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Recant "primitive"change to "culture" in my last discussion post..:)
Posted by wmanosh • 8/16/09 • Subscribe to this Discussion [RSS] • Report This Topic
Topics: "archaic" cultures, "tribal cultures"western" international law, cultural relativism, human rights abuse, human rights theory
To all those philosophical and eloquent responses I received and posted on my blog yesterday that got "hung up" on the word "primitive" yesterday, I decided that I may get the response I was hoping for if I changed just one word in my question...Lets not get hung up on symantics. I really want to know about all cultures regardles of where or whom ok? If they (a culture anywhere) are being cited for human rights abuse, are they(a culture anywhere) culturally relative to there society?If so what, if anything, should be done about it? If anything should be done who should do it? Maybe you would still respond? We will see....
Best regards,
William
Cultural Relativism or Human Rights
culturalrealtivism.blogspot.com/
User Comments
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I think all cultures, societies, etc. have their inequities, abuses, injustices. It's the responsibility of the people within those cultures to address those problems and seek the kind of changes they want. Outsiders have a right to their views and to express them and to encourage "reform" but should not interfere, politically or militarily, in the internal affairs of another culture.-
I agree 100% with what you have stated. Regardless of which culture one is referring to, history contains a very important lesson -- change must come from within.
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"If they (a culture anywhere) are being cited for human rights abuse, are they(a culture anywhere) culturally relative to there society?If so what, if anything, should be done about it? If anything should be done who should do it? Maybe you would still respond? We will see...."
This is why we have organizations like human rights international, amnesty international, united nations, and CEDAw (usa hasn't signed it) and global women's rights groups, human trafficking org, just to name a tiny few etc.
www.un.org/womenwatch/daw/cedaw/
I agree with nothingprofound.
Is there a specific issue you want to address, or a specific country?-
I am particularly concerned overall with every country as most all have been cited with human rights not just women. but of course women are included....
thanks for your response once again!!!!!!!!!
William -
I know but if you want to have a response that goes beyond the general it might help if you ask about a specific issue, say for example trafficking in women and children or child soldiers etc.
So why not give us an example of a country that has been cited and cited by who and what for.
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OK I already talked about the massive rapes of women in the DRC (The Congo) and the child soldiers there(well documented proof, i.e pictures, the works).....what is there about that?? This is culturally, or tribally relative...and..not committed by westerners, but by there own tribesmen correct? Q. What should be done about it and by whom>?
William-
I didn't see a discussion started by you exploring the rapes of women in the DRC, and what is being done! You may have on your blog, but not here? Are you wanting us to go to your blog only for further discussion?
Here is HBO special about it:
www.hbo.com/docs/programs/thegreatestsilence/index.html
and some solutions offered by analysts
www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=111782564
what do you mean mass rapes of women is not committed by westerners? You forgetting something?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_in_the_Bosnian_War -
"What should be done about it and by whom>?"
WEll since there is no accountability I don't know how anything can be done to thwart it. To date nobody has faced accountability for the mass rapes in Bosnia.
"Despite the fact that the conflict ended more than 13 years ago successive governments have consistently failed to bring those responsible to justice."
www.amnesty.org/en/for-media/press-releases/bosnia-and-herzegovina-no-justi...
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Each culture forms its own moral values. If the values of one offends the values of another, should there be interference by the culture offended? I assume this is the question.
If the offended culture has the power to interfere, the moral values my culture has given me says "yes".
I will start up close and personal. I hear a child from the apartment next door continually crying. I never see the child. The parents never bring the 5-year-old out to play with other children.
The parents are silent and non-communicative. When I do have an opportunity to speak to a parent, the parent says "all is fine" and add "people should mind there own business."
My question to myself is: Should I now do more? Call child welfare?
Make an anonymous 9-11 phone call?
My cultural moral values demand I do take action. I do interfere.
Expand this to a sub-culture within our culture. A religious group that believes in inter-family marriage. In child marriage. In harsh discipline. Should our normal culture interfere? If such sub-culture becomes another Jonestown, the question that becomes: "Why DIDN'T we interfere?" Shame on us.
Expand outwards. Not sub-cultures within our own given, but beyond our national borders where slave trade, child-sex trade, public stoning, home confinement of females, training 12-year-old boys to kill on orders - now should we interfere? Impose our power to bring about change? Seek to impose our own values?
My cultural value system says "yes". To whatever degree necessary and possible. Hopefully through greater alliances with those who share our views, through trade barriers, sanctions, human rights organizations to step up pressure. With violence as a last resort.
Violence? Is it acceptable?
Back to the child crying in the apartment next door. I make my phone call to Child Welfare. They try to communicate with the parents. Fail. Legal challenges are issued. Ignored. Is there a point at which direct interference - with force, if necessary - be imposed to enter the apartment, check the condition of the child?
Our debate goes on.
The child continues to cry. -
I do not rely on wikipedia as a reliable source Jafabrit....anyone can update it.did you know that?
thank you for your links though awesome....who could forget about Bosnia?what made you think someone did? scratching my head..I only brought up two topics off the top of my head.remember I said any country nation anywhere remember read above again......
nice reply Rivy!
