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RELIGION OR NO RELIGION?
Posted by thefiveelements • 2/20/09 • Subscribe to this Discussion [RSS] • Report This Topic
Topics: Belief, death, life, philosophy, religion, Spirituality, the five elements, truths
Are Humans better with religion or would they be better off without religion? What do you think?
User Comments
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Religion gives people a sense of hope and security, as well as a set of values and mores. It can also be abused, but so can anything. I'm going with +1 religion.-
I have not noticed that religious people are any more caring or ethical than non-religious. -
I don't have religion but I have all those things and given most the prison population are 'religious' that's clearly nonsense. Morals have zip to do with religion. -
@Agit8r & CIP: Define "religious." If you define it as believing yourself to be religious, then you are right. If you define it as actually following a GOOD religion, admitting your own weakness, and taking up the Cross or whatever equivalent, then you are WRONG WRONG WRONG. I know from the transformation of my life and others that pursuing Christ, while it will not make you perfect, will make you much better then you were. In particular, I myself have grown in forbearance, selflessness, focus, and bravery since I became a child of light (I know, I can still have a temper, but it used to be much much worse.) I have seen the slovenly grow diligent, and the heartless grow warm. But note, these were all people who willed themselves STERNLY, FULL-HEARTEDLY, AND SERIOUSLY to following my particular religion, though I also know of at least one person who was made better by Buddhism (he gained humillity and a kinder heart) and I personally believe that Judaism has much good in it as well. -
@JJ HAHAHA!! always there to take up "the cause" aye??
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Without Religion ...how could we have wars?-
We'd soon find something else to fight each other about, the human race is not a peaceful one. -
no we wouldn't....wanna fight about it??
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Bring it on biatch!
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Yeah! Scottmillerd you wanna fight?? †☻ -
When people are driven to try to conquer more land or resources the human conscience will often find this offensive. Religion provides for an alternate conscience that can be useful in overcoming these sentiments.
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Well, let's see, money, paranoia, racism, yep, quite a list.
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Hehe.
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Religion is fine when practiced in a personal manner. It only jumps the shark once you apply any kind of principles that give an "us vs. them" mentality.
Really, if you want to be aggresively competitive and judgemental against other religions besides yours, that competitive spirit is going to undermine the moral values that come with the religion.-
i agree!
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Neither, in countries with strong religious beliefs and those with non (communist countries for example) human nature was the same. People will use any justification for their agenda no matter what belief system they have or don't have. -
There should be absolutely no religion in government, education, or my front door.-
I definitely agree with the first two. As for the third, live with it.
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I agree with ccRicers. Religion gives the individual a warm glow, knowing that there is a set of moral principles and practices to guide the individual through a tricky world. I love my religion, largely.
But religion has to remain totally private, within the family. The idea of knowing what religion the nation's prime minister practises, for example, fills me with dread.
I also agree with voodooKobra. The separation of Church and State is a core principle of modern parliamentary democracies. Mind you, keeping religios from knocking on your front door may be trickier -
Better with religion. If no religion, everybody would like to make one for their own self, and create one more, one more and one more until peoples get confused. Why? Because no matter how arrogant the peoples are, they are always happy to be guided/ feel have been guided. -
Better with religion. Without it we will still have wars over land, oil. water, space etc.
Yes, religion has caused uncounted human sacrifices, brutal penances, wars, exploitation of people and lots of other atrocities.
But on a far grander scale, religion has motivated people to care for one another, to live in peace, to share, to give relief, and -- yes -- to turn the other cheek. Religion is without a doubt the greatest civilizing influence ever discovered.
Of course we should eliminate all the zealots, the crusaders who feel theirs is the only true religion, the fanatics who feel they are becoming more holy and securing their place in Heaven by destroying as many people as possible, if they have a different religion. Religion has misguided many people, to the great detrmient of us all. But do not overlook that religion has also guided a much larger number of people, to do right and love mercy and grant compassion.-
[Religion is without a doubt the greatest civilizing influence ever discovered.]
I guess anthropology doesn't count?
