Discussions
Parallel Universes - Multiverse - String Theory
Posted by Dukepro25 • 12/03/08 • Subscribe to this Discussion [RSS] • Report This Topic
Topics: dimensions, multiverse, parallel, Universe
What do you think?
Are there Parallel Universes/Different Dimensions out there?
What do you think about the String theory?
Is it a stretch?
Multiverse - Fact or Fiction?
Make your case.
User Comments
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Sometimes I think people come up with ideas because they are afraid to say "I don't know." It's the same with religion, instead of realizing that we are not knowledgeable enough to know, or comprehend things, man invented GOD to answer those questions. Trying to understand concepts like parallel universes, or a multiverse, to us now, is like trying to explain atomic energy to a caveman.
We need to be able to accept "I don't know" as an answer, and use that lack of understanding as a motivator to learn more, and to better ourselves.-
Well, you can't accept "I don't know". If we accepted that, then it would be the dark ages all over again, because when you accept something then you come to terms with it.
Because we are constantly speculating, conjecturing, and reasoning as a scientific community we grow. Ideas are born and die, calculations are run, etc. It is not that we accept that we don't know, it's that we will never accept "I don't know" as a reasonable response and try to further our understanding of that which we cannot fathom.
Just my two cents though. -
What's known as "the Dark Ages" was a period of history when the church dictated what people believed. Saying "I don't know" was heresy. -
Well, my point was the stagnation of knowledge in the ability to accept something rather than question it. I should have clairified.
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What I was trying to say was that sometimes "no answer" IS an answer. We don't always have to have the solution. Science can accept "I don't know" and use that as a motivator to "find out". But when Science says "I don't know" religion says "God"
I refuse to bend to the reasoning that if mankind cannot figure something out, then it proves there is a GOD.
When someone says to me "How was the universe formed?" I can offer theories, but my true answer is "I don't know." Weak minded people cannot accept that. They need their comfort zone, therefore their answer is GOD created it.
GOD answers all the questions people are too afraid to accept as unanswered.
When lighting struck the first time and a cave person witnessed it, I'm sure he didn't think about electrical discharges. He thought something up there was punishing him/her or angry. People today are no different than that cave person. -
Oh, I getcha now
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Yes, there is a parallel universe. You can get there by riding a magic mushroom over the gumdrop rainbow. -
I doubt it.
But it's a fun idea,and I've read plenty of fantasy/science fiction with parallel universes -
I just saw that show too The Universe on the history channel. Makes me not be able to sleep at night. just too much to think about. I dont know about a multiverse, but why not. Its just that our own universe is just so big that we will never be able know what else is out there. I was reading this article about trying to build a modle of the cosmos... it willnever happen. -
I am too busy concentrating on what's in my closet -
Actually there was a special on that very topic last night.
History Channel, I believe.
The theories kind of make your brain hurt, or wish you were on heavy drugs, but other than that, I suppose it is posisble. Hmmm, I'll see if I can find a link to it....
www.history.com/shows.do?action=detail&episodeId=373152-
I have had no doubt of this being a multiverse. There are other places I encounter pretty regularly. No, I don't do recreational drugs, either.
The ideas from string theory are delightful. -
Yes, the third theory presented would actually provide a scientific explanation for paranormal events.
I think it hurts when I think about it, but i"m fascinated none the less.
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My biggest thought on ideas like this is... Well... Who cares. If there is or if there isn't the two things I know for sure are these. Either way I can't interact with it and either way it either already does or never will effect me in any way that I still can't do anything about.
I tend to try to spend more time thinking about things i might be ably to effect that effect me.-
Good point.
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I'm in a parallel universe where Cheeseburgers rule!-
Power to the fried chicken! We were here first
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Here's my unpopular but incredibly simple suggestion:
If you want to know about this stuff then start meditating. All the capabilities to exist within multiple realities are available to all Human Beings, they are just undeveloped in most people. If you meditate, you will start to open up your perceptions.-
People need to open their minds more.
