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Kinda old of a story but yeah he had a right to do what he did. He shouldn't of been in her house without his knowledge so he should of been seen as someone who broke into his house. The courts used the loop-hole that the daughter let him into the house so he had every right to be in there.

I say the Father was right if he didn't know him or not. Plus if lets say the lights were dim or off how would he know it was a teen.

This is another example of how the U.S is becoming weak. Back in the day if I got caught in a girlfriends house naked I would of gotten my ass beat just for the fact. Now imagine if the father thought I was attempting to rape his daughter, I would of had a gun aimed at my head or a knife at my.........

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9/27/08

mugshot

Dude what right does he have to beat someone senseless without establishing whats going on?

I grew up in a house with my mum, dad and 7 siblings, if I went around beating ppl with pipes in the night coz they were in the house and I didnt know who they were I would have caused harm to thousands just coz my sisters n brothers friends stayed over!

In a court of law in the UK, even if the lad was robbing the place the father would still get done for aggravated bodily harm as this is not self defense its brutality.
9/27/08

EXZombie

I'm sorry but naked dude stanger over someone you love, You arn't gonna say "Hey buddy, May I inquire on what you are doing". You're gonna knock him down and then ask that.

Plus you make it sound like he went all UFC on the guy with a pipe. 14 staples is equal to one blow with a pipe. ONE BLOW. Multiple blows would of meant staples in the hundreds.

If all he did was walk in, See a guy from behind and took a swing I see nothing wrong with that. Brutal would of been kicking a guy while he was down or trying to escape.

By the way, I respect your opinion, Don't let it seem like I don't. It's just that your saying that you have people around your house all the time isn't a quiet little Orlando family where sex noises would make you jump up and say HEY, What's going on here.
9/27/08

mugshot

I get what your saying I thought it was like UFC with the pipe, single blow I dig that...

I would say though that a naked dude is very defenseless against a man with a pipe so he could of asked what was goin on lol

9/27/08

mattiasx

The man shouldn't have beaten the poor kid, but I don't blame him for being startled.

It's easy for us to say that he was in the wrong, but if you have no clue that your kid was seeing someone, and you wake up in the night to what you think is your kid being raped, what would you do?

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9/28/08

earthlingorgeous

Yeah I agree I wouldn't blame him for being startled but he got no right to beat that boy. He was groggy just awakened and was SHOCKED.

9/27/08

Man..... Stuff like this really makes me hope I never have a daughter. I know my kind too well. We're like Dogs. I mean look at this kid, He sneaked onto another mans property to.... Well you know what he did.... All while the father was home.

I had enough respect to atleast know that no one would be home for a while.

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9/27/08

DrowseyMonkey

I hope you never have a daughter either.

She's not her father's property.

She had sex with her boyfriend, like many of us did when we were teenagers, like many people have since the beginning of freaking time.

The father could have behaved like a rational adult rather than a raving lunatic. He needs to pay for what he did, he over reacted in a horrendous way and deserves jail time.

It's the job of a parent to teach their children how to behave like adults, kind of hard to do when the adults behave like children.
9/28/08

earthlingorgeous

DM I never had sex when I was a teenager not everyone does, well depends on your country of origin I guess but not ALL have sex when they were teenagers.
9/28/08

DrowseyMonkey

I didn't have sex as a teenager either, that wasn't my point. My point is this man acted out of anger and people in this thread seem more upset about teenagers having sex then they are about the violence. It boggles the mind.

9/27/08

poisonapplesauce

I say he was right. Truthfully people if it were 4am and there was a naked man in your 15 year old daughters room in the dead of night, you hear nothing but sounds, knowing the high rate of crime now days you would sit there and watch it go down? You wouldn't do anything in your power to protect your child if you thought she was in danger? As MPDZombie said, if the lights were down how was he to know? He obviously was not there when the father went to bed, so he snuck in.

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9/27/08

EXZombie

Plus how did he know there was only one? What if there were more people in the house. Him going in and asking what was going on would of been more than enough time for a partner who was waiting his turn to knock the father out.

You people who think the father is wrong for this which was minimal (Again, That many staples is one blow. Many blows would of been more) are the same who wonder why criminals have such an easy time getting away with crime.

I say as long as you the owner of the house didn't lure the person into your house they have a right to defend their domain.

Stop defending criminals people. You make laws that do nothing but take the rights away from law biding citizens.

9/27/08

By the way, You guys might want to do some research on cases of breaking and entry rape in Florida. My County had a rapist loose for a while who was doing such a thing even to the point that he got into a room where two girls were sleeping and did his thing.

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9/28/08

earthlingorgeous

OMG!

9/27/08

mitch972

in Texas... that is just cause. You have the right to protect your domain and the contents of your domain. (house and family inside) At 4am, waking up from a dead sleep, you don't have many options. Of the basic concept of the story, and not knowing the lighting of the room, I side with the Dad. I'd expect other fathers to do the same thing.

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9/27/08

EXZombie

Same thing applys here in Florida where it happened but they used the loophole that the daughter let him into the house so that meant the father no longer had said right to defend himself.
9/27/08

Greg69Sheryl

Don't "make my day" laws apply only to intruders? If the daughter claims that he is indeed her boyfriend, and she let him into the household voluntarily, then he could legally be defined as a guest rather than as an intruder, making the boyfriend a victim of domestic violence rather than a burglarly suspect. Based on whatever the age of consent laws might be in Florida (we understand there are close-in-age exemptions, but we don't know the specifics), the boyfriend might still be guilty of statutory rape, but that wouldn't make the father any less liable for the assault.

As a practical matter (rather than a moral matter), we think that the father's anger was grossly misplaced. If he feels that his daughter is too young to be having sex, then he needs to be less concerned about getting revenge on the boyfriend and more concerned about talking to his daughter about the choices she makes. Furthermore, if his daughter is staying out late at night and making boyfriends that he doesn't know about, then we have to seriously question his parental skills.

Incidentally, can anyone provide the URL to a news report about this story? As a hypothetical situation, it makes for an interesting conversation, but it sounds an awful lot like an urban legend.

9/27/08

faithsju243

I almost want to be on the kid's side because he did get hit with a pipe but than I think about this situation realistically and what did we expect the girl's father to do.....walk into his daughter's bedroom and ask the intruder to have some tea. I don't think so. The father was doing what any good father would do, protect his kid from harm. At 4AM, it's pretty darn dark and we have to remember this guy is being startled from his sleep hearing god knows what from his daughter's room.

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9/28/08

earthlingorgeous

exactly

9/27/08

I say he was in the wrong. Regardless of what he thought was happening, he has a legal obligation to comply and follow the laws surrounding the use of deadly force. The first thing any weapon should be used for is to gain control of a situation or person by being a visible deterrent to willful continuation of an act. At no time should anyone commit use of the weapon unless control and deterrence is not gained and there exists a DIRECT AND POSITIVELY ASCERTAINED DANGER TO LIFE OR BODILY HARM AND INJURY.

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9/27/08

MadameX

"there exists a DIRECT AND POSITIVELY ASCERTAINED DANGER TO LIFE OR BODILY HARM AND INJURY."

This is not what the law says.

9/27/08

timethief

Was the dad in the right? What would YOU have done?

I would call out to the daughter asking: "What's that noise? Are you alright?" She would reply either before or as I entered the room and I would throw on the light switch. I would observe that there was a kid having sex with my kid and I would not use my weapon at all.

The father beat the boy repeatedly with a pipe but not his daughter? How selective. And people are defending the father as though she was a fair maiden being raped.

She allowed this boy into her home. She allowed this boy into her bedroom. She allowed this boy to have sex with her. She is not a victim at all. She is jointly responsible for the scenario.

I do not condone the father's assault on the boy and IMO the repeated blows with a pipe are indicative of an anger fit.

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9/27/08

EXZombie

Again....... One blow equals about a dozen stitches most of the time.

