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Longer School Days for US Students??
Posted by lotusb • 9/28/09 • Subscribe to this Discussion [RSS] • Report This Topic
Topics: education
Related Link: news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090927/ap_on_re_us/us_more_school
I think Obama is in for another attack for his recent remarks regarding possibly lengthening both the school YEAR and school DAY of primary and secondary students education (1-12).
His reasoning is that it will give US students a more competitive edge against the rest of the globe. Students in Asian countries go to school over 201 days a year as opposed to US 180 days, and score significantly higher. Many other countries around the world require that their children spend most of their youthful years in some kind of educational system that takes up the majority of their time and it seems to pay off in test score and discipline later in life.
On the flip side, some people believe Us students are already over loaded...
What's your take?
User Comments
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They've been threatening this for a number of years. In fact, this was discussed even when I was in school... things like Saturday school or school year-round. I know some areas are already doing the latter.
Personally, thinking back, I would have preferred having not MORE school, but more things that were a little more interactive and less rote memorization.
Some of the classes I'd learned the most from were ones where the things we were learning were applied directly to everyday life.-
Thats a good point.
The more and more I study education (this is my major), I am realizing that more time would actually benefit the purpose. One of the most difficult tasks for most teachers is squeezing in so much to so little time. I imagine if school were extended by even an hour there would be more time to make it interesting, instead of concentrated lecture. Group activity is the best way to teach primary students and I think it should be 90% of their curriculum, but it takes up a LOT of class time. -
How do you feel that would impact homework and extra-curricular activities?
I know through high school, I would be doing homework clear until ten or 10:30 at night, only to go to bed and start it all over again. -
Well I think that if the curriculum were re-evaluated teachers could make a larger percent of student's in class work count towards their grade. Homework could consist of once-a-week review assignments. An end-of-the-day exam might be another good way to evaluate student's standing and understanding. I think Obama has the right idea and those before him who suggested it. Our school system and curriculum model is based on a very old school of though. In today's society things should be modernized to fit the way things work now. Leaving school at 4 or 5 pm, still allows for extra-curricular activities. In high school I was in theatre, dance, student council and still tutored after school and taught at a local middle school once a week. I didn't get home most nights till 9am and still did homework. What did this do? Prepared me for life, in a BIG way.
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I agree with this. Better quality school.
And of course, how many more hours will they be requiring teachers to work for little pay? In Australia, teachers come to school at 8, leave at 4.30, are required to do 37.5 hours of professional development in their own time a year, are constantly marking work or planning work at home in their 'own time'. Apparently for a new teacher it is common to be working 70 hours a week for the first 3 years, for $50,000 a year, plus of course buying a lot of resources out of their own pockets. (Yet I'm crazy and going into it anyway).
It is a job that has a lot of stress, we can't just go home and forget about things, and there's almost no chance of promotion. (being a principal is a different job to being a teacher, so though there's a chance of being a principal or coordinator, that's not the same job I want!).
It's also a hugely emotionally heavy job.
Now try extending to 200 days a year... t he teachers will all be gone of stress leave by 3 years into a regime like that.
Sure we 'have holidays' but they're spent doing training, planning, and *gasp* having a little break so we don't go nuts.
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More time for kids like me to sleep. -
I think it's a bunch of BS. I think a lot of kid's problems these days come from public schools and I'll be damned if I want my kids there anymore than they are already.-
I'm not a parent, but I've worked in schools off and on for a few years now. I notice most of the student's problems actually stem from home. No one is a greater influence than one's parents.
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That's just a bad idea. I can remember being overwhelmed in elementary school - things like building an entire model of a California mission plus a 20 page report in fourth grade, presentations and papers in eighth grade that made me cry, etc.
Five days a week from 8 to 3 or whatever is enough. Let kids have fun doing after school activities and sports. I didn't have time for much in high school other than homework and a job - I didn't do anything fun at all.-
I think it depends greatly on a lot of moving variables. If this were implemented, the curriculum would be rearranged. It would have to consist of less homework and in class time for homework as well. I can't imagine anyone assigning a 4th grader a 20 page report without at least a month's notice. A 20 page report over the course of 30 days shouldn't make you cry, but I'm sorry that was your experiance if they didn't allow you sufficient time to do it.
