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RELIGION AND SEXUALITY; Christians and Homosexuals
Posted by halvoropsal • 11/25/08 • Subscribe to this Discussion [RSS] • Report This Topic
Topics: gay, homosexuality, sexuality
Being that both religion and sexuality are ingrained parts of the the human experience, virtually innate in nature, will there ever be reconciliation of the two? In other words, will Christianity accept the Homosexual as a valid lifestyle without pretense?
User Comments
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a few small issues that really need sorting, to understand a little of this the complexiity go to
healingtreesformen.wordpress.com -
Er, religion is not an ingrained part of the human experience. Give it a few hundred years and religion will be all but phased out.-
i'm inclined to agree... it is definitely more of a phase than sexuality. -
Hear hear, Kobra! -
i agree
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I think it's unlikely that the Church will ever not frown upon it, the real change needs to within society as a whole. If Obama can be a a black president and women have rights why do members of Gay society still have to protest their rights as well it seems lucrative. -
What is sad is that the GLBT community cannot fully participate in their faith because of their sexuality. I do believe that growing up in any faith leaves a residual effect for anyone that turns from it. You are never really free...thus, making the religious experience quite steadfast. Sexuality is steadfast. Can they coexist? Im not sure.
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from my window in the TCs... the glbt community and religion get along quite well. But mpls is a very out and progressive place. I sense it will definitely evolve to the point of being totally okay for most/all religions... but I think it will take a while. It's interesting to see people hold onto both. Others around me get rid of the religion all together, which i think is the more healthy of the two options... but live and let live... not my business.
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I think that the majority of religions will cave in under pressure and conform to what is politically correct.
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I do not care if religion accepts me. You have no idea of the complete paradigm shift available just by reaching this one place within your self.
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... because *I* accept me.
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First you'd need to define what a real Christian is.
What I think is a real Christian would love and accept the diversity of creation.
A false Christian would not have a grand enough view of the world to see the beauty of all persons and would bring up some bizarre supposedly religious reason for not accepting; but really that would just be a reflection of their limited thought. -
The one thing that bothers me about the door knocking in your face Christians is that they believe they have been given some station or right by God to judge you. Isn't there something in the bible about none being righteous and something about not being a judge of man.
A number of homosexual men I know are Christian and if they can find happiness and acceptance in God. I say more power to them. Homosexuality has been around as long as we have been around. I agree with everyone else, I see religion being phased out before I see sexuality being phased out.-
actually...no there isn't.
(Matthew 7)
1 “Judge not, that you be not judged. 2 For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you.
Jesus did not say "stop telling people their sinning." Because truth of the matter was in fact that EVERYONE one has sinned. So on one note you are right,
"all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,"(Romans 3:23)
However, Christ was saying (in context) "stop telling people their sinning, without examining your own sins ALSO" People have the notion that there is one sin greater than the other when ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS is sin. None is greater than the other. It's only when it gets in the hand of man that the rationalization occurs.However one pointing the finger at the other doesn't justify the one doing the accusing. Nor does it annull the person being in fact, a sinner, and have ALREADY been judged according to the Gospel.
John 12:48
48There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; that very word which I spoke will condemn him at the last day.
All of humanity will be judged. Christians and Non-Christians. But Christian judgement will be based off of their faithfulness whereas the sinner will be judged because they are well....sinners.
1 Corinthians 11:31-33 (New International Version)
31But if we judged ourselves, we would not come under judgment. 32When we are judged by the Lord, we are being disciplined so that we will not be condemned with the world.
What's funny is that even if "Christians" embraced Homosexuals (which has been done in some churches) there will be yet another group (crowned as sinners according to the Bible) trying to fight the same cause. "Where there is no law, lawlessness will pervade.".
But as for the Christian who does judges yet does the same thing his/her fate is found in ROMANS 2.
Being a Christian is not based off of confession alone. Confessing to believe in Christ and living a life of unrighteousnes, puts you nowhere closer go God than when you didn't confess.
It is by grace through faith (in God's Word) alone that people are saved (from the AUTHENTIC Christian pov). But that only begs the question...what does God's Word say about homosexuality? (You seemed to have missed this one
1 Cor. 6:9-10, "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God."
It's kosher.
