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Notes on Salvation
Posted by Albran • 6/11/09 • Subscribe to this Discussion [RSS] • Report This Topic
Topics: ask anything in my name, complete healing, devil, god's will, grace, Lucifer, nature of sin, problem is sin, salvation
Often, in discussions with traditional or fundamentalist Christians the emphasis lies heavily on the nature of sin mankind or any single man did commit. It is believed that one can really sin and act to hurt what God created in His Likeness, meaning that what is created perfect can be changed into something that is sinful and will corrupt in death.
Although Jesus, according to how the story is commonly told, died for us on the cross, we are still dragging our cross with us only to continue to sin and die. God's plan of salvation does take time, and many will end up in hell forever.
Any reasonable mind has great difficulties with these propositions. Whatever one concludes, it involves a decision about what is real and unreal, or true and false. It is basically the question whether there can be anything outside of the realm of God's will that is real by any means. Some try to solve or explain the dilemma by referring to the devil, Lucifer which, however, implies a statement that one can be separate from God and will against His will, since they, too, in their creation must have shared God's will.
These ideas all touch upon the idea whether this world is real or possible in the first place. Of course, the problem of sin could not be a problem at all, if the world is not real.
What I would like to offer is this:
Jesus says, "If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it." (John 14:14) That would mean that I can ask for salvation in this moment, and be free and restored to Heaven. I could ask for complete healing of my mind and body, and I would not see pain, sickness and death anymore. Is this true? Wouldn't this have to be successful the moment I am then willing to receive the help and be truly saved? Is it then completely up to me? Am I going to far? Do I have to admit that I am not willing to go that far? Do I really want to be healed, or do I prefer the pain, sickness and death of this place? Do I need mind training to stay in the acceptance of the grace of God that heals everything? And further, do I need to give it, in order to have it?
It seems like that when you say things like this you are ruining the game of sin people love to play.
User Comments
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ahh.. I'll have to read this when my mind is fresh
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Wait, this wasn't a Terminator Salvation review! -
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a little bit of context for that random verse:
Jesus said to him, "Have I been with you for so long a time and you still do not know me, Philip? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'?
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Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on my own. The Father who dwells in me is doing his works.
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Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father is in me, or else, believe because of the works themselves.
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Amen, amen, I say to you, whoever believes in me will do the works that I do, and will do greater ones than these, because I am going to the Father.
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And whatever you ask in my name, I will do, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
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If you ask anything of me in my name, I will do it.-
That is a very powerful statement. If it is true that whoever believes in Jesus will do the works that he did or does, and will do greater ones than these, than we are all still in kindergarden, or are not believing.
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There's that rash again... -
Wow! Another blog post masquerading as a General Discussion topic.
Why bother creating and publishing a unique post on your blog and actually promoting it in a Shameless Blog Promotion thread, when you can when you can rely on cherry picking from ancient scripture and post a sermon here?-
What other options did I have?
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So, what are you saying, timethief, what the limits of the offer of Jesus are? I had a discussion with a Seven Day Adventist today, and later, when the guy was gone, this quote from John came to mind, and I found it truly stunning what people do in their minds to justify this old story of sin and punishment or even eternal hell which is all a story of an EVIL God.
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TT be nice...some of your comments are as long as blog posts, but they are read because they people are interested in what you're saying. If people are interested in this disucssion, they'll read the OP. -
@jaybetee
TT be nice ...
Will do and I will not return to this thread.
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What if I enjoy my game of sin? I would never push it onto you.-
That is my whole point, Suzie. Somewhere we are not willing to give up this idea of suffering and death, sin and destruction for what it seems to offer us. We are too comfortable in this world to stand up and truly say, there has to be another way.
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I don't see the need to come down so hard on any post relating to religion, specifically Christianity. It's like a recurring them here. If you don;t want to discuss the topic, just don't discuss it. No need to start making sarcastic comments and start ragging on the discussion.
Also, I'd rather read a longer post with some thought behind it rather than, "Girls: are they crazy?"
Albran, I wish I had some more time to give some thought to this discussion and give you an answer to some of your questions, but I don;t have a lot of time.
What I will say is that it is hard for me to wrap my head around the concept that if I don't accept Jesus as my savior that I automatically go to hell. I figure if I'm a good guy and do good stuff with the time i have here on Earth that should be enough to get me to a good place. I know that doesn't come close to answering all that you asked, and may not be totally on target with the discussion, but it is my quicky answer.-
Thanks Jason for putting a detached perspective in here.
I completely understand your trouble with the concept as you expressed it. While this is a short form of what is taught in many churches, I meant to say, this is not the truth. No one goes to hell, except that we are in hell already, at least that is how I see this world and what it teaches me. No one is here except by his own will, and can depart at any moment if he so chooses.
There is no justice, no peace, no love and truth here, because everything one cherishes and loves for a while disappears or changes the next moment. My point was to expose the traditional teaching that claims that this bad dream of a world of separation is all meaningful and that one is saved through the sacrifice of One for all. The solution Jesus offered is radical beyond anything and places a responsibility on one's self that very very few seem to be willing to accept.
Obviously, if I can ask for the complete healing of my mind and soul and everything, the problem of this world as it appears to me, can't be that big and real. The question is given back to me, do I really want to be healed, free, especially along with everyone else. For it says, that as long as I see something that speaks of an error in someone else, I have to remove the beam in my own eye, in other words, as long as that is the case, I need healing. "And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye." (Mt, 7:3-5)
The responsibility is on me. I see this world as it is, and give it all the meaning it has for me. As that is so, I am its savior by releasing it back to light. "And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven." (Mt, 16:19)
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So I believe in Jesus, ask for a million dollars in his name and I don't get it. Looks like proof against this whole Jesus as son of god thing.-
I just love simple philosophy -
Well, do you really mean it when you say I ask for a million dollars in his name? Do you really believe in your requesting? Apart from that, I would direct you to what Mkcoy said below? As you see above in the quote by noetic, Jesus said that greater things will be done by you. Is manifesting a million dollar greater than what Jesus accomplished?
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Is there anything simpler than perfection and truth? Truth is true, and nothing else is true? This world meets no characteristic of perfection and truth, therefore it is false, not true. One has to awaken from its seeming reality that can only be in the mind.
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1. if it is gods will, then it isn't me asking. It is just me agreeing to something god was going to do anyway.
2. ok. say I'm not asking for money. say I'm asking for peace in darfur. waiting . . . . waiting . . . . . still no peace, therefore either false statement by god or false god. -
If you are not included in God's will, then there is no God's will. There is only ONE will.
Your second point assumes the reality and God's knowledge of this world. Yet if this world is real, there can be no God. This world has nothing to do with reality, it is of your own making, and it does not exist. To ask God to change anything here is to assume He can know of insanity. But you can ask for help to wake up from your dream. This request would be in accordance with God's will because it does not maintain a position that is antagonistic to what God is. This world is. There can be no compromise about it. If fear, destruction and lack are part of God or love, the very idea of what God, love is, would be meaningless. Truth is true, and nothing else is true, meaning truth can have no opposites and still be truth.
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Huh? -
"If you ask anything of me in my name, I will do it."
Within reason and providing its Gods will. Not yours.-
That is the key - within God's will. Jesus never said that he would do anything that is not in accord with the Father's will. God's will for us is perfect happiness, complete freedom, but we seek it in the little things of this ever changing world. This involves an assumption and claim that that we can live apart from God, separate from our source which is not true. Yet we seem to be happy enough to struggle daily for our survival and accept slavery to laws that make no sense.
But do we ask for love, healing, God's will to be done? It seems not until we are totally disillusioned by this world.
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