Discussions
Sacrifice to protect the environment
Posted by timethief • 5/04/09 • Subscribe to this Discussion [RSS] • Report This Topic
Topics: dishwashing detergents. phosphates, environment, rampant consumersim, water pollution
- " I recently read an article about a woman in Spokane, Washington, who doesn’t like phosphate-free dishwashing detergents. Phosphate-containing detergents are banned in Spokane County because of their negative impact on the environment, so the woman drives 45 minutes to Idaho where phosphate detergents are still sold. The article also notes that the woman has a five-year-old daughter. I’m astounded.
People often argue that protecting the environment will require too many sacrifices. Is this what they mean? That they would risk their children’s futures because they can’t be bothered to rinse their dishes before putting them into the dishwasher?
Phosphates are added to cleaning products because they help cut grease and get rid of food particles on dishes. But they also have enormous negative impacts on rivers, streams, and lakes. By fertilizing the waters, phosphates can cause massive algae blooms that starve the water of oxygen and choke aquatic ecosystems, killing fish, amphibians, insects, and plants. Phosphates have been banned from laundry detergents in most places for a number of years now, but consumers have resisted moves to ban them from dishwashing detergents.
... We can lead lives that are even more fulfilling on a cleaner planet where more people have access to clean air, water, and food. All it takes is some imagination and some forward thinking. If we really cared about our world and about our children and grandchildren, we would be willing to make some sacrifices to make the world a better, healthier place. But in most cases, the sacrifices are as illusory as some of the benefits we think we are deriving from our rampant consumerism."
- Read the full article --> www.davidsuzuki.org/about_us/Dr_David_Suzuki/Article_Archives/weekly0504090...
Discussion question:
Have you made sacrifices for the environment or are you still driving for miles to get your hands on detergents and other products that pollute?
User Comments
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We don't drive far for the products we need. We do some things that is a learned habit from me. For instance: These things www.thedailygreen.com/cm/thedailygreen/images/wH/six-pack-rings-lg.jpg always get cut up. They are choke hazards for small animals. Just recently we stopped using dryer sheets. We NEVER litter and we recycle things. Like a huge jug of spring water once empty becomes a Kool Aide jug. Egg cartons become starter flower pots. Tin cans from fruits and veggies become pencil containers. Butter bowls become containers for homemade play doh. Ice cream containers get holes drilled into them and become flower pots. We buy large buckets of laundry detergent and the buckets hold things like garden supplies and once washed out it keeps things like potatoes a little longer.-
It's good to hear that you are on the bandwagon. It's surprising that all parents claim they want a better world for their children. It's surprising that some many refuse to sacrifice "convenience" and exercise some common sense. Many parents today are still addicted to consumerism and the hypocrisy of using brand name polluting products, and failing to reduce, reuse and recycle.
I have no hesitation when it comes to recommending this fellow BC member's blog:
Healthy Green Moms
www.healthygreenmoms.com
Healthy Green Moms focuses on healthy and inspired living with simple tips intended to be a valuable contribution to your life as a mom and inspired woman. -
I've been making little changes here and there. I once volunteered with Greenpeace www.greenpeace.org/usa/ It was an eye opening experience and a lot of what I do now is derived from it. My husband laughs when I dig in the garbage to cut things up.
If I don't teach my kids about the enviroment then no one else will. -
I was fortunate. My grandparents lived through the depression and brought my parents up to be frugal and to recycle. Although like all parents they were exposed to the advertising for polluting products luckily we lived in the country so the lack of access to the latest products was low and the ethic of using what we had plus "elbow grease", in the ways our grandparents had done before us was the order of the day in our household. For me becoming an environmentalist was a done deal by the time I left grade school.
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Some things were because of my great-gram and grandma but until Greenpeace I never cut up my beverage rings or reused half the things that I do. My hubby doesn't even realise it.
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@Shirley,
I have been doing the same for a long time as well. FWIW David Suzuki is also an islander, who lives on a gulf island like myself, and we islanders are environmentally focused and politically active. The mandate of our regional and local government is unique in BC and in Canada is defined by provincial statute. The mandate that all local and regional land use policy decisions must comply with is "to protect and preserve the natural amenities". -
It's funny you mention these things shiley because these are all the things we did as kids in my family, reusing isn't new, I just think as a consumer nation things have been made too convenient in some ways.
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My uncle who is retired from Maytag told me that phosphate is what was pitting my glassware, making it permanantly cloudy looking. From the day on I buy low/no phosphate detergent.-
Wow! I didn't know that. What I am sensitive to is water quality in water recharge zones and in aquifers. I live on a property serviced by my own private well and I have a septic tank. The lack of typical municipal water delivery sewage systems, the lack of freshwater found on islands, and the susceptibility of our aquifers to pollution, means that we islanders are keenly aware of the dangers posed by cleaning products and what we flush down our toilets and into the water table.
