Discussions
Money or Quality of Life?
Posted by scheduledoctor • 6/17/08 • Subscribe to this Discussion [RSS] • Report This Topic
Topics: shift work schedule employee morale productivity
If you are a shift worker, would you prefer a slightly higher wage or a better schedule that fit your lifestyle?
User Comments
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I personally would take the better schedule, you can do a lot with more time.
Time is a problem for me, I don't have enough time during the day to get my stuff done
and I do plan right but sometimes it's still not enough.-
A lot of people feel that way. Check out the article I wrote for Booz Allen. It is on my blog at www.corepractice.blogspot.com. It is from a study of over 100k shift workers and what they thought about their schedule compared to one of our current clients (by the way, they agree with you!)
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Can I be honest and say a union.-
Union isn't always the answer. The contentious relationship isn't just crappy for management. Employees often hate the lack of respect that goes along with unionizing. I am not anti-union by any means, but sometimes it isn't necessary....then again, sometimes it is...
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Union always is necessary for employees who want rights other than "at will" employment.
Working as an employee without a union is like going to court with no lawyer, hoping the other guys will be nice to you as your defense from getting hammered.
Without a union, employers treat employees as a form of livestock, a necessary evil. -
Thank you Mister.
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I want to say again that in some cases unions are necessary, but to say that they make sense everywhere is crazy. There are factual historical examples of unions causing more harm than good. Don't forget the union leadership needs to get elected. This often causes union leadership to push for short term solutions that may cause long term harm. Look at the steele workers. Their union was so strong that they negotiated themselves out of business. Unions can hurt businesses ability to be competitive globally. That is fine in the short term, but we need to actually make sure we still have viable companies and jobs 5 years from now.
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I have to say that first of all the term "shift worker" bothers me. Are you implying that these are a group of people that work specific shifts? By using the term "shift worker", are you implying hard workers, industry work? My perception is that you're implying that "shift workers" lack a formal education?
I have had the honors of working both union and non union shift work. I can honestly say that the unionized "shift workers" were and appeared more happy and productive. Management wasn't perceived as a threat but more of a guidance . I think that the biggest problem with "shift workers" is that there's too many Chiefs and not enough Indians. Be like them,for once. A "shift worker" would love to see management bust their butts as much as the "shift workers" do? I mean. lets face it. The "shift workers" are what makes the company, produce no? One last thing. A thank you goes a loooong way. Treat "shift workers" as if they're individuals and not just "shift workers". They're people with names and titles, not just a "class". Let a specific person by name, know that they have been doing well, and "thank you"-
In no place to I mention that shift workers are anything but people that work non-traditional schedules (not the traditional 9-5). My clients include Applied Materials (people with PhDs) to miners to doctors to manufacturing workers. This isn't about education and frankly many line workers have college educations these days because the pay can be fairly lucrative depending on the company. Shift worker stigmas come from people assuming that shift workers don't have education and frankly that is where the prejudice comes from - and heck, we shouldn't be attacking people that couldn't afford either the cost of college or the time it takes to get the degree. Those people deserve respect - sometimes more respect than those doctors out there because they have had to fight for everything.
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I am not a "shift worker". I would take another job where I would not have that as my primary designation. My current work schedule is pretty flexible about time. Having a specific title goes a long way to furthering ones career and resume.-
Different strokes for different folks. Typically shift workers take the jobs based on the pay compared with other jobs in their area or a lack of other choices.
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I worked primarily nights for 14 years. Recent research shows that "graveyard shift" is just that. It causes health problems from heart disease to cancer & should be abolished.
So I guess I'm for quality of life (that I have, now that I work days.)-
My firm has studied this extensively. We have found that you are 5 times more likely to get breast cancer or colon cancer or have some digestive disorder. The biggest issue now is where those problems come from. Is it from the actually working at night or the lifestyles of those that work nights. Typically, based on being tired or having your sleep schedule messed up you may be more likely to exercise less and eat less healthy food. Not true for everyone, but this was a causal consideration in our study.
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Typically, people can complain & get police response if neighbors make a racket after 11pm. Night shift workers have no rights in this & so many other regards. They're like second class citizens & typically risk their lives (in this & other ways,) often for very low pay (not that higher pay would make it worth it.)