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either.. it depends on the person.. but for me, true religion is one that makes you a better, if not, the best person.. -
None, you can believe in God or a higher being without it. I've know an awful lot of people who have used religion to make it ok to abuse children. I am much better off without it. -
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They are better with Both. Its just that we humans are finding tough to live a beautiful life. -
Perhaps there is some value in introducing these discussions to spiritual, philosophical and other religious groups at BC. Just in case that is the case here's the main link to all the religious discussion groups www.blogcatalog.com/groups/tag/religion
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Thank you so mush Timethief, I surely will. Thanks again
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Philosophy of religion... B
Blindly obeying a religion is the same as the "non religion"-
Then there are those who despite their claims to skepticism, they are deeply wedded to a particular set of core beliefs. So wedded that, at this point, I don't think any "evidence" would sway them. This is evidenced, among other things, by their strong polarization of religious thought altogether. The real problem I think is fundamentalism ... religious or non religious.
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Religions of the world have failed Humanity in many ways, started from their contradictory & confusing doctrines that many believe to be words of a divine God.
Here is a link about the Darkness that Religions have inflicted towards Humanity:
thefiveelementsalltruthsrevealed.blogspot.com/2009/01/dakness-within-religi... -
Religion or no religion as long as you have faith in GOD..life will be great... -
The essence of religion is love.
Dogma and theology are not religion. All religious organizations and dogmas were created by humans. The real religion is its compassion, service and cooperation to others. Which is the basic law of the universe.-
Not a basic law of the universe, but rather an important and intrinsic property of human society. And you don't need a religion to realize this. Just a little bit of decency, empathy, or selflessness. Any of those three will do the trick.
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Well, I know what you mean. I have no religion. We don't need any organized religion to realize this.
From a spiritual view, I mentioned that a basic law of the universe is love. And showing this important and intrinsic property is a way of being the real religion.
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Human beings will be better when they make themselves better. When they behave better. The presence or absence of religion has nothing to do with it.-
Love your answer! I think its absolutely true -
I agree with nothingprofound. Morality and ethics are not religious ideas (although they tend to be hijacked by religious groups). Rational thinking, not superstitious thinking, is the only way to a better society. -
I actually disagree. Part of human weakness is not really understanding what "better" is with regards to morality, and another part is the way that, no matter what we fix, we seem to create a new problem. We make people less violent, they become lazy. We make people less greedy, they become irresponsible. We make people more orderly, they become judgemental. It seems to me that the only things which make people better are love, hope, and bravery, which is part of what religion inspires in people, when practiced out of one's own volition, as supposed to indoctrination when young.
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jj, that's about the biggest pile of illogical, unrelated, self-serving steer manure I've read in a long, long time! -
That's nice.
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SweetViolet, what about that was self-serving? What about that was unrelated? What about that was illogical? Honestly, that is about the most arrogant, illogical, hypocritical SLIME I have read in a long long time!
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@jj: ...We make people less violent, they become lazy. We make people less greedy, they become irresponsible. We make people more orderly, they become judgemental. It seems to me that the only things which make people better are love, hope, and bravery, which is part of what religion inspires in people, when practiced out of one's own volition, as supposed to indoctrination when young.
Ending violence does not cause laziness: one is not necessarily related to the other and to imply a cause-and-effect relationship between them is illogical.
How do you make people less greedy? When/where has that happened on a large enough scale to have a societal impact? And how, if you succeed in making an entire social group less greedy, does that make them irresponsible? Greed and responsibility are not related, despite your attempt to make them bedfellows, and to imply that they are is illogical.
And how is orderliness related to judgmentalism? You are clearly implying that chaos and being non-judgmentalism are somehow inextricably linked so that if you remedy the former, you eliminate the latter. That's wholly illogical, as one has no relationship to the other.
And here is the self serving part: I will bet cash money that you identify yourself as a person who took on his present religion of his own volition, turning his back on the religion he was taught as a child, therefore being inspired to "love, hope, and bravery," making you somehow superior to those of us who don't believe the same way you do, whether we ascribe to a different set of beliefs or have shared your beliefs since childhood.
Now, you may call me arrogant, since many people cannot tell the difference between arrogance and confidence in one's knowledge, but you cannot call me illogical since my logic is substantially more correct than that which you posted (eg, ending violence does not lead to laziness), and there is nothing hypocritical in what I said.