Repeated blows would mean that he would have more than a little over a dozen stitches. Not only that but broken bones or bruising. Did the article say anything about more injuries?

One swift blow is enough to bring the subject into a mode where you can handle the situation properly.
9/27/08

MadameX

"I would observe that there was a kid having sex with my kid and I would not use my weapon at all."

You must do it differently in your neck of the woods. I wouldn't really interpret someone STANDING ON MY DAUGHTER'S BED as "a kid having sex with my kid".
9/27/08

ekim941

She is not at age of consent. By Florida law, it was rape.
9/28/08

AngieA

Well I don’t think I would of used a pipe to beat the kid, but I do know if I walked into my daughters room who happened to be 15 years old, in the middle of night, and I knew nothing about her having a boy friend which is beside the point, I am pretty sure I probably would of started swinging at him with whatever was close at hand out of anger as my first thought would be to protect her.
Then if later I found out it was her boyfriend, I would probably start swinging towards her direction next.
9/28/08

earthlingorgeous

but in florida, they were both teenagers so its teens having sex.

TT, take the scene with you it's your daughters room,she might be lying down in bed the "man" standing up naked. Why the hell will I not hit that guy with a pipe and not my daughter? It's my daughter's room and that guy was the invader not my daughter.

But yes Angie I will rag my daughter hard if I find out it was his boyfriend.

9/27/08

@ TangledWeb

An act relating to the protection of persons and property; creating s.
776.013, F.S.; authorizing a person to use force, including deadly
force, against an intruder or attacker in a dwelling, residence, or
vehicle under specified circumstances; creating a presumption that
a reasonable fear of death or great bodily harm exists under certain
circumstances; creating a presumption that a person acts with the
intent to use force or violence under specified circumstances; providing
definitions; amending ss. 776.012 and 776.031, F.S.; providing
that a person is justified in using deadly force under certain circumstances; declaring that a person has no duty to retreat and has the
right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force if the
person is in a place where he or she has a right to be and the force
is necessary to prevent death, great bodily harm, or the commission
of a forcible felony; creating s. 776.032, F.S.; providing immunity
from criminal prosecution or civil action for using deadly force; defining
the term “criminal prosecution”; authorizing a law enforcement
agency to investigate the use of deadly force but prohibiting
the agency from arresting the person unless the agency determines
that there is probable cause that the force the person used was
unlawful; providing for the award of attorney’s fees, court costs,
compensation for loss of income, and other expenses to a defendant
in a civil suit who was immune from prosecution under this section;
providing an effective date.

WHEREAS, the Legislature finds that it is proper for law-abiding people
to protect themselves, their families, and others from intruders and attackers without fear of prosecution or civil action for acting in defense of themselves and others,
--------------------------------------------------------------------
So you had a law-abiding person, A family member and a person who wasn't supposed to be there standing over her buck naked. The sign that he was buck naked and wasn't supposed to be there is enough to bring the father to believe that there was force in play.

So he had the law on his side on the way he reacted, Where the law failed him was that the daughter, Let the boyfriend inside the house.

So tell me again, How did he not follow our law? Again, I said our law, Not your moral law.

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9/27/08

EXZombie

776.031 Use of force in defense of others.—

The person is justified in the use of deadly force only if he or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony. A person does not have a duty to retreat if the person is in a place where he or she has a right to be.
9/27/08

faithsju243

@MPDZombie.....I am on your side of this discussion. The father being startled out of his sleep at 4AM dashed into his daughters room and found what he thought to be a naked intruder who either did harm or was about to harm his daughter. I find no problems with how he reacted to the situation.

It's a shame the kid got hit with a pole and it required 14 stitches but as with most things in life, for every action there is a reaction.

9/27/08

mugshot

@Tangledweb

When talking about a weapon, in the UK a head, fist or foot is also classed as a weapon so that would mean you could not use anything but words against an intruder if that was the case.

I feel that if he had repeatedly hit the naked dude with the pipe then its a problem...as I stated up there somewhere but one single blow I accept as this was done to gain control in his castle without going too far.

I imagine that if anyone saw me in there home without authority (naked or not - If I was naked body with multiple tattoos) they would probably wish to have a weapon close by as Im 185 cm tall, weigh 205 lbs (Im a powerlifter), have a shaved head and a scar 16 cm long on the top of it...I cant imagine someone just asking "Why u in my house man, u best get out before I hit you with my pole" you would probably come up behind me and try to knock me out before I see you! lol

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9/27/08

EXZombie

I don't care if you were 152 cm tall, 100 pounds soaking wet and built like an old man. How would I know what was in your hand. Maybe you were keeping her quiet with a knife.

But yeah, It's important to know what the laws are and I know the UK is more strict about this. The thing is that this guy lives in my State and as stated above, I would of done the same because our law lets us. The only thing you can't do is harm someone as they flee. You shoot someone in the back and you're done for. You have to shoot them square in the middle of the chest for it to be fair defense.

So it's not like we have the right to be brutal.

9/27/08

amitchopra22

girl'sdad was right somewhere, anger kills anybody and self. but might be some other step would have been there.
but girl was not right too, having affair is ok, having sex is k, but y at home, that place can be somewhere else

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9/27/08

@ MPDZombie

You're reading the law incorrectly, perhaps incompletely and have it out of context to make it agreeable to your position. My statement is not my moral law, it is factual.

The key phrase here is "meet force with force"

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9/27/08

EXZombie

Care to explain why it is incorrect? Yes there are various different ways it applies to and yes there is a whole lot of other examples. I was just putting the one that applys to this.

776.031's last section covers exactly how lethal force could be applied.

"The person is justified in the use of deadly force only if he or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony. A person does not have a duty to retreat if the person is in a place where he or she has a right to be."

He had the reason to believe, By the action of him getting a pipe he already showed that those sounds were a threat. When he got into his daughters room and found someone naked who wasn't supposed to be there infront on his daughter......

Bah forget it. Fine the father is a bastard for thinking his daughter was being raped and should of tapped the kid on the shoulder and said, "Hey bud, Do you mind taking your member out of my boyfriendless daughter for a second so we can have a civil talk. Would you like me to get you a Pepsi by the way? I know it's so rude that I stopped you from plowing my daughter."

9/27/08

By the way guys, If you want to make your way onto the internets and find a State of Florida statue book it is fully possible. Just remember that there are various factors in every law that might not apply to the one you are reading as said above..... But sadly you do have to read it, You can't just say no I know how the law works everywhere.

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9/27/08

Sylvia

Why is a 15 year old having sex??!!

Sorry I must be old school,

....a naked man
....15 year old daughter
....its 4AM
.....he heard noises
......human instinct takes over

The father reacted much like any other father might in that situation.
I'm not saying he was right or wrong, but I do understand why it happened this way.

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9/28/08

AngieA

Those are the facts in deed and so yes I also see how that would happened.
9/28/08

earthlingorgeous

exactly

9/27/08

Has nothing to do with the father's motives or reasons.. that is not the issue. The issue is that his use of force was beyond what would of been necessary.

At any rate, the man Raul Colon was not charged

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9/27/08

EXZombie

AGAIN. FOURTEEN STAPLES can come from one simple hit. Falling against a kitchen countertop is enough for fourteen staples.

If the kid was ontop of his daughter while she was making the noises of a beast with two backs there is no reason hitting someone off your daughter is extreme. It's not like he chased him down the block trying to kill him.

You act like the kid had to leave the hospital in a wheelchair. Fourteen staples is enough to be home and eating some Ice Cream at the end of the day.
9/27/08

Sylvia

The way I read the story...the father only hit him one time, and the one time was enough.
9/28/08

earthlingorgeous

yup one big blow of a pipe can cause 14 stitches

9/27/08

bradhart

The whole thing sounds skanky to me from daughter to the father reaction. If he had time to arm himself he had time to listen at the door and find out what was going on. Muffled moans and the entire list of sounds teenagers in heat make ought to have been a pretty good clue as to what was going on. If he didn't know the girl had a boyfriend or that she was sneaking him into the house for a little bump and grind he wasn't being a very attentive parent either.