There's a reason human beings have a diurnal internal clock & the body creates vitamin D out of sunlight--because people are meant to be awake & active during the day, not at night. During the Winters I never saw the sun & that's just wrong. I would NEVER work nights again. -
LGramlich: Then what do we do about the realities of cost and globalization. Should we decide not to compete and not manufacturer products anymore that are cost competitive. The only reason manufacturing has survived in our country this far is that we use shift work to maximize capital utilization and reduce overall costs. I am not saying shift work is healthy, safe, or fun. I am saying that our country can't survive without it.
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Money's an illusion--just colors & patterns printed on special paper. We could actually live without it & everyone could have what they need, but sheeple are stupid, lazy & give up their power too easily. Even gold has no intrisic value. Amerika the Corpocracy is the land of the fee & home of the slave. Economic slavery for all (except the 6% at the top of the financial ladder.) Globalization = global slavery.
I wouldn't say that manufacturing HAS survived in the US, either. Everything's being outsourced. Working nights won't change that.
As we're clearly going to disagree (& that's fine,) I won't be responding to anything further here. -
Got it. I think we agree on the lazy etc., but I also think that your system only works if EVERYONE agrees to the system. Unfortunately, that is an impossibility in our country. Thanks for participating and I hope I haven't acted like a jerk.
John -
scheduledoctor; No, you haven't acted like a jerk. I can just see this heading in a bad direction (on my part, at least,) & figure I'd better just stop myself now, before I get on my soap box.
Peace to you & yours!
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I know people who work nights because it pays more but also they say it is a more relaxed atmosphere. I think it depends often times on whether you have a family.-
I think this is really right. Less management is around on nights and it can certainly be more peaceful. Although my firm has surveyed over 100,000 shift workers, we don't think we have ever met the average shift worker. Everyone is different and there isn't any such thing as an average employee. That is what makes schedule creation so difficult. You will never make everyone happy.
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It depends.
I'd prefer a perfect balance, if possible.
That beings said, for the right price I'd work about any shift.
"Quality of life" doesn't only apply to what hours you work. The amount of money you earn, it might be reasoned, also impacts your "quality of life." In that sense I don't see it as a money vs quality of life decision.-
You are right. Maybe it is money vs. having the right time off. Either way, I think management teams really miss the boat when they pay shift differentials of 50 cents an hour for working night shift. If you work 8 hours do you really think 4 dollars (before uncle sam takes some of it) will make you enjoy the shift?
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Higher pay for night shifters will result inevitably in a higher turnover. People will be attracted to the paycheck, but the lack of social and other aspects that go with it will cause them to change eventually.
To balance the schedule. allowing for a more "complete" life, will be better for reducing turnover rates.-
Thank You, Thank You, Thank You!!
Increasing pay doesn't mean the schedule still isn't awful. Management teams try to pay off employees with 50 cents an hour and think that they will forget about the crappy schedule. In the end, more money is nice, but 50 cents an hour doesn't translate (for most people) in wanting to be awake in the middle of the night - for both health and happiness factors. It is interesting that even with pay increases, 87% of night shift workers we spoke with still were trying to bid on day shift jobs.
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@scheduledoctor, calling me a shift worker will not bother me. I have more important things to be worried about.
Unions are NOT for everyone. They were great (and a lot stronger during the Industrial time period, but we have moved on to the information and technology age. I think as time goes on, and we as a society mature to the technological age, so will our thought process, and our way of life. Jobs and careers will be able to move into a more friendly time table, as far as flex time, different "shifts" or hours.-
The problem with schedules getting better is it means the cost of goods will go up. Shift work is critical to our country staying competitive. companies spend millions and sometimes hundreds of millions of dollars on building and equipment to produce products. If we don't utilize them 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, than we raise the cost of goods. Scheduling may actual get more difficult as growing companies opt to utilize equipment they already own more and not buy more facililties to keep schedules monday through friday.
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mo money-
How much would it take for you to work a bad schedule (per hour)?
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I make a lot so I was assuming my personal wage (which I'm not giving out in any discussion board). Of course IF I was making $6 bucks an hour that wouldn't fly with me. I don't know what my cutoff would be but a schedule I can deal with, being poor, can not.
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Money can't buy you Love.
Just look what happened to Paul McCartney marrying Heather Mills.