TRUTH IN LOVE
JusT -
@JusThoughtZ
1 Cor. 6:9-10
Paul never met Jesus and you are quoting from Paul's letter to the church at Corinth.
Paul resided there for eighteen months probably in 51 or 52 AD (see Acts 18:1-18) and then visited Corinth second time (see 2 Corinthians 1:15), and remained for three months, according to Acts 20:3.
Horace is quoted as saying: "non licet omnibus adire Corinthum", which translates as "Not everyone is able to go to Corinth", due to the expensive living standards that prevailed in the city.
This wealthy and very cosmopolitan city was renowned for the temple prostitutes both male and female of Aphrodite, the goddess of love, who served the wealthy merchants and the powerful officials living in or traveling in and out of the city. The most famous of them, Lais, was said to have extraordinary abilities and charged tremendous fees for her favours.
Given the historical context, it seems to me Paul was most likely NOT referring to faithful same sex couples who want to marry and spend their lives together. It seems that he is referring to temple prostitution, just as the writer of the passages in Leviticus who was also referring to temple prostitution.
May a I please ask a personal favor? For ease of reading, please do not post large blocks of scripture. The citations are enough. Many members like myself learned them by rote and can quote them by heart from multiple translations. Other members can use Google to find them. Tx -
Agreed Time! Lets keep it to the point...justhoughtz could have just used the last paragraph and left it at that. We are also not looking to be converted here. Lets keep it on the congruence between faith and sexuality.
Peace my friends.
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The phase out of religion is not the correct response. Religion has continually adapted to meet the emotional needs of society. The arguments about homosexuals mirror the arguments about women priests three decades ago (and still continuing in some circles). Religion simply needs to be recognized for what it is -- a mythology to help understand existence. If the religion is failing, new mythologies will arise to take their place.
The more a religion is inclusive of the entire human experience, the more truth it has. Religious believers should evaluate their beliefs in the light of what they explain. If your belief can only explain homosexuality in terms of sin and ostracization, then the likelihood is your belief is wrong.-
[The more a religion is inclusive of the entire human experience, the more truth it has.]
But then how do we control people and make them hate the same people we hate?
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Im agree Tiresias01....but a frightening 10 percent of Americans are fundamentalists. Another untold percent are Mormon. They are a very powerful block getting onto school boards to push their agenda and pushing legislation such as Prop 8. There are few moderate views by these folks, improving society in their view and strongly wanting a theocracy.
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Just in answer to your comment about how many Mormons, according to the CIA, the following is the order of religious preferences in the United States:
* Christian: (78.5%)
* Protestant (51.3%)
* Roman Catholic (23.9%)
* Mormon (1.7%)
* other Christian (1.6%)
* unaffiliated (12.1%)
* none (4%)
* other or unspecified (2.5%)
* Jewish (1.7%)
* Buddhist (0.7%)
* Muslim (0.6%) -
Thanks for the data...I wonder what the percents are in terms of voting power...with the understanding that not just the vote counts, but the lobby dollars to promote an agenda...such as what happened in Prop 8 and the mormon dollars to back the Yes vote....
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You forgot about the Pope.
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FWIW the multi-millions of dollars raised for the California vote yes on proposition 8 campaign did not come only from religious people in that state and they did not only come from "christian" churches.
For example: Technically speaking the LDS Church as an institution made no direct monetary contributions to the "Yes on 8" campaign. All monetary donations came from individual members, who decided if and how much they would contribute by direct donation to the protectmarraige site.
en.fairmormon.org/Latter-day_Saints_and_California_Proposition_8/Questions_...
en.fairmormon.org/Latter-day_Saints_aren%27t_Christians
According to SFGate.com, network exit poll show that they Catholics accounted for 30 percent of the California electorate on November 4 and that 64 percent of them voted "yes" on proposition 8. www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/11/10/EDGQ140F5R.DTL
Below is a link to a list of all the churches that supported Prop 8 and made donations through the protectmarriage webiste. The list was on Craig's list but has since been removed. It was also on the support Prop 8 website. It too has been removed. Read the full list at this site mojoey.blogspot.com/2008/11/list-of-churches-supporting-prop-8.html -
Once again I'm experiencing a glitch that prevents me from editing my comment above and correcting the typo and grammar. This is despite the fact the time counter states that I have 453 seconds remaining to edit. I still can't edit the comment I made above so I'm going to report this to thegoodknife.