I personally think US student's are pretty lazy. -
I think students here are pretty lazy too. I look around my neighborhood when I get home from work and these kids are not overworked. Quite the contrary. I've never seen them stay in to study or decline to stay out longer because a project is due.
Both of my sons were in "school" before they went to kindergarten. Yes it was a daycare, but it was year round and for longer hours than regular school hours. Both children learned a lot from school, had a fun time both during and after school hours, and had no idea that there was summer vacation once they got to 5 years old.
I say shorten summer vacation to a month, 6 weeks tops.
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Currently the states control the schools, and in that the different counties may have their own set-up. Some of our states have pretty abysmal public schools even though within that there might be a few exceptions. The socio-economics of any given area will in most cases dictate how good the school is.
Parents and family life in general are the biggest indicator of how a kid does in school. Like it or not.
The one thing that across the board that would make a difference, and they have known this since before I was born, but due to cost have always tired to "do something else to fix the system", is decreasing the student teacher ratio.
The largest advantage private schools have is that you are often looking at 13 to 15 kids per class instead of 30.
I went to school in Australia until I was 12, a private school. Our summer breaks were maybe 6 weeks and we did have a longer days than the public schools there. We has a few other weeks off during the year though. -
I actually agree with him and have said this for years - longer school days (1) are more condusive to households where both parents work and aren't necessarily home at 3 in the afternoon (typical end of school day). (2) I think the long summer months off lead to lazy days and it takes longer for students to get back into the swing of things.
Think about it - when you enter the workforce, you are 365 days a year with breaks for vacations only. My parents started me as an employee when I was 15 - I haven't had a summer off since and I think my strong work ethic reflects that. I was always going either to school or to work and during school breaks, I worked full-time.-
And you don't work 7 days a week, and there's no homework.
I have developed all sorts of major stress problems from my highschool experiences. I was often in tears from being overworked. I would get home, have an hour to 'rest' and then be working until 11 pm. I'd see friends on a friday night, and then be working again on weekends.
Primary school was better.
I think the whole homework thing is ridiculous.
Also there is no way for teachers to include all the content that society expects students to know, in their school life. They have to provide an integrated curriculum, and the skills for the students to go and find out their own information in the future.
I hate how so many adults complain that children don't k now the full history of the first world war by the time they're 14 years old. Perhaps the parents should educate their kids as well, because First, Second world wars, ancient history, Industrial Revolution, First Settlement etc etc etc, plus sooo many other topics (and History isn't even on the curriculum here!!) take up a LOT of time. -
that said, yes they should know about the wars, but society should help them learn about it too, not just school.
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As long as these extra hours are filled with music, drama, culinary, art, photography, social graces and dance ... it's fine by me.-
Unfortunately I think the biggest concern is that many students don't have the basic stuff down, let alone the patience to learn music or art. Although I whole heartedly agree that these elements feed the ability to comprehend more scientific theories.
Either way, it would definitely help create a more inclusive curriculum. -
lotusb... Those things ARE important for children. Perhaps their lack of patience is due to being forced to sit at desks to learn those things. Why not the maths in music? The literacies of drama? (reading or writing a script, performance, oral tradition) This *is* basic stuff.
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I think if they were to extend the day, it wouldn't be in the best interest of the students at first, but they should have something stimulating to do. More hands on things. Being stuck at your desk with a pencil for more time will only bore them. Sure in Asia its normal, but to start that here would be like cold revving an engine. Sure it will "work" but, is it really helping?
I think its all about content. Not all kids are programmed to retain and process. They need something different. Its possible that the very same time spent in school can be sufficient, and a curriculum change may be needed.-
A curriculum change is definitely needed. I petitioned for an alternative school method center in my community when I was in high school, which got denied (of course), and denied several times. But I still push for that and will continue to do so until I can start my own school. The method for learning today is not condusive with a globally competitive business world or any other industry today. We are not all daughters and sons of farmers who simply need to know how to read, write and count hens. Students need more than that, and in order to provide it an entire re design is required.
I hope that Obama actually follows through with this, at LEAST for the sole purpose of stirring up the idea that changes, SEVERE changes, in the education of America's youth needs to be bulldozed and rebuilt.