There is more than just the physical world. But when you speak of this to some people, they just look at you like your crazy... aka closed-minded.
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I totally do think there are other dimensions to what we think reality is. I often wonder if humans are on the bottom rung! Because we seem so blind to natural occurrences, let alone supernatural occurrences.
I just read this sentence I just wrote, and I am not entirely sure it makes sense. Sigh! -
You make perfect sense to me Arcticulates - there's more to reality than we can perceive. Just because we can't perceive or don't fully understand something doesn't mean it's not real. If a person is deaf, does that mean sound is not real?
There's stuff I would loove to talk about on this forum, but I clam up because you can get attacked very easily around here.-
I understand your reticence. However, historically speaking, most visionaries were decried as heretics or lunatics before their ideas were taking root. Looking at it from that standpoint, you're in good company.
Keep your chin up and try not to take any insults to heart. They are often flung by narrow-minded people.
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My coworker was talking to me about these topics today. He said he watched the history channel last night and they were talking about it. I've read about the theories for some time, but currently I am still skeptical of these things mostly because I still don't understand them enough to be able to even make an estimate on how probable they are. I'll have to study up on them more first. Also, I am a bit skeptical that these things can be misrepresented and skewed quite often such as they did with QM in "What the bleep do we know." Sorry I can't offer more insight or opinion at this time.-
You know a couple of good reads that I'll recommend to anyone interested would be the two books by Hawking. The Universe In a Nutshell and the other one...the title escapes me.
I even bought the audio-cd of the The Universe In a Nutshell so I could make other people listen to it on long drives. -
I was just looking at that title at Barnes and Noble the other day! I skimmed through it a bit. Looks like a great interesting scientific read. I didn't get it there because I thought I could probably get it for less at amazon.com or the audio version at audible.com. It is on my wish list. I am considering the audio book, as that is when I have the most time, is when I am driving to work and back and I can listen to it in the car.
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Yeah. Work is a 30 min drive for me, so I tend to try and get audio lectures on CD.
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Brief history of time. Other great books are Michio Kaku's Beyond Einstein and Hyperspace.
I'm currently busy with the Road to Reality by Roger Penrose. I don't recommend it to anyone who doesn't have a maths background. I don't, so it's going slowly. First few chapters are a course in the mathematical concepts he uses later on.
The Michio Kaku books are better than Hawking's in my opinion.
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As far as I know, none of these theories has managed to come up with a single experiment that can check for its validity, meaning these theories should reside (at least for now) in the realm of philosophy, not physics.
p.s. "What the Bleep" movies were created by students of "Ramtha's School of Enlightenment". The science presented there is a joke.-
I can't remember which specific one, but one was already having one of it's own work on creating a "basement" universe which would expand outside of our own universe. I wanna say it's part the M String Theory, but I'm not sure.
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I don't know about the string theory but I do believe parallel universes may be possible. Let's wait for proof.
www.leblogdelamirabelle.net/ -
I'd like to get into one of those really kinky parallel universes....
I mean, if there are an infinite number of them, then anything you fantasize about is happening somewhere.... -
We all know how Wikipedia can oversimply things, right? So I went to Wikipedia to see how it defines "string theory." I read the whole article and closed the window thinking "I have no idea what ANY of that meant." So, I can't comment on string theory unless you are talking about those ugly little string paintings of boats and stuff, made by stretching coloured string between strategically placed nails on a painted board. Those are awful.
I get multiverse or parallel universes, at least in theory. Do I believe they exist? Well, I think this ranks right up there with believing in god(s), only this may be just infinitesimally more probable since real scientists are doing real science in an attempt to prove it, as opposed to the religious nutters who morbidly fear any attempt to prove the existence of their imaginary friend(s). -
Ha! just saw this on the History Channel the other night as well. Interesting program. Like most theories in development it raises more questions than answers - but I suppose that's the point.
If I understand correctly, "m-theory" (membrane theory) trumps "string theory" - or rather expands upon it in greater detail.