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No perfection in spelling and grammar here.... so, if the data removes the mormon church from the formula.... and I do doubt it to be entirely true.. lets just say that information came out that they actually did? then what? Isnt it wrong for any church to promote parties or measures... and the mormon church certainly does.... what happens from the pulpit is not what is necisarily written in the dogma of the church. I have heard and seen a lot of particin politics out of the mormon church..but it is not the only one. Nobody can deny these facts!.
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I could be wrong, but it's my understanding from the reading I have done that in order for the religious organizations that have tax free status to avoid the problem they would have had with the IRS, if the religious organizations had funded the campaign directly in their various organizations' names, the members of the religious organizations, chose to finance this campaign by having individuals, and associated organizations like the Knights of Columbus (the political arm of the Catholic Church), etc. make the donations to the protectmarriage campaign.
www.californiansagainsthate.com/dishonorRoll.html
Disclaimer: This list is based on the data made publicly available by the California Secretary of State’s office. Californians Against Hate, Inc. is not responsible for the accuracy or validity of the names, contribution amounts and descriptions on this Dishonor Roll. Please direct any inquiries or corrections to the California Secretary of State. Californians Against Hate, Inc. will periodically update this list based on additional data made available by the California Secretary of State. It is possible for multiple persons to share the same name. -
While members of the Mormon church gave about 1/2 the money for the yes on H8 campaign and they gave more in goods and services for the passage, their actual voting power in California was less than 10% of the vote, maybe closer to 5%.
But, the real problem with Prop H8 passing was that the LGBT community did a poor job of explaining the facts and showing the public that we are HUMAN BEINGS, not the crazed queers with AN AGENDA.
The money raised by the other side was used more effectively because they tapped into the mood of fear that has gripped this country for the last 7 years.
Interestingly, our demonstrations, interviews and general reaction has actually changed the opinion of some who voted for H8, they said they didn't understand how it was taking away so many of the rights granted to gay families by the CA Supreme Court. They just wanted to "protect the family"....
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Most days I have no use for either. -
Free From Religion
There are several religion-related groups in blogcatalog but there were none dedicated to the opposite. This group is for bloggers who believe that the world would be a better place without religion. www.blogcatalog.com/group/free-from-religion-
Thanks! I wish I had an answer myself. Being Catholic and gay leaves me a bit torn. I know that I cant be a part of the religious faith to the degree of my heterosexual friends at mass. I do not believe that homosexuality is a sin and deserves legitimate recognition.
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Look, if you want to be intimate with someone, how could that be a sin? What is important is the respecting of boundaries of people. I like women, that's not a sin, although if you talk to people with a few brain cells missing they could turn that into a problem.
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You said: "Being that both religion and sexuality are ingrained parts of the the human experience, virtually innate in nature..."
I disagree. Sexuality is inborn; religion is a choice. There are those who simply follow along the religion they were taught; there are those who change their religion; there are those who eschew religion entirely. It is a choice and therefore not innate.
If you believe that your god made you gay, then your church is wrong. If the church will not flex on its position then you have two choices: change your religious affiliation or accept that you have chosen to remain loyal to a religion that is not loyal to you, a conflict that is unlikely to be resolved until and unless you either 1) withdraw your loyalty or 2) change your sexual orientation.
Will Christians accept homosexuality? Real Christians already do. The rest are not real Christians, they just think they are. -
okay....on the surface I agree. But I do not believe that walking away from your beliefs are so easy. Religion is often embedded in culture. Both are very difficult to deny...both shape our behavior. I do not see it as simple as a choice. If you grow up Jewish...you dont just stop being Jewish with a simple choice.