No matter why he did it, his actions still constitute assault.

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9/27/08

Sylvia

Bradhart, if you had a 15 year old daughter (maybe you do I don't know) would you stand quietly at her door at 4 am after hearing strange noises coming from her room?
9/27/08

EXZombie

It could of been rape. Rape victims tend to go into a mode where they screaming isn't always what happens.

As for the time it took to get armed, It wouldn't take much time in my family. My grandfather always kept a machette blade under his bed when he wasn't using it for things in the backyard.

And Brad, As for the sneaking in, I hope you don't have a daughter cause it's so damn easy to sneak into a house with people in it. What if her room was on the other side of the house or on a different floor? Stuff happens behind parents backs and in their house all the time. Teens are freaking Ninjas.
9/27/08

bradhart

If the father had chose to bust in there when he first heard the noises to make sure his darling daughter was alright and started pounding on the kid with his fists while he was in mid thrust it would be a very different story. That however isn't the story. He looked around for a weapon and decided he was going to beat the hell out of who ever his daughter was getting it on with. I just don't buy he had no idea what the "strange sounds" were.
9/27/08

MadameX

"No matter why he did it, his actions still constitute assault."

This is not accurate. Assault is defined in one of two ways, depending upon the jurisdiction. One is attempted battery. The other involves a threat intended to put someone in fear of imminent harmful contact. This is neither.

Perhaps you meant to say that regardless of the reason, he had committed battery. That might or might not be true, depending upon the definition employed by the jurisdiction in question. In some "without excuse or justification" is a part of the definition of the crime, in which case this was not a battery. In others, it would constitute battery but an affirmative defense would be available which would excuse the action.

9/27/08

Has nothing whatsoever to do with how many staples he got.. personally, I don't care if he killed him or paralyzed him, hit him several times or whatever. My point is that a blow to the head with a pipe was not necessary.. At any rate, he wasn't even f#@king her when it happened, he was standing.

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9/27/08

EXZombie

Alright Tangled, So lets say he was standing but had a knife. Do you know what a body blow would do to me? It wouldn't get me to drop the knife thats for sure.

I see nothing wrong with hitting someone in the head. Lets say the father was a weakling. Or lets change the script to someone else who may of been weak and say it was her mother that had to go see who it was. Would she be wrong for hitting him in the head? As I said above, A body blow isn't gonna do anything to stun me by a normal man, Why would it from a woman?

I know this isn't the case where it was a rapist but what if it was. A blow to the head would of been enough time to get the father, daughter and mother to safety. A body blow would of meant a struggle if the rapist didn't run.

Do you understand what i'm saying bud? You gotta forget that you know it was a teen boyfriend because the father didn't know who he has, what he had or what he could do if he just said "Hello, Please get the hell out"
9/27/08

MadameX

" At any rate, he wasn't even f#@king her when it happened, he was standing."

Which makes him look less like a social guest and more like an intruder.

9/27/08

MadameX

I'm really shocked at the responses in this thread. Someone forwarded this news article to me the day it was first published with the note "Why was this guy arrested?" The only possibility I could come up with was that they didn't believe that he didn't know the kid. I'm not aware of any jurisdiction in which his actions would not have been justified as against an intruder standing on his teenage daughter's bed. I am also not aware of any jurisdiction in which reasonable mistake as to the person having been an intruder would not have justified his action. It is absolutely clear that, if the situation unfolded as he says, he committed no crime.

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9/27/08

bradhart
9/28/08

earthlingorgeous

and also at a state of half-awake half-asleep you really just act on mere instinct

9/27/08

voodooKobra

A lead pipe is a bit much. If he thought someone had broken into his house, I can see why he would use it, though.

But people are liars. It's possible that he knew about this boyfriend and he was angry at the young man for deflowering his daughter.

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9/27/08

EXZombie

Could of been a gun...... That could of been a worst outcome

9/27/08

bradhart

A lot of you are missing the point of this little exercise.

The kid had his head bashed in with a pipe. It doesn't matter why. He simply was conked over the head and sent to the hospital. Those are enough grounds for an arrest.

These are cops who did their job and did it right. They should be applauded for it. Unlike a fair number of republican politicians of late they understand the law is the law and you enforce and follow it without pride or prejudice. When there is evidence of a crime you make an arrest and let the prosecutor decide what to do with it.

I doubt the father will be convicted of anything, and even doubt it will go to a jury trial on assault charges. That however isn't a call the cops get to make. A good cop follows the law, and doesn't play prosecutor, judge and jury while they are at it. That is not their job. They arrested the father and that was the right thing to do.

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9/27/08

werelax

They could have arrested the kid for trespass or criminal trespass just as easily as the dad, based strictly on what happened.
9/27/08

bradhart

It would only be trespass in most places if the daughter didn't let him in, and from this it appears she did more than let him into her house...

9/27/08

Brad. I'm glad you feel that the law is right because....
-----------------------------------------------------------
DELTONA - Prosecutors won't pursue charges against a Deltona father who allegedly struck a naked intruder in his daughter's bedroom, not knowing it was his daughter's boyfriend.

The State Attorney's Office decided not to charge Raul Colon, 45, for hitting the 15-year-old intruder with a pipe.

Colon told investigators that on Sept. 11, around 4:15 a.m., he heard strange noises in his home and found the naked man in his daughter's bedroom. Colon didn't know who the man was, chased him, and struck him, before the teenager fled.

Afterwards, it was discovered that the intruder was his daughter's boyfriend and she had let him into the house, without her father's knowledge. The teenagers had been dating for about 18 months, but she never told her father about the relationship, according to a report.

State Attorney John Tanner said the case is being dropped because a father has a right to defend his home against a stranger and has the right to use reasonable force against such an intruder.
---------------------------------------------

A FATHER HAS A RIGHT TO DEFEND HIS HOME AGAINST A STRANGER.

So it is law after all Brad.

And Tangled, Is the law right in the way they handled it now or did you change your mind when you said, "he has a legal obligation to comply and follow the laws surrounding the use of deadly force"?

Anyway, I agree with you guys that repeat strikes are abusive but this isn't the case.

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9/27/08

bradhart

You completely missed the point. The arrest had nothing to do with guilt or innocence or defending his daughter. It isn't the cops job to decide whether or not the father was right or wrong. Their job was to decide if the evidence they had was enough to make an arrest, it is a judgment call that we can't second guess without more of the story. Since the officers aren't being reprimanded, the arrest sounds like it met the local departments standard of proof. They did their job. I would like to say end of story, but it isn't. Just because he won't be charged, doesn't mean he isn't guilty, only the prosecutors couldn't prove an assault case, or backed down for political reasons. I rather hope it was the first reason than the second, but that happens often enough that it should be mentioned.

This isn't about whether he was right or wrong it is about the arrest which was the right thing to do for the cops involved.
9/27/08

EXZombie

I'm sorry man, I wouldn't be able to accept that if I were the father.

I would take that as a slap to the face, I find someone who is in my house that I have a right to defend myself and others (As noted) and you take me away in cuffs? If it happened off the property then it becomes assault, Simple as that. The only reason they made a big deal about it was because of the age. It had nothing to do with the hit to the head or the defense of his daughter.

If he was 18 the cops wouldn't of arrested the father in my opinion. Every cop is different though but if you want I'll ask those who I know if they ever ran into or heard of such a case with a young adult being assaulted if you want. Or maybe what they would do in their shoes? Since the cops reaction is more important than a logical choice.

The end of the line is that cops arn't perfect. They have to write red line memos all the time for messing up and these cops most likely just didn't know what to do. Maybe they didn't want to risk being wrong. It doesn't mean that they weren't wrong.

