Discussions
Is the Devil real?
Posted by VikramMadan • 12/20/07 • Subscribe to this Discussion [RSS] • Report This Topic
Topics: christianity, devil, Islam, religion, Satan, vampires
Hi, my view is that the Devil is just an anthropomorphosis of emotional pain.
Anthropomorphosis is turning something impersonal into a person.
An·thro·po·mor·pho·sis:
(noun)
Transformation into the form of a human being.
vikram-madan.blogspot.com/2007/11/devil-satan-his-cronies-and-their-hell.ht...
User Comments
-
Yes of course he is real, why do you think Santa is an anagram for Satan?!
-
Wow, are you serious? -
Well it is, isn't it?
I mean move that N and *boom* there ya are. Santa ---> Satan.
He doesn't fool me one bit...
-
Actually Santa is for Saint back in the 17 century where a Saint by the name of Christopher went around the poor and gave out gifts. This is the closest the historians have come to it.
-
-
President Bush's High School Picture?-
No, his ears aren't THAT big
-
-
Catch me when I'm PMSing and you'll see the devil's real! -
Haha I bet you are more of a lesser-demon compared to Moi!
-
-
Yes, she IS. -
doesn't she wear Prada?-
I thought a blue dress? -
no very dark dark gray
-
-
watch out it'll get you
-
If you bothering me again and again, i'll show u...
huehehehehe.... -
no i'm not,
it makes me feell like i'm an epileptic waiting to happen -
Okay... disregarding zawadi's somewhat tasteless joke...
Yes, the devil is real.
So are demons.
They're angels that rebelled against God and were booted out of Heaven. They're current main residence is Hell, which exists outside of space and time, like Heaven.
The devil is also referred to as Lucifer, though if that's his original name is uncertain.
Those who are possessed by demons are rarely possessed by just one. They sometimes refer to themselves as 'Legion.'
Demons are non-corporeal, so they don't have a fixed appearance. Usually they can't be seen, though they can make themselves visible in a variety of ways. They may appear as good angels to trick people. They may appear as normal people. Or they can appear as a variety of frightening monsters or shapes.
You can believe me or not. This is what I believe as a Catholic.-
lucifer is diffeent to the fictious deveil
not big on either -
Don't be troubled about it not being Christian friendly. I tell you truly, those who mock those who are good will suffer for it. What they do with their own lives is one matter, but what they do with the lives of others they cannot escape.
-
Lucifer is actually a really telling name, isn't it. It means 'morning star' in Hebrew. He wants to be THE Morning Star but please. Like he could be. Loser!
He also goes by Appolyon, Abbadon, the serpent, the Great Dragon, etc.
Many names, same a$$hole... -
-
to brigid
that's pretty nice if you concidering this story as fiction but if you are actually believe in those story as a fact this is the problems. dogmatic belief is the root of most evil behaviour on earth -
Thanks, .ink. ^_^
I thought Lucifer was Hebrew for luminous one. I could be wrong, of course. And different translators have different ways of interpreting meaning. -
Lucifer isn't Hebrew at all... it's Latin. It means "light bringer". I believe the "morning star" attribution is just because Venus was called that. -
according to the online Etymology Dictionary Lucifer translated the morning star. (Latin Translation) American Heritage Dictionary does use the word Morning star as a translation for Lucifer when used as a to describe Venus.
It originated with Hebrew but the Latin is used more often. Lucifer is the Latin translated name of Satan translated from Hebrew: Helel ben Shahar and/or greek: Phosphoros.
My reference is Dictionary.com
-
-
Being Hindu, no, I don't believe in the classical 'devil'.
-
Devil real? Santa is Satan? Hmmm... Fits right in there with my blog post
"The Seven Deadly Sins of Christmas"
Religion - the source of true evil.
Sara
www.saraeast.com-
Another atheist attacking western philosophy and labeling it as all-encompassing "religion" *yawn* ... wake me when something new arrives.
-
I'm starting to think this thread isn't really Christian friendly.
-
i'm very Christian friendly, i wrote the most beautiful Jesus song you'll ever hear but I'm Buddha friendly too, because Buddha tells people to be compassionate, and I'm Rama friendly because he told people to be virtuos
the idea of satan is the most hilarious bit of misinformation i've ever heard, it's extremely funny
and they ought to be nice to santa or else he won't turn up
-
-
No, Satan isn't real. It's a literary symbol representing self, just like God is a symbol of the laws of nature, and not a real entity. -
Bruce Banner is to the Hulk
as
God is to the Devil -
satan is my friend:-)
-
You think so, but would he bail you out of jail??
I'm just sayin'...
-
-
The devil is real and he's not an encounter as much as he is an influence on us. He doesn't compel, he schmoozes us into doing wrong, or worse evil things. We can reflect him, and appear that it is only us, not him.