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i think it's reasonable to walk away from religion, God won't leave us at all. It's important to separate culture and religion, although they are intertwined they are not the same. Religion is a study of God, a person may not necessarily contact God, they can do things that seem Godly like prayers or meditation. But God is in the world around us, in all things. At my healingtrees blog, there are perfect examples of why not to be in the church. And I'm not saying leave the church but there comes a point when we grow bigger than the box that we are caught in. Many people try and reshape the box, the box is for those that aren't ready to expand. I think a person can have a much deeper experience of Jesus outside the church. All the church gave me was sexual abuse and control. But people feel safe in that environment. God is BIG, real big and also minuscule, real small.
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I no longer believe that there ever has been an issue with God, or the Bible about believing and being homosexual. The issues over homosexuality and religion are only fairly recent. You have to go past the King James translation to the original Hebrew and Greek words in the so called "anti-gay" passages. Genesis 19 describes the destruction of Sodom, which has been attributed to the homosexuality of its citizens; the men may have wanted to rape the "male" angels. Actually, the text at this point is ambiguous; the original Hebrew word sometimes referred to sexual activity although it usually meant "to know" in the same sense as "I know my neighbor". But a reading of Genesis and Ezekiel, in context, reveals that inhospitably, pride, idol worship, and lack of consideration for the poor were their prime sins. Here are the actual LISTED sins of Sodom and Gomorrah in the Old Testament: Deuteronomy 29:22- 28 -- serving false gods; Deuteronomy 32:15-19, 21-25 and 31-33 -- apathy, sacrifice to demons, idolatry and gluttony; Isaiah 1:2-4, 9-10, 20 and 23-31 -- forsaking God, showing contempt to God; Isaiah 3:8-11, 15 -- oppression, discrimination. If homosexuality was involved, (it isn't one listed) it was not consensual sexual activity; it was rape. So one can safely conclude that Sodom was destroyed because of the sins of its citizens which included their habit of raping visitors. The Bible actually only condemns homosexual activity within contexts of prostitution, pederasty, and otherwise cultist and abusive practices.
We also need to look at who translated the original Greek and Hebrew texts during the time of King James and what the political climate was. King James was either homosexual or bi-sexual and as he was also the king, no one could publicly scold or mock him with out fear of reprisal. His relationship as a teenager with fellow teenager Esme Stuart, Earl of Lennox was criticized by Scottish Church leaders, who were part of a conspiracy to keep the young King and the young French courtier apart, as the relationship was improper to say the least. Lennox, facing threats of death, was forced to leave Scotland. King James, by the way, is buried in the Henry VII chapel in Westminster Abbey, with one of his favorite male suitors on his right, and another on his left.
It is believed by a number of Bible scholars that when he asked the priests to translate the Bible so that his subjects could read it, they used certain ambiguous texts to shame him for his homosexual activities, something they could not have done openly. And Jesus has nothing to say about homosexuality at all. Only Paul has anything to say about it. The fundamentalists emphasize Romans 1:26-27 to show that homosexuality is wrong. But in verse 23 the problem is identified as being pagan worship, they were committing indecent acts with animals and people. They were worshiping the creature rather than the creator (Romans 1:25). The common practice at this time had to do with the raw sex act, not homosexuality, and the passage is about married men and women having orgies together with animals to worship their idols.
You know Jesus often said "you have heard it said..." referring to the Rabbi's and Religious Teachers interpretations of what we call "the Old Testament, followed by, "but I say unto you... I would like to present one such passage:
(Matt. 5:43-47) “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that?” -
I was reading your Blog, is it true what you are writing about Gov Palin?
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actually no...I myself am bringing up this issue as I am about to publish a book on the matter and wanted to see where people were at with the issue.
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no.
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1. Christianity (biblical Christianity anyways) is not based on "works"; its based on faith in the Person of Jesus Christ as the only True God... thus,
2. Jesus Christ declares the willful continual act of homosexual perversion (along with every other act that violates His explicit commands) an act of disobedience worthy of death.
3. The real issue then, is whether or not God Himself accepting homosexuality as a lifestyle without prejudice. The answer will always be "No." or else, He would not be the Holy and Righteous God that He is!-
sounds like you have defined Holy and Righteous God for yourself. I hope you dont eat pork and are willing to kill your fist son (you know the story); if you are a literalist then you must be willing to do it all..but im sure you have a biblical explanation for what you are and are not rigid about.
