Discussions
Life - Choice of Destiny?
Posted by Dukepro25 • 7/18/08 • Subscribe to this Discussion [RSS] • Report This Topic
Tags: choice, destiny, life
Life - Choice or Destiny
Do you believe...
...you chose your life experience before you were born?
...you were given a choice?
...life is pure chance?
...you can alter your experience?
...you have the power to change your life completely?
Or is it destiny?
- Life Is A Test - or - Life Is What We Make It - ?
User Comments
-
$hi7 happens, then you die. -
1. No.
2. No.
3. No.
4. Yes.
5. Yes, if you are good at recognizing patterns.
6. Destiny makes no sense, but you can be preconditioned to reach a certain outcome. The choice is yours, however. -
Was Julius Caesar destined to be Julius Caesar?
Alexander The Great
Marcus Arrilius
Genghis Khan
Attila the Hun
George Washington
Gandhi
Martin Luther King, Jr.
Hitler-
I don't see what your point is; you're just asking more of the same question.
-
Wasn't directed at you Voodoo.
I was just throwing it out there.
-
Oh, alright.
-
-
I think there were conditions that "determined" them to their individual paths, I don't think their paths were "pre-determined" though. What is the account holder for predetermination\destiny? I don't think there is some kind of account holder that has "before-hand" calculated the future. While I do believe the conditions of our environment "determines" our path, one path, and therefore things are "determined," I don't think there is something that knows before-hand, that can "pre-determine" what that path is because there are too many variables to account for.
-
Agreed
-
-
Wow, this is such a loaded question, and I am certain you are going to get your share of disagreement. I am not being "smartass" in my response, but I believe Life is both destiny and choice. I believe in karma, so in a way we "choose" our life experience before we are born. However, we live in a Free Will Universe, so once we are born, we have choices within that rubric of karmic "destiny." Life also offers signs, experiences, synchronous moments, and others who may or may not have a karmic bond with us. (If I believe in synchronicity, I do not believe in pure chance We choose to see, experience, notice, acknowledge what is before us (or not). So at any point, we can alter your experience by conscious choice. Now, I am waiting for the person who will say this is all bunk because what choice does one have if you are in a car accident, or have a debilitating illness? You still have a choice in how you respond to the experience. There is a pattern set before you that could be your Life (destiny), but you always have the power to change what happens at each Moment, and create the next Moment.-
Agreed
-
what evidence is there that we have free-will?
-
Do you have the choice to tie your shoe in the morning?
Do you have the choice to eat breakfast?
Do you have the choice to go to work?
Do you have the choice to stay at home in your underwear?
- I think it's obvious.
We have free will. -
Some people say god is obvious. But it doesn't prove god exist.
Thanks for pointing out these routines that practically become thoughtless due to the conditioning we experience to take part in these matters everyday.
Why do you tie your shoe? Among other reasons, you know from experience that if you don't you could trip over your laces. These experiences condition you and ultimately determine you to tie your shoe.
Do you have the choice to go to work? If you do or don't go to work, it is determined by how you have been conditioned to respond to the consequences of the other seemingly possible alternatives which are not really alternatives at all just further conditions that determine that path you do take.
Do you have the choice to stay at home in your underwear? no. That is a definite requirement! -
lol
But still...there is free will
Agency. -
You can say there is free-will as many times as you like, but it doesn't prove it. Check out the links I posted below sometime when you have time. Overall, I think you will find the discussions rather enlightening. (some parts get circular becuase new people join in and try the same arguments that have already been successfully refuted.) But overall, you will practically all the arguments for and against free-will.
-
To say there is no free-will is to say that our destinies are planned out step by step, minute by minute and that we have no say in the matter.
Is that what you're getting at?
Just wondering where you're goin with this one.
And also to clarify your position on the matter. -
I hold the position of a "hard determinist." Determinism is the philosophical proposition that every event, including human cognition and behavior, decision and action, is causally determined by an unbroken chain of prior occurrences.
Also see - chaos theory, the butterfly effect, and causality. -
Ah!