-
you seem like such a nice person, but you can still have a relationship with God without all that devil nonsense, it's so fear based. Fear God, fear the devil, live in fear, you'll scare the living daylights out of yourself if you're not careful.
-
Fear the Lord: Do what He says, don't bad mouth Him, He's large and in charge.
Don't fear the Devil: He'd just love for you to be scared witless of him. One of the first things you learn about blessing an area that might have a problem with demons is not to be scared. They'll latch onto that fear and tear you to shreds (metaphorically speaking).
Of course, trying to perform an exorcism on your own is a really stupid idea. We have priests for that. -
The devil is real? Awesome, then let me ask you a question. What do you call the mind that creates or invented an aeroplane for transportation and then the one that later turns it into a weapon of war or rather what do you call yourself when you are thinking negative thoughts, condemning your neighbor? We all have so many believes and one of the most outrageous believe, is the ludicrous believe in the devil. -
Free will.
There's a big difference.
Just because the devil is real doesn't mean he's behind every bad thing that ever happened.
-
-
Isn't it funny that the Devil showed up in the bible the same time as Jesus? Well, a little later, but not much. Remember that it was a 'serpent' that corrupted poor Eve, not the Devil. Hell is only as old as Christianity as well.-
Um, did you read Job?
-
Hell is much older and the notion of judgment shared by nearly all cultures :-) And Heinlein was a provocatively fine writer, tho a wee bit conflicted at times. But not all great minds can deal with paradox, and struggle instead with contradictions. The revelation of not readily seen reality is no more unusual than the revelation of a shared reality that seems to be perceived but continually surprises. And interestingly, the phenomenal world can be described in simple equations, albeit, there are other equations more complex and interesting, that address cause and effect, but humans, in other words, some proportion of their population, or described by probability, in any event, of all the animals in the kingdom of life behave as tho they were exempt from them. Even in the consequences of their acts. Just sundry thoughts.
-
OUCH! That hurt my brain. I wasn't being *that* deep but hey, why not lol.
You must wear enormous hats.... -
no, i wear a thimble :-) wrote it to descartes. :-)
-
Job, and other places. Ah, how I wish I had a searchable Bible. It would be so much easier to find references for posts like this. But the Old Testament refers to 'hell' (which is actually of Germanic origin, meaning 'hall') as Sheol.
Let's see. Deuteronomy 32:22:
"For a fire is kindled by my anger, and it burns to the depths of Sheol, devours the earth and its increase and sets on fire the foundations of the mountains."
God was rather ticked that day, it seems.
Though Sheol generally seems to be a generic land of the dead, though a potentially very unpleasant one. I'm not philosopher or doctor of the Church, but I think at least part of Sheol might be the 'Limbo' some people talk about where people who were good stayed until the Gates of Heaven opened after Jesus sacrificed Himself.
Just a thought, though.
-
-
Yes, that Robert A Heinlein is some great writer.
-
He sure was. Pretty much everything after his stroke was annoying, though.
-
-
It's said they call it PMS because Mad Cow Disease is already taken. How does this fit into demons and devils? -
as an agnostic satanic law are look cool to me:)
tell me what's evil about it?
The Eleven Satanic Rules of the Earth
1. Do not give opinions or advice unless you are asked.
2. Do not tell your troubles to others unless you are sure they want to hear them.
3. When in another’s lair, show him respect or else do not go there.
4. If a guest in your lair annoys you, treat him cruelly and without mercy.
5. Do not make sexual advances unless you are given the mating signal.
6. Do not take that which does not belong to you unless it is a burden to the other person and he cries out to be relieved.
7. Acknowledge the power of magic if you have employed it successfully to obtain your desires. If you deny the power of magic after having called upon it with success, you will lose all you have obtained.
8. Do not complain about anything to which you need not subject yourself.
9. Do not harm little children.
10. Do not kill non-human animals unless you are attacked or for your food.
11. When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask him to stop. If he does not stop, destroy him.
The Nine Satanic Statements
I
Satan represents indulgence, instead of abstinence!
II
Satan represents vital existence, instead of spiritual pipe dreams!
III
Satan represents undefiled wisdom, instead of hypocritical self-deceit!
IV
Satan represents kindness to those who deserve it, instead of love wasted on ingrates!
V
Satan represents vengeance, instead of turning the other cheek!
VI
Satan represents responsibility to the responsible, instead of concern for psychic vampires!
VII
Satan represents man as just another animal, sometimes better, more often worse than those that walk on all fours, who, because of his "divine spiritual and intellectual development, has become the most vicious animal of all!
VIII
Satan represents all of the so-called sins, as they all lead to physical, mental, or emotional gratification!
