Palin gave a great speech tonight. Do you agree ? // General Discussion // BlogCatalog

9/03/08

DrowseyMonkey

If you equate snarky with great. Yep, she did a great job.

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9/03/08

globalgirl

Here are the transcripts and audio file of Palin's speech tonight:

www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=94118910
9/03/08

DrowseyMonkey

I already watched it.
9/03/08

globalgirl

The link is for others as well...
9/03/08

Anok

I already blogged it, but f you want to check me for accuracy - I know I missed a couple of sentences somewhere towards the end.
9/03/08

DrowseyMonkey

oh, it's just it was as a reply to what I said.

9/03/08

Arashmania

Why did she have to bring all her family on stage? To me that shows lack of professionalism. That's something I would have done had I been nominated ; )

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9/03/08

csiunatc

Her family has been in the spotlight, and she showed that she's not ashamed of having them there. Good Call.

Also i have to say that her youngest daughter probably took in a couple thousand votes on cuteness alone..
9/03/08

poisonapplesauce

@ Arashamania- if you look at videos of her previous appearances, they are almost always with her... or at least in the audience, which is why I always laugh when people say she "leaves her kids behind to follow a career". I don't find it unprofessional I agree with sciunatc that is was a good call.
9/03/08

thewriterspulse

My issue with her presenting her family is that...if family is supposed to be off-the-table, why do we have to keep putting them back onto it?

But anyway, my only real problem with Palin at this point is her voice. I just find it...annoying. That's stupid, I know, but it had to be said.

But other than that, I wasn't really paying attention (I did the same thing with the DNC...it was on, but only in the background). I heard what she said about reform and being an outsider, and if McCain gets elected, I hope she at the very least sticks to her word and keeps that in mind.

But I'm honestly not willing to believe anything said in a political speech, regardless who gives it.
9/04/08

lisamcglaun

I think all candidates of all parties do that. It evokes an emotional reaction. That's just the way it is.

9/03/08

csiunatc

And i LOVED when Giulliani made the statement about how dare they accuse her "not having time for her family" and how that statement wouldn't be put to a man.

Last time i checked.. Obama has kids too? Why isn't anyone questioning that?

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9/03/08

cooper

I was watching the US Open heard a bit on the news honestly it was snarKy and not really professional but I just saw a piece of it.

Good point about family being off the table. McCain camp already said the election is not about the issues its about the story so they presented a story I guess. I think from what I saw on a clip Huckabee had a more presidential type speech and she sounded like she was running a contentious race for the PTA.
9/03/08

Anok

Obama's kids are older, and don't have down syndrome, or are pregnant, and there is only two of them.
9/03/08

Anok

Oh, and about the PTA - both she and Mrs/ McCain have decided to use her membership to the PTA as "experience" in politics.

I kid you not.
9/04/08

MidwestMom

Actually, csi-lunatic (sorry, it's the best I can do...)

The Obama family has worked to make sure that one of the parents is home every evening to put the children to bed and they live close enough to their grandparents that they can always be with a sheltering family member.

I have to say that it would have disturbed me to distraction to see my own child being held by Cindy McCain or any other acquaintance/stranger at a tender 4 months old. As a mom, that really bothered me.
9/04/08

Anok

I'm glad I'm not the only one who felt that way, Midwest Mom...I actually did a double take, when the camera panned on that scene.

I'd like to say what I'm really thinking, but lord knows, we can't question her family values!
9/04/08

MidwestMom

We can, and I absolutely did on my blog. (see the link below)

Sarah Palin does not speak to my experience as a mother... at all.

9/03/08

Arashmania

It's just too obvious that she wants to project family values, the motherly image etc ... A question: Would she take all of them to the White House as well?

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9/03/08

csiunatc

Or maybe she just is what she claims to be? Family oriented and values family?
9/04/08

MidwestMom

I actually blogged about this a bit this morning...

Is Sarah Palin "Every-Mom?"
midwestmoms.blogspot.com
9/04/08

Arashmania

Great blog!

9/03/08

beinki

She did very well. I can't wait to watch her debate.

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9/03/08

thefly

I felt like I was watching a set from a stand up comedian. Too much sarcasm and snark. I wonder if she can be this "effective" in delivering her snarky points in debates without her notes and pre-written speech.

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9/03/08

DrowseyMonkey

Yes, I agree. And her phonetic pronunciation of all the tricky foreign words...makes me think she's never said them before. Yikes.

9/03/08

lot2learn

I liked the fact that her family was there, and I am glad they came onstage with her. I saw a family that resembles my own.

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9/04/08

clioandme

That qualifies her for the presidency? (You know, that heartbeat away thing.)
9/04/08

MidwestMom

lot2learn --

Her family is fundamentally different from my own, and she seems to be working from an entirely different definition of what it means to be a parent than I do.

I was looking for an introduction to her policy stances on issues, perhaps something meaningful about what sets her apart. I found that she was an engaging speaker. Her joke delivery and timing were good. She needs a new hair stylist (sorry, that was just as snarky as most of her comments last night.) But, beyond that, I would say I learned very little about her last night. Considering that I was willing to give her a listen, I came away disappointed.
9/04/08

lisamcglaun

Her family looks like mine but MY family is not representative of the entire nation nor do I think it should be...just pointing that out.

9/03/08

MadameX

I was very surprised to see someone who has come this far in politics speaking so amateurishly. I didn't think the content of her speech was anything special, but it was the exaggerated faces that she made and the way she would hold a face and wait for a reaction that reminded me of a middle-school student trying to create dramatic effect in a class speech or something. I have some experience hiring and training public speakers, and if she'd made it through the audition at my company (unlikely), it would have been with a very long list of action steps.

I think I was one of the few Democrats who believed that McCain had made a smart move in choosing her (not based on credentials, but on her ability to help him get elected), but I think that she gave him more of a boost in still photographs and the printed word than she does in three dimensions.

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9/03/08

DrowseyMonkey

Thank you. My goodness, after reading & listening to other people's responses I was starting to think I was on another planet. Even the media seems to be giving her a break.
9/03/08

Anok

The media is all upset because they had the audacity to address her gender, and familial responsibilities (not necessarily related to her gender, but rather the intensity of her family situation) and so have backed off, for a little while.

But she, of course, and everyone else got a free pas to use her gender and situation to further the campaign

One of the delegates on the floor actually said to the interviewer that after the media lashing, they expect for Palin to get some "sympathy Backlash" at the convention.

I kid you not.
*barf*
9/04/08

clioandme

Thanks for that insight, Tiffany.
9/04/08

MadameX

Okay, an interesting counterpoint. I made a comment similar to the one I made above here to a colleague, someone else who has spent years in the position of evaluating and training public speakers. He is not a supporter of Palin's politics, but was very surprised by my reaction and described her speech as "the best I've seen in the last two weeks". Maybe it isn't just skittishness on the part of the media; some people are obviously seeing something we're not.
9/04/08

clioandme

A new polarizing candidate in the Republican party? Hmmm. Sounds familiar.
9/04/08

Linc4Justice

I thought her speech was brilliantly executed and her accent grew on me the more she spoke.

As for family being off limits, she's not going to hide them in a dungeon. She's obviously proud of them and loves them. What's off limits is not her family, but viciously and callously intruding into their private affairs in some of the most reprehensible manner I have ever seen in a long, long time.