Thats the thing, Every cop has a choice to what extent they really want to take something. Sometimes they're right, Sometimes they're wrong, Sometimes it's blurred down the middle.

I'm sorry if you find me wrong but I just find it insulting that this man could of gone to jail for assaulting a "minor" with "deadly force". The law is complex/flawed at times and alot of people can be lost in the system for doing something that they had the right to do.
9/27/08

timethief

@bradhart
It isn't the cops job to decide whether or not the father was right or wrong. Their job was to decide if the evidence they had was enough to make an arrest
I agree.

Note to self: Don't waste your time weighing in on these controversial postings where only part of the facts are known, and where all that is known has been derived from news reports.
9/27/08

MadameX

It's certainly true that police often arrest people based on incomplete information and it later turns out there is no basis for charges. Had he simply been arrested and then not charged there would have been little to which to react. What seemed to me worthy of discussion was the number of people who seemed to feel passionately that if you thought your child was under attack by a naked stranger standing on her bed, it was inappropriate to act to protect her.
9/27/08

bradhart

X> He wasn't charged, only arrested. There is also nothing to say the prosecutors didn't believe him guilty too only that they couldn't disprove his story of he was a man protecting his property. Which if you look at the news of this online is what he claimed. He didn't claim to defend his daughter, only his property, which makes him just a real stand up kind of guy. For him the daughter seems as much property as the couch.

9/27/08

werelax

I have no problem with what the dad did.

Since we don't know the detail of what happened at the scene when the cops arrived hard to evaluate. It could be the cops walk in the girls screaming my dad killed my boyfriend, the dad when confronted is belligerent, the cops call an ambulance arrest him, telling each other "lets take him to the station and let someone else figure all this out."

[reply]

9/27/08

thewebtechreviews

even if he didn't know him, beating him with a pipe shouldn't be the first thing to do, people need to realize force cannot solve anything

so as much as i think a dad should protect his daughter, that's not the right thing to do

[reply]

9/27/08

MadameX

"people need to realize force cannot solve anything"

Hm. So what if he'd been right. If, for instance, a violent intruder had been standing over his daughter on the immediate verge of doing her harm, you don't think his use of force would have solved that?
9/27/08

EXZombie

This nation is becoming soft, I swears.....

You can't depend on the law to defend you and many a time you gotta put it into your own hands. That used to be the way.

Criminals love people like us, We make it too easy for them to catch us off guard.

9/27/08

roentarre

He should not commit another crime to respond to another

[reply]

9/27/08

EXZombie

Gun at your husbands or wifes direction, You have a gun in your hand.....

Option A - Shoot the mothaflubba

Option B - Order him to put the gun down at which point he shoots you because you don't believe in commiting a crime

Option C - Drop the gun, Do nothing, Get shot too.

You are commiting a crime because in your terms what he did isn't defense even though the law says it is. So you shooting that gun will go against your own words.

Buddy, I'd commit a "crime" any day of the week to save your life and I don't even know you.

9/27/08

Shelives2write

That would be hard for me. But generally, I'm not a violent person. I try to take the calm route- but if I seen a guy messing with my teenage daughter I would probably be more angry at my daughter for being so irresponsible. But then again, the jerk should know that 15 year old's should be off limit to sex acts. I guess I would prosecute him, and make my daughter be tested for STDS and pregnancy. It's a sad epidemic.

[reply]

9/27/08

ekim941

I have a 15 year old daughter but I don't sleep with a pipe (That part I found kinda strange).

[reply]

9/27/08

EXZombie

His surname is Colon, A Latin surname, I can't speak for all of them but it isn't that odd where I was raised to keep a weapon by your bed. Just saying that it isn't odd or unlikely.

For all I know he could of gone looking for a pipe, But why would you have a lead pipe close to your room or even in your house?

Edit: By the way, I have Colon's in my family tree and the ones i'm close to keep a "form of metal" near their bed.
9/27/08

ekim941

As A father, I doubt he went looking for anything.
If I suspect trouble, I head straight for the kids room. I don't stop and look for weapons.

I think it is excessive but the guy knows his daughter is 15 and legally can't consent to sex in FL, so this was rape.

Sure, he should have asked the boy to show some ID before he clubbed him but then you would all be complaining that the man allowed his daughter to be raped or approved of her having sex.

It's getting to where you can't even beat a guy for coming in your house and raping your daughter. That's the sad part.

9/27/08

acousticguitarist

i think there is a serious communication issue there

[reply]

9/27/08

offendedblogger

Awwwwwww, he should have just given the boy a condom and a pat on the head.

Poor kid.

[reply]

9/27/08

acousticguitarist

It would be nice if the girl had been able to say "Dad I've got a boyfriend". And the dad said, "Oh no my little girls growing up....ok now we better talk some sensible stuff because I realise you are growing into a young woman, and although I'm not ready for it, unfortunately you are. And here are some guidelines"
9/27/08

ekim941

True but 4am with a naked dude in your bed might not be the best way to start that conversation.
9/27/08

offendedblogger

It would have been nice if Hitler had a soft spot for Jews, too.
9/27/08

ekim941

Oh no you didn't.
9/27/08

offendedblogger

I soooo did!

You can't change history and we can all sit here and say 'he shoulda' or 'if only' but really, what the hell good is it doing??

Hmmmm???

It sure isn't curing cancer or cooling down the planet.

Priorities people.
9/27/08

ekim941

Well, it's a debate. Gives people something to argue about.

I think that no matter what the guy did, folks would find fault and be outraged.
9/27/08

offendedblogger

Well, he IS a man. Bwahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!

I mean, yes, I think you are right.
9/27/08

acousticguitarist

ekim

I'm not talking about 4 am, I'm talking about the father daughter relationship preceding this mess
9/27/08

ekim941

This is definitely not the way I raise my daughter. Hind sight is 20/20 and I'm not sure what I would do if I walked in on this mess at 4am.
9/27/08

timethief

I know where you are coming from. I suppose it's possible that a father, who sleeps with a pipe could be the kind of dad that actually communicated well with his daughter. But what do we know about their relationship?
9/28/08

earthlingorgeous

well robbery incident in florida is high that's why the man had a pipe near I guess

9/27/08

timethief

Picture a naked 15 year old boy, who for the sake of argument is 6 feet tall or shorter, standing on the girl's bed, which would add about 22 inches of height to the level of where his head would be situated above the bed.
Then picture a father, who for the sake of argument is 6 feet tall or shorter, holding a pipe in his hand and bashing the boy on the head.
Really?
Perhaps the father was extremely tall and the 15 year old boy was extremely short and perhaps the bed was not on a box spring but was flush with the floor.
The point is that we don't have the facts here. We have only a news report to speculate on.

[reply]

9/27/08

Wow the things you have to go through just to get a little action.
You're sure taking a huge risk. Makes me want to stay home, lock myself in the bathroom
and play with my stuffed lizards a bit more, while touching myself. lmao

I bet that poor kid wishes he stayed home to touch himself.