IX
Satan is the best friend the church has ever had, as he has kept it in business all these years!-
What constitutes a "mating signal"? -
you make me laugh a lot
thanks
may you have a wonderful Christmas
what's your favorite Christmas song
Mine's 'God Rest Ye' ... in E flat minor is gorgeous, descend the bass part chromatically thru the minor chords
and I changed the verse from Satan to darkest, it sat better against the melody...try it, it's more musical
-
-
If only it were this simple
-
I DON'T believe in a horned red guy with a goatee who presides over a celestial dustbin for undesirable souls if that's what you're asking. But I DO believe that there is a force of good and a force of evil. And the human brain's software is rigged to personify that which it can't understand.
-
great response Merlyn
who i am as human being is god exist? no one on earth have the response my personal belief is that their is no prophets and never a human had any contact with a so call god moise, jesus, mahomet, are all very normal but opportunistic human being the torah, the bible or koran are only good story book that's all.
-
-
Lucifer son of the mourning, I'm gonna chase you out of earth!
I'm gonna put on a iron shirt, and chase satan out of earth
I'm gonna put on a iron shirt, and chase the devil out of earth
I'm gonna send him to outa space, to find another race
I'm gonna send him to outa space, to find another race
Satan is an evilous man,
But him can't chocks it on I-man
So when I check him my lassing hand
And if him slip, I gaan with him hand
I'm gonna put on a iron shirt, and chase satan out of earth
I'm gonna put on a iron shirt, and chase the devil out of earth
I'm gonna send him to outa space, to find another race
I'm gonna send him to outa space, to find another race
Him haffi drop him fork and run
Him can't stand up to Jah Jah son
Him haffi lef' ya with him gun
Dig off with him bomb
I'm gonna put on a iron shirt, and chase satan out of earth
I'm gonna put on a iron shirt, and chase the devil out of earth
I'm gonna send him to outa space, to find another race
I'm gonna send him to outa space, to find another race
Satan is a evilous man,
But him can't chocks it on I-man
So when I check him my lassing hand
And if him slip, I gaan with him hand
I'm gonna put on a iron shirt, and chase satan out of earth
I'm gonna put on a iron shirt, and chase the devil out of earth
I'm gonna send him to outa space, to find another race
I'm gonna send him to outa space, to find another race
Move ya with your gun
Mi sey fe lef' ya with your bomb
Move ya with your gun
Mi sey fe lef' ya with your bomb...-
i'm hearing lots of loud guitars in there somewhere, and a very mad drummer
-
AND...the Devil went down to Georgia.
-
Yes, but the Devil did NOT go to Georgia while wearing a blue dress. That would have been suicide. Well, except for parts of Atlanta, maybe.
-
-
"brigid
Okay... disregarding zawadi's somewhat tasteless joke...
Yes, the devil is real."
lmao
i'm tastless? ypu should read about your Catholic City of the Vatican.... -
"brigid
Okay... disregarding zawadi's somewhat tasteless joke...
Yes, the devil is real."
lmao
i'm tastless? you should read about your Catholic City of the Vatican.... -
whoops that must have been my alter ego or ID.. maybe a demon?
-
"brigid
I'm starting to think this thread isn't really Christian friendly."
I think the majority are spiritual, maybe not Catholic.
I'm a Christian, but so not beleive in celebrating like a Catholic, because it is from Pagan Beliefs
I do believe in Satan and I do not believe Catholics and Satan are seperate.. they give him life and more power-
Zawadi! You are brutally honest...I like that!
The new pope *is* especially creepy, to be honest...he could be the antichrist. Him or Putin, I'm keeping my eye on him, too. -
gee there's much better options than that
-
...
The Catholic Church has specific prayers and rituals for getting rid of demons.
(And if this has anything to do with that so-called idolatry the Catholic Church practices: *we don't!* The statues are there as a reminder of what we're supposed to be focusing on. It's a lot better than having a blank wall so the mind has space to wander. As for praying to the saints, if you actually look at the wording you'll note that we're asking the saints to intercede on our behalf to God. Since they're already in Heaven they seem more likely to lend a hand then somebody here on Earth.)
-
-
I believe spirits are real; God, angels, demons, etc so yes Satan is real.-
Thank you!
-
-
Hi everyone, I started this thread.
This thread has become interesting...and I'd like to voice my views again. My view is that the Devil and his jingbang are nothing more than an anthropomorphism of emotional pain.
Emotional pain travels from generation to generation. It is something impersonal, i.e. not a person. But humans tend to give emotional pain human like forms.
I'll reword myself:
The 'Devil' is nothing more than emotional pain itself that has been anthropormorphosised. Same goes for demons etc.
The 'devil'---Anthropomorphism of "fear, anger, greed, pain, disease, decay, suffering etc'.
All these terms can be summed up as 'emotional pain'.
Emotional pain travels from generation to generation because people cling to the past and do not forgive.
Wars go on between countries for generations and generations. This is what I mean when I say 'emotional pain travels from generation to generation'.