To me it seems logical that the possibility of an infinite # of universes would exist - but I'm certainly no qualified quantum physicist.
I'd certainly like to meet one of my extra-universal or extra-dimensional selves - preferrably one where I'm less gravitationally (read: horizontally) challenged the older I get. -
Noooo, we can only handle one of you at a time
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but if the laws of nature are different for my extra-dimensional/universal self, perhaps I'd be easier to handle? Perhaps I'd be the anti-Kevin - you know, into knitting, sewing, and table tennis.
Edit: of course, this means that in some dimension you're a devout neo-con and I"m a Haight-Ashbury neo-hippie/liberal. Perish the thought!!!
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Nobody even knows for sure what the "Universe" really is. =) -
If you are different in a parallel universe, then technically, you are not you in that universe, therefore it's not parallel, its quasi-parallel.
(Besides you may have a goatee)
What about right-angle universes that meet at the point when both universes end.-
Why is it I picture my "quasi-self" as a hunchback living in a French village?
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I liked the concept of "The One"
www.imdb.com/title/tt0267804/
(Jet Li, Jason Statham, Delroy Lindo)-
You know, I was just thinking about that PetLvr
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Me too, but It also occurred to me that in the movie, each one of the versions of him were killed. But they all didn't die. So would that mean that if one of them was accidentally killed by a car, or heart attack, would the other versions get stronger?
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Fiction.... -
Ok - Love the comments!
Anyone out there could easily say that this is all bull and that parallel universes and alternate dimensions don't exist.
Technically - They don’t! lol
From our perspective, here on the physical plane, all other planes of being are simply theory, just as lesser dimensional beings can not perceive a higher dimensional one.
Case & Point - A tiny bug like an ant, walks on the surface of a big balloon. That ant perceives that balloon to be a flat surface. Where as, someone observing that balloon from a further distance would know that that was not true.
The way the parallel universe is described to me is this...
It is often compared to the Observer Effect, where waves seem to act like particles by simply observing their presence.
As there are infinite combinations of realities, it is the act of perceiving them that solidifies them in to the current reality.
Thoughts?
Comments?
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And yes - I did watch the History Channel special. That's why I asked. lol
Very interesting.
As if I didn't have enough to think about! lol -
Hmmmm...physics! I think you should watch 'Fringe' on FOX, or watch a lot of NOVA on PBS.
Way over my head.-
dude that show is no better than the X-Files,
all of these things are possible, and have been proven mathematically, but not scientifically
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Mathematically proven...yes. It'll be a long time before anyone proves string theory scientifically. And i like 'Fringe'. I'm a huge fan of the X-Files.
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it is virtually impossible to say that they will ever prove it scientifically, because the maths is all in bits and pieces and until they can come up with a unified theorem that works or some experiment such as CERN then we will not know
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"it is virtually impossible to say that they will ever prove it scientifically, because the maths is all in bits and pieces and until they can come up with a unified theorem..."
Agreed
Just a piece of the puzzle at this point.
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I am not sure that is what string theory says???
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My Ph.D. thesis will be about Supersymetric particle candidates for dark matter in the universe: Gravitino, neutralino or axino. So i'm not far away from the topic here. But i think your discussion is about the proof of the existence of parallel universes which requires actually a philosophical point of view.
For now, physicists don't concern about the proof of existence. Years ago, Scientists made an assumption if there may be strings between the SU(4) group particles and they saw it is helpful to solve some of the standard model problems like mass mechanism. Somehow it is comes out with the string theory. And superstring.
Anyway there's a good video about imagining the 10th dimesion:
kuday-eng.bloggum.com/video/Imagining-the-10th-Dimension.html
But it still doesn't prove that there should be at least 10th dimensions in our universe.-
Very good
Love the video.
My head hurts. lol
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Plausible... but unproven.