William:)-
did you ignore the extensive reference section which lists the organizations that you do respect(united nations, human rights etc).
"who could forget about Bosnia?what made you think someone did? "
Because you said "This is culturally, or tribally relative...and..not committed by westerners, but by there own tribesmen correct?"
The same thing occurred in bosnia. Mass rape in any country has nothing to do with tribal culture and everything to do with politics and used as a weapon in war.
www.unicef.org/sowc96pk/sexviol.htm
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discovery channel-
jaf..........its my own personal pref not to use wiki as a source OK?
Nothing personal if you do...anyways. yes we all know that sexual violence and mass rape is used as a weapon in war not only in Bosnia..but it is also used by tribes people and not just in the west...is that incorrect? OK? Are you also going to refute me on that and send me a link to disprove this to?
William -
I use references for my source of info (some that you respect) so wiki is beside the point.
Rape is being used as a weapon in a war zone in the congo and isn't much different than what occurred in Bosnia.
you asked what can be done about mass rape? I pointed out that (as credible sources stated-amnesty international) currently there is no accountability. what is the world supposed to do about mass rapes in the congo if the world can't even bring Bosnian mass rapes to accountability after 13 years?
ps.if you want to help victims of rape in the congo here is a link with info
reversecowgirlblog.blogspot.com/2007/11/congo-rape-epidemic-and-what-you-ca...
and to support the efforts to make rapists accountable support amnesty international
www.amnestyusa.org/document.php?id=ENGUSA20090721002
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oh my lord,I promise I'll come back to read the op
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This is really not a topic for a forum. I think before you discuss DR Congo you need to actually know about Congo, where the majority of rape is is committed by armed militia, or one of several rebel groups, this is hardly a tribal issue, the place is in chaos, usually in a general state of anarchy there,(anarchy really doesn't work and this is one of the purest examples of it), greed, peer pressure - yeah believe it or not,demagogues and tyrannical and corrupt leaders, no real functioning government.
You can talk of this only separately, not in conjunction with all the rest of the humanitarian crisis in the world.
The issue isn't one great big philosophical question with one answer.
NYT has some decent reporting an opinions on rape in Congo, Mother Jones, Women for women international, international crisis group, Christian Science Monitor and there are books a plenty.
We exploit them, reap the benefits. Historically we placed a corrupt leader there during the cold war, a leader who left the country bankrupt, before that it was Portuguese slave traders and King Leopold of Belgium.
So much of the human rights abuses around the world are suffered because of the rest of the world, the part that is comfortable. To talk about these people in a philosophical way, as if they really don't exist, and are just a result of either their culture, or are not really important to their culture, is insulting.
I think you might want to spend some time actually reading the history of every place where human right abuse exists. If you really are interested that is what you would do.-
I suspect William is looking for an ethnic component to why the rapes are occurring in the Congo.
"NYT has some decent reporting an opinions on rape in Congo, Mother Jones, Women for women international, international crisis group, Christian Science Monitor and there are books a plenty."
I agree cooper, there is a plethora of information out there that is addressing this issue. So there really isn't much to debate or offer other than links (which anyone can find).
See you all in another thread.
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I am glad to here from you finally Cooper and again from you Jaf. Nice of you to put in your two cents worth.Really.....What I am interested in is opinion! Of course history is ever much important as the present and just as important though is the future cause you cant change history Cooper, But, you can change the future! With and through an understanding of history, and analysis of the present. That's where philosophy comes along with social and political science. I hope you agree on that much anyways. Thanks for the rhetoric and the kind discourse!
William -
Sorry, analyzing what is going on in any given situation has very little to do with our personal philosophy, and more to do with our foreign policy. History plays a part, but in the long run, in a forum such as this, it is useless to discuss something that requires in depth study, concentration, and analytics - both political and economic.
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Hey all!.here is a link to anyone that actually does like to get involved in international human rights.......check it out feel free.
www.amnestyusa.org/take-action-online/page.do?id=1031043
best regards
William -
For goodness sake most people who are interested in human rights are more than aware of amnesty, human rights dot org, international rescue committee, International Crisis Group, IRIN - Relif Web -Enough Project, and of the various think tanks dealing with humanitarianism, United Nations has various sites dealing with but not limited to including child soldiers, women, conflict resolution, poverty. There are literally thousands of places some more substantive than others. Maybe you should get some working knowledge and then start a discussion.
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hey cooper,
next time I wont be so nice to share a link to AI with you OK?
Who needs your insults..don't post here if your going to insult my knowledge of the topic apparently you have no clue or haven't bothered to ask//////?? So why post such a comment.you have some sorta chip on your shoulder cooper?
William -
furthermore where the is your discussion about anything whatsoever I have not seen any?
Like I said........exclude yourself from my discussion now please..t/y
William-
No BC member "owns" a thread and is in a position to ask others to vacate it. I could be wrong but this is your second thread on the same topic, and it appears to me that you have a preconceived notion, and in both threads you have been seeking "yes" men and "yes" women to back you up. Well, good luck with that.
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timethief;.......for you I say this......."whatever"
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