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I think there's way too much school as it is. Most of it is just filler and killing time. The essentials could be taught in much less time. I think homework should be jettisoned altogether. And I would like to see more art and music and hands-on stuff emphasized, from cooking to carpentry to driver's ed. to playing a musical instrument.-
I have to say that's a huge contridiction. "homework" is just practice of a newly learned method. That applies to reading, writing, math, science, music, art...etc. ANY lesson taught in school is going to have to be practiced in order for that student to obtain it. Now I don't agree with HOURS and HOURS of homework, but I don't think it should be wiped out. And I don't know your credentials in the education field, not that I have any, I'm only a student; but I can assure you that the curriculum is not "filler" as it stands. I think because of standardized testing, the curriculum is actually HIGHLY condensed and incomplete.
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My experience is of the highest order-I was a student myself. As for homework, numerous studies have indicated that in most instances it's actually detrimental not only to learning but to the student's overall well-being. However, what has been shown to be beneficial are long term projects, such as preparing something for a science fair or writing a short story or scholarly paper.
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Well there are studies that support sperm helps reproduce skin cells, but we don't all have to fall into that mind, no do we?
I meant I'm a student of education, as in it's my major...but being a student of any kind helps one understand the needs...although it's a slightly bias viewpoint.
I think the bottom line is the school system needs to be redecorated to fit the world today.
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I don't believe it is the amount of time spent in school that puts America behind other countries. It has to do with the quality of the teaching. Until they quit teaching to the test, students are going to keep getting a sub-standard education. I finally had to take my kids out of the school system in order for them to learn. My 16 year old son went from testing at 7.8 grade level to 12.1 grade level in just 5.5 months at the National Guard Youth Challenge Program.
Our education system also does not teach Kinesthetic learners probably and therefore you have millions (mostly boys) dropping out of school every year because they just cannot learn in that environment.-
Teachers are foced to teach the curriculum which is decided by higher powers than they. There are VERY slight changes a teacher can make to a curriculum standard. Mostly they can adjust their method. Either way the entire thing should be redesigned. With all the pesky, stupid changes made to the school system; not pledging allegence, uniforms, NCLB act...WHY hasn't anyone sat down and figured out a new model.
I don't get why this isn't important enough! -
Not to get off topic, but I think that school uniforms are an absolutely terrific idea, for many reasons. Not stupid or pesky. Your other examples, well, I'll let someone else argue for or against those.
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Of course uniforms are beneficial. I wrote my last final paper on school uniforms and I'm totally for them.
However, I think the issues are not being prioritized properly. Uniforms, though inportant, are not nearly as important as the curriculum. -
I so agree with you and when they do change things, it is usually for the worse not the better. I think kinesthetic learners should be identified in 1st or 2nd grade and put on a different educational path than the others and given more hands on technical training as they get older. They need to move to learn.
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I'm a Middle School teacher and I can tell you that what US students need is not more school days but more resources for the 180 days that they currently attend school. Instead of worrying about extending the school year they should worry about bringing art and music back to inner city schools.-
@ TCM,
I soooo agree with this statement! -
@TCM: Absolutely. Though I also think they need to learn who they are (which Performing Arts in particular can help with) before the gangs teach them. -
Yay, awesome opinion.
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Personally! I feel kids already spend enough time in school, blaming not enough time for poor grades etc is a copout... I blame the public school's curriculum.. They have pretty much abandoned anything that the kids need... that will encourage grow, interest, and skills; for instance most hands on is gone, the arts are practically non-existent in some places, very little gym for exercise to help keep the oxygen flowing properly etc.. etc.
Where we are located if they cut back on anything else because of lack of funds, the kids might as well stay home.
The kids leave for school at 7am and get back at 4pm, five days a week, how much more time is needed.. They would have no time to relax and be kids, that is part of the learning experience, play, using the imagination..
I feel that the reason kids are so overloaded today is the after school's activities, one or two a week is okay, but I have seen kids doing stuff everyday up until 9 at night, and weekends, the sports teams travel during the week and weekends to games. Seems that sports has gotten more important the the basic 3 r's..., not to mention the costs, parents are taking on 2nd and 3rd jobs in order to pay for the uniforms, equipment, and traveling expenses of their 3rd... 4th and 5th graders...(and that is just the beginning) And the scheduling is a bear.. if you have more then one child involved in sports. An awful lot of pressure for the whole family. Takes the joy out of living!