That one legged Pirate got away will all his Mo ney. lmao
ARRRR Shiver me timbers!-
I don't think Paul McCartney is hurting for money. LOL
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Ha! studies show that after a certain amount of money (somewhere in the 70k range each year) people did not get any happier as they made more money. Studies prove that money - once over a certain amount, does NOT buy happiness - that is a fact.
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Thank you scheduledoctor...case closed.
You know for the record when Heather was seen on Larry King
and she pulled out her one leg and put it up on the counter for all to see,
I couldn't help but think.... "What other tricks is she hiding from us"?
Sorry a mind wanders off sometimes.
I also specifically remember Larry asking her if she's marrying for the money and she said "Oh No".
GOLDDIGGER www.blogcatalog.com/discuss/entry/golddiggers-
She would have put her purse on the table too, but it was too big to fit.
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The gold digger thing is really funny. "He wanted to get between her leg."
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Yeah..the one leg she has left.
Maybe she can buy a bionic leg now with all that money. -
These comments are ugly. -
Lmao Theresa111
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That's a tough one. I think more money would be desirable if I had kids to raise. You can give all the time you want to a kid, but if you can't pay for their basic necessities, which are expensive, then who cares?-
Ah, the realities of the world. Thanks for the insights, I really agree. Everyone has a different appetite for "stuff". The question is how do we provide for the bare necessities which now are so expensive that a lot of people need a second job? If we can't figure this out, then how we get rich doesn't matter.
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I am a teacher so you know in no uncertain terms I choose quality of life. Although some teaching jobs pay better than others and I want to be comfortable and I do like nice clothes
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I have lots of respect for teachers.
I don't think teachers in general get the love, support and respect they deserve.
Plus most are so poorly paid for the amount of crap they have to put with
from other people's untrained kids and even the parents act like kids too. -
Maybe this is the answer to the question. I want the schedule of a teacher so I can have my summer off, but I want the salary of an investment banker. Thanks for being a teacher!
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I have always felt that teachers should start off at $100,000 a year.
People always pound into children's heads that eduation is VERY important. I agree, so put your money where your mouth.
But it goes both ways...each year, each teacher goes through a rigorous review of job performance, and a continuing program for certification.
I know there are so many variables for this idea, so I know this will never happen.
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@ Jeunelle
Thanks. I've learned to have patience especially after teaching for a while especially after teaching in correctional facility for four years.-
I also think that as a teacher...if your life is in danger from being in a prison or even schools where kids bring guns to school, your life is in serious danger and your salary should go up because you are taking a huge risk sometimes, simply coming to school to teach.
I know many teachers who have been threatened or was seriously hurt by other kids.
They simply don't pay teachers enough for the crap they have to put up with. -
A friend of mine runs a company called PEP, or the prison entrepenuership (sp.?) program. They bring business leaders into prisons in Texas to redirect drug dealers into great sales people in legal areas of business.
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DOH Money=quality of life.-
Would you be willing to work every weekend in order to make the money? Some people said that a schedule like that would equate to no quality of life. You would have the money, but could only spend it on Tuesday and Wednesday.
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In order to get a very comfortable monthly earning, I had to rely on my freelance jobs. I could not rely on my full time job at all.
Working full time forced me to work overload aka overtime. Outrageously until 10.30 pm to 12 am. Reached home at 2 am.
Solution to both?
I resigned from my full time job. Currently I have a very good earning and also a lot of time for myself as I am running my own business.
Cheers,
JJ -
Everyone:
The article we wrote at www.strategy-business.com/li/leadingideas/li00079 for Booz Allen Hamilton shows that in our survey of over 100,000, 81% of the shift workers said that pay and benefits were good. They had major issues with management, but pay wasn't the issue. Check it out and let me know what you think. It is super short. -
I think I'd like to have both but if forced to choose one, hands down it's quality of life.
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Quality of life was my choice. I have had chances to make way more money that I'm making now but with that, I give up time and some sanity. Time that I'm able to see my kids in school performances, awards or just take an extra day off to go camping and so on. I really believe that this choice will not only improve my quality of life but even extend it because I'm not working myself to death.-
Nice choice MVT5150, YOU ROCK.
I too can take my Optical business to all 50-51 states
and then go global but this will mean, I will soon have no life.