[reply]

9/27/08

ekim941

I didn't think the term "Jailbait" meant the father goes to jail.
9/27/08

offendedblogger

For the sake of argument, were these lizards stuffed by a taxidermist and if so, did you beat them with a pipe to punish them for something??
9/27/08

Jeunelle

I beat them alright but not with a pipe
9/27/08

offendedblogger

OH SNAP!!
9/27/08

timethief

While were at it are you probing those lizards?
And exactly how tall are they? ... lol
9/27/08

ekim941

The kid is 15, he had sex and got a cool scar. He'll be bragging about both when he goes back to school.
9/27/08

timethief

I find it hard to believe that a 15 year old girl who has a father who sleeps with a pipe, would have sex for the first time in her own bed while her father was at home. Maybe she wasn't very bright?

oops! edit age: 15 not 14
Thanks ekim for the heads up on the age.
9/27/08

offendedblogger

OR... he is brain damaged now.
9/27/08

timethief

Yeah that poor kid could have concussion or even brain damage.
Meanwhile what about the girl? It was obviously the boy's fault, right? She didn't have any sexual intentions when she let him into her house, and then into her bedroom at 4AM. She just did that so he could look at her dolls (stuffed lizards), right?
9/27/08

ekim941

Wait, now the girl is 14?
9/27/08

Jeunelle

Hold up now don't bring my stuffed lizards into this.
I have only the cleanest finest stuffed lizards money can buy.
They come with their own full body condom.
My lizards even self destruct after use, I mean high-tech.
9/27/08

ekim941

The boy was the intruder, the girl was at home. I can almost envision her warning him what her Dad would do if he found out.
9/27/08

timethief

@ekim
I think if you look at the OP it states something that leads me to believe the girl and boy went out together and then returned to the girl's house.

"The boy's family said the boy had picked his daughter up and that the man should have recognized him. The man says that he did not even know his daughter had a boyfriend."

But, as I said before, we have no facts just a news report.
9/27/08

ekim941

True. Now ask yourself if you believe that the father allowed his 15 year old daughter to stay out with the boy until 4am or if he came back after the father went to sleep?

It is hard to recognize anyone at 4am in a dark room when you suspect a threat.

9/27/08

@TT...All the time, while beating them.

@ekim...I'm sure the kid will live but poor thing, that's not a memory I would want
for my 1st sex session. I mean that's battery.

[reply]

9/27/08

offendedblogger

I am calling PETA!

9/27/08

I hope they give him a life supply of breast milk
and Ben & Jerry's Ice Cream.

[reply]

9/27/08

I'm calling Palin

[reply]

9/27/08

offendedblogger

I am going to lob a personal attack on you right now, then let you read it, then come back and edit my comment to say something all nice and non-offensive!!

So there.

Ooops almost ran out of time to edit!!
9/27/08

timethief

@jeunelle
Palin! That's hilarious.

9/27/08

offendedblogger

I'm hungry, who's cooking???

[reply]

9/27/08

ekim941

I made steak Marsala and garlic mashed potatoes.

Tofurkey for you vegans
9/28/08

earthlingorgeous

yeah me too goin to have bfast now

9/27/08

Who's cooking....I am...

Chef Jeunelle's Rusted Pipe Soup.
Ghetto Style

Water
Rusted Pipe
Salt
Pepper
Garlic

Simmer that shit till it's hot
Serve over sole of shoe
Serves 4

[reply]

9/27/08

offendedblogger

Uh, I'll take what ekim's cooking.
9/27/08

ekim941

See, it's the alcohol.
Chelle likes that
9/27/08

acousticguitarist

tofu thanks ekim

9/27/08

The Chef has Left
Goodnight

[reply]

9/27/08

Hangingonahyphen

Where I live this is perfectly legal. In fact even if he killed the daughter and her lover. It would fall under the penal provision "death under exceptional circumstances". I think it's article 247 of the rpc. The rationale is to vindicate the family honor and excuse the father for being rightfully outraged. I don't know if this is good or bad. That's just how it is. The circumstances fall squarely within the application of the law since they were having sex in the father's home and she is still in his guardianship, I supposed...

[reply]

9/27/08

MadameX

Where do you live?

9/27/08

blackzero85

jeez... pre marital sex is so damn wrong. I am with that poor dad side for this one.

[reply]

9/27/08

Hangingonahyphen

yeah... can't blame the poor guy... so don't do at HER house... a little respect saves lives... hahaha...
9/27/08

acousticguitarist

that's scary, would you beat another human being for having sex? I'm sickened by that comment because you are not there in the moment of anger when it happened and you can stand back and say such a thing. You can't be serious

Pre maritial sex is a very normal, very healthy thing to explore

I find it appalling that you would say that you are with the dad

Hopefully if you have children you'll learn to value human life a little more, as the boy that was beaten was also someone elses precious child.

As stated earlier, the main issue for me is that the father and daughter had such a poor relationship that he never even knew she had a boyfriend. The father has severe problems and I feel sorry that the daughter was born into a family of such violence
9/27/08

acousticguitarist

And also, yes the boy needs to accountable and should have had more common sense than sneaking around early in the morning bonking a 15 year old girl. But that is another issue

9/27/08

AmmoBob

I would have called out, ran to the room, turned on the light to see what the hell was going on. Then, I would have stuck my .45 in the punks face and made him beg for me not to shoot his ass. The wife would have been calling the cops at the same time.

After the cops hauled his ass out, we would have a serious discussion with the daughter to find out what was going on.

However, this is only 50% hypothetical... My daughter is almost 25 now and we have always had great communications between all of us, so I no longer have to worry about this type of nonsense. But the .45 in the punks face is one of those things you can take to bank.

Bottom line, the man was right to do what he did and the shithead kid should consider himself lucky he only received a few stitches and was not shot dead on the spot.

[reply]

9/27/08

offendedblogger

I agree with you, of course. I'm sorry but anyone who thinks they can be in my house uninvited and sex up my underage daughter better be wearing a bullet proof vest during the visit.

By the way, I just had to shoot my billy goat. He broke his leg. It was traumatic. For him, mostly.
9/27/08

acousticguitarist

I'm totally with you guys that the boy shouldn't be there,

but the idea of bashing another human being makes me sick

But the real issue is the father daughter relationship not the sex
9/27/08

acousticguitarist

But it would be more serious if the guy was 30 or 20 and the girl 15, that would be a real issue. the fact that they are both in the same age zone makes it more acceptable, kids explore and why not, didn't you?
9/27/08

timethief

I'm totally with you guys that the boy shouldn't be there,
but the idea of bashing another human being makes me sick
But the real issue is the father daughter relationship not the sex

@acousticguitarist
I feel the same way as you do. I have done a lot of caregiving and the girls who were my charges were very close to me. We discussed everything under the sun including sexuality and birth control, which they also were taught in schoolroom clases. I feel confident in saying that it's unlikely that they would have become sexually active without their parent(s) and me knowing that they were headed in that direction.

If such a situation like this had occurred in their own home or in mine the scenario would have been quite different from the one in this news story. We don't sleep with pipes and guns and we are not physically aggressive people. I believe we would have allocated the responsibility equally between the boy and the girl. (We don't suffer from the 1950's delusion that it's all the boy's fault up here in Canada.) We would have demanded that both kids put on their clothes, and we would have called the other parents up and arranged for a meeting. In other words, there would have been no assault and no police involvement.
9/27/08

MadameX

So then, Timethief, if a situation like this had occurred in their homes or in yours, and it HAD been an intruder, the girl would be dead, hm? Funny thing to be proud of.
9/27/08

timethief

No, I'm such a light sleeper and we have such in your face dogs that it's unlikely that anyone could have entered our property by unlocking the front gate, and driven or walked all the way down to the house, without the dogs setting off a warning and the light sensors putting on the floodlights. Our dogs are trained to bark even at us whenever a door or sliding window opens either upstairs, where we live, or on the ground floor (business and studio). Opening the lock on any of our doors or windows causes an electronic warning too that is audible and I have never been able to sleep through it. Also my husband is a fairly light sleeper too. I actually think I would have had the ability to listen at the bedroom door and determine in advance of opening it if there really was an intruder.
9/27/08

kat822

"I feel confident in saying that it's unlikely that they would have become sexually active without their parent(s) and me knowing that they were headed in that direction."

Didn't Sarah Palin say that at one time???....I think it's ridiculous for any parent or caregiver to assume that...unless you are with a child 24/7 you can't know that.
9/28/08

timethief

wrong spot

9/27/08

wehireu

They should both do a little time for complete lack of common sense.

[reply]

9/27/08

4thfloormarketing

Simple solution, beat both of them for being stupid. I'm a teenager, and I manage to not step on fathers' toes, and when I am a father, I won't beat people with a pipe. Common sense.