Very good.
Very interesting.
-
-
www.blogcatalog.com/group/scientific-methodists/discuss/entry/suggestion-fo...
I posited to morgan a way to test the hypothesis that, "We have free will."-
There is evidence of causality like there is evidence of evolution. There is a lack of evidence for free-will like there is a lack of evidence for god. I have participated in a lot of free-will debates, and while some end up inconclusive on whether it's a strict deterministic environment or not, they often end up with nothing to suggest we have free-will.
Free-will I - richarddawkins.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=44225
Free-will II - richarddawkins.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=623
The debate in the above forum got so long it was split up into two threads. I participated in both. -
Interesting definition of free-will.
In their assessment of the term...
The term free-will would insinuate that free-will means to act without interference and to do what you wish, when you wish, with non outside interruption, opposition or friction. To further expand on that…
Free-will does not exist, because there are outside forces influencing your choice and the outcome of your choice. Where as, if you truly had free-will, the desired outcome would occur every single time, despite the current environment and/or conditions.
They also stated that the idea of free-will constitutes right and wrong, but in all reality, there is no right and wrong. Right and wrong are relative to your own understanding.
Am I understanding this correctly? -
That's the OPers presented definition, it gets clarified further several times throughout the thread.
I wouldn't say that free-will constitutes right and wrong. However, It does have the consequence of one being held responsible for ones own actions. -
Interesting
-
-
I don't feel the need to convince anyone, morgantj. Just sharing a perspective based on life experiences. Sorry there will not be any debate emanating from this little chat box.
-
No problem. Thought I would ask in hope of gaining some insight and coming closer to the truth.
I have been hearing that answer a lot lately in the "is there a god" debates too, "I don't feel the need to convince anyone."
-
-
Is there free will in a deterministic world? No one knows, but everyone has their theories. There is evidence, according to some, that free will and determinism can coexhist, but the scope of that conversation is huge and the arguments are lengthy on both sides, filling books upon books, and usually causing headaches.
My personal belief is that we have choices which are determined by our personal history and environment — which is determined often by things we do not control, but that we do control minutia which in turn changes the events which actually determine our path.-
Very good.
Very well put.
I first understood the concept of environment & nurture, and it's roll in determining who you become when I was about 8.
Is that freaky or what? -
I have a good friend who insists he did as well. He is a poet, a surfer and always has been rather freaky so this level of knowledge must be reserved for those who are slightly freaky.
-
lol
I'll take that as a compliment.
-
-
Life is not always all about our own choices, but also the choices of the people who affect us in our daily lives.-
True
But - with that said...
We attract (consciously or subconsciously) those very people, situations & circumstances . -
It is a scary thing at times, and sometimes those people, situations and circumstances which we attract does subtly reflect on who we are. And lately, i haven't been very comfortable with the things i've experienced so far in recent times.
-
Duke, Had you of been born in China, would English be your native language? would hold the same beliefs you do now? Would you be the person you are today? No. Why not? Couldn't you choose to? Of course not, your environment conditions you, molds who you are, what you do, determines your every step.
Circumstances creates us, moves us. This motion caused by previous circumstances creates new circumstances. But we are not driving, causality is. -
@Azure
That is where I like to think I have a choice in the matter.
@Morgan
Seems logical enough. -
hi morgan,
Yes, i do see your point in circumstances. So much so that i can say for myself, i have always done everything in my own capability to avoid being conditioned by my current surroundings and mould myself to become who i want to be. -
IntoTheAzureSea, your understanding of how your surroundings condition you and mold you actually conditioned you and ultimately determined you to try to avoid the very conditioning that caused you to want to avoid it.
In short, ironically, the very desire to be free from the deterministic environment was caused by it. -
Hmmmm.
I see. Then i find it most ironic for me not to realize this about myself all along ! Hahahah. -
why is that ironic?
-
Because what you have said is something that i would never think of in the first place. Even though i set aside time to reflect and contemplate.