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Quote:
"2. Jesus Christ declares the willful continual act of homosexual perversion (along with every other act that violates His explicit commands) an act of disobedience worthy of death."
I've read the Holy Bible from Genesis to Revelation 4 times until now on my 5th and haven't seen this declaration by Jesus. If in New Testament, what book? Please advise.
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I'm new to this site, and this forum caught my attention. With regards to the question:
"In other words, will Christianity accept the Homosexual as a valid lifestyle without pretense?"
If we talk about Christianity as a religion, I don't think there will be an acceptance if they will use old writings from Genesis that God created man and woman as a precedent. Other religions aside from Christianity abhor GLBT reality as well.
BUT if we consider Christianity as an Individual, one who really experience Christ by practicing his teachings by "not judging anyone...", then there will be an understanding to exist. Living based on clear conscience is perfectly different from living based on doctrines dictated by the church.
Prejudices only create hate, and not only causing divisions among people but within family as well.-
best post yet edgecrosser!!!!
Peace -
True, don't judge someone by one's own standards (thats in Matthew 7) but you should take note of the rest of the words written there.
A person will be known for what he really is, it is through his works. Even if someone claims to be Christian yet indulge in unnatural and immoral sex willfully then he's not a Christian at all. he is a hypocrite.
""Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!"
True, we shouldn't judge by our own but people are judged by the Word of God. -
Edgecrosser, Christ did in fact judge people and did so fairly harshly at times. It is a common misconception, by way of reading out of context, that Christ said we are not to judge. -
@ rfburnhertz
"Edgecrosser, Christ did in fact judge people and did so fairly harshly at times. It is a common misconception, by way of reading out of context, that Christ said we are not to judge."
If its about homosexuality, what passage in New Testament, please advise. -
rfburnhertz, If you were to read WHO Jesus passed judgment on, it was only the Pharisees and Sadducees, the "religious" leaders of his day. He also said that it would be better for the Samaritan's in the day of judgment than the "religious" who would cross the street to avoid becoming unclean from a sick person on the road.
Hmmmmmmm, kinda like, you know, how the "religious" said "let the queers die from AIDS"
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no, homosexuality was outright condemned in the bible same as adultery (even in thought).
Just as most of sexually active people (outside marriage known as fornication and adultery if married) would dismiss the Bible's call to only be joined with a woman (if you're a man), so is with the case of homosexuality,bisexuality, bestiality and the likes.
It will be plain hypocrisy if anyone endorsed to join the two.
Islam and homosexuality though would sync, afterall the Muslim heaven has boys to be used for intercourse by men. Very gross for straight people.
the-daily-light.blogspot.com -
Sure, aberrant and cultic christian sects will and do accept homosexuality as non sinful lifestyle. In fact, there is a fairly large step in that direction at the moment.
The truth of the written Word will never change however. Man may say whatever he likes about homosexuality, it remains a sin no matter how man might consider it.-
Homosexuality based on the Bible: www.bible.org/page.php?page_id=1302#
In Old Testament: Leviticus 18:22 , Leviticus 20:13
New Testament: Romans 1:24-27, I Timothy 1:10 (NIV), Jude 1:7
Book of Leviticus was based on Moses - who existed before Christ
Books of Romans and Timothy from Paul - existed after Christ's cruxifixion, not an apostle
Book of Jude - existed in Christ times as a brother of James but like Paul, not an apostle.
Do we call ourselves Christians because we follow Christ's teachings? Or we follow what is written on the Bible even if they're not taught nor uttered by Christ himself?
If we Christians believe that Christ is the only true God, who else should we believe then? Nobody else.
What is a real Christian then? A Bible believer or a Christ believer?
Isn't it unfair to use the holy scriptures to discriminate and institute disgust amongst people?
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Edgecrosser,
I suggest reading the bible in context.
Cross referencing, etc...
I can't speak for others, but I do not use the bible to 'discriminate and institute disgust'.
Homosexuality is sin, that is the fact.
By stating this as the fact it is, I am not promoting discrimination or disgust.