[reply]

9/28/08

irisiku

it's pure parent's instinct. assuming that it was pitch black in the room, can you imagine the thoughts running through the father's face seeing a naked man/boy/watever beside his daughter's bed? How many fathers our there assume their girl is having pre-marital sex? So of course the first thought that went through his mind is 'rape'. He did it because he wanted to protect his daughter.

I don't care if he is teen or not. nowadays teens are violent. Look at what happened to kidnap cum murder victim, Ying Xin in my country. 3 out of the 4 damn murderers are juveniles.

The boy is lucky to only get the wound in the head.

[reply]

9/28/08

rfburnhertz

Yeah,
I'd beat him.
I'd not use a pipe but I'd bloody him to be sure.

[reply]

9/28/08

Hangingonahyphen

I'm sorry if my comment makes some people sick. But didn't I say I don't claim that what the father did was right or wrong? I was just trying to tell what the law in my country says when a situation like this happens. The father can justify his act and escape punishment, that's all I'm saying... I didn't say it was right or wrong... And I definitely did not say I am all for bashing people in the head...

[reply]

9/28/08

kboyer

If the dad hit him once or twice in surprise maybe but more than that I don't think so

[reply]

9/28/08

Nomadic

Violence is wrong.

[reply]

9/28/08

UseZerNamE

The man shouldn't have beaten the poor kid, but I don't blame him for being startled.

It's easy for us to say that he was in the wrong, but if you have no clue that your kid was seeing someone, and you wake up in the night to what you think is your kid being raped, what would you do?

[reply]

9/28/08

ernestlobo

Its definitely not rape.

I wouldnt blame the dad either. Crunch moment, he thought his daughter was being raped, so he attacked. Unless of course, he knew they were both doing willingly and still took a swing at the boy anyway, thats unacceptable.

[reply]

9/28/08

rfburnhertz

ernestlobo, why would it be unacceptable to give the kid the smack down if he knew his daughter was a willing participant?

Take the pipe out of it, if the dad walked in and gave the boy a few nice punches to the gut and head... why is that wrong?

I'd deal with my daughter after I smacked that kid down, but I'd deal with him right away and I would do so with at the least a light a** kicking.

His daughter, even though she was willingly engaged, was in fact still being violated. Raped no, violated yes.

If my daughter is being violated I'm beating the kid down and that would be done in her defense even though she may not understand that to be the case.
9/28/08

MadameX

"ernestlobo, why would it be unacceptable to give the kid the smack down if he knew his daughter was a willing participant?"

Well, for starters, it would be a crime...if that matters to you.
9/28/08

ernestlobo

"Violated"???

I'm not sure what you mean by violated. As far as i know, violation, although not as severe as rape, IS pretty much invading someone physically against their will.

In this case, its two teenagers having sex. Both of them violated the LAW, but I strongly disagree if you're saying the boy violated the girl.

They're both 15 year old teenagers, its not that the boy was 26. In that case, I'd probably hand him a punch for not using his common sense, him being a mature adult. Its a pretty different scenario in this case. They're both kids, and I dont think bloodying a 15 year old with a weapon is a sane solution.

9/28/08

DrowseyMonkey

Good grief. Reading some of these comments I'd say less people should be having kids.

Anyway, the idea that he thought it was rape is ridiculous. Like in that moment his daughter didn't say anything.

He was mad some boy was having sex with his teenage daughter and he beat the crap out of the kid out of anger. Hardly a reasonable response. Sure, reasonable if you go around like an ape reacting to things without thought. But not reasonable for a responsible adult.

Why is it that more people are upset about teenagers having sex yet not that upset about the violence???????

I find that insane!

[reply]

9/28/08

MadameX

"
Why is it that more people are upset about the teenage sex yet not upset about the violence???????"

I haven't seen that at all, and if there was any indication that the father actually knew what was going on and hit the kid in the head with a pipe, I'd agree with you entirely. I haven't seen any such suggestion. The original news reports that I saw reported his misunderstanding of the situation as uncontroverted, and although the boy's family apparently later said he "should" have known what was going on, I haven't heard any suggestion that his behavior in the moment indicated that he did. If he did, of course he was in the wrong. But if he didn't, if he reacted based on the assumption that every source I've seen seems to agree that he did, then I think that he reacted in the way that any parent would instinctively. I can promise you that if I walked into my daughter's room and saw a strange, naked man standing over her in the middle of the night, I wouldn't put her life at risk by taking time to politely inquire as to his intentions.
9/28/08

DrowseyMonkey

give me a break, lol.

Like he's going to say he was just mad and beat the kid out of anger. You're a lawyer ... what's the chances of that happening?

Of course he's going to say he thought it was rape and is all apologetic and reasonable now.

lol@politely & quietly inquire as to his intentions. OMG...rolling my eyes now.
9/28/08

ekim941

I disagree. I think the guy was wrong for having a pipe handy but it sounds like he hit the boy out of fear, not anger.

It's hard to tell 15 year old boys from grown men these days even more so when you first wake up.

My thought is that he walked in on what appeared to be a grown man raping his daughter and freaked out.
9/28/08

MadameX

"Like he's going to say he was just mad and beat the kid out of anger. You're a lawyer ... what's the chances of that happening?"

That he'd admit it afterward? You'd be surprised. People who feel their actions were justified are often quite willing to talk about it, to the chagrin of those of us later charged with representing them. Beyond that, it seems unlikely that a man enraged enough that someone was having sex with his teenage daughter would attack the boy SILENTLY. It seems quite likely that if that were the case, he would have shouted something in the moment that could have been used against him later...but I haven't seen any indication of that in any reports, even those coming from the boy's family.

I can't help but notice that the people who are most skeptical that this man reacted out of genuine fear and instinct to protect his child seem to be those who aren't parents. Perhaps it's hard to believe because it's hard to imagine, before you're in that situation, how deep and instinctive the need to protect your children is. I know that before I had children I would have said that I knew that instinct based on other relationships, but once I became a mother I quickly learned that I couldn't even have begun to imagine.
9/28/08

DrowseyMonkey

So what, now we have to have 2 sets of laws,one for us reasonable people without children and one for parents who act over the top out of love for their kiddies? Huh?
9/28/08

MadameX

The law is clear: if the man reasonably believed that his daughter was in danger, he committed no crime. If he reacted in anger because he didn't want her having sex, he did.

What dismays me is the fact that so many people take it as a given that his actions were out of line. Pretend for a minute that he'd been RIGHT. If a strange adult man had broken into his house and he'd found that man standing naked over his teenage daughter in the middle of the night, would you still think that his actions had been out of line?
9/28/08

ekim941

MadameX, I'm not a lawyer, I'm a parent. I have never been in this situation. However, my daughter suffered from night terrors a few years ago. Several times I woke up to her blood curdling screams and bolted into her room. In those split seconds many things went through my mind, none of them were good. I was prepared to beat someone if I had to.
9/28/08

MadameX

Mike, my question was directed to Drowsey--I'm right with you.
9/28/08

DrowseyMonkey

That's a ridiculous hypothetical question. It could have been Ed McMahan giving her a winning cheque, or a space alien breaking in to probe her. BUT IT WASN'T.

He was pissed some dude was in bed with his daughter. He beat the crap out of him over teenage sex.
9/28/08

MadameX

There's nothing ridiculous about it: it's what the man says he believed. If you don't believe him, that's fine, but there's nothing ridiculous about asking what people who are so violently opposed to his actions believe would have been the appropriate course of action BELIEVING AS HE SAYS HE DID.

And, for the record, I've seen no indication that he "beat the crap out of him". All indications are that he struck him exactly once.
9/28/08

ekim941

"He was pissed some dude was in bed with his daughter. He beat the crap out of him over teenage sex."