If you think there's no double standard with the media look no further than John Edwards. 8 months they knew he had an affair, even while he was running for President and it was still buried.

BTW Anok, your analysis on the convention was incoherent and childish, but I'd expect nothing less from a liberal.

DrowseyMonkey: You're living up to your moniker. LOL
9/04/08

Anok

My analysis was written as it was happening, and I typed my reactions as they occurred.

My points are spot on, although a bit jumbled, as the convention was happening in real time.

Then again, I clearly stated that at the beginning of teh post, so your comprehension skills are lacking.

And I am an Anarchist, not a liberal, but way to get into more slanderous mudslinging!

9/03/08

Anok

I blogged the whole convention tonight. it's in two parts, teh warm up, and Palin's speech, in almost it's entirety.

I was not impressed with the content of her speech. The first 15-20 minutes was about how she was a happy hockey mom, the rest of it was either fear mongering, bashing, and a list of things she wants to do, but didn't seem to be able to elaborate.

Oh, and the McCain war hero stories.

I did notice a noticeable LACK of McCain tonight. Why didn't he appear to welcome his new running mate?

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9/03/08

CrotchetyOldMan

He did
9/03/08

Anok

When? I watched the whole thing, until it cut to the analysts.
9/03/08

DrowseyMonkey

He came in at the end.
9/03/08

Anok

Ah, the analysts must have cut that part off.
9/03/08

DrowseyMonkey

He didn't do much. Just said she was great, hugged them all, the usual. Her family looked pretty shell-shocked thru-out the whole nite.
9/03/08

Anok

Her husband looked proud.
9/03/08

thefly

I agree Anok. This speech to me felt almost as gimmicky as her nomination. Nothing about it made me say "ok, she seems competent" but moreso, "she likes jokes and being snarky" Where's the policies, the views, the issues, the ideas. Very thin on meat and thick on bone, those types of steaks arent even worth it.
9/03/08

CrotchetyOldMan

Have you ever seen a convention before? That's what the speeches are like.
9/03/08

thefly

Of course Ive seen them before and if she is supposed to be different and pave the way for reform then why was her speech so mundane just like the mold you pointed out. I dont know, I didnt find it at all exciting.
9/03/08

Anok

Yup, I've seen more than my fair share of conventions.

This is the time to deliver the goods. Instead, she delivered home baked cookies.
9/04/08

kristilinauer

And Obama's speech had substance? Seriously? Here's what I got from him: "I promise you the world, and I won't raise your taxes." If bullsh*t is the substance you're looking for, then yes, his speech had plenty of it.
9/04/08

Anok

Yes, his speech had substance.

He actually talked about the policies he planned on initiating, and how they would work. For the majority of his speech, actually. He also countered some of McCain's policies, but kept the mudslinging at bay, and focused on the policies. He gave us some meat to chew on.

Unlike Palin, and the rest of the speakers, whose speeches added up to "Terrorism, be afraid, tax cuts, terrorism, Palin's a great mother, I'm a proud mommy blah blah blah."
9/04/08

Wisco

And Obama's speech had substance? Seriously? Here's what I got from him: "I promise you the world, and I won't raise your taxes." If bullsh*t is the substance you're looking for, then yes, his speech had plenty of it.

Obama's speech had specifics. Palin's speech boiled down to "liberals suck." Otherwise, it was pretty damned vague. And I didn't just listen to it, I read it. Meanwhile, she managed to avoid mentioning George W. Bush, the Republican party, and the entire Afghanistan war.

Seems to me a big ol' flaming war is kind of important. It might be worth a passing mention.

9/03/08

CrotchetyOldMan

He came on at the end

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9/03/08

Arcticulates

I think she did a fabulous job. I was happy to see her with the kids too. They make a beautiful family. Her hubby is a handsome man and he looks quite at ease with the baby and kids, and he looked very proud of his wife.

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9/03/08

clioandme

Oh no. She's still parading her kids? The same ones that are off limits to any criticism? No, there's no contradiction there, as long as we put on our Palin glasses and learn to talk like her too: www.npr.org/blogs/visibleman/2008/09/your_pocket_guide_to_speaking_1.html
9/04/08

Arcticulates

@Markstoneman:
She has kids! That's not gonna change. There is nothing wrong with her family supporting her during her first big speech to the Country. I would want my family there too. How many men have had their families up there with them? It is not a new thing!

If her kids weren't there I am sure there would be snarky (as "Drowsey" likes to say) remarks about that too...

People can't win no matter what they do!
9/04/08

Anok

Half of her speech was about her "off limits" family, and how she was an "off limits" mom, and "off limits" woman.

Nope, no contradiction there. She and the campaign are making sure to use her family and her gender, and her motherhood as much as they can, but no one else can say anything about it...nope, no sir.

I actually got the impression that she was whining about the press's reaction to her, and her family's situation. Like the "big, mean media is picking on me!"

if she continues to use her family to dodge talking about policy, the media and everyone else will naturally focus on it.
9/04/08

clioandme

She can use her kids if she wants, but she needs to assume some responsibility for any attacks she and her daughter have to endure. I won't go there and neither will the Obama campaign, but many will, and Palin doesn't need to pretend she's surprised by it, even if disingenuous umbrage fits right into the McCain playbook.
markstoneman.wordpress.com/2008/08/05/disingenuous-umbrage/
markstoneman.wordpress.com/2008/08/14/mccains-ethnically-charged-scare-tact...
9/04/08

Arcticulates

@anok: I didn't get that impression at all, but then again I like her so I won't be looking for anything to pick apart.

I also have been in the State where some much needed changes were made because of her tenacity..

She should introduce her family, they deserve recognition, they are also supporting their country by supporting their mom, just like they would if it were their dad standing on that stage...
9/04/08

Anok

Having her kids on stage is normal - talking about her family for half of the speech which was supposed to be about politics, is not.

Would a male candidate have gotten away with such a mushy speech?

If you had watched the run up speeches and analysis before hand, coupled with her speech you would have known that yes, she is blaming the media for questioning her and her family and their situation. Yes, she was whining.

If she can't handle that pressure, I doubt she will do well in the White house.

9/03/08

Wisco

I thought it was a pretty standard speech. It was aimed pretty much at the base. The McCain campaign is closing ranks, hoping they've got enough support, and working on getting them out the vote. The debate is pretty much over on that side.

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9/03/08

Anok

That was my opinion too.
9/03/08

clioandme

That's pretty much what I'm hearing from a conservative friend, who concedes that McCain had more work to do in this area than Democrats ever had to do with Senator Clinton's supporters. It's important to keep this in mind. Only then does the Palin pick begin to make sense—politically, not from the point of view of her fitness for office.

9/03/08

maboulette

Actually I had to leave the room - her voice grated on me! Sorry - it is just me I guess - it was a good speech - well written but no - I can't handle her. Its just the first chapter anyway - I am sure that there will be plenty more. I agree with Madame X who put the words much better than I could.

By the way - Sept 15 is my 60th birthday - who will help me celebrate??

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9/03/08

DrowseyMonkey

yes, her voice is hard to take for long periods of time. Reminds me of Peg Hill...from King of the Hill, lol.

9/03/08

clioandme

Just got home from work. Dunno if I want to deal with it tonight or wait till tomorrow morning. There're Romney, Huckabee, and Guliani to hear too. Gotta love the Republican party. I'll give Palin one thing: she's not any of these guys. But she's also more of the same social conservatism combined with the promise of more culture wars. What joy.