You may take it that way, but if so that is your problem. -
i posted this link www.bible.org/page.php?page_id=1302# because i was pertaining to that published article and not on you, get a grip.
and since u said homesexuality is a sin, i just fervently hope u know what ur saying and ur perfectly sin-free.
if u could still give me some reference that homesexuality was mentioned during Christ period and He mentioned it Himself, please advise. I could still have missed reading it on my 4th time from the New Testament.
peace
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my thoughts were made pretty clearly here bradstinyworld.com/religion/christianity/queers-christ-hypocrisy-heresy/ -
Christianity will fade like any other religion. As far as whom people want to have sex with I think that will outlast any religion.-
I agree with you.
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It won't fade fast enough...
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the least thing it will fade. religion is nothing but institution, very distinct from the word Faith
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Did you know that the bible is the widest published piece of literature inspired or not of all time??
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It'll work itself out eventually. As homosexuals become more mainstream in society, religion adapts to culture - despite the misgivings of a few fundamentalists.-
I agree with you.
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Well, if christianity did not allow homosexuality as a valid lifestyle, they would allow priests to have a relationship with the opposite sex... -
Before I go mad--there are other religions in the world besides Christianity & before the Jews wandered into the Middle East, all the followers of the ancient dying/rising gods & goddesses [Dionysus, Osiris, Tammuz, Ishtar, etc. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life-death-rebirth_deity, scholar Joseph Campbell, Dr. Bart Ehrman, etc.] accepted homosexuality, though not in the modern-day sense as of course, we change. Remember, Alexander the Great's greatest love was his general Hephaestion though he also had others and married simply to have children as did his father. The religions of the Native Americans also accepted gays and believed them more spiritual since they combined both male and female principles in one; the French coined a word for them: the bedarch. They only became outcasts when Native Americans were forcibly converted to Christianity.
For those who want to quote from the Bible, please, put it in context linguistically, archaeologically, historically, and scientifically concerning the origins!
Organized religion, with its hierarchy, power, investment in staying the way it is to control people, enrich itself, and abuse power is a threat to every society, especially monotheistic fundametalist Christianity that is convinced it has the one and only answer and the right to force it on others.
Two final comments: 1. When Christian missionaries went to India trying to convert Hindus, the Hindus welcomed them, saying they were thrilled and were glad god and sent them a savior they could relate to and would of course embrace Jesus and add him to the list of avatars [god sent in a form we could be close to and derive comfort from] they worshipped. Then the Christians said, no you have to get rid of all your false gods for only Jesus is real, and the Hindus replied, thanks, but no thanks. Polytheists throughout history have been more tolerant and accepting of other people's versions/forms/views of god; monotheism demands that it and only it be accepted as right.
2. Spirituality is in all of us; organized religion is forced on us. Organized religion breeds herd mentality and right now, the radical right has enough money and power to impose their bigotry on others--claiming we were founded by Christians, forcing creationism into the schools, pushing their morality in the abstinence only sex non-education school programs, and so on. For gays that have a need for a church, find your allies among the liberal Christian churches that are fighting for you. While it may be hard to change the name of your church, changing your identity is impossible. One place to go: Unitarian Universalits; they have no creed or dogma as to what you must believe about god. They ask only that you covenant to work for human rights, liberty, justice, democracy, and dignity. Check out Truth Wins Out [TWO] for more information on the role the Mormon church played in proposition 8, and now the radical right smear job claiming gays are responsible for perpetrating violence against the Mormon church.-
Perfect
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So then...what do we all think when a parent rejects their child because of the child's sexuality; the religious parent rejects their child, disowning them because of their sexuality. Weigh in!
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[So then...what do we all think when a parent rejects their child because of the child's sexuality; the religious parent rejects their child, disowning them because of their sexuality. Weigh in!]
Anyone with a drop of compassion will feel outraged at the idea of a parent disowning their child for what their child does with consenting adults. -
I can speak personally that I would NEVER disown my child over any behavior. That would not mean that I could not disagree with their choices whatever area of life those might exist. Children are their own people and they have their own life to live and their own set of consequences to face in life just as I have had my own.
