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Pregnancy Loss and Public Grieving
Posted by augustdreamt • 8/06/08 • Subscribe to this Discussion [RSS] • Report This Topic
Topics: miscarriage, pregnancy loss, stillbirth
I discovered the following Times article the other day (query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F04E0D9103CF932A15757C0A9649C8B63&...) in which the author, who lived in Japan at the time, described her experience in searching for a temple to mourn her miscarried pregnancy. She describes the differences between Japanese culture, in which women and families have public places and methods of expressing their grief, and Western culture, in which miscarriage is often treated as a secret that women should keep to themselves. One of the ways she illustrates this is by mentioning the fact that we don't even have a word for a miscarried/aborted/stillborn fetus (unlike the Japanese); even our vocabulary fails to acknowledge pregnancy loss.
I agree with the author on many points, especially since I have experienced this first hand. My miscarriage experience, which I have chosen to share for the sake of spreading awareness, can be found here: www.howtobeapregnantlady.com/2008/08/this-is-my-miscarriage.html
What do you think? Should women and their families keep their losses to themselves? If so, why? And if not, what do you think can be done to encourage more public understanding about pregnancy loss and acceptance of those who have survived it?
In case you didn't realize just how common it is, 1 out of 4 women that discover they are pregnant will miscarry through no fault of their own.
User Comments
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I'm sorry about your loss. Grieving is different for everyone, but I can definitely see the benefit of sharing this with those close to you. Kind of sweeping it all under the rug is not the best way to deal with it, in my opinion.
As for getting the public at large to understand, I think talking about it, like this woman did is a great way. It happens to so many people that I think more people understand than we realize. It's just that most people don't talk about this stuff.-
The impression that mostly I've gotten (not from here, but over the past six months) is that people (not necessarily the ones grieving) don't WANT to talk about it or hear about it because they don't understand it. It makes them uncomfortable, so they awkwardly try to avoid it by pretending that the loss - and sometimes the pregnancy itself - just never happened.
It's a bit of a cycle. It they won't talk about it, they won't understand. And if they don't understand, they'll continue to abstain from talking about it.
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I don't see why people should have to pretend and not go through a grieving process. The grieving process is different for everyone and depending on the cultural backgrounds the rituals that comfort differ. Unfortunately some people seem to have this judgmental attitude about how others should and shouldn't grieve, and how long, but so what. There are many ways one can honor a loss publicly such as plant a tree, a plaque, jewellry etc. I think people should just have to do what feels comfortable and right for them.-
There is definitely a lot of judgment involved, and it seems to be more common than I imagined. I think part of the problem is that people don't seem to always realize that they ARE being judgmental sometimes.
I've had a pro-choicer insist to me that it is impossible for women to bond with an embryo, and I've been lectured by a pro-lifer about how I am a mother (which I am NOT, since I miscarried) and thus should be pro-life by default. The first insisted that I had no reason to grieve, and the second decided that it was appropriate to define my relationship to my pregnancy FOR me. Figuring out the relationship I had with my baby was part of my grieving process, and it was stomped all over by people who with their own agendas who wanted to judge my miscarriage experience in the way that most closely supported their views. -
I don't think being pro-choice has much to do with it as much as unfortunately you came across people who have no empathy's for what YOU might be feeling. You felt a terrible loss and I feel it very disrespectful for others to criticize it as if YOUR feelings have no validity. We grieve for many things in this life, for lost dreams, a lost pet, a lost life, a lost love, a lost lifestyle, loss of health.
I think my response to others is to tell them it is not for them to dictate how others grieve for losses in their life. I really don't think you need to defend that with ANYBODY. At such a fragile time it is best NOT to engage with those who are judgmental about grief and seek those who can respect it no matter what the cause of grief was (in your case a loss of a child).
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Perhaps it is because our culture devalues life in the womb by calling it a fetus instead of a baby?-
I don't understand how the term "fetus" devalues anything. It's the proper term for its developmental stage. Do you feel the same way about "infant," "pre-pubescent," "adolescent," or "adult"?
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August, if our society fully acknowledges that a BABY dies during stillbirth, miscarriage and/or abortion, we would undoubtedly see more grace/acceptance for the LOSS OF LIFE.
I don't call a baby in the womb a fetus. I call it a baby.
Perhaps it eases one's conscience, to call an unwanted baby a fetus. I don't know.
If we encourage grieving for a miscarriage, why should we not expect the same for an aborted baby? Indeed, the result is exactly the same; the baby in the womb ceases to exist. One baby in the womb dies naturally (miscarriage/stillbirth), and another baby dies at the hands of the mother (abortion), for she allowed it. -
It's not anywhere near that simple. Many people in our society treat women who have not successfully carried a pregnancy to term as defective in some way, no matter the circumstances. Refusing the scientific terminology isn't going to change that.