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9/03/08

Anok

Don't forget the CEO's of fortune 500 companies he had there singing his praises!

Nooo, his focus isn't on the upper 5% of the country
9/03/08

clioandme

More like 0.5%. Or so it feels.

9/04/08

clioandme

Techfun pointed out elsewhere how a woman was escorted out during the Palin speech: www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBWmRWQ8wE4
Anyone know why?

And what do you all think of all those empty seats?

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9/04/08

Anok

It was probably a cod epink lady. They get inside and get into trouble all of the time

From what i say, halfway through there had been about 300 arrests made outside of the convention, including journalists.

Three times as many as the DNC.

I thought the empty seats were fitting, actually
9/04/08

clioandme

The media should pan those empty seats more often. They could give it the same play they gave interest in Obama. You know, equal time, objectivity and all that.
9/04/08

DrowseyMonkey

Well, maybe the media is on her side. Wolf Blitzer, of all people, says the speach was a knock out ... or something to that effect. Some baseball reference, lol. It's like the media is skiddish now. Even on MSNBC Chris Matthews seems to be in love with her or something, HA! (as he says)
9/04/08

clioandme

Maybe you need to start watching PBS.
9/04/08

thewriterspulse

I get the sense that the media, after being accused of sexism and such, has backed off quite a bit. But who knows -- maybe they really thought it was super great.
9/04/08

MadameX

I agree with your assessment that his numbers are way off base; Ijust don't think this poll proves it, since it's more about assessing what people think the impact on others was than their personal reactions and provides far too narrow a range of choices.

9/04/08

thefly

Im rewatching the Palin speech and they showed security taking out some woman protesting. Had her bear gripped around the arm and shoved up the stairs to leave. Blink and you would have missed it.

buzz buzz

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9/04/08

clioandme

Same as this one? www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBWmRWQ8wE4
Same empty seats too?
9/04/08

thefly

haha, yep. What a joke of a convention. It feels so small in scale. Like they are focusing on a certain 5% of the upper population.

buzz buzz
9/04/08

Linc4Justice

thefly: So I'm guessing you're part of the 95 percent of the population that collects welfare?
9/04/08

thefly

nope, no welfare for me but Im not rich either. Just the 95% of the population that didnt find her speech exciting or relevant to what mattered but instead a long drawn out smear campaign with "jokes" Yeah, John McCain, you chose a comedian for the next VP, good job.
9/04/08

kristilinauer

95%?? Better take another look:

Was VP pick Sarah Palin's speech effective in introducing herself and boosting John McCain's campaign? * 366969 responses

58% Yes. Her speech proves she is ready for an all-out fight.

25% No. She spent too much time trying to mock Obama.

17% It remains to be seen what she can do on the campaign trail without a teleprompter and speech writer.
9/04/08

MadameX

Were those the only options, Kristi? Because none of them in any way speak to the negatives I perceived. Forced to choose among those three, I probably would have defaulted to the last because it's the least committal, but I might even have chosen the first...and I honestly think she is the worst public speaker I've ever seen at this level of government.
9/04/08

kristilinauer

www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26536487?GT1=43001

Yes, those are the only three.

Of course, it's not a scientific survey, but I think it pretty much flies in the face of thefly's assertion that "95% of the population...didnt find her speech exciting or relevant."
9/04/08

melindaville

@kristilinauer--I know you said that the poll was unscientific but I do think the results are indicative of an audience that was already in her camp. I am a registered democrat and I did watch her speech--but likely many dems did not. The majority of the television viewing audience was likely more conservative than not. Just as the majority of Obama's was likely in his camp.
9/06/08

Linc4Justice

[...and I honestly think she is the worst public speaker I've ever seen at this level of government....]

Funny, a lot of people said the same thing about Abe Lincoln. But you keep on training public speakers, dear, I'm sure you're doing a bangup job.

9/04/08

Theresa111

Envelope being town open .... rip ... "And The Academy Award Goes To ... Sarah Palin and Rudy Giuliani!"

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9/04/08

Theresa111

here you go news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080904/ap_on_el_pr/cvn_palin_76

Star Studded Performance!

9/04/08

alexmcone

Umm guys not meaning to butt in but for those interested here's another blog post about Palin's speech. (not mine, but I thought it kinda cool)

anna.typepad.com/herstory/2008/09/liveblogging-sa.html

Hey anyone have any pics of the speech ?

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9/04/08

clioandme

Pictures? You poor, depraved man.
9/04/08

Theresa111

www.yahoo.com see all the photos you want.

9/04/08

TOMDDiary

It is easy to write a speech. It is a talent to be able to deliver the speech. End result: we have 2 great speechmakers. It proves nothing. Without implying anything, some of the worst figures in history were great speechmakers. The best example is Hitler. Look what he gave to mankind. what I am saying is this: speechs are great but it proves nothing. In the end, people vote from their "gut" and hope that the vote is correct. Either one of these party choices could be great or awful in their performance. Time will tell.

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9/04/08

JewishAngle

I thought her speech was entertaining and worth staying up for. I wanted to get a sense of her. She's smart, she's attractive, and she has a great presence. The little daughter pasting down her brother's hair was priceless.

No, I don't want her as vice president. But each time she and the other speakers pointed to Obama's lack of experience, it reminded me why I voted for Hilary Clinton in the primary.

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9/04/08

IanThal

Expectations were so low that it was hard for her to fail. She's personable, but her speech was largely lacking in substance, and said nothing on her behalf that RNC operatives haven't already been saying for the last several days, she said nothing on McCain's behalf that other speakers hadn't already said (and said better.)

So she stuck to her talking points.

Of course what was particularly interesting about the entire convention is that their rhetoric seems to be all about ignoring the policies that Republicans have pushed over the last eight years and blame every disaster, error, and folly on the Democrats.

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9/04/08

RuinousRight

I don't agree.

Although the speech was delivered rather well, it quickly shifted from family to fear mongering and smears. It was predictable given the right's history of scaring citizens for votes and negative campaigning. What about the issues facing America??

This strategy may fire up the Republican base, but it doesn't change the fact that a McCain-Palin administration would mean four more years of failed bush-Cheney policies.

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9/04/08

nctrower

I wasn't impressed with her speech at all. It reeked of high school mentality to me.

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9/04/08

IanThal

Yes, the "high school" allusion is apt.
9/04/08

nctrower

I forgot to add that I love the fact that they bring the kids on stage. I also have a special needs child but I still wasn't impressed w/her.

9/04/08

EAMS4

I like what Sarah Palin can bring to the table and was crossing my fingers she would do well speaking at the national level and she did an awesome job. This is obviously a democratic thread (I am a democrat myself) but am going with the McCain-Palin ticket. As far as her bringing her family on stage, didn't Obama and Biden do the same thing? I think she did really well when discussing the energy issue we face and options for resolve. In terms of education, she will be an asset for those families who have special needs children in public schools (you don't want me to go there believe me -- if you don't have a SPED kid you wouldn't understand). I also think she laid out perfectly well why she is qualified for this position and she has my support. Like it or lump it, she has more experience than Obama. Posters in this thread can taint it all they want to but that is the fact.

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9/04/08

IanThal

Speaking as someone who has an adult sibling with special needs, and whose parents were strong disabled rights activists who didn't just fight for our family but for people all across America, I have seen only the most luke-warm support for the Americans with Disabilities Act (the civil-rights act for disabled people) and special needs education from the Republicans during their years in congress and the White House.

