hands from scratch. I designed the house myself. We paid it out and then we helped our younger siblings to get their own homes too.
We live a very simple, rural life. We draw water from our well and carry it in from the creek when it's dry or when ot snows and the pipes freeze. We split our own firewood and kindling. We do not own any conveniences like ipod, or any electronic stuff other than this computer and an old one my husband sometimes uses. We shop at charity shops and we give generously to all children's programs and youth clubs in our community both in work and in cash. We are respected members of our community.
We have never cheated and we have never lied as you have done. -
****APPLAUSE*****
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yea voodoo.That is what I meant 2 say.
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"Nobody?" would have fit better.
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This is what your blog teaches others to do.
How to renig on financial obligations not once but twice and still not be able to feed their children.
How to lose out on over $25,000.
How to game the system so you do not have to work.
How to lie about your current situation.
All this so they can live the so-called "American Dream" of living beyond their means by deception and stealth.
In other threads you have gone on a great length about being a Christian. There is no indication whatsoever in either the Old Testament or the New Testament that this kind of unethical behavior is acceptable in God's eyes. Therefore we must assume that as you believe in hell that's where you are expecting to wind up. It's too bad that you are willing to counsel others how to get to that presumed destination as well.
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@ voodoo
I did test my Ideas out.That is how I saved my house duhh!!!-
I think you should test the theory of "what would happen if I ran into oncoming traffic on a major freeway?"
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@ hermster
believe me. I had my doubts. -
Let's recap, shall we?
First Holly claims to have stopped paying on her trailer because the lender had already made more than enough money, and they couldn't resell it because they "depreciate like cars".
Contradiction - Holly claims that the lender sold the trailer and recovered the money, and that they "weren't paid once, but twice" the money she paid them, and the money selling the trailer. Obviously, the trailer didn't depreciate that much.
Then Holly claims to have used what they saved by to paying their note to make a large down payment on a home.
contradiction: Holly only saved $2934 dollars, but later claims she had $10k for the down payment.
Holly then claims to have had the down payment and $4k in savings saved up, and added what they saved to it, totaling $14,000. She also claims that she applied $10k of that money towards the new house as a 10% down payment.
Contradiction: Holly claimed that the $10k was a 10% down payment, making the loan $100k, but then later tells us that the loan was only $89,500, and when pushed, states that the loan was only $67k.
Holly claims that she had to make payment installments on the $400 difference she owed the trailer lender. And, a combination of a household emergency that the insurance company refused to repair and that payment caused her to foreclose a second time. According to her blog "just months after living the American Dream".
Contradiction Had Holly made a 10% down payment on a $67000 loan, she would have paid $6,700 leaving her with $7,300 to handle the emergency, preventing the foreclosure. Also, home buyers are required by Morgan Stanley to have proper house insurance and inspections prior to purchasing the home. Plumbing style emergencies that cost $7k aren't spur of the moment, or easily missed or overlooked by mortgage companies.
Holly claims that she managed to get the CEO of Morgan Stanley to reduce their interest rate of 18% to 4%.
Contradiction Morgan Stanley doesn't offer 4% rates at all, and doesn't offer the lowest prime rates to borrowers with a credit score less than 740. Considering she now had two foreclosures under her belt, I'm thinking it was not reduced to a non existent rate.
Holly claims that her monthly payments are only $289 per month.
contradiction $289 per month does not add up to any of the loan amounts Holly has claimed after compounded interest is figured in, not even the lowest of the amounts, $67k.
Holly claims to have used grants to save her house, and not asked for any help from anyone.
contradiction In her introductory post on BC, Holly begged members to write to Morgan Stanley on her behalf to help her save her house. Miraculously within the time span of starting that thread asking for help, explaining how she begged people not to buy her house, she managed to save her house and drop her payments down to $289 per month. Holly then claims that she never got any grant money, and threatened people on the steps of the courthouse. She also claims frustration that they could not get assistance from the government, no matter how hard they tried.
Summary:
There are a lot of claims, several different claims for loan amounts none that add up to the monthly payment claimed. There are claims of self sufficiency, and claims that she did ask for help. Claims of receiving grant monies, then retractions of those claims. In other words, nothing adds up - not even the loan payments.