It has to be a valid posibility that you can completely disagree with a person's choices and still love them dearly. otherwise, we would all be limited to loving people who were exactly like us. -
it is usually the parents' fault. a dysfunctional father or mother paves the way for a child to express unnatural sexuality.
for other cases it is a response to sexual abuse itself. a way to cover up or negate the feeling of being abused is to consider the act as normal and amoral. -
[a dysfunctional father or mother paves the way for a child to express unnatural sexuality.]
Citation needed. What exactly is "unnatural" about homosexuality? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_animals_displaying_homosexual_behavior
[for other cases it is a response to sexual abuse itself. a way to cover up or negate the feeling of being abused is to consider the act as normal and amoral.]
Citation needed, again. I know many gay and lesbian people who have never been sexually abused. -
I would not disown my child.
My children grow up knowing my beliefs and my reasoning for the those things I believe, non the less I wold feel compelled to sit with them, tell them that I disagree with their lifestyle, and explain again as to why.
We would end the conversation with them knowing I disapprove and we would end with them knowing I love them. -
When a conservative parent disapproves his child's homosexuality, it ends there. The child will and always be homosexual, disapproval wont' change anything, it needs understanding..or else the child would prefer to run-away or live away from their parents so that he won't hurt their feelings. This is what I call DIVISION within family.
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sure, they might not be sexually abused but they had one of their parents being absent or dysfunctional through their early age that this paves way to a different worldview on sexuality despite their biological structure.
homosexuality is learned, through people and mass media.
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No
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I have seen lot of threads on this topic before. But I was keeping it away. But today let me shout!
I need anti homosexual spray. Homosexual should be culled.
Wow I feel great! LOL -
1 Corinthians 6:9-11
9 What! Do YOU not know that unrighteous persons will not inherit God’s kingdom? Do not be misled. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men kept for unnatural purposes, nor men who lie with men, 10 nor thieves, nor greedy persons, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit God’s kingdom. 11 And yet that is what some of YOU were. But YOU have been washed clean, but YOU have been sanctified, but YOU have been declared righteous in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ and with the spirit of our God. -
This thread got heated and nasty.
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i think this thread is getting a little bit out of control IMHO. It's not good to hate other people even if we disagree with them.
it's unfortunate that human nature takes us down this path when controversial subjects arise.-
woops wrong spot
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I will close down the thread in a couple of hours. It proves that the religious extremeism is out of control. Liberals want a world of heart felt acceptance and love. The fundamental religious want a world full of restriction and judgment. Christian fundamentalists is the countries most dangerous group and voting block!
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How exactly are YOU going to close the thread?
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Yeah, you busted us.
We hate all who do not bow down to our fundamental Christian worldview, we damn you all to hell.
Not only are you clearly ignorant of Christianity and Christians in general but you are given to fallacies without any actual searching out of facts on your part.
You inform yourself mostly through personal experience which is a very bad and in fact often dangerous way to take measure of the world you live in.
As for the Christian voting block, you need not worry.
It is a shrinking group. With in the next 30 to 50 years I've little doubt that you will see America fully living the liberal dream. -
Rfburn: He didn't attack Christians. He said "Christian fundamentalists." There's a difference.
[Not only are you clearly ignorant of Christianity and Christians in general but you are given to fallacies without any actual searching out of facts on your part.]
How about that?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamentalist_Christianity
[As for the Christian voting block, you need not worry.
It is a shrinking group. With in the next 30 to 50 years I've little doubt that you will see America fully living the liberal dream.]
Not the "Christian" voting block, but the Fundamentalist Christian voting block. Also, Liberalism and Christianity are not mutually exclusive.
Reading comprehension... you fail it. -
thanks rfburn for damning everyone to hell, that's pretty hilarious, you are joking and you?
the only ones I know of that will be going to hell will be those priests and brothers that raped me at 11 years old. Funny enough of the 5 Catholic schools I went to, two had pedophiles that have been dealt with, one school had pedophiles at the local church that the school used to send the boys to be altar boys to. I haven't started my investigations on the other two schools I went to. But I will report back at sometime.
Quite frankly, I have many Christian friends, most are tolerant and none have ever wished anyone a quick trip to Hades. I'm still laughing over that one.
They may have been Christians but they didn't know the fundamentals. -
@ rfburnhertz
get a life.
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