This madness that has been travelling for thousands of years is not a person. It is just emotional pain.-
The 'devil' can be these things . but it is a 'devil' in us (something about the person as you show in your post) that touches many people .. it is the 'devil' in our acts.
On the other hand, when a devil discloses himself to a person, there can be no doubt there is a devil. Anyone can disagree, or mock the statement, but it is entirely irrelevant to the empirical. In absence of the experience, there is a 'belief' there is no devil. In the presence of experience, there is.
From the principle of doubt, arguments, epithets, and labels can be applied to one who says there is a devil.
The best that can be hoped for is that doubters meet the devil one day. Because experience is greater than opinion :-)
-
-
Wanted to add: Greed is also emotional pain. The person wants more and more and more. Bottomless pit. Nothing satisfies. The person just wants to collect and collect and collect, chasing things that he or she does not really need, just collecting and collecting because of psychological discomfort...i.e. emotional pain.
'You just keep on runnin'...you just keep on runnin' like the Eagles sing, in their song 'Learn to be Still'.
'Control freakism' is also due to emotional pain. Anything that leads to anti-life activity is because of emotional pain.
Once again....these are just MY VIEWS, that is all.-
pain is only a part of life and it help you growth as a human being
-
Wonderfully put VikramMadan!
-
-
Is the Devil real...
Since I joined in on this thread, my blog rank went up to 66.6 ~ coincidence?! I think not!!
Seriously. It is 66.6 hahaha...-
Oh no! offendedblogger's the Debil.... the DEBIL!
-
Yes, it's true...now send me a dollar. All of you!!
-
I would, but I'm an atheist, so you've just ceased to exist.
-
HEY WAIT A MINUTE NOW...can you do that?? lol
And I just realized that FOOZBALL is the DEBIL! *duh*!! -
lol! Well, "The Water Boy" is as good a reference as any, I suppose.
-
-
yes, he is my next door neighbor -
OMG, offendedblogger's blog rank is indeed 66.6! lol. So if not the devil, we indeed have the 'devil woman' in our midst, like Cliff Richards would say!
-
Or at least 1/10th of the Devil. It's possible there could be 90% Evil still outstanding. Quick, get me an accountant and a priest!
-
-
The devil is real.
Tequila is the devil! -
Contemplating about 'devil and hell' you might consider this:
teachers.sduhsd.k12.ca.us/gstimson/ishell.htm -
Isn't Kaiser Soze the devil?-
The Usual Suspects was a better movie than box office receipts suggest.
The movie was an excellent characterization of Evil. It shows Evil is dispassionate and nonchalant in the fatal effects it has on anyone in the pursuit of its goal - which is to smile with satisfaction in the end.
In fact the movie portrayed four (arguably more) threads for Evil that spin into one. Evil plays a game. Evil beguiles or entices. Evil tricks. Evil manufactures lies from facts.
So was Kaiser Soze the devil? As far as the movie goes, yes.
-
-
The best trick the devil ever did was convence it that he never existed. But he exist more and more everyday but some do not see it until its too late for them.
Lucifer was the most beautiful angel God ever created but he thought he was better then God and was sent down below and chained their until judgment day in which he will be released.
I side with you Brigid, but there are many non-believers and atheist all around us too. Only at the last minute when they really need him will they then pray which is a sad thing.-
"Only at the last minute when they really need him will they then pray which is a sad thing."
Lies, lies and more lies.
I hope you will stop your sad preaching on this blogging forum. -
Firstly, according to the Bible angels (and arch angels) were created WITHOUT FREE WILL. This begs the question how did Lucifer decide (something that requires free will and free thought, which he did not have) that he is going to rebel? Paradox!
Secondly, the story of the fall of Lucifer is contained in what Christians call the Canonical books. The Catholic Church does acknowledge some of these, and do contain them in their Bible, the Protestant Church does not. However, the Protestant Church does spoin the tale of how Lucifer was cast down from heaven when someone asks where Satan originated. So this is a case of selectively choosing which Canonical works are convenient and which not, while still officially maintaining that the Canonical works are not part of the official Bible. Paradox!
I still maintain that you can believe what you want, but so can I and Jungl. My personal belief is that the devil is as real as Jesus.
-
-
The Devil is as real as the Easter Bunny, God, Santa Claus, Jesus Christ and Robin Hood. They are ALL fictional.
Kathryn-
UNFETTERED, my friend, I perfectly agree with you, except I must make some important corrections. The example of the apple is not an opinion, it is an experience. Tho it is routine to express opinions without experience, experience best supersedes opinion. Choice has the same idea in its etymology, but that is based on the nature of the human to chose what has suited its experience before.
This can be terribly complicated, starting from a remark about the devil, then religion, then experience, then logic, and eventually etymology. I omitted psychology, quite sorry on that account.
