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Okay, I was wrong. I apologize.
Posted by davidfarrar • 5/15/08 • Subscribe to this Discussion [RSS] • Report This Topic
Tags: bloggers, blogs, internet, unite
Bloggers Unite for Human Rights was legit, as was Rich's call to Unite. I apologize for any and all dispersions I may have cast upon his efforts, blog or website. It seems CNN has mentioned a few blogs from BlogCat's list on their news network. I hope the video can be posted here as well so we all can share in the success.
But my original question remains; what's next? How can the diffuse cyber ramblings of the blogisphere be focused enough to unite under a common cause and action for the common good? Without such a deliberative cyber structure, all we can do is listen to our own cyber echos.
I wish I had the answer to this question. Clearly, this is the Holy Grail, if you will, of the next wave of Internet innovation. If you have some thoughts along these lines, I, and most of the "deliberative groupware" industry, would certainly like to hear from you -- and so would Rich it seems.
ex animo
davidfarrar
User Comments
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It's okay. Everybody makes mistakes. I know I do.
I have a lot to do today so I'll have to entertain your question another day.
Best,
Rich-
Thank you, Rich.
Take your time, it's a very, very complex question. Just adjusting Robert's Rules to fit into cyber space is challenging enough.
ex animo
davidfarrar
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Sometimes consciousness raising is enough. Look where the ideas of the Enlightenment eventually led? Or take the Universal Declaration of Human Rights from 1948. Did the term human rights have such currency back then? Not really, but the rhetoric has been powerful. One might say the same thing about Helsinki Accords (1975), insofar as the Warsaw Pact countries found themselves agreeing, at least on a rhetorical level, to human rights. That might have given their dissident movements something to work with, as at least one author suggests: www.opendemocracy.net/democracy-protest/helsinki_2716.jsp
And if raising consciousness isn't enough, it is certainly a necessary first step. Now find something that matters to you and do what you can, whether that means blogging, signing a petition, or getting even more active. [edit] Don't be disappointed if more doesn't happen here on BC though. Bloggers are a diverse group. They won't all go for the same causes. But they can agree on the broad outlines of this particular action, and so their blogging efforts are magnified. [/edit]-
Yes, I am sure you are correct, as far as you go. But we have a new tool in our communicative toolbox that should allow us to go further, much further. When you take into account the tremendous communicate potential of the Internet, it seems more can be accomplished.
By way of an example: we have all been to some sort of a deliberative meeting in the past where a designated group of decision-makers had to not only recognize a problem, but arrive at its solution using a prescribed set of deliberative processes. Your local town council can be seen as a typical example of a deliberative meeting.
One of the things I see missing from holding an effective deliberative Internet meeting that is present in a (brick-and-mortar) deliberative meeting is the application of Robert's Rules. In short, there is no cyber Robert's Rules that can be applied to a deliberative cyber meeting.
There are other issues needed to be addressed in order to have an effective deliberative cyber meeting, capable of moving the right recognition of the right problem, along with the right solution, up the chain of participants to the final decision-markers, such as value assessment and assignment to the point of contributor posts, along with the introduction of any relevant data, and an effective polling and archiving mechanism, to name just a few. But it should be possible to have an effective deliberative Internet structure capable of successfully merging the communicative power of the Internet with the "Wisdom of the Crowd" to vastly empower the democratic process.
ex animo
davidfarrar
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Hi Dave! Just gonna hijack your thread for a second, so pardon me please...
I just saw the video. Rich, thanks....A fantabulous job! I was proud! - Nards
Thanks for letting me, Dave - Nards. -
~davidfarrar
Speaking for myself I think your apology and pointed question to RICH speaks as YOUR contribution. For DIALOG is the "HOLY GRAIL" of the solution, As to how to use the TECHNOLOGY to achieve a measure result, I can not answer,But a continued dialog of this matter is a must for any solution, and a question all should be pondering -
Who cares what's next? Why can't we just "be" right now. That works for me.-
The problem with immediate gratification is it never last.
Most movement's for good often end with the lack of follow through and just becoming good intentions of which many roads
have been paved! -
I meant just enjoy this moment of 'bloggers unite' ... you know, read people's blogs, get enlightened, take action...whatever. No where did I say anything about immediate gratification.
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It takes a big man to speak up and say he was wrong. Your apology says a lot about you, and I am glad you've stuck around to not only mend bridges but also keep the dialogue open and get people to think.-
What NINE said.
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I just got back, and left a 'shout' on your profile. As a television character said, some decades back, "never mind."
About 'what's next,' I'm going to continue to discuss aspects of human rights and other issues in one of my blogs ( anotherwaronterrorblog.blogspot.com/ ).