Holly also seems to be confusing real barriers with imaginary barriers. Example:
Real barrier: Having your entire life savings disappear from your bank account, plus a negative dollar amount to the tune of thousands of dollars overnight, causing you to fall behind on all of your cost of living expenses for months upon months.
Imaginary barrier: Living in a trailer able to make the payments, while refusing to work part time, and attaining ownership of the trailer after just a few months, which you can then turn around and sell.
Real barrier: Having your landlord collect the rent twice as often behind your back, costing you thousands of dollars, then trying to evict you (and losing) then trying to threaten and physically intimidate you until you leave, out of anger that she lost the eviction, and lost out on double rent payments. Forcing you into a rental situations where all of the rents are too expensive to be able to pay first last and security, thus using a contact to get into a place that is still too expensive, but at least you didn't have to pay first last and security.
Imaginary barrier: Choosing not to pay your loan, choosing not get a job, and going into foreclosure. Then somehow "overcoming that adversity".
See the difference?-
Nothing more needs to be said.
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"Nothing more needs to be said."
Amen.
Anok, the truth is crystal clear to everyone here. Don't give Holly another minute of your life. -
But...I...must....can't...resist....
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Like I said earlier
IT IS HERE TO HELP REAL PEOPLE IN THE SAME SITUATION I FOUND MYSELF IN.
screwed over by big business and forced to argue with people who call her
IT,NEEDS GENITAL MUTILATION,LIAR,DILLUSIONAL,DILUTED,DUMB,STUPID,and NEEDS HER STATE BLOWN UP! I'm still here and so is my thread. It will be here as long as I keep recieving those e-mails.
HOLLA!-
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You weren't in a bad situation to begin with. You had a golden opportunity to set yourself up lovely, and chose not to take it.
And by the way - your blog doesn't tell anyone anything about what you supposedly did. It vaguely tells us what happened, but not in any detail. It does go into a great amount of detail about how wronged you were though. About what a victim you'd been. About the mean insurance companies and your children's health and how you begged people not to buy your home.
But as for what you actually did? It says nothing.
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ANOK
I didn't bother to read ur comment this time. Are you game or not?
Do you wanna call or not? Did you try the last # I gave u? Keep it up
your the scammer I am not. You are the hipocrit I am not.
LIKE I SAID EARLIER: YOU ARE JEALOUS because a barefoot pregnant, no degree
havin MISSISSIPPI house wife made the choice to do something about her situation instead of playing the victim card.
Where is your degree getting you now? Absoulutely nowhere! Although I don't think it has much to do with your degree. I think it is how you like to "think" you can tear someone down and GOD just gave u a reality check.-
You should read my comment. All I did was repeat what you've been saying throughout the thread.
Furthermore, why would i be jealous of a barefoot, pregnant, uneducated woman who can't feed her children and needs to make up stories so she doesn't feel poor?
I'm not ashamed that I'm poor. Then again, I work. I wait patiently for certain opportunities to present themselves while working on correcting the real barriers I have towards getting those opportunities.
I know that doing something the right way takes time, and patience.
I know that I am ethical, responsible, and dependable. I can hold my head up high. All the while knowing and understanding how hard it is to break through real challenges that people have everyday - so I can work on ways to change and improve society so others don't have to go through that pain.
You, on the other hand, are trying so hard to prove your worth that you've stooped to lies.
And I will be getting in touch with Morgan Stanley, on my own time. (Besides, it's Saturday night - the office is closed, or do you not know how the days of the week work too?)
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No anok. I'm sorry that you can't wrap your head around exactly what I did.
I stated exactly what I did. You are the one with the degree right? Are you really saying you can't figure it out? That is why I'm not stupid enough to go spend thousands of dollars on a piece of paper!-
You state on your blog that you :
"Wrote nine letters to all of his nine houses"
and,
"Got one hell of a deal"
What I want to know is:
How did you get the CEO's private addresses, all nine of them? How did you get approved for a loan in the first place? Why did they bother to give you back the house? Why did they lower a high risk borrower's interest rate? -
You also fail to mention your little trailer problem on your blog. Making you seem so innocent like you've never missed a payment or done anything wrong before.
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voodoo,thanks soo much for that little pic.
I just would never figure out how to turn off
the caps button without ya.-
We noticed.