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Phosphates are simply the "water free" version of phosphoric acid, a strong acid used for etching teeth and stone. So when phosphates are in water, ta da, you have a nice strong acid which for some reason the fish don't like.
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I make my own detergents with vinegar and bicarb etc.
lasts me ages and costs me pennies.-
That's great. Have you checked out the tips in BC member sweetviolet's blog?
Cheap Tricks and Household Tips
cheaptricksntips.blogspot.com/
There's more than one way to clean a house: get the maximum amount of clean out of the minimum amount of effort and expense -
Ooh how do you do that?
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The Five Basics For Non-toxic Cleaning (baking soda, washing soda, white vinegar, lemon juice, liquid soap)
www.changeeverything.ca/blog/annie_bond/five-basics-nontoxic-cleaning
How To Make Your Own Non-Toxic Cleaning Kit
www.changeeverything.ca/blog/annie_bond/how-make-your-own-nontoxic-cleaning... -
For washing detergent (clothes) you need a bar of pure soap, some bicarbonate of soda, white vinegar and soda crystals.
(I tend to wing it with quantities so I'm a little vague..sorry!)
Grate the bar of soap, and then add the same volume of soda crystals. Add about 100g of Bicarbonate of Soda and about 300ml of white vinegar and about a litre of hot water. Then whisk the mixture until the soap flakes are dissolved.
The vinegar stops the mixture from setting, but if it gets a bit thick just add some more...it also acts as a fabric softener.
Use about 150ml for a normal wash. (I'm guessing these measurements based on the vinegar bottles I store it in)
I've been using it for years and it's worked fine. -
Excellent, thanks! That's probably way cheaper than buying it.
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definitely...the ingredients cost less that a pound and I only have to make a new batch every few months...
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I'm making a list, and checking those links out as we speak. (And I totally get the "winged" measurements, it's how I roll, too. )
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It's also good if you have sensitive skin and is also completely odourless...
One thing to note though is that it doesn't froth like normal detergents, just so you don't start adding loads to try and get it to bubble up! -
That's even better, since our washer doesn't seem to like frothy soaps! I just realized though, soda crystals aren't sold in the US
I can order online, but hopefully it'll be sold here eventually. -
maybe under another name? *starts googling*
"Called Washing Soda, Soda crystals or Sal Soda in the detergent section of stores,"
any of those available near you? -
@SiulARuin
Thanks for sharing. I use washing soda quite frequently. I also concoct a laundry soap mixture like the one you recommend. Mine is more haphazard so I'm going to adopt yours. Also note that one can substitute liquid glycerin for bar soap in a pinch.
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I do my best, but I am often stymied in my efforts because of the way systems are set up: it's much more expensive for me to use public transport than my car to get to work, which I would do, even though it takes twice as long to use public transport.
I wanted to put up a wind turbine and solar panels, however planning permission is extremely difficult: they won't even let me put up a satellite dish without expensive surveys being done.
I want to use locally grown, organic food, but the local council allowed Tesco to pretty much take over. I do my best, but it is a bit of a run in the hamster wheel.-
Sadly a lot of people are caught in the same trap. Where I live we had an alternative building code, solar panels are common as are other environmentally friendly systems and construction materials. My community legislated against big box store zoning. We are supporting our local organic farmers and we are supporting local grocers as opposed to chain franchises.
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I have "made sacrifices" to go green, but when push comes to shove, they're not really sacrifices. I've found that once I got used to using recyclable/renewable/reusable products not only is clean up easier, the results are better, and the cost is almost non existent.
Granted, it did take some getting used to. Not using paper towels or paper plates/napkins etc was a little trying at first, but once I realized that a reusable baby burp cloth/ cloth diaper worked better, easier, and could be washed and used again for years - I was hooked.
I do still occasionally use a harsh chemical cleaner for certain things, I do still use windex on glass, and heavy cleaning soaps on toilets, and occasionally I use disinfectants for heavily soiled non porous surfaces. But other than that, I steam clean the floors with a reusable mop head, and dust/vacuum and blah blah blah.
Next on my list is to get an elbow grease powered lawn mower -
Probably my biggest "sacrifice" is biking or walking most places instead of driving my car...which, as it turns out, both saves me money and helps keep me healthy...-
Amazing, that...
And we wonder why obesity is such a problem these days.