-
oh, I thought you said, "i have always done everything in my own capability to avoid being conditioned by my current surroundings "
-
-
BC Group Discussion on free-will - www.blogcatalog.com/group/popular-science/discuss/entry/is-free-will-just-a...
I participated in this one too. -
I used to pontificate on such things. More recently I learned that the whys & wherefors are mostly a distraction from pursuing my happiness (which is far more important.)-
So you have concluded that your "happiness" is your purpose in life?
-
Doesn't everyone?
-
I don't fret about "purpose" anymore, either. I just strive to be happy.
-
Very good LGramlich.
-
-
Life is nothing but a series of options from which to choose. The better your choice, the greater your future options. Poor choices limits future options. Destiny is a result. -
We are given choices, I believe we choose our destiny. -
In five simple words: 'We are acting it out'.-
acting what out? Pretending to have free-will? If so, then I agree.
-
-
have have the power... but if u are in deep shit..it's hard-
If you have the power, then you are responsible for being in deep shit.
-
-
As children we are born into the world without choice. As we grow older, we have the freedom and ability to choose, for all intense and purposes, yet we are also shaped and conformed by externalities.
Real freedom is found within.
I don't believe my life is planned out, so to speak. One of the constants in life is change, within and around ourselves. -
In the present it is always choice. In the past we always think it was destiny.
Yah I know that one is deep. Just because I do humor doesn't mean I can't philosiphize. hehe. -
Some Christians believe that there was a spiritual life before our time here on earth, and that in that time, we had the choice as to when, where, and who we would be given to.
Do you share this idea?
What if I told you that, you had the choice as a conscious being to choose when you came to this earth and that by choosing when you came to this earth, it set in motion everything you would ever be.
That by coming to this earth at a specific time, it determined your personality and how you would interact with the world.
It would determine your purpose on the earth and what it was that you were suppose to do and be.
I’m not talking about destiny, I’m talking about a predisposition to act and be a certain way.
? ? ? ? ?
Any one?-
@Duke, why is it necessary to tie your question int with "some Christians believe"? The constant inclusion of Christianity in questions seems to have one primary purpose. -
lol
I apologize.
I was just getting my point across.
I guess it wasn't absolutely necessary, but it's true non-the-less.
I understand your frustration. lol -
The use of Christianity or other religious belief is becoming a trolling technique in the Discussions and the admins are going to start removing posts that use religion simply to gain attention. The same applies to new threads started about religious topics when there are similar threads.
-
I apologize.
That was not my intention.
-
-
"Do I believe in Destiny? I think I don’t. If we have freewill, then we can make our own destiny, and if we can change it, then it’s not pre-destined. We often associate destiny for things or events that we don’t have control. And not be able to control these things doesn’t mean it’s supposed to happen anyways. It’s just others are the ones controlling it."
Excerpts from a post at my blog. To read more, check this.
wastedwisdom.blogspot.com/2008/04/destiny-freewill-and-luck.html -
@TonyB If you read more of Dukepro25's comments, you would know that this is not his intention. There are others who definitely do what you are saying, but I think Duke was just providing a point of reference by referencing Christianity. Unfortunately, in order to get an intelligent discussion about spirituality, sometimes one needs to start with a religious reference. Many people think a religious discussion IS a spiritual discussion, and don't know how to see that any other way.
-
Thank you spomib.
-
-
I agree with spomib, that life is both choice and destiny.
I think that we are given a destiny. It is laid out before us. But it is our choices and our actions that bring us to that destiny.
You have heard the expression that someone is destined for greatness. You look down the road and that person has made bad decisions leading them away from destiny.
Have you read the Alchemist? I am reading that now and it discusses this. We have a Personal Legend. But some people don't follow it. Our destiny. A person that wants to be a writer may be destined for this, but they are also practical and choose a normal boring job to pay the bills and feed their children. They never realize their destiny. -
We all have given the premortal power to choose, even before we were born, we chose the kind of life we will have in this earth. Only after we made the choices not designed according to our plans, made by us and the Maker can we alter our destiny.
Add Your Comment
Login to leave a message.