And as for your remark regarding Kant, I thought SUPERB! Taste is individual... now tie that into experience, and you will see that your opinion regarding another's experience is like holding water in a sieve. Its a waste of time and a useless action.
Better to respect the experiences of others. If I came to see you in the hospital after a bad auto wreck, I wouldn't tell you can't possibly know you are in pain after you've told me.
:-)
I have guests, and must go. Will check back. Cheerio!
P.S. Remember, think and thank are etymologically related. To think, and give thanks .... :-) -
Excellent! Now you're on the right track (to borrow the tone of another who is far wiser than I). So giving your opinion on the near death experiences of others is a huge waste of time.
-
-
hey jungl as long as people relate to religious things as the devil to is in I will keep it up. So get use to it.
We will see who is lieing in the end-
Do you go around and ask dieing atheists if they have started to believe in god?
-
@ jungl, the discussion is about the devil, not religion :-) The question is 'Is there a Devil?'. Religion or religious requirement to address the question is not required, no need to register beliefs whatever they may be, to comment.
And (to put pepper in the stew) there have been some cases where Atheists (let alone some religious) got a good taste of a place called Hell - the 'proverbial' residence of the devil :-)
And if you suspect that these near death experiences are socially viral, and due to the machinations of the mind in a Christian culture, it would be impolite to ignore that these same phenomena occurred to non-Christian cultures.
Can you believe I wrote this? I am a die-hard, obdurate, intractable, Rationalist; and I meant every word I wrote :-)
Just a modest comment :-) -
alias: So, if someone hears voices, are those voices "real"?
-
@ Unfettered, I was referencing NDEs. As for hearing voices, if a person hears voices of course there 'real,' otherwise how did they hear them :-)
(I edited the balance of the first sentence because I written two answers for you.. the first was clever and witty, but not in keeping with proper decorum :-) -
Yes, you were referencing some NDEs. You seemed to be claiming that someone on his/her deathbead who experienced "hell" can't be questioned. However, it's odd that some people can hear things others can't. Some people see things other's don't. The mind is a powerful thing. I once dreamed I was a fish. That doesn't mean I was one.
-
@ Unfettered, Marvelous! You have the beginnings of being an excellent clinical psychologist. And they made some serious money. Personally I like the Behavioral and cognitive side better. I think its much more satisfying professionally in profiling people than to hear their complaints, wouldn't you agree? Did you know you can identify a person's type in 5 seconds and be 90% accurate in describing them . and you had just met them for the first time. Amazing :-)
As far as questioning anyone who was clinically dead (not on their deathbed, an important distinction) if they agree, why not? I think it's a wonderful thing to do. Doctors, researchers have, and there is a unique case where one doctor, an avowed atheit, was so .. whatever, regarding NDE childrens' descriptions, that he became religious! He became a CHRISTIAN. Imagine this.
And, lastly, in the phenomenal world of human consciousness, it is truly amazing that some see or hear things that others don't. Did you know this phenomenon is even true in some marriages. :-)
(pls excuse the delay to reply - the place suddenly was overrun by university students! .-) -
Oh, well. If one atheist converted, then there's proof positive! I stand completely corrected.
-
UNFETTERED .. you know its a logical fallacy to generalize a particular. Don't victimize your thought.
Think of these things this way. It's experiential. If I tell you I ate a delicious apple, would you look for proof?
I dare say, this would be ridiculous. On the other hand you wouldn't offend me to ask, and you wouldn't offend me if you didn't believe me.
Suggested Reading: Immanuel Kant's Critique of Taste. A most excellent work. -
Hey. you were the one who offered up the example. You seemed to think the example should have merit. It doesn't for the precise reasons you stated.
If I were you were to take a bite out of an apple and say it was delicious, I certainly couldn't question your opinion. If you passed me the apple and I took a bite, then found it tasted like dirt, you couldn't question mine either.
That doesn't make either opinion "true" in the strictest sense.
As for Kant. Meh. I've read enough of him to last a lifetime.
-
-
No i don't jungl whats your point? What are you getting all worked up about anyways. The question was asked about the devil and I answered it in my opinion. So whats the big deal? I am not trying to convert you or anyone else.So leave it at that already.
-
The thing is that you stated in several threads that non-believers turn to god in the end.
I'm just curious how you know this.
-
-
There is a saying that goes "There are no atheist in foxholes" They use this term in the military and yes I am a Marine we use to use it when I was in. I thank god have never seen combat but the point is that it is said in the corp. I have seen people like you go around trying to break down religion and I know your atheist and thats your believe, I am not trying to change it. I give my opinions just like anyone else. As far as seeing it in many other threads then thats a good thing for me then, it tells me people are reading it and I am doing my job in spreading the word.
So yeah when you are in combat and you know you may not survive and your down there with your buddy trying to avoid the gun fire trying to come out alive to see your family again, you will start praying and yeah it happens.-
Way to go!