Whatever her newly found sympathies, there's an underlying lack of civic duty towards the less fortunate in the Republican party; and that party is going to have to have a change in values first.
9/04/08

RuinousRight
"Like it or lump it, she has more experience than Obama."

Palin may have more 'executive' experience than Obama. She has more 'executive' experience than McCain.... but look how things really stack up:

Barak Obama
- B.A in political science from Columbia University, with a specialization in international relations
- J.D. in Law from Hardvard, graduated magna cum laude; President of the Harvard Law Review
- 12 years (92-04) teaching constitutional law
- 7 years State Senator: sponsored more than 800 bills
- 4 years Senator for Illinos, a state with 12.8 million people
Sara Palin
- Bachelor’s in journalism from University of Idaho
- 4 years Wasilla City Council (8000 people)
- 6 years Wasilla mayor (8000 people)
- 1 year “Ethics Commissioner of the Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Commission”
- 20 months governor of a state with 660,000 people
Either way, a vote for McCain-Palin means four more years of failed Bush-Cheney policy.
9/04/08

Anok

Yup, I pick solid education and over all experience with a proven track record over not any day.
9/04/08

kristilinauer

"Whatever her newly found sympathies, there's an underlying lack of civic duty towards the less fortunate in the Republican party; and that party is going to have to have a change in values first."

I had to laugh at this statement, as this, in my mind, is one of the biggest differences between Reps and Dems.

Dems rely on government programs to take care of the less fortunate--government programs which require increasingly more and more taxpayer money, and which, more times than not, end up falling shamefully short of the goal. Reps don't think it's the government's duty, but it's a personal responsibility to take care of the less fortunate. And all indications show that Republicans not only believe this, but ACT on this, as on the whole, Republicans are more charitable and generous with their money.

Darn those pesky little facts.
9/04/08

Anok

Kristi, I would like to see the statistics proving that Republicans as a whole, donate more to charity than Democrats, and moreover, that they do so because they are Republican?

I am an Anarchist, a poor one at that. I make the time and effort to donate whatever I can, four times a year, and donate money whenever my budget allows it.

VS my mother, a wealthier Republican who donates nothing. She did take pity on a homeless man though, and allows him to take away her cans.
9/04/08

kristilinauer

www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/03/conservatives_more_liberal_giv.h...
9/04/08

MidwestMom

@IanThai

I agree. I was disturbed by her statement that families of special needs children will have an advocate in the administration... It would be great to believe that, but having just witnessed her making the choice to leave her son and "take the show on the road" when he's only 4 months old, I wonder whether she has even *started* to understand the challenges he may face.
9/04/08

Anok

Thank you for the link, but I see no citations or studies to confirm anything.

I do see a lot of conjecture and projection, however.
9/07/08

AmmoBob

@Anok,

Here is the source. It was in the 2nd paragraph...

"Arthur C. Brooks, a professor at Syracuse University, published "Who Really Cares: The Surprising Truth About Compassionate Conservatism."

9/04/08

Arcticulates

@EAMS4
You will notice that most of the threads on US Politics here on BC are dominated by the those who sway Democratic. And also by those who don't live in USA.
I find them amusing! But I am willing to admit they do make "some" good points.

Sarah Palin will be an asset to 'families' that thrive in the US. One thing that the United States has seemed to start doing is acting like 'families' do not exist.

Or having a big family is somehow backward and shameful. Yet it's the parents of the 'families' in the 'small' towns and cities in America that keep this great country running..

[reply]

9/04/08

Anok

Are you sure about that?

All of the "food we grow" part isn't grown by family farms any more, it's Big Agriculture (where I live now, we are fighting very hard to keep family farms operating under Big Agro pressure) The Hub of jobs and American made cars and products in cities like Detroit are being shut down, and shipped out.

The majority of the military is made up of poor, inner city kids, and young adults.

What industries, exactly, are up and running by rural families that are keeping this country running? That used to be true, but not any more.
9/04/08

Arcticulates

@anok:
lol...yes I am sure or I wouldn't have said it...There is a lot more to United States then big industry...

The military is made up of men and women who "volunteer" to lay their lives down for their country...there is nothing shameful about that!
9/04/08

Anok

You didn't answer my question.

In Palin's speech, she talked about all of these industries and areas as being the backbone of this country (the sentiment you echoed in your post) and yet, all of those industries are either being shipped out, closed up, or shifted over to Big Business.

The families that once provided everything this country needed to run smoothly and efficiently no longer do.

So what, exactly, are you talking about?

Edit, where did I say anything about shame and military?
9/04/08

Arcticulates

@anok:
I did answer your question...did you skip over that part! I said "There is a lot more to United States then big industry..."

When you said:
"The majority of the military is made up of poor, inner city kids, and young adults".

Is where I got the impression that you are ashamed of those serving in the military. If I was wrong in the impression. I apologize!
9/04/08

Anok

OK, misundertsanding settlled

But that doesn't answer my question, still.

What are you talking about, specifically?

Yet it's the parents of the 'families' in the 'small' towns and cities in America that keep this great country running..

How? Where? Why? If you aren't talking about what Palin was talking about last night (agriculture, American made factory workers...) then what are you talking about?

And why are the families in big cities (where there is decidedly MORE families and people contributing to society) left out?

New York City alone has 8 million people residing in it, do they not "keep this country running"?
9/04/08

MidwestMom

I live in a small town in a rural area. I am the mother of a "family" (why are you putting that in quotes?) I come from a family larger than Gov. Palin's... so does my husband.

And yet...

She does not represent us or our views. At all.

I was shocked by last night's speech, not because Palin was a gifted speaker -- she clearly delivered her lines as rehearsed -- and not because her talk was shockingly short on policy detail... I was shocked because I had a little window into the decision-making they were engaged in on a family level. I had a front row seat to Palin family parenting and did not like it one bit.

I know that may seem "out of bounds" to some, but I will not allow someone to hold themselves up as a paragon of motherhood while I sit and watch their family, with one son volunteering to go to war, a daughter pregnant, and a tiny special-needs baby all trying to manage while "Mommy" follows her ambitious path.

I found it really unsettling. So, don't start with how great the whole 'family' thing is and how it's going to just blow the doors off the election.

For those of us who live and breathe family, it was a pretty sad display.
9/04/08

Arcticulates

@anok: ahhhhhhhh.... words...

I guess I should have said "help" keep this country running..

Secretaries, food service workers, plumbers, construction workers, teachers, janitors, farmers, small business owners etc, etc. are just as important as "big industry". My opinion...is that there's more to this country then "big industry"

@midwestmom..
Families are "families" because of the importance I am trying to protray in the only way I know how while typing... I apologize if that offends you.
9/04/08

MidwestMom

@articulates

There was no offense, I just didn't know why it was always in quotes. Try using the brackets that look like sideways V (I guess they're "less-than" and "greater-than" symbols) with the letters em in-between and then use the same brackets with /em at the end of the word you want to emphasize.

In terms of big industry and the US being make up of more than just the big whigs, I agree. I just don't think the Republican party is giving credible answers to the problems that all the non-corporate folks are having right now. I heard about taxes last night, especially for small business owners, but there was no mention of the fact that small business owners can be driven out of business by healthcare costs or can forgo coverage only to go out of business when they or a family member gets sick. I also heard nothing about the falling dollar and the challenges that places upon businesses who have suppliers overseas.