I don't see American students as lazy.. I see them as bored with school and at the same time overloaded and tired, with so many side activities, and scheduling problems, so much so... that they have just given up!-
Here, the kids go from 8:30 to 2:50, barring extracurricular activities. They barely have time to get settled in to class when it's time for break or lunch.
I think that changing the emphasis from (read: obsession with) sports to arts would be a beneficial change for kids. Do we need seventeen different teams a kid could be on, or could we use some of that money to fund after-school music and art programs instead of uniforms and travel money?
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I home school my kids. Thee do twice as much work in half the time. We have to go 90 days a semester. There is nothing that tells us how many hours a day. We just go at it until we get thru. Sometimes that is a couple hours sometimes it is 4 to 5 hours. then they have homework to do. Homeschooling will be affected by adding days to it but they do so much better than children that go to school I dont know if it will be any better or not. they have ess distractions, and pressure too.-
I don't think that's an indication that homeschooling is better, but that small classes are better.
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in Portugal we have 9 months of school 3/4 of the year, and 5 to 10 hours of school a day, I don't really know how it the US is! but here we study a lot-
We go about 1/2 the year and the typical school day is about 6 hours long.
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6 months? wooow! I wanna study in US! 6 hours? Not much
We have 90 minutes classes, me for eg: German 90min 2 times a week + 135 min in tuesday, Philosophy 90min x2 times a week, and they are all 90 min, except German -
It's more like 9 months with breaks and holidays interspersed (including either 2 weeks in December, 1 week in February, and 1 week in March or 2 weeks in December and 2 weeks in March). We have a lot of national holidays in the US. Every president seems to add a new one. We also have 2 days a week off, with either a third day off or a third day 2 hours short in many districts.
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we got 14 national holiday, most important is the 5th of October and 25th of April, a few years we had schools on saturdays! LOL now we just have 5 days a week, without saturdays and sundays, and Christmas holidays(14 days) we got 7 months of school
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This discussion is also being held in the Political Forum:
www.blogcatalog.com/politics/discuss/entry/longer-school-days
I don't think the Asian countries personal discipline comes from having more school. They actually teach their country's culture in school there, something we refuse to do here, hence our children have no root and no clue whatsoever as to who they are. The Asians also have a much stronger sense of community in school, requiring all students to participate in interscholastic competition rather then those who decide they are athletes. They waste valuable years finding out, and have no drive in the meantime. That which has no direction will go in circles, in random tandem, or nowhere at all.
Further, Asian countries are, as psychological studies regarding Authoritarian & Authoritative parenting styles have shown, probably a bad model for the United States. Authoritarian parenting, when used on American children, leads to repressed, incapable, henpecked adults while it leads to hardworking personally defined dynamos when used on Japanese children. The difference is the kind of root taken. This is especially true with American males. A Wikipedia article on parenting styles is given below:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parenting_styles
The US is an individualistic country where people define themselves as themselves instead of what groups they belong to and roles they have. This changes our entire psychology and means that what works well there will probably not work well here and the other way around as people here do not draw definition from their family and group but from their own choices. Thus, you deprive students of their choices, they become dullards because they have nothing to define themselves with and, the minute they leave school, they stop doing anything and become fearful and, sometimes, resentful, often feeling a sense of relief and joy when their parents die.
Force creates nothing but fear and corruption and silences all good. Use too much fire, you end up with children of ash. Our Asian friends don't use fear, they use family. We can't - it's not our society. Stop trying to be them.-
We teach history, but ya most schools don't teach Indian Culture because we ah...murdered or placed them in containment, them. Other than that the culture of the Mayflower folks is pretty well taught, though a lot of people have family who were immigrants, in the early part of the last century from Poland, Austria, Ireland, Italy and so forth. We do now teach the culture of slavery barely. I am not sure what culture you think they aren't teaching? Each family might have their own roots in other lands.
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@cooper: We're not teaching the actual values of our country, like the Japanese do when they punish a whole class for the behavior of one student, communicating their view of who you are as a Japanese.