For a purely fictional account of Philip Pullman's take on parallel worlds, read the trilogy "His Dark Materials" of which "The Golden Compass" is the first.-
I've seen it
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Did anyone bother to think... "Does it matter?" (No pun intended)
Look at all the damage we are doing to our own planet, not to mention the crap floating around in orbit. One of the space shuttles primary functions was satellite retrieval. But it turns out its cheaper to let the crap float out there than to bring it back.
Instead of trying to figure out if there is a parallel universe, maybe science should focus on more terrestrial issues.
So what if we figure out the big bang, string theory, parallel universes, dark matter, and prove GOD doesn't exist... you think the sheep will listen? No. So until we can better educate people, this is all for nothing.
Let's take those resources and focus on other areas that are necessary.
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for science, but at what cost?
Science keeps people living longer.. that puts a strain on the planet.
Why is it to some people taking the life of a "fetus" is playing GOD, yet making an infertile woman fertile isn't? Why is prolonging someones life NOT playing GOD? People are immensely hypocritical.
At what point are people who are kept alive by science and providing nothing back considered a strain on society?
I think the scientific community needs to rededicate and refocus its efforts in other areas.-
I disagree. It matters
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any forward movement in any field of science has profound effects on everything..
tell me, what is your profession?? -
There is some very interesting things going on in science.
They demoted Pluto not so long ago and ever since Goofy has been upset.
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I disagree too. Because you'r talking about Frankenstein Science which has been exaggrated by press and popular culture for years.
You know what! People think All physicists are just geeky weird men like in the sitcom "Big Bang Theory". They are not!
People should seriously analise what the real science is anymore.
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I could talk for hours on this but I'm just about to step into the world with those purple haired people so I'll have to drop back later.
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I think that the reality of the multi-verse does not exist - however quantum physics shows that nature allows for any choice to be made- even impossible choices- allowing for a complex algorithm that shows every choice for every person in every moment in any location- reality being the representation of the existence of that choice rather than the possibility-
Jason with strat looking thing
How can you come to that conclusion that it does not exist.
Let's use an example of a note. The human ear can only hear up to a certain point in the frequency range, but it is a known fact that there are many overtones. Just because we cannot hear them does not mean they do not exist. They are there but out of our hearing scope.
I think it's healthy to have an open mind to endless possibilities. Have you seen the movie 1 Giant Leap?
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@ acousticguitarist
ok that was probably badly worded
observation is the proof of existence ... this is pretty much the litmus test that everything must pass here in BC and for that matter the rest of humanity. we don't believe in what we cannot directly observe, thus the issue of so many not believing in God- (but that is another conversation)
the Feynman experiment (I am going by cited sources) shows that observation is really the only constant that decides the state. even quantum entanglement shows that once the particle is "observed" the original particle becomes non-existent somehow.
so when I say... reality I am relating to what we observe... and I believe that we will never observe another reality with our physical bodies- namely because of our limited ability to observe.
but on the other hand I do think that on a universal scale that quantum physics is the study of the "logic" that determines outcome and allows for paradox,impossibility, and all kinds of weird things.
thus as a reality all of our decisions are factored through that logic, and a plausible outcome is determined. this logic could be so great that it factors in every other decision in the world to determine the impact of each decision in relation to another.
this may be the reason that some small insignificant decisions may have minimal consequences for one while another may suffer unimaginable consequences from an identical choice just different circumstances.
from an existence standpoint every single possible choice must be calculated against all prior choices to calculate what the significance of the choice is and the outcome. if this is being done for every single person everywhere all the time the logic required to handle just the everyday living and breathing speaks to some level of existence! but again my mind tends towards all choices being calculated and only the choice that is made is represented in the reality that we observe.
if a multiverse existed it would mean that every possible choice for every possible person in every possible situation in every possible moment would exist at once creating a multi-verse that could not possibly be navigated or represented as most of the attempted representations of the realities would be fragmented and impossible- open ended weirdness that could not be considered observable realities by any stretch of the imagination
my question is ... how does complete chance even allow for one complete reality that is observable...and that is a shared experience over a considerable time? given that in any moment that reality could veer into utter chaos again just because every possible choice actually exists. and how could complete chaos organize since any moment in quantum physics is an eternity how could even a year of those organized moments hope to string together in an orderly fashion to form something that was observable by so many of us as a valid existence?