I'm quite certain that my efforts will have do very little to sway the course of world events. However, although I am very far from being omnipotent and omniscient, I do not regard that as a reason to do nothing.
As markstoneman pointed out, 'raising consciousness' is not necessarily a useless exercise. So far, although I'm quite convinced that the effect is trivial and ineffectual, my blog has resulted in- Some Muslims learning that one more non-Muslim in America is anti-terror, not anti-Muslim
- Introducing facts, and (in my opinion) plausible conclusions, to debate of a subject which is often buried in emotional diatribes
Given the values I hold, doing nothing is not an option: no matter how trivial my contribution may be. -
I don't see it as immediate gratification for people to come together and unite for an important worldwide cause. I doubt CNN would have covered it if they saw it that way either. People are taking action, some together, some in his or her own way. Isn't that how great things are accomplished?-
Yes it is , as and the point I was trying to make!
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It takes a really strong person to admit they were wrong and I commend you for that. As madamex says in her post just do something. rockstories.blogspot.com/2008/05/bloggers-unite-for-human-rights.html
It doesn't end here. It's what you make of it. -
Actually, public sentiment over the trial of a printer led to the first amendment to the US Constitution. When people unite for a common cause, their voices are heard. Eventually, there may be an impact. That's all we can hope for. -
I like it when people apologize because it is proof that we are still civilized. Well done. By the way, I freely admit when I have been wrong. Humility is a great way to wash yourself clean. Cheers
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Since coming to BC I have found myself in the wrong on three occasions and have had to summon up the courage to apologize to kellybax, kdawg and to mommatalks.
Apologizing is not an easy thing to do but, it's a necessary thing to do whenever we find that we are wrong and, we regret what we have previously said. Thanks for being courageous and gracious enough to do so.-
It shows class.
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I thinks it's ironic that we can be so passionate about something on the other side of the planet and walk past the man laying in the street in our own neighborhood.Now that's a TRIP.
I would like to encourage people to focus on issues right in your area,America is in BIG trouble Wake up.
I'm not pointing the finger and am guilty of this myself I'm just trying to raise awareness that you don't need to look far to see all the suffering.And it would be ALOT more practical to look at what you can do in your own city.-
@jsinkeywest
Thanks for your contribution. Not all bloggers at BC are Americans, they are simply the most vocal group on the forum. In fact there are far more bloggers in Asia and India than there are in North America. I'm a Canadian and I do take part in many volunteer efforts to feed and clothe and house the hungry, battered and poverty stricken in my own community on a year round basis. I hope you do the same where you live too.
Best regards -
I have always assumed, maybe wrongly so, people who advocate for the greater good are already working on a local level. At least that is the case among those I know, and myself. -
I don't try to go big on issues I am not personally advocating or involved...
but about the beggars on the street it's against the law to give them alms here in my country... I just don't know about in the Western countries though. -
It's hard to imagine a body, living or dead, lying in the street in this town, without someone coming to see what could be done.
I live in central Minnesota, and although I'll freely admit that this isn't the same as living in Detroit, New York, or Los Angeles, I don't know that we're all that different here.
And, being concerned about neighbors on the other side of the world does not exclude the possibility of being concerned about neighbors on the same block. -
earthlingorgeous,
I'm no legal expert, but in the American system deciding whether begging is illegal or not is a local matter.
As a related example, it's illegal where I live (or was, a few decades back) to put your hat on the sidewalk, play a musical instrument, and encourage people to throw money in the hat. In San Francisco (again, a few decades back) it's not only legal, but a way that a few talented people (and many with little talent) make a living. -
cooper,
I make the same assumption. And, I'm pretty sure there are exceptions.
Remember the old gag, "I love mankind: but I can't stand people." -
As timethief said, "Not all bloggers at BC are Americans, they are simply the most vocal group on the forum."
Very true. I don't know what the percentages are, but just look at www.blogcatalog.com/discuss/entry/where-are-you-all-from-in-the-world for the global nature of this community.
And, although I'll grant that we come across as loud-mouthed and pushy (eloquent and assertive?), I don't have the fashionable disdain for American culture and citizens.
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Here's a link to the CNN video:
www.cnn.com/video/#/video/tech/2008/05/15/delacruz.bloggers.unite.cnn?iref=...
Nice work, guys--this really gives the event a global focus.-
@kaybday
Thanks for the link.
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Oh it is great to see the video
David, that really gets my respect when you have the guts to apologize.