When I went to college I heard it as "There are no atheists during finals week." Having just barely survived some of those, I believe it. @.@
-
-
666 is a cool number:)
-
So are all the others : )
However, there's no accounting for individual taste. Personally, I like pi. I haven't eaten a good french apple pi in .. I think nearly 10 years .-)
-
-
is this still going
I thought we buried the mythical devil days ago
the only thing to scared of is fear itself-
My new years resolution is to stay away from all the religious and political threads and concentrate on blogging.
It's very hard to not click when they keep popping up time and again. This site is turning into a chat room and not a discussion forum about blogging. -
I thought that's what the "General Discussion" category was for. Are we really only supposed to be discussing blog related things? I'm not trying to provoke with that question. I didn't read anything in the TOS about keeping all discussions blog related. If I missed it, I'd hate to think I was engaging in conversation that wasn't supposed to be here.
-
Step away from the religious threads
Hey this is almost like a chat argghh now I have irritated the jungl lol
I agree with you by the way. -
Don't think there any rules, but at other sites people usually discuss topics that relates to the site.
On a photography site you discuss photography, on a music site you discuss music and on a blogging site you discuss blogging. -
Fair enough. Personally, while some of the subjects can be annoying or interesting, I often get ideas for future blog posts from the things I read or discuss here, if that helps at all.
-
-
Vikram, you're not allowed to ask questions ever again :-)
-
Whether you call it the Devil, Beelsubub, Lucifer, or Satan it is as real and as close as Little Dick Cheney -
Put this in the wrong spot. Haste makes waste they say. Deepest apologies....
@UNFETTERED, my friend, I perfectly agree with you, except I must make some important corrections. The example of the apple is not an opinion, it is an experience. Tho it is routine to express opinions without experience, experience best supersedes opinion. Choice has the same idea in its etymology, but that is based on the nature of the human to chose what has suited its experience before.
This can be terribly complicated, starting from a remark about the devil, then religion, then experience, then logic, and eventually etymology. I omitted psychology, quite sorry on that account.
And as for your remark regarding Kant, I thought SUPERB! Taste is individual... now tie that into experience, and you will see that your opinion regarding another's experience is like holding water in a sieve. Its a waste of time and a useless action.
Better to respect the experiences of others. If I came to see you in the hospital after a bad auto wreck, I wouldn't tell you can't possibly know you are in pain after you've told me.
:-)
I have guests, and must go. Will check back. Cheerio!
P.S. Remember, think and thank are etymologically related. To think, and give thanks .... :-)-
@ UNFETTERED, et al, stopped back by to clarify a couple of my comments above that were addressing NDEs and that some NDEs had been shown Hell.
@ UNFETTERED, the reason why I wrote only 'some' were shown Hell, from the research, in any event, is because the research says others were shown Heaven.
some comments posted above remarked about the discussion of the religious in posts. actually the very nature of the theme discussion would evaporate if a forum participant was proscribed from using his or her religious proclivities or beliefs in response ... otherwise, VikramMadan should start a yes or no poll.
as a curiosity there seems to be no discomfort for others to put into type there .. let us say, discomfort about or dislike for religion. and I thought to myself, if i went into a room of people talking on a theme i didn't like, i would leave to find a room with a more comfortable subject. it is preeminently sensible. Yet, if i understand the matter, there was or they made complaints, yet stayed.
it brings to mind writings of Swedenborg who describes Hell and Heaven grouped by people of similar .. lets say, temperament. His object was to inform people, I can only imagine, that how, what, who a person is, is the type of company that person will be with .. excuse the word, but no substitute comes to mind at the moment, the Hereafter.
of course, he was entitled to his opinion, based on experience, as it is told. -
alias: What research is this? I see you use words like "research" often, but never see you actually show any. I wonder, independent of the loaded language inherent in "were shown", rather than simply "saw", what number of people in this research "were shown" nothing. And if it turned out to be a statistical majority, would you use your same line of reasoning to conclude the devil didn't exist at all.
As for the rest of your response, everyone is entitled to an opinion, included the opinion that religion is wrong and distasteful. -
UNFETTERED, respectfully, i am at a lost to find a problem. as for research, it exists, and with any of the search engines you can discover a brand new world of fascinating knowledge. truly! here's an example you can use to propel you ... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NDE .
in fact, aside from research, there have been splendid articles from time to time on or related to the subject. by the way, you don't live in china do you? i think they have all these types of sites blocked.
as for wording, i have always considered it a hallmark of human communication to craft a phrase, sentence, or paragraph to fit the intent and my poorly developed aesthetic. but the key word is intent. to write for any audience of one or many is a challenge but certainly an appreciated one. but if you want to alter a word in my communications, it's fine as long as you don't alter the meaning.
that reality becomes a semantic reality, or better semantics usurps reality (if you've studied communications, etc, i know you'll understand) has always been a curiosity to me. words point to something, they are not that something.