I heard little or no actual policy relevant to the issues that those of us in rural communities face -- like the fact that increasing foreclosures will place a higher property tax burden on us all while our home values plummet or that infrastructure costs in rural America are disproportionately high (lots of roads, few to pay for them).

Small towns in our area also have an aging population, so there are issues of care for the elderly and the high cost of fuel for people on fixed incomes that are a major concern. "Drill Baby Drill" doesn't come close to touching that.

So, when Palin says she identifies with small town people, I need to hear more than just lip service paid to that... I need to see what she thinks about policy. Because if it is the same cr*p that McCain has been spouting, I think I'll take what's behind Door #2.
9/04/08

Arcticulates

@midwestmom;

Thank-you for the tip

I agree with you, I want to see and hear solutions rather then jabs at the other candidates running.. I am tired of the same ole' thing every election.
9/04/08

Anok

Arctic, there are far more jobs being held like the ones you mentioned in big cities than in rural towns, and people from all types of families hold them.

I don't know why "small town families" who hold down these jobs in smaller numbers are helping the country run more so than large city families and singles who hold these jobs in record numbers comparatively speaking.

Why is there even a distinction? Why not just say - she's trying to relate to small town, large families and leave it at that?
9/04/08

MidwestMom

@articulates

Yay! Nice italics!

I agree. I was willing to sit and give her a real listen. At first, I found her engaging, but as time wore on, the constant negativity and condescending treatment of the other candidates in the race left a bad taste in my mouth. I kept waiting to hear what she has done -- I came away with two things:

1) she put the governor's jet on ebay

2) she advocates obstructionist use of veto power for budget purposes

I don't find either of those things compelling reasons to vote for someone. In fact, I found few of the issues important to me even mentioned.

As far as I'm concerned, even though she showed confidence and a gift for delivering a speech, I think she blew a major opportunity.
9/07/08

AmmoBob

Arcticulates,

An interesting read in the Wall Street Journal about families and the conservatives and liberals. "Liberal politics will prove fruitless as long as liberals refuse to multiply."

www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110008831

9/04/08

melindaville

She gave an effective speech that was aimed at a particularly enthusiastic group--but I don't think she will be nearly as effective in debates. I agree with everyone else who was bothered by her snarkiness. I didn't like her before and I liked her much less after the speech.

I cannot stand this woman! Ick, ick, ick!

[reply]

9/04/08

clioandme

Regarding the pit bull analogy, do mean pit bulls think or do they just attack anything in sight?

I just published a very long piece making a case against Palin. In fact, it's the longest blog post I have right now, so the governor should feel honored.

markstoneman.wordpress.com/2008/09/04/the-case-against-sarah-palin/

Of course, some of the things that count against her in my eyes will count for her in others' eyes. I wrote it more for people who don't know about her extreme views.

[reply]

9/04/08

Anok

Read, commented, and stumbled.
9/04/08

clioandme

Thanks Anok, both for the comment and stumble. I do hope to get a decent audience for it, since I spent so much time on the thing.
9/04/08

melindaville

I also read your article and thought it was outstanding. Left you a comment as well. Now, I am off to read anok's!
9/04/08

Anok

I should have just not written my newest op-ed ramble and linked to your well written article

We'll try and get you stumbled, dugg, and everything else
9/04/08

Theresa111

thank you Anok. I was hoping someone who knew how to Stumble Mark's article, would. Thank you.
9/04/08

RuinousRight

Good article Mark.

DUGG: digg.com/2008_us_elections/The_Case_Against_Sarah_Palin
9/04/08

RuinousRight

[error: double post]
9/04/08

opinionstreams

@mark - dugg. Can't stumble from work, but will try to remember to do so from home.
9/04/08

clioandme

Thank you all.

9/04/08

opinionstreams

What did I think of Palin's speech? I think she replaced substance and debate with sarcasm and deception. I wrote an article on my blog describing her deceptive spin on Obama's policies and revealing the truth.

opinionstreams.com/blog/?p=48

[reply]

9/04/08

MidwestMom

I liked your fack-check section. Good job.
9/04/08

melindaville

I really loved your piece and left you a comment.
9/04/08

opinionstreams

Thanks so much guys
9/04/08

Anok

Excellent post, Read, commented and stumbled.
9/04/08

opinionstreams

Thanks Anok

9/04/08

voodooKobra

I missed it because I was at college all day yesterday (and thus came home tired). And right now I completely lack the energy to sit through it.

[reply]

9/04/08

melindaville

You didn't really miss all that much. Just a lot of snarky attacks, a lot of half truths and a bold attempt at manipulating voters to pull for this "middle america hockey mom." Barf.
9/04/08

voodooKobra

I caught snippets of it because it's the only thing on CNN today, and it prompted me to post the following on the front page of Kobra's Corner:

Dear Politicians, Pundits, and the American People:

The reason the Republicans nominated Sarah Palin for Vice President is that she makes a good distraction. Nothing more. By giving her so much attention, the American people are playing right into the hands of the Republican scheme.

What are they trying to distract us from? The piss-poor Republican policies. Think about it.

Sincerely,
Kobra

P.S. Democrats usually aren't a whole lot better. This election year's an exception.
9/04/08

Anok

Got to love your blunt style, Voodoo
9/04/08

melindaville

You nailed it with this:

"What are they trying to distract us from? The piss-poor Republican policies"

Ain't that the truth.
9/04/08

opinionstreams

As usual voodoo, very straight to the point...and a good one at that.
9/04/08

csiunatc

Don't know. Being that media is mostly pro Obama, Maybe they are trying to distract from his lack of experience. That his wife only is proud of her country when her husband is nominated. That he gives credit for his moral development to an angry and racist man.

Or that he was the ONLY member who voted against allowing victims of sexual crimes to protect their integrity and seal the court records.
Yes, the only one, of either side..

I don't know. i think there is much to distract from.
9/04/08

voodooKobra

csiuantic: Please provide a link to this alleged bill that he voted against. You should be able to find a copy online.

Afterward, let's look at every aspect of this bill and see if there was any reason he would have voted against it.
9/04/08

opinionstreams

@csi - I'll repost from another thread in which you made this slander:

"married to someone who isn't proud of their country" - That's a lie and you should know it. Besides, since you're following soundbits from Mrs. Obama's speeches so closely, perhaps you're also following McCain's, since he's also quoted saying he hasn't always been proud of America.

And if you're going to bring up Rev. Wright, I can bring up John Hagee. We can go at this all day. Why don't you just listen to Mark's point and talk issues?

[add - and I cosign voodoo's statement above]

9/04/08

cranelegs

one speech and she's margaret thatcher eye candy already, or so the claim of some gop insiders.
even rock star barack's climb to celeb pales to this new meteoric phenom.

and it hasn't even been a week yet, since we were all scampering to pronounce her name correctly.

and what have we been allowed to learn about her in the short time since?
she's a hockey mom, who by day is mild mannered household hero, sarah, but by night is freedom protector, alaska annie oakley, keeping the country's life blood flowing while saddled up with sixshooters pointed at the evil red menace beyond.
we have also learned that the difference between her and a pitbull is that she wears lipstick.
that's comforting i suppose, if dogfighting continues to be the way things get settled around these here parts.

well, call me elitist, but i would like to know a little more about her before the inevitable coronation in january.
a lot more.
like why she was for the bridge to nowhere before she was against it.
like why the "thanks but no thanks" didn't include returning the nowhere bridge money to the beltway badlands from where it came.
like why she was lobbying for earmarks before she was ear smacking lobbyists.
like what does a pitbull, lipstick or no lipstick, do about healthcare, the economy, and stuff that goes on outside the dog pen.

i don't know, i just want to understand what a maverick reformer plans to change.

and unfortunately it will be the "biased mass media" that will have to do the digging.
the same mass media that did such a splendid "biased" job during the build-up to the iraq war.
and digging is what will be called for, as it is already apparent that the traveling republican rodeo is going to keep alaska annie oakley corralled.