How much do I really want to give as far as giving or myself to the public
and retaining some form of privacy for myself and my thoughts?
I have asked myself this question a lot for the past few years
because I could really be stinking rich with this business if I went global with it
but do I really want to do this? That is the question.
Once you step over that line and cross it, there is no turning back.
I prefer to remain humble and focus on just helping the few people that do make it to my shop
and retain my level of mental sanity, what's left of it.
Overall everyone must make their own choice.
Excellent discussion scheduledoctor -
We got some good responses on this one and I am generally curious. It really is the tug of war as part of our human nature. I think the people that spend their lives chases riches end up tired and unhappy. Can't we all just inherit something??!
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yes
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I think its one at a time. Hardworkers sacrifice the quality of life to earn enough money to be used in order to have quality life later. Besides, its sometimes or most of the time directly proportional. You can't have quality life if you're starving. -
I guess this question hits close to home because I have a new son and I work 6 and 7 days a week with really long hours and I fly around the world to different clients (who have issues with worker schedules and cost reduction requirements). I tell them how to improve, but this stuff is like an addiction. Working long hours not healthy, but I am having a hard time slowing down. It is amazing I can take care of 10,000 employees in a manufacturing plant and get some work life balance, but can't seem to do it for myself.
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? Comment doubled.
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Yeah but doing so they end up losing their soul at the same time.
Their children sometimes miss their father or mother around
because the parents are chasing money, the kids turn out delinquent
when a parent isn't around to be seen.
I don't think you can really win either way physically
but spiritually a poor person has much to gain.
I have lost my ego a long time ago and don't want it back.
I've met a lot of rich men with inflated egos and find them to be ugly and beast like.
I sleep with a machete under my pillow in case they try to get wild with me. lmao -
If we would JUST CHOOSE, we would obviously choose quality of life. But sometimes we need to distinguish what we WANT as opposed to what we NEED. We must exaggerate the situation to understand it better. Maybe the amount of money you are talking here is just enough to live but not enough to have a quality life. Try to think that the consequence of having a quality life is earning not enough to LIVE. And the consequence of having enough to LIVE is consuming ALL your time. Would you still go for "not enough" just to have more time for yourself and your family?
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YES I was happier then.
The truth is I have had both and I still love my simplicity.
But of course we are all not cookie cutter, I am speaking for myself only.
This question is a question that eats to the soul of you.
You really have to stop and ask yourself what it is you really want or really need.
Can you have both? I don't believe you can.
They both require different things from you
and one takes more and the other gives more, except most don't see it. -
It is too easy to make the wrong decision and we all tend to do the wrong thing at one point or another. Greed is in all of us, the question is to what degree.
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I cant believe it. "Not enough" means starvation and starvation is deadly. I did magnify the situation to illustrate what you need and sacrifice what you want. I made it a matter of life and death but still you made a choice I don't expect. But I guess you didn't imagine the situation I gave.
@scheduledoctor, I think this is not a matter of greed. This is an issue of inadequacy I illustrated. Besides, we don't do it for ourselves, we do it for people who depend on us. -
Like I said, everyone is different with different needs and wants
I am a single woman living alone and have no children or dependents
so the choice I made is a good one for me.
I am not starving, I have what I need and that is enough for me.
In terms of the starvation that you are talking about,
people will do all kinds of things they didn't expect to do when a war hits
and they need to eat to survive.
Some have become cannibals because the next best thing to eat
was someone who died and why waste perfectly good meat?
You will be surprised to know what people who were once virtuous will do
when hardship and war breaks out.
The decision I made for me was the right one and I have no regrets.
Overall I will choose what I need and to hell with I want.
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So shift work is factory work?-
I dunno, I asked the same thing, but I got a different answer.
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Shift work is defined as work that requires non-traditional schedules, meaning monday through friday, 9-5 or 8-4 or something similar. IT HAS NO RELATION TO THE ACTUAL JOB YOU DO OR MONEY YOU MAKE OR EDUCATION YOU HAVE.
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@ RTB
$100,000 a year. Please go into education and become a superintendent. Thanks for feeling the way you do! -
Quality of life. i DONT need a work that don't suit enough my lifestyle. The important thing is you work for your life and not your life to work.
"MONEY CAN'T BUY LIFE"
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