I must have read a different article. I have talked to many other fathers of teenage daughters and have yet to meet one that is blind to the possibility that his daughter is having sex.

Ed McMahon knocks first and comes during the day.

9/28/08

susan19843

well i think that he was wrong to do what he did if they were having safe sex then he should count himself lucky or he could have just kicked the boy out he didn't have to beat the crap out of the lad he deserve to go to jail for it

[reply]

9/28/08

faithsju243

I think some of those not in support of the dad's actions are missing understanding his intent. The way I read the article the dad felt as though someone was attacking his daughter, I need to know what the dad should have done if not attack. And just think if this was in fact an intruder and the dad just walked in calmly and asked what's going on here?

[reply]

9/29/08

acousticguitarist

I'm sickened by it.
9/29/08

faithsju243

@acousticguitarist.....what about his behavior is so sickening? And for the record I am not seeing any suggestions of things he should have done that would make much sense if this kid was in fact an intruder.

It is sad that it was just a kid trying to get his jollies with his girlfriend (by no stretch am I dismissing her role in the situation) but for every action in life there is a reaction. Some of them aren't pretty and actually are quite painful. In this case the boyfriend, daughter and father learned some hard lessons.
9/29/08

acousticguitarist

This is very complex. If the guy is a n intruder, no doubt the intruder would be dealt with in a certain way. I can't pass judgement on the events, I wasn't there, nor was anyone else. It all sounds a bit weird, but for me bashing another human /being with a pipe is insane, the circumstances sound a bit odd, especially with it being the girls boyfriend. Wouldn't any normal human being (in this case the girl) say that it was her boyfriend.

I don't bah people with iron bars, nor would any other person that is sane bash another human being with an iron bar. The fact that people at blog catalog say it is OK to bash someone with a pipe is bar far the most absurd, sickening thing I have encountered in years. and pray that it never happens to your family, your children or whoever if they have sex with their boyfriend or girlfriend. If it was done in anger over someone having sex with his daughter, the guy belongs in a mental institution. If it was done out of protection of his daughter, which no doubt he loves and wishes to protect under all circumstances, I question at what point does a human being stop belting another human being.

The guy sleeps with a pipe, this in itself is a little unusual. But who am I to judge. But I find the attitude of people saying it's ok to belt another human being so offensive that I never wish to encounter a number of these bloggers here ever again.

Don't bother responding, I won't be back here to BC, again as this sort of mentality is the most disgusting stuff I've heard in years.
9/29/08

MadameX

"The guy sleeps with a pipe, this in itself is a little unusual. But who am I to judge. But I find the attitude of people saying it's ok to belt another human being so offensive that I never wish to encounter a number of these bloggers here ever again."

Tony, this has me wondering whether there is a cultural gap here that accounts for the difference in perspective. I know that in my communications with people from your homeland, I universally found them to be good-hearted--at least, from the perspective to which I'm accustomed. I've often said that the meanest Australian I ever met was at least as nice as the nicest American I know.

In some areas of the United States, it is not at all unusual for people to sleep with a weapon close at hand, and that's because it is not at all unusual for people in those neighborhoods to be victimized by home invasions, mugged on the street, their children shot at as they walk to and from school, etc. When you live in an environment in which it's often kill or be killed, things tend to look a bit different. Maybe they wouldn't to you...I don't know. Some people remain pacifists to the point that they think it's better to let their own families be harmed than to harm the aggressors, and maybe you'd be one of those. But as much as I don't know the answer to that question, I suspect that you don't, either, if you haven't lived under those circumstances.
9/29/08

EXZombie

"For me bashing another human /being with a pipe is insane, the circumstances sound a bit odd, especially with it being the girls boyfriend."

He didn't know she had a boyfriend. And someone other than your daughters sounds at four in the morning is already odd. As for the pipe, A metal baton can also do 14 staples worth of damage. I have one with me at all times and have used it as defense before. Couple times to scare off people with blunt weapons and knives, No impact. One time I had to knock a box cutter out of a drunks hand though.

"Wouldn't any normal human being (in this case the girl) say that it was her boyfriend."

Note: In Florida rapists have been known to sneak into houses and rape young victims, As I noted in one post one time it happened in a room where two sisters were sleeping. Thats how far it can go.

"The fact that people at blog catalog say it is OK to bash someone with a pipe is bar far the most absurd"

Again, 14 staples and my baton could do the same damage. You make it sound like he's hitting someone with a piece of wood with a nail on the end.

"I question at what point does a human being stop belting another human being."

Again, People make it sound like he sat ontop of the kid UFC style and beat him. The kid ran out of the house. As for human beings, Look at how many Church Groups and Peace Keepers get killed around the world even while they promote peace.

9/28/08

Educationblogs

There were more civil and safer ways to resolve this issue.

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9/28/08

paup1

well.. if it happened in the Philippines, it would be very likely that the dad would beat him also (but by fist) or they'd be forced to a 'shotgun marriage'..

The Philippines is generally still conservative and majority being Catholics sees that sex should be done after marriage...the people specially in the rural areas will not tolerate such acts...

'shotgun marriage' was coined in the 70's or earlier when a man is forced to marriage by the bride's parents holding a shotgun during the ceremony.. specially when a man impregnates a woman out of marriage...

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9/28/08

josephgelb

damn conservatives people should be able to have sex at any age. religion is made up you foolz(dad people in story)

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9/28/08

parentconsensus

for more weirdness to discuss, check out thos discussion: www.blogcatalog.com/discuss/entry/teen-plans-moms-murder-to-get-boob-job-fo...

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9/28/08

janizarzagon

He should put behind bars.

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9/28/08

MadameX

So if you came upon a strange man you believed to be attacking someone in your family you'd...what? Write him a note and ask him to desist?

9/28/08

mizhelena

when i returned home with my bf, pregnant at 15, all my dad could say was why? then quickly arranged the wedding lol

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9/29/08

Wow..... Just wow..... I ignore this topic for a day and it is still on fire.

Ok well I gotta say this then. I asked a police officer the other night what he would do if he was sent to something like this what would be his reaction. He said "I don't know. If the father really didn't know that it was the girls boyfriend I wouldn't arrest him. Theres other cops though that could take it different. It also depends on how the father was acting"

Anyway, About the people saying about how kids should have sex at whatever age, That isn't the issue at hand. That's really up to the parents, Not some bloggers.

As for the father being pissed that his daughter was having sex, If he didn't know his daughter had a boyfriend how was he supposed to know she was having sex?

AND AS FOR THE PEOPLE SAYING VIOLENCE ISN'T THE WAY OR HE WAS USING TOO MUCH FORCE: Guess what, He was following the law. I'm sorry if he wasn't following your morals but guess what, Your morals could get a person killed. I'm really wondering how many of those who say that he shouldn't of used force have been in the line of danger.

Ok ok, I know.... I'm being silly. Zombie what kind of danger is there in someone being in your house without you knowing at Four A.M in your daughters room where no one is normally but my daughter. Gah, Thank you guys for being able to shine the bright light on it. I am being a silly goose.

Let me ask you guys a question. I'm 6'3" and a big mofo, I wouldn't suprise you if I was lurking around your house at three in the morning making strange noises while naked right? I'm just asking because you know, I tend to want to avoid people who aim for the head. The fact that you find it silly to bring a weapon to weird noises would also be a plus. I swear, You guys would be the best people to take a bite out of.

Thank you friends, Happy Snacking.

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9/29/08

"Tony, this has me wondering whether there is a cultural gap here that accounts for the difference in perspective."

Yeah it seems like alot of people seem to not be used to bad things happening in their area. I live in a good area now, Middle Classed Hispanics pretty much and normally it's crime free here. The worst you'll get is a "Green" house nearby. I wasn't always so lucky though, Growing up my mom was a single parent and we lived in the ghettos most of the time just blocks from the projects. Break-ins, Random Violence (Many times a wrong look is all it took), Shootings and just crime in general was a norm. Down here even in Sunny Miami we have a place like that. It's an abused part of Miami that gets no help. It's called Overtown, F.K.A Colored Town and it used to be a popular place for tourists to get mugged/killed since it's easy to take a wrong turn on the way to tourist spots and Hotels. The most famous being a German Couple.