My baby also happened to be an embryo. That was its developmental stage when it died. What's wrong with acknowledging that?
You didn't answer my question about the other developmental terminologies. Do you feel they devalue life as well, and if not, why not? What makes those words so special or "blastocyst/zygote/embryo/fetus" so offensive? -
Leave it to you global girl to attempt to hijack this into a debate on abortion. Nice.
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By no means am I offended by the terms "blastocyst/zygote/embryo/fetus" or other term for a baby. All these terms mean BABY to me.
Life in the womb is as beautiful as life out of the womb. -
You edited to add quite a bit to your post while I was replying.
By and large, we as a society DON'T encourage grieving after a miscarriage. Couples are told things like, "You can always have another one, you've got time, you're still young." They're told to shrug off their grief and "just try again," even by their doctors. Their pregnancies are simply treated as replaceable, renewable resources.
If someone feels the need to grieve their abortion, I don't see why there's anything wrong with that. And if they don't, I don't see anything wrong with that either. You either grieve or you don't. You can't force yourself to grieve if there was no relationship to grieve in the first place.
But seriously, I have no idea why you're bringing unwanted pregnancies and abortion into this discussion. I would rather this not turn into another rabid abortion thread in which no one listens to anyone else. This is another thing that I've noticed keeps people from learning about miscarriage; the discussion keeps getting co-opted by one side of the abortion debate or another. -
August said in original post: One of the ways she illustrates this is by mentioning the fact that we don't even have a word for a miscarried/aborted/stillborn fetus (unlike the Japanese); even our vocabulary fails to acknowledge pregnancy loss.
I responded.
Peace. -
Sadly many seem to bring their own agenda into it and I think this is part of the problem for this particular type of loss, yes? Why can't people just accept that YOU feel grief and say "I am sorry for you loss, would you like to talk about it?"
So here is my question to you. What ways have you found to address your grief and honor your loss? -
The problem with your original statement, GG, is you have not shown a correlation with the development of our language. Reproductive rights (including abortion) were not as expansive as they are now until after the second half of the twentieth century. And wasn't Roe v. Wade in 1973? But language for this kind of thing would be much older. Fetus, for example, dates back to the 16th century. And how old is baby? I suspect the Japanese terms in question also go back pretty far in time.
To make the comparison you do, one would also have to know about Japanese attitudes and laws on the debate you would like to have.
And I don't think anyone has said anything about stillbirths not being a tragedy that causes mourning in this country. The issue at hand is how and where the mourning occurs. -
I suffered a miscarriage at 5 months in the late 1960s, long before the pro-choice v anti-choice rhetoric came into being. Believe me, the word used to refer to the fetus has no bearing whatsoever on the lack of empathy extended to women who have suffered an unwelcome early termination of pregnancy.
The medical staff referred to it as a "fetus," my family, friends and I referred to it as "the baby," but that didn't stop them from telling me that I already had two toddlers, I didn't need another baby so soon. They thought of my lost pregnancy as a baby, but that didn't stop them from telling me that it was probably deformed and this was Nature's (or God's) way to correct the mistake, so I should be grateful. The hospital would not let me see it, wouldn't tell me the gender, wouldn't let me have it baptised or call in a priest for last rites (I was religious in those days), or see to a burial. I was just told to go home and get some rest, and I was young, so I could have more kids, so not to fret over this one.
So, that was the American response to a miscarriage before Roe v Wade and all the subsequent mud-slinging. Little different from today. -
jafabrit,
Even after seven months, I'm not sure that I've really addressed my grief. I've distracted myself from it, but that's about as close as it gets for me right now. It helps a little that my husband and I are trying to conceive again, although the fact that it hasn't happened yet (and the fear that it won't happen again) is stressful enough in its own right.
SweetViolet,
That's so upsetting to hear of your experience in the hospital. That's just so horrible.
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Having experience a full term stillbirth I know the grief that is experienced, I lost my child not my fetus...and yes the greiving process was hard, I still greive the loss of my child-
I am so sorry for your loss.
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Kat, your grief must've been unbearable.... of course you lost a child. Those who say a miscarriage is anything less, are fooling themselves.
Peace to you.
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I too am sorry for those who have expressed loss here. I think talking and writing are therapeutic for dealing with grief.-
thank you august dreamer, globla girl and robert for your kind statements
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I would just like to offer an quote from the book "Social Problems in a Global Perspective" by Ronald M. Glassman, William H. Swatos, Jr. and Barbara J. Denison.
"In modern Japan abortion is quite commonplace, and remorce, regret or psychological complications are rare. For those experiencing grief at the loss of an aborted (or miscarried, but wanted) fetus, there is the temple to the Amida, the Buddha of the Pure Land, Daikokuten, another of the seven gods of good fortune, and jizo. This temple is an active place there predominantly women, but sometime couples, seek help and protection for the dead fetus (Mizuho)."