anyways... back to blogging I guess.
jasonthebaldguy.blogspot.com
cited source
www.upscale.utoronto.ca/GeneralInterest/Harrison/DoubleSlit/DoubleSlit.html-
Nice post. I had two responses, one which is a disagreement with an assertion of yours, and another which is an attempt to answer one of your questions as I see it.
You asserted in your post that you believe in the existence of parallel universes, but don't believe that we'll ever be able to observe one. I disagree. While the way to do such a thing certainly has very real theoretical and technological problems to overcome, I believe that mankind has historically demonstrated the ability to overcome such obstacles, even those things that were thought to be absolutely impossible (like flying and computers). Just because we don't see a way around the difficulties doesn't mean future generations won't be able to do so. They will be able to build upon the work of their predecessors.
In addition, I recently heard that a group of scientists announced that they have found empirical evidence for the quantum many worlds theory (I haven't verified this- if anyone else knows about it, please let me know). This implies that they have found some way to detect and/or measure the presence of parallel universes, which means that, in a way, alternate worlds have been "observed" already. If they can be observed, then how much harder is it to interact with them? Or travel there? Difficult, yes, but impossible, I'm not so sure about.
The second point I had was to answer the question you put forward, which I essentially took as, "If other universes are constantly hiving off from each other, then how is it that we find ourselves in a universe with so many other people in it?"
Well, when we talk about realities splitting into alternate universes, keep in mind that what applies to the universe applies to us as well. When you flip a coin, it comes up either heads or tails for you definitively, and whichever one you observe is your universe- the other one is an alternate universe. In that alternate universe is another you that observed the other one. Each time the universe branches off in that way, another you is created. Remember that not only you exist, but all the other possible "yous" as well, each in their own reality.
If I've misunderstood your question, please feel free to clarify. -
Thanks JasonMinusHair
A great response
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Conciousness seems to help to determine or create reality as in the Schrödinger's cat experement.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schr%C3%B6dinger\'s_cat
Do we collectively create our world every day? -
@ maglut
ahh but there is where the problems lies.. the coin flip is not so simple! there are all the possibilities that you do not consider... and quantum mechanics considers every possibility at once! ... right now all I am thinking of are insane possibilities such as the coin not leaving your hand, the coin going through your hand instead of you throwing it... all of these are possible. in-fact only some of the atoms could choose to behave and the other do whatever they wanted!... to me it seems that observance adds some significant value to the solidification of reality...
the problem is that you are not even considering all the partial realities that could exist.. where "ME" is only half there... and half somewhere else or my head is gone.. or I have 3 eyes or I am 400 years old ... the list goes on... of course it is completely insane - but I am really not exaggerating this.
I hope I am making sense...-
You make total sense to me.
Unfortunately, to everyone else you seem like a loon, but Quantum Mechanics is starting to prove these types of theories.
Very good
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The Seth material, is abundant with information regarding parallel universes and parallel selves. Seth refers to these as probable universes or probable realities, and probable selves. He maintains that for every choice we make, the choice we didn’t make was actualized by a probable (parallel) self in a probable (parallel) world. Our probable selves walk those roads not taken.
Also according to Seth, we frequently interact with our probable selves in the dream state, usually unaware that we do so:
The dream state, however, does operate as a rich web of communication between probable selves and probable existences.
As far as other planes of existence, if you have ever experienced having the spirit of loved one around you know they exist.-
Interesting concept
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@ dukepro...
ROFLMAO hah! a loon! that was really funny! ... so which one of you do i make perfect sense to -
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Which one of you?
Not sure I follow.
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... which reality!??? ... ah.. forget it ... I am in a rare mood tonight! its best to ignore me!
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lol
Got it!
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