As for "other roots in other lands," those folks, living here, are American now. If they live in an ethnic neighborhood, I do not object to it handling its' school different.
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I think students need to stay in school longer is because it may increase their study habits and might just keep them safe from harm. When students get out of school there is too much time for them to get into trouble before dark. But this is just my opinion!
The following article shows what happened recently.
www.examiner.com/x-7520-Chicago-Crime-Examiner~y2009m9d27-Extra-police-near... -
I hated school when I was a kid. Some classes I enjoyed when the teacher made learning fun. Those teacher put construction paper on the door to keep from getting in trouble.
Then, there was the sexual harassment. I would go home in tears half of the time. I would hate to be in school any longer than I had to be.
@exit "keep them safe from harm." In a Cleveland school you get beaten for the clothes you wear, skin color, gang name and just for fun. Security guards can't stop it all.
I think this will raise the suicide rate in children as well. When people are pressured too much suicide rate goes up.
In Finland the students excel far beyond any other country and their kids don't even start school until they are seven I think.-
Really sorry about the sexual harassment miss. Yeah, our schools were tough in that there was a lot of fighting but nothing that blatantly disrespectful and it was man-to-man, not involving gangs. There were a couple times when people got seriously hurt because the fighting got out of hand (I, unfortunately, was the culprit on one of those - I threw a rock at a kid) but in general you at least felt like there was some honor to it. This was in WA, Seattle Suburbs.
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I don't think more time in school is going to change anything if the quality of the education is slipshod to begin with. It's not quantity we need, but quality.-
Agree. Otherwise you'll just turn students off to all intellectual activity, and that might be bad.
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no lie, every state when it comes to school is very laxed besides new york which has the regents exam... i think all states need the regents -
I think you need *less* exams.
I hear that in the US five year olds are taught to 'bubble'. That's the most ridiculous thing I heard last week.
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I lol to the idea that school kids in the US are overloaded. If you are talking about being fully baked and drunk, then yeah maybe they have a point. But, if we're talking about actual curriculum, oh hell no. Kids in the US are some of the laziest, corner cutting, procrastinating bunch on the planet.-
And how will more time in class, being watched by teachers, fix that? If that's really the problem you have, why not just give them lots of homework?
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An unbelievable amount of time spent in school is already wasted on pointless activities. More time isn't necessary; quality materials and instruction are. If the school day or year were extended significantly, that would be the tipping point for me in terms of pulling my daughter out of school altogether.-
You're after my heart.
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I complained about my shoes until I saw a guy with no leg -
I think kids need the arts and recreation. But more importantly they need discipline and to really absorb what they are studying. Children need to apply themselves in order to have better lives and a good future. All kids need training and to be taught respect and to be taught to be more reserved and less sinful. Yes folks, I dared to say the obvious.
Note* For the children who are applying themselves this extra long school term should not apply. A child by child evaluation could be made.-
lol 'sinful'. Why is 'reserved' a good thing?
I have a class of year 5s right now and they haven't had a chance to think for themselves, so when I try to encourage group discussion I'm met with total silence. I blame their previous teachers, not this year's one. (I'm not their actual teacher). Reserved is not good. Reserved does not encourage thinking, experimentation, trial and error, confidence in ones own ability, conversational or debating skills, moral/ethical development, self identity and many other important skills for children.
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Having been a strong resistor of memorization I chose to go thru life without putting anything to memory
Have to say the experiment has been a costly failure
You NEED memorization. All successful people in my profession have a good memory and rote capacity
And you better take that schooling seriously!-
... and you can't put things to memory by having good experiences with them so you understand them and memorise them that way, rather than constantly learning via rote? Rote has a place, but it should not be used all the time.
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Just browsing, interested in school in other parts of the world. I am a British teacher in a French High School. Here in France we have school days that start at 8 in the morning and finish at 6 at night. Admittedly some days some classes finish earlier, but it not unusual for kids to be doing lessons eight hours in a day with one hour for lunch. It's counter productive of course. Nobody can concentrate for that long. However, most of my colleagues would say that concentration levels are reasonable until four in the afternoon with two twenty minute breaks and an hour at lunch time. Lessons are fifty minutes long and pupils have two hours of sport a week, the rest is academic.
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