as for your point on logic, i will refrain from explanation. my impulse is to use symbolic logic for the benefit of illumination, but this is not the appropriate medium to do so.
with heartfelt sincerity, i believe if you review our corresponding comments, you'll discover well intended meaning that is lost between posts. its normal. it happens to me, too, from time to time. I have followed your's and you appear to be through your texts a genuinely good man, and thoughtful.
and so, we come to opinion. most remarks by humans are called opinion, but in truth are speculations. opinions have a referent, a priori, a posteriori, experiential, empirical, etc. opinion tries to join things together, take a good guess at what else is going on, etc. Judgment is another matter.
it appears to me that opinion wasn't occurring, on the contrary, it smacked of judgement. and you know, our judgments say more about ourselves than they do about the object of our judgments. -
Judgment? Like a warning to those who "mock others", or a hope that those who disbelieve in the devil will meet him someday? Judgment indeed.
thanks for the link. Of course, I'm completely unable to read and have never used a search engine. There is no study that shows empirical evidence of the devil. Period. I've read about NDE before, thanks.
I'd like to return your compliment about my nature, but I can't. In the future, I'll just avoid you altogether. -
UNFETTERED, there might have been a lack of understanding about judgment. It is a phrase used in university psychology and communication studies. it in itself is a neutral term. the saying was revealing human nature and social personality. per your interest,no further comments will illuminate :-)
thank you for your integrity. everything is truly and sincerely perfect. franklin said, love thine enemies for they tell you the truth .-)
and by the way, experience is empirical :-)
have a wonderful new year, unfettered.
-
-
yes he's real, but not what people think. he's not some red man waiting for you with a pitch fork. devil means = liar . satan means manslayer. he was once an angel, but because he desired something that wasn't his, ALL AUTHORITY, he became the father of the lie when he deceived Eve and thus created himself. he was not created bad, his actions made him what he is-
Very true. I can't believe I missed this post. Well, yes I can given how many posts there are in this thread.
Not really sure that the serpent in the creation story is the devil, though. As far as the story itself goes the serpent was just a regular animal.
What's interesting is that there is some evidence that snakes did have legs at one point. Hm.
-
-
The devil is on everyone, it's what make us fear, weak, heartless, jealous. Don't be afraid and you will be an angel -
the Devil Rides a Harley
-
That's the Ghost Rider..
-
My ex got a Harley?
-
-
Kiwipulse, was that a Movie recent? I head of that before.
-
Yeah, it's a 2007 movie with Nicolas Cage
imdb.com/title/tt0259324/
-
-
ok thanks... I rarely watch anything on T.V or movies in general.
ty for the link.. maybe i can see a Downloaded copy online -
Downloading is stealing. The devil would be proud.
-
-
-
@ UNFETTERED,
regarding the discussion about NDE research (studies), five minutes ago I was on a news site, and low and behold, there's a news article about IAND (www.iands.org). This is one resource for NDE material.
Interestingly, the president of the organization states that 17-18% of NDEs have the Hell-ish type :-) -
flamingpoodle
Downloading is stealing. The devil would be proud.
yea well let him be Proud, but I don't DL movies i buy the DVD, but will watch movies posted online like google and youtube, which i have seen some films posted there already
The Devil is in your server also lol
murder and mayhem ummm he would love your blog lol-
She writes my blog.
-
-
Where I come from, there's no devil per se, but the trickster god and the half living goddess of death. Otherwise, all is copacetic. -
Is the devil male or female?-
maybe shemale. Ugh
-
-
The devil is real and made me reply to this thread again. Help me!
-
There's no anthrophormostuff, but it's in the details.
-
Satan, God, politic... are the same thing : ideas :o)
-
Quite a discussion seeing as it started with someone showing off the word of the day; anthropomorphosis.
I think we need a new word of the day by now, but I enjoyed reading the discussion between Unfettered & aliasinkhorn or between the rational intellectual and the arm chair psych who tries so hard to sound literate.
As for my own opinion, I'm leaning more toward a devil like something in a jungian archetype kind of way. You can find devil like thingies in nearly all religions/cultures.
But hey, what do I know.
Thanks for a fun read. -
the Devil is real, he was in UN, and when he came, it smelled sulphur. -
footiam wrote:
Is the devil male or female?
...well...I'd say if the devil was real, it would surely be a woman!
Ask cliff richards 'Devil Woman', ask Santana 'Evil Ways'...ask The Eagles 'Witchy Woman'...they all talk about how women make men dance around! -
Actually, being non corporeal, the devil is neither. It is, however, common practice among Christians to refer to the devil, and all other non corporeal entities as 'he'. It's just a matter of convienience. (The word 'man' actually started out as a generic word for 'human being' or 'person'. It wasn't until recently that it became limited to the male half of the species.)