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I do the same thing. I have not had to turn my car on for over six months. -
@jay, Anok & the cook
It's great to hear that you are into bicycling. Sadly I can't manage a bicycle at the present time but once the healing from the head injury is complete and the vertigo is a thing of the past, I will be looking for a 3 wheeled trike with a big shopping basket. I do a lot of walking and rarely use my van.
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As far as 'sacrifices' for the environment go...I sacrificed animal products...that's been the biggest upheaval.
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About 6 years ago now my husband and I decided to only eat meat from organic sources and to only eat meat or fish a maximum of 3 times weekly. Becoming a vegetarian was something I had tried before and failed at. I'm allergic to legumes and the digestive problems were awful. My weight dropped like a stone and I'm not overweight to begin with. We are fortunate that we have access to locally produced organic meats and we are fortunate to live on an island where fresh caught Pacific seafood is also available to us.
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You know, some of the most simple ways to help the environment are also the most old-fashioned.
We hang our clothes out in the sun to dry. We set the deck of our lawn mower to it's maximum height and mow it less frequently. We bike to and from the grocery store in the warmer months of the year.
Our most recent "sacrifice" was paper convenience products -- like paper towels. We just use -gasp- a cloth towel!
I'm not going to paint myself or our household as uber-environmentalists, but if everyone just was willing to sacrifice some of the "conveniences" some marketing person has told them they "need" (Mr. Clean Magic Eraser, anyone??) I really believe there would be a broad impact.-
You are right. The simple things we do can add up to lot and giving up Mr. Clean magic eraser and the like doesn't really amount to sacrifice.
Thanks so much for reminding us of the value of clothes lines, the wasted expanses of grass that everyone thinks we must have and must clip short. Many people I know ripped up their lawns and replaced them with gardens. They have companion planted vegetable,s, berry bushes, dwarf fruit trees and flowers. As I live on acreage we only mow enough to be sure that there is path for a grass fire to turn into a brush fire, to ignite our buildings and home, and become a full fledged forest fire.
We have also given up paper products. Using cloth makes for more washing but I'm happy to know that fewer trees are been felled. I'm quite attached to trees (said she with a broad smile) as I live in a forest.
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We could adopt the lifestyle of a much simpler time - strangely, I was writing about this today:
www.whirledpeas.eu/2009/05/04/the-greenest-generation/-
very smooth...
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I love the line:
he would wear suits in the Eighties that he had purchased during the Truman Administration.
That's a good post, Greencurmudgeon. -
@greencurmdgeon
My partner and I adopted simple living 30 years ago. We live a very basic and almost rustic lifestyle that includes water from a well and splitting our own firewood and kindling, growing our own food, etc. And we are happy to report that we think we made the correct choice. We love where we live and we love the lifestyle we live too.
P.S. Your post is excellent. I admire your writing ability so very much and I share your POV.
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When our electric mower broke down we brought a push lawn mower which by the way has improved since I was a child and cuts the grass as good as any gas or electric mower. It also is good exercise!-
A push mower sounds like the ticket for those who have small patches to cut. In our case we are talking about meadows and pastures that require a Massey 56 tractor and mower behind it.
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No wonder I can't get my pans clean! I guess i know where to go now...
jk. Some people are just whiners-
Thanks for sharing your "confession of a whiner" with us. We'll be here anytime you feel the need to whine again ...
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TT, it is hard to make an assessment of the scenario.
The fact that there is little access of the phosphate detergent to the woman who might have a psychiatric disorder that incurred due to some obsessive personality traits. The ability of get rid of dirt surrounding enpowers her to have self control and lead a life that is free of worry.
So it is really hard to decide what is right or wrong based on individual case. After all, it is politically incorrect to ignore personal interest and ask others to sacrifice. The world is too concentric around individuals these days.-
lot's of people here have psycho-disorders. 'cause of all the sh~t that's already in the water
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I hear you about phosphates but I don't buy it. Phosphate pollution leading to fresh water eutrophication is not my only concern.
The state of drinking water in municipalities is a matter for concern. Today, municipal drinking water is cleansed of germs — but not of drugs.
Traces of 56 human and veterinary pharmaceuticals or their byproducts — like the active ingredients in medicines for pain, infection, high cholesterol, asthma, epilepsy, mental illness and heart problems — have been detected in municipal drinking water in the USA. Starting their winding journey in medicine cabinets and feed bins, they are what’s left of drugs excreted or discarded from homes and flushed into the environment inevitably seeping into the aquifers.
Last year Associated Press discovered that drugs have been detected in the drinking water supplies of 24 metropolitan areas across the country -- from Southern California to Northern New Jersey. Watersheds, the natural sources of most of the nation's water supply, are also contaminated. Pharmaceuticals were detected in 28 out of 35 watersheds tested.