I can't speak for others, but today is not the only time I think of human rights issues. A lot of my art work addresses the human condition and human rights issues and I have blogged about them off and on for 2 years now, as well as provide links. Some of the art has been free (such as the current work on todays entry at:http://jafagirlart.blogspot.com/
It goes beyond just a blog entry,and I suspect very much it is the same for so many of the bloggers who united for human rights.-
sorry, I didn't put the link properly.
jafagirlart.blogspot.com/
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wow I hope their servers ready that was awesome thanks for sharing the link
Deadrooster is going to be on FIRE-sweet cause that guys cool and great for HIM -
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
~ Edmund Burke
Apathy is the only real tragedy...-
Monarch! Totally agree! One voice on the internet can empower thousands. And in a way that's why I use it - not to fill people's heads with what I think, but to show them that they too can have a voice. Even though I say so myself I bloogged on ONE ISSUE which no one was bothering with and within two weeks 26,000 people had protested to the Justice Minister in Scotland - I didn't do that, they did - but my one voice telling people that THEY COULD made a world of difference. Empowering people is what it's all about for me.
Ben -
Oz that is really cool!
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whay was it we were to write about STOP HUMAN ABUSE around the world Im not exactly clear?
hb~ -
Look,
I am sure you are all doing the right thing as far as you go. But the Internet has the potential to accomplish so very much more. Just in the area of participatory governance alone the next step could be taken that would bring about fundamental change the likes of which we have not seen since the invention of movable type.
If we could, for instance, cyberly attend the UN session on Human Rights and raise the issues you all have expressed, and, in turn, receive answers from the accused country, either through its government or its citizenry....the next step could be taken.
If you could cyberly attend the next deliberative meeting of your own town council and place in the record your testimony for or against an impotant pending issue, and have your comments immediately accessible to all the other residents of your town, the next step in participatory democracy could be taken.
If we could use the Internet to cyberly hold deliberative meetings where issues were raise, discussions held and votes taken all in a written archival format, the next step in participatory democracy could be taken and the world would never be the same -- the Internet, the Wisdom of the Crowd and democracy would merge into an unstoppable force towards the light of reason, dialog and understanding.
ex animo
davidfarrar-
I see where you're coming from but at the local and national levels there are major participatory issues which I'm not sure can be overcome. Can I give you an example?
At University - we had a lecture where we hooked up by the internet in the lecture theatre with four students abroad. One in China, one in Germany and one in Sweden and America. We engaged in cross cultural talks and political discussion for over an hour. Our professor was delighted with the way things went and at the end announced 'Now I'll introduce you to those four students you so seriously engaged with' - It was in fact two students hiding in a cupboard in the lecture theatre who were engaging with us.
If I were to engage with politicians at the local level via the internet they would have to be confident that I had the right to be there.
Ben
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I never said it was going to be easy or incorruptible. All I am saying is it can be done, and that the benefits would certainly outweigh the negatives.
And as far as your example goes....the Credential Committee would address that issue.
ex animo
davidfarrar-
In that respect I totally agree.
Ben
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By the way,
In your example, you were dealing with video-conferencing. I am thinking more about a cyber deliberative process that would include both the written record as well as the video record.
While the video record is more entertaining, the written is far more efficient
ex animo
davidfarrar -
Do you not think that it might be of benefit to petition
a more independent organization such as "Amnesty International" and "Human Writes Watch" to voice our opinion
to the U.N ,as they are certainly more approachable. and have
some what of an already established credibility ?-
Well, Raven, my point is, we are really not doing any kind of "value" assessment with our blogs entries.
I was just looking at this website in a little more depth and suddenly realized there is not even an attempt by Blogcat to assign any type of a value assessment to the blogs that participated. It seems as if Rich simply submitted the first ten and let CNN decide which ones it wanted to use.
I think there is now a Web list being created so people can at least go to the entries....but why can't we go further?
As far as Amnesty International goes, we (meaning Blogcat) should look into some sort of deliberative, interactive web-presence with AI. I am sure there are many ideas out there. Think about how we can actually engage the issue in a cyber sense -- how about holding a cyber conference with AI and invite each country AI has a problem to participate in the discussion. We could even ask Blogcat participants to blog the conference, poll the responses and go from there. Actually, it's not hard to come up with something...anything is better than nothing; don't you think?
ex animo
davidfarrar
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David, it's alright to be skeptic, it means you are thinking.
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Thank you, earthingorgeous
And realizing this also comes from a thinking mind.
ex animo
davidfarrar
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~davidfarrar
"As far as Amnesty International goes, we (meaning Blogcat) should look into some sort of deliberative, interactive web-presence with AI."
This is what I was suggesting!
My concern as well as others "that I know" who are reading
this, Is the apparent lack follow up on the momentum created by "Blogcat"(meaning the community) then again it maybe to
soon to judge,for I'm sure it will take awhile sort through all of the entries.
created
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