[reply]

9/04/08

ThriftShopRomantic

What I find I'm feeling sort of ill over is how much campaigning for both parties has just become personality product marketing. As humans, we tend to respond to someone we perceive is "just like us" and can't get beyond it.

As if we, as individuals seeing our faces reflected in our favorite candidate, could make the kinds of decisions a president of a country would have to.

Frankly, I want someone smarter, more savvy, and a better diplomat than I ever would be.

[reply]

9/04/08

Anok

I don't think you were trying to be funny, but your comment made me smile nonetheless.
9/04/08

ThriftShopRomantic

Heh, well, I was half trying to be funny. I'm IN marketing myself, and it still amazes me what folks choose to respond to.
9/04/08

voodooKobra

Exactly! I don't care if there's a 72 year-old black lesbian Catholic furry running for President. If she's the more competent candidate, she gets my vote.
9/04/08

csiunatc

I agree,

What state are you the governor of?
9/04/08

ThriftShopRomantic

Most days lately-- Disillusionment.
9/04/08

clioandme

I take it your job writing copy gives you some insight into this trend, Jenn?
9/04/08

MidwestMom

@thriftshopromantic

Thank you so much for your comment.

I try to be good at what I do -- I coach soccer and am involved at my sons' school... But this lady is nothing like me. I would not and could not make the choices she is making. (and there's no way PTA counts as experience worthy of becoming president! ... although Big Ruskie did say "MidwestMom 2012!" the other day.... that gets me thinkin...)

Oh! Sorry... back to reality -- what I would like to see is her stance on issues. I was really listening for that and came away so dissatisfied.

If she was marketing to me -- squarely within the "mothers with children" demographic -- her debut was a dismal failure.

@voodooK

Is there a furry running for President??!? Certainly not!
9/04/08

ThriftShopRomantic

@Mark I actually don't go this route when I write copy, but I've certainly had to analyze it in campaigns often enough.

9/04/08

lisamcglaun

Since it seems to be okay to post links to our blogs on this subject, let me add mine to the mix. I just put this up...this thread and an email I received last night about women's suffrage were the inspirations.

compassionate-news.blogspot.com/2008/09/on-shoulder-of-others-remember-thos...

[reply]

9/04/08

MidwestMom

[wrong spot]
9/04/08

lisamcglaun

Nope..that's the right link.
9/04/08

lisamcglaun

9/04/08

kdawg68

She's going to cream Biden in the VP debates. Just a hunch.

[reply]

9/04/08

Anok

I don't think so, not on this one. Biden cuts through the bologna pretty quickly, and he's very skilled and experienced at this. And she won't have a script or speech to work from.
9/04/08

csiunatc

It will be reverse biology..

Whatever comes out his mouth, she is going to shove up his...
9/04/08

voodooKobra

I agree with Anok.

Also, she's a creationist. Not to be prejudice, but most people with strong critical thinking skills aren't creationists. Debates are about facts and logic. In short: She's disadvantaged.
9/04/08

kdawg68

We'll see...I don't think he's got a chance against her. Usually I'm pretty good about predicting such things. Hell, predicting is what I do. I'm sure right now he's wishing McCain had picked Romney or Lieberman. Those guys he could've eaten for breakfast without any effort. I don't think he "matches up well" with Palin.

By the way, just to show I'm not a blind follower - Romney looks like Satan. There, I said it.
9/04/08

voodooKobra

We'll see, kdawg.
9/04/08

clioandme

Much will depend on the kinds of questions Gwen Ifel asks. I'm counting on her to make it harder than some moderators would. We'll see how Palin handles that.
9/04/08

Anok

The main problem he has is handling himself with regards to the public opinion.

If he's too hard on her, her group will call foul, if he's too soft, they say he's pandering.

Either way, he will piss off women who support her. So he is going to have to focus on policy, policy policy, and use his experience to simply derail all of the dodging she will be doing.
9/04/08

melindaville

If they are talking about any policies of anything of substance, she will not do well. She might do well in some of the staged debates but my guess is that she will not do as well when she is *forced* to actually talk policies and not just issue snarky soundbites.
9/04/08

MidwestMom

@markthecutepuppy

Well said. Gwen Ifill is arguably one of the best interviewers since Russert. She also has the advantage of being a woman, so Palin will lose any sympathy advantage she might have had if both her opponent and the moderator were male.
9/04/08

kdawg68

I'm with you, Anok, up until the "dodging" thing - as to me liberal "foriegn policy" hasn't a leg to stand on, but we alredy know we disagree about that.

So here's my bold prediction. They'll meet. They'll debate. Me and the repubs will think she won. You guys will swear Biden won. As a final prediction, I predict that each side will claim everything the other said was a lie, and then follow with some link to something the other group couldn't give a rat's ass about that purports to "prove it's all lies."

Yup- that's pretty much our M.O., isn't it? We're a predictable group of bastards, aren't we? I do love you guys even if I want to kick the snot out of your boys come election day. What's the old soldiers fare well? Good luck, god bless, see you in hell (oh wait..forgot, you lefties don't believe in god and think the world was begot in a graduated cylinder somewhere sitting atop a Bunson burner! HA - couldn't resist, one final jab).

My question - who's buying the popcorn and who wants to hold a party during the debates? We can arm-wrestle/thumb-wrestle to "prove" our beliefs superior!
9/04/08

Anok

I'll bring the beer

And I will SO rock your world in thumb wrestling. I will call you "beyotch!"
9/04/08

kdawg68

loser has to dress up as the other side's political mascot. Imagine, Anok the Pachyderm! Kdawg the ass!

let's do it!

9/04/08

Ratdog

What I thought most fun was Media frenzy when Palin said our government would be now between us and our hired political employees, they would no longer be allowed to feed us what they want us to believe in the name of unbiased journalism.

What was the last time you saw or heard even one 'unbiased' journalist?

Thanks.

[reply]

9/04/08

clioandme

This is part of the standard Republican playbook and is based on no facts. Here is a thread on the issue of media on the politics section of BC. It includes links to serious organizations that do media analysis.

www.blogcatalog.com/politics/discuss/entry/media-bias

9/04/08

datingdiaries30

I am an independent. I always vote for the best candidate. I think that Sarah's speech was fabulous. She showed me that she will fight back and won't put up with the sexist crap that has been going on in the media. Sarah Palin is a bulldog. The debates will tell all.