Pharmaceuticals can also be found in underground aquifers, the source of 40 percent of the nation's water supply. Federal scientists who drew water in 24 states from aquifers near contaminant sources such as landfills and animal feed lots detected hormones, antibiotics and other drugs.
U.S. manufacturers, including major drugmakers, have legally released at least 271 million pounds of pharmaceuticals into waterways that often provide drinking water — contamination the federal government has consistently overlooked, according to an Associated Press investigation.
Consumers are considered the biggest contributors to the contamination. We consume drugs, then excrete what our bodies don't absorb. Other times, we flush unused drugs down toilets.
news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090419/ap_on_re_us/pharmawater_factories
www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23504467/
You may be shocked to hear this but there are NO national standards for how much of any pharmaceutical in municipal drinking water is too much. -
we are downriver from Idaho's silver mining past. heavy metal contamination... not to mention the occasional diesel spill from the refueling yard that the corporate socialists in ID paid for the BNSF to put right accross the border from WA
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La sauvegarde de l'environnement est notre seule priorité.Notons qu'il n'est pas du tout necéssaire à l'heure actuelle où les problémes environnementaux englobent le monde d'utiliser des produits chimiques quelque soit leur dégré.Combattons tous pour un environnement sain.
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La sauvegarde de l'environnement est notre seule priorité.Notons qu'il n'est pas du tout necéssaire à l'heure actuelle où les problémes environnementaux englobent le monde d'utiliser des produits chimiques quelque soit leur dégré.Combattons tous pour un environnement sain.
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mahamane says: Safeguarding the environment is our only priority. Let us note this in our current hour wherein the environmental problems include a world addicted to some degree of chemical use. Let us fight all for an healthy environment.
Response: Je suis d'accord avec votre priorité. I don' ; t écoutent le non-sens des politiciens et les sociétés qui indiquent le modèle à jambes des selles 3 (environnement, économie, société) est la correcte. L'environnement n'est pas la jambe d'un tabouret. Sans lui il n'y aurait aucune société et aucune économie.
I agree with your priority. I don't listen to the nonsense of politicians and corporations that say the 3 legged stool model (environment, economy, society) is the correct one. The environment is not the leg of a stool. Without it there would be no society and no economy.
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I have been using homemade cleaners for ages now, along with homemade dishwasher detergent, pour vinegar in where the jet dry should go, everything comes out sparkly!!!-
Hi there. I don't own a dishwasher but my husband does - me. I do all dishwashing by hand in double stainless steel sinks. In the rinse sink I do the same thing you do - I use white vinegar.
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Here in San Antonio we're forced to recycle... I've heard no complaints. We get two bins of equal size and they only pick up once a week for each. I've found that I have more to recycle then to trash and half of the stuff I end up trashing could be compost if I didn't mind smelling it this summer and if my puppy was so damn big. She can scale anything. -
I don't really see protecting the environment as any kind of sacrifice.
And most of the things that can be done to save GHG emissions also tend to save money. For example a simple thing like washing clothes in cold water and hanging them to dry saves energy and ultimately reduces the power bill.
Likely that's why the corporate world is starting to jump on the "green" bandwagon too - never mind altruism - they've also made the connection to the bottom line.
Whatever it takes! -
I make my automatic dishwashing soap with Borax and baking soda. It works great and is cheaper than store bought stuff and better for our environment too. -
Read all the postings here, make me feel sad with my country. In Indonesia we polluted our rivers, cut down our forests, enjoy the economic benefits from those activites then regret it when disaster come.
Then the worst come, we continuing doing the same activities in the name of financial survival.-
I backpacked Indonesia and was saddened by much of the environmental damage that I saw. However, as one person, just do what you can personally and keep reminding the people you know. A great deal of change comes from individuals taking personal steps.
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I just realized that neither my laundry detergent (Gain) or my dish washing soap (Palmolive) have phosphates in them, anyway.
So I think anyone driving out of their way to get "good" cleaners with phosphates is definitely out of their gourd. Both of those cleaners are brand name, high end, easy to use, and relatively inexpensive. (Plus they've worked great for eons) and they don't have phosphates in them.
Heh. -
I am very impressed with the whole lot of you! I am one of those "damn environmentalists" and a member of the board of directors of the Sierra Club where I live. I wouldn't have to spend nearly so much effort in awareness raising campaigns if everyone I met had the forethought that all of you are expressing.