Care to try again?-
to add to sweetviolet.. @jj, you are basically saying that making Chicken Tikka Masala less spicy causes cows to give less milk -
SweetViolet, when people become less violent they become less violent because you take steam out of their blood. It is not the making of them less violent but the removal of what makes them violent. Greed is connected to responsibillity through the assesment of material things and the hardening of hearts connected to "being an adult." Orderliness stems from lawfulness.
As for "self-serving," what are you describing is arrogance and elitism, not greed. Both vices, but not the same vice. And it doesn't have to be a different religion, it just has to be of your own volition. -
You don't use the same kind of logic, SweetViolet, when looking at human nature as you do when looking at fixing a car or biochemistry.
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Yes you do. Otherwise your conclusions are flawed by assumption.
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@vK: To explain with logic that extensive human nature would require far more space then is acceptable on the limited bandwith of this site.
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So? Does the difficulty of a task make it not worth doing if the rewards are not diminished?
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Actually is does mean that the rewards are diminished because if you must write 50 1000-page volumes to communicate a simple point, NO ONE will read it.
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Then turn it into a book, publish it, and share the summaries with the laymen. Or are you afraid your views on human nature are so flawed you have to hide the flaws behind semantics?
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What is the critiria for being better or worse?
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Religions were created to control human's minds. If people would think themselves, they would be much happier.-
I disagree. The Bible is so fundamentally antigovernment and anti earthly authority that Constantine had to use the Catholic Church to convince people to stop reading it under the excuse of "the cardinals will read it for you, and your priest is your connection to God" (sheer lunacy.) This said, religion will, as this example also illustrates, provide power for anyone who can harness it, which is why religious people must always be on the lookout for government interference and tyranny and SIMULTANEOUSLY distrustful and respectful of their church elders. There is a vital balance between harmony and freedom that must always be kept and requires much care and attention to do so. I, for one, unlike other Christians do not support unification but rather the further splitting of the church as just punishment for a denomination falling out of line.
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The Catholic Church was the one who put the Bible together. o_O
Council of Trent. -
@vK: Yes, but that was before Constantine pulled some arms. Not really the same catholic church after he's appointed people and made mandates on them.
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I do not mind the Bible. It is a book while religion is the given way to think and to live.
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Yeah, okay, my philosophy is vote with your feet. In my mind, my religion is doing the best I can to follow Christ and let the Spirit grow in my life, pastors are simply there to fulfill a purpose.
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I cannot answer for people as a whole, but I just did a post on how I am much better without religion and why as part of my Me vs Me series. To sum it up, in my case religion was the main contributor for self loathing. Once I cut it out and was able to live without such ridiculous and hypocrital standards, my life improved-
Once I cut it out and was able to live without such ridiculous and hypocritical standards, my life improved
Mine did too.
I gave up my attachments to dogma, doctrine, rites, rituals and religious practices long ago. I learned how to meditate. I became aware of all the negative core values rooted in fear, guilt, shame and self rejection that I had been brainwashed into embracing as a child. I jettisoned them, replaced them healthy core values became aware of my egocentricity and began to practice mindfulness. Consequently, my life improved.
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As humans, we need religion to join or to react against. It provides a structure for explaining the abstract.-
Etymologically, the word comes from religere - what unites (men). As for explaining the abstract, I fail to see your point. The abstract is One from the Multiple (eg man or tree - in a generic sense). You do not need religion either to explain what is neither concrete nor abstract - ie Being (as being) - that is the realm of Metaphysics/First philosophy. Ultimately, first philosophy leads to the discovery fo a First Being - of which human reason can say nothing.
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Without. People die because of religion. Fact.-
haha.. not long before someone comes mentioning Hitler, Stalin and making silly claims that Atheism drove them to crimes.
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dsriharsha,
Christianity didn't drive the Crusaders to their crimes either, neither did it drive the folks who bombed planned parenthood. That was the result of philosophies piled on top of Chrisitianity. Nowhere in the bible does it say "thou shalt punish aborters" or "thou shalt commit war crimes." In the case of each, it was Papal Supremacy (Crusaders), and in the case of the other it was social conservatism. I am a christian and agree wtih neither of these. Likewise, Stalin was commiting crimes out of a philosophy (Marxism) piled on top of atheism. -
Maybe it doesn't say that in the bible. It also doesn't say in the original bible that gay people are bad. Yet you still hate them.