[reply]

9/04/08

dailymindjob

Fabulous? If you call fighting back telling barefaced lies and behaving rather juvenile, then yes, she fought back like a Conservative on stage at the RNC would for an applause. If you loved her speech, you fit into the Republican base completely detached from truth and you are only an Independent insofar as someone who doesn't want to get the blame, but will take all the credit for a vote. She's not a bulldog, but rather a pit bull with lipstick if I caught her quote right. No amount of lipstick is going to hide her juvenile snark. Same old dog with the same old tricks. Best candidate? Ha!
9/04/08

clioandme

@datingdiaries30: If you're an independent, than you'll also need to check her on the facts. Here's one story: www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=94290392

And you can find a long post on Stoneman's Corner that I linked above: www.blogcatalog.com/discuss/entry/palin-gave-a-great-speech-tonight-do-you-... You might decide the things I criticize are non-issues or are even things you like about her. But you might also learn things that make you feel uncomfortable. I've filled it full of links to a variety of sources so you can do further fact-checking for yourself. A speech by itself is not enough, especially one that was long on attacks and short of facts.
9/04/08

datingdiaries30

dailymindjob

I never said she was the best candidate. I said her speech was fabulous. I don't even agree with many of her positions. I do check the facts and weigh it all carefully. I do agree that there were untruths in her speech. The one that sticks out the most at this moment is when she said that Obama's plan called for raising certain taxes. If you read his detailed plan on taxes, he overall wants to lower or eliminate them for lower income and senior citizens. Both sides speak untruths about the other. That's just politics.

9/04/08

harleyblues

In plain slang, AMERICAN English, the part I heard, "It sucked" : )
hb~

[reply]

9/04/08

clioandme

Those who thought she rocked might be interested in the facts that got wrong: www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=94290392

If you're supporting her for her social conservatism, these facts won't change your mind, but if you think she was telling the truth about everything she said, well, that's another story.

[reply]

9/04/08

harleyblues

Oh I gotta post this cartoon brb
hb~

[reply]

9/04/08

harleyblues

img.slate.com/media/84/080904_ed.gif

[reply]

9/04/08

clioandme

Yep, we can look forward to some good cartooning and other satire in the coming weeks—until she loses.

9/04/08

Ratdog

You bet. The best part of what she has done is put mainstream Media on notice we finally realize there is no such thing as a unbiased journalist anymore. Every one of them try to force down our... brain, what they want people to accept.

Am I the only one who loved her line, "Put them on notice" they no longer stand between us and our government?

[reply]

9/04/08

tjefferson85

The only original part of her speech was the family part, other than that she should learn to craft her own speeches, the speech she recited did not, in my opinion, reflect her as a canidate or as a person.

[reply]

9/04/08

HaplessHermit

This is amazing. It's a joke right? The whole thing is laughable. Yeah just what we need, an isolated, bible thumping, anti-intellectual, extreme pro lifer (even for rape and incest) self-righeous crackpot.

The first course of action she took when she bacame mayor of that little city, try to ban books at the public library. when she became busy with running for Gov and didn't have time to persue book burning, she held off until she secured office...then she had the librarian fired. Very telling of what we're dealing with here,

[reply]

9/05/08

80sMom

Is Sarah Palin The New Dan Quayle?

Read my blog, watch the video, and decide for yourself!

One thing's for sure, she does make it all a bit more interesting...

[reply]

9/06/08

LLMLive

Makes voting Republican when you're a Libertarian easier! She seems to think like I do!

[reply]

9/06/08

katarokkar

Palin talked shit. That's all. She didn't say what's she's going to do once she's in office. As far as I'm concerned, the manager of the local Walmart has more 'leadership' experience than her.

[reply]

9/06/08

LLMLive

Sarah did say what she would do. She said she would say the pledge of aligance and not be embarrased by it which distances her from Obama and his wife by light years.
9/06/08

Wisco

Sarah did say what she would do. She said she would say the pledge of aligance and not be embarrased by it which distances her from Obama and his wife by light years.

That's all it takes? Just say the proper ritual and that's all you need to know?

I can only ask one question; what the hell is wrong with you?
9/06/08

katarokkar

what the hell is the pledge of 'aligance'?

So when the economy goes down the tubes, she's going to say the pledge of allegiance and everything will be alright? When we go to war with Iran she's going to recite the pledge of allegiance and peace doves will fly out of her ass?

As for your pledge of 'aligance.' It does not matter whether they say it or not. It's their actions that speak louder than words. Take that and your yellow magnet ribbon and shove it.

9/06/08

maboulette

Gov. Sarah Palin was elected “Miss Congeniality” during her pageant days!! This is a joke right – come on – tell me – it’s really Sandra Bullock punking us!! All of the "Miss Congeniality" movies have been showing during the Olympic week and during the conventions.

You can’t fool me – it’s a joke - next week they will announce that there were two pageants, “Miss Congeniality I and II”.

[reply]

9/06/08

LLMLive

Is it a sin to be pretty? More over - is it her high school antics that bother you? Maybe you are the one person in the history of the world who didn't ever do anything that you wish would 'just go away'. The media doesn't want to talk about her leadership so they focus on her distant past. I wish winning a contest was the worst thing I ever did.

[reply]

9/06/08

HaplessHermit

So I guess all you Palin supporters are for repealing Roe v. Wade? Well that's one of her goals. You like the idea of banning library books? Ok, another one of her interests.

This is the same woman who said "The fires of hell would seem like an iceberg compared to my hatred of the government." Imagine if Obama said that publically.

This woman talks about wasteful spending and even said "I told them no on that bridge to nowhere." but she fails to mention that she was for it as long it was only federal money involved. Which is no surprise as Alaska is the fattest pork state in the union.

Here's what I really think without the sensitive ears of BC

www.haplesshermit.typepad.com/homepage

[reply]

9/06/08

AmmoBob

hey hermit crab,

Your repeat of the left wing talking points only reflect your ignorance of the real issues. Instead of dropping a link to your crab shack, maybe you could point to some legitimate site that has a fact you would like to present.
9/06/08

kristilinauer

Bob, I think we have another case of "don't confuse me with the facts." LOL
9/07/08

clioandme

What specific parts of the HaplessHermit's comments were contrary to fact? The right-wing "our values are the only values" base of the Republican party does not accept Roe v. Wade and wants to get certain kinds of judges on the court, which is now pretty much weighted in their favor.

And Palin's record on reform doesn't match the McCain-Palin campaign's rhetoric.

The only thing new to me is the "fires of hell" comment. I would need a source on that one.

Bob and Kristi, just saying it ain't so doesn't amount to an argument. Cite the facts you say are absent. And me? I've already dropped a link to a long list of verified positions and issues further up in this thread: www.blogcatalog.com/discuss/entry/palin-gave-a-great-speech-tonight-do-you-...
9/07/08

AmmoBob

mark

My comment was taken right out of the markstoneman political comment playbook...

I have also dropped legitimate links for both candidate's issues. The problem I have are links to someone's blog that just repeats the particular parties talking points. Hermit crab sounded just like an Obama ad.

I guess my main question to all of this is, Why is she being so aggressively attacked? There has been more BS, lies and half truths made about here in the past week, then just about any other candidate I can think of in recent history. Are you guys that scared of her that it is an "all or nothing" attack, regardless of the facts?

elections.foxnews.com/2008/09/05/top-7-myths-lies-and-untruths-about-sarah-...

www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/015/534rlysq.asp
9/07/08

clioandme

The press must scrutinize her relentlessly, because she has only been on the national scene for one week. The McCain-Palin campaign offers one version of her. It would be foolhardy for the press or anyone else to take the campaign at its word. That's why I researched and wrote a long blog post based on concrete issues in the press that have been verified. If not verified, then I used "alleged", which was for one item.