I remember one time a Trucker ran out of gas at 2 in the morning and came to me asking for help. I let him use my phone and since I didn't know where one was I flagged down a cop car to ask them where one was. They laughed as they said "That's in overtown, But I wouldn't walk over there until the sun comes out if you want to make it out safe". The trucker was from out of town and I guess amazed that they were talking about it like an old guy talking about a haunted road or house. Oh and just incase you're wondering, It's not so much a "racist" thing on the cops part because the trucker and cop were both black. It was more about him not being from the area and would be seen as a mark/threat.

So yeah, Make sure to bring your GPS and study up on areas if you visit Sunny Florida. All it takes is one wrong turn and our streets don't make any sense.

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9/29/08

MadameX

Not sure whether you know this or not, MPD, but Tony lives in Australia. A few of the other strenuous objectors are also non-Americans: both TimeThief and DrowseyMonkey are Canadian.
9/29/08

EXZombie

Interesting indeed. Many times when I've run into tourists they really do seem to not know what to expect.

I remember early this year while at work being asked many times for directions and when the small talk broke in about the area (Little Havana) they'd bring up how they couldn't imagine anyone walking around here at night. While I admit that it Little Havana is poor and the MS13 gang (Search it) is starting to find it's way there, It's still perfectly safe to walk at during the night. I know, I would watch old ladies and kids walk by the area all the time while doing graveyard shifts.

Now if they looked at that area and worried it had crime writen all over it, Overtown would of had them scared out of their wits when they saw their first crackhead swinging a tree branch around while holding a blade heading their way. True sight by the way.

Before I forget, If you wanna see how the crime is in Orlando, Here you go: www.orlandosentinel2.com/data/crime/

Have fun.
9/29/08

ekim941

MPD, the original post reads with a bit of a slant on the side of the boy, using words like "Armed" and "Beat". It was written more as propaganda than news and appears to be working.
9/29/08

DrowseyMonkey

I agree with you MadameX ... the more I listen to people here at BC from the USA the more I think like the Red Panda ... it seems like a very violent mentality running through many of the comments from Americans and I find that surprising. It was the same when there was that thread about the Texas man who murdered a man by shooting him in the back because he said he was robbing his neighbour ... that man as found not guilty.

Anyway - the next time I hear Americans say it's TV or the movies that makes their society more violent I'll really roll my eyes, because Canada has the same tv & movies you all have. It really has been an eye opener hanging out here.

9/29/08

Enlight

Every country is different. In the Kurdish areas of Turkey, both of them would be killed to save the families honor. In Egypt, depends what part of the country, but both families would just engage them and marry them to avoid a problem.

In America, that situation is a lack of open communication between the father and the daughter.

The behavior of the father did break the law in America, thus, suffer the results.

It is not against the law for two fifteen year old kids to have sex.

It is against the law to physically injure someone.

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9/29/08

EXZombie

"The behavior of the father did break the law in America, thus, suffer the results."

Actually it didn't. He was found not guilty because he was defending himself and his daughter. The whole reason he may of been arrested had more to do with the male's age.

Plus different States have different laws.
9/29/08

MadameX

It's true that different states have different laws, but I'm not aware of any U.S. state in which this action would have been a crime (assuming that the father's story is true).
9/29/08

Enlight

Well, that is very good to hear that a little justice did take place, every state and country is different.

Even in Jordan within some areas an honor killing (murder) would take place.

9/29/08

I have 2 daughters, one is 16 and the other is 22.
I would just have been disappointed, very disappointed,not really something I would expect to happen.
Under my roof, that is...

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9/29/08

Enlight

In Upper Egypt they circumcise the girl because of fear, shame verses honor from sexuality.

In some of the conservative areas of the Turkish East, an honor killing could take place; although there is a difference from the Kurdish and the Turkish in Turkey.

The Kurdish for sure, both would be killed.

America is completely different in that respect.

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9/29/08

Scribblerchick

I am the single mom of a beautiful 17 year old daughter. IMHO, the man gave that boy what he deserved. Maybe he overreacted, but I have to say, if I saw that, I would've gone in there with my basball bat and knock the kid senseless, too. The father shouldn't go to jail.

MPDZombie, your comments make the most sense to me.

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9/29/08

Hmm, why would your daughter do that in the first place?
May I remind everybody that what your children do is the result of their education?
And their education is coming from the parents first.
And I'm actually not too surprised a guy beat up the boyfriend of his 15 years old daughter having sex in his house...

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9/29/08

EXZombie

I'd get out my belt thats for sure but a pipe to the head? Na, That's just too extreme for a little bit of the ol' fashioned laying the "pipe".

By the way...... Meow.
9/29/08

faithsju243

@farangrakthai...."May I remind everyody that what your children do is the result of their education? And their education is coming from the parents first."

Are you saying that to mean that kids do whatever they are taught? People aren't programmable devices the last time I checked and I'm almost positive this father didn't sit her down the night before and say yeah it's cool to invite your bf up for a romp only to belt him in the head.
9/29/08

EXZombie

Faith, I think the thing that most people think is that the parents should of sat with the girl and said "Hey kiddo, Listen we know sex is out there and it's a chance that you'll end up doing it but we want to make sure if you do, You come to us first so we can talk"....

9/29/08

No, I did not say that. Children do not do what they're "taught", they do what they understand they should do or not do...

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9/29/08

EXZombie

faran, A guy as dumb as me has been able to corrupt his fair share of Daddy's little Angels when growing up. No matter how much the parents gets them to understand all it takes is some buttering up and all the morals go right out the window.

Jeebus I hope I never have a daughter. I'm gonna end up being that father looking across at the boyfriend while cleaning his gun collection.
9/29/08

werelax

You have got to be kidding, ever met a rebellious teen? You must believe they don't exist. Kids will do things they know are against their parents morals/rules/beliefs, for a large range of reasons. It is all quite normal.
9/29/08

faithsju243

@faran....are you serious????? Kids and adults for that matter do tons of things that they know/understand are wrong.

9/29/08

Would I kill someone for having sex?

Many years ago when I was about 8 years old, I came home to hear strange noises
coming from my back yard. I went to see what it was making all that noise
and I surprised two dogs stuck together in heat. They were mating.

I got mad that they had the nerve to come to my house to fornicate and I threw a small rock at them. They couldn't separate and left the yard still stuck together but it was the look on their faces that made me realize how wrong I was. I don't think I ever forgave myself for what I did and it still bothers me
even today when I think about it. I came between them and their happy hour.

Of course I realize I was wrong to do what I did but I was young and I didn't use my head fast enough to understand that they are having joy. I simply didn't understand.

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9/29/08

Enlight

oops

9/29/08

I do not really agree, Zombie, but well, I'm a European, we do not really call it corruption...

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9/29/08

EXZombie

Yeah I know but you do need to understand that we're a nation that spent a whole season talking about how "immoral" Janet Jackson's nipple was.

Heh seriously though, Like someone said, Even though adults and kids know what is right and wrong we still choose the later.

Note: I don't know why I mentioned Janet Jackson's nipple or if it even applys to this conversation but it's been too long since it's been brought up and i'm Sleepy.
9/29/08

Enlight

LOL, that shows how anal America really is about sex.
9/29/08

EXZombie

Na, It just shows how loud and anal the minority is. The Majority was like meh it's a nipple but sadly the minority yells louder.
9/29/08

Enlight

People have issues concerning sex all over the world, I have experienced very strange, but that the result of repression from religion over a 1000 years.

If it isn't sex then it's food, money, religion, or territory

9/29/08