I just find it intresting that there is a parently feeling towards smething our soceity disregards. -
Thanks for posting the link to the Times article, it was a really interesting and moving read.
I thought your post was wonderfully written.
In answer to your question, I think talking about it, like your post is a good way to for people to maybe understand the parents loss. As other folks have said, everyone is different but I think even those that wouldn't write or talk about it openly, would find comfort/understanding in reading other peoples experiences. -
My experience is that friends/family do share their loss and grief with those that are close to them - most likely the ones who they shared the fact they were pregnant with in the first place.
It is a touchy subject. I've also seen the bad situation that arises when someone who was commonly known to be with child has lost the child, not shared with others, and then is confronted by a well-meaning acquaintance that says "so when are you do again?" or "how's the pregnancy going?"
I'll add this. I've lived in fear each time my wife has become pregnant that something bad would happen, as she becomes very attached to the idea of having a new quite quickly. The first trimester is very stressful. The smallest stomach ache or bout of nasuea causes me (a professional worrier) to worry.-
As long as six months after my miscarriage, I had people instant messaging or emailing me asking about how the baby was doing. It sucked.
I was a total worrier when I was pregnant, and my husband was very laid back about it and took for granted that things would be fine. After the miscarriage, I pretty much did a 180. I did everything "perfectly" and followed all the rules (gave up sushi, soda, deli meats, etc), and I STILL miscarried. After all that, I figure what's the point of being so anal? So I'm a lot more laid back even now while my husband and I are trying to conceive, and I imagine I'll be more relaxed throughout the pregnancy.
My husband, on the other hand, has turned into the worrier. He's terrified that something will go wrong the next time that I'm pregnant. I guess we balance each other out that way.
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I commented above in one sideline of this discussion: www.blogcatalog.com/discuss/entry/pregnancy-loss-and-public-grieving#commen...
Here's my main respsone:
What country are you in? The US? I've noticed that grieving about death in general is not a very public thing these days. I wonder when that changed? One sees it in the way we whisk the deceased off to the mortuary, the way the bodies are prepped, and so on. And how much wearing of black occurs nowadays?
On the other hand, one does see public mourning for public tragedies. Here in Washington, DC, the quantity of flowers left in front of the British embassy for Princes Diana was staggering. One also sees outpourings of grief when children get murdered or killed due to recklessness of some kind. The memorials appear on the sidewalk where it happened. Pictures, stuffed animals and toys, notes, flowers—a public shrine of some kind.
This kind of thing also happens when someone shoots a bunch of people on a school or college campus. Last year after the shootings at Virginia Tech, students of George Mason University, in another part of the state, held a vigil. On the other hand, the emails I was getting from the administration focussed on making sure students were aware of what mental health services were available. Of course, mental health and mourning go hand-in-hand, but I wonder if there is significance in the way we pathologize some emotions, that is see them as something to be treated by health professionals.
Caveat emptor; I still need to read the NYT article. Thanks for the reference.
Also: maybe you have found a public way to grieve. You're here. So let me offer my condolences.-
I did grief counseling as part of my work at the crisis center in Texas and it amazed me how little people understood about the grieving process. I would get questions like shouldn't I stop being upset by now or shouldn't I have had closure by now. My job was to help them understand the various stages and that those stages are not set in stone. My understanding Mark is that in the usa many of the rituals (modes of grieving,funeral, ways of honoring the loss, etc) that immigrants brought with them have been lost and so many people don't have a framework to work with when they are confronted with a loss.
Kubler Ross wrote an excellent book called "on death and dying".
Here is an interview with her where she talks about the cultural differences:
www.healthy.net/scr/interview.asp?Id=205 -
Thanks for the reference.
My interest in this comes from a different place: studying the effects of war on society, one aspect of which is grieving and later commemoration. (That's one reason I made a big deal about Memorial Day here on BlogCatalog.) There has been a lot of literature coming out on it. Death and dying, even suicide, are all becoming objects of historical scholarship. Morbid, sure, but necessary. (I study other aspects of war, not this one, but I can hardly ignore it.) -
I don't think it's morbid at all. It only becomes morbid if it becomes an unhealthy fixation.
kubler talks about war in her interview. -
Good distinction.
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I remember being absolutely floored by one of my neighbours when she said she didn't understand why I was still upset over the loss of my uncle (he had died suddenly at age 46 a couple of months prior). She could see I was shocked. I asked her if she had ever lost anyone she loved dearly, which she had not. I told her to remember what she said to me when she is grieving for someone she loved. To remember there is no timetable for grief and no rules on how deeply one feels a loss. I suppose my agenda was to teach her to stop being ignorant about grief and I fell into my my crisis center training voice rather than my "you ignorant cow" voice.