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I said monday Anok!
so anyone else out there wanna do a conference call with HOLLYtheHousewife
Since Anok wants to do it on her own. She is gonna find out that she needs my account number ss# when she calls. She doesn't wanna find out anything.
She wants to continue her little college degree rant. Even though she is playing the victim card.
Does anyone else wanna do a conference call with HollytheHousewife from
MISSISSIPPI to prove that she is not a scammer,but someone who wants to rise above 3 or 4 people in BLOG CATALOG who gets off on tearing other people down. I AM HERE TO HELP PEOPLE IN THE SITUATION I FOUND MYSELF IN.
If you do wanna do a conference call with me and come back and report
to these few people that I am legit.
You can find my E-mail on my blog @
hollyb27.blogspot.com-
So when you've repeatedly asked me if I've tried the number you meant, did I try the number two days from now?
And I have no intention of asking about your account. That's not at all what I had in mind. *grin*
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Anok,
I'm with MadameX. We can all see the lack of character and ethics this person has displayed. We are all grieved that she is trying to instruct others to follow her crooked path in her blog where she selectively leaves out certain parts of her deceitfulness and contradictions. www.blogcatalog.com/discuss/entry/is-poverty-a-choice#comment_749548
Don't waste another minute of your life on this deceiver who pretends to be a victim. -
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Why do you have a link to peoplefinders? And why would you wonder if I have a degree? Is it the stellar math skills? My ability to read?
Spell?
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You were so quick to try the first number I gave you by mistake.
I thought there would have been a voicemail or something.-
I found the first number in a phone book, then confirmed that it was correct by a second listing.
I never had to pick up the phone.
The second number you gave me doesn't even come up as "unlisted". It simply states there is no listing.
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U asked how I got John J. Mack's adress. Duhh
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Ah, I see. I will make a mental note of that for later.
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TiimeTheif
I'm not the victim Anok is. Heloooo have u read anything?
I left out nothing. I told people how I saved my house!
Would u like for me to include in my blog. I contacted green tree mortgage
and told them my husband and I are expecting our first baby and we don't wanna live in the trailor park in this upside down loan anymore that my husband signed onto when he was 17 yrs. old (W/ a cosighner). We have decided to renig for the next 6 months,but we will pay u the difference of what u sell the piece of tin for. So my husband can go and get a cdl. instead of a resturant management position. So we could save enough money to put down on a house. You know a place with an actual foundation that couldn't be hitched and driven away.
Sure TT. I'll put in in first thing monday morning.-
You already had a down payment saved up, and could have easily earned, in that six months, the same amount of money you "saved", without ruining your credit.
And your husband could have still gotten his CDL, had you wisely invested some of what you saved to make the payments during the time he needed to be out of work. Then you could have sold the trailer, and banked over $30k for a down payment and emergency funds.
Furthermore, it strikes me as odd that your husband changed jobs less than six months prior to getting a substantial home loan. Lenders require a minimum of one - two years employment in one place and good credit for approval. (Longer employment periods for worse credit).
Yest another hole in your story.
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Why don't you try calling it? It isn't rocket science anok.
If there isn't a voicemail. I will be glad to do a conference call
monday morning.-
I will do what I intend to do exactly when I need to do it, thank you very much.
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Erm...I've backed up everything I had to say.
It's not my fault you can't understand basic math.
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Have any of you realizied that tony b (I think he is the inventor of bc)
has been here and my thread still isn't deleted.
hmmm wonder why?
You go little people with big brains (nottt)-
Yes, Tony is the owner.
He is probably monitoring it and deciding if it can stay, or if it needs to be locked or deleted.
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No Anok it isn't ur fault. Never said it was.
What is your fault is you like to call people scammers and liars. You have no proof to back that up. As a matter of fact I have given you every possible piece of proof I have that I am telling the GOD'S HONEST TRUTH.
like you said earlier I am the one without the college degree. I may have gotten some numbers confused,but I have given you all of the phone numbers
to back up the dumb housewife's story. -
hmmm so is he gonna delete it because a few people think they are so above
the rest of the human population with their little degrees and all.
I guess we will have to see.
TO BE CONTINUED. (everyone alert voodoo,tt,and madame I left my caps on)
nighty night. BLOG CATALOG
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