The other politicians have undergone scrutiny over a longer period of time, especially Biden and McCain, but also Obama all year and then some. So what you perceive as unfair is just a catch-up campaign. McCain-Palin realize this, and they also understand that there are gaps between their spin and the facts, which is why they've chosen to have Palin preemptively attack the press.

At the risk of repeating myself here, we're talking about someone who seeks the office that puts her a heartbeat away from the presidency. We know too little about her. It is the job of the media to scrutinize. The catch-up game means she will get the most scrutiny on front pages and leads on news programs, because they've already done that for the others. For the others, at this point, the questions are more about what their policies are.

McCain-Palin could speed up the process by granting interviews, but they're not. (1) She's not ready. (2) McCain-Palin are enjoying the attention they're getting anyway, even the negative stuff. Why not wait till it simmers down before having Palin grant interviews? Then they can spark new buzz—after she has learned a thing or two about national issues.
9/07/08

AmmoBob

mark,

ok, I agree, scrutiny on issues is one thing, but the BS attacks and lies are something completely different. I do think if she manages to get through all of this, and I think she will, she is going to be one hell of VP.
9/07/08

clioandme

Well, Bob, according to this biased article, she's up to handling the press: www.laprogressive.com/2008/09/05/alaskans-speak-in-a-frightened-whisper-pal.... And hey, she calls herself pit bull with lipstick. (This article raises interesting questions, though obviously some of the worst charges will require further reporting, difficult as that might be for outsiders in Alaska.)

Of course, that doesn't mean she's qualified to be the president.

By the way, there's a history between the media and Republican accusations. Here's a pretty funny resume that includes a few thoughts about the new media situation: "Target Practice: Media Bashing 101" www.nytimes.com/2008/09/07/weekinreview/07leibovich.html?ex=1378526400&en=4...
9/08/08

opinionstreams

@hapless - Mike Seitzman of HuffPost attributes your quote to the leader of the Alaskan Independence Party, a secessionist party that Palin's husband is or was a member of and that Sarah Palin apparently once said was doing great work. The leader's also reported as saying something like "don't bury me under that da*n flag", but both quotes need to be properly verified...

www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-seitzman/if-you-really-work-for-me_b_124465....

9/06/08

maboulette

It says something about her when the McCain campaign will not let her campaign on her own for another week, nor have a press conference any time in the near future.

[reply]

9/07/08

clioandme

So true. Here's a piece in Politico about that: www.politico.com/news/stories/0908/13208.html

9/06/08

kristilinauer

Is this REALLY what this election is going to come down to--who gives the better speech? That's pathetic.

Well, if that's the only criteria, then Obama definitely wins. But if he gets his way with his economic plan, he'll be the ruin of America. But hey, at least he'll be able to break the news to us with eloquent and flowery words, huh? That should make it less painful.

www.blogcatalog.com/discuss/entry/palin-thank-god-for-obama#comment_567680

[reply]

9/07/08

clioandme

Regarding economics: McCain is proposing the same trickle down stuff with tax cuts for the wealthiest of Americans that Bush was doing. The only change he's offering from Bush & co. is that he will fight corruption in Congress. Other than that his policies are the ones we've had for eight years. How well have those worked?

Obama's policies? You'd have to read a lot of text to get those, but you once said this summer that you prefer pictures: www.blogcatalog.com/discuss/entry/what-do-you-like-in-a-websiteblog#comment...
9/07/08

Wisco

But if he gets his way with his economic plan, he'll be the ruin of America.

Yeah, because the economy -- driven by the debacle of banking deregulation by Republicans -- is just so freakin' great right now. It'd really be a shame if Obama went and screwed it all up...
9/07/08

clioandme

By the way, Kristi, this thread was started by a Palin supporter. If you want to call that pathetic, well, maybe I can agree for once. Still, I figure the contents and tone of speeches are relevant to the process. Be nice if we had interviews too, but we don't, because the McCain-Palin campaign has got her under lock and key at the moment.
9/08/08

lot2learn

I am interested in peoples comments about her speech, it does not matter who I support, I am interested in the open debate. Without debate and discussion, all we are left with are the speeches

9/07/08

katarokkar

awesome.

www.comedycentral.com/videos/index.jhtml?videoId=184111

[reply]

9/07/08

maboulette

OK - our country is failing so I think we all should get along no matter who we support instead of snipping and being ugly to each other. Our country is dying, our problems are so massive we may never be able to fix all the damage done by the Bush administration and we can not solve these problems if we don't pull together. The economic policies of McCain and Obama are very close together so please stop the arguing. we owe trillions of dollars to China, millions are losing their homes and jobs, we are in a healthcare crisis with the worse infant mortality rate in the world. We are in an energy crisis, our borders are wide open. There are people - terrorists in this world who want to kill ALL of us in America - don't you get it. We are in very terrible times.

When we get right down to it - until a president is chosen and able to get into the Oval Office, neither candidate knows what they really need to do. They don't have all the information needed to make decisions yet - what they are presenting now is just what they think they would do with the facts they know now.

I am no longer posting on any of these boards because all of you seem to know so very much more about everything than someone like me. Right now there seems to be no kindness, compassion or empathy among any of you people to others and I just can't understand that.

[reply]

9/07/08

blogoffanddie

the Democratic Party is a lot like a box of chocolates; you’re never sure where the nuts are - whereas the Republican Party is a lot like a chocolate fudge sundae, they tend to put the biggest nuts right on top.

www.blogoffanddie.wordpress.com

I would never hit someone with a hockey stick, unless of course, we were playing hockey. Then I swing at anything that moves.

[reply]

9/08/08

HaplessHermit

I just have to say it, it's bad enough these people are what they are and do what they do. But then to just start making things up, things that are easily checked out. For example Palin proclaimed during her speech, "And as for wasteful govt. spending......I told them (about that bridge to nowhere) Thanks, but No Thanks!"

But it can easily be checked out
www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2008-08-31-palin-bridge_N.htm

The full story is Palin was for the unnecesarry bridge as long as the Fed govt. paid. She came out against it only after finding out a small percentage was to be paid by Alaska.

Alaska receives more $ per capita than any state while she was Gov. That makes her look a little like a hypocrite, no? And let's not forget about her history, she is no stranger to pork barrel excess.

As for my comment about her

As for her history about wanting certain books banned, if you paid attention to reporters who actually covered Alaska the past 10 years (yes there have been a couple that spoke up, saw interviews on DemocracyNow), you'd know she did attempt to do so and it is a fact that has been published that the librarian was in fact fired and Palin only let her back because public outcry was so great,

But really, what is it I'm making up? Do you think she would not like to overturn Roe v. Wade? She made her posiiton pretty clear on that.

Am I lying about her religious beliefs?

Mark you made some excellent points so I'm not going to go on and on.

So I'll just come out and say what I thought of her speech. It was full of lies and deception. It was also of no substance, like most convention speeches.

[reply]

9/08/08

PlantBuddy

She's a refreshing change alright. Just watch all the gals
rush out and get a new eyeglasses wardrobe, like hers. It's
just a matter of time.

[reply]

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Palin gave a great speech tonight. Do you agree ?

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Palin gave a great speech tonight. Do you agree ?

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Posted by lot2learn • 9/03/08 • Subscribe to this Discussion [RSS] • Report This Topic
Topics: pallin mccain