-
-
The only place you will find Satan is within yourself. It is yourself that talks yourself into doing what you think is bad or evil. God does not look at evil. God does not punish you when you are bad nor does he bless you when you are good. God can only love you and bring you closer to him. You can do nothing of yourself. God will have all men saved.-
...
When was the last time you read the Bible?
Ezra 9:13 "And after all that is come upon us for our evil deeds, and for our great trespass, seeing that thou our God hast punished us less than our iniquities deserve, and hast given us such deliverance as this;"
Proverbs 16:5 "Every one that is proud in heart is an abomination to the LORD: though hand join in hand, he shall not be unpunished."
Proverbs 17:5 "Whoso mocketh the poor reproacheth his Maker: and he that is glad at calamities shall not be unpunished."
Isaiah 13:11 "And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible."
Jeremiah 46:28 "Fear thou not, O Jacob my servant, saith the LORD: for I am with thee; for I will make a full end of all the nations whither I have driven thee: but I will not make a full end of thee, but correct thee in measure; yet will I not leave thee wholly unpunished."
Amos 2:1 "Thus saith the LORD; For three transgressions of Moab, and for four, I will not turn away the punishment thereof; because he burned the bones of the king of Edom into lime."
II Peter 2:9 "The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished."
Luke 10:14 "But it shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the judgement, than for you."
II Corinthians 5:10 "For we must all be manifested before the judgement seat of Christ, that every one may receive the proper things of the body, according as he hath done, whether it be good or evil."
Romans 3:7-9 "For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie, unto his glory, why am I also yet judged as a sinner? And not rather (as we are slandered, and as some affirm that we say) let us do evil, that there may come good? whose damnation is just. What then? Do we excel them? No, not so. For we have charged both Jews, and Greeks, that they are all under sin."
Just sayin'. -
For even more entertaining bible verses check russellsteapot.com/know-your-bible/
-
-
The angels and demons are man conceived ideas as I believed. -
Try spamming in blogcatalog, you will come to know whether the devil is real or not! -
I thought the devil was Nero.-
As in the Roman emperor? Hardly. Granted, he acted like he was possessed at times (if you can believe the stories), but he was completely human.
-
i can't really get my head around the fact that intelligent people would believe in the devil
-
-
-
-
-
© Photographer:LuMaxArt2D
www.dreamstime.com/-rimage1846083-resi68663
The Good The Bad And The Elderly -
umm...i'm not sure that i get it
-
Fantastic Art, LumaxArt!!
-
Thanks!
-
-
Acousticguitarist, in some people...the MIND when in the grip of severe emotional trauma, SOMETIMES anthropomorphosises emotional pain and (moving) images (of vampires, ugly monsters etc.) are seen...sometimes in the mental spectrum, and sometimes these bizarre images are projected into the surroundings. These are just images of course, but seem to be real entities to the one who's mind is projecting.
-
Hi Brigid, interesting information there. Thanks.
-
yes,Divorced her 7 years ago -
So this stimulating topic about the devil is still going on here. Is the devil not getting popular than God, you guy's are really giving this fable life.
-
I think "God" falls into anthropomorphism with the devil. -
devil imagery are way cooler then any god imagery:-)
-
But how cool would it be without any contrasting imagery to distinguish its uniqueness?
-
Agree, morgantj, god falls into anthropormorphism with the devil....
My thoughts on your question about 'contrasting imagery to distinguish its [god's] uniqueness'
(i assume you meant 'god' or goodness when you wrote this)
Some spiritual teachers talk of 'the good that has no opposite'.....a hint that life has no REAL opposites (i.e. all anti-life stuff like violence is imaginary, in the ultimate sense. From the ultimate point of view.) -
satan is the best friends of the churches he keep them in buisiness for all these years!
-
-
Actually, I was addressing that devil imagery wouldn't be so devilish if everything was considered as devil imagery. It would just be "common."
If good has no opposite, then under what criteria can one say something is "good"? Everything would be equal and common. And I think this happens to be the reality of it all.
If we just look at things for what they are or how they are without our discriminations of these things, without our opinions of them, and cease to place value on them, then perhaps we can see that the snowflake falls perfectly in place, or simply just falls in place, neither perfectly nor imperfectly. -
No not real - but many years ago "we" needed to have a reason to "label" things - and through the centuries people distorted actual stories that resulted in people assuming that metaphors became reality. I think satan comes from astrological themes - the day versus the night - etc.-
what! yet another morgan!
-
-
Oh I definitely believe in Ann Coulter. I saw her on the news the other day. Definitely real!-
LOL. Some people also think Oprah is the devil.
-
-
Here is a link to astrological history of lucifer en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucifer Brian Morgan
© Photographer:LuMaxArt2D
© Photographer:LuMaxArt2D
© Photographer:LuMaxArt2DAdd Your Comment
Login to leave a message.