Also it doesn't matter if it's in the bible. If you perform an act in the name of god then religion drove you to do so, which is bad. Islam for instance is a good example of this. They kill hundreds of people in the name of their god because their personal interpretation of their holy books leads them to assume it's okay to kill people.
Seriously, why is it okay to become a mentally ill serial killer when you're religious, but not when you are just another serial killer? That religious discrimination. I demand equal rights for atheist serial killers! -
@Tiger: I don't hate gay people, and there are suggestions that the handful of passages (and they are but a handful) that would condemn homosexuality may actually be mistranslations of the word for "pedophile" or an act common among the greeks where two married men would lie together to disgrace their wives. So is it a sin? Not sure, but it's not my problem, I'm not your nanny, and if you follow the Holy Spirit he will not lead you astray and will make sure that you CAN rise to meet what God asks of you. He does NOT want you to fail.
As for doing something in the name of God, people hear it, and some (unfortunately) will believe it, and no matter what it is, if you put value in anything, it serves as a weapon for those who seek to hate and destroy.
And as for being "okay," far from it, I hate those who kill in the name of my God far more then those who do not, for those who do not are merely killers, while those who do are blasphemers and a disgrace to my Lord. -
religion is not just limited to Christianity.. you know
Al Qaeda.. Mujahideen.. Holocaust.. Ram Janmabhoomi.. Witch hunts.. Crusades.. Inquisition all in the name of religion..
also.. since you keep mentioning the Bible, ever read these?
Exodus :
22:20 He that sacrificeth unto any god, save unto the LORD only, he shall be utterly destroyed.
23:24 Thou shalt not bow down to their gods, nor serve them, nor do after their works: but thou shalt utterly overthrow them, and quite break down their images. -
@dsriharsha:
Important distinction - the Torah is also a law book. Because the Isrealis were a tribal society where law enforcement was limited, and to boot insisted on "innocent until shown guilty" to a point, they had to compensate for a low certainty of punishment with an extreme severity. So, why not have freedom of religion? Well, in those days the idols that people would worship were usually connected to foreign governments, and especially in the case of Moloch, worshipping them could then be utilized by those foreign nations to drag people back for execution. And as you read further in the old testament, to the prohets first, and then finally over to the new testament, you see a gradual progression away from that kind of draconian violent punishment as society advances. You can't look at it with modern eyes, dsriharsha.
I do not consider the worship of an idol like Moloch or a politically or monetarilly motivated cult to be a religion.
And as for the muslims, well, that too is placed on top of their religion, and in particular they have to ignore these passages from their own holy book:
"In a holy war, you must never kill the innocent, or a surrendering soldier, or a soldier who is unarmed, or destroy buildings."
"Respect the christians and Jews, for their books also come from God."
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@ TigerXtrm,
Please atleast check the statistics starting from 2001 to see the number of muslims killed in this period. If war on terror is not a religious war then we should realize that non religious do more to destroy world peace as compared to religious people. A true religious would never kill an innocent for he knows in addition to facing worldly laws he would have to go to hell for commiting such crimes. Non religious people do not fear hell and therefore they become more dangerous for humanity. For example I think they were non religious who were behind the atomic attacks on Japan.-
[A true religious would never kill an innocent]
Then all you have to do is convince the religious that the innocent are committing some crime or sin and you have a slaughter on your hands. It's easy! -
@vK: I've seen lots of sin today and so far have not killed anybody.
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@ Voodokobra, A true religious person always speaks the truth so why should he convince his fellows that an innocent is a criminal. Do you remember Javed Iqbal a non religious person, 1st he sexually abused than killed hundred innocent children. What do you say ? Is it a little sin or "some crime" and What punishment do you suggest for such people ?
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I guess religion is important to everyone; it helps to anchor us to our morals and values......
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Oh it's more important then that, it provides an anchor for our heart and mind.
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Every society known to man/Woman has had some type of religion.-
Actually no the Huns didn't.
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Yes, mankind needs religion. Once you all learn to worship me, we'd live in peace for eternity. -
Humans are better off with religion because if it wasn't for religion lots of lost people will be wondering what the meaning of life is instead of living their life to the very full. -
Google Has all the answers...
Google be the new religion. -
all religions have the basic principles almost same...
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