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Apropos no timetable, I had a delayed response to the death of one grandmother I was very close to. The first weeks were an unemotional, "rational" response to what I knew about her health. Some weeks later it hit me. And a couple years later new things about what she means to me still pop into my head and heart.
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You know, my mom didn't shed a tear when my 97 year-old grandmother died, and they were best friends. A few months later it all hit and she sank into a very deep depression. Everyone is different and nobody should tell anyone how long they are allowed to grieve.
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I've had a hard time with this because I have so many children. I've been treated as if a loss shouldn't be significant to me because, "you have so many others".
I agree that people just don't know how to respond at all. It seems to be the same with any loss. I now hear from people about how lucky I am that my husband is still here as if that should negate any feelings of loss or sadness at what we dealt with (and still deal with). You know the, "Oh well, he's still here!" I even find myself doing it to him. I can honestly say that I just don't understand his pain or feelings of loss and so I try to get him to look at the bright side and the fact that he's still alive and doing well and the fact is, he has loss to deal with and his own mourning to do without having the obvious pointed out all the time.
Gee, does any of that make sense?-
yes, it makes sense
Grief is such a lonely place, even when two people are grieving over the same loved one or same loss. People feel so helpless and try and say things that might help or make them not to feel so helpless. -
Yes, Annie. Favorable family math has nothing to do with feelings about individual losses.
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wow, this is timely. I recently made a new friend at work, a lovely person who shared my taste in (cheesy 80s, George Michael) music, was funny and energetic and was just announcing her pregnancy.
She lost the baby a few days ago. I was crushed, deeply truly saddened. I also felt (for her sake) that something should be sent around at work to help avoid the inevitable awful return questions. When I suggested that, another friend recoiled - to her that kind of public announcement would be horrific.
But my answer to your question is ... it's up to those involved. If writing helps YOU cope, do it! And I too, am so sorry for your loss. Why is it up to the public to decide this? I think it might help someone(s).
I remember all the vitriol lashed at Katie Couric for doing interviews with the families of the Colubmine shooting. I remember thinking but that's exactly what I'd NEED to do if i were one of those people, to talk and talk and talk, publicly,yes, and privately, too. Ideally, none of us would ever have to go through these pains and hurts, but sadly, isn't that what often makes the best writing?-
I certainly can't speak for every woman, but if I were your friend, I would have appreciated a discreet announcement before I returned to work for that exact reason. In fact, after my miscarriage, I called and left one of my coworkers a message asking her to spread the news to everyone who had known I was pregnant, so that I wouldn't have to tell them (and repeat the hated phrase "I miscarried" that many more times) myself. I also announced the loss on my online social communities and then disappeared from a while so I wouldn't have to tell anyone live. Not only did it hurt to say, but I was afraid of the things that people would say to me in response. I knew that SOMEONE was going to say something that would upset me, and so I tried to make sure they didn't even have the chance.
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This loss I and my husband experienced was heart breaking and I still am not over it. Fourteen years ago 8-16-94 , after trying for over six years to become pregnant, we experienced the loss of out tiny unborn daughter. I still grieve this loss and in particular, whenever I go to say, Macy's and walk through their children's department, I sometimes feel as if I could choke. I yearn for the pretty dresses, and every now and then I even allow myself to handle the tiny clothes and let my fingers trace a gentle touch over baby furniture.
I was told that it would be easier for me to conceive again after this terrible ordeal, but alas, it was not to be. When you love your husband you want to make a new life with him and so I forever remain unfulfilled in not having children to fill our home. I see her as a blessing that I only got to hold dear for a short time. At least we were blessed by her short life. It's sad and you don't just get over it.-
I am so sorry for your loss, Theresa.
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I told my boss that when I returned to work, I didn't want to talk about it and to please tell everyone my wishes.
I am sorry for your loss and everyone else's loss.
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it is the most painful moment that we have at time experienced in our life. It is greatly painful to all those that have gone through this period that they are terribly troubled when they are remember this incident.
we can no say that solution to the pain the we endure is there because nothing had been identified as yet. Pain is not only to particular people but all that are going through it. -
It is by far the worst experience I've ever had, and I'm also a survivor of rape. It astounds me that everything is "kept quiet" here in the US rather than commemorated/honored. Not only was my pregnancy a secret (as I was/am single) but so too then was my miscarriage, which still required a procedure because my baby had died but wouldn't leave me. It was the worst day of my life. I did receive a tiny heart pendant as a commemorative token for the child I'd never hold and I look at it daily - it's been almost 2 years since I miscarried and it's still something that feels very raw and new. My family and a few friends knew what was happening but as for work and the rest of the world, I had to act as though all was normal.
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