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time thief nous ce qui nous préoccupe ici en Afrique est la meconnaissance de la majorité de la population sur les problémes environnentaux.A l'heure actuelle ils n'arrêtent pas de détruire les arbres,polluer les eaux ....je vois qu'il est temps de sensibiliser pour un environnement sain afin que la génération future serait fier de nous.Tous pour un environnement sain et combattons pour sa sauvegarde.
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timethief us what worries us here in Africa is the ignorance of the majority of the population on the environmental problems. Currently they do not stop destroying the trees, polluting water, etc. I see qu' it is time to sensitize for an healthy environment so that the future generation would be proud us. I'm all for an healthy environment and for fighting for its safeguard.
@mahamane
Je vous entends avec mes oreilles. Je vous entends à mon coeur. Je sais ce qui se produit en Afrique. Je suis malade à mon estomac le sachant. Oui, tenons-nous ensemble pour préserver et protéger l'environnement pour que les générations suivent.
I hear you with my ears. I hear you in my heart. I know what is happening in Africa. I am sick to my stomach knowing it. Yes, let us stand together to preserve and protect the environment for the generations to follow. -
What part of Africa, Mahamane? I am in South Africa.
As a first world citizen who came from subsistence-level farming roots, I can appreciate both sides of this coin. When your primary worry is to have enough food and fuel to survive, you cannot look to conserving the environment, your entire focus is to live to see another day. Sadly, too many people on this continent scrape by at a level of poverty that most first worlders cannot even imagine.
It is not until people have enough resources to be dry, warm, and without hunger that they can even see value in protecting the environment. Up to that point, they seek only to escape death from want.
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this has inspired me to make a thread-
here it is .... please comment www.blogcatalog.com/discuss/entry/do-you-have-a-dishwasher
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Commented
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Hey - can someone tell me what the problem dryer sheets might be?
I use them because otherwise I STICK to everything - I have the frizziest hair - and without dryer sheets in my clothing - I look like bozo the clown.
And I'm not even MILDLY exaggerating. -
I think we need to pay attention to tradeoffs...I've known a lot of people who don't do anything because they can't do it all, and when they DO make an effort, they find themselves slammed for what they don't do rather then commended for what they do.
I have a big back yard...we grow veggies im season. We have a borehole and draw water from beneath our land rather than impact the municipal water supply. I use a number of resource and money saving household products and procedures. This year I am going to start teaching my maid (who does the gardening) about composting.
We will soon be receiving back the principal that we invested in government bonds. Some of that money is going into putting solar hot water into our rental property: all hot water heating in this country is done via electricity, so that will mean three more households saving electricity. I buy bottled water in 5 litre bottles with carry handles, which get recycled into the nearest township...the ladies use them to collect water from the nearest taps and store it in their shacks, keeping their water clean and potable.
But I'm no paragon. I drive an SUV and refuse to give it up. In fact, when this one dies, I will get another SUV...I already know which one. I use it like a pickup, I use it to collect family from the airport and drive them around, I use it for a monthly trip to our local CostCo clone (where I buy things in bulk, cutting down on packaging waste). I live in South Africa...going off road--sometimes unexpectedly--is a fact of life here and a 4x4 is much less a pretentious luxury here than in urban and suburban America. Also, this is my third car since 1974...I keep my cars 15 years or so, and keep them in good mechanical order, which makes them mechanically efficient. This car has at least another six years to go before I will consider replacing it. Most months I use less than a tank of fuel, considerably less than the average commuter, so even though I don't have the highest fuel economy, I don't put a lot of crap into the air or suck down a lot of oil simply because of low usage. And remember...I live in Africa...unexpected off-road "opportunities" can come up at any time!
So, a paragon I am not, but I certainly take numerous steps to recycle (JOIN FREECYCLE!!), re-use, and use up and I firmly believe that every little bit helps!-
Thanks so much for your thoughtful comment. As educated adults living on this planet we either choose to be builders and conservers or we choose to be consumers and destroyers. It's that simple.
Like you I believe that every little bit helps and I do what I can. That's the important focus IMO because it's easy to look at the big picture (global vision) and feel powerless and do nothing at all at the local level. But when added up what we do in our own homes, properties and locally do make a big difference.
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Il ya aussi une chose dont vous ignorez,l'occident a pris l'Afrique comme une poubelle dont on met tout sorte de déchet.Je sais que vous n'avez pas oublié ce qui s'est passé en côte d'ivoire qui en dehors de l'impact de ce déchet toxique sur l'environnement, beaucoup des hommes ont perdu leur vie .Notons aussi ces milliers des voitures qu'on descend sur nos ports qui sont les principales agents de changement climatique dans nos grandes villes.
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